New Hunter, Female.

[Seabass.270]

And so I've entered a mans world. I have been accepted and resented already, and last November was only my first season. It was a great season. When I first met my husband, I was fascinated with the prospect that he hunted, and was very excited to have the opportunity to be involved. And now I'm hooked. So now that I know i want to continue on this marvelous adventure, and am able to pull the trigger on something, I better start edumacating myself.

I'm not trying to start a thread for first time hunters, but more for must have gear for the (female) hunter. (If that's a thing) Your friendly, experienced, advice, other blogs or forums, websites, and groups that you may know that can help is greatly appreciated.

[Fisherpeak]

Well,congrats!You will never regret being a hunter.Sorry about the resentment,seems kinda stupid.You will need the same gear a man does,except maybe a rifle with manageable recoil.My deer rifle is a .243 Browning lever,I am a good sized guy but I love that little rifle,low recoil,accurate and fun as hell to shoot.

[Tox]

Welcome I don't think I can offer much but a thick skin usually helps here. Don't know why someone would resent you. The more racks in the field the better.LOL

[twofifty]

Well,congrats!You will never regret being a hunter.Sorry about the resentment,seems kinda stupid.You will need the same gear a man does,except maybe a rifle with manageable recoil.My deer rifle is a .243 Browning lever,I am a good sized guy but I love that little rifle,low recoil,accurate and fun as hell to shoot.

Words to hunt by.

I'm an average sized man but not especially fond of heavy recoil. My deer rifle is a 5.5 lb 260Rem Savage: easy to carry, low recoil, accurate enough, and like Fisherpeak's .243 it's fun as hell to shoot.

As for other gear think of the worst weather that your hunting area can throw at you and dress accordingly. The goal is to stay dry and not get chilled.
A small pack is handy for an extra warm or waterproof layer(s), warm hat & gloves, fire starting stuff, etc. There are threads hereabouts that list other essentials.

[elkdump]

I helped a petite young lady about 100 pounds soaking wet, interested in learning the "how-too's" about mule deer hunting and moose hunting, so I took 3 rifles along for her to try out with regards to fit for size,weight and recoil levels, she was 3rd year RCMP so she was "savvy in safety and loading procedures" but when offered a Mod 94 Win in 30-30 or a 7mm-08 Remington, she refused those "2 girly guns" and latched on to my .338 Winchester Mag bolt Action 700 with a Khales scope,

now with 275gr Speer hand-loads she proceeded to burn up about a dozen rounds shooting at a 200 yard target ! she did very well as for marksmanship, but every time she fired the .338 magnum, the dust would fly from her cammo pants and jacket, :sHa_sarcasticlol:

she shot her first muley 4x4 buck that trip, got arms deep field dressing it, we made many trips to hun that fall, she took a blk bear and a moose that fall, and proved more dedicated than some men Ive had similar encounters with,

[Mike_W]

Buy binoculars first and make it decent set at $350 plus they are your most used piece of hunting gear whether rifle hunting, bow hunting or scouting.

After that determine what kind of hunting your husband will take you out for, if its going to be waterfowl, upland, or big game.
If any combination a 12 gauge pump is a good multi purpose for both waterfowl and upland and I would pair that with a 7mm-08 rifle with a 3-9 or 3-10x40mm rifle scope again don't cheap out on any optics look to spend $350 plus on a rifle scope.

The 7mm-08 is a nice low recoiling rifle that is flat shooting and big enough for elk or moose if that opportunity ever offers itself.

Next thing is a good pair of waterproof boots I prefer gortex as it is also breathable.
Clothing..... don't get all caught up in the camo craze as a rifle hunter camo is overrated (although I do like a pretty woman in camo as much as anyone!!) you are better off with lighter colors (camo included) and quiet materials like fleece cotton and wool any material that makes any noise when rubbed against itself isn't worth buying.
The good part about camo clothing is the better quality stuff is made for the sport fits good, is quiet and comfortable. There are camo companies specific to women and there body shapes.

Enjoy and all the best!!

[Seabass.270]

Well my husband shoots a Browning X-bolt .270 and that's what I took my white-tail with. Since we are very similar in size it fits just perfect for the two of us, but we definitely need a back up rifle, or i need my own. So we'll look for something in the same caliber but something a bit easier on the wallet. Unless we can find something in a larger caliber but that won't kill my shoulder. The 7mm-08 did come up in our conversations.

she refused those "2 girly guns" and latched on to my .338 Winchester Mag bolt Action 700 lol i'm not afraid to have a 'girly gun' as long as it can get the job done. It would definitely take some working up to, to be able to handle something bigger.

I just want to make sure I will be better prepared for this season, and have the basics set out. Thank you all for you advice so far. Great to have the help/support.

[Rather Be Hunting]

Welcome.
Enjoy your hunts.:)
RBH

[0rion]

Most of my gear has been a bit of trial and error over the last few years. The guns I've settled on are a 270 for deer, a 12ga pump for geese/ducks. I've tried a few others but these are the ones I love now. The rifle is nice and light, so easy to carry around without my arms getting tired and I don't notice any recoil. I normally have a bipod on my pack too. I've filled my deer tags all but one year since I've started. Would like to start hunting some bigger game in the future, so I guess I'll let you know how that goes after next fall!

As far as clothing/boots/etc goes, my boots are Irish Setters. I've got the warmest ones I could find (I get cold feet easy) and they're waterproof. They're fine most days. If it's real cold I'll throw in some foot warmers. Get some decent base layers and as far as outer layers go, my best reviews would go to anything she safari makes. I got the C4 jacket this year and loved it. Nice and warm and really quiet. I tried a couple men's jackets in small sizes, but they're always too bulky in the shoulders and a pain in butt when you're trying to get your gun up in a hurry (i.e. popping out of a coffin blind and getting the butt of your gun tangled in your jacket = massive irritation). I'm 5'2" so the ladies stuff just fits better and I'm not always tripping on pant legs and ripping pants on barbed wire because they're hanging too low. Let me know if there's anything else you're looking for. I've tried a ton of stuff and wasted a lot of money on stuff that didn't work well for me. I might have some more advice for ya!

[0rion]

oh! and stay away from anything overall/coverall related. Makes it awfully chilly when you have to strip right down for pee breaks! lol

[stemorholake]

Welcome I don't think I can offer much but a thick skin usually helps here. Don't know why someone would resent you. The more racks in the field the better.LOL

The more racks the better!!! That as funny.

Yes welcome to this wonderful world.

[Seabass.270]

I got the C4 jacket this year and loved it. Nice and warm and really quiet. I tried a couple men's jackets in small sizes, but they're always too bulky in the shoulders and a pain in butt when you're trying to get your gun up in a hurry (i.e. popping out of a coffin blind and getting the butt of your gun tangled in your jacket = massive irritation).

That's a very good point, I don't think that occurred to me yet. I can usually fit small men's but I'll have to look out for that aspect. I see a lot of SHE, and wondered on the quality. Next time I go shopping I will be trying some on.

Another question I should ask too, is apart from the big name stores, what outfitters might you suggest for someone in the Camrose to Red Deer to Devon area. I don't mind a good drive to support the local mom 'n' pop shops.

[Flatlandliver]

Another question I should ask too, is apart from the big name stores, what outfitters might you suggest for someone in the Camrose to Red Deer to Devon area. I don't mind a good drive to support the local mom 'n' pop shops.[/QUOTE]

If you get down to Airdrie drop in at Two Guys Hunting and check out the Sitka stuff.

[0rion]

I'm from Lacombe so I try to keep it to Red Deer when I can. I got my gun at Sportsmen's Den, my pack and bipod from Wolverine, binos from Canadian Tire, but I tend to run in to Edmonton and go to Cabelas for anything you actually wear. Better selection, more sizes.

[Chuck_Wagon]

Hi Seabass.270, might be fun to hook up with likeminded women at Alberta hunter educations Outdoor Women’s program.

https://protrain.hs.llnwd.net/e1/sitefiles/319/Documents/OWP%202014%20Registration%20Package3.pdf

[58thecat]

Keep a smile on your face and your aim true, looks like your on the right track:)

[FallAirFever]

Buy binoculars first and make it decent set at $350 plus they are your most used piece of hunting gear whether rifle hunting, bow hunting or scouting.

After that determine what kind of hunting your husband will take you out for, if its going to be waterfowl, upland, or big game.
If any combination a 12 gauge pump is a good multi purpose for both waterfowl and upland and I would pair that with a 7mm-08 rifle with a 3-9 or 3-10x40mm rifle scope again don't cheap out on any optics look to spend $350 plus on a rifle scope.

The 7mm-08 is a nice low recoiling rifle that is flat shooting and big enough for elk or moose if that opportunity ever offers itself.

Next thing is a good pair of waterproof boots I prefer gortex as it is also breathable.
Clothing..... don't get all caught up in the camo craze as a rifle hunter camo is overrated (although I do like a pretty woman in camo as much as anyone!!) you are better off with lighter colors (camo included) and quiet materials like fleece cotton and wool any material that makes any noise when rubbed against itself isn't worth buying.
The good part about camo clothing is the better quality stuff is made for the sport fits good, is quiet and comfortable. There are camo companies specific to women and there body shapes.

Enjoy and all the best!!

Welcome, there is some great advice here^^^^^. As well as the rest of the thread.
For camo there is some great Alberta made camo available through Ravenwear. They are located just east of Carloine. Very nice people to deal with and they will custom make your camo so you know it will fit. I have some hats, gloves, a jacket and a vest from them. It is not cheap stuff and very warm.

Good luck on your journey as a hunter the more women and families we have involved the better off the heritage of hunting is!!

[expmler]

Another thing you must have is a quality hunting knife, and learn how to keep it sharp.

[Seabass.270]

Another thing you must have is a quality hunting knife, and learn how to keep it sharp.

I've tried several different ways of knife sharpening but haven't quite found a perfect technique. Better yet, I'm not sure the best way to keep a sharp edge out in the field.

[Flatlandliver]

I've tried several different ways of knife sharpening but haven't quite found a perfect technique. Better yet, I'm not sure the best way to keep a sharp edge out in the field.

Use one of these and you won't have to worry about sharpening it. Just don't pry or twist the blade.http://www.havalon.com/skinning-knife-piranta-camo-xti-60aprcamo.html

[FallAirFever]

Use one of these and you won't have to worry about sharpening it. Just don't pry or twist the blade.http://www.havalon.com/skinning-knife-piranta-camo-xti-60aprcamo.html

I have heard good things about those. But I bought one of these:
http://www.outdooredge.com/category-s/31.htm
Havent used it yet but look forward to giving it a try.

I also really like my Cutco with the double D edge:
http://www.cutco.ca/products/product.jsp?itemGroup=5719
very tough knife with a great warrenty that really stays sharp.

Once you have used it on a few animals and after hunting season send it in for a sharpening.

[Corpus]

With all due respect there are a gazillion knives better than Cutco crap, I don't get the popularity nor the hype surrounding that brand. They use basic 440(a) steel, which is AUS6 equivalent. Which means it's what cheap axes and throwing knives are made from. I may sound like a "steel snob" but I'm not. I am, or try to be a realist. I tend to favour high carbon steels. 1095, 52100, O1, A2, 1085, etc. All are easily sharpened in the field. All hold an edge far better than the aforementioned crap. I'll leave it at that.

As for stainless steels...Right now, my fave stainless is a Swedish steel designed and made for razors. It's called AEB-L, with good temper such as 60-61RC, it's a wonderful steel that's tough and easily brought back to shaving sharp with a brief stropping. I own a Gavko Barong that's razor thin and just as sharp. It's pretty tough from the preliminary testing I've done.

S35VN makes a good fixed blade steel, CPM-154 ( similar to 154CM, but is Crucibles particle metallurgy steel for a more finer grain), CPM-D2 (can be a bitch to sharpen, especially when re-profiling to a finer edge from a thicker edge), S3V (super tough and has good edge retention), list goes on and on.....Actually, s3V is a carbon steel, but IIRC, pretty resistant to corrosion.

As to the OP, a good budget gun would be the Ruger American - also note Ruger has an American stainless version that's about ~100.00 or more. Hope to see it in Canada soon.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I just may indeed be a steel snob. Oh well.

[coyotekiller]

Welcome I don't think I can offer much but a thick skin usually helps here. Don't know why someone would resent you. The more racks in the field the better.LOL

Lol:sHa_sarcasticlol: good luck in your hunting adventures :)

[Rob S]

And so I've entered a mans world. I have been accepted and resented already, and last November was only my first season. It was a great season. When I first met my husband, I was fascinated with the prospect that he hunted, and was very excited to have the opportunity to be involved. And now I'm hooked. So now that I know i want to continue on this marvelous adventure, and am able to pull the trigger on something, I better start edumacating myself.

I'm not trying to start a thread for first time hunters, but more for must have gear for the (female) hunter. (If that's a thing) Your friendly, experienced, advice, other blogs or forums, websites, and groups that you may know that can help is greatly appreciated.

Shouldnt you be asking your "man"?

If I went to Lasenza asking girls what I looked good in, safe to assume the missus wouldnt be very happy.

[Seabass.270]

Shouldnt you be asking your "man"?

If I went to Lasenza asking girls what I looked good in, safe to assume the missus wouldnt be very happy.


Lol, me and my man talk about it all the time, what our next purchase might be. But i was trying to see if there would be other woman on here with some tips. And I know my man wouldn't mind me trying to gain more knowledge from people who share the same passion. (He can't know everything)

But hey, if you like trying on stuff at Lasenza, that's your own thing. Your missus might have different concerns though.

[twofifty]

touché

[0rion]

Shouldnt you be asking your "man"?

If I went to Lasenza asking girls what I looked good in, safe to assume the missus wouldnt be very happy.

...some husbands don't instantly jump on the jealousy bandwagon. Plus lingerie shopping and hunting advice are apples and oranges. I think it seems quite reasonable to come on to a hunting forum to ask for hunting advice. Some women may even have different opinions than their other halves and are looking to expand a viewpoint further than their spouse's ideas. I hunt with my husband but we don't always agree on everything hunting related by any means! Not to mention that there are actually other females that might be able to help her out here too.

[Rob S]

...some husbands don't instantly jump on the jealousy bandwagon. Plus lingerie shopping and hunting advice are apples and oranges. I think it seems quite reasonable to come on to a hunting forum to ask for hunting advice. Some women may even have different opinions than their other halves and are looking to expand a viewpoint further than their spouse's ideas. I hunt with my husband but we don't always agree on everything hunting related by any means! Not to mention that there are actually other females that might be able to help her out here too.

Im sorry

[brie21]

the majority of my hunting has been summer, fall and spring, not much in the winter at all so i cant offer much on that part. for myself i have a pair of fleece camo pants and a fleece olive green top. I like fleece for the quiet while walking. I also have a set of camo rain gear, it is light and a bit noisy for still quiet days. thermal underwear is great for layering and gore tex socks are handy if you get your boots wet.
Try to dress so that you are comfortable and not going to sweat like crazy, once you get damp you get uncomfortable and very chilly.

btw congrats on getting the bug! dont worry about what the guys think, i have been around friends that boast they will get the big one, then later eat their words as they dont get anything at all.

[KegRiver]

Hi Seabass, welcome to the AO forums.

At one time hunting was a man's pursuit but not so much now.

I know quiet a few ladies who hunt, and I could add, most women I know could hold their own against any game and against any male hunter.

Mrs Huntin comes to mind. Awesome lady and as good a hunter as I have ever known, and her hubby is no slouch at hunting either.

Then there are my sisters, several of whom hunt, or used to hunt. My oldest daughter is a skilled hunter and, I would wager she has killed more bears then most members of this forum have.

Then there is a very special lady that I know who is also a member here and a hunter. Got her first deer last fall.

And there are quiet a few other lady hunters on this site that I don't know except from what they post. They seem to be as skilled and successful hunters as any man I know.

Never let anyone tell you that women shouldn't be hunters. One thing my sisters taught me, women can do anything a man can do, and often do it better, except water the top wire on the pasture fence.

[dgradinaru]

I would recommend a 7x57 or 6.5x55 for a women hunter. Low recoil and enough power to knock most game down.

[LBB]

Hi Seabass, welcome to the AO forums.

At one time hunting was a man's pursuit but not so much now.

I know quiet a few ladies who hunt, and I could add, most women I know could hold their own against any game and against any male hunter.

Mrs Huntin comes to mind. Awesome lady and as good a hunter as I have ever known, and her hubby is no slouch at hunting either.

Then there are my sisters, several of whom hunt, or used to hunt. My oldest daughter is a skilled hunter and, I would wager she has killed more bears then most members of this forum have.

Then there is a very special lady that I know who is also a member here and a hunter. Got her first deer last fall.

And there are quiet a few other lady hunters on this site that I don't know except from what they post. They seem to be as skilled and successful hunters as any man I know.

Never let anyone tell you that women shouldn't be hunters. One thing my sisters taught me, women can do anything a man can do, and often do it better, except water the top wire on the pasture fence.

Now would that be the electric fence.lol

[twofifty]

......
...dont worry about what the guys think, i have been around friends that boast they will get the big one, then later eat their words as they dont get anything at all.

Speaking of women hunters:

Two years ago -my first big game season- another hunter and I were comparing notes while in a grocery store lineup.

The two high school girls handling the tills, upon hearing that we'd been skunked, piped up that one had got her moose and the other a big buck. One shot kills. No tracking. :blush:

[LBB]

Welcome to the hunting world, I know of many lady hunters,and respect every one of them. Some young,some older, new to hunting and some with many years under there belt. They have all been very ethical, and showed a real enjoyment and appreciation for the outdoors.Great additions to the hunting population. As for hunting gear, buy good quality, clothing and safety items. Poor boots will wreck a hunt before a older good shooting gun ever will.

[Blackwolf]

Welcome to the world of hunting, my wife and daughters all hunt with me and by themselves. You need no special equipment, just a good attitude

[roger]

My wife shoots a 257 wby and quite well too. Hunting isnt gender specific.
Hunting and gathering is what our species has evolved to do, mall shopping, garage saleing, gold panning, metal detecting or fishing for marlin. It all has the same end result and we are always excited to see whats over the next ridge.
Its also another version of 'track and feild'.

[Mike_W]

But hey, if you like trying on stuff at Lasenza, that's your own thing. Your missus might have different concerns though.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!:sHa_sarcasticlol: :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Cottus]

I have loads of female friends in the infantry, artillery, and in other pursuits, who camp, hike, fight, climb, SCUBA in cold water, etc...they swear life is made simpler outdoors by the she-pee/she-whiz/shewee. Gentlemen you don't need to google it but for the ladies I am dead serious.

Enjoy the new hobby!

[Seabass.270]

I have loads of female friends in the infantry, artillery, and in other pursuits, who camp, hike, fight, climb, SCUBA in cold water, etc...they swear life is made simpler outdoors by the she-pee/she-whiz/shewee. Gentlemen you don't need to google it but for the ladies I am dead serious.

Enjoy the new hobby!

This is very true. It might have to be an investment. The buns do get chilly in the fall.

[brownbomber]

Good I like to see strong chickadees doing non traditional things. You are quite capable I'm sure. My girls love the outdoors and love coming hunting with me. The more girls involved the better. Thanks :)

[leo]

Welcome to AO. My wife, son, daughter and I go hunting every year together. My wife hasn't pulled the trigger in quite a few years, but she still comes hunting with me every year. My daughter hasn't shot anything either, but enjoys shooting, the outdoors and camping. It's great to spend time with the people that are really important in your life, doing the things that you all enjoy!
LM

[Seabass.270]

Thank you all! The support has been very reassuring. I wasn't sure what to expect from the hunting community after a few encounters.
All the advice is greatly appreciated! Now it's time to get out there and learn from experience. Let the clover come!

[Artemis]

I was wearing light camo until i froze my arse off a few yrs ago and spent all of xmas sick.... so now I have a SHE winter jacket that is the warmest thing I have ever owned!!! I can easily fall asleep at the duck pond/stubble field waiting for legal light.
I also bought Danner 1000g boots. I wasn't looking for such thick insulation, but knew Danner was a great boot (worked at WSS for a bit). And they have kept my chilly feet warm all season. Find a boot that feels comfy. You should never have to "break them in".
Both of these may be a bit too warm on mild days, but you will bee very thankful for them in that damn cold prairie wind!! I also find a sports bra easier to dry out and stay warm than a regular one with the wires ... and wool socks are a must. all year, every season.

I shoot a 7mm-08 and LOVE it. My go-to gun. I also got a 30-06 for the range of load it has available. and you can find it almost anywhere. The 7mm-08 ammo seems to sell out quickly at the bigger stores. I also recommend you shoulder the rifle to see how it fits. I was looking for a 308 when i picked up the 7mm-08 and it felt perfect, so i got it instead!

And finally.... COME TO THE OWP.... that's outdoor womens program put on by AHEIA. It was mentioned earlier, I go almost every year, and we all have a blast!!! 200 ladies playing at camp for the weekend... woohoo!!! check AHEIA or huntingfirtomorrow websites....

[Artemis]

and I wouldnt worry too much about recoil. A heavier stock will absorb more recoil (as opposed to synthetic stock), but if you are hiking all day it will get heavy to carry.... however! hopefully you will only need to take one or 2 shots to kill the animal, and with the adrenaline rush, you prob wont even feel the recoil!! the recoil thing only comes into play when you are practicing/sighting in at the range ... but 1/2-1 pack of any ammo prob stings at the end of the day.

WSS has some SHE pants on sale right now, and under armour t shirts :)

[CenterFire]

Welcome to the club! We need more lady hunters to show these guys what's-what! Just kidding, but us ladies got to stick together :)

You'll find, for the most part, the hunting community is quite friendly and supportive. This forum is full of excellent, fountains of knowledge as well.

I personally shoot a .308 (synthetic stock) and can burn through about 30 rounds of 180G bullets without even feeling it in my shoulder. You'll find with proper shouldering and allowing your body to accept the kick without losing sight of your target, the size won't much matter. When I first began hunting, I'd sit in my living room and shoulder my rifle over, and over, and over again.. but it's all about what you're comfortable with. a .270 is a great choice, a fellow lady-hunter of mine uses one for big game without any issues. Shot placement is crucial regardless of the caliber, IMO.

As everyone said, don't cheap out on glass... as for apparel, decide when your main hunting seasons are and shop accordingly... if you're hunting in September you obviously don't need/want Snow Camo (as an example).

You will be relying on your gear to keep you safe, happy and successful, so you generally don't want to 'cheap out'; this is especially true for all your glass and gear.

[CptnBlues63]

Thank you all! The support has been very reassuring. I wasn't sure what to expect from the hunting community after a few encounters.
All the advice is greatly appreciated! Now it's time to get out there and learn from experience. Let the clover come!


Welcome and apologies on behalf of all the "real man" out there for the wannabe idiots who were negative to you.

Gender makes no difference when it comes to hunting and handling firearms and anybody that thinks it does is obviously an uneducated mental midget so ignore them.

Unless that .270 is too much for you, there's nothing wrong with that caliber. You definitely want your own gun though and I would suggest you and hubby also invest in a third to carry as a spare in your truck in case of accidents (ie: broken scope, muzzle into the dirt/mud etc).

You've had a lot of great advice and I thought I'd add my two cents
1) Spare clothing in vehicle. Complete inner/outer and boots. It's happened enough times that someone in my group got soaked that it's habit for all of us to carry spare clothing in our vehicles so it's always handy.
2) I have a kit bag I carry in my truck. I grab it as soon as I get out. It contains:
- spare knife
- 2 sharpeners (diabmond steel and a ceramic "pull through" style - both are great for a quick tune up of the edge while working)
- Surgical style gloves (multiple pairs)
- Paper towel
- All my tags
- A compass
- Something with which to start a fire that is waterproof
- Ropes of various lengths. I bought a roll of "pull starter cord" like the kind you'd use to pull start a mower. It's a thin diameter and very strong. It's very handy for tieing animal legs to trees if you're alone. I also have one bigger diamerter that's about 20' (7m) long for dragging.
The kit bag is not big and has come in handy as a rest many times when I've been able to take a prone shooting position.
3) Toilet paper in the truck and/or kit bag

[BPman]

Welcome!! Most of the best friends I have came out of hunting fishing and shooting activities.

Some general advice: get whatever gear and do whatever it takes to keep your hands, feet and head dry and warm under the worst weather you expect to encounter. If you can shoot your D-H's 270 without fear of the recoil then get a Remington 700 new or used in the same caliber and you will be suitably armed for anything huntable in western Canada. If the 270 is a bit hot for you then consider a 25-06, 7 X 57 or equivalent but over all, I found 6 mm and 243 on the light side for big deer and anything bigger. Practice your shooting - nobody was born a skilled marksman despite what some guys might think. A 4" blade is all you need for dressing deer sized game - something bigger for moose and elk. Decent binocs are your best friend.
Good luck and have fun - every outing is an adventure....