Boat Sale Question

[tbiddy]

I sold my late fathers 2007 Crestliner pontoon boat for my mother around the beginning of Feb. The boat hadn't been used for a couple of years and pegged the engine hours around 100. In July of 2013 the boat was taken in for an oil change and the power trim assembly was replaced (I misspoke and told the buyers the leg was replaced). The boat was never placed in the water after that and was stored in a storage yard. We sold the boat in February of 2014.

At the time of the sale I told the buyers everything was in working order when it was parked and the last people to touch it was a boat mechanic. My dad passed in July of 2013 so I couldn't obviously ask him any boat questions.

I received a few texts the last few weeks asking how things worked and had no problem helping them out. Today I received a text saying the motor (115HP Mercury 4 stroke) is hooped. Supposedly they got a diagnostics (I didn't know you could do that) and were told the engine was only ran at 3600 RPM and not the required 6000 RPM (didn't know it had to be ran at 6000 RPM) so the engine was starved of oil. So the engine had only 100.8 hrs, warranty off at 2010 and the engine is no good.

My question to you guys is how should I proceed? They havent asked for any compensation yet. Are they entitled to any? Should I offer anything? The sale is almost 6 months old and the money is long gone. It wasnt sold knowing there were issues and the buyers knew all the circumstances when they bought the boat. What are your thoughts?

[Bushmonkey]

lol... easy answer, its their problem.

Not to be a douche, but every single time you buy used you are accepting the fact that it can have a world of hidden problems. If you buy it, you'd better accept that.

As for selling. I'm just 100% honest with everything about what I'm selling. Nothing else you can do.

I boat a 10k boat from a guy before. If the motor seized up the first time I put it in the water, not the sellers fault.

[Nova]

I received a few texts the last few weeks asking how things worked and had no problem helping them out. Today I received a text saying the motor (115HP Mercury 4 stroke) is hooped. Supposedly they got a diagnostics (I didn't know you could do that) and were told the engine was only ran at 3600 RPM and not the required 6000 RPM (didn't know it had to be ran at 6000 RPM) so the engine was starved of oil.

I find this to be very, very hard to believe.

[Bergerboy]

^^^ X2

If they wanted a boat with a warranty they should have bought a new one. "Sold as is" and "Buyer beware" are not new terms. That information about the RPM for lubrication in incorrect.

[tbiddy]

I find this to be very, very hard to believe.

I do trust them (older couple, no reason to lie) but that is what they are being told. They thought the oil pressure was a little high so they took it in. I've never heard that the motor needs to be ran at 6000 RPM. We mounted the fish finder in front of the throttle so we couldn't get max throttle but just about. In our eyes we were maxed out for speed and I guess that is only about 3600 RPM. They changed the prop, removed the fish finder and could get about 4400 RPM.

[benamen]

Its a 4 stroke engine so how do you starve it of oil. Think what must be happening to your car engine when you are cruising if that were the case. An outboard is supposed to run 6000 rpm at wide open throttle. If it ran at 5000 at wot, then you are over propped. did they happen to take the boat to the firm that did the last work on it? Almost sounds like a tech covering up the last job he did wrong. I am suspicious. Get more details.

[Joe Fehr]

I do trust them (older couple, no reason to lie) but that is what they are being told. They thought the oil pressure was a little high so they took it in. I've never heard that the motor needs to be ran at 6000 RPM. We mounted the fish finder in front of the throttle so we couldn't get max throttle but just about. In our eyes we were maxed out for speed and I guess that is only about 3600 RPM. They changed the prop, removed the fish finder and could get about 4400 RPM.

If it was me I'd be telling them to get a second opinion on the motor. High oil pressure could just be heavy oil. If they put on a different prop how are you to know if the pitch is the same or even the proper pitch for the motor? I've never heard that an outboard has to be run at 6000rpm either...

If it starts and runs then it's their problem for not having it checked prior to purchase. Same as any used vehicle it's buyer beware.

[tbiddy]

Its a 4 stroke engine so how do you starve it of oil. Think what must be happening to your car engine when you are cruising if that were the case. An outboard is supposed to run 6000 rpm at wide open throttle. If it ran at 5000 at wot, then you are over propped. did they happen to take the boat to the firm that did the last work on it? Almost sounds like a tech covering up the last job he did wrong. I am suspicious. Get more details.

The boat was serviced in Airdire in 2012. I assume they took the boat to a shop in Wainwright or Lloydminster.

[coreya3212]

Nothing is owed. It's fair for them to fix there own boat. It really isn't your problem, and it's ok to feel bad for there luck.

[benamen]

So obviously the wrong prop was on it from new. My second boat was over propped from new. It was a two stroke and went 15 years before we rebuilt it. I have a 2006 150 merc that needed new coils to get my rpms back up. Some of the coils will test okay but fail under load. any idea what prop was on it when you sold it and what was replaced with. Any idea who they took the boat to?

[tbiddy]

So obviously the wrong prop was on it from new. My second boat was over propped from new. It was a two stroke and went 15 years before we rebuilt it. I have a 2006 150 merc that needed new coils to get my rpms back up. Some of the coils will test okay but fail under load. any idea what prop was on it when you sold it and what was replaced with. Any idea who they took the boat to?

The original prop would've been the one when we bought the boat. So I assume whatever the boat came with from factory. I have no idea where they took the boat. I talked to her earlier today and sent her the invoice from the work we had done in 2012. Haven't heard anything else.

[benamen]

I did a quick check online and wide open throttle recommendations on the 2014 115 hp is 5000 to 6000 rpm. Merc did a test with the engine on a 21 ft pontoon and used a 13_1/8 x 16 vengeance to get to 6000 rpm. I would sure be interested to see the computer diagnostic read out on the engine. Find it hard to believe that an engine with 100 hours is hooped.

[benamen]

Used the prop selector on merc's site and for a 21 ft pontoon with two pntoons, they recommend a 13 or 14 pitch depending on the prop.

[BobNewton]

Sounds like a funny story. Engine can't be idled or run at a low speed without losin oil pressure?

And you don't owe them a dime. Nor should you pay. Too many people want a brand new boat for 1/5 the price of a new.

It's a used boat. Buyer beware. It's poor luck. But if they wanted warranty they went the wrong route.

[catnthehat]

Sounds like someone is getting fed a line of crap, possibly from the boat mechanic!
I have a very good Merc mechanic that is a friend , IO will ask him, but a four stroke with too much oil pressure resulting in a "hooped motor"??:thinking-006:
Cat

[BobNewton]

Sounds like someone is getting fed a line of crap, possibly from the boat mechanic!
I have a very good Merc mechanic that is a friend , IO will ask him, but a four stroke with too much oil pressure resulting in a "hooped motor"??:thinking-006:
Cat
Yeeep . Makes no sense.

Besides. Hooped motor isn't very specific. I'd like to know what happened.

Also wouldn't be the first engine to pile up with low hours. And it won't be the last. It isn't likely but certainly possible. And isn't always anyone's fault.

Bob

[Buckhead]

I do trust them (older couple, no reason to lie) but that is what they are being told. They thought the oil pressure was a little high so they took it in. I've never heard that the motor needs to be ran at 6000 RPM. We mounted the fish finder in front of the throttle so we couldn't get max throttle but just about. In our eyes we were maxed out for speed and I guess that is only about 3600 RPM. They changed the prop, removed the fish finder and could get about 4400 RPM.

It is common for a portion of the break-in period on an outboard to be run at WOT and high rpms to seat the rings properly. However, if the motor wasn't using any oil then its probably OK. 100 hours on an outboard is barely broken in.

Whoever the mechanic is not giving the right info.
If the prop has already been changed and the motor still won't get rpms then its either still way overpropped or:

It has a bad coil or injector.

I would advise the couple to seek a second opinion - get the coils and injectors checked out and go from there.

[HyperMOA]

As buckhead indicated high rpms would be used to achieve the heat required to seat rings. However after break-in there should be no problem with whatever speed the engine ran at.

However, the high oil pressure may have been indication of a catastrophic failure. Most engines and I will assume this engine too, use a pressurized lube system that has total loss lube or "open center" valving. That means that the oil is forced through small holes / passages and then a basically spilled out of said holes back to the oil pan / sump. If the engine has high enough oil pressure it can actually blow material off of the cam and or crank bearings. However to get to that point the relief in the oil pump would've had to seize which is possible if the engine is failing and filling with debris. Also as the lube system gets contaminated it fills those aforementioned oil passages. This results in basically what happens when you cover the end of your garden hose with your thumb; high pressure.

Have them cut open the engine oil filter and email pics of it beside the boat and it will tell you if the engine has failed.

[600twin]

They own the boat it's their problem. Some people think expect the previous owner should cover costs long after it has been bought.
Easy solution
" You have mail".....Delete

[javlin101]

I guess that's the problem with buying a boat in Feb, pretty hard to try it out before you buy.

[Winch101]

The new owners are being filled up by wherever they took that motor to be looked at .
Be aware there might be ,might be 4 four at the most good marine techs

In all of Alberta. I didn't see where they live .....

[Ebrand]

I don't have a 4 stroke. Do they have Oil pressure gauges?
How are the new owners discovering high oil pressure?
I sue left that they are getting a line of BS and should seek a second opinion. My Merc 115 2 stroke had a 3 year warranty. Mercury tested me very well on a warranty issue. Get a second opinion and if it has a gauge I suspect it is faulty. Get them to call Mercury's warranty line even if the warranty is expired. The dealer would not help me out because my warranty expired.Mercury was amazing.

Either way this is not your issue. Other than trying to ensure the warranty transfers over (maybe).

Something is not right with the buyers story.

Get a second opinion and call Mercury.

[Map Maker]

He is not asking for compensation. He is probably just asking because he trusts you know the boat.

I would just be polite and give him any verbal help he needs.

If he does ask for compensation at a later date, you will probably have more information to go off of later to help deal with that.
I would just relax for now.

[Smokey]

Your honorable. Whenever I sell or buy something I put on the bill sold as is.

You buy something you have to expect their to be risks. Id hate to be in your position, cause how do you know. Secondly the whole older people are honorable. I thought that to till I saw a man 70 years of age steal items from my store last week on video. You can't use intuition in dealings is a lesson I learned doing real estate.

When you sell something, you have to be honest, if they still buy they took the risk. 6 months later is a long time, and maybe its all legit, how do you know?

Tough position.

[tbiddy]

I think everything is kosher. They aren't looking for anything, I think they just wanted to let me know. She emailed me and Supposedly the engine still runs but can blow up at anytime because of the high oil pressure. She said they told her somebody started it without oil (not us) and it was never run at max RPM. This didn't burn out the carbon which will burn out the pistons. They ordered a new motor for $13000 as a rebuild was $9000 but no warranty. Trying to sell the old one to recoup some money.

Thanks for all the advice. I've never sold anything for this much (>20K) and I was sure I was right by not offering any money but didn't want to come off as an arsehole.

[Nova]

I do trust them (older couple, no reason to lie) but that is what they are being told. They thought the oil pressure was a little high so they took it in. I've never heard that the motor needs to be ran at 6000 RPM. We mounted the fish finder in front of the throttle so we couldn't get max throttle but just about. In our eyes we were maxed out for speed and I guess that is only about 3600 RPM. They changed the prop, removed the fish finder and could get about 4400 RPM.

Sorry, I didn't mean to question the buyer's integrity but either the integrity or knowledge of the servicing technician. To me the suggestion that an engine would be damaged as a result of not running it at the maximum RPM is absolute bunk and certainly warrants them getting a second opinion. I typically run my boat just over 4000 RPM for the sake of fuel mileage.

As mentioned, the only thing not hitting 6000 RPM could have had an effect on was the break in. However, with modern 4 stroke engines there are a variety of theories as to the "best" break in method. It is kind of one of those "each to their own" things. I personally followed the manufacturer's recommended procedure on my boat, simply for warranty purposes. On my new car, there was no suggested break it nor any sort of early oil change after purchase. These engines are designed for longevity and use right through the operating range.

[Nova]

I think everything is kosher. They aren't looking for anything, I think they just wanted to let me know. She emailed me and Supposedly the engine still runs but can blow up at anytime because of the high oil pressure. She said they told her somebody started it without oil (not us) and it was never run at max RPM. This didn't burn out the carbon which will burn out the pistons. They ordered a new motor for $13000 as a rebuild was $9000 but no warranty. Trying to sell the old one to recoup some money.

Thanks for all the advice. I've never sold anything for this much (>20K) and I was sure I was right by not offering any money but didn't want to come off as an arsehole.

Whoa! I was slow posting my response and didn't see this until after posting. I'd seriously suggest they pump the brakes a bit here. I think they are being taken for a ride.

[tbiddy]

Ya I'm surprised they are having issues. We bought the boat brand new. It was used maybe a couple times a week for the 1st year and less than that for the 2nd year. After that it was used 1 or 2 weekends a year for a couple years and then sat for 2 years before we sold it. It had been winterized by pros after every summer and all oil changes were done at shops. I guessed the hrs at 100 and when they got it diagnosed it was at 100.8. Very shocked that the motor is no good.

[tbiddy]

Whoa! I was slow posting my response and didn't see this until after posting. I'd seriously suggest they pump the brakes a bit here. I think they are being taken for a ride.

I know I would be questioning it. As it is now their boat I guess they can do whatever they want. Supposedly the new motor has already been ordered.

[600twin]

Dealer just mad a 13g sale + labor and probably money off the motor they have. ,tell them i have a bridge in New york for sale at a good price.

[beltburner]

that carbon build up line is the best

[HyperMOA]

that carbon build up line is the best

With the fuel we have today and the emission technology used today I totally agree. We don't see fouled engines like in the past. The only carboning I experience is usually a result of a turbo spewing oil into a combustion chamber, or a similar scenario.

Now if it was an old carbeurated unit with a stuck choke I might believe it. Many engines I disassemble nowadays you could eat off of the pistons.

[HyperMOA]

that carbon build up line is the best

Also carbon is usually an indicator of operation of a cold engine and never getting it up to operating temperature. Not an indication of running half throttle.