Poor Grouping with Rifle

[canadianhunter]

I have a Parker Hale Super Safari in .308. I bought it used and found it to be a great shooter and shot tight groups. Then this spring I went shooting and found the group was large and at times off the paper. No explanation. I replaced the stock because I found it was cracked. I bought a thumbhole laminate stock and installed it. The barrel is free floated and the action is dual pillared. Today at the range the first three shots were about a 6" group and then they went completely off the paper. I have tried numerous makers of ammo and found the best grouping for this gun. All the bolts are tight and the scope is mounted tight.
Does anyone have any ideas as to why this gun is hit and miss?

[Cappy]

Assuming the scope, rings and bases are tight, have you used a copper cleaner and given the barrel a good cleaning. Although if it grouped one day and went all to h#$l the next I would really check your scope and it's mounts.

[Mike_W]

My guess would be crappy / shot -scope

Also what about glass bedding and freefloating the barrel.

Have you tried different ammo since the new stock?

[A.H.]

My guess is the scope let go. Send the scope in for repair or replace it.

[canadianhunter]

My guess would be crappy / shot -scope

Also what about glass bedding and freefloating the barrel.

Have you tried different ammo since the new stock?

Barrel is free floated. And its not the shooter, all my other rifles shoot tight. I tried three different types of ammo with the new stock. I found that the Hornady Match Grade and the cheap Federal ammo shot the tightest groups around 1 inch to 2 inches. Then out of no where, 6-24 inch groups.
I think I will try a new scope.
Last fall that rifle shot mule deer at 400 yards so the scope must have been smacked out.

[Bushmaster]

I'm with Cappy....the first thing I would do is to give the barrel a good cleaning......

[Dick284]

I'm with Cappy....the first thing I would do is to give the barrel a good cleaning......


........With copper solvent, and toss the bronze brush in the trash.
Try some Wipe Out if you can find it.
Or Sweets, or Barnes CR10, or Butches Bore Shine.

Nitro solvent and regular Hoppes #9 will not touch copper fouling.

[Mountain Guy]

Would copper fouling put the bullet off the paper ? Especially with erratic bullet flight...some good some bad.
Seems like a wonky scope.
What kinda scope is on top ?

[Trophy Hunter]

Last year I had problems with a Baush and Laumb 4200 elite scope... You had to site the gun in every day and it would be out 6 inch`s to a foot.. Then would hold a group, when shot the following day would have travelled again.... Sent back and they replaced it...

The only other thing is maybe your barrel is shot out....Rifling is NFG

Hotter calibers or guy who load MAX loads will shoot out a barrel in couple thousand shells or less. In the WSSM I`ve had friends get 200 rounds out of a barrel.

[Jason Balesdent]

Noticed you said the screws holding the action in the stock are tight. How tight? It is possible to tighten them enough to really throw your shooting to crap. Try loosening them and just getting them tight with one hand on the driver and just good and snug. If that doesn't help, it only costs a couple minutes.

[laker]

That happened to a sako I had. Look down the barrel from the end. If you see a shiny ring just before the stock you have a pressure ring. Caused by a small bit of something that was present when it was fired. Not enough to blow it up,but enough to cause that condition.
A good gunsmith told me about that condition.............he advised me to sell the gun as it will never shoot tight groups again.
I did!!

[spurly]

It may not like a free floated barrell, you may have to try shimming. I also had a problem, with a front guard screw being a few thousands to long once . The guard screw bottomed out but did not hold the stock secure enough. also check all the screws on your rings and bases before suspecting the scope. hope this helps.

[Young Eldon]

Did you check the scope for parallax? Put gun on a rest and aim at the target. Then move your eye around without moving the rifle. If the crosshairs walk around on the target, you got a parallax problem.

[sbtennex]

It may not like a free floated barrell, you may have to try shimming. I also had a problem, with a front guard screw being a few thousands to long once . The guard screw bottomed out but did not hold the stock secure enough. also check all the screws on your rings and bases before suspecting the scope. hope this helps.

And don't bother retorqueing all the screws by hand. Buy a torque-driver. You can't believe how crappy your feel is when you think screws, especially small fine pitch ones, are "all the same tightness". I've found scope mount screws that I thought were "even" torque to be from too low to measure to over the 65 in/lbs mine maxes out at. Same for action screws - find out where they should be and torque them accordingly. You'd be amazed at how tight you put them at, enough to mess up the whole design of everything.

[canadianhunter]

Took the rifle to the range today and shot it with the iron sights only. It appears that my scope if f#$!ed. I think I might replace it with a Burris Fullfield. Anyone use these scopes?

[Scott N]

Took the rifle to the range today and shot it with the iron sights only. It appears that my scope if f#$!ed. I think I might replace it with a Burris Fullfield. Anyone use these scopes?

I've got a couple of the original Burris Fullfield scopes on a couple of rifles that I don't use very often anymore, but they are clear, bright, and durable scopes (one sits on my 338 WM). The originals were made in the USA, but the new ones (Fullfield II) are made oversea (Indonesia I think), but most of the reports that I've read about them are positive. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Burris product myself.

[dabears]

My Burris is much clearer than my Bushnell 3200. I really like the scope.

[Leverboy]

Personally i am a Leupold fan. While never needed, its nice to know the Leupold Warranty dealer is in Alberta.

...with that said the Burris scopes i have owned were very nice.

[sdeviation]

im on the other end of the scale ...never again burris fullfield II`s

[Red]

I have an original Burris Fullfield as well. I liked it as it was really clear. It was on my 338 WM for 15 years but finally gave out. I'm going to send it back to Burris under warrenty though.

[Leverboy]

Unfiortunatley you have to send your Burris to the states unlike Bushnell and Leupold. getting your Burris back from the states to Canada is also a very time consuming ordeal unlike us shipping to the states, the other way around is full of red tape due to the Americans export laws.

[Double Shovel]

Where in Canada do you send your Bushnell scopes.I have a .223 that used to shoot like a dream and then last year it went all to H.So I changed the scope and put on a new 3200 and the same thing is happening.Everytime I use it i have to sight it in.Everything seems tight,can't figure it out.I have copper cut it and it hasn't helped.What are the chances of having to bad scopes and one of them is brand new?

[canadianhunter]

Well I mounted the new Burris Fullfield and it is great. The rifle is shooting good again.
I called Mueller Optics in the states to return the old one for warranty. They said that I can ship it down but then have to pay the export fee back out of the country. Unreal! I bought the Burris off ebay brand new for $150. No export permit required and it was even inspected by US Customs. Label right on the side of the box, "rifle scope".

[Dick284]

Well I mounted the new Burris Fullfield and it is great. The rifle is shooting good again.
I called Mueller Optics in the states to return the old one for warranty. They said that I can ship it down but then have to pay the export fee back out of the country. Unreal! I bought the Burris off ebay brand new for $150. No export permit required and it was even inspected by US Customs. Label right on the side of the box, "rifle scope".

The export fee is a US thing it has nothing to do with Canadian Customs!

Ebay users are flying under the Radar as far as US Export restiction enforcement goes.

Still illegal to have them export scopes without the proper paper work completed, just because there is lack of enforcement does'nt make it legal.

Hope you never have warrenty issues with your Burris, from what I've read it is a royal PITA to get it worked on and then shipped back to Canada.

[catnthehat]

I have a Parker Hale Super Safari in .308. I bought it used and found it to be a great shooter and shot tight groups. Then this spring I went shooting and found the group was large and at times off the paper. No explanation. I replaced the stock because I found it was cracked. I bought a thumbhole laminate stock and installed it. The barrel is free floated and the action is dual pillared. Today at the range the first three shots were about a 6" group and then they went completely off the paper. I have tried numerous makers of ammo and found the best grouping for this gun. All the bolts are tight and the scope is mounted tight.
Does anyone have any ideas as to why this gun is hit and miss?
If it waqs good last year, but won't hit the ground this year, I would suspect something loose as well, either in the bed( screws, etc) but you have already done that, or the scope.
My money is on the scope....
Cat

[CaberTosser]

There really shouldn't be much of a problem in sending things to the states for warranty. When the product is returned it isn't being exported, its being repatriated. While my experience with this isn't optic or firearm related, the fundamentals should be the same. I was on a road trip to the US and had some items with me I was sending to a business in Bend, Oregon for machining and a rebuild ( 2 VW G-Lader scroll superchargers). I declared them with both Canadian customs and US Customs so that I wouldn't get dinged any import taxes when they were shipped back to me in Calgary. By bringing them across the border myself and shipping from within the states I saved some hefty brokerage fees. I included the customs documents with the superchargers when I shipped them and they came back to me in Calgary no problemo. An item being returned to its point of orgin is not technically an export, its a temporary import to the United States. Like if you went to a shooting competition in the US and declared your firearms upon entry, they can't say Jack s*%t to you when you bring them back home (provided you have all your documentation correct), because you're not exporting them. Just document it.

[Dick284]

Like if you went to a shooting competition in the US and declared your firearms upon entry, they can't say Jack s*%t to you when you bring them back home (provided you have all your documentaion correct), because you're not exporting them. Just document it.


I guess you've never gone to a US competition, and had to deal with a Form 6.(more jiggery pokery)

Most everything shooting related is highly controlled for shipment out of the States.

Repaired optics are no different.(from what I've read)

I'm just relating horror stories as written about on CGN.
Go over there and do a search.

From now on for me it's Bushnell or Leupold, at least they have warrenty centers in Canada.

[CaberTosser]

I guess you've never gone to a US competition, and had to deal with a Form 6.(more jiggery pokery)

Most everything shooting related is highly controlled for shipment out of the States.

Repaired optics are no different.(from what I've read)

I'm just relating horror stories as written about on CGN.
Go over there and do a search.

From now on for me it's Bushnell or Leupold, at least they have warrenty centers in Canada.


I should know better than to assume a Gov't bureaucracy could get something right. Sensible assumptions are purely theoretical; customs never let logic stand in their way before, why am I thinking they would now?