Alberta Elk Farmers want to own Free Ranging Animals!

[walking buffalo]

This Information has just been leaked. We'll update as more comes to light.


AFGA News Release.

http://www.afga.org/news-updates.html


Proposed new Elk Farming Regulations


It has come to the attention of the Alberta Fish and Game Association from two different sources that regulation changes relating to the escape of animals from game farms are being proposed without public consultation.

If what we have heard is correct, the proposed changes could have profound and far reaching implications relating to public ownership of free ranging wildlife that have not been adequately considered, due to game farming regulations falling under Alberta Agriculture.



It is inferred that the game farmer would own the animals in perpetuity even if they escape, and regardless of the number of escapees. And further, that if a hunter kills one of these animals and then finds out it originated from a farm he would not held liable, but would have to contact authorities who would determine the owner of the animal, who will then in turn have to deal with the carcass.



Apparently this matter is time sensitive as the closed door discussions are nearing completion.



Please visit our website: www.afga.org

[packhuntr]

Its so hard to stay upbeat and positive with regards to anything outdoors/wildlife related. Too much human senselessness created by an unbelievable volume of idiots. Fighting all the issues surrounding conservation is a sad waste of time. No matter where you turn its another bunch of morons making an attempt at something. Not worth fighting. Take what you can while its here to be had.

[walking buffalo]

Its so hard to stay upbeat and positive with regards to anything outdoors/wildlife related. Too much human senselessness created by an unbelievable volume of idiots. Fighting all the issues surrounding conservation is a sad waste of time. No matter where you turn its another bunch of morons making an attempt at something. Not worth fighting. Take what you can while its here to be had.


I hear yah, I'm just stubborn. In the meantime....

PLEASE PASS THE BOTTLE!!!! :1041:

[waterninja]

april fools or not, i sure hope some escaped elk walk by my bow stand this year.

[hayseed]

april fools or not, i sure hope some escaped elk walk by my bow stand this year.

Or buffalo....:)

[BeeGuy]

In the interest of fairness, does this mean we will be able to hunt on elk farms?

What it wildlife escapes their natural refuge and enters a farm?

Will an elk farmer call me if his animal has no ear tag????

[walking buffalo]

In the interest of fairness, does this mean we will be able to hunt on elk farms?

What it wildlife escapes their natural refuge and enters a farm?

Will an elk farmer call me if his animal has no ear tag????



That's another interest of the Game Farmers, they would LOVE to allow hunting on these farms. Just put your money down.

There already are laws covering this. The Big Game Wildlife must be removed.

Yes, If he believes that you shot it.



-----------

FYI, despite what I wish, this is not a joke.

Another thread on the topic in the general forum.

Secret closed door meetings worries AFGA
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=214344

[IR_mike]

april fools or not, i sure hope some escaped elk walk by my bow stand this year.

And unless something has changed potentially look forward to having all the ungulates between the escape point and your harvest area culled.

[Big Daddy Badger]

That's another interest of the Game Farmers, they would LOVE to allow hunting on these farms. Just put your money down.

There already are laws covering this. The Big Game Wildlife must be removed.

Yes, If he believes that you shot it.



-----------

FYI, despite what I wish, this is not a joke.

Another thread on the topic in the general forum.

Secret closed door meetings worries AFGA
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=214344


Let me guess... they will be in those grazing leases....where we will either be denied access now or paying for it.


If I was a less honest man... I'd probably consider buying some fencing pliars.:thinking-006:

Whatever... they couldn't have found a better way to drive a wedge between hunters and landowners if they tried.

[calgarychef]

It's a bad idea but has one good point. It lets the authorities charge the original owner of feral animals like pigs that have been allowed to escape.

[dgl1948]

But would this not make the game farmer responsible for damages from these animals and it could hit the pocket book pretty hard. If one of these escaped animals was shot, tested and found positive for cwd would he be responsible? What about crop damage and fence damage caused by his animals?

[walking buffalo]

It's a bad idea but has one good point. It lets the authorities charge the original owner of feral animals like pigs that have been allowed to escape.


We do not know what changes are being discussed., but it appears to be seeking the opposite.

Currently, the government can charge damages to owners of escaped livestock like wild boar. However, this back door discussion appears to be attempting to remove all liability and accountability.




But would this not make the game farmer responsible for damages from these animals and it could hit the pocket book pretty hard. If one of these escaped animals was shot, tested and found positive for cwd would he be responsible? What about crop damage and fence damage caused by his animals?

No. They are currently responsible, the word is that the secret discussions are seeking to remove owner liability.


Here is the current legislation.

Livestock Industry Diversification Act
http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/laws/stat/rsa-2000-c-l-17/latest/rsa-2000-c-l-17.html

" Liability for trespassing animals

20(1) If a present or prospective domestic cervid escapes from its domesticated condition and

(a) damage is done to property by the animal or by any person in attempting to capture the animal, or

(b) expense is reasonably incurred in attempting to capture or in maintaining or transporting the animal,

the operator and, if the operator did not own the animal immediately before the escape, the owner of the animal at that time, are jointly and severally liable for that damage or expense, or for both, unless it is due wholly to the fault of the person suffering the damage or expense.

(2) In determining whether liability for any damage or expense is excluded by subsection (1), the damage or expense is not to be treated as due to the fault of the person suffering it by reason only that the person could have prevented it by fencing the person’s land.

(3) If a person

(a) opens and does not close or properly close a gate, or

(b) tampers with, damages or destroys a gate or fence,

as a result of which a present or prospective domestic cervid escapes from its domesticated condition, the person is liable for any damage or expense referred to in subsection (1).

(4) Nothing in subsection (3) restricts any liability under subsections (1) and (2).

(5) Nothing in this section affects section 11 of the Wildlife Act.

(6) The Crown has a right of action under this section for damage or expense suffered by it.
"

Wildlife Act
http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/laws/stat/rsa-2000-c-w-10/latest/rsa-2000-c-w-10.html#sec11_smooth

" Escape and recapture of animals from certain premises

60(1) If a live big game animal is found on permit premises and its possession on those premises is not authorized by a permit, the owner or person in charge of those premises shall ensure that an appointed officer is notified forthwith of the finding.

(2) Where a wildlife or controlled animal escapes from captivity on permit premises or a domestic cervid production farm, the owner or person in charge of the permit premises or farm shall

(a) make reasonable efforts to recapture the animal, and

(b) ensure that the escape is reported to an appointed officer within the prescribed period or, if no such period is prescribed, within 48 hours after the escape, unless it is recaptured within that period.

(3) The Minister may recapture or attempt to recapture the escaped animal and assess the cost directly or indirectly incurred by the Crown in recapturing or attempting to recapture it, including any damage caused by the animal or by efforts to recapture it, to the owner or person in charge of the permit premises or farm before the animal escaped.
"

[walking buffalo]

The story is making the news.

MLA warns elk farming changes could raise risk of chronic wasting
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/warns+farming+changes+could+raise+risk+chronic+was ting/9688543/story.html


" Changes to elk farming regulations that could increase the risk of chronic wasting disease in Alberta are on the verge of being approved by the province without any consultation, says Liberal MLA Laurie Blakeman.

The Edmonton-Centre MLA obtained leaked ministerial documents that suggest the Progressive Conservative government plans to quietly approve a law to make Alberta the first jurisdiction in North America to allow domestic elk that stray from farms to remain the property of elk farm operators in perpetuity.

"I am really shocked there has been such a deliberate action by both ministries to keep this out of the public eye, not consulting with the very people who would be affected," Blakeman said in an interview. "It's just so outrageous."

When Blakeman questioned Agriculture Minister Verlyn Olson in the legislature last month about whether he had approved the regulation without consulting other stakeholders, he replied: "There has been extensive consultation." However, a leaked March 7 document obtained by Blakeman states "stakeholders have not been consulted."

The document recommends approval of the regulation, but warns that wildlife stakeholders, landowners, rural municipalities and hunters "will have significant concerns regarding the risk of this policy change allowing privately-owned elk and deer living in the wild."

It states their concerns will include "implications for disease or genetic contamination, confusion and uncertainty on behalf of hunters who shoot tagged elk, issues with private elk on private property, including property damage and compensation, and opposition in principle."

It adds: "The elk industry has indicated they are strongly opposed to any broader consultation on what they feel is a strictly domestic cervid industry matter."

Environment and Sustainable Resource Development Minister Robin Campbell told the legislature March 20 he wasn't concerned about wildlife contamination from elk farms. "We do a very good job of inspecting the elk farms across this province, and the fact that one or two do escape is not going to cause us any issues," he said. "We've had a very good discussion with people within my ministry that are experts, and we're quite confident that the policy will do OK."

Of the 13,000 domestic elk and deer confined on 226 farms in Alberta, only 24 animals escaped between May 2010 and January 2014, and 12 were recovered, according to the ministerial documents. However, another six elk have escaped since and are still at large, the documents say.


Since 2002 there has been one case of chronic wasting disease found in farmed elk and two cases of the disease in whitetail deer, but the herds were "depopulated" and there have been no cases in farms since, according to the documents. The source of the three Alberta outbreaks was never determined. There are no confirmed cases of the disease being transferred to humans, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. Ranchers complain they are now given only 48 hours to recapture escaped elk or the animals risk being shot by wildlife officers.

Glenda Elkow, a spokeswoman for the Alberta Elk Commission, advised former premier Alison Redford in a strongly-worded letter last January that elk farmers have been seeking the change since 17 animals were shot by wildlife officers in 2004 after straying less than two kilometres from a farm. In the letter obtained by the Herald, she wrote that depriving elk farmers of ownership rights when their elk stray is "a take-away of ownership by the government."

Elkow declined to comment, but the commission said in a statement that perpetual ownership is necessary to enable farmers to finance their farms using their livestock as collateral, to insure their animals against losses, and to claim the antlers, meat and hide of stray farmed elk or deer shot by a hunter or wildlife officers.

Olson's office said the content of the regulations is still under development and has not been finalized. "We are still considering what additional consultation may be required as we go through government's regulatory process," Olson's press secretary Julie Crilly said in an email.

Gordon Poirier, president of the Alberta Fish and Game Association, said the regulatory changes are definitely not an internal elk farming issue. "If they could keep the animals always in pens and they were healthy and not a threat to our wildlife, they might have a point, but as their animals are constantly escaping and are a threat to Alberta's wildlife, it is not an internal matter and should have a public consultation," he said in an email.

"

[dmcbride]

Quote< "The elk industry has indicated they are strongly opposed to any broader consultation on what they feel is a strictly domestic cervid industry matter."

How is it a domestic cervid industry matter when they escape into the wild?

[Donkey Oatey]

Quote< "The elk industry has indicated they are strongly opposed to any broader consultation on what they feel is a strictly domestic cervid industry matter."

How is it a domestic cervid industry matter when they escape into the wild?

So what is the problem? The escape or that these people want to keep owning their animals if for some reason they get out? Doesn't seem that there is any talk of adding to their herds from wild stock, only if a domestic animal gets out they want to retain ownership of their property.

Thought all you guys were all about property rights?

[expmler]

Quote< "The elk industry has indicated they are strongly opposed to any broader consultation on what they feel is a strictly domestic cervid industry matter."

How is it a domestic cervid industry matter when they escape into the wild?

If the elk was born and raised on the farm, wouldn't it be the same as a ranchers cow escaping into the wild.

[pickrel pat]

It is a large concern that escaped domestic elk transmit disease to the wild herds.

[walking buffalo]

So what is the problem? The escape or that these people want to keep owning their animals if for some reason they get out? Doesn't seem that there is any talk of adding to their herds from wild stock, only if a domestic animal gets out they want to retain ownership of their property.

Thought all you guys were all about property rights?

Why should we bother even requiring these animals to be contained in the first place?

Obviously having Game farm elk on the lamb couldn't possibly pose any disease, genetic pollution, property damage or offspring issues..... :rolleye2:

Donkey, I suppose you also have no problem that these regulation amendment discussions being held in secret between the government on pro-game farm lobbyists without any public consultation....


Property rights.... The Game Farming industry should be fully accountable and responsible for paying all costs and damages caused by their animals. It is time for them to pay up for all the damage they have done to the Public's property due to CWD.

[pickrel pat]

If the elk was born and raised on the farm, wouldn't it be the same as a ranchers cow escaping into the wild.

No.

[Lefty-Canuck]

If the elk was born and raised on the farm, wouldn't it be the same as a ranchers cow escaping into the wild.

No because is the domestic cow going to breed with wild cows?

LC

[brohymn2]

In the interest of fairness, does this mean we will be able to hunt on elk farms?

What it wildlife escapes their natural refuge and enters a farm?

Will an elk farmer call me if his animal has no ear tag????

good point

[Gbuss]

No because is the domestic cow going to breed with wild cows?

LC

If that wild cow is my ex then she most certainly will breed with that domestic cow. :scared0018:

Gordon

[270WIN]

So what is the problem? The escape or that these people want to keep owning their animals if for some reason they get out?



Neither of the above. The problem is that it offers one more opportunity for disease to spread from game farms into the wild population. Pretty simple really.

As for property rights, I'm all for them. I happen to own some property myself as a matter of fact. It just seems to me that the health of our wild deer and elk (which happen to be the property of all of us) trumps a small encumbrance on the property rights of a few members of an industry which is responsible for introducing CWD into Western Canada in the first place. I mentioned this in an email which I just got done sending to our new premier expressing my thoughts on this proposal to change the regulations relating to escapees from game farms as well as some of my views on game farming in general.

[pickrel pat]

If that wild cow is my ex then she most certainly will breed with that domestic cow. :scared0018:

Gordon

It would be an unsuccesful breeding attempt unless of course your ex is a man....:)

[Donkey Oatey]

Why should we bother even requiring these animals to be contained in the first place?

Obviously having Game farm elk on the lamb couldn't possibly pose any disease, genetic pollution, property damage or offspring issues..... :rolleye2:

Donkey, I suppose you also have no problem that these regulation amendment discussions being held in secret between the government on pro-game farm lobbyists without any public consultation....


Property rights.... The Game Farming industry should be fully accountable and responsible for paying all costs and damages caused by their animals. It is time for them to pay up for all the damage they have done to the Public's property due to CWD.

Sorry WB but you sure are going out on a limb from what I posted. I asked what the problem was. Is it the escape of animals? Or is it that they people want to retain ownership of these animals if they escape?

Wasn't saying it was right or wrong just trying to figure out what the problem was. Do these animals escape? Yep, right in the report. Does ownership change the fact that once these animals are out something must be done? Nope. In fact I say it puts more onus on the owner to recapture the animal for liability reasons.

[walking buffalo]

Sorry WB but you sure are going out on a limb from what I posted. I asked what the problem was. Is it the escape of animals? Or is it that they people want to retain ownership of these animals if they escape?

Wasn't saying it was right or wrong just trying to figure out what the problem was. Do these animals escape? Yep, right in the report. Does ownership change the fact that once these animals are out something must be done? Nope. In fact I say it puts more onus on the owner to recapture the animal for liability reasons.


I misinterpreted your post, my apologies. Could have been the medicine required to deal with this again. ;)

First off, the secret process is a major concern. Regardless if we are talking game farming or property rights, the government should not be acting in this fashion. Do you agree?


Since the government has been unwilling to produce any documents on the changes being made, nor have they allowed any interest groups other than the Game Farming associations to participate, the actual wording of the changes are currently unknown.

What is known is that the changes are seeking to disallow ESRD to deal with escaped Diversified livestock within current regulations (posted earlier).

The word from those who have been given the leaked information suggest that the changes are also intended to reduce/remove liability of the owner.


The fact that there are at least 18 documented cases of escaped farmed elk than have not been recovered expounds that the concerns are justified. There should be further restrictions put on Game Farms when dealing with escaped animals, not a relaxation of the regulations.

[OpenRange]

It said in that Calgary Herald that only one elk since 2002 has tested positive for CWD. Using CWD as an arguement seems a bit ridiculous. These people own the elk just the same as I own cows. If they spot the escaped elk and want to recover it then fine by me. If they can't recover it than who cares, it will add a little hybrid vigor to the wild herds, then everyone can stop complaining about the lack of trophy animals in some areas. I would have thought you guys would have something bigger and more thought provoking to argue about.

[270WIN]

So what is the problem? The escape or that these people want to keep owning their animals if for some reason they get out? Doesn't seem that there is any talk of adding to their herds from wild stock, only if a domestic animal gets out they want to retain ownership of their property.

Thought all you guys were all about property rights?

Just one more thought regarding property rights and that is that they almost always come with some responsibilities for the property owner. Failure to live up to those responsibilities will often result in consequences which can be unpleasant for the owner.
In this case the game rancher has a responsibility to keep his/her animals confined. 'Nuff said?

[Donkey Oatey]

I misinterpreted your post, my apologies. Could have been the medicine required to deal with this again. ;)

First off, the secret process is a major concern. Regardless if we are talking game farming or property rights, the government should not be acting in this fashion. Do you agree?


Since the government has been unwilling to produce any documents on the changes being made, nor have they allowed any interest groups other than the Game Farming associations to participate, the actual wording of the changes are currently unknown.

What is known is that the changes are seeking to disallow ESRD to deal with escaped Diversified livestock within current regulations (posted earlier).

The word from those who have been given the leaked information suggest that the changes are also intended to reduce/remove liability of the owner.


The fact that there are at least 18 documented cases of escaped farmed elk than have not been recovered expounds that the concerns are justified. There should be further restrictions put on Game Farms when dealing with escaped animals, not a relaxation of the regulations.
No problem WB, it happens to us all at times :P

These are the regulations that should have been done 3yrs ago when Bill 11 the Livestock Industry Diversification Amendment Act was passed in to law.

From my research it is putting in to regulations what already was done through a MOU from F&W to Ag.

[dgl1948]

It said in that Calgary Herald that only one elk since 2002 has tested positive for CWD. Using CWD as an arguement seems a bit ridiculous. These people own the elk just the same as I own cows. If they spot the escaped elk and want to recover it then fine by me. If they can't recover it than who cares, it will add a little hybrid vigor to the wild herds, then everyone can stop complaining about the lack of trophy animals in some areas. I would have thought you guys would have something bigger and more thought provoking to argue about.

One of the problems with CWD is there is no way to test for it while an animal is alive. How many have it or are infected. Do we need another mad cow go around?

[Donkey Oatey]

One of the problems with CWD is there is no way to test for it while an animal is alive. How many have it or are infected. Do we need another mad cow go around?

CWD is fatal with an incubation of 18 to 36 months. One positive 12 yrs ago and countless tests done. I would say that the science says that in Alberta's herds of domestic cervids the risk is very low. More chance now that wild ones will give it to the farmed ones :D

[benamen]

Obviously other provinces are concerned with CWD coming from Alberta and Saskatchewan.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/06/16/chronic-wasting-disease-spread-canada_n_3448947.html

I remember a number of years ago when huge numbers of elk in Saskatchewan were being put down due to CWD.

[Lefty-Canuck]

CWD is fatal with an incubation of 18 to 36 months. One positive 12 yrs ago and countless tests done. I would say that the science says that in Alberta's herds of domestic cervids the risk is very low. More chance now that wild ones will give it to the farmed ones :D

How did the wild ones get it in the first place?

LC

[dgl1948]

CWD is fatal with an incubation of 18 to 36 months. One positive 12 yrs ago and countless tests done. I would say that the science says that in Alberta's herds of domestic cervids the risk is very low. More chance now that wild ones will give it to the farmed ones :D

How many die in captivity and are never reported? A lot of fellows learned from mad cow.

[Donkey Oatey]

How many die in captivity and are never reported? A lot of fellows learned from mad cow.

If you look in to the industry they have mandatory testing on all animals that die that are over a year old. All animals born are registered and every year they have to verify a herd list. Not impossible to SSS but much harder than one would think.

[slough shark]

I saw this story on the herald and had tried to comment on it, my comments suggesting it was irresponsible and that game farms were the source of cwd were removed for some reason :thinking-006:. The only positive aspect to game farming that I can think of is they have a vested interest in coming up with a vaccine, there was a link a fellow put on there that said that there was an experimental one so here's hoping.

[TreeGuy]

Without addressing the liability portion, this just seems to me like a greasy scam to avoid the illegality of high-fenced canned hunts and has the stench of apos all over it.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Without addressing the liability portion, this just seems to me like a greasy scam to avoid the illegality of high-fenced canned hunts and has the stench of apos all over it.

Yup.

We should have pushed back and hard as soon as game farms started up way back when.
Since then they've been racking up cash to lobby for it by selling their animals to out of province caged hunts.

[Gust]

I saw this story on the herald and had tried to comment on it, my comments suggesting it was irresponsible and that game farms were the source of cwd were removed for some reason :thinking-006:. The only positive aspect to game farming that I can think of is they have a vested interest in coming up with a vaccine, there was a link a fellow put on there that said that there was an experimental one so here's hoping.

I can't remember the name of the website, but, let's say you comment on the CBC news-site and your comment doesn't appear or is trimmed; because the CBC is paid for by you and I, they are not allowed to edit or discredit/not-post your comment (unless it's just filled with expletives). If you feel your post is valid then that's that. It's actually a big complaint with the CBC ombudsman.
The website tracker - I think - is www.icuc.org. I'll try to find it.

Because the herald is privately owned, it answers to it's advertisers which most are tied into the more moneyed land holders out there.

Nothing worse than your context/subject being removed. The Sun is notorious for this.

Sorry for the derail.

[walking buffalo]

Yup.

We should have pushed back and hard as soon as game farms started up way back when.
Since then they've been racking up cash to lobby for it by selling their animals to out of province caged hunts.

They sure have. And the cash is not from the elk farmers, but from government funding.

[3blade]

Without addressing the liability portion, this just seems to me like a greasy scam to avoid the illegality of high-fenced canned hunts and has the stench of apos all over it.

Agreed.

Further proof its well past time to take f&w decisions away from politicians.

[wapitisteaks]

Just curious, why are there elk and deer farms. I have never asked the question before but am very curious. And why not Grizzly bear and Big horned sheep farms. Near as I can tell the elk and deer population in AB is doing pretty good. What need does it fill to farm these wild animals.

[pickrel pat]

Just curious, why are there elk and deer farms. I have never asked the question before but am very curious. And why not Grizzly bear and Big horned sheep farms. Near as I can tell the elk and deer population in AB is doing pretty good. What need does it fill to farm these wild animals.

elk..... antler velvet and meat.
not sure about deer........maybe to sell to huntfarms where legal?

[wasteland.soldier]

You can't sell wild game, so if non hunters want to have some healthy, lean, tasty elk, it has to be farmed. Same if a chef wants venison on his menu.

With regard to the proposed law, you're telling me that if I shoot an elk deep in the backcountry and it has an ear tag, I have to hike back to the car, drive back to cell reception, figure out who to call, and have them deliberate, all while grizz feasts on the undressed (probably spoilt) carcass?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Tag? What tag?.....I figured that hole in the ear was from fighting....what? The government doesn't want to cover the cost of DNA testing each elk? I guess they don't value the resource very much....

LC

[Junglefisher]

You can't sell wild game, so if non hunters want to have some healthy, lean, tasty elk, it has to be farmed. Same if a chef wants venison on his menu.

With regard to the proposed law, you're telling me that if I shoot an elk deep in the backcountry and it has an ear tag, I have to hike back to the car, drive back to cell reception, figure out who to call, and have them deliberate, all while grizz feasts on the undressed (probably spoilt) carcass?

Are you telling me that a car runs off the road and through the fence on an elk farm during hunting season, all those elk are now rightfully, ethically and legally yours to shoot as soon as they cross the downed fence?

[wasteland.soldier]

That's a fair point. I guess how this law could affect you depends on your style of hunting. I prefer to hunt deeper in the backcountry from a bush camp. Perhaps the law should include a provision that ear tags include the GPS coordinates of the farm, and the animal is public after it strays say 30 km. Because leaving a carcass undressed and unattended for hours does not fit into my ethics.

EDIT: on reflection, 30 km may be a lowball number. But you get the idea.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Are you telling me that a car runs off the road and through the fence on an elk farm during hunting season, all those elk are now rightfully, ethically and legally yours to shoot as soon as they cross the downed fence?

They should be in the name of protecting our wild herds....I doubt the farmer would be able to capture all of them in those circumstances if they escaped.

LC

[pickrel pat]

Are you telling me that a car runs off the road and through the fence on an elk farm during hunting season, all those elk are now rightfully, ethically and legally yours to shoot as soon as they cross the downed fence?

used to be like that. not sure nowadays.

[bruceba]

http://www.producer.com/2014/04/cwd-confirmed-in-elk-herd/

[tonnage]

Whoever wrote that is an idiot. Now it's the fault of the wild cervids, not the fault of the domestication of wild cervids. It's that thing called a vicious circle.

[walking buffalo]

Are you telling me that a car runs off the road and through the fence on an elk farm during hunting season, all those elk are now rightfully, ethically and legally yours to shoot as soon as they cross the downed fence?

used to be like that. not sure nowadays.


Completely ridiculous and wrong.




There are protocols regarding escaped Diversified Livestock.
The ABP are looking to weaken the protocols by removing personal liability and recapture requirements. Still waiting for the government to provide details of their secretive amendments.

Livestock Industry Diversification Act
http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/laws/stat/rsa-2000-c-l-17/latest/rsa-2000-c-l-17.html

Matters Related to Domestic
Cervid Production Farming

Liability for trespassing animals

20(1) If a present or prospective domestic cervid escapes from its domesticated condition and

(a) damage is done to property by the animal or by any person in attempting to capture the animal, or

(b) expense is reasonably incurred in attempting to capture or in maintaining or transporting the animal,

the operator and, if the operator did not own the animal immediately before the escape, the owner of the animal at that time, are jointly and severally liable for that damage or expense, or for both, unless it is due wholly to the fault of the person suffering the damage or expense.

(2) In determining whether liability for any damage or expense is excluded by subsection (1), the damage or expense is not to be treated as due to the fault of the person suffering it by reason only that the person could have prevented it by fencing the person’s land.

(3) If a person

(a) opens and does not close or properly close a gate, or

(b) tampers with, damages or destroys a gate or fence,

as a result of which a present or prospective domestic cervid escapes from its domesticated condition, the person is liable for any damage or expense referred to in subsection (1).

(4) Nothing in subsection (3) restricts any liability under subsections (1) and (2).

(5) Nothing in this section affects section 11 of the Wildlife Act.

(6) The Crown has a right of action under this section for damage or expense suffered by it.


Livestock Industry Diversification Act- Directives and Procedures
http://www.albertadeer.com/pdfs/AWMDA-Domestic-Cervid-Manual-Sep-12-2011.pdf?PHPSESSID=4bb0f14ffdc68ce42ff514e1accda71 0

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/keetspics/StrayDomesticCervids1.jpg (http://s772.photobucket.com/user/keetspics/media/StrayDomesticCervids1.jpg.html)
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/keetspics/StrayDomesticCervids2.jpg (http://s772.photobucket.com/user/keetspics/media/StrayDomesticCervids2.jpg.html)
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/keetspics/StrayDomesticCervids3.jpg (http://s772.photobucket.com/user/keetspics/media/StrayDomesticCervids3.jpg.html)

[pickrel pat]

WB...... Are you saying that if I am elk hunting on crown land and I spot a herd and take a bull and as i get to my downed elk I notice a tag in its ear from a nearby game farm, that what I did was illegal?

[walking buffalo]

WB...... Are you saying that if I am elk hunting on crown land and I spot a herd and take a bull and as i get to my downed elk I notice a tag in its ear from a nearby game farm, that what I did was illegal?

No, Fire away.

That's a little bit different than "a car runs off the road and through the fence on an elk farm during hunting season, all those elk are now rightfully, ethically and legally yours to shoot as soon as they cross the downed fence"

This is ludicrous ^.

[pickrel pat]

No, Fire away.

That's a little bit different than "a car runs off the road and through the fence on an elk farm during hunting season, all those elk are now rightfully, ethically and legally yours to shoot as soon as they cross the downed fence"

This is ludicrous ^.

agreed.

[Junglefisher]

No, Fire away.

That's a little bit different than "a car runs off the road and through the fence on an elk farm during hunting season, all those elk are now rightfully, ethically and legally yours to shoot as soon as they cross the downed fence"

This is ludicrous ^.

Yes it is.
So how does it work then?
At what point does the animal no longer belong to the farmer?