Hunting around outfitters

[diesel fixer]

Heading up to the bait site this morning and met a outfitter who was getting ready for his season. Really nice guy and I knew roughly where he hunts and didn't want to set up our bait close to his because its my first time bear hunting and didn't want to interfere with his operation. After talking to him I found out that he baits every km of the river for about 45-50 km. I ended up having bait in "his" area that "he's been baiting at for 10 years" as I didn't know he came down river that far. I know he does this for a living and all and we discussed possible safety concerns of hunting close to each other but am I wrong to think that it seems a bit excessive to have bait every km?. i am pretty easy going and he was nice enough to offer to help us set up on a spot down river but there is a reason that we wanted to be a bit further up, less traffic and its a bit closer to where we usually fish and camp.

On another note my bait got hit yesterday for the first time by a beautiful little cinnamon bear… Didn't realize how exciting it would be!!!

[pikergolf]

If he's got 45 to 50 baits set out, he can work around you. If he interferes with your hunt turn him in.

[elkhunter11]

I certainly wouldn't set my own baits only one kilometer apart. It sounds to me like he fed you a story to keep you out of the area that he likes to hunt.

[missingtwo]

Nice guy. But, I bet he fed you something that comes out the south end of a north facing male bovine.

[stevens]

That does not sound right 45 to 50 baits whats he doing feeding every bear in the country. I can't imagine even an outfitter having that many baits set up but maybe either way should be room for you to do your thing I would think.

[Lefty-Canuck]

i certainly wouldn't set my own baits only one kilometer apart. It sounds to me like he fed you a story to keep you out of the area that he likes to hunt.

x2....the same bear could hit 10 of his baits, defeats the purpose IMHO :)

Lc

[huntin]

who's the outfitter?

[huntinstuff]

50 baits 1000 m apart?

Maybe he is new to baiting too. Lol

He gave u a line. Find an area that is away from his and set up ur bait

[Torkdiesel]

I used to run up to 60 baits some years. But they were a minimum of 4-5 km's away from each other. Like it was stated before he was likely feeding you a line.
That being said you prob don't want to set up that close to his baits anyway. Big boars will gladly walk a km or two to feed at a bait with no hunter sitting in the tree. Good luck with the bears.

[cpppark]

Bait where you want to bait and let him work around you.

[Red Bullets]

Just be sure to put just a little sweeter more fragrant bait in your barrel than the outfitter has in his. And then be sure to tell him about the 7 ft. honey blonde bear you shot over your one bait... the first hour on the first day in the stand.

[diesel fixer]

Im not going to name the outfitter cause like I said im pretty easy going and he wasnt really an jerk about it or anything but it definitely had me wondering how baiting works and if I should have more than 1 or 2 set up.

[broadfieldpoint]

I hear what you are saying and appreciate that you arent out to start trouble with the outfitter.

I know lots of black bear outfitters across several provinces (Alberta- Sask- Manitoba) and I have never heard of any outfitter that baits less than 3 km per bait. It just doesnt happen that way. Infact, most wont bait less than 5 km per bait. Bears travel....sometimes a long ways.

I know its already been said but, I do have to say that at this point, I do suspect that the outfitter may be trying to discourage you. I think there is a delicate balance in these types of situations. Usually, there is enough land in any wmu for the public. When hunting near a river with limited access, this can further complicate matters.

My recommendation is this, bait where ever you want to and notify the outfitter of it. As long as it isnt a historic spot for him, he should accomodate you. Better to have good relations in the bush than enemies.

[bighorn88]

Hate to say it but most oufitters will say a lot of things to keep you out of their area. Tried being nice and shared information only to find out any information I received was useless.

[broadfieldpoint]

If he's got 45 to 50 baits set out, he can work around you. If he interferes with your hunt turn him in.


This sounds harsh...but, in the end, I agree with this. The WMU's are for everyone not just the outfitters.

[elkhunter11]

Im not going to name the outfitter cause like I said im pretty easy going and he wasnt really an jerk about it or anything but it definitely had me wondering how baiting works and if I should have more than 1 or 2 set up.

So you don't consider lying to you, to try and make you go elsewhere, not being a jerk. :thinking-006:

[Red Bullets]

I hear what you are saying and appreciate that you arent out to start trouble with the outfitter.

I know lots of black bear outfitters across several provinces (Alberta- Sask- Manitoba) and I have never heard of any outfitter that baits less than 3 km per bait. It just doesnt happen that way. Infact, most wont bait less than 5 km per bait. Bears travel....sometimes a long ways.

I know its already been said but, I do have to say that at this point, I do suspect that the outfitter may be trying to discourage you. I think there is a delicate balance in these types of situations. Usually, there is enough land in any wmu for the public. When hunting near a river with limited access, this can further complicate matters.

My recommendation is this, bait where ever you want to and notify the outfitter of it. As long as it isnt a historic spot for him, he should accomodate you. Better to have good relations in the bush than enemies.



The only delicate balance to be concerned with is that the outfitter and the hunter both know it is crown land and anyone can set up and hunt. That is how traditions are started in any camp. Then the hunter and the outfitter will just have to worry about the balance when someone else is coming and doing their traditional stalk in between their two baitsites.


I wouldn't notify the outfitter of anything. As far as the outfitter accommodating anyone.....that is downright funny. The outfitter is lucky the rest of us hunters are accommodating him on our public lands.

[broadfieldpoint]

The only delicate balance to be concerned with is that the outfitter and the hunter both know it is crown land and anyone can set up and hunt. That is how traditions are started in any camp. Then the hunter and the outfitter will just have to worry about the balance when someone else is coming and doing their traditional stalk in between their two baitsites.


I wouldn't notify the outfitter of anything. As far as the outfitter accommodating anyone.....that is downright funny. The outfitter is lucky the rest of us hunters are accommodating him on our public lands.


I agree with you. Crown land is for all to use and enjoy. The only reason why I recommended notifying the Outfitter is for the sake of integrity. Why have the outfitter in your bait sites when he has 50 of his own :)

[Red Bullets]

I agree with you. Crown land is for all to use and enjoy. The only reason why I recommended notifying the Outfitter is for the sake of integrity. Why have the outfitter in your bait sites when he has 50 of his own :)

I too agree that integrity and being considerate and cordial are important to all land users. It is good to work together when seeking the same common goals.

An outfitter could come into my baitsite as long as I can go into his baitsites.:)
Not sure I would trust all outfitters though, just because money changes the game. I wouldn't want to ruin one of his hunters' paid hunts and neither should he want to ruin my hunt.

[casual observer]

The responses here are hilarious. It's awesome for the situational irony.

I agree with the screw the outfitter sentiment but especially so this time. Some of you though make me giggle because you love this one so much. Here's a hint; check the op's location And think for a minute. I can't wait for the light bulbs to go on and the back peddling to begin.

[Ultimate Predator]

Baited lots up north of ft Mac sounds like savage encounters to me had lots of run ins with those guys they even sat a couple guys on my baits if it is don't believe a word they say carry on with your bait like others say keep your bait a little tastier not hard to beat a pile of oats on the ground good luck

[Blackwolf]

its crown land...its up near Ft. McMurray. Sounds like the outfitter wants the area to himself. Play nice, but this is your land too. The outfitter should be finding a place and leasing hunting rights from the owner. Ran into an outfitter last year, he put up a fence on crown land, and gated it. Then he gets his guys out on quads to push the game into "his" area.

We rode into the area and were confronted by the outfitter. I reported him to the mnr, nothing will happen to him....

[FCLightning]

The outfitter should be finding a place and leasing hunting rights from the owner.

He definitely should not be doing this.

[elkhunter11]

The outfitter should be finding a place and leasing hunting rights from the owner.

You obviously have no clue as to the laws in Alberta.

[pdfish]

Hate to say it but most oufitters will say a lot of things to keep you out of their area. Tried being nice and shared information only to find out any information I received was useless.

Or do a lot, like the one south of stony that took down 2 of my tree stands last fall, stashed them in the bush and lied to my face about doing it. They are not to be trusted.

[BuckHunterBowen]

Or do a lot, like the one south of stony that took down 2 of my tree stands last fall, stashed them in the bush and lied to my face about doing it. They are not to be trusted.


I had an alberta resident steal a trail camera from me last year...they can't be trusted....:thinking-006:

[Torkdiesel]

Or do a lot, like the one south of stony that took down 2 of my tree stands last fall, stashed them in the bush and lied to my face about doing it. They are not to be trusted.

So what did F&W do when you logged a formal complaint against him ??? Dis APOS respond to your complaint ?

You people make me laugh. One guy agrees with the "Screw the outfitter opinion sentiment" another claims an outfitter "fenced in crown land and gated it, then had people push the game onto that land with quads"
I've never heard so many people whine and cry in my life. Everybody has heard a story from their uncle Tom about his buddy that was fighting with the evil poaching outfitter.

The outfitter has no more rights on crown land then any resident. The major difference is when you haul out 500 pounds of bait to your one stand and spend a total of 10 days a year hunting and baiting (obviously some residents do a lot more I'm just talking the normal joe blow bear hunter) He hauls 60-90,0000 pounds and spends 8 straight weeks out there. When you run that many baits you tie up a lot of area. The O.P. first stated the outfitter told him "He baits every km of the river for 45-50 km's" He didn't say he had a bait at every km marker, that was interpreted.
When I had residents hunting in the zone I was outfitting in I told them the truth about where my baits where, I didn't lie to them. And I tied up a lot of ground as well. I would point out areas I didn't have baits near by or let them know that just 10 km's further north was the next WMU and the outfitter there wasn't actively baiting. Was I an ass hole for saying that ? I was just being honest with them. Most local hunters where great, some had the typical "I hate outfitters" attitude and said "Screw you, I'll bait where ever I want to" and they where perfectly within their rights to do so. I either moved my hunters to another bait or pounded that area before the resident even started to hunt it.
To the O.P. I'm glad you found a spot of your own where you don't have to fight and argue with somebody over hurt feelings. Good luck on getting that big colour phase boar.

[Blackwolf]

You obviously have no clue as to the laws in Alberta.

So clue me in.... outfitters not allowed to use private land????

[bobalong]

So clue me in.... outfitters not allowed to use private land????

You are not legally allowed to pay, or compensate landowners in any way for private land access in Alberta.

[drake]

its crown land...its up near Ft. McMurray. Sounds like the outfitter wants the area to himself. Play nice, but this is your land too. The outfitter should be finding a place and leasing hunting rights from the owner. Ran into an outfitter last year, he put up a fence on crown land, and gated it. Then he gets his guys out on quads to push the game into "his" area.

We rode into the area and were confronted by the outfitter. I reported him to the mnr, nothing will happen to him....

A fence?? That's one of the best yarns I've read on here in a while!!

[Dog hunter]

If he does indeed have that many baits ,I would consider him greedy man and hunt over one of his baits out of spite , but i'm like that

[Torkdiesel]

If he does indeed have that many baits ,I would consider him greedy man and hunt over one of his baits out of spite , but i'm like that

How many baits do you think an outfitter should run for 30-40 bear hunters ???
If you went on a guided bear hunt and found out the outfitter only had 15 baits out and you were hunting in a spot where 4 bears had already been killed, how would you feel ?
Hunting over one of his baits intentionally is a good way to have your boat "accidently" float away down the river one night. Or worse yet have one of those young guides come into the stand and knock out all your teeth, but I'm like that ;(

[The Yukon Kid]

I agree with Tork,

There may be some jerk outfitters but there also lots of jerk hunters out there. The outfitter sounded like he was honestly letting the op know what area he was using and in no way telling his he couldn't go there but the op should know that it would be better to find a site away from the outfitters as then he wouldn't be competing with him. Ya and 50 km or river is used nowhere did he say he had 50 baits out. I've seen outfitters with over 130 baits in there area. They run alot of hunters and need the sites. Then you get some people on here stating just out bait him and make your site better. Well that can be done but when you have guides in the area baiting everyday for 60-70 days with all kinds of goodies a weekend warrior has trouble competing.

[The Yukon Kid]

And the last residents i ran into was a group of young guys and I was pulling all my baits I told them a couple of good spots that where near where they were staying and gave them the last beaver that I wasn't in need of after of course we shared a pop or 2 bsing. Usually its not to hard to get along with other fellow hunters.

[Dog hunter]

How many baits do you think an outfitter should run for 30-40 bear hunters ???
If you went on a guided bear hunt and found out the outfitter only had 15 baits out and you were hunting in a spot where 4 bears had already been killed, how would you feel ?
Hunting over one of his baits intentionally is a good way to have your boat "accidently" float away down the river one night. Or worse yet have one of those young guides come into the stand and knock out all your teeth, but I'm like that ;(

Well they could spread it out better rather than take over the whole area maybe share a bit with the weekenders thats all.If was worried about losing teeth i wouldnt sit in an outfitters stand:)

[Lefty-Canuck]

Crown Land is for everyone...for anyone (outfitter or non-outfitter) to think they are entitled to monopolize an area for their use only....especially 40-50km or river bank shoreline is just foolish.

LC

[elkhunter11]

Crown Land is for everyone...for anyone (outfitter or non-outfitter) to think they are entitled to monopolize an area for their use only....especially 40-50km or river bank shoreline is just foolish.

Exactly, when you set up a bait on crown land, you take your chances that the bears may go from bait to bait, and you end up with nothing. And if someone is stupid enough to try and pull crap like messing with someone else's baits or their private property, because they are hunting the same area, they may end up getting themselves into a lot of trouble that they hadn't planned on.

[pdfish]

So what did F&W do when you logged a formal complaint against him ??? Dis APOS respond to your complaint ?



First, I had a nice chat with my F&W neighbour about him, they are aware of some of his antics. If anything happens again, I know who to call immediately. Also showed the landowner the video I have of him trespassing (yes I have proof) with bolt cutters in hand, but being a neighbour he doesn't want to stir the pot, which I understand. As far as APOS goes, I have less faith in them than in a Redford led government. Any organization that allows/turns a blind eye to convicted poachers amongst its members is a farce. Outfitters, like law enforcement members, judges, etc have to be held to a higher standard, period.

Sorry for the slight derail, go set up a bait in a good area, outfitter or not. Post pics when you arrow a monster bruin.

[Red Bullets]

How many baits do you think an outfitter should run for 30-40 bear hunters ???If you went on a guided bear hunt and found out the outfitter only had 15 baits out and you were hunting in a spot where 4 bears had already been killed, how would you feel ?
Hunting over one of his baits intentionally is a good way to have your boat "accidently" float away down the river one night. Or worse yet have one of those young guides come into the stand and knock out all your teeth, but I'm like that ;(

I do agree that for 40 bear hunters a outfitter would have to have minimum 2 or 3 baits per hunter. and like you mentioned a bit of tonnage of bait foodstuffs. No easy task. When you mentioned 60 baits, I thought that many baits would maybe support 15 to 20 hunters over the season.

While I may have suggested that there is no need to make contact with an outfitter in the same hunting area, I do beleive that honourable outfitters do deserve respect for the efforts they put into ensuring a quality hunt for their hunters. Baitsite jumping is the same as claim jumping in gold country. Jumpers may require adjustments of some kind.

[bobalong]

Crown Land is for everyone...for anyone (outfitter or non-outfitter) to think they are entitled to monopolize an area for their use only....especially 40-50km or river bank shoreline is just foolish.

LC

Some of them try the same with waterfowl hunting, deer hunting, moose hunting etc. etc. Stating that because you feel that you "need" exclusivity, resident hunters should step a side, or move on, is what causes a lot of the conflict between outfitters and resident hunters.

I would never suggest hunting over someone else's setup, or blind, but outfitters have to also appreciate that a lot of resident hunters are not willing to give up a hunting area, just to accommodate them.

[Torkdiesel]

I do agree that for 40 bear hunters a outfitter would have to have minimum 2 or 3 baits per hunter. and like you mentioned a bit of tonnage of bait foodstuffs. No easy task. When you mentioned 60 baits, I thought that many baits would maybe support 15 to 20 hunters over the season.

While I may have suggested that there is no need to make contact with an outfitter in the same hunting area, I do beleive that honourable outfitters do deserve respect for the efforts they put into ensuring a quality hunt for their hunters. Baitsite jumping is the same as claim jumping in gold country. Jumpers may require adjustments of some kind.

60 baits was for 24 hunters. Averaged taking 30-35 bears a year out of the area and we never ran out of descent bears for our hunters.
A guide I know worked for an outfitter up north of Fort Mac that was taking out 60 bear hunters a year. That's a freaken pile of work.

I always found if you treated people like humans most people are very descent. If you are confrontational or carry a sense of entitlement you will offend people. As I stated before outfitters have no more right to a specific piece of crown land then any resident, but if they establish a bait site there first, residents should respect that. Just like outfitters should respect residents when they establish a bait site in a area first.