Ammunition and Firefighting

[CheeseBurger]

This video came up in discussion tonight at the Calgary wing night and I thought I would post it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOXowwC4c

[oldgutpile]

Great clip. Is this standard training info for most departments? I would think with all the "hoarding" going on at present, that this situation is more than likely to occur.

[RBI]

This video came up in discussion tonight at the Calgary wing night and I thought I would post it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOXowwC4c

Thanks Cheesebuger, good visit last night , I believe the count of attending was about 17 , was interesting to see what you're doing with building your own smoker. Looking forward to more Wed night wings and visits

[.257Weatherby]

I have some personal experience with ammo falling into a fire (campfire) and some intentional set off .
22 Rimfire in a buddies shirt pocket leans over campfire to poke and prod logs in fire.
Ammo falls into fire and detonates, feels something hit his chest and then gets surprisingly warmer when seated back in chair I look over and see blood on his shirt and then we notice small bump in shirt.
Open shirt and remove piece of brass from chest.... another was some intentionally .22 ammo set off by placing on that old solid b-bque starter, place round on it, ignite it and watch it go off...pulled many a piece of lead from the garage wall and ceiling.
I do not recommend anyone try those stunts nor do I recommend anyone test the SAMMI video clip as well.
BTW, how close was the nearest videographer in the video?
Tight Groups,
Rob

[bat119]

Excellent video !

Thanks for posting that

[Jack&7]

Thanks for posting that, CB....very interesting video.

It was a very interesting conversation last night and I am sorry I had to leave just as it was getting good. I will say this, though:

I had a different view from what the people at SAMMI were stating. I kinda got the feel they took a bit of a biased view on the actual safety hazards involved and that doesn't surprise me...they have a vested interest in people having the impression that ammo is safe in a fire. However, I did agree with the statement from the video that we (firefighters) would treat a supply of ammo, regardless of size, like any other hazard we would encounter. We had a fire recently downtown in an apartment that had a small supply of ammo involved and once discovered, it was immediately announced to all personnel on scene and isolated. Situational awareness is key.

With that being said, I felt SAMMI were a little nonchalant about the amount of 'impacts' the ammo would make when a firefighter was in close proximity. Just looking at the gyproc wall boards during the retail store simulation told me all I needed to know. I see no reason to even try to extinguish that fire from the distance that they did if there are no life safety issues (victims) involved. I think it would be safer to take a defensive stance rather than an offensive fire attack.

And I also questioned some of the safety practices used during the actual filming of this clip.

But two things that struck me: how great of an effect the chamber and barrel of the gun play on the velocity of the exploded round...

and how fighting a fire of an ammo dump would be somewhat akin to trying to stop popcorn from popping! :bad_boys_20:

[Jack&7]

Great clip. Is this standard training info for most departments? I would think with all the "hoarding" going on at present, that this situation is more than likely to occur.


Short answer: no

Unfortunately, if someone has a massive amount of ammo in their house and it goes up in flames, we would not know that until we started hearing the ammo going off...which (hopefully) would immediately change the strategy of the incident commander in attacking that fire. Most likely to a defensive attack...surround and drown.

[elkdump]

If my house catches fire it will look like, BAGHDAD 2003 ( Shock & Awe )

although I doubt CNN will be one site ! :sSc_hiding:

[bosshog]

if someone has a massive amount of ammo in their house

I had asked a firefighter buddy of mine who was helping frame my basement if it was recommended that I call the nearest firehall and let them know that I have ammo on the premisis. He said it wasnt needed. This makes me re-think that so that if there is a fire and it is known ahead of time the proper plans can be made. If for nothing else, the safety of the firefighters.

Any thoughts on this?

[Jack&7]

That was also discussed a little bit last night. And on its face, it makes sense. In a perfect world, I would love to know every single hazard we face on every building we approach...but it just isn't feasible. We do this for major ocupancies (industrial, commercial, etc.).....for example, we know where the biological labs and chemicals are stored at the U of C and have pre-plans in place to deal with them.

The problem arises when you look at residential occupancies. There are a bazillion houses storing a bazillion chemicals, propane tanks, jerry cans, ammo, etc., etc. And these 'hazards' are not static. They move and change all day...every day. There is no way a fire department could manage that amount of info and keep it current. Not to mention, you would never get full compliance from the public anyway. People who think like you apparently do might be willing to provide that info...but the couch potatoes, crackheads, and those who don't want 'big brother' knowing how much ammo they have would never comply.

Of course, what I have said above is referring to an urban setting. In a more rural area, I am sure the local volunteer department might appreciate knowing that Farmer Bob's place will look like a Chinese fireworks factory if it catches fire!

[CNP]

I had asked a firefighter buddy of mine who was helping frame my basement if it was recommended that I call the nearest firehall and let them know that I have ammo on the premisis. He said it wasnt needed. This makes me re-think that so that if there is a fire and it is known ahead of time the proper plans can be made. If for nothing else, the safety of the firefighters.

Any thoughts on this?

When calling in a fire it would make sense. Ahead of time........no

[densa44]

We can always use posts like this where you can learn something.

Thank you.

[bosshog]

Thanks Jack and ehntr. That makes sense, with the amount of hazardous materials around it would be more of a burden to log it all and look it up on the chance it might be needed.

[mark-edmonton]

We had a garage fire a few years back and the home owner stored all his 762x39 in there. Was poping like popcorn the whole time we were firefighting