Food plot seeding Farmers HELP

[manitou210]

Plowed up 2.5 acres last fall and will plant soon
Going to get alphala,Birdsfoot tree foil,white clover
Question for cover crop, oats, red wheat, or Buckwheat or other
what would you use
What are thoughts of sowing some sugar beets in middle of plot ?

[Icatchfish]

I'll go make some pop corn

[Lefty-Canuck]

I'll go make some pop corn

Only if you share.


LC

[Dick284]

Extra butter for me...

[pikeslayer22]

I would use oats as a cover crop...always works well for me in central ab...

[hillbillyreefer]

Oats at about a bushel/acre would be my first choice, wheat second. I don't have any experience with beets or buckwheat.

[H380]

All of the above choices would be good , but get ready to get accused of baiting , cause somebody on here is gonna do it .Not me , but it will happen :)

[Mike_W]

Best inquire on a forum located in a province/state where food plots are legal.

[MountainTi]

Best inquire on a forum located in a province/state where food plots are legal.

Since when are food plots not legal in Alberta? :)

[CBintheNorth]

And we're off...

[Smokinyotes]

If it's a crop that is going to be harvested, ie alfalfa/ Timothy for hay or cereal crops to be cut for green feed or combined fine. If it's a crop that you are just planting to feed the deer fine. Just make sure you are not hunting over your " food plot" or that's baiting.

[heretohunt]

How and where is food a plot considered to be an illegal bait worded in the regulations?

[Lefty-Canuck]

How and where is food a plot considered to be an illegal bait worded in the regulations?

Something to the effect of...

To set out, use, or employ for the purpose of hunting....bait

LC

[huntin]

Use oats and improving deer habitat is not baiting.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Use oats and improving deer habitat is not baiting.

If the sole purpose the crop was planted is to hunt over...key being SOLE purpose...F&W would have something to say about it.

LC

[huntin]

If the sole purpose the crop was planted is to hunt over...key being SOLE purpose...F&W would have something to say about it.

LC



Not the ones I've talked to. If its planted its fine if its placed its not

[bchap22]

I have reported the same outfitter for baiting deer for the purpose to hunt many times. The F&W don't care unless they watch you shoot the animal and on top of it can prove that you were the one that placed the "bait" there. If you wanna do a food plot go for it. No difference between farmers that keep their second growth alfalfa fields for them and their buddies to hunt. Its still the same crap just on a larger scale.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Not the ones I've talked to. If its planted its fine if its placed its not

The one I asked here had this to say when asked this question...

Question:
If someone were to plant 70acres with something specifically to hunt over like Biologic could they be charged with anything?

Reply:
Using bait for the purpose of hunting

Said it before and I'll say it again, INTENT is the key....also the hardest to thing to prove.

Now where is that dead horse it needs one more kick....:)

LC

[Fowl91]

Not the ones I've talked to. If its planted its fine if its placed its not

Unfortunately this is not true. It comes down to intent. Whether it is planted or placed, if the intent and sole purpose is to hunt over it then it is illegal. The grey area comes when a guy wants to hunt over it, but plants a harvestable crop such as alfalfa,peas,wheat, etc. Then it becomes hard to dispute the intent, if in fact the crop is legit. A rolled out bale of hay for example could land a guy in trouble if he has it set out under a tree stand, but lay it out in a field and sit and watch it from your house and who's to say it's not for your cattle?... A ton of grey area here guys, it's best left alone in all honesty. Bait sites spread disease among ungulates, let's do our part in conservation and keep them out of Alberta IMO.

Lefty beat me to it.... ^^^

[hillbillyreefer]

I have reported the same outfitter for baiting deer for the purpose to hunt many times. The F&W don't care unless they watch you shoot the animal and on top of it can prove that you were the one that placed the "bait" there. If you wanna do a food plot go for it. No difference between farmers that keep their second growth alfalfa fields for them and their buddies to hunt. Its still the same crap just on a larger scale.

Nice. Now landowners are dicks if we don't take a second cut on our alfalfa. For your information some areas in AB don't have a long enough growing season to allow the alfalfa to recover before winter hits. The field dies and then has to be replanted, which is costly. Oh and lots of your precious deer fed all winter on hayfields that weren't cut a second time in my area. I wonder how many more animals would have perished without that high energy foodstuff for them? Yup, just crap on a larger scale.

[Icatchfish]

posting a seeding thread on a HUNTING Forum, hmmmm ya intent might be hard to prove here.:sign0161:

you better watch, F&W might be lurking around on this forum, I hope they are at least.

it would be easier for you to just buy your meat. instead of baiting the deers into your back yard.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Nice. Now landowners are dicks if we don't take a second cut on our alfalfa. For your information some areas in AB don't have a long enough growing season to allow the alfalfa to recover before winter hits. The field dies and then has to be replanted, which is costly. Oh and lots of your precious deer fed all winter on hayfields that weren't cut a second time in my area. I wonder how many more animals would have perished without that high energy foodstuff for them? Yup, just crap on a larger scale.

In your scenario....there is no foul. The deer that were able to find the standing second cut through the snow in the middle if the winter thank you!

LC

[hillbillyreefer]

In your scenario....there is no foul. The deer that were able to find the standing second cut through the snow in the middle if the winter thank you!

LC

I was thinking the same thing. They looked pretty fat and happy when I was out in that field on Friday.

I took offense to "farmers keeping those fields for them and their buddies" crack. My neighbors, friends and I will hunt those fields if we please, heck if you stop and ask almost anyone can.

[densa44]

My neighbour a beef rancher plants a 1/4 section of a blend of corn that will grow in this climate.

He does not harvest the crop, in January when other fellows are hauling hay to feed their herd, he turns his cows in to the corn crop. Since it was left standing, the cows have no difficulty in eating the corn.

I saw it a few weeks ago when 300+ WTs were chowing down on what the cows had left.

I don't hunt deer but I believe that this fellow and his friends do.

I'm going to try some of that corn this year too.

[Lefty-Canuck]

^^^^^^^

Too bad we can't hunt deer in February :) (insert sarcasm)

LC :)

[Roughneck Country]

I think the OP was asking about a good cover crop, never said where it was or if he was even hunting, it could just be for improved deer habitat. Lots of people jumping to conclusions.

[deercamp]

This is the same argument over and over. Absolutely nothing illegal about not getting a crop off. Regardless of type. Its a good thing that this continues to happen as a failed harvest feeds hundreds of deer through the winter.also if it creates a good harvest opportunity for a first time hunter or a trophy for a seasoned one than that's what it's all about. We all carry the same tag and can only fill the tags you have. Everybody seems to not want people to fill a tag unless the stars align with a 50 yard shot 50 miles into the bush.

[aulrich]

At 2.5 acres it's bait, no commercial viability at all, intent is clear.

[Lefty-Canuck]

If it is any indication from what my farmer buddy went through this fall....they love carrots, they literally ate a tonne of them, only the tops. He sells them at farmers market and the deer love those carrot tops.

LC

[Sledhead71]

At 2.5 acres it's bait, no commercial viability at all, intent is clear.

Such a silly argument really, bait is placed as an attractant to change the habits of your target species.

Planting anything for wildlife benefit is habitat improvement.

[deercamp]

At 2.5 acres it's bait, no commercial viability at all, intent is clear.

Could be a large garden, vegetable farm etc. plant as much as you want. It's your land.why are you against habitat improvement and healthier deer? Get a deer over a uncut grain feild or as it crosses a cut block . Same difference but with a better chance ofa good shot opportunity .

[aulrich]

2.5 acres is enough for how many animals .5 or maybe .75 of a single animal.

As for habitat improvement It is safe to say that Alberta has an surplus of plowed under ground for deer to eat crop from; late spring, summer and fall so there is no real need for "improvement" there.

The only thing I would accept as an "habitat improvement" Is winter feed / cover and it would need to be mostly self sustaining, hay is border line. 2.5 acres of woody browse, Nanking Cherries, hazel nuts, willows and (insert any hedge plant here)

And if you in the middle of bush country with no crop field around those 2.5 acres are undoubtedly a bait.

Actually In Sask I hunt over bait all the time but it's LEGAL there My personal hunting ethics allows for bait but the first rule of "follow local laws" comes first.

[manitou210]

I think the OP was asking about a good cover crop, never said where it was or if he was even hunting, it could just be for improved deer habitat. Lots of people jumping to conclusions.

Should have stated i am in Quebec and there are no rules regarding baiting

[calgarychef]

So if you're in Quebec. Why not go to as ask, or Quebec forum and ask the question? Why ask in an Alberta forum when its illegal to bait in AB?

[Roughneck Country]

So if you're in Quebec. Why not go to as ask, or Quebec forum and ask the question? Why ask in an Alberta forum when its illegal to bait in AB?

Why not many people in AB belong to forums elsewhere and the west is where most cereal crops are grown.

[Lefty-Canuck]

We been done played foolz homiez!!

LC

[pikeslayer22]

Should have stated i am in Quebec and there are no rules regarding baiting
It was quite entertaining reading!!

[Swangin]

So if you're in Quebec. Why not go to as ask, or Quebec forum and ask the question? Why ask in an Alberta forum when its illegal to bait in AB?

****withdrawn*****

[deercamp]

2.5 acres is enough for how many animals .5 or maybe .75 of a single animal.

As for habitat improvement It is safe to say that Alberta has an surplus of plowed under ground for deer to eat crop from; late spring, summer and fall so there is no real need for "improvement" there.

The only thing I would accept as an "habitat improvement" Is winter feed / cover and it would need to be mostly self sustaining, hay is border line. 2.5 acres of woody browse, Nanking Cherries, hazel nuts, willows and (insert any hedge plant here)

And if you in the middle of bush country with no crop field around those 2.5 acres are undoubtedly a bait.

Actually In Sask I hunt over bait all the time but it's LEGAL there My personal hunting ethics allows for bait but the first rule of "follow local laws" comes first.

every bit helps , 2.5 acres of the right crop produces a lot more than you might think. we had 30 acres of oats behind the house last year produced 210 bushels/acre. so on 2.5 thats 525 bushels at 32 lb/bushel. Thats 16800 lb of grain.. so at 3 lb per day per animal. you can finish the math.. a lot more than .75 of one animal i can tell you that. 2.5 acres is just shy of 110000 sq ft...

[TUFFBUFF]

Oats for a cover crop, and leave them standing. I'd try a strip of corn along one side for cover and winter feed and a row of peas as well.
Birdsfoot trefoil is difficult to establish, and I hate clover so I'd use red clover and it will slowly die out in couple years. Deer like the red better white is alsike around here and I'd consider it a weed.

[ex811]

I think that times are changing...
A trip into Bass Pro will reveals isles of deer/bird 'baits', from salt/mineral licks that look like rocks to lures, scents even seeds for plots. As it's an American owned company they simply sell what works well for them down there.
Allot of us watch the redneckhillybilly hunten shows on WildTV which promote the s--t out of these sorts of products.
We've already been hunten over bait up here for some time now and with all these products being sold up here now I feel it's a trend that the authorities will not be able to slow down or stop. Sounds like they allow it in Quebec, guess we'll follow soon enough.

[crownb]

I had a co one time try to say I was hunting over bait because I was within 200 yards of a 30 000 bushel grain pile, I said so I MIGHT harvest one deer of this area but that pile will feed hundreds throughout the winter, then I told him to charge me and we can battle this out in court, he tucked his tail and left.

[huntingfan]

Deer pretty hungry after this winter, but see they really liking fall rye that green now. Think if you seeded it late(aug/sept) it would be very good attractant for fall. depending where you at I have lots - you likely need 150ish lbs/acre if you broadcasting.

[dmcbride]

Deer pretty hungry after this winter, but see they really liking fall rye that green now. Think if you seeded it late(aug/sept) it would be very good attractant for fall. depending where you at I have lots - you likely need 150ish lbs/acre if you broadcasting.

I have to double check but I believe Rye has no nutritional value to deer.

[deercamp]

Having hunted on both sides . Alberta and Saskatchewan I really don't see why so many people are against baiting. The disease argument is not a strong one . It does improve harvest chances no doubt, but I have had equal success in both situations . It provides a better shot opportunity at the intended quarry in a much more controllable environment. We still Carry the same tag and can only harvest what tags we have. It actually would deter road hunting as permission is granted and work and money is invested into a location.

[ProSK-Antiroyalty]

You can bait deer in saskatchewan. They love peas and that comes from a good ol farmboy


some nieve people on here if they think farmers who havent been able to get their crop fully off are breaking laws shooting deer on that land of theirs lol

same thing for grain piles when farmers dont have enough bin space

[huntingfan]

I have to double check but I believe Rye has no nutritional value to deer.

Rye grass may be negligible nutrition, but fall rye is as good as most other grains common to western Cda and aside from winter wheat likely only green thing for deer to chew on right now. Seeded at right time(aug/sept) it certainly the same in Fall.

[ThreeD]

Once again...I'm amazed at the anti's against habitat improvement. Most have no problem hunting over a grain field, soybeans, etc....but heaven forbid somebody actually plant some additional food specifically for wildlife that's available to them 8-12 months a year. After the winter we just had...imagine if your deer hunting area had a few good "go-too" food sources they could have tapped into in December and Jan to pack on some extra calories when it was -30 degrees. Imagine if they could jump on a good food source in mid- March when their "caloric gas tank/fat reserves" are just about empty...

Next fall, if the deer population is even lower than it was this year, rest assured their will be lots of squawking on here about the lack of deer and "how hard last winter was". Good post-hunting season food is critical...and it will get most deer through even the harshest of winters. Limited food = high winter mortality, especially come late Feb and March.

I've planted a few clover/chickory/brassicas projects on my woodlot in NB. A variety of wildlife utilized them all through the year. I can also tell you they are NOT a slam dunk for deer hunting...the deer don't JUST eat there. They frequent when the feel like it, and visit other natural food sources equally as much. So the folks who think planting a 1-2 acre field with clover will guarantee you a deer on the meat pole are quite mistaken.

What it will guarantee you is a healthier local deer population, better animal weights/fat reserves going into winter, better recovery in spring, and better nursing by does with fawns. Oh..and it might also provide you with some better hunting opportunities too. Sounds like a crazy combination of positives.

[QIsley]

http://westerncanadiangamewarden.com/S2012CWD.html

[Big Daddy Badger]

I was thinking the same thing. They looked pretty fat and happy when I was out in that field on Friday.

I took offense to "farmers keeping those fields for them and their buddies" crack. My neighbors, friends and I will hunt those fields if we please, heck if you stop and ask almost anyone can.

Better empty your in basket....lol

[Roughneck Country]

http://westerncanadiangamewarden.com/S2012CWD.html

Not that I disagree with the theory that baiting increases the chance of spreading disease, but look at TX and other southern states where they have had heavy baiting programs for years . CWD doesnt seem to be a big problem there

[Red Bullets]

Aulrich has it right. It you want to improve deer habitat plant woody browse.
Deer will benefit more from the browse during late winter. You might attract a grouse too. Less maintenence and more of a self sustaining 'crop' to plant too. I can't see F&W debating intent as the woody browse develops over many years. You might not hunt it the same way but it will be one of the best ways to benefit the local population.

[xbolt5]

I'm always torn when stuff like this comes up- because I do think that expanding habitat for deer in what are usually very unpredictable winters in very necessary, but it's all based on the intent.

Our farm has had winter crops left to be grazed on, and of course it attracts deer especially in the early parts of November where the green feed still sticks up above the snow. I don't hunt over it, because there is a much better corridor on the field between bedding areas but I can see how it could be a honey hole.

I think it is important to sustain the deer over the winter, but setting up a 'feed plot' and having a stand in the tree gets a little dicey, but it's the same thing as setting up near a bale pile... very tough to prove, and in my humble opinion slightly unethical, but that being said I usually try and pattern deer from their too and froms, so I can't say that's much better... I do think that having winter feed is a necessary evil for making sure the lesser critters make it through, just don't hold a rifle over the fast food window for the deer.

[happy honker]

If Hollywood comes to Alberta to make another Frankenstein movie....I know where they can get all the extras to play the angry villagers with pitchforks and torches.

This thread has taken on a real feel of "I'm jealous I don't have land, so I'm going to call F&W and report the landowner that's planting peas and turnips, cause he must be slaughtering all the trophy deer illegally over that plot".

My brother has a plot about 75yds behind the house, he plants peas, turnips, and I think he put clover in, but was afraid of not being able to get rid of it.
He doesn't hunt at all....hates it, but loves watching the deer in his back yard in the morning and evenings.
( I live 1300 km from him now, and he won't even let dad hunt "his" deer, lol)

How do you regulate against people like that? What law is he breaking?
His plot isnt much different in size than a large farm or acreage garden...are those people breaking the law too?
The biggest attractant for deer in his area in the fall is underneath the oaks at the cemetery near town...they love the acorns on the ground.

By all means, if you know of an illegal activity, report it. Until then, loosen your girdle a notch, un-bunch your panties, and mind your own.

[dmcbride]

Just my opinion, But I don't consider something that is grown and is still growing or is still in the ground to be baiting. No different than a crop field. I also don't think the CWD thing applies to food plots as they are the same thing as a crop field. If that is the case we should be trying to get rid of the crop fields so we don't spread CWD.:thinking-006:It is not the same thing as a pile of oats or other bait where the deer are concentrated in a small area.

Now I know it has been said before, it all comes down to intent. Just curious what is everybody's intent when they hunt over a crop field? Pretty sure it is to harvest an animal because they know the animals will be coming to feed on the crop field. Then some say crop fields are harvested. Yes some are and some aren't. Some fields that are harvested actually attract more animals because the animals like the small plants that were growing under the crop and now that it is harvested they have easy access and those same small plants which are growing because of the sun light that reaches them now. Or the left overs that didn't make it into the combine.

In my opinion there is a big difference between a pile of bait and a food plot. Also the food plot provides nutrition for the animals year round unlike a pile of bait.

[Matt L.]

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you think the difference between a food plot and bait pile is. It matters what those who make the laws and those who enforce the laws think.

[dmcbride]

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you think the difference between a food plot and bait pile is. It matters what those who make the laws and those who enforce the laws think.

I haven't heard of anybody being convicted for a food plot. Pile of bait, yes.
The wording of the law say's place a attractant. Planting a food plot isn't placing a attractant.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I haven't heard of anybody being convicted for a food plot. Pile of bait, yes.
The wording of the law say's place a attractant. Planting a food plot isn't placing a attractant.

Intent.....did you put it there solely to hunt over? Did you put it there to enhance habitat?

LC

[dmcbride]

Intent.....did you put it there solely to hunt over? Did you put it there to enhance habitat?

LC

Lets say both. Just like someone who has a crop field that they hunt over. Or someone who hunts over a crop field with the intent of harvesting an animal.

[waterfowler1969]

Intent.....did you put it there solely to hunt over? Did you put it there to enhance habitat?

LCAccording to F&W it is legal to have a food plot. Two different officers stated the same thing.:) What is the difference to planting a hay field than a clover one?

[xbolt5]

According to F&W it is legal to have a food plot. Two different officers stated the same thing.:) What is the difference to planting a hay field than a clover one?

Is this in writing somewhere or is it just their interpretation of it? I would be wary of one officer's interpretation if someone else decided to go on a power trip. I think half the time the guys who would get called out over something like that is because other hunters he talks to get sick of hearing him and report it. I've never seen anyone actually convicted of a food plot or deer baiting, just heard rumours. But working with different conservation/FW officers, I know it can depend on the officer, the day, and most importantly, the guy who is being looked into.

[deercamp]

Intent.....did you put it there solely to hunt over? Did you put it there to enhance habitat?

LC

Negative Nancy as per usual . Just call the wardens if your worried. Intent is the hardest thing to prove and won't even be challenged. Trying to prove if a farmer is planting for deer or for harvest? Are you kidding ? Will get laughed out of any court, which is why it will never even get there. Plant all the crop you can afford and leave for the deer in my opinion. If you fill your tag over said crop good on you. Big deal . Will do far more good for the deer than bad.

[Ranch11]

I would use oats.

[waterfowler1969]

Is this in writing somewhere or is it just their interpretation of it? I would be wary of one officer's interpretation if someone else decided to go on a power trip. I think half the time the guys who would get called out over something like that is because other hunters he talks to get sick of hearing him and report it. I've never seen anyone actually convicted of a food plot or deer baiting, just heard rumours. But working with different conservation/FW officers, I know it can depend on the officer, the day, and most importantly, the guy who is being looked into.It should not depend on the officers. Should never be double standards. As for baiting. If it grows it is not bait period.

[Lefty-Canuck]

According to F&W it is legal to have a food plot. Two different officers stated the same thing.:) What is the difference to planting a hay field than a clover one?

The one I talked to said the opposite :)

LC

[Lefty-Canuck]

Negative Nancy as per usual . Just call the wardens if your worried. Intent is the hardest thing to prove and won't even be challenged. Trying to prove if a farmer is planting for deer or for harvest? Are you kidding ? Will get laughed out of any court, which is why it will never even get there. Plant all the crop you can afford and leave for the deer in my opinion. If you fill your tag over said crop good on you. Big deal . Will do far more good for the deer than bad.

Negative as per usual? I beg to differ....how is that a negative post?

LC

[waterfowler1969]

The one I talked to said the opposite :)

LC
Well I know of quite a few food plots as they were told the same info I stated in last post. If it grows it is not bait and falls under same as crop.:)

[super7mag]

Sounds like you took the bait , I wonder when there going to throw the switch? So a d so told me doesn't cut it if they want to push it. If it is grown only to attract and harvest deer it's bait. Period. A hay crop is hay , to be sold or fed to livestock if the deer come to the field to eat after or before the crop us off not baiting. A grain pile to a farmer is money not bait they want that sold ASAP! Less waist and rot. If deer feed on it that's not baiting.
So salt blocks , oat piles , and " food plots". Would be baiting in Alberta. Not sure why its so hard to comprehend, unless your in the buissness of looking for loop holes.

[xbolt5]

It should not depend on the officers. Should never be double standards. As for baiting. If it grows it is not bait period.

Double standards are everywhere, especially if you have an arrogant ass who challenges an officer for no reason other than he's got a uniform on. I have to empathize with officers who have to deal with complete idiots day in day out and I can definitely see why they don't give them the benefit of the doubt.

Like I said, the last thing I would do is trust one person's interpretation of something... if it wasn't in writing I wouldn't go by 'if it grows'. I know plenty who may or may not enforce to the true extent of the law. For example, according to provincial parks regulation, a firearm consists by anything that launches a projectile with 'string, compressed air, or accelerant', meaning you can't shoot a bow or a gun (pellet or powder) without regulations that say otherwise. I was working with an officer who gave a parent a ticket for his 10 year old for blasting her with a water pistol, because the water was fired using 'compressed air'. (the charge was discharging a firearm in a restricted area within a provincial park, a few hundred bucks!)

Now, I don't think that ticket could have ever held up with a judge in court, but I know both the parent and the kid were smug when the officer instructed them to not fire it at others passing through the campground, and the kid responded by squirting the water pistol at her. The officer was a bit of a drill sergeant, and the kid was a smartass.

Take from that what you will, but the law can be vary open to interpretation and double standards, like it or not.

[xbolt5]

But, that being said, if there is regulation in writing that says 'if you grow crops with pure intent to hunt over them, that is fine according to regs because you grew them' then the argument is over. If not, then there is a lot of grey matter I'd rather not try and guess with.

[waterfowler1969]

Double standards are everywhere, especially if you have an arrogant ass who challenges an officer for no reason other than he's got a uniform on. I have to empathize with officers who have to deal with complete idiots day in day out and I can definitely see why they don't give them the benefit of the doubt.

Like I said, the last thing I would do is trust one person's interpretation of something... if it wasn't in writing I wouldn't go by 'if it grows'. I know plenty who may or may not enforce to the true extent of the law. For example, according to provincial parks regulation, a firearm consists by anything that launches a projectile with 'string, compressed air, or accelerant', meaning you can't shoot a bow or a gun (pellet or powder) without regulations that say otherwise. I was working with an officer who gave a parent a ticket for his 10 year old for blasting her with a water pistol, because the water was fired using 'compressed air'. (the charge was discharging a firearm in a restricted area within a provincial park, a few hundred bucks!)

Now, I don't think that ticket could have ever held up with a judge in court, but I know both the parent and the kid were smug when the officer instructed them to not fire it at others passing through the campground, and the kid responded by squirting the water pistol at her. The officer was a bit of a drill sergeant, and the kid was a smartass.

Take from that what you will, but the law can be vary open to interpretation and double standards, like it or not.

Well that is great how you think. Do a little more research to the head office of F&W in Edmonton and come tell us what you found out about food plots. Make sure to ask if planting a whole 1/4 in clover is illegal to hunt as there in no difference than a 1/4 of wheat or hay.:rolleye2:

[waterfowler1969]

but, that being said, if there is regulation in writing that says 'if you grow crops with pure intent to hunt over them, that is fine according to regs because you grew them' then the argument is over. If not, then there is a lot of grey matter i'd rather not try and guess with.lol. Make the call and ask for it in a email.Not all wildlife act rules are in the hunting regs.:rolleye2:

[waterfowler1969]

Sounds like you took the bait , I wonder when there going to throw the switch? So a d so told me doesn't cut it if they want to push it. If it is grown only to attract and harvest deer it's bait. Period. A hay crop is hay , to be sold or fed to livestock if the deer come to the field to eat after or before the crop us off not baiting. A grain pile to a farmer is money not bait they want that sold ASAP! Less waist and rot. If deer feed on it that's not baiting.
So salt blocks , oat piles , and " food plots". Would be baiting in Alberta. Not sure why its so hard to comprehend, unless your in the buissness of looking for loop holes.well you hunting over a grain field is baiting as you ain't in the business. Exactly the same thing.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Well I know of quite a few food plots as they were told the same info I stated in last post. If it grows it is not bait and falls under same as crop.:)

I am just going by what I was told straight up....read post #18 in this thread....right from F&W in my area.



Question:
If someone were to plant 70acres with something specifically to hunt over like Biologic could they be charged with anything?

Reply:
Using bait for the purpose of hunting



LC

[waterfowler1969]

I am just going by what I was told straight up....read post #18 in this thread....right from F&W in my area.



LCMe too lefty. This is the problem in this country and provinces. No one who enforces laws actually know what the law really is. There should be no doubt on how these laws read.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Me too lefty. This is the problem in this country and provinces. No one who enforces laws actually know what the law really is. There should be no doubt on how these laws read.

I agree with you there 100%....things that should be black and white become grey when there is different interpretations. Best to ask the officer in your area, get it in writing and hope he never goes on holidays!

LC :)

[waterfowler1969]

I agree with you there 100%....things that should be black and white become grey when there is different interpretations. Best to ask the officer in your area, get it in writing and hope he never goes on holidays!

LC :)The thing is really planting any crop does not bait any different than the crop the farmer plants next door. The biggest down fall with a food plot is that there are way more and better food in the farmers crops around. So IMO the only thing that a food plot does is help keep animals on your own place instead of going on the farm next door which the farmer next door will like cause he will have less crop damage.:)

[crownb]

Just my opinion, But I don't consider something that is grown and is still growing or is still in the ground to be baiting. No different than a crop field. I also don't think the CWD thing applies to food plots as they are the same thing as a crop field. If that is the case we should be trying to get rid of the crop fields so we don't spread CWD.:thinking-006:It is not the same thing as a pile of oats or other bait where the deer are concentrated in a small area.

Now I know it has been said before, it all comes down to intent. Just curious what is everybody's intent when they hunt over a crop field? Pretty sure it is to harvest an animal because they know the animals will be coming to feed on the crop field. Then some say crop fields are harvested. Yes some are and some aren't. Some fields that are harvested actually attract more animals because the animals like the small plants that were growing under the crop and now that it is harvested they have easy access and those same small plants which are growing because of the sun light that reaches them now. Or the left overs that didn't make it into the combine.

In my opinion there is a big difference between a pile of bait and a food plot. Also the food plot provides nutrition for the animals year round unlike a pile of bait.

So are you saying it's illegal to hunt over my grain pile, I stored grain there from 420 acre of land, so this is a concentrated food source, lots of deer in a small area, I did this because I have no where else to store this grain, believe me I would rather not have the grain pile in the field. The damage the deer do and the damage to my back from clearing all the snow off, so if I choose to shoot a deer of this pile out of the dozens that are there well I don't think that's so bad, the rest of the deer had feed all winter long, I hauled the pile out by the end of February, the deer are still there today eating grain that was lost in the clean up of the snow, this is a win win for the deer and I would like a co to come and try to give me a ticket, there would be a serious tongue lashing!!!!

[Sledhead71]

This debate is really getting old..

So rural land owner plants crop, dose not hunt but some of his family and friends enjoys our passion... Owner leaves this habitat intact and family member or friend hunts this and harvests his prey...

So, by the letter of the law, it is VERY obvious sportsman / woman never placed any bait / attractant.

Now, land owner is passionate out our sport and hunts this same habitat, how the heck can he be charged ?

To add to this, a total stranger asks permission to access this same land and habitat, can they be charged ?

Can't be a double standard and the definition is "placing" a bait or attractant for the sole purpose of hunting....

[dmcbride]

Sounds like you took the bait , I wonder when there going to throw the switch? So a d so told me doesn't cut it if they want to push it. If it is grown only to attract and harvest deer it's bait. Period. A hay crop is hay , to be sold or fed to livestock if the deer come to the field to eat after or before the crop us off not baiting. A grain pile to a farmer is money not bait they want that sold ASAP! Less waist and rot. If deer feed on it that's not baiting.
So salt blocks , oat piles , and " food plots". Would be baiting in Alberta. Not sure why its so hard to comprehend, unless your in the buissness of looking for loop holes.

Please tell me what the difference is between a hay crop which is grown for livestock or a hay field which is grown for wildlife when it comes to hunting? Is the hay crop that is grown for wildlife any better than the hay field that is grown for live stock?

By your logic anyone who hunts any hay field no matter what the purpose of the said hay field, would be baiting. The intent is the same, to harvest a animal because it comes to the said field to feed.

Has anyone ever been convicted of hunting over a food plot? I've never heard of anyone. There is a huge difference between a pile of bait and something that is grown and we shouldn't be saying they are the same thing. A big part of this province is one big food plot.

[super7mag]

well you hunting over a grain field is baiting as you ain't in the business. Exactly the same thing.

How do you know what buissness I'm in? I happen to grow , cut and bale alfalfa , and sell the bales for the last 10 years . Wanna guess how many deer I ve taken in my field - 0 .... You like walking the razors edge of the law good for you but when you slip up and get cut. Don't come looking for sympathy .

[LCCFisherman]

Please tell me what the difference is between a hay crop which is grown for livestock or a hay field which is grown for wildlife when it comes to hunting? Is the hay crop that is grown for wildlife any better than the hay field that is grown for live stock?

By your logic anyone who hunts any hay field no matter what the purpose of the said hay field, would be baiting. The intent is the same, to harvest a animal because it comes to the said field to feed.

Has anyone ever been convicted of hunting over a food plot? I've never heard of anyone. There is a huge difference between a pile of bait and something that is grown and we shouldn't be saying they are the same thing. A big part of this province is one big food plot.

A crop isn't in the middle of the bush and 1 acre.

[dmcbride]

A crop isn't in the middle of the bush and 1 acre.

I disagree, I know of lots of hay fields that have fingers that go into the middle of the bush because of the creeks and lay of the land. I also didn't say anything about the said field being in the middle of the bush.

I will ask again,
Please tell me what the difference is between a hay crop which is grown for livestock or a hay field which is grown for wildlife when it comes to hunting? Is the hay crop that is grown for wildlife any better than the hay field that is grown for live stock?

By your logic anyone who hunts any hay field no matter what the purpose of the said hay field, would be baiting. The intent is the same, to harvest a animal because it comes to the said field to feed.

[walking buffalo]

Please tell me what the difference is between a hay crop which is grown for livestock or a hay field which is grown for wildlife when it comes to hunting? Is the hay crop that is grown for wildlife any better than the hay field that is grown for live stock?

By your logic anyone who hunts any hay field no matter what the purpose of the said hay field, would be baiting. The intent is the same, to harvest a animal because it comes to the said field to feed.

Has anyone ever been convicted of hunting over a food plot? I've never heard of anyone. There is a huge difference between a pile of bait and something that is grown and we shouldn't be saying they are the same thing. A big part of this province is one big food plot.


The hay crop for livestock falls under an agricultural classification by law. The hayfield placed for wildlife does not qualify under agricultural law and is therefore open to be interpreted to be a food attractant, thus "Bait".

[dmcbride]

The hay crop for livestock falls under an agricultural classification by law. The hayfield placed for wildlife does not qualify under agricultural law and is therefore open to be interpreted to be a food attractant, thus "Bait".

Ok, classification put aside, what is the difference? If one was to hunt one or the other the Intent is the same, to harvest a animal that comes to feed on the field.

Just seems pretty silly to me that one is legal and one is questionably legal.

Kind of like saying, That I can't drive my car unless I bring it to jiffy lube only.
Driving= (Growing a crop) Jiffy lube= (Harvesting a crop)

:confused0024:

[Roughneck Country]

This whole thread is being lost on the "what if" scenarios, I think the spirit of the law is pretty clear. If you are intentionally putting something out to attract deer for hunting purposes your breaking the rules.

[dmcbride]

This whole thread is being lost on the "what if" scenarios, I think the spirit of the law is pretty clear. If you are intentionally putting something out to attract deer for hunting purposes your breaking the rules.

If the spirit of the law was clear we wouldn't be discussing this. If a farmer intentionally plants a crop for harvesting or hunting it is okay. But if the average joe plants something people accuse them of baiting.

[waterfowler1969]

How do you know what buissness I'm in? I happen to grow , cut and bale alfalfa , and sell the bales for the last 10 years . Wanna guess how many deer I ve taken in my field - 0 .... You like walking the razors edge of the law good for you but when you slip up and get cut. Don't come looking for sympathy .LOL. I aint walking any razor but thanks for the laugh.

[QIsley]

Not that I disagree with the theory that baiting increases the chance of spreading disease, but look at TX and other southern states where they have had heavy baiting programs for years . CWD doesnt seem to be a big problem there

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/diseases/cwd/

Texas CWD Management Plan includes the possibility of banning the use of bait..
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/diseases/cwd/media/cwd_plan_2012.doc

Texas document listing all the states regulations to control CWD, many ban the use of bait.... they all encourage people not to feed wildlife.
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/diseases/cwd/media/cwd_all_states.pdf

[deercamp]

And I'm assuming that the deer killed over the 5 acre pea crop isn't a worthy trophy and we should be disgraced because we never chased it out and pumped it full of lead? Are you afraid of it being to easy ? I don't get the argument here . Agricultural classification and non agricultural classification ? Are you joking ? There's no alfalfa police questioning what I plan on doing with my crop . I could plant whatever I want and leave it there. If I choose not to combine there's nothing illegal about this. And everybody else could hunt on it perfectly within the law. As could I . There's no court will charge a guy for hunting his own land where he failed to get a crop off. Period.

[roger]

Mens rhia.
If you dont know what it is and how it applies here, Take a minute to learn it. If you dont want to learn what it is then there isnt much more to say.
Its not about crops, acres, peas clover or jujubes, its the difference between manslaughter and murder....
intent. intent. Intent

[Lefty-Canuck]

Mens rhia.
If you dont know what it is and how it applies here, Take a minute to learn it. If you dont want to learn what it is then there isnt much more to say.
Its not about crops, acres, peas clover or jujubes, its the difference between manslaughter and murder....
intent. intent. Intent

Correct!

LC

[waterfowler1969]

.

[waterfowler1969]

Mens rhia.
If you dont know what it is and how it applies here, Take a minute to learn it. If you dont want to learn what it is then there isnt much more to say.
Its not about crops, acres, peas clover or jujubes, its the difference between manslaughter and murder....
intent. intent. IntentProve intent. You all say this but try and convict. Never happen. Hell you can hand them a conviction that should be a slam dunk and they cant do anything with it. :sign0176:

[hayseed]

Man oh man...enough already...

[deercamp]

Prove intent. You all say this but try and convict. Never happen. Hell you can hand them a conviction that should be a slam dunk and they cant do anything with it. :sign0176:


Exactly it's something that won't ever get challenged even. Does far more good than bad. Jealousy must be the root of all the backlash. Usually is I suppose.

[huntin]

so how about when they change habitat for duck hunting. is that baiting or habitat improvement.

[H380]

Man oh man...enough already...
Isn't that the truth !

[RayM77]

Mens rhia.
If you dont know what it is and how it applies here, Take a minute to learn it. If you dont want to learn what it is then there isnt much more to say.
Its not about crops, acres, peas clover or jujubes, its the difference between manslaughter and murder....
intent. intent. Intent

I had mens rhia once when I was in Mexico. Trust me it's not fun!

[dmcbride]

I wonder why a lot of the deer outfitters in Alberta advertise hunting over food plots if it is illegal? Is there some kind of special law just for them?