Durable mid efficient forced air furnace?

[Pathfinder76]

Does anyone have a recommendation? Does one exist? It seems that everyone I know with a newer furnace is constantly having them fixed. The amount of motherboards being replaced (service man scam?) is ridiculous.

I am about to replace my furnace and I want something that is durable and well built. Thanks.

[twofifty]

Look into one of those Savage furnaces. They're not the fanciest looking or most efficient, but accomplish the basic mission at a reasonable price.

[crazyperch]

They stopped making the mid efficient furnaces a few years back. You will have to get a high efficient furnace now. i personally would go with a Carrier but lennox is good as well. stay away from the lower end furnaces like Goodmann

[Justanotherbuck2]

Mid efficiency furnace are no longer available in Canada, condensing furnaces only. The key is maintenance, I have been doing this for 33 years and the only problem with the new furnaces is the lack of customer annual maintenance by professional techs. Gone are the days of the home owner being able to maintain their own furnace other than filter changes. Every furnace on the market is built to a high quality standard, start with a quality installer and a good maintenance schedule and you will not be disappointed, if you look for the discount installer that's what you will likely receive for service as well.

[JohninAB]

Look into one of those Savage furnaces. They're not the fanciest looking or most efficient, but accomplish the basic mission at a reasonable price. :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[CaberTosser]

As others have noted, mid-efficient furnaces are no longer available, they were legislated out. You'll be looking to install a condensing furnace.

[greywolf]

Mid efficiency furnace are no longer available in Canada, condensing furnaces only. The key is maintenance, I have been doing this for 33 years and the only problem with the new furnaces is the lack of customer annual maintenance by professional techs. Gone are the days of the home owner being able to maintain their own furnace other than filter changes. Every furnace on the market is built to a high quality standard, start with a quality installer and a good maintenance schedule and you will not be disappointed, if you look for the discount installer that's what you will likely receive for service as well.

So tell me, what annual maintenance must be done by a "professional" tech that a homeowner isn't capable of doing????

[benamen]

My office coworker put in the most expensive furnace Carrier makes last fall. Got it fired up in November and in April, it needed a new control board.
Good thing for warranty as I think he said the board was $1500.00

[Pathfinder76]

This is my fear. I know of at least five people this winter who were told by professional techs that there mother board was shot. One got a second opinion and was told this is the biggest scam going.

[savagewsm]

If you have an older furnace already in place look into just fixing it. I know there comes a point where it cannot be fixed but if it is fixable I'd go with that. My old furnace was put in in 1969 and is still going strong. I had to change the motor this year for the first time. That was $120 installed.

I have it inspected every couple of years. Perhaps I am burning a bit more gas than the newer oner but considering the repair stories I've heard I don't think I am losing any money. My relative has already put in well over $2000 into their high efficiency furnace. Funny how it crapped out right after the warranty expired.

[Pathfinder76]

If you have an older furnace already in place look into just fixing it. I know there comes a point where it cannot be fixed but if it is fixable I'd go with that. My old furnace was put in in 1969 and is still going strong. I had to change the motor this year for the first time. That was $120 installed.

I have it inspected every couple of years. Perhaps I am burning a bit more gas than the newer oner but considering the repair stories I've heard I don't think I am losing any money. My relative has already put in well over $2000 into their high efficiency furnace. Funny how it crapped out right after the warranty expired.

This is where I may stay for sure.

[avb3]

My last house had a fifty year old furnace. Had the firebox inspected each fall. There was no reason to replace it, as the math just did not make sense.

Not replacing the furnace in the house I'm renovating right now either.

The new furnaces just don't last long enough to get a pay back. I can virtually guarantee none will work 30 years from now, let alone 50.

[357xp]

The older furnaces are usually more reliable for sure. Hate working on the newer ones, to many gadgets on there for a furnace. Now u r supposed to be a computer tech to fix a furnace. :angry3:

[Selkirk]

Sorry folks, and no offence meant, but I have to chuckle at some of the comments being made here about keeping that old 'dinosaur' of a furnace, rather than replacing it with a new high-efficient furnace :lol:

Those old furnaces were only about 60-70% efficient when they were brand new, and as they age they get even more inefficient. By the time they are 30+ years old, their efficiency has dropped down to about 40-50% ... costing you 'HUGE' amounts on your gas & electrical bills each month.

Then of course, there's the other issue with old furnaces. Like anything else old, they are at a much higher risk of failure (break-down). And guess when old furnaces usually like to break-down. You guessed it ... on cold winter nights.

To each their own, I guess :confused0024:

Mac

P.S.
My 8 year old high-efficient furnace (94% efficient) works just great, and I've never had a problem with it ... ever!
.

[benamen]

If you look on kijiji there are tons of mid efficient furnaces for sale. I picked one up for $50 and it is going into the garage to replace the 35 year old furnace that is in there now.

[twofifty]

Chuck, if your current mid eff furnace has a good heat exchanger (not leaking), you'll probably be further ahead to fix it.
Don't know how long the parts will be available though.

Why are you looking to replace it?

[wildwoods]

They stopped making the mid efficient furnaces a few years back. You will have to get a high efficient furnace now. i personally would go with a Carrier but lennox is good as well. stay away from the lower end furnaces like Goodmann

Bang on

[avb3]

Sorry folks, and no offence meant, but I have to chuckle at some of the comments being made here about keeping that old 'dinosaur' of a furnace, rather than replacing it with a new high-efficient furnace :lol:

Those old furnaces were only about 60-70% efficient when they were brand new, and as they age they get even more inefficient. By the time they are 30+ years old, their efficiency has dropped down to about 40-50% ... costing you 'HUGE' amounts on your gas & electrical bills each month.

Then of course, there's the other issue with old furnaces. Like anything else old, they are at a much higher risk of failure (break-down). And guess when old furnaces usually like to break-down. You guessed it ... on cold winter nights.

To each their own, I guess :confused0024:

Mac

P.S.
My 8 year old high-efficient furnace (94% efficient) works just great, and I've never had a problem with it ... ever!
.

I agree... My fifty year old furnace was probably only 50% efficient.

However, my gas bills were only marginally higher than my neighbor in a similar sized house. I had the advantage of large south facing windows which captured sunlight in the winter.

There is no way I could see me coming out ahead once I factored in the cost of purchase and install of a high efficiency furnace, especially with the expect longevity of them and maintenance costs factored in.

YMMV.

[Pathfinder76]

Chuck, if your current mid eff furnace has a good heat exchanger (not leaking), you'll probably be further ahead to fix it.
Don't know how long the parts will be available though.

Why are you looking to replace it?

My dad is a gas fitter and tin smith. He isn't getting any younger so thought now would be a good time.

[Sporty]

Just had our furnace tuned up and cleaned. We have the original furnace to our house which is about 25 years old. Our furnace guy was so happy, he said he hates the new furnaces and for the cost of these "energy" efficient furnaces to install only to save about $40-$50 on your utility costs, it would take years before they begin to pay for themselves and that is without any costly repairs.

He told us, like everything else, all the older stuff is made better and if our furnace were to break down, it would likely cost a few hundred dollars in parts and it would be good. Ours is in great shape and has a few years left in it. We're going to be selling our house and our Realtor suggested we install a new furnace, our furnace guy left a note with his invoice for our Realtor telling her that our furnace is probably better than many of the newer expensive models and has many good years left to it.

I can't speak for those who have high efficiency furnaces but after hearing from some of my friends and their friends, who have high efficiency furnaces' how high their heating costs were over the past couple of winters, my bills were consistently lower than their's. Either they jack their heat up or my furnace isn't doing too badly in the efficiency department.

[Homesteader]

I'll agree for the most part that the high efficient is the way to go. When we moved we went backwards to a mid efficient Lennox. I had a high efficient carrier, MVP58 maybe, can't remember the number. Anyway my recommendation if you do go high efficient is to go with a dc motor. You'll save more money on power, then you will on gas. I had to replace the ignitor on mine after about a year, but it then ran perfectly till we sold it 5yrs later, so not sure how long it went without any problems but it was a sweet furnace. When I replace this one it will be with something along the same lines.

My only question to add for the guys in the know is how hard is it to install the condensing exhaust into the existing roof vent, or does it have to be run on the horizontal out the wall?? If so mine will be a real pig, to vent.

[greywolf]

My only question to add for the guys in the know is how hard is it to install the condensing exhaust into the existing roof vent, or does it have to be run on the horizontal out the wall?? If so mine will be a real pig, to vent.

Direct vent out the wall

[bobinthesky]

I put in a new high efficiency Trane furnace last fall and come January in the -20 something degree weather, it decided to quit. It took the service guy 2 days to get it going again while I heated the house with the gas cook stove and a couple of electric heaters. The repair man claimed to have put $1600 in parts into it and I had to fight to get warranty.
A month ago, it quit again and I had to get the service guy in to fix it again! This furnace is barely 8 months old.

[Grizzly Adams]

I put in a new high efficiency Trane furnace last fall and come January in the -20 something degree weather, it decided to quit. It took the service guy 2 days to get it going again while I heated the house with the gas cook stove and a couple of electric heaters. The repair man claimed to have put $1600 in parts into it and I had to fight to get warranty.
A month ago, it quit again and I had to get the service guy in to fix it again! This furnace is barely 8 months old.

There's a lot to be said about things that work , as opposed to those that break down and are about impossible to fix, efficiency be damned. :D Unfortunately , that's the Future.

Grizz

[Selkirk]

http://netanimations.net/Laughing-chimp-gif-animation.gif


This thread is getting reeeal entertaining ... it seems that some people just cant' handle 'change'.

According to my Father, they were saying the same things when forced-air furnaces took over from gravity furnaces. For some people, that was; The end of the world! :sHa_sarcasticlol:

For further entertainment, we should start a new thread about those gosh-darn, newfangled cars with automatic transmissions :angry3:

Welcome to the future, folks!

Mac ;)

[357xp]

Are you an HVAC tech, Mac?

[benamen]

http://netanimations.net/Laughing-chimp-gif-animation.gif


This thread is getting reeeal entertaining ... it seems that some people just cant' handle 'change'.

According to my Father, they were saying the same things when forced-air furnaces took over from gravity furnaces. For some people, that was; The end of the world! :sHa_sarcasticlol:

For further entertainment, we should start a new thread about those gosh-darn, newfangled cars with automatic transmissions :angry3:

Welcome to the future, folks!Mac ;)



I think anyone on this thread can handle change for the better rather than just change for change sake. When I got quotes on my last furnace for my house, one of the contractors did state that the newer furnaces won't save you money. What you save on natural gas you will spend on repairs.
So far, the furnace in the house has only needed one switch replaced in the 12 years I have had it. And that was on warranty (I did the install myself). The original furnace for my house was put into my garage and is still running. But I did have to replace the drive belt once.

[twofifty]

My dad is a gas fitter and tin smith. He isn't getting any younger so thought now would be a good time.

Is your dad set up to test the heat exchanger? Apparently there is a stinky or smoky compound that can be released in the combustion side of the heat exchanger, while the blower fan is running but the burner isn't.

If the smell comes through the heat vents in the house, the heat exchanger is toast.

Another consideration with a new furnace is that the warranty is probably dependent upon the supplier doing all of the installation. If your dad does the whole install there may not be a warranty when the motherboard goes.

[Selkirk]

Are you an HVAC tech, Mac?

No, I don't work in the trade or business, but I know several who do. I also get a lot of exposure to furnaces (and the subject) in my work, as an NRCan Energy Advisor.

As an alternative, the OP might want to consider buying a second hand mid-efficient furnace (80% efficient), if it's not too old. He would just want to make sure the heat exchanger isn't faulty, before putting any money down.

Mac

[Homesteader]

Direct vent out the wall

So you're saying a condensing furnace can't be vented vertically by piping thru the existing chase space?

[Grizzly Adams]

http://netanimations.net/Laughing-chimp-gif-animation.gif


This thread is getting reeeal entertaining ... it seems that some people just cant' handle 'change'.

According to my Father, they were saying the same things when forced-air furnaces took over from gravity furnaces. For some people, that was; The end of the world! :sHa_sarcasticlol:

For further entertainment, we should start a new thread about those gosh-darn, newfangled cars with automatic transmissions :angry3:

Welcome to the future, folks!

Mac ;)

Let's see now, .98 incandescent light bulbs replaced by 12. halogens, burned out three of them last week, furnaces that cost twice as much, that nobody knows how to repair, vehicles that cost a fortune and are basically drive till they quit, then throw away, cause they cost too much to repair, Appliances with expiry dates. I thought the future was supposed to be better than the past ?:lol:

[greywolf]

So you're saying a condensing furnace can't be vented vertically by piping thru the existing chase space?

the direct venting is usually the preferred method, but they can be vented through a roof top with mods to the existing flue duct. In your case you should contact a competant installer to answer your questions...

[twofifty]

Halogens are expensive, don't last, and they generate a new toxic waste stream = bad change.

The new even more expensive LED bulbs, on the other hand, seem to show some promise. Maybe good change?

[benamen]

I'll agree for the most part that the high efficient is the way to go. When we moved we went backwards to a mid efficient Lennox. I had a high efficient carrier, MVP58 maybe, can't remember the number. Anyway my recommendation if you do go high efficient is to go with a dc motor. You'll save more money on power, then you will on gas. I had to replace the ignitor on mine after about a year, but it then ran perfectly till we sold it 5yrs later, so not sure how long it went without any problems but it was a sweet furnace. When I replace this one it will be with something along the same lines.

My only question to add for the guys in the know is how hard is it to install the condensing exhaust into the existing roof vent, or does it have to be run on the horizontal out the wall?? If so mine will be a real pig, to vent.

They can be run vertically out your old chimney if you want. That is what my son did to avoid venting outside under his deck. If you know which furnace you are interested in, just have a look at the manual on it. It will show you spacings etc required for the intake and exhaust.

[Agb Crash]

1 word maybe 2?

GEO-Thermal

[Sneeze]

Does anyone have a recommendation? Does one exist? It seems that everyone I know with a newer furnace is constantly having them fixed. The amount of motherboards being replaced (service man scam?) is ridiculous.

I am about to replace my furnace and I want something that is durable and well built. Thanks.

The Keep-Rite brand furnaces seem to function well, they are a de-badged Tempstar with a diminished warranty.

IIRC - As a homeowner you can purchase one where a Tempstar is available only to HVAC techs.

All the warranties are junk anyway as $120 an hour labor charge is never covered. Save the $400 upfront.

[357xp]

The Keep-Rite brand furnaces seem to function well, they are a de-badged Tempstar with a diminished warranty.

IIRC - As a homeowner you can purchase one where a Tempstar is available only to HVAC techs.

All the warranties are junk anyway as $120 an hour labor charge is never covered. Save the $400 upfront.

That's what I got. I think the mother brand is actually ICP. Mines got 1 season in now trouble free. :sHa_shakeshout:

[Selkirk]

1 word maybe 2?

GEO-Thermal

39 words . . .

Geothermal heating systems use a 'LOT' of electricity to run the system's pumps. Unless you don't have access to natural gas, a geothermal heating system isn't economically viable here in Alberta, because of the high cost of electricity here.

Mac

[crazyperch]

So you're saying a condensing furnace can't be vented vertically by piping thru the existing chase space?

there is no problem going through the roof when venting. in my opinion tho, if you are going through the roof, do a two pipe all the way instead of using the concentric kit.

also dont forget that you will have to also re vent your hot water tank

[Justanotherbuck2]

The roof is always the best choice for termination Not effected adversely by wind direction and rarely freezes over, skip the concentric kit, in Alberta they have lots of frost issues. To avoid freezing frost in your fresh air intake skip the second pipe from outdoors directly to your furnace and install combustion air to your furnace room, taking warmer air for the intake indirectly from the furnace room. To many installers look for the easiest install versus the best install. This may entail having to replace your water heater as well to accommodate using your existing chimney as a chase to exit the building. You would need a power vented water heater to achieve this. 33 years in this business and still amazes me how so many furnaces are installed incorrectly by journeymen. Every furnace come with a installation manual and a start up procedure pretty simple to follow, we find most of them if they are left with the owner, unopened!

[Homesteader]

Thanks for all the replies on my venting question. Sorry for the derail Chuck.