Bear Attack

[Coreyh]

I received a phone call from my Dad earlier today. He is out at our place in Cadomin, and he was telling me about a bear attack that happened earlier today.
There was a lone hiker heading up to "baldy". Thats the big hill with the huge cross on top of it. Anyway, a grizzly came after him, and tore up his legs and clawed his chest up, but eventually went away. The hiker then started to walk and crawl his way back to his truck(I don't know where it was, but I do know you can't get it very close to anyplace that you would walk to baldy from). The griz came back after a short time and mauled him again, but then left him, again. They guy eventually made it back to his truck and drove to the general store in town. Took about 40 min for the ambulance to arrive from Hinton. I heard about it on the news this evening, but these details were definitely lacking. All this information came from a neighbor who was at the store when the hiker came in, and our place is right on the river, so Dad has been able to see the F&W do their thing all day.
Of course, the F&W have descended on the place. They've blocked off the road along the railroad tracks so no one can get to the east mine area. I guess a helicopter showed up late this afternoon. Needless to say, the hunt is on.
My question is, when they find the bear. Will they kill it right away, or try to tranquilize and relocate it?
Our thoughts and prayers are with the hiker.

[SakoAlberta]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/08/16/6476016-cp.html

[Bigrib]

Sure hope the hiker pulls through .

Sounds like the attack happened outside of a park so that might make it easier for the bear to be killed in these "save the bear " PC times.

Hopefully the hiker recovers and gives the details of the attack. Sometimes attacks happen so quick that nothing will prevent it . If one doesn't carry a gun then a couple dogs that aren't a liability and pepper spray seem like a good idea . Dogs won't always see or smell a bear before you see it but if the dogs are worth their feed they should try to get it off of you if the bear attacks you . Most Husky/Malamute type dogs are natural bear dogs . Pepper spray won't always work but given the choice I'd rather have it than not. One of those boar spears might come in handy too.

[Jester]

My guess is that they will kill it right away.

At least I hope they do....this bear had a taste of human blood and will only cause further problems...IMO.

[Tundra Monkey]

You're not alone with that opinion there Jester.

tm

[Grizzly Adams]

Given the rate at which they are destroying these problem bears, it won't be long before it will equal what hunters killed, when we had a Grizzly season. Another reason to re-institute a Hunt.
Grizz

[honda450]

Be interesting to see how many grizz attacks there were before and after the closure. What are those dogs with the black tongue that are supposed to be good bear defending dogs. My buddy in Northern BC had one but just can't recall the name. That dog liked to dig too, big holes.

[Young Eldon]

I'm not aware of any dog breed that has a black tongue. A couple of the better bear dog breeds are the Karelian (from Finland) and the Liaka (western Russia) - both are Spitz types that love to hunt and are smart enough to chew out the top edge of the hole they are digging (this allows them to get their shoulders down into the hole).
:)

[Big Bull]

Be interesting to see how many grizz attacks there were before and after the closure. What are those dogs with the black tongue that are supposed to be good bear defending dogs. My buddy in Northern BC had one but just can't recall the name. That dog liked to dig too, big holes.
There are Akita bear dogs and also Korillian bear dogs that I know of.

[twofifty]

maybe a Karelian bear dog...they're from northern Finland. Dunno about the tongue though.

[honda450]

No these dogs have a black tongue. Its weird I know. Got the name now its a Chow.

[CaberTosser]

**** My buddy has a Great Pyrenees, those things are great bear dogs. I caught a TV program on working dogs that had a feature on them. 3 Pyr's were shepherding a flock of sheep from one pasture to the next; the Alpha dog treed a black bear while the other 2 continued on with the sheep. The Pyr stood watch on that bear for a few hours before getting bored and rejoining the herd. My pal always has to be careful in introducing his dog to others, particularly at his place. She can be fine with other dogs, playing well; its just that other canines have to be tuned in as to who is unquestionably dominant.

[Vindalbakken]

No these dogs have a black tongue. Its weird I know. Got the name now its a Chow.

From a web page on the history and origins of the Chow.

"There are two different theories as to how the Chow Chow got his name. Chow, or 'chou', is Chinese slang for edible. Will Judy, author of The Chow Chow, wrote that the name meant 'edible dog of China". Authorities claim that both Chinese and Koreans bred these dogs to be eaten, particularly the smooth-coated variety. In 1878, a British historian and authority on China claimed to have found 25 restaurants in Canton featuring chows on the menu. In 1915, a law was passed in China prohibiting the buying and selling of dog meat. The word chow means food in English, and the shipments of spices and
mixed pickles from China became known as chow chow, as did a spicy pickle relish.."

[honda450]

Well I ain't eaten no dog. Informative post there Vinny. That dog too was not good with children. But man could that hound dig.

[Nomad]

I was in town the day of the attack. The hiker wasn't carrying any protection other than a hiking pole which he did use to whack the bear and eventually got it off him. He never heard a thing until it came up right behind him and jumped him. F&W have taken bear DNA from the mans clothes and have set up some snares in the area to make sure they get the right bear first. I've had a cabin out here for a while and this place is a grizzly haven. I talked to a local who's been here his whole life and he says there has never been so many grizzlies around.

[Bluedog]

I sure hope the hiker recovers.
I have to weigh in on the Dog talk gentlemen. I'm very dissapointed about the F&W using these Kerlian so called Bear dogs and us tax payer paying for these dogs because some yuppy F&W Officers thinks there the ticket for a bear deterrent. These are not people dogs, they are not other animal friendly as well. For hundreds of years here in north America we have used Hounds (Bear Hounds) Plots, Blueticks, English, Walkers and Black&Tans if the Kerlian was worth a pinch of coon ***** as a bear dog our for fathers would have used them long ago. Last year a hunter was killed just north of were I live buy a Grizzly, With a good pack of hounds the RIGHT bear would have been bayed up in a few hours, The same goes for this attack, The RIGHT bear would bayed up in this heat with-in a few hours, end of story

[59whiskers]

My girls and I had a close call with a grizzly mid-day on a road at Chungo Creek 2 weeks ago Sunday while on holidays. The bear came running up behind me and was about 20 feet away away from me when my girls screamed scaring the bear off briefly, I was about 50 feet ahead of the girls and about 200 feet from my truck. The grizzly did not leave the area even after a couple of well servicing trucks drove by the spot shortly after our encounter. We drove by the bear on the road on our way out of this area. I called Nordegg F&W about this encounter.

[Nomad]

About a half hour ago, the emergency siren went off in town. I had no idea what this was so I went outside where I watched an RCMP vehicle go by then 2 F&W vehicles with lights and sirens blaring, followed by 4 F&W officers on quads with guns slung on there shoulders. Then the Cadomin fire department followed(that's what the siren was for I learned later). They're heading up to the caves which is about 6km from the attack. As I type the helicopter is now out as well. No one has heard for sure what it is for but I hope if it is the bear, they get it.

[Tundra Monkey]

maybe a Karelian bear dog...they're from northern Finland. Dunno about the tongue though.

We raise Karelian Bear Dogs......and yes they are hell on bears/moose to say the least. They are the national dog of Finland. Nope....they don't have a black tongue...those would be the Oriental dogs like Akitas and Chows. Our original dog was named Teufel but after she made made the paper for some of her bear protection duties she was stolen from our home (paper put where we lived :confused: :cry:). We now have three left McKinley came to us from Alaska where she was fully trained on grizz.....she is the most fantastic dog I have ever seen.....she is 5 now. We also have 2 of her daughters who are now 2 years old and ready for harness (ski-jorring). I had one of them fixed (Sasha) and Genevieve will be bred when she is 3 or 4....just gotta find the right guy....likely out of Poland/Holland/Finland.....amazing what you can do with frozen stuff nowadays. McKinley will be heading into the mountains on Friday with me and Cold Redneck.....makes sleeping very easy....your law about not having dogs in camp while hunting is just ******ed.....you wouldn't catch me out there without my girls ;).

I don't want to be a thread stealer but if you want info on these dogs fire away some PM's and I'll try to help......I do not have any to sell so I hope I'm not breaking any laws here....but I can push you in the right direction.

This site amazes me sometimes about the knowledge that is out there....the other dog that was referred to is the Russo-European Laika.....that is the Russian equivalent of the Karelian Bear Dog....just not as pretty :D

tm

[Tundra Monkey]

I sure hope the hiker recovers.
I have to weigh in on the Dog talk gentlemen. I'm very dissapointed about the F&W using these Kerlian so called Bear dogs and us tax payer paying for these dogs because some yuppy F&W Officers thinks there the ticket for a bear deterrent. These are not people dogs, they are not other animal friendly as well. For hundreds of years here in north America we have used Hounds (Bear Hounds) Plots, Blueticks, English, Walkers and Black&Tans if the Kerlian was worth a pinch of coon ***** as a bear dog our for fathers would have used them long ago. Last year a hunter was killed just north of were I live buy a Grizzly, With a good pack of hounds the RIGHT bear would have been bayed up in a few hours, The same goes for this attack, The RIGHT bear would bayed up in this heat with-in a few hours, end of story

Bluedog.......trying to be a bit respectful here......YOU DON'T KNOW CRAP.

Read a little history on these dogs....maybe check on the net for the game trials in Europe....I could make you look pretty stupid right now.....but you did a pretty good job of that yourself :rolleyes:

Respectfully,

tm

[pogo]

My best wishes for the hiker and family.

[Double Shovel]

So which way from the caves was the attack?The news had said NE of Cadomin.

[Bluedog]

TM Thanks for your respect, Yes I have read all I can on your dogs, and I ment no disrespect to you and your dogs personnally. We all love our pets like a member of our own family and if you can trust your dogs alone with Kids thats awsome. Single dog owners who hike alot probably couldn't get better company in the woods.
Us dog lovers are always trying to promote our dogs as the best in the west but truthfully now do they ever turn your Kerlian's loose on a certain track of a particular bear lets say 8 hours old and have an end to a track?
Barking dogs from the side of the road on a leash doesn't educate bears for very long, Being chased a few miles and Bayed up and having there ass bit educates them for life.
I just think there are alot better dogs out there that could seriously address the bear deterent problem for alot less that $5000-$20,000 per animal with some real results.

[Battery]

Be interesting to see how many grizz attacks there were before and after the closure. What are those dogs with the black tongue that are supposed to be good bear defending dogs. My buddy in Northern BC had one but just can't recall the name. That dog liked to dig too, big holes.

Chow Chow?

[Tundra Monkey]

Bluedog,

No disrespect taken. Traditionally what these dogs do is work a track until they find the bear. They then "spin" the bear until basically sits down. Idea is that they keep it there until the hunter shows up.....same thing for moose. True traditionalists use one dog but they work well in pairs as well. They are very agile and move side to side unbelievably quickly.....it is unreal to watch. My dog has been trained to keep them at about 500yds. She lets me know that something is around long before I see it....just gotta learn to listen to the dog :o So the short answer is yes that is the same way that your hounds would do the job. IMO there would probably be more fear factor with the hounds as they tend to be more violent than the Karelians.....there is biting involved but I think that containment is probably a better term for what the Karelians do.

As for getting along with other dogs they are fine. As with any breed you will have dogs that tend to be more dominant than others. I would agree that this is the definately prevalent with Karelians more than in other breeds. I would attribute it to them being very confident in themselves. I have never had a problem unless another dog tried to show dominance over them. These dogs have what I like to refer to as a "light switch" and they turn there aggession on and off just like one.....from 0 to 100mph and off again....weird actually. These encounters are over pretty quickly.....just hope we never run into a pit bull with a lousy owner.

This is not the case with people. They are very loyal and are great family pets. This breed was almost wiped out after WW2 and is very well controlled. From the very beginning aggression towards people has always been bred out and is actually written into the Finnish standard as against the breed standard. It is the most common dog in Finland as per their registration numbers.....kind of like our goldens. You should see what my bratz do to the poor dogs.....if it were me I'd snap.....but we have never had a reason to discipline them for anything like that. My 2 year olds favorite snacks are those little fishy crackers and dog food :sick:. As with any dog.....it boils down to the owner.

Being spitz's they do tend to have a loud/sharp bark all of the time but when they have a real reason to bark, it is unmistakable.

Not sure how about they are going about it or even what dogs they are using. The vast majority of these dogs in N. America are what I'll politely call "watered down". Almost all of the dogs here are mixed with REL's. They are efficient/extemely capable but not true KBD's and cannot be CKC registered as such. I would think that these dogs probably come from the Wind River Institute and are probably pretty good at what they do......although our bloodlines CRUSH their's :tongue2:

Personally I do not think that dogs "showing" up and trying to chase it away will workfor very long. It would leave for awhile and then return IMO. If the dogs were resident in the area it would be a deterant....but I do not believe that to be the case. Best thing to do is finish the job after the dogs do their's....then go home :D

tm

[Grizzly Adams]

We raise Karelian Bear Dogs......and yes they are hell on bears/moose to say the least. They are the national dog of Finland. Nope....they don't have a black tongue...those would be the Oriental dogs like Akitas and Chows. Our original dog was named Teufel but after she made made the paper for some of her bear protection duties she was stolen from our home (paper put where we lived :confused: :cry:). We now have three left McKinley came to us from Alaska where she was fully trained on grizz.....she is the most fantastic dog I have ever seen.....she is 5 now. We also have 2 of her daughters who are now 2 years old and ready for harness (ski-jorring). I had one of them fixed (Sasha) and Genevieve will be bred when she is 3 or 4....just gotta find the right guy....likely out of Poland/Holland/Finland.....amazing what you can do with frozen stuff nowadays. McKinley will be heading into the mountains on Friday with me and Cold Redneck.....makes sleeping very easy....your law about not having dogs in camp while hunting is just ******ed.....you wouldn't catch me out there without my girls ;).

I don't want to be a thread stealer but if you want info on these dogs fire away some PM's and I'll try to help......I do not have any to sell so I hope I'm not breaking any laws here....but I can push you in the right direction.

This site amazes me sometimes about the knowledge that is out there....the other dog that was referred to is the Russo-European Laika.....that is the Russian equivalent of the Karelian Bear Dog....just not as pretty :D

tm


Interesting name for a bear chasing dog.:D Teufel means Devil. Is there a story behind it?
Grizz

[Tundra Monkey]

Interesting name for a bear chasing dog.:D Teufel means Devil. Is there a story behind it?
Grizz

Fine German fellow are you there Grizz :lol:

She came to us already named and we didn't know what it meant until we had a German fellow over for dinner one night and he asked us how she earned her name :huh:

There was plenty of times that she lived up to it :evilgrin:

tm