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View Full Version : Boat Slip -Dockominium Sylvan Lake Marina


Zip-in-Z
06-12-2013, 09:23 PM
For only $74K (less than cost) you can dock your 20ft boat or toy in the new Sylvan Marina, they don't tell you what the dock-o-fee's would be, my guess in the order of $100.00 month. Counted approx 20 boats in their, they have room for 180+, wonder why?

For those who may be interested in a daily launch the posted rate is $40.00, but there's no parking on their property, so hopefully you can find something on the street.

Link to Kijiji ad ..... the pic's are pretty good, have a look.

http://alberta.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAdLargeImage?AdId=492572926&Keyword=sylvan%20lake


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Zip-Z


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EZM
06-13-2013, 08:41 AM
Lake Tahoe prices - I would bet it stays empty for a bit longer at those prices.

It takes a while to catch suckers.

Kokanee9
06-13-2013, 08:50 AM
Lake Tahoe prices - I would bet it stays empty for a bit longer at those prices.

It takes a while to catch suckers.


Not a nice thing to say, but I hope it does stay empty. The way that whole thing came about and was approved still rubs me the wrong way whenever I think about it.

diamonddave
06-13-2013, 12:40 PM
So is lake front property different from river front? You obviouslly must be able to own the lakebed and the water if you can make money off of it... That's some crazy sheep poop right there....

schmedlap
06-13-2013, 07:20 PM
Generally, indeed, you cannot "own" the ground under the lake or the water on top of it. There are exceptions in some cases of property titled and deeded before Alberta became a Province. However, there are 2 possibilities here (which one would have to research - probably by expressing interest and digging into the resulting paperwork?) that are more likely.
One is that the "owners" (really just lessees/licensees) have leased or licensed the use of the specific area of the lake from the Province - usually on some long term basis, and with strict conditions as to use, environmental issues, extent of "improvements", etc. That's what I suspect this one is. That would mean that what they are selling is some term (hopefully, at that price, a long one?) lease/license for a slip - really, then a sublease/sublicence of the right to moor one's "yachett" at a particular spot, on whatever terms are in the agreement and to also pay a periodic "rent" for whatever services, etc. that comes with. This would be similar to such setups in Vancouver (False Creek) and various resorts, coastal or lakes and reservoirs, across the country. The risk, of course, is that the lessee/licensee does not, at some point, abide by the terms (failure to pay or otherwise) whereupon the "subs" are also punted, or their is a non-renewal of the term lease/licence, and good luck getting any recompense if that happens (I wouldn't touch it at all, but, then again, unless I win the lottery, and even then ...? it seems unlikely that I would ever have occasion to need or want to moor my "yacht" at Sylvan).
The other would be where the owners ("developers") have "created" the space and water as an offshoot of the existing lake, whereby it is private property just connected to the lake and not being a part of the legal or original lakebed. An example is "Sunset Harbour" at Pigeon. That "cove" is a hole dug on private land with connection by channel to the original lake, and under permits to do so. The surrounding bare land condo owners corporation, or a subsidiary corporation or offshoot of the developer, "own" the cove, and the cove and marina are a part (one "unit" or "common property") of the condominium plan. Same general concept as one "creating" a private pond/lake on their own property. As an owner of one of the residential units, or as an outside licensee, one gets a spot at the privately created and owned marina. Less "risky" in the sense that it is only if one's co-owners, as a group, "drop the ball" that the situation is at risk.
Being realistic, as the few large lakes in Southern/Central get more and more "civilized", and cater to the wealthy segment that can afford to own and maintain such things, this may at some point be a fair deal in context. But I really doubt that there is any realism to being able to sell this kind of thing at those prices for that number of units in the short term, and unless the "owners" have a lot of cash in reserve to carry it until it is sold out, and becomes operationally viable, in a financial context, or a very solid indemnity bond from a major insurer to back it up, I would be very leary indeed of putting that kind of $ up front - you may end up kissing it goodbye (?) in fairly short order. And one should find out if the lease/licence in question is heavily mortgaged to a lender who can foreclose all the subs' interests out of existence (in the absence of express non-interference agreements provided as part of the transaction) if the "owner" defaults on the loan.
There are a lot of potential legal surprises hiding in the weeds for the unwary purchaser of such "rights", and, in my experience at least, the developers (with no disrespect at all for such entrepreneurial optimism) are about as likely to fail as to succeed, and will inject more "snake oil" according to the level of disproval of their optimistic theories as it proceeds (?).

mooseknuckle
06-13-2013, 07:52 PM
So if I understand it right? With approx 20 boats someone has put approx 1.5 million in the bank?

fedfred
06-13-2013, 08:16 PM
Those boats are probably for show to get the suckers in.

schmedlap
06-13-2013, 08:23 PM
So if I understand it right? With approx 20 boats someone has put approx 1.5 million in the bank?
Since we don't have the contracts or legal setup, it would be unfair to just assume that. More likely ...? one has put the $1.5M towards the development financing (usually with such things, the financier gets the net proceeds until they are paid in full), or one has the $ in a legal trust account with contingencies of a certain volume of further sales, or other conditions to be met before it can be released. But, yah, it is possible - we need to have the factual context of the legal setup and contracts to assess that.
I have just come up with a scheme to store and "maintain" boats in my tiny city yard for such rewards .... given the state of my neighbour's unmowed hoarder junkyard, the bylaw guys should be distracted enough to ignore it ....?, and then I won't have to mow either, as every inch of grass will be subdued by the recumbent boats and trailers. Does anyone have a (very long boom) crane they can lease to help me to get the big ones over the fence and into the backyard? I look forward to suggestions as to the name of this operation.

browning375
06-13-2013, 11:08 PM
Since we don't have the contracts or legal setup, it would be unfair to just assume that. More likely ...? one has put the $1.5M towards the development financing (usually with such things, the financier gets the net proceeds until they are paid in full), or one has the $ in a legal trust account with contingencies of a certain volume of further sales, or other conditions to be met before it can be released. But, yah, it is possible - we need to have the factual context of the legal setup and contracts to assess that.
I have just come up with a scheme to store and "maintain" boats in my tiny city yard for such rewards .... given the state of my neighbour's unmowed hoarder junkyard, the bylaw guys should be distracted enough to ignore it ....?, and then I won't have to mow either, as every inch of grass will be subdued by the recumbent boats and trailers. Does anyone have a (very long boom) crane they can lease to help me to get the big ones over the fence and into the backyard? I look forward to suggestions as to the name of this operation.

How about sh#t show marine storage?

Zip-in-Z
06-14-2013, 08:17 PM
The fellow trying to sell his dock-o-minium now has 2 slips FSBO, must be his & her's and now I imagine he's broke and needs the cash!

My bad .... the developer also has an ad on Kijiji & say there's 174 slips and 73 are sold that leaves another 100 for sale..... didn't see any line up's trying to get one. Yearly Dockofee's range from $506.35 - $584.25, cheep!



http://www.watersedgesylvan.com/the-marina/


http://alberta.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-boats-watercraft-powerboats-motorboats-Boat-Slip-Sylvan-Lake-Marina-W0QQAdIdZ492579319QQfeaturedAdZtrue


I guess people have money for toy's or hobbies and you can't take it with you when your gone, so enjoy it while you can.

Zip-Z

browning375
06-15-2013, 10:03 AM
The fellow trying to sell his dock-o-minium now has 2 slips FSBO, must be his & her's and now I imagine he's broke and needs the cash!

My bad .... the developer also has an ad on Kijiji & say there's 174 slips and 73 are sold that leaves another 100 for sale..... didn't see any line up's trying to get one. Yearly Dockofee's range from $506.35 - $584.25, cheep!



http://www.watersedgesylvan.com/the-marina/


http://alberta.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-boats-watercraft-powerboats-motorboats-Boat-Slip-Sylvan-Lake-Marina-W0QQAdIdZ492579319QQfeaturedAdZtrue


I guess people have money for toy's or hobbies and you can't take it with you when your gone, so enjoy it while you can.

Zip-Z

Is that $506.00- 580.00 on top of the $74000.00 lease price?

People must have more money than brains in this province? Never heard of someone selling a marina slip like this. People should go to Cold lake and see an actual marina that is affordable to launch at and is run by the town!

Zip-in-Z
06-15-2013, 11:51 AM
Is that $506.00- 580.00 on top of the $74000.00 lease price?

People must have more money than brains in this province? Never heard of someone selling a marina slip like this. People should go to Cold lake and see an actual marina that is affordable to launch at and is run by the town!


From the info on the developers website the $506.00-580.00 range is the yearly condo fee's for your private dock. I imagine once the buildings go up and they have a clearer idea of the O&M costs that price will rise as well. The Town of Sylvan is more concerned about generating revenue & not at all concerned about public boat launch access.

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Zip-Z

Sylvan99
06-15-2013, 12:56 PM
I have recently bought one of these slips and thought I should clear up a bunch of misinformation. First off the slips are all individually titled and owned by the buyers. Same as if you are buying or selling your house. The plan has already been registered by the Alberta Government. The "risk" with this project was if the developer would complete construction which is now all done. No risk left. I too was initially confused by all of this and then realized because it was private lands and not the lake that it was allowed to occur. I am an avid sportsman and have been living in Sylvan for over 20 years. This is the best thing that could have happened to that eye soar of what was a complete dump of a marina. If it is going to be a great investment or not..time will tell, but I can tell you myself and my family have already enjoyed it tremendously. But I do know one thing for sure, they aren't making anymore lakes and it is very doubtful that there will ever be another marina on Sylvan Lake.

Rob S
06-15-2013, 12:58 PM
My bud is one of the boats parked there. He rented it from an owner for 3K for the whole summer. Same price as last year, cant complain one bit!! We were the first ones in the new marina :-)

Lornce
06-15-2013, 05:47 PM
I inquired but don't have that kind of dough. would buy real propery instead if I did. Sent an email out to see if you owned it here is what I got back.

Dear Sir,
The marina is actually a condominiun ( the developers call it a dockominium ) thus you actually own the slips like any other piece of real estate. Condo fees are expected to be about $32.00 per month.

rielbowhunter
06-15-2013, 10:08 PM
thanks for the info. is there any where else a guy can put his boat in? I have only been to sylvan once in the summer time, that's a really busy place.

huntsfurfish
06-16-2013, 10:46 AM
Ill take two please.

LuvSylvan1
06-17-2013, 12:52 PM
I am seriously looking at purchasing a boat slip at the new marina. I spent about 4 hours with the sales guy to get the facts on the marina, well worth the time! I was able to get a good understanding of what they are offering and how the fee structure works. Basically you buy the slip and get title to the property it sits on, then pay a modest "condo" fee of about $35/mo depending on which size of slip you want. I can leave my boat in a secure slip, in protected water, it includes access to an adjacent boat launch, all walkways and docks are new and very nicely finished, the pile structure around the marina structure looks like it will last 100 years! The boat launch and parking area are newly paved, the bathrooms, which slip owners have exclusive use of, are new and very impressive. My wife reaaly likes the 'private' bathroom idea. I can purchase boat gas right in the marina....the only water access gas station on the lake. As an outsider to Sylvan Lake, I can't understand why anyone would not want what this marina offers! I think I am going to go ahead and purchase a slip as I think it will also appreciate in value once everyone catches on.

Lornce
06-17-2013, 01:39 PM
Just curious, LuvSylvan1, you have one post and this is only as a sales pitch for the marina, was this to try and counteract the response? I had a slip on Okanagan Lake for 10 years at a very fraction of that price. These days looking at it logically I can can buy really nice dock space on the Shuswap or Mara Lake for my 18 foot boat for about $1,300 a or less a season. But then that's me and what I would do.

coppercarbide
06-17-2013, 02:29 PM
Wow, I hope you are getting paid by the word, that mess of a paragraph is certainly worth a few *shill*ings.

I suggest you re-read Aesop's 451st fable... you're supposed to put sheep's clothing on BEFORE approaching the flock.



I am seriously looking at purchasing a boat slip at the new marina. I spent about 4 hours with the sales guy to get the facts on the marina, well worth the time! I was able to get a good understanding of what they are offering and how the fee structure works. Basically you buy the slip and get title to the property it sits on, then pay a modest "condo" fee of about $35/mo depending on which size of slip you want. I can leave my boat in a secure slip, in protected water, it includes access to an adjacent boat launch, all walkways and docks are new and very nicely finished, the pile structure around the marina structure looks like it will last 100 years! The boat launch and parking area are newly paved, the bathrooms, which slip owners have exclusive use of, are new and very impressive. My wife reaaly likes the 'private' bathroom idea. I can purchase boat gas right in the marina....the only water access gas station on the lake. As an outsider to Sylvan Lake, I can't understand why anyone would not want what this marina offers! I think I am going to go ahead and purchase a slip as I think it will also appreciate in value once everyone catches on.

Zip-in-Z
06-17-2013, 07:04 PM
I am seriously looking at purchasing a boat slip at the new marina. I spent about 4 hours with the sales guy to get the facts on the marina, well worth the time! I was able to get a good understanding of what they are offering and how the fee structure works. Basically you buy the slip and get title to the property it sits on, then pay a modest "condo" fee of about $35/mo depending on which size of slip you want. I can leave my boat in a secure slip, in protected water, it includes access to an adjacent boat launch, all walkways and docks are new and very nicely finished, the pile structure around the marina structure looks like it will last 100 years! The boat launch and parking area are newly paved, the bathrooms, which slip owners have exclusive use of, are new and very impressive. My wife reaaly likes the 'private' bathroom idea. I can purchase boat gas right in the marina....the only water access gas station on the lake. As an outsider to Sylvan Lake, I can't understand why anyone would not want what this marina offers! I think I am going to go ahead and purchase a slip as I think it will also appreciate in value once everyone catches on.


Not a bad first post for someone who just may be related to the developer or the sales guy ..... I'm sure most everyone has already caught on, too! My sources tell me the town is still entertaining the other developer who plans on building the another marina/boat launch at a much more reasonable cost that the foregoing, good luck to ya!

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Zip-Z

browning375
06-17-2013, 10:38 PM
Hmmm.... Something smells in this thread!

bentley
06-17-2013, 10:46 PM
It's 40 bucks to launch your boat and there is no parking lot ! Where can you park your truck & trailer in that town and not get the trailer lights broken ? WOW

barbless
06-19-2013, 03:19 PM
Haven't been to Sylvan in 2 yrs. Is this new boat launch where the old lighthouse use to be? Looks impressive. $40 to launch your boat? Not too bad for a big lake I guess. Try Chester/slew east of Calgary. Same price and small.

laker1
06-19-2013, 11:41 PM
Haven't been to Sylvan in 2 yrs. Is this new boat launch where the old lighthouse use to be?

Yeah. If you ask me it's still pretty steep seeing as unless something has changed there is a free boat launch up on the north end of the lake

Isopod
06-20-2013, 12:31 AM
Sylvan marina used to be my go-to access point for ice-fishing on Sylvan. It has been off-limits now for several years... now that the new marina is completed, will public access be granted again in winter? I sure hope so, but I highly doubt it.

I think Alberta lakes should be easily accessible by the general public on a year-round basis, not something that is increasingly reserved for those with money.

TJG
06-20-2013, 01:55 PM
X2

Just curious, LuvSylvan1, you have one post and this is only as a sales pitch for the marina, was this to try and counteract the response? I had a slip on Okanagan Lake for 10 years at a very fraction of that price. These days looking at it logically I can can buy really nice dock space on the Shuswap or Mara Lake for my 18 foot boat for about $1,300 a or less a season. But then that's me and what I would do.

Rob S
06-20-2013, 05:42 PM
It's 40 bucks to launch your boat and there is no parking lot ! Where can you park your truck & trailer in that town and not get the trailer lights broken ? WOW

Not get the lights smashed?? Now THATS a tall order ;-p
Hell I found a stolen Escalade today! True story

Rob S
06-20-2013, 05:44 PM
Yeah. If you ask me it's still pretty steep seeing as unless something has changed there is a free boat launch up on the north end of the lake

There is. And there is a "security guard" this would be the best bet for a good launch and no fn around with your vehicle.

Rob S
06-20-2013, 05:46 PM
Yeah. If you ask me it's still pretty steep seeing as unless something has changed there is a free boat launch up on the north end of the lake

Sylvan marina used to be my go-to access point for ice-fishing on Sylvan. It has been off-limits now for several years... now that the new marina is completed, will public access be granted again in winter? I sure hope so, but I highly doubt it.

I think Alberta lakes should be easily accessible by the general public on a year-round basis, not something that is increasingly reserved for those with money.

I agree, no you wont be able to access thru the marina anymore. But tell ya what, keep heading west past the golf carts and the other marina and take the next right at the big Norglenwold sign. Put you right on your spot in bout 5 mins. There are legit issues with the new marina, your ice fishing access is a new one though.