Pack llamas

[Eric hunter]

Hey guys. I'm now looking for llamas for packing camp and game. I did lot of research and I think it will be a good option for packing while on foot.
Problem is I can not find any of those trained animals here in Alberta. There is couple of guys in Montana and Idaho who raise and trained them but they don't have any packers available right now.
Any recommendation, tips or advise would be very appreciated as it's a total new experience for me.
Thanks.
Eric.

[drake]

They can spread disease to wild sheep....I would recommend keeping them of the mountain.

[Eric hunter]

Drake, where did you get that information?

[walking buffalo]

They can spread disease to wild sheep....I would recommend keeping them of the mountain.

Without question. Just say no to Llamas, Alpacas and Pack Goats in Wild Sheep Country.



Communicable Disease Risks to Wildlife
From Camelids in British Columbia
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/documents/wldhealth/camelid_risk03.pdf


REDUCING DISEASE RISK TO DALL’S SHEEP AND
MOUNTAIN GOATS FROM DOMESTIC LIVESTOCK
POSITION STATEMENT
THE ALASKA CHAPTER OF THE WILDLIFE SOCIETY
http://wildlife.org/Alaska/sites/wildlife.org.Alaska/files/red_disease_risk_statement.pdf


Examining the Risk of Disease Transmission
between Wild Dall’s Sheep and Mountain Goats,
and Introduced Domestic Sheep, Goats, and
Llamas in the Northwest Territories
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1028&context=zoonoticspub

[Grizzly Adams]

Grizzly bears prefer them over all other meat, with the possible exception of Miniature Donkeys. :lol:

Grizz

[Ryry4]

They can spread disease to wild sheep....I would recommend keeping them of the mountain.

x2. May I suggest investing in a good horse or mule.

[huntin]

As stated please buy a mule or horse and use them for packing the sheep do not need to be hit with a disease their immune system can not handle.

[calgarychef]

As the report points out....
There's no definitive answer to the question. Yes diseases can be transmitted but most of the diseases that exist in llamas already exist In wild populations. The biggest danger is llamas born outside of Canada and imported and carrying something. If they are quarantined when they arrive here its less of a problem. Also less and less llamas are being imported from outside of Canada as we have a good breeding population here.

Another point is almost any horse guy will tell you llamas are no good, although they've been used in mountainous areas for a very long time. Seems the horse guys just naturally hate llamas. The parks guys will tell you that llamas are a lot easier on the trail systems than horses because of the way their hooves are made.

I had a guy who borrowed some untrained llamas to go into the mountains and because they weren't trained they wouldn't work. Now that guy was a bit brain dead to try an animal like that. I met a guy south of Calgary that trains llamas and he's pretty keen on their abilities.


From the report....

Question 3: Is it reasonable to believe that camelids in BC could harbour contagious disease agents to which BC wildlife could be susceptible?
Short Answer:
Three lines of evidence indicate that there is a significant overlap of disease-causing agents in wild ungulates and camelids in BC. First, a literature review revealed an overlap of pathogens and parasites affecting both groups of animals. Second, the diagnostic records from the Animal Health Centre allowed us to conclude that this overlap does exist for BC. Finally, the fecal and sero-survey results demonstrate that an overlap continues to exist in the province. These data also showed that these infectious agents have been associated with disease in wild ungulates. We can, therefore, confidently conclude that llamas in BC can be infected or infested with agents that can cause disease in wild ungulates in BC. However, it is very important to emphasize that many of these agents were present in wildlife before the introduction of camelids into the province, many of these agents have a wide host distribution involving a variety of artiodactyls and no direct evidence of transmission from camelids to wildlife was found.

[alpineguy]

I'd suggest doing a little more research in regards to talking to people who have actually tried it. The reports and stories I have heard are they can be really stubborn and frustrating. There has been more than one llama shot by its owner!!!!!

Good luck!!

[Matt L.]

Grizzly bears prefer them over all other meat, with the possible exception of Miniature Donkeys. :lol:

Grizz

Mountain lions find them quite delectable too.

[elkdump]

I'd suggest doing a little more research in regards to talking to people who have actually tried it. The reports and stories I have heard are they can be really stubborn and frustrating. There has been more than one llama shot by its owner!!!!!

Good luck!!

I dont own a Llama,,, but I have an almost 'uncontrollable urge' to shoot the

hideous displaced creature every-time I see one,,,


Lord Keep me strong, Deliver me from Temptation,,,,,,,,:fighting0021:

[duceman]

just curios, how many of the previous posters have had anything to do with llamas in their life time? none by the posts shown so far.
as with any animal, they are very trainable, and will carry up to 1/3 their body weight.
the wave has pretty much came and went in the llama and alpaca market in western canada, moderately active in ontario.
if the op wants to get an idea of what they are capable of , go to www.llamas-alpacas.com and do some reading, lee

[walking buffalo]

Yes, I have been on a mountain hunt in the Kootenays and a few Ab foothill camping trips that included Llamas.

Alpineguy must have heard about those trips. :lol:

Sometimes the owner is willing to take turns. ;)



When researching pack Llamas be sure to look for negative aspects as well. Those breeder sites paint a pretty picture.

[elkdump]

Yes, I have been on a mountain hunt in the Kootenays and a few Ab foothill camping trips that included Llamas.

Alpineguy must have heard about those trips. :lol:

Sometimes the owner is willing to take turns. ;)



When researching pack Llamas be sure to look for negative aspects as well. Those breeder sites paint a pretty picture.

A Pot-Belly Vietnamese Pig would make a better pack animal, pig can pack your tent and gear up the hill, you eat the pig at the top of hill,,,

[Grizzly Adams]

I'd suggest doing a little more research in regards to talking to people who have actually tried it. The reports and stories I have heard are they can be really stubborn and frustrating. There has been more than one llama shot by its owner!!!!!

Good luck!!

Their tendency to spit at you when they get ****ed would make me do that real quick. :lol: and you've still got to walk.

Grizz

[Mr. Dynamite]

A Pot-Belly Vietnamese Pig would make a better pack animal, pig can pack your tent and gear up the hill, you eat the pig at the top of hill,,,

Best thought yet! Ah bacon!

[Taco]

Llamas are no more stubborn than mules or burros and are sure as hell not prone to stampedin' off cliffs or scatterin' packs over 40 acres like a horse. Like anything else you have to take the time to train and know how to handle your animals properly. Plus in the off season they are cheaper to have around and have a helluva hate-on coyotes

[drake]

It's not a out their trainability....it's about the threat thy pose to our sensitive wild sheep herds. KEEP THEM OUT OF SHEEP COUNTRY

[Taco]

Threat or dislike? All the pathogens are already in the wild herd long before those new world camels showed up.

[elkdump]

a long time friend and business associate of mine has owned a world renowned Outfitting/Guided Big Game Hunting Territory for many years in the Mountains of the NWT, all fly-in hunts, he uses and has used "pack-dogs" for many years with good success,,,
sensible and relatively simple to care for the work dogs ALL year round !

Im sure if he ever seen a Llama in the Alpines where he guides hunters for Dall Sheep for the last 30 years, he would have no problem dispatching the UN-welcome Llama promptly!

[Grizzly Adams]

Llamas are no more stubborn than mules or burros and are sure as hell not prone to stampedin' off cliffs or scatterin' packs over 40 acres like a horse. Like anything else you have to take the time to train and know how to handle your animals properly. Plus in the off season they are cheaper to have around and have a helluva hate-on coyotes

And if you're lucky, you can get one for free along with an ostrich if there are any left. :lol:

Grizz

[calgarychef]

Elk dump ....I'm sure if your outfitter "friend" saw a llama it would be a bit of a miracle don't you think? If he flies in it would be a little hard to fly in a llama, try to keep your thought processes realistically on topic. Also shooting someone else's livestock is a no-no.

[Red Bullets]

I know this is about pack llamas but because everyone is against them in the mountains...goats too probably...so...

Be an employer. Hire ten 17 year old high school kids to pack your gear in and come back a week later and pack your gear out.

I'm sure I remember a time when trophy hunters would hire 20 local people to pack and carry camp while on African safari.

:thinking-006:Now maybe a game-farmed-domesticated-pack-broke mule deer buck. Or a farmed bighorn broke for the pack. These animals can be farmed in Alberta. Wonder if they could be considered a draft animal under the Ag laws?

[Big Daddy Badger]

A Pot-Belly Vietnamese Pig would make a better pack animal, pig can pack your tent and gear up the hill, you eat the pig at the top of hill,,,

I know people that used to use them

They were great.... could eat anything...sure footed and came when called...like dogs.

[abrigger]

What rubbish.

While I will agree there is conclusive evidence that domestic sheep and goats pose a high risk to wild sheep there is nothing conclusive about camalids;

Recommendations:
“Our Risk Assessment indicates that contact between domestic sheep or goats and wild Dall’s sheep or mountain goats would likely result in significant disease in the wild species with substantial negative and long term effects on population dynamics and sustainability. We strongly advise that domestic goats not be used as pack animals, and that domestic sheep and goats not be pastured anywhere in the vicinity of Dall’s sheep or mountain goat ranges within the NWT. [Emphasis is the authors’.] This recommendation is consistent with the practical experience and recommendations of bighorn sheep managers and biologists throughout Canada and the United States. Experience gained from events in the US and southern Canada clearly highlights the substantial economic and social costs associated with trying to remedy the effects of disease introduction to wild sheep populations from
REDUCING DISEASE RISK TO DALL’S SHEEP AND
MOUNTAIN GOATS FROM DOMESTIC LIVESTOCK
POSITION STATEMENT
THE ALASKA CHAPTER OF THE WILDLIFE SOCIETY
Alaska Chapter - TWS Page 7
domestic sheep and goats. Conversely, contact between llamas and wild Dall’s sheep or goats may result in disease in wild species, but there is insufficient data available to clearly assess the role of camelids as a source of disease at this time.

and

Subjective Risk Summary
Probability that camelids will expose wildlife to foreign animal diseases:
Not able to quantify.
Very low.
Magnitude of effect if wildlife is exposed to a foreign animal disease:
Not able to quantify.
High.
Overall risk:
Moderate.

Where as the risk horses can transfer disease is stated to be LOW, which is still not totally safe.

Im sure if horses had the ability to get up into the alpine like llamas can, there risk would be higher.

A lot of ignorance here, horse owners seem to be the worst.

To answer your main question, yes llamas are amazing animals for packing and trekking in the mountains. They can carry 25% of there weight in gear which is 75-100lbs per animal max, though its best to keep loads to 50-75lbs.

They are very intelligent animals, they don't spook and bolt, and are non-destructive. They require little to no feed brought in as they east almost anything. We have spent a week in an area and within 2 days you cant tell we were there. They cause zero destruction and erosion of trails and land. Because they have pads and toe nails they are sure footed and can literally go anywhere.

Of course they have to be well trained and conditioned but they are the superior pack animal in the mountains. You just have to walk.

I have been training and packing with llamas for 5 years. I would be happy to assist you if you are interested in acquiring some packers and training. PM me if you like.

FYI its thought llamas originated in North America and then migrated to south America during the last ice age.

Final note. The last thing I want to do, or any hunter for that matter is endanger our sheep / game population. So there is thought and practice when taking llamas into the mountains.

- keep you animals healthy, don't take sick animals to the mountains
- keep you llamas separate from all other livestock on your farm
- stay on the trail. Treat them like horses and keep them in camps, tethered to a ground stake. Just because they can go anywhere does not mean they should.
- kick there dung piles to distribute them so they dry out faster. They have small dung piles much like a deer so its easy to manage.

[Stonegoat]

I love the idea of pack llamas, however, due to the potential risk to wild sheep, I would never use them where sheep range or may range.

[walking buffalo]

What rubbish.

While I will agree there is conclusive evidence that domestic sheep and goats pose a high risk to wild sheep there is nothing conclusive about camalids;

Recommendations:
“Our Risk Assessment indicates that contact between domestic sheep or goats and wild Dall’s sheep or mountain goats would likely result in significant disease in the wild species with substantial negative and long term effects on population dynamics and sustainability. We strongly advise that domestic goats not be used as pack animals, and that domestic sheep and goats not be pastured anywhere in the vicinity of Dall’s sheep or mountain goat ranges within the NWT. [Emphasis is the authors’.] This recommendation is consistent with the practical experience and recommendations of bighorn sheep managers and biologists throughout Canada and the United States. Experience gained from events in the US and southern Canada clearly highlights the substantial economic and social costs associated with trying to remedy the effects of disease introduction to wild sheep populations from
REDUCING DISEASE RISK TO DALL’S SHEEP AND
MOUNTAIN GOATS FROM DOMESTIC LIVESTOCK
POSITION STATEMENT
THE ALASKA CHAPTER OF THE WILDLIFE SOCIETY
Alaska Chapter - TWS Page 7
domestic sheep and goats. Conversely, contact between llamas and wild Dall’s sheep or goats may result in disease in wild species, but there is insufficient data available to clearly assess the role of camelids as a source of disease at this time.

and

Subjective Risk Summary
Probability that camelids will expose wildlife to foreign animal diseases:
Not able to quantify.
Very low.
Magnitude of effect if wildlife is exposed to a foreign animal disease:
Not able to quantify.
High.
Overall risk:
Moderate.

Where as the risk horses can transfer disease is stated to be LOW, which is still not totally safe.

Im sure if horses had the ability to get up into the alpine like llamas can, there risk would be higher.

A lot of ignorance here, horse owners seem to be the worst.

To answer your main question, yes llamas are amazing animals for packing and trekking in the mountains. They can carry 25% of there weight in gear which is 75-100lbs per animal max, though its best to keep loads to 50-75lbs.

They are very intelligent animals, they don't spook and bolt, and are non-destructive. They require little to no feed brought in as they east almost anything. We have spent a week in an area and within 2 days you cant tell we were there. They cause zero destruction and erosion of trails and land. Because they have pads and toe nails they are sure footed and can literally go anywhere.

Of course they have to be well trained and conditioned but they are the superior pack animal in the mountains. You just have to walk.

I have been training and packing with llamas for 5 years. I would be happy to assist you if you are interested in acquiring some packers and training. PM me if you like.

FYI its thought llamas originated in North America and then migrated to south America during the last ice age.

Final note. The last thing I want to do, or any hunter for that matter is endanger our sheep / game population. So there is thought and practice when taking llamas into the mountains.

- keep you animals healthy, don't take sick animals to the mountains
- keep you llamas separate from all other livestock on your farm
- stay on the trail. Treat them like horses and keep them in camps, tethered to a ground stake. Just because they can go anywhere does not mean they should.
- kick there dung piles to distribute them so they dry out faster. They have small dung piles much like a deer so its easy to manage.


Rubbish? :confused:


Your own supporting information states there is a disease transfer risk with using llamas in wild sheep and goat range. Heck, you even highlighted the fact.

contact between llamas and wild Dall’s sheep or goats may result in disease in wild species, but there is insufficient data available to clearly assess the role of camelids as a source of disease at this time.

[Brink]

Agree with lot's of other's, please keep them out of sheep country, if you want to use them for elk, moose, etc.. be my guest as long as there are not sheep sharing the area, The risk may be minuscule but why take the chance, our next generation is already going to have a hard enough time getting sheep hunting opportunities

[abrigger]

"keep them out of the mountains" Is rubbish.

"contact between llamas and wild Dall’s sheep or goats may result in disease in wild species, but there is insufficient data available to clearly assess the role of camelids as a source of disease at this time."

It clearly states it MAY, not that is does.

High risk: Goats, sheep, cattle.....clear cut case. They DO.

Moderate risk: Camelids, They MAY....inconclusive

Low Risk: Horses. But there is risk.

If you are really concerned about the health of sheep, you should probably leave ALL livestock out of the mountains including horses and dogs. Otherwise you are a tad hypocritical.....

Hunting with pack llamas is hugely popular in the USA. Just google "hunting with llamas". I even saw a cover spread on a popular hunting mag last a while back showcasing llamas. It seems odd this would be happening if llamas in the mountains were the end of Sheep as we know it.

There is the possibility Sheep in the NWT and Alaska are/have been much more separated from "livestock" for a lot longer due to the remoteness of farms and population. This study is quite specific to a geographical location. Maybe, maybe not but it's a valid point.


"Llamas are classified as "farm animals" by the U.S. Dept. of Agriculture. Llamas have been studied and found to be highly resistant to major livestock diseases. There are no cases where a llama has been suspect in the transmission of any livestock disease to other livestock or wildlife. Marked anatomic and physiologic differences between camelids and ruminants exist in many organ systems. This is not surprising since camelids and ruminants have been on separate evolutionary lines for more than 40 million years. Most parasites and diseases are species specific making the possibility of spreading disease or parasites to native wildlife extremely remote"

http://www.llama-llocater.com/hiking_llamas.html

[walking buffalo]

Abrigger,

Your support the use of llamas in wild sheep and goat ranges appears to be simply based on the current evidence stating that there has yet to be a proven case of disease transfer. I certainly disagree with your line of thinking that we shouldn't take measures to protect wildlife until after they are infected through interactions with livestock.

I prefer to accept the research from the same science stating that disease transfer between camelids is possible, just as it is from other domestic animals such as cattle, sheep and goats. This fact alone is reason enough to NOT use llamas in sheep country. Lets be proactive in protecting our wildlife.

[JTRED]

I happened across an article on pack burros/donkeys and it kind of made me want one. I've hired them in N. Africa and Turkey and I was amazed at their surefootedness(is this a word?), endurance, and strength. As a backpacker I think a single donkey would be would be a real asset for a longer stay in the alpine. The article I read stated that relative to size they can pack more weight than either horses or mules, didn't require shoeing(they are native to N. African terrain), and with proper training were not as stubborn as mules. The best part was that they are not picky concerning feed and don't consider themselves prey so are less likely to run then horses. Another article in the same magazine also discussed the link between alpacas and the spread of disease to wild sheep populations. Camp would be a much more luxurious with the addition of a single donkey. Sorry if that kind of kind of sidetracked your post.

[ovis40]

10x with everyone saying to keep llamas out of wild sheep country. Anyone still thinking about doing it after reading this post should have their head read. Ship them all back to SA.

[Tuxie]

I'm not a llama owner, but reading the entire thread, the arguments made by the anti-llama would justify keeping all domesticated animals out of sheep country. Also the multiple comments coming from the pro horse crowed about shooting other peoples livestock because they don't share there opinion, I find pretty ignorant. You shoot at my animals and my hunting party, better expect a follow up shot.