Humminbird 859ci HD DI vs 899ci HD SI combo

[The Reel Deal]

Pretty much set on the humminbird so I can use AutoChart

Looking for your thoughts on side imaging. Is it worth it, how much do you use it, is it a must have, game changer?

Not offence to Lawrance guys, but I'm not interested in sending my data away and have to pay for a map I created.

Also If you have experience with these units please do share!

[huntsfurfish]

yes it is/can be a game changer.

Go to the 999 series if you can. Comes with the hi def side imaging transducer. 899 has 455hz only. HD has 455 and 800hz. Plus bigger screen.

If you do go with the 899, don't open the transducer package and you can do an upgrade to the HD ducer(price difference).

Edit: Have 2 Humminbird 1198's with iLink, 2 GPS HS receivers. Hope to get Autochart Pro when it comes out.

Have Lowrance HDS 10, HDS 8, HDS 5 and an HDS 9Touch. With LSS1 and LSS2 modules(side scan).

I am a believer in side scan!

[huntsfurfish]

Humminbird version $250.00 US for pro, $200.00 for reg version of AutoChart.

Lowrance is about $100.00 per year.

Either way you will have to pay.:)

[The Reel Deal]

999 sounds nice, just too impatient to save up for it haha.

[huntsfurfish]

No problem, just remember to contact Humminbird before you open the transducer bag. They will have you send it to them and you will need to pay the difference and maybe shipping to get the HD ducer(worth it).

ps/edit: they will not exchange if the bag has been opened.

[badger]

I am interested in the Autochart software as well, for my 858 HD DI. Some of the reviews allude to the software requiring that there be a zero line (lake edge) already on the mapping data for the contouring to work. Before I buy the SD card, I am going to confirm this. None of the lakes I fish in BC are on the existing Lakemaster charts, hence no zero line.

[Lambo]

I like my Lowrance. You should get one too Mr. Reel Deal!

[Mudslide]

Autochart has a zero depth line for every body of water in North America. It's a huge step forward for Canadian anglers.

[EZM]

Those Humminbirds are outstanding units.

The side imaging is magic when in deeper water.

Imagine trolling for rainbows or lakers and seeing a school of fish 250 feet to your left and having time to turn your boat and set your rigger depth.

results are guaranteed ...

[The Reel Deal]

I like my Lowrance. You should get one too Mr. Reel Deal!

Pipe down Lambo!

[The Reel Deal]

Those Humminbirds are outstanding units.

The side imaging is magic when in deeper water.

Imagine trolling for rainbows or lakers and seeing a school of fish 250 feet to your left and having time to turn your boat and set your rigger depth.

results are guaranteed ...

Ok I want side imagining now

[Hunter Trav]

yes it is/can be a game changer.

Go to the 999 series if you can. Comes with the hi def side imaging transducer. 899 has 455hz only. HD has 455 and 800hz. Plus bigger screen.

If you do go with the 899, don't open the transducer package and you can do an upgrade to the HD ducer(price difference).

Edit: Have 2 Humminbird 1198's with iLink, 2 GPS HS receivers. Hope to get Autochart Pro when it comes out.

Have Lowrance HDS 10, HDS 8, HDS 5 and an HDS 9Touch. With LSS1 and LSS2 modules(side scan).

I am a believer in side scan!

Geebus man, how many boats do you have?? Thats a whole lotta fish finding ability...let me know if your ever getting rid of any of those HDS units...;)

[Walleyedude]

The cost of the Lowrance/Humminbird mapping software programs is a wash, or at least it will be in the near future. There are some great promotions running right now for Insight Genesis as well, including free subscriptions with the purchase of several different sonar units.

Lowrance is about to launch the public data version of Insight Genesis which will be very similar to how Autocharts works. It will have merged map data created from all of the publicly uploaded sonar data that has been submitted to date, and will be available to all Insight Genesis subscribers.

One key advantage of Insight Genesis is that it only produces maps from actual sonar data, they do not use interpolation software to fill in the gaps by "guessing", so there is no inaccurate contour data on the maps. It's all legitimate 1 ft contour depth resolution and you know exactly which areas have coverage and which don't.

I just wanted to get that info out there for the Lowrance guys.

[EZM]

One key advantage of Insight Genesis is that it only produces maps from actual sonar data, they do not use interpolation software to fill in the gaps by "guessing", so there is no inaccurate contour data on the maps. It's all legitimate 1 ft contour depth resolution and you know exactly which areas have coverage and which don't.

I just wanted to get that info out there for the Lowrance guys.

Keep in mind this is ONLY an advantage if you have traveled and sonar logged in a grid for the entire lake.

I like to grid and overlay the shorelines and areas of the lake I fish - the middle of the lake, if it displays the default chart depths is just fine ......

Oh wait ........... I can travel the entire lake with with the auto chart too and have accurate contours too ........

I change my mind ..............

There is no advantage whatsoever is there?

I just wanted to get that info out for the humminbird guys and the guys who want the FACTS.

both do the exact same thing don't they? :sHa_shakeshout:

[Walleyedude]

Keep in mind this is ONLY an advantage if you have traveled and sonar logged in a grid for the entire lake.

I like to grid and overlay the shorelines and areas of the lake I fish - the middle of the lake, if it displays the default chart depths is just fine ......

Oh wait ........... I can travel the entire lake with with the auto chart too and have accurate contours too ........

I change my mind ..............

There is no advantage whatsoever is there?

I just wanted to get that info out for the humminbird guys and the guys who want the FACTS.

both do the exact same thing don't they? :sHa_shakeshout:

They do and they don't, recognizing the differences depends on how well you understand exactly how each program goes about producing the maps.

Insight Genesis creates detailed contours only where supported by actual sonar data. The remainder of the map is shown at the resolution of the currently available public data - the standard map you'll see on your map chip.

Autochart uses interpolation software to infill the blank spaces of the map with high res contours. I guess that could be viewed as a positive by some, but it means you're never quite sure what's real and what's computer generated, or in effect, where you have actual data and where you don't. The fewer the data points, the more software manipulation, the less reliable and accurate the map is. Kind of like the difference between 2D seismic and 3D seismic for those that have worked with seismic data.

The advantages to Insight Genesis as I see them are the absolute reliability of the map data you're creating and the ability to easily see where the holes are in your map coverage so you can focus on infilling the blank spots.

I'm just presenting the info, and yes, the facts, as I understand them so everyone can make their own decisions. They're both good programs and way better than any mapping currently available.

P.S. Anyone see the new Elite 7 CHIRP unit Lowrance released today? Very cool. I've been looking at the CHIRP transducers for a while now, definitely the wave of the future.

[EZM]

They do and they don't, recognizing the differences depends on how well you understand exactly how each program goes about producing the maps.

Insight Genesis creates detailed contours only where supported by actual sonar data. The remainder of the map is shown at the resolution of the currently available public data - the standard map you'll see on your map chip.

Autochart uses interpolation software to infill the blank spaces of the map with high res contours. I guess that could be viewed as a positive by some, but it means you're never quite sure what's real and what's computer generated, or in effect, where you have actual data and where you don't. The fewer the data points, the more software manipulation, the less reliable and accurate the map is. Kind of like the difference between 2D seismic and 3D seismic for those that have worked with seismic data.

The advantages to Insight Genesis as I see them are the absolute reliability of the map data you're creating and the ability to easily see where the holes are in your map coverage so you can focus on infilling the blank spots.

I'm just presenting the info, and yes, the facts, as I understand them so everyone can make their own decisions. They're both good programs and way better than any mapping currently available.

P.S. Anyone see the new Elite 7 CHIRP unit Lowrance released today? Very cool. I've been looking at the CHIRP transducers for a while now, definitely the wave of the future.

The AutoChart uses the same overlay technology actually. If you do the research, the same company, prior to Johnson Outdoors purchase of the "super group" ( Minnkota, Humminbird and Canon ) also purchased the technology for this feature which was previously privately licensed.

If you research the AutoChart it can be overlayed completely, not at all, or as a image on top of Lakemaster, Google or Navionics charts according to a 1% to 99% transparency.

Humminbird PC and other aftermarket tools can make this a powerful tool for a fisherman or fisherman/techy.

It can also operate in 2d and 3d - so your final analogy isn't a fair comparison.

Either way ......... they both are great tools but the technology is the same. The features seem to give neither product any distinct advantage in any way.

Pick the unit you like ....... today the competition is driving technological advances, at lower prices and WE FISHERMEN are the true winners in this war.

[huntsfurfish]

I will give the edge in pricing to HB/Autochart on the pricing though.

One time fee of 200/250 dollars vs Lowrance 99 dollars a year.

Just don't tell EZM.:)

[The Reel Deal]

Fishing costs me a fortune every year. A subscription is just outta the question. Lawrance might have a better unit, but for that reason alone I have no interest to make a comparison.

[EZM]

I will give the edge in pricing to HB/Autochart on the pricing though.

One time fee of 200/250 dollars vs Lowrance 99 dollars a year.

Just don't tell EZM.:)

I wasn't listening anyways ..... :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq3LSWraOkk

[Mudslide]

I've been using Insight Genesis with my Lowrance touch units and to be honest it needs some tweaking. It's a new program so I expect they will be doing just that in the near future. It does not render the same on my unit as it does on the computer. The depth shading looks fantastic on my computer but is gone when you put the chip in the unit. Things I would like to see are better rendering on my unit as well as the ability to toggle between bottom hardness, vegetation and shaded imagery on the fly. Currently you need to generate a separate map for each feature. Not good! I also want it to work with the new Motor Guide trolling motor the same way the AutoChart works with the Minn Kota link. (I think that's in the works already) I also like the idea of being able to generate a chart off my laptop while I'm on the water if need be instead of having to send it in and wait for the results.

I already have a Terrova link which I am going to pair with a 788 that I picked up, so I'm definitely going to pick up the Autochart as well this Spring. I think Lakemaster bought out Dr Depth and just tweaked it so the product is a little more developed than the Insight but I agree with EZM both look like great products and the competition between the two is great for the consumer. BTW don't count Garmin out just yet they are stepping up their game as well. Then there is Navionics, are they going to take this lying down? I doubt it. Interesting times, for sure.

[EZM]

The best news really is that we are getting cooler toys and better tools for less money.

I was using Dr Depth with my Birds and exporting waypoint and trails to generate maps - the new software will save me hours and do it all without an extra trip for SD card back and forth.

I will be shelling our $200 to make it happen ........... I'm lazy.

[Walleyedude]

The AutoChart uses the same overlay technology actually. If you do the research, the same company, prior to Johnson Outdoors purchase of the "super group" ( Minnkota, Humminbird and Canon ) also purchased the technology for this feature which was previously privately licensed.

If you research the AutoChart it can be overlayed completely, not at all, or as a image on top of Lakemaster, Google or Navionics charts according to a 1% to 99% transparency.

Humminbird PC and other aftermarket tools can make this a powerful tool for a fisherman or fisherman/techy.

It can also operate in 2d and 3d - so your final analogy isn't a fair comparison.

Either way ......... they both are great tools but the technology is the same. The features seem to give neither product any distinct advantage in any way.

Pick the unit you like ....... today the competition is driving technological advances, at lower prices and WE FISHERMEN are the true winners in this war.

I guess I'm not explaining myself clearly, because while your responses are correct, they're aren't related to what I'm trying to explain.

2D vs. 3D seismic is not about two vs. three dimensions, it's about the manner in which the seismic data is acquired, and therefore the ability to use the data to create accurate maps. It's single lines vs. a detailed grid. Bottom line is that more data points equals better maps. Google 3D seismic if you're interested, it's a pretty incredible tool for imaging the subsurface.

These advances in are mapping are pretty incredible compared to the early days of using Dr. Depth and muddling around with all the different software programs and file types. Regardless of which one you choose, make sure you're taking advantage of them.

[Walleyedude]

I've been using Insight Genesis with my Lowrance touch units and to be honest it needs some tweaking. It's a new program so I expect they will be doing just that in the near future. It does not render the same on my unit as it does on the computer. The depth shading looks fantastic on my computer but is gone when you put the chip in the unit. Things I would like to see are better rendering on my unit as well as the ability to toggle between bottom hardness, vegetation and shaded imagery on the fly. Currently you need to generate a separate map for each feature. Not good! I also want it to work with the new Motor Guide trolling motor the same way the AutoChart works with the Minn Kota link. (I think that's in the works already) I also like the idea of being able to generate a chart off my laptop while I'm on the water if need be instead of having to send it in and wait for the results.

I already have a Terrova link which I am going to pair with a 788 that I picked up, so I'm definitely going to pick up the Autochart as well this Spring. I think Lakemaster bought out Dr Depth and just tweaked it so the product is a little more developed than the Insight but I agree with EZM both look like great products and the competition between the two is great for the consumer. BTW don't count Garmin out just yet they are stepping up their game as well. Then there is Navionics, are they going to take this lying down? I doubt it. Interesting times, for sure.

I completely agree about Insight Genesis being a work in progress. There's lots of room to improve the program and the things you pointed out are things I'd love to see them get to sooner rather than later. I'm not sure I'll ever get to the point of taking a laptop on the water with me though lol.

I'm guessing the link to the Motorguide Xi5 is coming soon. Much like the IPilot Link though, it'll have limited value with the current mapping and will require a link to Insight Genesis to be of much use to us up here.

[The Reel Deal]

The winner is...
899ci

Unless anyone can chime in with their negative experiences with side imaging

[The Reel Deal]

Retract my last statement.
Took the plunge and went with the 999ci. I figured the case on the 899 and 999 is the same size, so if I'm gonna clutter my dash I may as we'll get the biggest screen and better ducer. $1575 with tax and shipping from BPS no complaints.... unless it won't fit on my dash :)

[bobalong]

The winner is...
899ci

Unless anyone can chime in with their negative experiences with side imaging

With the new Autochart Pro (tentative software upgrade for older units is not suppose to be released until July 2014?), the ability to display contours in 3D should remove a lot of the screen interpretation challenge that was experienced with the standard side imaging.

I also like the Autochart Pro idea, you can update your mapping yourself, immediately, you don't have to send it to the sonar company for upgrading. With Autochart Pro, the mapping you make is yours only, unless you choose to share it with someone else.

[huntsfurfish]

I will give the edge in pricing to HB/Autochart on the pricing though.

One time fee of 200/250 dollars vs Lowrance 99 dollars a year.

Just don't tell EZM.:)



Had to quote myself:).

After re-evaluating. It could be a wash. For 99.00 in one year, you can do a lot of charting.:) That may be enough for many people out there.

This is why I don't like sponsorships. I look forward to trying both. And it would be awesome if I can rig it so I can do both at the same time.:thinking-006::snapoutofit:

[huntsfurfish]

With the new Autochart Pro (tentative software upgrade for older units is not suppose to be released until July 2014?), the ability to display contours in 3D should remove a lot of the screen interpretation challenge that was experienced with the standard side imaging.

I also like the Autochart Pro idea, you can update your mapping yourself, immediately, you don't have to send it to the sonar company for upgrading. With Autochart Pro, the mapping you make is yours only, unless you choose to share it with someone else.

Looks like that is correct:(