Re: Crossbow in Bow Season Due to Disibility

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Just for everyones Info...

I had two shooters come in one was 82 years old ...had Arthritis so bad he couldnt draw the mininum draw at 40 lbs..and shook extremely bad!!

The other a man in his 40's with MS also shook badly and also could not draw the mininum 40 lbs...even so he bought a compound bow and tried to build up to the 40 lbs...six months later he had to give up...

Both however could shoot an crossbow very effectivitly...and bought crossbows on their own decision...I wrote a printed statement explaining their situations...and my opionion that they absolutely could not draw mininum weight and even if so they wouldnt be able to shoot effectictly and safely...due to their disabilities

They then both went to their own reputable medical doctors and also got sworn statements from the medical Doctors...

They then both went to Fish and Wildlife [seperate as both cases were seperate] in person ..and both were TURNED down!!!

According to the wisdom of F&W a person with a disability is one with litterly misiing limbs...and that was the only disibilities that they would allow a crossbow in bow season...


I contacted head office in Edmonton and was told basically the exact same thing..

One female F&W officer even went so far as too give me a blast of crap saying I was missinforming these gentlemen by telling that this just to sell them Crossbows...which was their own descion, However I did state In my humble Opionion they would diefinatly be permantly disabled for shooting a legal Bow accurately and safely...

The crossbows had to be ordered by their request as I do not stock them..

So just a warning if you have a temporay disablility or even a permanant disibility that isnt a missing limb...odds are you will NOT get a crossbow licence in bow season.

JMHO
Neil

[Pincherguy]

I have heard this from many people. A good friend of mine is now the head honcho of one of the northern stations. I asked him about these permits and he said the same thing, you almost need to be missing a limb before they will give you one. On the same note, there are guys out there that have these permits that are healthier than I am.

[H380]

I have heard this from many people. A good friend of mine is now the head honcho of one of the northern stations. I asked him about these permits and he said the same thing, you almost need to be missing a limb before they will give you one. On the same note, there are guys out there that have these permits that are healthier than I am.

Seems to be the case in a lot of instances .. depends on who you talk to in order to get the permit . The reason I believe it is getting harder to get is because the permit has been abused so bad . I know of an individual that received a permit because he had bad knees ! Talk about abuse !:argue2:

[58thecat]

Cart before the horse, written medical note from doctor, written approval from fish and game wildlife than buy the equipment to hunt...no surprises than:stressed:

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

:D ...I agree, its not impossible but highly unlikely now...BTW the two shooters I mentioned in the post went to a entirely different F&W office and results were the same...

Good on the horse and Cart... But Fish and Widlife said go to them first...then Doctor ..then purchace as you say...

The shooters above were both going to use during spring bear season and/or rifle so they bought anway... one I know , the older gentlemen did get a nice bear that next spring with the crossbow...

Neil

[bagwan]

Tell them to get the application forms from FW. They are quite plain. The amputee rule was dropped a couple of years ago to a more relaxed posture as some people genuinely were left out. I believe TJ had a post on here a couple years ago with the new rules. Methinks your FW Officers aren't up to speed on the relaxed rules. It won't be the first time. The new forms clearly state a Dr OR a physiotherapist can attest to a persons limitations. The Dr or physio person signing has to ensure that the disability is PERMANENT. Perhaps in your case that was not in the letters.

[HunterDave]

The answers that they are getting from F & W are incorrect. You no longer have to be an amputee or have a paralysis, that was the old criteria. I'll do a search and post up the new criteria. Also, the forms that have to be filled out can be done by various medical practitioners (ie. physio therapist) and not only by a Doctor. If someone at F&W told them that they had to be an amputee then they are 100% wrong by saying so. Perhaps there was a different reason for the refusal.

Criteria to follow......

[petew]

With a 40# bow with 70% letoff and they shake to bad to shoot? That is about 3# holding weight, so if they can't hold 3# how can they hold up the crossbow without shaking to bad to hunt?

[HunterDave]

See the last point in the list of criteria.

http://mywildalberta.com/BuyLicences/HuntingLicencesFees/documents/CrossbowLicenceCriteria-InfoSheet-Jun2011.pdf

[HunterDave]

Here's the form that must be certified by a medical professional.

http://mywildalberta.com/BuyLicences/HuntingLicencesFees/documents/CrossbowLicence-MedicalCertificationLetter-Jun2011.pdf

If the answer was that they don't have an amputation then I would definitely pursue it. If their denial was for a different reason then that would be a different story.

[Rockjockey]

Hey Neil, these are the same civil servants that were charging people for fishing with barbed hooks for 2 years when the law had been revoked.

I am bored at work so I went looking for the answer in the Wildlife Act and here is what I found:

Hunting with bow
105(1) A person shall not hunt big game, wolf, coyote or game
birds with a bow (excluding a legal cross-bow) and arrow unless he
holds a bow hunting permit in addition to the licences, if any, that
are otherwise required.
(2) A person shall not hunt big game with a legal cross-bow during
an archery only season unless the person holds a cross-bow licence.
(3) A person shall not use an arrow that is less than 24 inches in
length with any kind of bow that is not a cross-bow for the purpose
of hunting big game.

Section 42 AR 143/97 WILDLIFE REGULATION

Cross-bow licence — eligibility
41(1) In this section, “medically certified” involves the provision
of the applicable confirmation by a physician, occupational
therapist or physiotherapist to the Department, in writing and on
the form provided by the Department.
(2) A person is eligible to obtain or hold a cross-bow licence if and
only if he is an individual who
(a) is
(i) a paraplegic,
(ii) a quadriplegic,
(iii) a hemiplegic,
(iv) a single above-the knee lower limb amputee, or
(v) a double lower limb amputee,
(b) suffers from any other physical condition, affliction or
handicap that is permanent in nature and that involves an
upper limb paralysis or amputation that prevents that
individual from utilizing conventional archery equipment,
or
(c) suffers from any other physical condition, affliction or
handicap involving an upper limb that is medically
certified as one that

(i) will not improve within the next 3 years, and
(ii) prevents that individual from utilizing conventional
archery equipment (being archery equipment
consisting of a bow and arrow where the bow
requires 40 pounds of pull to draw an arrow 28
inches in length to its head).

AR 143/97 s41;85/2011

Below is the wildlife act online so no one can say I am making up my own laws like some civil servants.

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/1266.cfm?page=1997_143.cfm&leg_type=Regs&isbncln=9780779770793


Do not get me wrong, I do not think that ever Tom, Dick and Harry should be able to go to a doctor and get a free pass to hunt with a crossbow. I am middle aged and have rheumatoid arthritis as well as physically abused my body during my misguided youth. I have a bow and this year hung it up due to my inability to comfortable pull the 50lbs and hold. I bought a crossbow for bear hunting and know that I would need legal representation like OJ Simpson to get the papers needed to hunt during the archery season.

So hear is my idea for SRD. Have a list of doctors in the various metropolitan centers who for a fee to the applicant determine if they are not capable of hunting with a bow. That way a family doctor would not be just signing a form and the SRD would still have control over who does and doesn't have a disability. I for one would pay a couple hundred bucks and the time needed waiting for a doctor's appointment to use my crossbow.

PS: if any wardens take issue with this post, my name is Allison Redford. :sHa_shakeshout:

[58thecat]

:D ...I agree, its not impossible but highly unlikely now...BTW the two shooters I mentioned in the post went to a entirely different F&W office and results were the same...

Good on the horse and Cart... But Fish and Widlife said go to them first...then Doctor ..then purchace as you say...

The shooters above were both going to use during spring bear season and/or rifle so they bought anway... one I know , the older gentlemen did get a nice bear that next spring with the crossbow...

Neil

With all the information now provided in this thread I know it is happening as I personally know two people with authorization to hunt with a crossbow during archery season but have to re apply on a yearly basis for this.

[HunterDave]

With all the information now provided in this thread I know it is happening as I personally know two people with authorization to hunt with a crossbow during archery season but have to re apply on a yearly basis for this.

F&W made a great improvement with the criteria/application process but I wish that they'd fix this part. Permanent and non-corrective injuries, even amputations, are dealt like the condition is going to mysteriously improve somehow. Approval gets you a permit for one year but F&W Officers can approve a 3 year period of time before a person has to jump through the loops and hoops again getting the forms filled out (at a cost of course) and resubmitting them for approval. This would be a good system for temporary, correctable injuries but for someone that is missing an arm to have to go through that BS? Do they think that it's going to grow back or what?

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

With a 40# bow with 70% letoff and they shake to bad to shoot? That is about 3# holding weight, so if they can't hold 3# how can they hold up the crossbow without shaking to bad to hunt?

:D Pete...they both used tripods...I didn't think they would do too great but the were outstanding up to 50 yds..impressed me!!!

Neil

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

:D Thanks guys great info...I did not know about the new criteria..

Much thanks to Rockjockey and HunterDave ..copied and printed...

This happened two hunting seasons ago...and never had or wanted to deal with it since...I will make a call to these two gentlemen and refer them this info...

The reason I even mentioned this is I read two posts of shooters with shoulder issues [ ones that will most likely cure with proper medical care ] and it was mentioned that they may try a crossbow in archery season...so I just wanted to pass on our experience...

good job guys
Neil

[Pincherguy]

The easiest solution to help clear up who is eligible and who isn't, open up crossbows to the archery season.:sSc_hiding::grouphugg:

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

:scared0015: ...OH NO YOU DID...INT!!!


:sign0161: :angry3: :p:p:p

[pottymouth]

The easiest solution to help clear up who is eligible and who isn't, open up crossbows to the archery season.:sSc_hiding::grouphugg:

I can see it now!

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa463/Tsouli/maple-leafs.jpg (http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Tsouli/media/maple-leafs.jpg.html)

[Ultimate Predator]

Cant draw or hold a bow but good to 50 yrds one more reason crossbows should not be allowed in archery season good for these guys trying to still get out there but im glad rules r tough lot of fakers out there!!

[catnthehat]

Just for everyones Info...

I had two shooters come in one was 82 years old ...had Arthritis so bad he couldnt draw the mininum draw at 40 lbs..and shook extremely bad!!

The other a man in his 40's with MS also shook badly and also could not draw the mininum 40 lbs...even so he bought a compound bow and tried to build up to the 40 lbs...six months later he had to give up...

Both however could shoot an crossbow very effectivitly...and bought crossbows on their own decision...I wrote a printed statement explaining their situations...and my opionion that they absolutely could not draw mininum weight and even if so they wouldnt be able to shoot effectictly and safely...due to their disabilities

They then both went to their own reputable medical doctors and also got sworn statements from the medical Doctors...

They then both went to Fish and Wildlife [seperate as both cases were seperate] in person ..and both were TURNED down!!!

According to the wisdom of F&W a person with a disability is one with litterly misiing limbs...and that was the only disibilities that they would allow a crossbow in bow season...


I contacted head office in Edmonton and was told basically the exact same thing..

One female F&W officer even went so far as too give me a blast of crap saying I was missinforming these gentlemen by telling that this just to sell them Crossbows...which was their own descion, However I did state In my humble Opionion they would diefinatly be permantly disabled for shooting a legal Bow accurately and safely...

The crossbows had to be ordered by their request as I do not stock them..

So just a warning if you have a temporay disablility or even a permanant disibility that isnt a missing limb...odds are you will NOT get a crossbow licence in bow season.

JMHO
Neil
I have a lawyer friend who I think would love to take those officers to court and prove the case!
Cat

[Pincherguy]

I can see it now!

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa463/Tsouli/maple-leafs.jpg (http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Tsouli/media/maple-leafs.jpg.html)
LOL, not getting into it tonight. Just wanted to jump start your heart.:sHa_sarcasticlol: Ilove your blueboy pic, that's great

[pottymouth]

LOL, not getting into it tonight. Just wanted to jump start your heart.:sHa_sarcasticlol: Ilove your blueboy pic, that's great

:sHa_shakeshout:

[LBB]

Cant draw or hold a bow but good to 50 yrds one more reason crossbows should not be allowed in archery season good for these guys trying to still get out there but im glad rules r tough lot of fakers out there!!

I would like to see how u guys would react if you were in my position. I have voted against xbows in the archery season except for disability reasons. This will be my 40th year bowhunting in alberta never missed a year. I am doing everything in my power not to miss this season and not to use a Xbow. I expect and hope that come sept I will have my compound in my hand, but if all my efforts fail and it takes longer to heal, I think it would be unfair not to be able to hunt, even if its with a Xbow. I believe this is going to become a issue for more bowhunters as the pop. Ages.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Don't let people get to you. I fully support legitimate xbow use due to an injury or disability.

I hope you heal up and are able to participate this year!

LC

[LBB]

Don't let people get to you. I fully support legitimate xbow use due to an injury or disability.

I hope you heal up and are able to participate this year!

LC

Thanks lefty good advice.

[catnthehat]

I would like to see how u guys would react if you were in my position. I have voted against xbows in the archery season except for disability reasons. This will be my 40th year bowhunting in alberta never missed a year. I am doing everything in my power not to miss this season and not to use a Xbow. I expect and hope that come sept I will have my compound in my hand, but if all my efforts fail and it takes longer to heal, I think it would be unfair not to be able to hunt, even if its with a Xbow. I believe this is going to become a issue for more bowhunters as the pop. Ages.

I actually was in your position for quite some time.
Although I support crossbows for legitimate handicaps, myself I will not hunt with a compound, let alone a cross bow for the simple reason they are not what I am into.
have dropped way down on my long bow poundage and will again hunt with a bow this year, but when the day comes that I can no longer hiunt with a stick bow I'll hang up the archery gear and simply use my rifles .
I have done the majority of my archery huntign in regular open seasons BTW, because that is the longest season up here.
Cat

[LBB]

I actually was in your position for quite some time.
Although I support crossbows for legitimate handicaps, myself I will not hunt with a compound, let alone a cross bow for the simple reason they are not what I am into.
have dropped way down on my long bow poundage and will again hunt with a bow this year, but when the day comes that I can no longer hiunt with a stick bow I'll hang up the archery gear and simply use my rifles .
I have done the majority of my archery huntign in regular open seasons BTW, because that is the longest season up here.
Cat

I hope u get to bow hunt forever. I already know that I will be turning down the poundage, if I get to use the bow his year. Thanks

[catnthehat]

I hope u get to bow hunt forever. I already know that I will be turning down the poundage, if I get to use the bow his year. Thanks

Right back at ya!!:)
Everybody likes different stuff, that is what makes the world fun!:sHa_shakeshout:
Cat

[CNP]

I have a lawyer friend who I think would love to take those officers to court and prove the case!
Cat

Hey Cat......Neil admits that this happened two years ago. That was prior to the amendments allowing more people to be eligible.

[CNP]

I'm not a spring chicken and I support the use of crossbows for the disabled. I would even say that why not allow seniors the same advantage. However, and this is how I apply this to myself, not to anyone else. There may come a time for some of us where we should admit that there are things that we are not physically capable of performing anymore. Part of the game is knowing when to bow out gracefully. I don't believe that society owes me anything. I don't believe that accommodations are a right. If we are capable of picking up a firearm, a bow or a crossbow, we are responsible for what we do with them. Responsible for the game we shoot, responsible for making our way out of the bush safely. If I can't do any of that..................time to tip my hat to the guys that still can..................and go play some checkers:)

The two guys in the OP. I can't imagine them hunting alone and I don't suspect that they think they have the wherewithal to complete a hunt and harvest an animal a to z (or maybe they think they do?). Having said that, the relative or friend that accompanies them must be more committed to being the guy providing direct supervision than hunting themselves.......that also may include admitting that what is being proposed, cannot be safely achieved.

[calgarychef]

While I agree with the use of crossbows for the handicapped, when I can't draw my longbow anymore....I'll reach for the smoke pole. I won't worry about it, I'll just get on with things and enjoy the new chapter in my life. I'll get a nice warm heated pop up blind and a chair, maybe even a rocking chair! If I use a crossbow it'll be in rifle season as I don't want to be selfish and I DO want the younger guys to have a dedicated bow season just like I did-in the good old days.

[Pincherguy]

Here is a question for both sides of the fence. :test:
I recently saw an ad for something called " draw loc ". This is an attachment that is installed on any compound bow. Once attached, it will hold the bow at full draw until released by a mechanical release.:sign0085:
Now the question is " is this legal as it is attached to a vertical bow "?
Potty, you are the resident expert in this matter, what say you?:cheers:

[Ultimate Predator]

Think its a 3/4 draw still have to draw a bit to release the lock and still have to hold bow at full draw if its legal in alberta i dont know for sure

[Lefty-Canuck]

Here is a question for both sides of the fence. :test:
I recently saw an ad for something called " draw loc ". This is an attachment that is installed on any compound bow. Once attached, it will hold the bow at full draw until released by a mechanical release.:sign0085:
Now the question is " is this legal as it is attached to a vertical bow "?
Potty, you are the resident expert in this matter, what say you?:cheers:

Sounds very inconvenient when you are ground hunting game and the animals head finally goes behind a tree....I think I'll stick to muscular means. Which I think is also defined in the regulations.

LC

[CNP]

Here is a question for both sides of the fence. :test:
I recently saw an ad for something called " draw loc ". This is an attachment that is installed on any compound bow. Once attached, it will hold the bow at full draw until released by a mechanical release.:sign0085:
Now the question is " is this legal as it is attached to a vertical bow "?
Potty, you are the resident expert in this matter, what say you?:cheers:

Not legal. This has come up many times and has been around for many years. It does not meet the definition of archery equipment in the regs.

[Pincherguy]

Not legal. This has come up many times and has been around for many years. It does not meet the definition of archery equipment in the regs.

I believe you are right due to the fact that it is not held by muscular power. LC I think your right to, if they were legal they would only be good in a stand of blind

[58thecat]

I can see it now!

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa463/Tsouli/maple-leafs.jpg (http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Tsouli/media/maple-leafs.jpg.html)

Sexy:scared0018:

[pottymouth]

Here is a question for both sides of the fence. :test:
I recently saw an ad for something called " draw loc ". This is an attachment that is installed on any compound bow. Once attached, it will hold the bow at full draw until released by a mechanical release.:sign0085:
Now the question is " is this legal as it is attached to a vertical bow "?
Potty, you are the resident expert in this matter, what say you?:cheers:

Illegal.

[Pincherguy]

Illegal.

That would be because of the, not held with muscular power. Right, that was my thought as well.

[pottymouth]

That would be because of the, not held with muscular power. Right, that was my thought as well.

Yup.

[338Bluff]

While I agree with the use of crossbows for the handicapped, when I can't draw my longbow anymore....I'll reach for the smoke pole. I won't worry about it, I'll just get on with things and enjoy the new chapter in my life. I'll get a nice warm heated pop up blind and a chair, maybe even a rocking chair! If I use a crossbow it'll be in rifle season as I don't want to be selfish and I DO want the younger guys to have a dedicated bow season just like I did-in the good old days.

classy post:happy0180:

[SBE2]

classy post:happy0180:

X2