number of lakes and number of fishermen

[Bobby B.]

This is from the Alberta Conservation Association

Ontario has 250,000 fish-bearing
lakes, with 585,000 licensed anglers,
or 2.3 anglers per lake.

Saskatchewan has 94,000 fish-bearing lakes,
with about 184,000 licensed anglers,
or 1.9 anglers per lake.

Alberta has only 800 lakes with fish,
but 250,000 licenced anglers, or
312 anglers per lake.

Bobby B.

[Wild&Free]

Lot less licensed anglers this year then in years past it seems. I remember that statistic being closer to 800k with 800 lakes a few years ago.

[Pikebreath]

Lot less licensed anglers this year then in years past it seems. I remember that statistic being closer to 800k with 800 lakes a few years ago.

800k anglers??? Are you sure about that?

With unlicensed anglers (under 16 and over 65) I have seen estimates at something around 300,000 plus anglers or roughly 400 anglers per fish bearing lake. If the average angler makes 6 fishing trips per year that's 2400 angler days per lake on average.

Now consider that easily accessible lakes are going to se a lot more angler use than lakes not easily accessed. Any one care to hazard a guess at the angler days lakes like Wabumun or Pigeon would see in a year?

[Freedom55]

A while ago someone stated that no right thinking Albertan would move to Saskatchewan.

Now it's just me and some other guy.

On the whole pond.

Every time!

Free :)

[Redfrog]

Thank God for catch and release.:shark:

[Pikebreath]

These kind of numbers explain why we have low daily and or mandatory C&R. It also explains why we have minimum size limits which allow fish to spawn once or twice before being harvested. ,,,,, and why we don't see widespread use of slot limits here in Alberta. In a lot of lakes there are more angler days than there are harvestable fish in any particular slot size range. If you allow everyone to take one or two immature fish per angling day, very few if any fish would grow through the slot to become the larger spawners.

Tags (as popular and unpopular as they are) are SRD's attempt at slot limits becuz the harvest can be limited.

I expect we will see more use of tags for harvesting fish in the future.

[Redfrog]

I'm curious about these numbers for U.S. lakes.

[huntsfurfish]

Thanks for posting Bobby B.:)

[Speckle55]

Great post.. show's the challenge we face as Lake Anglers in Alberta
Thanks for sharing

David:)

[bsmitty27]

I have had this talk many times. There are many other variables I think you need to look at; # of lakes within 3 hours of large populations, Climate, water conditions. Yes Ontario and Saskatchewan have thousands of lakes but most of them are not accessible. I am a catch and release guy, and am all for conservation. I have been on lakes in Alberta on weekends and even long weekends within 1 hour of major populations. And have been one of a few boats on the lake, many times. When compared to lakes in Ontario where I was 2.5 hours from major populations and been swamped with boats on a regular basis.
Not saying fishing pressure is not the problem. It is, bit i think because Alberta lakes can't support nearly as much preassure as Ontario or sask lakes. but to say we have more fishing preassure here. I can't agree with that.
My 2c
Brad

[Shmag]

A buddy of mine talked with the F & W on july long weekend...through launch data and ariel, they estimated over 4,000 boats on slave lake on july long weekend....I imagine some were tubing and boating but that's still a lot of action on the water...

[fishmonger]

Doesn't take into account the number of rivers and streams we have in the foothills that also draw fishermen.

The numbers remain "challenging" vs our neighbouring provinces, but they do get watered down as a result.

[huntsfurfish]

The OP shows lakes only. Pretty sure Ontario has a more than a couple rivers and streams too.:)

[Bobby B.]

The OP shows lakes only. Pretty sure Ontario has a more than a couple rivers and streams too.:)

According to my atlas, both Ontario and Sask. have streams and rivers.

Bobby B.

[fishmonger]

Yeah...but fishing pressure is measured differently on streams in Mb vs Ab.

The rivers in Mb are more like lakes, and (apart from the Red and Assbn), are lumped into that number.

The Winnipeg River System, the Nelson River System, the Saskatchewan River Systems and all their catch basins and tribs are recorded as "lakes". The rivers widen, are named "this" lake, and flow into the next lake. Those lakes are captured in the stat you quoted.

Here in Alberta, the Oldman does not widen into a lake 20 times over its course of travel, nor does the Bow, or the NSR.

Different animals.

Go fish Manitoba and you will better understand shield country.

[fishmonger]

And just to be clear...I am not making an argument about mis representing Alberta fishing pressure. I am just commenting that we need to also understand that we have streams and river in Alberta that alleviate "some" of that pressure that is not represented in the OPs original numbers.

Alberta fishing opportunities are a mere fraction of the opportunities that exist in Sask, Mb, Ont and BC.

[fishmonger]

...and thanks for the geography lesson.

And here I thought I was on a lake in Northern MB that was "tilted"...no idea it was a river after all....

[Bobby B.]

...and thanks for the geography lesson.

And here I thought I was on a lake in Northern MB that was "tilted"...no idea it was a river after all....

You're right, my comment about the atlas was totally offside. I was simply being a smart ass when it was not warranted. My apologies.

Bobby B.

[fishmonger]

No offence taken. Was just playing along.

Honestly...

[Bobby B.]

No offence taken. Was just playing along.

Honestly...

Yep, me too.

Don't know exactly why, but for some reason lately, I feel the need to crack some heads. Must be feeling a wee bit stressed out lately. I'm feeling ****ed off at the slightest provocation. I need to give myself a solid attitude adjustment. Maybe I need to go to a bar and drop a lit cigarette in some MOFO's beer and relief some tension. My wife disowns me when I get this way. I'm feeling the old 'kill or be killed rising up'. And, I'm way too old for this sorta ****. Almost.

Bobby B.

[fishmonger]

You need a week long trip to the coast, winching up barn door halibut and chasing springs...In order to vent all that pent up anger.

Work just don't do it son!

[Bobby B.]

You need a week long trip to the coast, winching up barn door halibut and chasing springs...In order to vent all that pent up anger.

Work just don't do it son!

Calling me son, just ****es me off more. Son.

Bobby B.

[fishmonger]

Woulda called you sister, but that may have put you into the car, bat in hand, headed south...

[Lefty-Canuck]

I just want to know what happened to the condom thread because that had AO Classic written all over it!

LC :)

[fishmonger]

Easy now, he seems kinda "twitchy" tonite...

[smitty9]

Folks:

Another variable / factor often not discussed is where "all 800" lakes are located.

Somewhere between Fort Assiniboine and Swan Hills is the geographic center of Alberta.

Knowing that, now look at a map: look north, look south. See the problem?

Many of the fish bearing lakes are still located north of the center of AB. Lac la Biche lakeland, Lesser Slave, not to mention the far north. And yet, 90% of AB's pop is south of this point.

So its nice doing the math, but the real picture is different. Actually, there is more pressure than you think.

Lakes like Gull, Sylvan, Pigeon, Ste. Anne, Wabamun, face alot of pressure from alot of anglers. Another example; think of how little few waterbodies are located within a 2 hour drive of Calgary. The Edmonton-Red Deer-Calgary corridor has relatively few large lakes to fish.

So yeah, despite some issues I have with fisheries policies (and its with the policies, not the hard working people tasked with the thankless job of implementing and enforcing it) they're not doing a half bad job, especially trying to balance all the needs, from meat-fishers to the C&R zealots.

This is a tough province for fisheries. We can, and ought to do better, but frankly, those of us old enough to vote either (1) don't vote or (2) get sucked into the never-ending debates about health-education-economy-debt-sustainability fund-oil royalties /bitumen bubbles. And those issues completely dominate our political discussions.

Let's face it, the gov't pays very little attention to fisheries, because we enable them to largely ignore it. And the fishing pressure issue of anglers per lake / waterbody will continue to grow, as long as this province becomes a net in-migration province, as we inexorably march towards 4 million people...

Smitty

[tight line]

Great post. One thing to remember is that alot of the lakes up north in other provinces are far more inaccessable than most in Alberta, so the anglers per lake is more concentrated to the south. Still WAY less pressure than alberta sees...

[fedfred]

One thing people don't count are the big lakes, such as the great lakes, which have a massive amount of fish and can take a lot of non-commercial pressure. Alberta has nothing like that, mostly toy boats on tiny lakes.

[SKSniper]

When I was camping on the may long we had a few guys pull into our site to ask how the fishing was. We told them lots of small pike. He then went on to b**** and complain (in a thick foreign accent) about how stupid Albertas fishing regs were and how he had such a hard time catching legal sized fish to take home and eat. I though to myself it's because of guys like this that try to limit out every time they go fishing that the rules are so strict. If people would just catch and release and make do with only a few fish frys every year there would be bigger and more fish. Some people just don't look at things from any ones perspectives but their own :(

[fishmonger]

Not everyone is a C&R fisherman...nor should they be. Not everyone is an anti-hunter...nor should they be.

Canada is blessed with resources, we choose to utilize them in our own way.

I don't hunt, but I do fish. I don't keep/kill Alberta fish, but I have kept the odd walleye in the past, and I certainly keep BC coastal species. To each his/her own. It's unfair to pass judgement on those sportsmen who choose to enjoy wild meat, fish or fowl.

Our resources belong to all Canadians, not just to the elite, the fortunate, or the self righteous....with or without thick foreign accents.

To the point of the OPs original comment...Alberta has over 150 times the fishing pressure of Sask and other provinces. Reading into that statistic, that's probably why we have reduced limits, collapsed zero-retention fisheries, and a tag system, among other fishery initiatives, in an effort to halt the further decline of a fragile resource.

"Sustainability"

The "powers that be" have determined that it is sustainable to keep a walleye over XX cms from YY lake...who are we to say different?

Or do we wait until "AO forum scientists" give the OK to allow us to re-begin the harvest?

[SKSniper]

Never once did I pass judgement on anybody, nor did I say only some people should be aloud to fish. I simply said it is very irritating to sit and listen to people who limit out every time bitch about there not being enough fish in Alberta. It's quite hypocritical if you ask me, keeping fish every chance you get and then turning around and complaining that the fisheries here suck.

[pickrel pat]

Never once did I pass judgement on anybody, nor did I say only some people should be aloud to fish. I simply said it is very irritating to sit and listen to people who limit out every time bitch about there not being enough fish in Alberta. It's quite hypocritical if you ask me, keeping fish every chance you get and then turning around and complaining that the fisheries here suck.

There are places where the fishing pressure is higjer and your allowed to take fish home each day. Only difference is in those places they keep fish under a certian size. Here we keep fish over a certian size. Thats partly why some of our lakes are full of little dinks. If we harvested the smaller fish we would have more size classes in the lake.

[fishmonger]

He then went on to b**** and complain (in a thick foreign accent)

Why would his accent be of relevance? Why would it be worth noting? Guessing its the foreigners that are keeping all the fish in the province?


I though to myself it's because of guys like this that try to limit out every time they go fishing that the rules are so strict.

Isn't this passing judgement? These guys are the reason why our fisheries are not as good as other provinces.


If people would just catch and release and make do with only a few fish frys every year there would be bigger and more fish.

Is there a magic number for the amount of fish fries that I am allowed to have each year? Or do we open it up to a vote, let Joe/Jan Public decide?


Some people just don't look at things from any ones perspectives but their own :([/QUOTE]

Amen.



Yes, coming across as a bit of a jerk...but we all need to realize that the people following the rules are NOT the "bad guy". If you choose to keep your limit WITHIN the regulations it does not make you a killer of the resource.

Poachers are bad. Sportsmen/gals are not, regardless of whether they practice C&R or not.

[huntsfurfish]

There are places where the fishing pressure is higjer and your allowed to take fish home each day. Only difference is in those places they keep fish under a certian size. Here we keep fish over a certian size. Thats partly why some of our lakes are full of little dinks. If we harvested the smaller fish we would have more size classes in the lake.

For a while. Then you would/could end up with a collapsed fishery again.:(

[fedfred]

When I was camping on the may long we had a few guys pull into our site to ask how the fishing was. We told them lots of small pike. He then went on to b**** and complain (in a thick foreign accent) about how stupid Albertas fishing regs were and how he had such a hard time catching legal sized fish to take home and eat. I though to myself it's because of guys like this that try to limit out every time they go fishing that the rules are so strict. If people would just catch and release and make do with only a few fish frys every year there would be bigger and more fish. Some people just don't look at things from any ones perspectives but their own :(

Don't be ignorant. When you catch and release you're not doing the fish any favors either. At least this guy's gonna catch a big pike and go home. You're gonna sit around and catch 50 walleye in one day and release them, chances are one of them will die anyway.

[Bobby B.]

Not everyone is a C&R fisherman...nor should they be. Not everyone is an anti-hunter...nor should they be.

Canada is blessed with resources, we choose to utilize them in our own way.

I don't hunt, but I do fish. I don't keep/kill Alberta fish, but I have kept the odd walleye in the past, and I certainly keep BC coastal species. To each his/her own. It's unfair to pass judgement on those sportsmen who choose to enjoy wild meat, fish or fowl.

Our resources belong to all Canadians, not just to the elite, the fortunate, or the self righteous....with or without thick foreign accents.

To the point of the OPs original comment...Alberta has over 150 times the fishing pressure of Sask and other provinces. Reading into that statistic, that's probably why we have reduced limits, collapsed zero-retention fisheries, and a tag system, among other fishery initiatives, in an effort to halt the further decline of a fragile resource.

"Sustainability"

The "powers that be" have determined that it is sustainable to keep a walleye over XX cms from YY lake...who are we to say different?

Or do we wait until "AO forum scientists" give the OK to allow us to re-begin the harvest?

That makes alot of sense to me. I hear it all the time what a great 'trophy pike' lake Wabamun is. Isn't that because it's C+R?

Some 40 years ago when I first started moose hunting, no one had ATV's. And, no one wanted to pack a moose out very far. So, most guys drove the few roads that existed and pretty much shot their moose on or near the road. What this allowed for is the moose deep back in the bush to remain relatively safe from hunters. So, with a healthy population of 'safe' moose to constantly produce sufficient numbers to allow for enough 'roadside' moose to be killed, moose hunting was always good. Now, with ATV's and vast numbers of roads providing access to the 'safe' moose, draws are required to limit the number of moose licences and thus the number of moose killed.

Bobby B.

[Bobby B.]

I just want to know what happened to the condom thread because that had AO Classic written all over it!

LC :)

I wondered what happened to it as well. However, thanks to a phone call from a buddy of mine, I do know how it started and by whom. Both my buddy and I enjoy putting one another on the spot for our own entertainment. Wish I knew how good he got me.

Bobby B.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I wondered what happened to it as well. However, thanks to a phone call from a buddy of mine, I do know how it started and by whom. Both my buddy and I enjoy putting one another on the spot for our own entertainment. Wish I knew how good he got me.

Bobby B.

Pretty good I would say....I wish I screen captured it for you to read. I know you would have enjoyed it as much as the rest of us.

You owe your buddy a "return burn" big time.....lets leave it at that....:)

LC

[Pikebreath]

There are places where the fishing pressure is higjer and your allowed to take fish home each day. Only difference is in those places they keep fish under a certian size. Here we keep fish over a certian size. Thats partly why some of our lakes are full of little dinks. If we harvested the smaller fish we would have more size classes in the lake.

So where are these places with higher fishing pressure and you can keep little fish every day?

In Minnesota and Wisconsin, they can measure the average walleye catch rate in hours per fish,,, here in Alberta it's measured in fish per hour.

I agree we need to look at the practice of putting all the harvest on the oldest and largest fish. Slot limits do work when the harvest within the slot allows enough recruitment through the slot to reach the desired population level of the protected size. This can be accomplished with light to moderate angling and / or combined with restrictive limits (which in Alberta, would likely mean tags).

Lake studies by our SRD over the past 20 - 30 years seem to indicate a sustainable walleye harvest of maybe 1 - 3 kg of walleye per hectare of lake depending on lake productivity. Now consider that lakes like Pinehurst get over 10 hours of angling effort per ha in a summer,,,, http://www.ab-conservation.com/go/default/index.cfm/programs/program-report-details/?&cfgridkey=C0FFA668-BCD6-BFDD-56A344127CD738CB ,,,, (Buck lake was over 20 hours / ha and Pine was over 40!!!)

Can these lakes support an open slot limit of one 1 kg walleye per day per angler? Hardly!!!!

But could a slot limit combined with a limited harvest (tags) work? Sure it would , but such an idea needs better angler acceptance for it to happen.

[huntsfurfish]

So where are these places with higher fishing pressure and you can keep little fish every day?

In Minnesota and Wisconsin, they can measure the average walleye catch rate in hours per fish,,, here in Alberta it's measured in fish per hour.

I agree we need to look at the practice of putting all the harvest on the oldest and largest fish. Slot limits do work when the harvest within the slot allows enough recruitment through the slot to reach the desired population level of the protected size. This can be accomplished with light to moderate angling and / or combined with restrictive limits (which in Alberta, would likely mean tags).

Lake studies by our SRD over the past 20 - 30 years seem to indicate a sustainable walleye harvest of maybe 1 - 3 kg of walleye per hectare of lake depending on lake productivity. Now consider that lakes like Pinehurst get over 10 hours of angling effort per ha in a summer,,,, http://www.ab-conservation.com/go/default/index.cfm/programs/program-report-details/?&cfgridkey=C0FFA668-BCD6-BFDD-56A344127CD738CB ,,,, (Buck lake was over 20 hours / ha and Pine was over 40!!!)

Can these lakes support an open slot limit of one 1 kg walleye per day per angler? Hardly!!!!

But could a slot limit combined with a limited harvest (tags) work? Sure it would , but such an idea needs better angler acceptance for it to happen.

Agree, and that is already in place.

But areas with light to moderate pressure likely can sustain limit of one to 3 fish over a certain length insuring sustainability. Even if pressure increases will allow time for adjustment (3 fish to 1 fish or increase in size limit).