Anyone else would be fired

[Klondike]

But not these guys
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/05/09/rcmp-officer-guilty

Court documents show Martin used the VISA credit card to buy the two helmets from Cycle Works West for $684.84 sometime between Dec. 22, 2010, and May 19, 2011. Martin never repaid the money.

According to the agreed facts, the helmets were brought back to the Spruce Grove detachment after the complaint was filed and investigated in an attempt to pass them off as a legitimate RCMP purchase.


A thief and a lier......? And they wonder why they lost the respect of the public. Sheez is this crap ever going to end.:angry3:

[elkhunter11]

Of course he should be fired, but I doubt that it will happen. Instead this criminal will continue to be paid to uphold our laws. What a joke the RCMP has become.

[leeaspell]

He just needs some hugs.

[roper1]

Fraud & bad behavior exists in all police forces but it truly makes you wonder if it is time for our own provincial force or a system like Montana's. The RCMP have lost the trust of so much of the public & had such huge screw-ups maybe not possible for them to become relevant again. I have had no personal dealings with them for decades but my respect for them wanes with each passing year. On the other hand, Rick Hanson APPEARS to be doing a top-notch job leading his people by example.

[twofifty]

But not these guys
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/05/09/rcmp-officer-guilty

Court documents show Martin used the VISA credit card to buy the two helmets from Cycle Works West for $684.84 sometime between Dec. 22, 2010, and May 19, 2011. Martin never repaid the money.

According to the agreed facts, the helmets were brought back to the Spruce Grove detachment after the complaint was filed and investigated in an attempt to pass them off as a legitimate RCMP purchase.


A thief and a lier......? And they wonder why they lost the respect of the public. Sheez is this crap ever going to end.:angry3:

Bringing them to the detachment after the investigation has started should result in obstruction of justice charges. Let's see if the RCMP is able to police itself this time, for once.

[leeaspell]

Fraud & bad behavior exists in all police forces but it truly makes you wonder if it is time for our own provincial force or a system like Montana's. The RCMP have lost the trust of so much of the public & had such huge screw-ups maybe not possible for them to become relevant again. I have had no personal dealings with them for decades but my respect for them wanes with each passing year. On the other hand, Rick Hanson APPEARS to be doing a top-notch job leading his people by example.

But have they lost the trust? How many ppl never watch the news? There's a lot of stories I would never have heard of except for this forum, especially in regards to a topic like this. Usually it's tucked way back the the part of the paper that no body reads.

[roper1]

But have they lost the trust? How many ppl never watch the news? There's a lot of stories I would never have heard of except for this forum, especially in regards to a topic like this. Usually it's tucked way back the the part of the paper that no body reads.

Good point.

[trooper]

Good point.

I know of a police officer in Edmonton traffic div who attended a scene where the driver of a vehicle died at the scene. This officer removed a number of items from the trunk and gave said items to his three boys and his wife at the time.
I know of this because I dated that wife after she divorced him. The incident was brought before his superiors and he wasn't punished for the crime at all as he was close to retirement.

[sureshot]

RCMP are a joke and need to be disbanded.

[bobinthesky]

He's only one cop... last year there were a couple of hundred RCMP in High River that didn't know right from wrong!

[macee]

I feel bad for this guy he only stole $680 from the Government and is up on criminal charges were the Red Queen stole thousands of dollars from us and goes on as almost nothing happened.( And yes I am being sarcastic)They are all a bunch of crooks.

[Ricktye]

Good point! Of course he was wrong for what he did, especially in a position of trust. Having said that, I sure hope the rest of you hypocrites so quick to jump on the band wagon, have never stole a pen from work? I'm confident none of you have ever been speeding or smoked dope or??? Get off your high horses! What puts YOUabove the law? Your sense of entitlement???

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but think before you speak!

R...

I feel bad for this guy he only stole $680 from the Government and is up on criminal charges were the Red Queen stole thousands of dollars from us and goes on as almost nothing happened.( And yes I am being sarcastic)They are all a bunch of crooks.

[1899b]

Good point! Of course he was wrong for what he did, especially in a position of trust. Having said that, I sure hope the rest of you hypocrites so quick to jump on the band wagon, have never stole a pen from work? I'm confident none of you have ever been speeding or smoked dope or??? Get off your high horses! What puts YOUabove the law? Your sense of entitlement???

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but think before you speak!

R...

Everyones a crook to some sort of degree. Its to what extent is the question. Where should the line be drawn? Some jaywalk and some do a buck 40 headin south on hwy 2 to Nisku for work.


However, the people that should uphold these laws, while still human, should do their best to show an example.

If you or i did this with the corporate credit card, the irony is that this officer could be the one investigating if your company presses charges.........

[hollowleg]

On leave with pay, hmmm, that should help recoup the helmet cost. phyeatric test for a credit card theft. Wouldn't be any test for us lowly citizens. Poor man was probably still traumatized from the Mayorthorpe incident and couldn't help himself. Has he not suffered enough already?

[Sneeze]

Good point! Of course he was wrong for what he did, especially in a position of trust. Having said that, I sure hope the rest of you hypocrites so quick to jump on the band wagon, have never stole a pen from work? I'm confident none of you have ever been speeding or smoked dope or??? Get off your high horses! What puts YOUabove the law? Your sense of entitlement???

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but think before you speak!

R...

Me. I don't steal nor smoke drugs. I try damn hard not to speed and live everyday with a clean conscience.

Rcmp are thugs and bullies. The view from my horse is excellent.

[Ricktye]

I agree with you. But I was just trying to make a point.... I love my job to, but it doesn't give me the RIGHT to speed to get there. I seriously doubt buying a couple of helmets will/would ever cause anyone injury or death whereas speeding does everyday. It's the potential seriousness me thinks. One cost a few hundred bucks the other could cost tens or hundred of thousands.... You're right, it is the potential extent...

R...

Everyones a crook to some sort of degree. Its to what extent is the question. Where should the line be drawn? Some jaywalk and some do a buck 40 headin south on hwy 2 to Nisku for work.


However, the people that should uphold these laws, while still human, should do their best to show an example.

If you or i did this with the corporate credit card, the irony is that this officer could be the one investigating if your company presses charges.........

[elkhunter11]

Everyones a crook to some sort of degree. Its to what extent is the question. Where should the line be drawn? Some jaywalk and some do a buck 40 headin south on hwy 2 to Nisku for work.


However, the people that should uphold these laws, while still human, should do their best to show an example.

If you or i did this with the corporate credit card, the irony is that this officer could be the one investigating if your company presses charges.........

Jaywalking isn't a violation of our criminal code, and neither are most instances of exceeding the posted speed limit. For that reason, a conviction of those charges, doesn't result in a criminal record, and they don't result in serious sentences. On the other hand fraud is a criminal act, so someone that commits fraud is a criminal, and should be treated as such. This officer willingly accepted money to uphold the very law that he violated, so seeing as how he can't be trusted to uphold our laws, he should not be paid to enforce them.

[Wild&Free]

Fraud can be rectified by repayment, loss of life to excessive speeding cannot.

he should be required to repay and have his expenses monitored. remember training of an officer does cost taxpayers a fair amount and throwing them out the door for a lapse in judgement is a poor use of resources.

a good Singapore style caning would help too.

[Sneeze]

he should be required to repay and have his expenses monitored. .

Does your generous offer of judgement also apply to car thieves? Shoplifters? Individuals who defraud seniors?

Pay back what you stole and life goes on?

[twofifty]

It is the man's 2nd lapse in judgment.
The first lapse that we know of was in Mayerthorpe.

[elkhunter11]

he should be required to repay and have his expenses monitored. remember training of an officer does cost taxpayers a fair amount and throwing them out the door for a lapse in judgement is a poor use of resources.
.

So are you also in favor of doing the same with all thieves, embezzlers, and con men that cheat people out of their life savings? Remember, it costs a lot of the taxpayer's money to take them through the courts, and provide food and shelter for them in jail.:rolleye2:

[Mr Conservation]

It is the man's 2nd lapse in judgment.
The first lapse that we know of was in Mayerthorpe.

While I am not defending the actions of this officer, I do wonder whether Post Traumatic Stress Disorder played a role.

For what he had to go through, and now has to live with due to the events in Mayerthorpe, it is my understanding that PTSD can cause a person to do things they would normally not do. PTSD may not manifest itself for several years.

Just wondering.....

Mr Conservation

[Wild&Free]

So are you also in favor of doing the same with all thieves, embezzlers, and con men that cheat people out of their life savings? Remember, it costs a lot of the taxpayer's money to take them through the courts, and provide food and shelter for them in jail.:rolleye2:

Justice is not about punishment but seeking remedy to injustice. if he paid it back then he has remedied the injustice and no cost for court or jail. monitoring his expenses is punishment for not being honest. All men are innocent until proven guilty, and upon making amends should be forgiven, but not forgotten(hence the monitoring and record keeping).

Every situation and circumstance must be evaluated and proper remedy assigned by a jury of peers. this is why at one point in western society honor killings were legal as juries would want to maintain the right to kill the man who shot my brother so to speak. The law of the land is much different then the laws at sea. learn the difference and see why government and police control over society has grown so much over the past 200 years or so.

[elkhunter11]

Justice is not about punishment but seeking remedy to injustice. if he paid it back then he has remedied the injustice and no cost for court or jail. monitoring his expenses is punishment for not being honest. All men are innocent until proven guilty, and upon making amends should be forgiven, but not forgotten(hence the monitoring).

Every situation and circumstance must be evaluated and proper remedy assigned by a jury of peers. this is why at one point in western society honor killings were legal as juries would want to maintain the right to kill the man who shot my brother so to speak. The law of the land is much different then the laws at sea. learn the difference and see why government and police control over society has grown so much over the past 200 years or so.

Not surprisingly, you totally avoided the question, so I will repeat it, although, once again, I expect that you will avoid answering the question.

So are you also in favor of doing the same with all thieves, embezzlers, and con men that cheat people out of their life savings? Remember, it costs a lot of the taxpayer's money to take them through the courts, and provide food and shelter for them in jail.

[Wild&Free]

Every situation and circumstance is different. I do not believe in one blanket policy to deal with a multitude of events. So the answer to your question is No.

life is not simple, but if all you want is simple answers then by all means carry on.

[Wild&Free]

Double post.

[rugatika]

Every situation and circumstance is different. I do not believe in one blanket policy to deal with a multitude of events. So the answer to your question is No.

life is not simple, but if all you want is simple answers then by all means carry on.

So you're for arbitrary application of the law then?

[Wild&Free]

So you're for arbitrary application of the law then?

If the arbitrators are a jury of peers then Yes.

Should shorten your signature Rugs. It's longer then a lot of your posts.:love0025:

[elkhunter11]

Every situation and circumstance is different. I do not believe in one blanket policy to deal with a multitude of events. So the answer to your question is No.

So what makes this any different, than any other case where a person steals money from the company he works for? Take for example the person that worked for the city of Edmonton, that collected money from parking meters, and stole part of it. I guess that he should have just given the money back, kept his job, and then be monitored? How about the bank employees that steal from the bank? Shouldn't they just give back the money, keep their job and be monitored? What makes this situation any different?

[Wild&Free]

His organization determines employability, the law sets methods for remedy.

I know of several instances where there has been theft and fraud at a workplace and the employers and management handled the situation in exactly the way I have outlined. All men are equal, he deserves the same treatment.

[elkhunter11]

His organization determines employability, the law sets methods for remedy.

I know of several instances where there has been theft and fraud at a workplace and the employers and management handled the situation in exactly the way I have outlined. All men are equal, he deserves the same treatment.

And I know of instances where people were fired, and prosecuted for defrauding their employers, or defrauding insurance companies, so no, all men are not equal, and they are not all treated equally.

[Wild&Free]

And I know of instances where people were fired, and prosecuted for defrauding their employers, or defrauding insurance companies, so no, all men are not equal, and they are not all treated equally.

Which just proves my original point in this exchange, every situation is different and should be handled differently. thank you.

you gonna let me come look for morels?

[elkhunter11]

you gonna let me come look for morels?


You would probably find more where you are. The growing conditions are likely more suitable for them.:)

[Wild&Free]

You would probably find more where you are. The growing conditions are likely more suitable for them.:)

Ya, my bad it was a different guy with elk in his name that I bugged about picking on his land.

Best picking I ever did was in the Yukon though. sure Ft Mac would have them growing.

I'll not derail anymore, just excited to go mushrooming :)

[twofifty]

While I am not defending the actions of this officer, I do wonder whether Post Traumatic Stress Disorder played a role.

For what he had to go through, and now has to live with due to the events in Mayerthorpe, it is my understanding that PTSD can cause a person to do things they would normally not do. PTSD may not manifest itself for several years.

Just wondering.....

Mr Conservation

Yeah, PTSD may well be part of it.

I wonder if after the murders it occurred to head office that this guy would need counselling, and whether he was offered and received some.

This officer was not present when the others were ambushed, but no doubt he had a first hand look at the crime scene. It is likely he experienced a deep sense of leadership failure and is having trouble dealing with the complex emotional fallout.

Hopefully the courts are able to sort it out. Hmmm, not likely.

Regardless of the outcome if I were a rank and file member, I would not want this man as my detachment head. And if I lived in the same town, I wouldn't want him on duty in any capacity. The guy is but a 3rd lapse in judgment away from another disaster.

[Burglecut83]

obviously the man was aware hes not supposed to use his expense car to buy helmets for his kids. He is a crook. The law is the law. Do your time and move on

[NEWB]

obviously the man was aware hes not supposed to use his expense car to buy helmets for his kids. He is a crook. The law is the law. Do your time and move on

Meh..

You just get moved to another divsion... I stopped taking the RCMP seriously a long time ago.

Anyone remember this one from only a few short years ago?

Polygraph unit commander of the K division?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-mountie-rapped-for-drinking-sex-with-subordinates-1.1233088


"A senior Edmonton RCMP officer who hosted drinking parties in his office and pressured female subordinates to have sex with him has been docked 10 days pay, demoted one rank and transferred.

Following a disciplinary hearing for then-Staff Sgt. Don Ray in November 2011, the RCMP Adjudication Board delivered its decision Jan. 13, 2012. That decision has only recently been made public.

Ray was the head of the polygraph unit at K Division in Edmonton from 2006 to 2009 when the complaints took place.

Ray had sex with female subordinates and used his position to favour potential female employees.

Ray also admitted to drinking, and encouraging subordinates to drink alcohol in the office, even stocking the office with beer and rum himself.

The statement of facts say:

■Over a period of a year, beginning in 2006, Ray had a sexual relationship with a female employee, with liaisons taking place in the polygraph suite during lunch breaks and after business hours.
■In late March or early April 2009, Ray opened his pants, exposing his penis to a female employee after a drinking party. He asked her to touch his penis and have sex with him. When she refused, he insisted. She refused again and they left the building without further sexual contact.
■In early April 2009, Ray attended a celebration at a pub in St. Albert, Alta., for the transfer of a co-worker. Ray asked for a ride with a female employee after saying he was too drunk to drive. Ray had sex with the woman in a parking lot.
■Also in 2009, Ray took prospective RCMP hirees out for drinks after meeting with them for security screening interviews and fingerprinting. He also offered to alter security forms for one candidate by extending the length of time she knew one of her character references.
Widespread harassment complaints
RCMP at K Division in Edmonton held a news conference on Tuesday in response to media inquiries about the case.

Chief Supt. Marlin Degrand said the allegations involving Ray first surfaced in Aug. 2009 and became the subject of a formal code of conduct investigation later that month.

"When individuals such as Sgt. Ray make the decisions that they do, and perform the activities such as they do, it cannot help but bring discredit to the rest of us, and it hurts us," said Degrand.

"However, we move forward with the good work that our men and women are committed to doing every day on the streets."

Degrand said dismissal was one of the actions considered by adjudication board

"The adjudication board considered all of the aggravating and as well as mitigating circumstances and this case, they deemed that this member would receive the highest form of sanction short of dismissal," he said.

Ray's disciplinary hearing came amid widespread complaints from female RCMP officers who say they experienced sexual harassment in the force.

In one high-profile complaint in B.C., Cpl. Catherine Galliford claimed she suffered post-traumatic stress disorder after years of sexual harassment since joining the RCMP in 1991.

In describing the impact of Ray's actions on their lives, his victims wrote how they lost their faith in the RCMP.

The statements "were particularly troubling, revealing wounds which...will require some time and attention to heal," said the three senior RCMP officers who participated in the disciplinary hearing.

"It will take considerable effort to rebuild the damaged trust in our organization."

In their sentencing, the officers considered Ray's high ranking and position at the time and the "serial, repetitive nature of the acts."

"Staff Sgt. Ray should have known better," said their report. "Our organization relies upon its senior [non-commissioned officers] to set a good example for younger members."

But the board also considered Ray's willingness to admit wrongdoing, his lack of any prior record and his "sincere expressions of regret and remorse."

While the officers said they considered dismissal and a considerable demotion, they relied heavily on a joint submission to reach its decision.

Ray was demoted to sergeant and was posted to British Columbia."

[roper1]

To date there is a class-action lawsuit from at least 282 female RCMP members & civilians alleging sexual harassment. It is one h*** of a stretch from any sane person that these ladies from every province & territory in this land except PEI are complaining with NO MERIT. The culture of the RCMP needs to be changed ASAP. I for one am glad my daughter chose not to join. I would reiterate ad nauseum there are more good than bad but there is enough bad for the need of fundamental change.

[trooper]

His organization determines employability, the law sets methods for remedy.

I know of several instances where there has been theft and fraud at a workplace and the employers and management handled the situation in exactly the way I have outlined. All men are equal, he deserves the same treatment.

No, I disagree! Police officers and those that uphold the law are held to a higher standard due to the position of trust placed onto them by society.

[pickrel pat]

No, I disagree! Police officers and those that uphold the law are held to a higher standard due to the position of trust placed onto them by society.

x2......wildandfree has it wrong.

[Wild&Free]

No, I disagree! Police officers and those that uphold the law are held to a higher standard due to the position of trust placed onto them by society.

x2......wildandfree has it wrong.


a good Singapore style caning would help too.

:thinking-006: