Has too much manufacturing been concentrated in China?

[rugatika]

The United States has become so dependent on Chinese imports, however, that the F.D.A. may not be able to do much about the Chinese refusal. The crucial ingredients for nearly all antibiotics, steroids and many other lifesaving drugs are now made exclusively in China.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/15/world/asia/medicines-made-in-india-set-off-safety-worries.html?ref=health&_r=1

[molly]

This is probably part of their plan to take over the whole world!! :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[brownbomber]

A problem created by western governments.

[TBD]

the greedy health care industry.

[Wild&Free]

A problem created by western governments.

the greedy health care industry.

you're both right.

where ya been TBD?

[Piker]

I have noticed all the food tho grown elsewhere it is packaged in china or some other country that does not have any regulations . So now I read every label to. Make sure I know where the food is from and where it was packaged. If it is not packed in Canadaor the U.S. I do not buy it I just do not understand how food grown in N.A. Can be shipped overseas and back is stilla bit cheaper It is very puzzling. Piker

[tri777]

[COLOR="Navy"]Has too much manufacturing been concentrated in China?


(Expletive) Yes!!
You have hit a nerve with me on this one,i'm am exhaustingly
fed up with every dam thing coming out of china,i hate
with an absolute passion how the western world is now hiding out
making all sorts of wonderful crap for me to eat & use! Not one person or company is at all concerned about showing me how things are grown,manufactured,raised etc. I can't get thoughts out of my head that
sewer/black water is probably a widespread used item throughout whilst here
in the west the message is "Eat healthy"!

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

(Explestive) Yes!!
You have hit a nerve with me on this one,i'm am exhaustingly
fed up with every dam thing coming out of china,i hate
with an absolute passion how the western world is now hiding out
making all sorts of wonderful crap for me to eat & use! Not one person or company is at all concerned about showing me how things are grown,manufactured,raised etc. I can't get thoughts out of my head that
sewer/black water is probably a widespread used item throughout whilst here
in the west the message is "Eat healthy"!

x2
and to top it off they import their people over to work in places like Tim friggen Hortons and McDonalds
and the gvmnt subsidises their wages with our tax money

[Wild&Free]

You guys should be aware that Harper has every intention of signing a free trade deal with China. good for those who want to rreduce their bottom line, bad for anyone who creates products for retail.

[tri777]

You guys should be aware that Harper has every intention of signing a free trade deal with China. good for those who want to rreduce their bottom line, bad for anyone who creates products for retail.

It is going to bite him in the buttocks quite soon i've a notion!
I have really slowed my purchases lately from chinatire,tools are
now very 'Tonka' like,sockets that round of nuts,bits,screw drivers that are currently dam near plastic,there's NO way Canadians will be tolerating this much longer! When i see 'made in china', i now look really hard at said item,the imperfections of this junk trying to be unloaded unto me..glad i have lots of pre-china tools laying around that i can still pound with a 5lb mallet.

[bison]

Blame it on the consumers.
Everybody want it cheap, this is the result.

There used to be slaves, slavery in our home countries is frowned upon.:argue2:
To circumvent the problem the factories took the work to the slaves instead.:sHa_sarcasticlol:

I'm sure if China would ship diesel here for 1/2 price everyone would buy it ;)

[tri777]

I'm sure if China would ship diesel here for 1/2 price everyone would buy it ;)

Ha ha..imagine all the vechs in the ditches not being able to run on the watered down 'precious liquid'!

[bison]

It is going to bite him in the buttocks quite soon i've a notion!
I have really slowed my purchases lately from chinatire,tools are
now very 'Tonka' like,sockets that round of nuts,bits,screw drivers that are currently dam near plastic,there's NO way Canadians will be tolerating this much longer! When i see 'made in china', i now look really hard at said item,the imperfections of this junk trying to be unloaded unto me..glad i have lots of pre-china tools laying around that i can still pound with a 5lb mallet.Snap-on and other "quality" tools are made in China as well.

just saying

[tri777]

Snap-on and other "quality" tools are made in China as well.

just saying

I also notice parts from NAPA has succummed to this lowly act also,
just bought a "Brand new" (not remanufactured) alternator from there,
any takers where it is made?

[skidderman]

To be competitive a lot of companies either moved to China or had a choice of shutting down. It's mathematically very easy to understand why. Choice # 1) Overpaid lazy union workers that want every perk in the book. Choice 2). Underpaid non union workers who work their hearts out because they have to. Sorry. In many ways we allowed it to happen.

[Grizzly Adams]

This is probably part of their plan to take over the whole world!! :sHa_sarcasticlol:


Guess who holds most of the American National debt? :D They just have to call in the loans and she'll be done.

Grizz

[Wild&Free]

Guess who holds most of the American National debt? :D They just have to call in the loans and she'll be done.

Grizz

pretty sure that's not true.

Social Security controls about 40% of outstanding bonds, and private pension funds another ~20%. US government pays interest to these institutions there by ensuring people like my grandparents aren't in the poor house.

China holds onto a few trillion worth of debt, but the US has more then enough assets to cover that.

[Wild&Free]

It is going to bite him in the buttocks quite soon i've a notion!
I have really slowed my purchases lately from chinatire,tools are
now very 'Tonka' like,sockets that round of nuts,bits,screw drivers that are currently dam near plastic,there's NO way Canadians will be tolerating this much longer! When i see 'made in china', i now look really hard at said item,the imperfections of this junk trying to be unloaded unto me..glad i have lots of pre-china tools laying around that i can still pound with a 5lb mallet.

Just like NAFTA bit Mulroney in the ass... oh wait he abandoned the party to Edmonton mayor and went on to make a killing in the private sector... which gave us the Chretien years and the LGR....

uncanny coincidence.

[Big Daddy Badger]

The United States has become so dependent on Chinese imports, however, that the F.D.A. may not be able to do much about the Chinese refusal. The crucial ingredients for nearly all antibiotics, steroids and many other lifesaving drugs are now made exclusively in China.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/15/world/asia/medicines-made-in-india-set-off-safety-worries.html?ref=health&_r=1

Nope just the capitalists that folks usually defend trying to do the best they can to turn a buck despite the best efforts of all those greedy union guys, anti-globilization "protestors" and liberals.
Of course if people in the west were not so stupid and lazy... they'd have those jobs and the skills needed to do them.

(PS please ignore all the quality control issues thatt we've had with chinese products...like poisoned dog food and childrens toys....)

Thank God for deregulation and the end of the cold war eh?

Otherwise all those good right wing job creators wouldn't be able to take advantage of all that cheap communist labour.

Actually Rugs... I'm impressed.
Thats a leap of insight that I for one did not expect.:)

[rugatika]

The critical difference being that I think it's up to the individual consumer to make his or her purchase decisions and NOT the government. To that end most things I purchase I try and buy Canadian or American whenever possible...and I avoid Walmart and Cdn Tire as much as I can, although I fully support their freedom to follow whatever business model they choose to follow, which is ultimately dictated by the consumer.

If the consumer creates the demand for Canadian and American made products take a guess at who will immediately be there to fill that demand....yup, good old greedy capitalists. IF the consumer demands cheap goods made in China...well, the customer gets what the customer wants.


It is NOT the capitalist that is the problem...it's the consumer (do not forget that consumers are as much a part of capitalism as business owners are...without consumers, businesses cease to exist). Capitalism will always move to fill the demands of the consumer.


I often wonder how many of the people shopping in WalMart are union members. I know I've seen many union workers wearing work boots made in China.

[Wild&Free]

The critical difference being that I think it's up to the individual consumer to make his or her purchase decisions and NOT the government. To that end most things I purchase I try and buy Canadian or American whenever possible...and I avoid Walmart and Cdn Tire as much as I can, although I fully support their freedom to follow whatever business model they choose to follow, which is ultimately dictated by the consumer.

If the consumer creates the demand for Canadian and American made products take a guess at who will immediately be there to fill that demand....yup, good old greedy capitalists. IF the consumer demands cheap goods made in China...well, the customer gets what the customer wants.
no

It is NOT the capitalist that is the problem...it's the consumer (do not forget that consumers are as much a part of capitalism as business owners are...without consumers, businesses cease to exist). Capitalism will always move to fill the demands of the consumer.

the individual consumer cannot sway the market like Wal-Mart can. the free market only benefits those with the capability to influence it. Joe Blow consumer has 0 influence on the markets. also consider real earnings for the average consumer have not risen in 30+ year's... your absolutely right, it's not capitalists fault.

[From The Hip]

To be competitive a lot of companies either moved to China or had a choice of shutting down. It's mathematically very easy to understand why. Choice # 1) Overpaid lazy union workers that want every perk in the book. Choice 2). Underpaid non union workers who work their hearts out because they have to. Sorry. In many ways we allowed it to happen.

BINGO...you hit the nail on the head.....but you missed out the "dirty" industries that the NIMBY crowd forced them to move offshore.

FTH

[bison]

BINGO...you hit the nail on the head.....but you missed out the "dirty" industries that the NIMBY crowd forced them to move offshore.

FTHYep along with manufacturing we exported the pollution as well.
The latter comes back free of charge with the prevailing wind.

[rugatika]

the individual consumer cannot sway the market like Wal-Mart can. the free market only benefits those with the capability to influence it. Joe Blow consumer has 0 influence on the markets. also consider real earnings for the average consumer have not risen in 30+ year's... your absolutely right, it's not capitalists fault.

That's nonsense. Are you telling me that if Walmart only sold products that nobody wanted they would still be in business?

If everyone (or even if only the people that complained about China) made the effort to buy Canadian/American goods rather than buying Chinese it would totally affect the market. Take a walk around a union job-site and count the number of guys wearing Dakota work boots vs Redwings or Danners.

[Wild&Free]

would you invest in a company that has a low ROI or a company with a high ROI?

Do pension and mutual fund managers want to maximize returns or support local/region employment?

do company's want to maximize markups with cheap products for resale?

How many successful businesses run on a nationally produced only model?

how many mega corporations provide what people want instead of targeting those who don't know any better?

your gripe about union worker's wearing made in china boots is nonsense. just because a guy is in a union he should go out and buy the more expensive boots, and not feed, cloth or house his family?

deregulation, the hall mark of a free market gave us this current recession, so more should fix it right?

listen to who's calling for this deregulation, it certiantly isn't the average consumer... most of us want tighter control over the financial institutions responsible for selling bad products.

currently, the most successful capitalist nation is CHINA, and they're centrally governed by communists.

again, those with the most money control the markets, as their buying power far exceeds the average consumer. not to mention they're capacity for social engineering though advertisement, endorsement, and media control.

[Big Daddy Badger]

The critical difference being that I think it's up to the individual consumer to make his or her purchase decisions and NOT the government. To that end most things I purchase I try and buy Canadian or American whenever possible...and I avoid Walmart and Cdn Tire as much as I can, although I fully support their freedom to follow whatever business model they choose to follow, which is ultimately dictated by the consumer.

If the consumer creates the demand for Canadian and American made products take a guess at who will immediately be there to fill that demand....yup, good old greedy capitalists. IF the consumer demands cheap goods made in China...well, the customer gets what the customer wants.


It is NOT the capitalist that is the problem...it's the consumer (do not forget that consumers are as much a part of capitalism as business owners are...without consumers, businesses cease to exist). Capitalism will always move to fill the demands of the consumer.


I often wonder how many of the people shopping in WalMart are union members. I know I've seen many union workers wearing work boots made in China.

Yeah thats right Rugs.
Its not because capitalists decided to export manufacturing and jobs to take advantage of about 3 billion cheap laborors in Communist countries.

Its because North American workers who have been laid off or had their wages basically frozen for the last 30 years are not smart enough or motivated enough to go further in debt so choose to shop where they can afford to for products that they can afford to buy.

Yup... its our own damned fault that what we can afford and what we are offred is made in China crap.
It has nothing to do with the people that are controlling the markets, influencing governments, driving wages down or attacking labor.

Funny.... whenever someone mentions wages or unions or benefits... its communism to you but when corporations sell us all out to do bussiness that makes Red China richer at our expense... its capitalism.

Yup...makes sense.:bad_boys_20:

[Map Maker]

I just do not understand how food grown in N.A. Can be shipped overseas and back is stilla bit cheaper It is very puzzling. Piker

I wondered the same thing and realized it was the fact that China has devalued their dollar. So China may be getting $5 back on a $10 item but that $5 is worth $20 in China.


I have noticed all the food tho grown elsewhere it is packaged in china or some other country that does not have any regulations
The food ships coming from china come into North American ports and some loads are checked and some do get denied. But if they get denied, they just go to the next port down the coast and slip in that way. The Feds can't check every load.
We should have tariffs in place on Chinese goods that should pay for a 3rd party inspection on every single load.


Blame it on the consumers.
Everybody want it cheap, this is the result.
I dont think its the consumers fault. Its the corporations running the government. Corporations want to maximize profits. Moving the production offshore does that.
If our feds would tariff off-shore goods coming in and make it fair, people wouldnt buy chinese junk at the same price.
But our only choice is chinese junk now.

[rugatika]

Yeah thats right Rugs.
Its not because capitalists decided to export manufacturing and jobs to take advantage of about 3 billion cheap laborors in Communist countries.

Its because North American workers who have been laid off or had their wages basically frozen for the last 30 years are not smart enough or motivated enough to go further in debt so choose to shop where they can afford to for products that they can afford to buy.

Yup... its our own damned fault that what we can afford and what we are offred is made in China crap.
It has nothing to do with the people that are controlling the markets, influencing governments, driving wages down or attacking labor.

Funny.... whenever someone mentions wages or unions or benefits... its communism to you but when corporations sell us all out to do bussiness that makes Red China richer at our expense... its capitalism.

Yup...makes sense.:bad_boys_20:

So what is it BDB? Are the capitalists evil for taking the jobs out of the country or are they doing a good deed for providing affordable products to the poor? You seem to want to have your argument both ways.


And who is the capitalist? Is it the CEO that is trying to maximize his profits and minimize his expenses or is it the boilermaker that is doing EXACTLY the same thing? A: They both are. It's human nature.

YES, IT IS ultimately the consumers fault. Anyone who demands a 200 dollar pair of Chinese boots over a 300 dollar pair of American boots is going to chase jobs into China. Not sure how that is beyond your comprehension, or why it continually needs to be explained to you.

I have an average paying job in the patch and I have no problem finding all my work clothes and boots that are made in Canada or USA...many by unions I'll add. Does it mean I have to watch my dollars a little more closely? Maybe. I usually find I get better mileage out of my Redwings than I ever got out of Dakota's anyway. Most Canadian/American products give me more VALUE than any Chinese products do. But that is lost on most people who want to get work boots AND a big screen tv and a quad etc etc.

I'm not saying one choice is right and the other is wrong, (well maybe I kind of am) but both choices have very predictable results. If we keep demanding and buying products made in China instead of here, we are going to keep driving all the manufacturers over there. If we demand products made on our own shores we will keep jobs here. I've made my choice, you've made yours. We all get to live with the consequences.

[RandyBoBandy]

blame it on the consumers.
Everybody want it cheap, this is the result.

There used to be slaves, slavery in our home countries is frowned upon.:argue2:
To circumvent the problem the factories took the work to the slaves instead.:sha_sarcasticlol:

I'm sure if china would ship diesel here for 1/2 price everyone would buy it ;)

this ^x2

and if I may add: "The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory."

[adaras]

In my opinion it is all politics, back home we were producing all kind of fruit, veggies, clothing, timber. we could cover the needs within the country and exports, after joining the euro currency, the government stopes many agri products like corn, wheat, tabaco, cotton, greenhouse products (veggies), they gave the manufacture business nightmares with increasing taxes, union fees and they started importing almost everything, even nails, from china and foreign commi countries, once the money don't circle within the country the future is pretty dark

[Big Daddy Badger]

So what is it BDB? Are the capitalists evil for taking the jobs out of the country or are they doing a good deed for providing affordable products to the poor? You seem to want to have your argument both ways.


And who is the capitalist? Is it the CEO that is trying to maximize his profits and minimize his expenses or is it the boilermaker that is doing EXACTLY the same thing? A: They both are. It's human nature.

YES, IT IS ultimately the consumers fault. Anyone who demands a 200 dollar pair of Chinese boots over a 300 dollar pair of American boots is going to chase jobs into China. Not sure how that is beyond your comprehension, or why it continually needs to be explained to you.

I have an average paying job in the patch and I have no problem finding all my work clothes and boots that are made in Canada or USA...many by unions I'll add. Does it mean I have to watch my dollars a little more closely? Maybe. I usually find I get better mileage out of my Redwings than I ever got out of Dakota's anyway. Most Canadian/American products give me more VALUE than any Chinese products do. But that is lost on most people who want to get work boots AND a big screen tv and a quad etc etc.

I'm not saying one choice is right and the other is wrong, (well maybe I kind of am) but both choices have very predictable results. If we keep demanding and buying products made in China instead of here, we are going to keep driving all the manufacturers over there. If we demand products made on our own shores we will keep jobs here. I've made my choice, you've made yours. We all get to live with the consequences.

And who is it that presented the consumer with that choice?
Who is it that descarded organized labor here and lowered our standard of living after western workers helped tear down the iron curtain?

Honestly Rugs you moake it sound like as soon a sthe cold war ended... consumers all jumped up and demanded that their purchaes be made by offshore labor working in sweat shops.

That is not the case.

Consumers conditioned to price shop just fell into the trap laid by corporations.

You can hardly expect ordinary folks just trying to get by to be held as accounbtable for the bussiness decissions of vereyone that makes, markets or sells products.

People buy what ius offered and at the best price they can... they are juist shopping not consciously making decissions about the ecconomy and international markets.

To suggest that they are responsible and that the people that just laid off their BIL and shipped the whole factory off to Red China are not... is blatantly and intentionally obtuse.

[rugatika]

And who is it that presented the consumer with that choice?
Who is it that descarded organized labor here and lowered our standard of living after western workers helped tear down the iron curtain?

Honestly Rugs you moake it sound like as soon a sthe cold war ended... consumers all jumped up and demanded that their purchaes be made by offshore labor working in sweat shops.

That is not the case.

Consumers conditioned to price shop just fell into the trap laid by corporations.

You can hardly expect ordinary folks just trying to get by to be held as accounbtable for the bussiness decissions of vereyone that makes, markets or sells products.

People buy what ius offered and at the best price they can... they are juist shopping not consciously making decissions about the ecconomy and international markets.

To suggest that they are responsible and that the people that just laid off their BIL and shipped the whole factory off to Red China are not... is blatantly and intentionally obtuse.

That's your argument? That people are too stupid to know any better so government has to make decisions for them?

That's creepy. AND if that is really the case, then people need to be taught economics...even the most rudimentary of lessons in economics. Frankly, if these people you reference are as dumb/ignorant/naïve (you pick the term) as you imply, they should in no freaking way have any sort of access to a voting booth. (I tend to think people are a lot smarter than you give them credit, and are consciously making the decision based on their own greed that they would rather have the short term benefits of cheap products and not worry about the long term consequences)

Over time I have come to the realization or distillation if you will that ONE of the differences between conservatives and liberals is that conservatives tend to think that most people are able and capable of basic thought processes and decision making, while liberals tend to think these decisions and the responsibility need to be taken over or ceded to the government.

[fish gunner]

That's your argument? That people are too stupid to know any better so government has to make decisions for them?

That's creepy. AND if that is really the case, then people need to be taught economics...even the most rudimentary of lessons in economics. Frankly, if these people you reference are as dumb/ignorant/naïve (you pick the term) as you imply, they should in no freaking way have any sort of access to a voting booth. (I tend to think people are a lot smarter than you give them credit, and are consciously making the decision based on their own greed that they would rather have the short term benefits of cheap products and not worry about the long term consequences)

Over time I have come to the realization or distillation if you will that ONE of the differences between conservatives and liberals is that conservatives tend to think that most people are able and capable of basic thought processes and decision making, while liberals tend to think these decisions and the responsibility need to be taken over or ceded to the government.
Nice spin doctoring , rugs .the fact that corporations shut down viable profitable shops &factories. Then moved the entire operation off shore to Increase profit margins is of no political bias other than it happened mostly under conservatives in government.

[rugatika]

Nice spin doctoring , rugs .the fact that corporations shut down viable profitable shops &factories. Then moved the entire operation off shore to Increase profit margins is of no political bias other than it happened mostly under conservatives in government.


wrong

AND at any rate, the consumer is the ultimate decision maker what products he/she buys.

[C Taylor]

A while back I seen a Canadian flag key chain. Made in China!
Biggest problem is we consider ourselves to good to do the lowly Timmies jobs. Check out the hours that the orientals will put in at a gas station job. We have it in our heads that a 12 hr day is lots lol.

[sailor]

The United States has become so dependent on Chinese imports, however, that the F.D.A. may not be able to do much about the Chinese refusal. The crucial ingredients for nearly all antibiotics, steroids and many other lifesaving drugs are now made exclusively in China.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/15/world/asia/medicines-made-in-india-set-off-safety-worries.html?ref=health&_r=1
I wonder if those ingredients used for Generic only or for Brand name drugs too?

[fish gunner]

wrong

AND at any rate, the consumer is the ultimate decision maker what products he/she buys.

Wierd mike morer found a few companies that done just that. Under the bush admin . So.. how is this wrong. Please explain how I the consumer dictate whats on store shelves . Gmo products not being marked is a strong contention at the moment if corporation's win the fight how will consumers make informed choices.

[dantonsen]

wrong

AND at any rate, the consumer is the ultimate decision maker what products he/she buys.


Ya but soo many things are made in china now it leaves you with no choice in alot of instances. I wanted to go buy a coffee machine the other day and everything was from china.

Alot of the issue is lack of tarrifs etc to equalize the cheap labour edge foreign countries have. A company making 200 $ boots in canada is not going to give you that boot any cheaper when they start making it in china.

The best thing that can actually happen is the modernization of china.... once the wages rise enough they will no longer have cheap labour and this is already begining to happen. China also pays more for oil and much more for natural gas so they already have that strike against them too.

If the united states shale boom doesnt peter outand the usa gets in a big energy glut their efficiency and industrial productivity could wipe the rest of the planet off the map.


the talk of china owning usa debt is a joke too. China has a pile of worthless paper, the united states already borrowed the money. The federal reserve prints money to buy us treasuries these days, they dont need anyone to actually buy debt any more... The just buy their own debt and pay everyone elses coupon with printed money.

[rugatika]

Wierd mike morer found a few companies that done just that. Under the bush admin . So.. how is this wrong. Please explain how I the consumer dictate whats on store shelves . Gmo products not being marked is a strong contention at the moment if corporation's win the fight how will consumers make informed choices.

Is this a serious discussion anymore? You honestly have no idea how YOU as a consumer dictate what goes on store shelves?

[Big Daddy Badger]

That's your argument? That people are too stupid to know any better so government has to make decisions for them?

That's creepy. AND if that is really the case, then people need to be taught economics...even the most rudimentary of lessons in economics. Frankly, if these people you reference are as dumb/ignorant/naïve (you pick the term) as you imply, they should in no freaking way have any sort of access to a voting booth. (I tend to think people are a lot smarter than you give them credit, and are consciously making the decision based on their own greed that they would rather have the short term benefits of cheap products and not worry about the long term consequences)

Over time I have come to the realization or distillation if you will that ONE of the differences between conservatives and liberals is that conservatives tend to think that most people are able and capable of basic thought processes and decision making, while liberals tend to think these decisions and the responsibility need to be taken over or ceded to the government.

My points are that people regardless of their politics will gobble up whatever is offered especially when given no real choice.
Even when choice is available people will often go with the cheapest product because we are conditioned to behave that way.
And... that the average consumer out shopping is not weighingthe impact of their small purchase combined with the small purchases of tens of thousands of others because that is not tangible to them.
Besides... is not the government there to at least support the protection of consumers, jobs and our standard of living?

But it is tangible to a guy who is running a company and looking at the bottom line.
It is tangible to politicians do a better job of protecting corporations than voters and who deregulate and who enter into trade agreements.

Blame the consumer instead of Wallmart if you wish but to do so is to ignore the way that Wallmart has managed to secure success which is really a model for how corporstions have steamrolled opposition and eliminated consumer choice.

To deny these simple truths is to say that marketing experts know nothing about manipulation and they do...its a virtual science.

Free will is easily negated by lack of voice and opportunity.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Is this a serious discussion anymore? You honestly have no idea how YOU as a consumer dictate what goes on store shelves?

I don't know Rugs.
Was it ever?

You started the thread so you tell us.

Did you expect everyone here to agree with your premise and not tie it to the way corporations have started to act over the last 30 years or did you want everyone to disagree and try to legitimise the idea that China is nothing more than a shining example of successful capitalism?

Are there too many products imported from China?
If so why?
What is the practicable solution to this?

Seems to me that you started the thread to troll for the predictable answers that you did recieve so that you could then argue about it while carefully avoiding having to offer up anything other than an opposing view.

[Bushrat]

What is the practicable solution to this?


Deconstruct the corporate rulership of this planet. We have morphed from government representing the people to corporate entities with too much influence manipulating the government for their own gains and not representing the peoples interests. This needs to stop

[rugatika]

Ya but soo many things are made in china now it leaves you with no choice in alot of instances. I wanted to go buy a coffee machine the other day and everything was from china.

Alot of the issue is lack of tarrifs etc to equalize the cheap labour edge foreign countries have. A company making 200 $ boots in canada is not going to give you that boot any cheaper when they start making it in china.

The best thing that can actually happen is the modernization of china.... once the wages rise enough they will no longer have cheap labour and this is already begining to happen. China also pays more for oil and much more for natural gas so they already have that strike against them too.

If the united states shale boom doesnt peter outand the usa gets in a big energy glut their efficiency and industrial productivity could wipe the rest of the planet off the map.


the talk of china owning usa debt is a joke too. China has a pile of worthless paper, the united states already borrowed the money. The federal reserve prints money to buy us treasuries these days, they dont need anyone to actually buy debt any more... The just buy their own debt and pay everyone elses coupon with printed money.

I just bought a coffee machine made in the Netherlands. technivorm. The best drip coffee maker in the world. Took a couple minutes of googling. Transcend coffee right here in Edmonton is the importer..


I do agree with you that China, like most countries that becom industrialized will eventually become more of a middle class country and wages will increase.


Oh, and for what it's worth, I actually agree with a lot of you that corporations are becoming too big and have too much power, just like I think governments have become too big and have too much power. I just don't think that the companies are doing anything that we the people aren't giving our tacit consent to. Everyone says they have no choice, but we do....it's just that we're too often too lazy or too greedy to seek out those other choices. Not making any judgements, as it happens to me too, sometimes it's easier to stay at a hotel that is owned by a large chain than to seek out a mom and pop hotel that is just as good. etc etc etc. We as the consumer/voter get the companies/government we deserve.


BDB, what I was trying to do was get people to think about how their purchasing habits affect the very things they often complain about. Some people are happy to complain about it and then blame the big corporations while they happily scoop up every Made in China item they can. Often a couple minutes spent googling and maybe a few extra dollars up front will get them a better quality product with more value AND support a smaller or local company.

[Wild&Free]

Good post Rugatika, though I kind of find humour in how you don't want to buy goods from communist china, but will buy goods from socialist Netherlands.

Me, I'm all for supporting national economy over international trade, just wish more people would vote to reflect on that value. Both major parties are in favour of breaking down trade barriers to ease the flow of goods and wealth for multinational corporations, at the expense of Canadian workers and consumers and our national sovereignty.

I do not oppose the idea of global governances and trade, just the way it's being implemented is very, very troubling. It's not about raising living standards globally, but depressing them in the developed world and restricting them in developing nations. In the meantime more and more wealth(access to resources and ability to influence decisions) is being concentrated into fewer and fewer hands.

Our ideals aren't much different when you boil it down IMO, just our methodology.

[Bushrat]

I do not oppose the idea of global governances and trade, just the way it's being implemented is very, very troubling. It's not about raising living standards globally, but depressing them in the developed world and restricting them in developing nations. In the meantime more and more wealth(access to resources and ability to influence decisions) is being concentrated into fewer and fewer hands

That's what bothers me most. The middle class of developed nations are being brought down to the level of third world, which will see a slight improvement in lifestyle for them but not up to the level of middle class of present developed nations. We are headed back to the days of serfdom, only difference is we will not be administered by kings and queens, dukes, earls, lords but rather controlled by corporate entities which control the wealth and already are today to quite a degree.

[fish gunner]

That's what bothers me most. The middle class of developed nations are being brought down to the level of third world, which will see a slight improvement in lifestyle for them but not up to the level of middle class of present developed nations. We are headed back to the days of serfdom, only difference is we will not be administered by kings and queens, dukes, earls, lords but rather controlled by corporate entities which control the wealth and already are today to quite a degree.

Winner winner give this guy a chicken dinner. :) less revenue in wages is the point of all of this .with a lifestyle of disposable everything. Followed by the single self serve life. When I first walked into crapkia and seen "your perfect 300sq'" I knew canada was also doomed. Once we get rid of the family farm /business and every one is contract employed the axe can be brought to bear and the scraps can be fought over by the lowest bidder . To bad really when my family first moved to this great nation my da saved up for a month bought a new car cash ,lol ,union made into the bargain. Now the car I could may be just afford on a monthes wages would not be worth the gas to run it. Why. In two words?

[Wild&Free]

That's what bothers me most. The middle class of developed nations are being brought down to the level of third world, which will see a slight improvement in lifestyle for them but not up to the level of middle class of present developed nations. We are headed back to the days of serfdom, only difference is we will not be administered by kings and queens, dukes, earls, lords but rather controlled by corporate entities which control the wealth and already are today to quite a degree.

So what can be done about it? Do we change the nature and structure of society, a liberal value, or do we promote more order and consistency, a conservative value?

The right left battle is a prime example of the Hegelian Dialect where small changes that maintain the status quo are used to pacify both sides.

[Map Maker]

We are headed back to the days of serfdom, only difference is we will not be administered by kings and queens, dukes, earls, lords but rather controlled by corporate entities which control the wealth and already are today to quite a degree.

I believe that as well.

The fastest way to prevent that from happening is to stop of the flow of power (money) from middle class to the corporations.

Increasing interest rates will reduce wasteful spending and curb the endless flow of funds (stock market) to the corporations.

The masses will have to take control of finances again and be forced to budget because excess borrowing rates will be crippling.

Corporations/banks will have to shrink size and industries will start propping up in North America again.

[Wild&Free]

I believe that as well.

The fastest way to prevent that from happening is to stop of the flow of power (money) from middle class to the corporations.

Increasing interest rates will reduce wasteful spending and curb the endless flow of funds (stock market) to the corporations.

The masses will have to take control of finances again and be forced to budget because excess borrowing rates will be crippling.

Corporations/banks will have to shrink size and industries will start propping up in North America again.


Raise interest rates... Would lead to more defaults and foreclosure giving banks more assets to resale and increase there wealth concentration while only those with access to credit and capital would be able to used deficit spending to better there position while those without access would fall future down the ladder...

It would not have the effect you desire from what I can see. Considering this corporate power consolidation started in the 70s and 80s when interest rates were much much higher.

The elimination or usury would go a long way to levelling he playing field. Either that or curtailing the use of compound interest as a start.

[Map Maker]

Raise interest rates... Would lead to more defaults and foreclosure giving banks more assets to resale and increase there wealth concentration .

I don't see it that way.
When the market crashed in 2009 and alot of jobs were lost in the US, some people couldn't pay their mortgages. Subsequently, banks had to take over those assets and a few large US banks had to file bankruptcy.

If the interest rates were to rise, it would be gradual and people would start locking in loans for longer and adjust.

With higher interest rates, people would start living within their means more and their debt would lower.
A $60,000 truck would cost $118,000 at 15% interest for 10 years. You would be forced to save at least 80% of that truck before you would be able to get a loan for it.
Thats the way it should be, instead of this zero down crap.

Ralph Klein proved it best when he made Alberta debt-free.
Alberta was the pride of Canada.
I think we all felt proud that day and Alberta was a powerhouse.
Every household should be the same.


Alberta declares itself debt-free

CBC News Posted: Jul 12, 2004 9:50 PM ET Last Updated: Jul 12, 2004 9:50 PM ET
Alberta is now debt-free, due in part to the high price of oil and gas.

"Today I'm very, very proud to announce that Alberta has slain its debt," Premier Ralph Klein said on Monday in Calgary.

"Never again will this government or the people of this province have to set aside another tax dollar on debt," Klein said.

"Those days are over and they're over for good, as far as my government is concerned, and if need be we will put in place legislation to make sure that we never have a debt again," he added.

The province eliminated its $3-billion debt by using a big surplus in this year's budget from high oil and gas revenues. In June, the province said its 2003-2004 budget surplus stood at $4 billion.

Ten years ago, Alberta's debt stood at $23 billion. Almost all of that debt was run up between 1982 and 1992, when oil prices crashed.

A rebound in prices, however, has led to big provincial surpluses since the mid-1990s.

The move makes Alberta the only province with no debt. The last province to say it was debt-free was British Columbia in the late 1960s.

[OldRussian]

We perpetuate it as consumers not willing to pay a premium for domestic products made by fairly paid workers.

[fish gunner]

We perpetuate it as consumers not willing to pay a premium for domestic products made by fairly paid workers.

An other winner. Dont want pay our own wages for a product. Timmies coffee should cost 3 $ the kid at the counter geting paid fairly.

[sarahfaye]

It is on my list to see but haven't got to it yet. Supposed to be a real eye opener. Any one have a report ?

[5Lgreenback]

I feel that both consumers and corporations are at fault. That being said, corps have done a fantastic job of putting products out there and doing their best to hide the true cost of putting that product on the shelf. That doesn't just apply to products made it china.

And how many people out there actually have the time (or desire) to research the countless day to day products purchased and their history. Especially when you can be cheerleading for your chosen political party and cutting down other ones, or countless other distractions. :)

[5Lgreenback]

It is on my list to see but haven't got to it yet. Supposed to be a real eye opener. Any one have a report ?

I started it, couldn't get through it, it was pretty blatant propaganda that insults peoples intelligence.

[barsik]

I just bought a coffee machine made in the Netherlands. technivorm. The best drip coffee maker in the world. Took a couple minutes of googling. Transcend coffee right here in Edmonton is the importer..


I do agree with you that China, like most countries that becom industrialized will eventually become more of a middle class country and wages will increase.


Oh, and for what it's worth, I actually agree with a lot of you that corporations are becoming too big and have too much power, just like I think governments have become too big and have too much power. I just don't think that the companies are doing anything that we the people aren't giving our tacit consent to. Everyone says they have no choice, but we do....it's just that we're too often too lazy or too greedy to seek out those other choices. Not making any judgements, as it happens to me too, sometimes it's easier to stay at a hotel that is owned by a large chain than to seek out a mom and pop hotel that is just as good. etc etc etc. We as the consumer/voter get the companies/government we deserve.


BDB, what I was trying to do was get people to think about how their purchasing habits affect the very things they often complain about. Some people are happy to complain about it and then blame the big corporations while they happily scoop up every Made in China item they can. Often a couple minutes spent googling and maybe a few extra dollars up front will get them a better quality product with more value AND support a smaller or local company.


I am glad you were able to find a coffeemaker that wasn't manufactured in China. Could you please do me a favor and find me a manufacturer of industrial bearings? All of my previous supply has dried up and now the only source it seems is China, and the quality of their product is s**t. I would gladly pay triple for bearings that will last for more than a few days or weeks. thanks in advance.

[Wild&Free]

I don't see it that way.
When the market crashed in 2009 and alot of jobs were lost in the US, some people couldn't pay their mortgages. Subsequently, banks had to take over those assets and a few large US banks had to file bankruptcy.

If the interest rates were to rise, it would be gradual and people would start locking in loans for longer and adjust.

With higher interest rates, people would start living within their means more and their debt would lower.
A $60,000 truck would cost $118,000 at 15% interest for 10 years. You would be forced to save at least 80% of that truck before you would be able to get a loan for it.
Thats the way it should be, instead of this zero down crap.

Ralph Klein proved it best when he made Alberta debt-free.
Alberta was the pride of Canada.
I think we all felt proud that day and Alberta was a powerhouse.
Every household should be the same.


Alberta declares itself debt-free

CBC News Posted: Jul 12, 2004 9:50 PM ET Last Updated: Jul 12, 2004 9:50 PM ET
Alberta is now debt-free, due in part to the high price of oil and gas.

"Today I'm very, very proud to announce that Alberta has slain its debt," Premier Ralph Klein said on Monday in Calgary.

"Never again will this government or the people of this province have to set aside another tax dollar on debt," Klein said.

"Those days are over and they're over for good, as far as my government is concerned, and if need be we will put in place legislation to make sure that we never have a debt again," he added.

The province eliminated its $3-billion debt by using a big surplus in this year's budget from high oil and gas revenues. In June, the province said its 2003-2004 budget surplus stood at $4 billion.

Ten years ago, Alberta's debt stood at $23 billion. Almost all of that debt was run up between 1982 and 1992, when oil prices crashed.

A rebound in prices, however, has led to big provincial surpluses since the mid-1990s.

The move makes Alberta the only province with no debt. The last province to say it was debt-free was British Columbia in the late 1960s.

your reference doesn't support your argument. Alberta went debt free due to rising oil prices, not high interest. plus Canada is more then just Alberta.

[molly]

Guess who holds most of the American National debt? :D They just have to call in the loans and she'll be done.

Grizz

pretty sure that's not true.

Social Security controls about 40% of outstanding bonds, and private pension funds another ~20%. US government pays interest to these institutions there by ensuring people like my grandparents aren't in the poor house.

China holds onto a few trillion worth of debt, but the US has more then enough assets to cover that.

Here is a link to an article about this. China IS the U.S.'s BIGGEST foreign creditor. But this could negatively impact China if the U.S. defaults. BUT, the U.S. owes almost as much to Japan! And $13 trillion to others, mostly itself.

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-we-owe-federal-debt-to-2013-10

[Wild&Free]

Here is a link to an article about this. China IS the U.S.'s BIGGEST foreign creditor. But this could negatively impact China if the U.S. defaults. BUT, the U.S. owes almost as much to Japan! And $13 trillion to others, mostly itself.

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-we-owe-federal-debt-to-2013-10

sure, in terms of forgien creditors China holds the most but it is still less then what social security and private pension funds by about half.