New rifle & scope poore grouping Help

[alpineman]

I just purchased a Ruger M77 Hawkeye in a 280, along with a Bushnell 4200 2.5 - 10 X 50 scope, I have shoot 3 boxes of shells 2 Federal power-shock 150 grain and also tried 1 box of Federal Premium Vital Shock 140 grain recommended by fellow at wholesale, all at 50 and 100 yards
My problem is it is not grouping at all it will shoot 4inchs one way than 7 inches the other, and 9 inches the other but nothing consistant the felow at wholesale told me I need to break in the rifle more, I have never had this problem with any rifle in the past, I have cleaned it after every 3rd to 5th shoot and after 3 shoots I let the barrel cool down. My thinking is it is a bad scope, I don't want to keep throwing money away trying to sight it in. I brought it into Wholesale and they checked all the screws and said all was O.K.
I want to use this rifle for hunting big game but cannot make a ethical shoot with the way it is. and will not use it to hunt with.
I also purchased a 3200 3 -9 X 40 for my 30-06 winchester and have had no problems with it. I will be using my 30-06 to hunt with till I get this figured out.
Any suggestions or comments would be greatfully appreciated.

[Homesteader]

The guy at WSS is blowing smoke up your butt. I suspect something is wrong with the scope mounts, and second place would be your scope. Yes sometimes a new rifle will tighten up a LITTLE, after things smooth out, but it certainly won't help a gun that shoots like a shotgun. If you find a problem with the mounting, and it was mounted at WSS, then I would hit them up for another couple boxes of shells, I think if you approach it properly they shouldn't have a problem with it.

[gitrdun]

My first suugestion would be to thoroughly examine the scope mounts, especially if it was mounted by the retailer. Remove the scope from the rings. Turn the windage and elevation turrets to their mechanical center. return the scope to the rings and now check that you are on optical center, or close to it. If not, the rings may be stressing the scope tube. If the staff at the retailer can't help you and I doubt that they can, take your gun to Rick at ATR for an exam, he'll be able to help you. I can too and I will if you want to, but I am not a qualified gunsmith, Rick is. :)

[buckfever]

hmmm... your right its the scope... ill give u $150 for it...

[gitrdun]

Well, if it was the scope and you're willing to offer $150.00 for it, why not instead do him a favour and offer good advice and then make a valuable post????????. :scared:

[buckfever]

lol it was mainly a joke...but, try putting your 3200 on the ruger. take a few shots she whats she's doing . then decide if its the scope, mounts or the rifle. thats what my dad did with uor friends family.

[whitetailhntr]

Ruger rifles come with bases and rings on the rifle.I would defenitely have someone other wss look at it.I have owned 3 rugers myself and none of them ever shot bad.I would be far more suspicious of improper mounting or that bushnell scope.I would get a leupold if you can afford it and start from scratch.get someone qualified to do the install.I f it still won't shoot contact Ruger.They have a good reputation for customer service and I'm sure they would be glad to help.only my opinion.

[gitrdun]

lol it was mainly a joke...but, try putting your 3200 on the ruger. take a few shots she whats she's doing . then decide if its the scope, mounts or the rifle. thats what my dad did with uor friends family.

Ok, gothca, you were joking. But reallisticly speaking here, on buddy's perceptice.....it's not a joke. His rifle shoots like crap, so let's help im out. Changing scopes is just thowing money at unkonwns, which I'm sure he doesn't want to do. So. we all go thru a process of elimination. Isn't this what this is all about = shooters helping other shooters?

[The Bit Runner.]

If you have another scope that you know is good,put it on and try,I would sure lean towards the mounts.For that guy to tell you you have to break it in more for you to get better groups is why i dont even walk through the doors at wholesale sports,what kind of advice is that.:mad2:What a joke.

I wish you all the best and good luck.:wave:

[whitetailhntr]

Ok, gothca, you were joking. But reallisticly speaking here, on buddy's perceptice.....it's not a joke. His rifle shoots like crap, so let's help im out. Changing scopes is just thowing money at unkonwns, which I'm sure he doesn't want to do. So. we all go thru a process of elimination. Isn't this what this is all about = shooters helping other shooters?


I think he is sugesting trying a scope he already has that he knows is good.I was merely sugesting to buy a better scope if the one he has is faulty and can be returned for a credit towards a new one.I agree with you 100% to eliminate every other possibility one at a time before spending anymore $$.

[wannabe]

shouldn't be the scope or rings especially if they're new and you've checked them multiple times. try checking the barrel rifling and make sure there is no factory default in there...it does happen.. and make sure that barrel is free floating, all your action screws are tight. make sure you have the right bullet weight for your barrel twist. lots of stuff to check.

[209x50]

If I understand right you say it throws groups all over the place? If that is the case it is a safe bet that it is your scope, I've had two Leupolds do this to me and each needed repair to end the problem.

[alpineman]

Wow, now this is why I came to this forum post questions like this I appreciate all the help.
I think I will mount a scope I know to be accurate and see what happens, If that don't work I will bring it in to have someone other than Wholesale look at it. I will let you all know how I do.
Thanks Again

[gitrdun]

Alpineman, if you can't figure it out in the long run, bring it to me. We'll shoot that SOB and figure it out real quick. If I can't help you out, then I'll steer you to someone who can. I'm in the High River area. Let's all shoot straight. :) I'm always into make guns shoot straight and you would be mighty surprised as to how to mount a scope.

[Faststeel]

I have heard that the rings that ruger provides with their rifles aren't the best, and need to be lapped for an extended amount of time to get them into a use able state.
Do you recall seeing the guys lap your rings for you at WSS? FS

[Dick284]

Pretty hard to diagnose the problem over the internet.
Any number of things or combination gf thigs could be going on.

1. are you and accomplished shooter.
2. has someone else tried the rifle who knows how to shoot.
3. are the optics proven.
4. is the rifle bedded properly.
5. has the rifle's crown been checked
6. has the bore been borescoped.

Without having any of the above done or verified, there is no way anyone short of a Tarro Card reader is gong to solve this for you.

I'd be inclined to see if any of the accomplished shooters on here are close to where you live, and set up a meet and greet with a shooting evaluation thrown in.

Good luck.

[Huntnut]

I would try the 4200 on your 30/06 because you know everything is good on it-ie. mounts. if you put your scope from your 30/06 on there and you have something wrong with the mounts you won't be much farther ahead but if you put the 4200 on the 30/06 and it shoots all over then you know it's the scope.

[Copidosoma]

I would try the 4200 on your 30/06 because you know everything is good on it-ie. mounts. if you put your scope from your 30/06 on there and you have something wrong with the mounts you won't be much farther ahead but if you put the 4200 on the 30/06 and it shoots all over then you know it's the scope.

X2

And ignore any advice you ever receive at WSS.

[alpineman]

Huntnut, never thought of putting the 4200 on my 30-06, I think I will try that first
Dick284, I have been shooting for about 35 years mainly hunting, I did let my buddy try and he had the same problem (wanted to be sure it wasn't me)

How do you lap your rings I've never heard of that?

gitrdun, Thanks for the offer I would take you up on your offer but I am just west of Edmonton, not planing to go down south for some time.

Thanks again for all the advice, I am going out hunting all weekend will put my 4200 on my 30-06 and see what happens (at the range), won't be back til Tuesday A.M. I will let you all know how it all goes. Will not be using my 280.

[PoppaW]

My money is on the 4200 being pooched. Seen this once before with a bushnell. They have good warranty. It was a new scope too. We took one cap off and could hear gas leaking out the turret for a bit then it quit. The scope is 100% now.
Good luck and good hunting.

[alpineman]

Ya well I went into Wholesale and told them of the problem and had them change over the scope to a 4200 4-16 X 50 and asked them only to mount it and not to bore sight it, I asked for a coulple of boxs of shells as I went throught 4 and problem was not resolved, they replied they would not even thought they gave me the bad advice of breaking in the rifle. So went home re checked everything on the scope to make sure it was mounted correctly and off to the range I went and within 5 shoots I was right where I wanted to be at 100 yards and my shoots after that were all within 1/2" after that Problem solved, it was the scope, thanks to all.

[209x50]

roaming groups is a pretty classic result of an erector problem in the scope, glad it all worked out!