First Nations a Fed responsibility, why is Alberta buying houses?

[avb3]

Alberta is spending 5.6 million on housing for houses in Little Buffalo.

http://www2.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=88ca913e-52af-452e-923e-4e80b02afe24

That is the FN that has not adhered itself to Treaty 8, and is the only FN in Alberta not under treaty. Regardless, it is subject to the Indian Act.

The Alberta minister acknowledges that it is the federal responsibility, but conditions are such that action is needed now.

I know there is only one taxpayer, but I don't get why Alberta has taken this step. Why should only Albertan's be paying for this?

This is not a thread to argue about treaty rights, hunting, etc. (although I bet it will deteriorate to that). It is simply one to discuss why the heck is Alberta paying for something the feds should.

[elkhunter11]

If it's a federal responsibility, then the federal government should pay the bill.

[45/70/500]

its only money

[last minute]

:party0051:

[benamen]

You never know what goes on behind the scenes. Without a treaty, the federal government would not want to give a huge handout. But by having the provincial government build the homes, this won't be viewed as a commitment by the feds if things end up in court. Just my view on the situation.

[Kurt505]

Who else will do it?

[densa44]

If anyone can explain Native politics, I'm all ears, how long has this been going on for these people? Over 20 years that I'm aware of and still no progress.

The minister is right about the children.

[hillbillyreefer]

Doesn't really matter. There is only one taxpayer, what level of government urinates our money away doesn't really matter. Eliminating one level of government may save us money.

[Mb-MBR]

Federal, provincial crown argument is silly, always has been. There is only one British monarchy that governments, whether it be provincial or federal that they have sworn allegiance to...

Plus if Wood Buffalo doe not have a Treaty, I dare say the most recent SCC decision that acknowledges Title will serve Wood Buffalo VERY WELL.

Think of it as a royalty payment for all of the resource extraction that has gone on in their unceded traditional territory, to which they have Title.

[Kurt505]

Federal, provincial crown argument is silly, always has been. There is only one British monarchy that governments, whether it be provincial or federal that they have sworn allegiance to...

Plus if Wood Buffalo doe not have a Treaty, I dare say the most recent SCC decision that acknowledges Title will serve Wood Buffalo VERY WELL.

Think of it as a royalty payment for all of the resource extraction that has gone on in their unceded traditional territory, to which they have Title.

It's LITTLE buffalo, not WOOD buffalo. There's a little difference there...

But I agree 100%, it would be much better if all aboriginals could get royalties rather than government handouts. It would be a win win.

[Mb-MBR]

It's LITTLE buffalo, not WOOD buffalo. There's a little difference there...

Apologies for the error.....

[Mb-MBR]

If anyone can explain Native politics, I'm all ears, how long has this been going on for these people? Over 20 years that I'm aware of and still no progress.

The minister is right about the children.

You might be better off served trying to understand the fed/prov political regimes to gain more insight.

As I said in a previous post, if " LITTLE BUFFALO" does not have a Treaty, then they have Title to all of the traditional territory. Alberta government has no leg to stand on with this one!! 5mil will be a drop in the bucket.

The Supreme Court ruled the previous exercise of governments of putting dots on the map to identify land used by First Nations is wrong and further recognized the fact that First nations were nomadic and used their territory for existence. To which they still retain Title.

Little Buffalo now has a say bordering on consent before any development can occur on their lands.

[Kurt505]

You might be better off served trying to understand the fed/prov political regimes to gain more insight.

As I said in a previous post, if " LITTLE BUFFALO" does not have a Treaty, then they have Title to all of the traditional territory. Alberta government has no leg to stand on with this one!! 5mil will be a drop in the bucket.

The Supreme Court ruled the previous exercise of governments of putting dots on the map to identify land used by First Nations is wrong and further recognized the fact that First nations were nomadic and used their territory for existence. To which they still retain Title.

Little Buffalo now has a say bordering on consent before any development can occur on their lands.

So what you're saying is Alberta is getting off easy right?

In a perfect world, aboriginals would have the rights to their land and all it's bounty, in turn the Canadian government would owe them nothing unless it was doing business on their land.

I think spending 50 billion dollars to go around any unruly land owners, no matter their race or religion, would be a drop in the bucket for big oil to never have to worry about making hush payments to anyone.

Wanting more and more and more and more can only end up in a couple ways, neither of which would benefit the wanters. The Alberta government is stepping up to the plate to help out, but instead of you commending them, you say they're getting off easy..... For now.

I don't see anyone else helping, I'm sure there are reserves in Alberta that are doing well, what's stopping them from helping out?

[Mb-MBR]

So what you're saying is Alberta is getting off easy right?
In a perfect world, aboriginals would have the rights to their land and all it's bounty, in turn the Canadian government would owe them nothing unless it was doing business on their land.

I think spending 50 billion dollars to go around any unruly land owners, no matter their race or religion, would be a drop in the bucket for big oil to never have to worry about making hush payments to anyone.

Wanting more and more and more and more can only end up in a couple ways, neither of which would benefit the wanters. The Alberta government is stepping up to the plate to help out, but instead of you commending them, you say they're getting off easy..... For now.

I don't see anyone else helping, I'm sure there are reserves in Alberta that are doing well, what's stopping them from helping out?

Very easy......we do not want more only equal, concept of Treaty.

Stepping up, pullllleaze, you really believe that?? I give you more credit than that, so I'm putting this emoticon here !!!:snapoutofit: Politicians and governments only do what they have to, the minimum.

I will defer to the recent SCC..................HUGE implications to non Treaty First Nations, HUGE.

[Kurt505]

Very easy......we do not want more only equal, concept of Treaty.

Stepping up, pullllleaze, you really believe that?? I give you more credit than that, so I'm putting this emoticon here !!!:snapoutofit: Politicians and governments only do what they have to, the minimum.

I will defer to the recent SCC..................HUGE implications to non Treaty First Nations, HUGE.

Tell me why there is NOT ONE aboriginal group in all of Canada willing to step up and help?

Oil company's will spend millions of dollars not to have to pay a stubborn farmer a few thousand. Given the choice, I think it would work the same way with aboriginals.

Your posts have an arrogance to them, you seem to think you have non aboriginal Canadians by the balls and there's nothing we can do about it. You can't even look past your nose to see the good that tax paying Canadians do. It's always "you just wait" with you. It's this kind of arrogance that sickens me.

[elkhunter11]

Very easy......we do not want more only equal

:snapoutofit:

If every man woman and child in Canada,were made equal under the law, you would be among the first people to complain.

[Mb-MBR]

Tell me why there is NOT ONE aboriginal group in all of Canada willing to step up and help?

Oil company's will spend millions of dollars not to have to pay a stubborn farmer a few thousand. Given the choice, I think it would work the same way with aboriginals.

Your posts have an arrogance to them, you seem to think you have non aboriginal Canadians by the balls and there's nothing we can do about it. You can't even look past your nose to see the good that tax paying Canadians do. It's always "you just wait" with you. It's this kind of arrogance that sickens me.

Kurt.................have a snickers, you're not being yourself. Big difference between a farmer and Indians who have retained Title as recognized by the SCC.

Why do you call it arrogance when I stand up and defend my ancestors understanding of Treaty and you can espouse your beliefs the way you do and its ok?

As for the tax payer, I've been paying since I was 16, so I have great respect for the tax payer. I wish you would take some time to review how taxes were introduced in this country. There was no such thing at the signing of Treaties. We weren't supposed to gain benefit from the tax payer....it was supposed to come from the wealth of this country.

I will debate you and others on this matter till the cows come home, the roosters roost, the bears den and will retain my civility and will refrain from name calling and without anger. Please conduct yourself with the same accord and we may get somewhere.....no I'm not meaning agreement, maybe an understanding and an agreement to respectfully disagree.

[marxman]

But I agree 100%, it would be much better if all aboriginals could get royalties rather than government handouts. It would be a win win.

not even on the table, they want both. now theres a win win

[Kurt505]

Kurt.................have a snickers, you're not being yourself. Big difference between a farmer and Indians who have retained Title as recognized by the SCC.

Why do you call it arrogance when I stand up and defend my ancestors understanding of Treaty and you can espouse your beliefs the way you do and its ok?

As for the tax payer, I've been paying since I was 16, so I have great respect for the tax payer. I wish you would take some time to review how taxes were introduced in this country. There was no such thing at the signing of Treaties. We weren't supposed to gain benefit from the tax payer....it was supposed to come from the wealth of this country.

I will debate you and others on this matter till the cows come home, the roosters roost, the bears den and will retain my civility and will refrain from name calling and without anger. Please conduct yourself with the same accord and we may get somewhere.....no I'm not meaning agreement, maybe an understanding and an agreement to respectfully disagree.

There's no name calling going on here???

Not once have I ever witnessed a post from you recognizing what the Canadian government has done for aboriginal people.

Now, can you give me a good explanation why not one band has stepped up to help Little Buffalo?

[Kurt505]

not even on the table, they want both. now theres a win win

I know, right?

I am a businessman, and I understand how some things work. In the construction business, when things are done properly, people want something built, they hire a contractor for a fair market price and the job is completed to customer satisfaction, everyone goes home happy knowing a fair transaction has occurred. In some cases however, unexpected situations may arise causing a change order, which for the layman is a side contract so to speak is made to correct the situation. This may happen a couple times which can be normal, however if these change orders persist it usually the result from poor planning or gross negligence one one or more parties behalf, at which time a re-evaluation of the situation is paramount in order to have an amicable resolution and continue forward on said project and future projects for all parties involved. If one party seem to always be a wrench in the project, it may be time to reassess said parties involvement it the equation in order for projects to continue in a win win conclusion to the project. At some point, if an owner keeps adding more work to the project without paying the contractor for services, the contractor may have to put a stop to their services and give someone else the option of doing the contract for the owner. Problem is, some owners get a reputation for doing bad business, making it hard to find a contractor, then when they do find a contractor it's usually for a higher price than market value because no one else wants to do business with them.

At least that's how it works in construction.

[marxman]

yes and its irrelevant we are not talking about a system of balancing factors

[Red Bullets]

Alberta is spending 5.6 million on housing for houses in Little Buffalo.

http://www2.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=88ca913e-52af-452e-923e-4e80b02afe24

That is the FN that has not adhered itself to Treaty 8, and is the only FN in Alberta not under treaty. Regardless, it is subject to the Indian Act.

The Alberta minister acknowledges that it is the federal responsibility, but conditions are such that action is needed now.

I know there is only one taxpayer, but I don't get why Alberta has taken this step. Why should only Albertan's be paying for this?
This is not a thread to argue about treaty rights, hunting, etc. (although I bet it will deteriorate to that). It is simply one to discuss why the heck is Alberta paying for something the feds should.


Because the FN group lives in Alberta territory. Would you sooner that Albertans pay for urgent FN housing in Nova Scotia?

Tim Hortons could pay for these houses with one days profits in Alberta.

And besides, Albertans are not 'paying'. They are giving back to those who have had injustice since settlement.


on a side note:
Because the Feds are starting to give land and rights back to FN in BC & Alta, I would like to see what happens if the Papaschase FN go back to court. They have land claims for 48 square miles of south Edmonton. From 17 street to 122street and from ellerslie road to 51 avenue. Papaschase reserve was governent surveyed and settled in 1880. Treaties do apply in this case.

ᐊᐢ ᓬᐅᐣg ᐊᐢ ᖧ ᐊᐧᑌᕒᐢ fᓬᐅᐤ

[Mb-MBR]

There's no name calling going on here???

Not once have I ever witnessed a post from you recognizing what the Canadian government has done for aboriginal people.

Now, can you give me a good explanation why not one band has stepped up to help Little Buffalo?

Oh I recognized and have lived what the Canadian government has done for Aboriginal people. You seem to think what they've done is good for everyone including the Indian. I suggest you read up on what the Canadian government has done and you might realize why we're in the state we're in. There is not enough room in this forum to list these niceties you are looking for.

I think Little Buffalo will be able to look after itself with their recognition of Title. If governments want to live up to their creed of governing, then they should act like the fiduciary they're supposed to be...

[Mb-MBR]

I know, right?

I am a businessman, and I understand how some things work. In the construction business, when things are done properly, people want something built, they hire a contractor for a fair market price and the job is completed to customer satisfaction, everyone goes home happy knowing a fair transaction has occurred. In some cases however, unexpected situations may arise causing a change order, which for the layman is a side contract so to speak is made to correct the situation. This may happen a couple times which can be normal, however if these change orders persist it usually the result from poor planning or gross negligence one one or more parties behalf, at which time a re-evaluation of the situation is paramount in order to have an amicable resolution and continue forward on said project and future projects for all parties involved. If one party seem to always be a wrench in the project, it may be time to reassess said parties involvement it the equation in order for projects to continue in a win win conclusion to the project. At some point, if an owner keeps adding more work to the project without paying the contractor for services, the contractor may have to put a stop to their services and give someone else the option of doing the contract for the owner. Problem is, some owners get a reputation for doing bad business, making it hard to find a contractor, then when they do find a contractor it's usually for a higher price than market value because no one else wants to do business with them. At least that's how it works in construction.

Well if you want to use the construction analogy, consider the Indians the contractor and the government the client. Might help with the picture.

[Kurt505]

Well if you want to use the construction analogy, consider the Indians the contractor and the government the client. Might help with the picture.

Well the contractor is not doing service at a reasonable rate, time for a new contractor. The current contractor will be bankrupt in no time if this happens.

Now about the aboriginal bail out money for fellow aboriginals... Where is it???

[Mb-MBR]

Well the contractor is not doing service at a reasonable rate, time for a new contractor. The current contractor will be bankrupt in no time if this happens.

Now about the aboriginal bail out money for fellow aboriginals... Where is it???

Well feel free to look for another one. Good luck with that.

No need for Aboriginal "bail out" money as you call it if the British Crown and its successive Canadian government would live up to the spirit and intent of the Treaties. We will get there, not sure if it will be in mine or your lifetime, but we will.

The SCC has been balancing the scales of justice in favour of the Indian/Metis for a few decades now. Governments will soon have to decide if its worth continuing this argument in the courts or realize they have to uphold the Honour of The Crown as assured in the Royal Proclamation.

[BeeGuy]

There's no name calling going on here???

Not once have I ever witnessed a post from you recognizing what the Canadian government has done for aboriginal people.

Now, can you give me a good explanation why not one band has stepped up to help Little Buffalo?

It is hard for many people to look past the genocide, biological warfare, pedophilia and so on.

To some, money means more than decency.

[elkhunter11]

No need for Aboriginal "bail out" money as you call it if the British Crown and its successive Canadian government would live up to the spirit and intent of the Treaties. We will get there, not sure if it will be in mine or your lifetime, but we will.

Since neither you, nor I were present when each treaty was signed, we can't know for sure what the spirit and intent of each treaty was.

Canada is a great country, but having different laws for different races, is keeping it from ever reaching it's true potential.
If you keep giving out more and more, to people that want special treatment, with less people paying taxes, the tax burden on each taxpayer will grow until they are sick and tired, and decide not to take it anymore. I am kind of glad to be middle aged, because I don't want to be here, when that happens, and civil unrest breaks out.

[ali#1]

Since neither you, nor I were present when each treaty was signed, we can't know for sure what the spirit and intent of each treaty was.

Canada is a great country, but having different laws for different races, is keeping it from ever reaching it's true potential.
If you keep giving out more and more, to people that want special treatment, with less people paying taxes, the tax burden on each taxpayer will grow until they are sick and tired, and decide not to take it anymore. I am kind of glad to be middle aged, because I don't want to be here, when that happens, and civil unrest breaks out.

Don't make treaties if you don't plan on living up to your end.

While I agree with your sentiment especially about taxes I disagree that you can just break a treaty that's hundreds of years old because you don't like it.

[Mb-MBR]

Since neither you, nor I were present when each treaty was signed, we can't know for sure what the spirit and intent of each treaty was.
Canada is a great country, but having different laws for different races, is keeping it from ever reaching it's true potential.
If you keep giving out more and more, to people that want special treatment, with less people paying taxes, the tax burden on each taxpayer will grow until they are sick and tired, and decide not to take it anymore. I am kind of glad to be middle aged, because I don't want to be here, when that happens, and civil unrest breaks out.

Agreed neither of us was there at the signing but there's enough evidence both written and oral that any reasonable person with half a mind should deduce that what has happened since then is wrong. What people in any part of this world would agree to give up, cede or surrender land the size of what is now known as Canada in exchange for these miniscule land masses called reserves. Do people really think our people were that stupid or any people would be that stupid???

It is not about wanting more but wanting equal as agreed to in the Treaties.

The unrest you speak of does not have to happen. Governments just need to act honorably and quit the charades. In light of the most recent ruling the BC government has called for a summit to take place September 11th with the BC First Nation organizations to commence dialogue for a path forward.

[elkhunter11]

Agreed neither of us was there at the signing but there's enough evidence both written and oral that any reasonable person with half a mind should deduce that what has happened since then is wrong. What people in any part of this world would agree to give up, cede or surrender land the size of what is now known as Canada in exchange for these miniscule land masses called reserves. Do people really think our people were that stupid or any people would be that stupid???


Perhaps they preferred taking what was offered, rather than risk being in a war, that they would eventually lose, and perhaps be wiped out entirely. We weren't there, so we don't know what their reasoning was.

It is not about wanting more but wanting equal as agreed to in the Treaties.

Getting special treatment, because of your race, is not being equal. I have read the texts of several treaties, and equality was not mentioned in any of them.

The unrest you speak of does not have to happen. Governments just need to act honorably and quit the charades. In light of the most recent ruling the BC government has called for a summit to take place September 11th with the BC First Nation organizations to commence dialogue for a path forward.

Someone will have to pay for what would have to be given up to appease the natives. That means more tax burden in a time when the baby boomers are retiring, and companies are not replacing them, in an effort to cut costs. The end result, is more taxes to be paid, by less taxpayers. Eventually, those Canadian taxpayers will grow tired of carrying the nation, and things will get ugly. As it is, we either have to cut social programs or increase taxes, which takes away the incentive to work for a living, but increasing the debt to appease the natives will just put more strain on the system, and speed up the process.

[diamonddave]

Equality is that every person born today, is free here in Canada to make his own choices in an effort to better himself. I don't see any other population in Canada being GIVEN that kind of money. Equality is everyone working and doing the best they can to support themselves. If you chose not to then so be it, but it should be at your own risk.
Why should I have to work for 7 months of the year, just to give that money to the gov't, for them to hand out to people who can work, but chose not to?
That is not Equality.

[diamonddave]

[QUOTE=Mb-MBR;2482550]Agreed neither of us was there at the signing but there's enough evidence both written and oral that any reasonable person with half a mind should deduce that what has happened since then is wrong. What people in any part of this world would agree to give up, cede or surrender land the size of what is now known as Canada in exchange for these miniscule land masses called reserves. Do people really think our people were that stupid or any people would be that stupid???

It is not about wanting more but wanting equal as agreed to in the Treaties.

...... should have some more "idle no more" protests

[elkhunter11]

Equality is that every person born today, is free here in Canada to make his own choices in an effort to better himself. I don't see any other population in Canada being GIVEN that kind of money. Equality is everyone working and doing the best they can to support themselves. If you chose not to then so be it, but it should be at your own risk.
Why should I have to work for 7 months of the year, just to give that money to the gov't, for them to hand out to people who can work, but chose not to?
That is not Equality.

Just look at our charter of rights, and it becomes very apparent that all Canadians are not equal under the law. One section starts out claiming equality in sub section 1, but subsection 2 , makes the first sub section meaningless.

[diamonddave]

My point exactly!! It's all a bunch of B.S

[Mb-MBR]

Equality is that every person born today, is free here in Canada to make his own choices in an effort to better himself. I don't see any other population in Canada being GIVEN that kind of money. Equality is everyone working and doing the best they can to support themselves. If you chose not to then so be it, but it should be at your own risk.
Why should I have to work for 7 months of the year, just to give that money to the gov't, for them to hand out to people who can work, but chose not to?
That is not Equality.

I think if you take a real hard honest look at who the government gives money to the Indian should be the least of your worries!!!! It amounts to around 3% of what they hand out.

[Mb-MBR]

Just look at our charter of rights, and it becomes very apparent that all Canadians are not equal under the law. One section starts out claiming equality in sub section 1, but subsection 2 , makes the first sub section meaningless.

You make it sound like we were "equal" before the Charter.

[Mb-MBR]

Equality is that every person born today, is free here in Canada to make his own choices in an effort to better himself. I don't see any other population in Canada being GIVEN that kind of money. Equality is everyone working and doing the best they can to support themselves. If you chose not to then so be it, but it should be at your own risk.
Why should I have to work for 7 months of the year, just to give that money to the gov't, for them to hand out to people who can work, but chose not to?
That is not Equality.

Just another footnote, I work 12 months of the year been doing so since I was 16. Must be nice to only work 7 months of the year:sHa_shakeshout:

[diamonddave]

I think if you take a real hard honest look at who the government gives money to the Indian should be the least of your worries!!!! It amounts to around 3% of what they hand out.

lol and how much do they hand out to me?? Oh ya, that's right they don't, I hand them 60% of my money.

How much does the average FN hand over to the gov't?

[diamonddave]

Just another footnote, I work 12 months of the year been doing so since I was 16. Must be nice to only work 7 months of the year:sHa_shakeshout:

You missed the point...... I work the same 12 months of the year, but I have to give 7 months of my wages to the Gov't before I get any.

Now can you answer my question Mb?

[Mb-MBR]

lol and how much do they hand out to me?? Oh ya, that's right they don't, I hand them 60% of my money.

How much does the average FN hand over to the gov't?

Define average? If your asking me, I probably hand over more than you because you don't have a sales tax (yet) in Alberta. The beneficiaries of these handouts are big and small businesses in little towns and big cities; consider it government's "stimulus" to the economy. None of that money is saved and is largely spent, so in essence people getting these monies are conduits for the business community.

Again, do some research on the tax regime in Canada. It was never our understanding we were supposed to get tax payers money, we were to benefit off the wealth of this land. I imagine that would equate to a percentage of the GDP of the extracted natural resources abroad.

[Kurt505]

Well feel free to look for another one. Good luck with that.

No need for Aboriginal "bail out" money as you call it if the British Crown and its successive Canadian government would live up to the spirit and intent of the Treaties. We will get there, not sure if it will be in mine or your lifetime, but we will.

The SCC has been balancing the scales of justice in favour of the Indian/Metis for a few decades now. Governments will soon have to decide if its worth continuing this argument in the courts or realize they have to uphold the Honour of The Crown as assured in the Royal Proclamation.

I'll help you out, the reason no other aboriginal group has helped out Little Buffalo is greed and dependence.

Here's what I think would happen if the Aboriginals were given back the land, and the rent payments stopped. Every band would be on their own. Some would get rich from oil company's, others would get nothing, but the rich ones would have no obligation to help out the poor ones. The poor ones would have to work or sell their land. The ones getting rich would only do so if they conducted fair business, otherwise the oil company's would do business with the ones who are being fair, not every band would be needed. After time, big oil would offer enough money to buy the land from the aboriginals, any talk of environmental rights would go out the window in favor of corporate greed. The aboriginals would be in the same shoes as the non aboriginals, without government favortization.

[elkhunter11]

You make it sound like we were "equal" before the Charter.


The Charter just added another obstacle to prevent us from being equal.

[avb3]

Well, so much for my last statement in the OP.


"This is not a thread to argue about treaty rights, hunting, etc. (although I bet it will deteriorate to that). It is simply one to discuss why the heck is Alberta paying for something the feds should be."

Guess it was predictable.

[Buckhead]

Define average? If your asking me, I probably hand over more than you because you don't have a sales tax (yet) in Alberta. The beneficiaries of these handouts are big and small businesses in little towns and big cities; consider it government's "stimulus" to the economy. None of that money is saved and is largely spent, so in essence people getting these monies are conduits for the business community.

Again, do some research on the tax regime in Canada. It was never our understanding we were supposed to get tax payers money, we were to benefit off the wealth of this land. I imagine that would equate to a percentage of the GDP of the extracted natural resources abroad.

The wealth of the land comes from the taxpayers and their assets and investments.
Without those there is no "wealth of the land".

[marxman]

The wealth of the land comes from the taxpayers and their assets and investments.
Without those there is no "wealth of the land".

thats right sort of . plus the govt legal and regulatory system and infrastructure plus the workforce. canadians made the value of the land nobody gave it to us

[brownbomber]

You missed the point...... I work the same 12 months of the year, but I have to give 7 months of my wages to the Gov't before I get any.

Now can you answer my question Mb?

How do you figure? I know I'm in a fairly high bracket (obviously some kind of political job placement being FN) and 60% seems ridiculous. You factoring fuel tax gst and what else? Or do you live in Sweden?

Really I haven't been on in two weeks and this kind of stuff keeps me away. The average FN guy works and pays taxes, there are a higher percentage of those who don't though. Not exactly a secret.
Some guys are gonna see the bad in FN issues no matter what. Others will see the travesty of the past no matter what. Same old.

Have a nice summer

[rugatika]

Money from the Federal government or Alberta government...six of one, half a dozen of the other. Just cutting out the middle man. The only people that should be up in arms over this are all the federal bureucrats that aren't laying their hands on this money before it's doled out. (well, and people that think nobody is doing anyone any favours by doling the money out in the first place....to whoever that may be matters little)

[Mb-MBR]

I'll help you out, the reason no other aboriginal group has helped out Little Buffalo is greed and dependence.

Here's what I think would happen if the Aboriginals were given back the land, and the rent payments stopped. Every band would be on their own. Some would get rich from oil company's, others would get nothing, but the rich ones would have no obligation to help out the poor ones. The poor ones would have to work or sell their land. The ones getting rich would only do so if they conducted fair business, otherwise the oil company's would do business with the ones who are being fair, not every band would be needed. After time, big oil would offer enough money to buy the land from the aboriginals, any talk of environmental rights would go out the window in favor of corporate greed. The aboriginals would be in the same shoes as the non aboriginals, without government favortization.

I hope I live long enough to have a chance at your hypothetical. You make it sound as if we weren't organized or governing prior to the Europeans coming here. We had laws, government systems, Treaties with other indigenous nations and trade with other nations.

We weren't hap hazzardly wandering around lake shores or in the woods scrounging for our next meal. Have to open your mind to some possibilities, a closed mind is a terrible thing to waste....

[Mb-MBR]

The Charter just added another obstacle to prevent us from being equal.

And you're blaming us for that as well!!!!

[Mb-MBR]

The wealth of the land comes from the taxpayers and their assets and investments.
Without those there is no "wealth of the land".

If you want to strictly define wealth as dollars an cents, that could be true.

[elkhunter11]

And you're blaming us for that as well!!!!

I am blaming the spineless government that wrote the charter. Of course they were under pressure from various groups, the natives being one. Can you imagine the outcry from those groups if all Canadians suddenly became equal under the lay, and there was no longer any special treatment for them?

[hal53]

My one and only post about this, if those people are living in horrid conditions, get some decent housing in there, no one gives a hoot who pays for it...help them!, joe taxpayer is paying one way or the other. The only thing I suggest is some oversight is included, as a lot of people are sick and tired of the stories about the Chief and his direct family pocketing everything, while the rest live in squalor...that is where the problem lies...

[Buckhead]

If you want to strictly define wealth as dollars an cents, that could be true.

The natural resources are of no value until someone extracts them.
That takes forming a company or corporation - and a huge investment of time and money - from investors and shareholders - most of which are taxpayers like you and I.

[greybeard]

You are right about the Feds. If the money doesn't show up on their debt sheet, they look good when they report that they have cut the budget. The feds like to download any responsibilities to the Provincial level and the provinces like to download it onto the municipalities and cities.
The cities have no choice but to raise the city taxes because they can't download the responsibility any further. The Feds were elected to make these difficult decisions but they dare not make them less they lose the next election, (which is a horror to all pols), be flailed alive by the Loyal
Opposition or be the laughing stock of the screaming media.

[Mb-MBR]

The natural resources are of no value until someone extracts them.
That takes forming a company or corporation - and a huge investment of time and money - from investors and shareholders - most of which are taxpayers like you and I.

Most of the extraction being done is by off shore companies and our governments undervalue the resource.

But I agree with your point, you do need someone to extract..

[Mb-MBR]

Well, I'm out of here, this thread has run its course.

Till the next one, think I'll drift over to the buy and sell and see if there's a decent rim fire for sale.

[greylynx]

What happened to the last house?

Stupid Whities.

[Wild&Free]

Well the contractor is not doing service at a reasonable rate, time for a new contractor. The current contractor will be bankrupt in no time if this happens.

Now about the aboriginal bail out money for fellow aboriginals... Where is it???

What you're talking about, aboriginals aiding aboriginals is the equivalent of Canada helping Sumatra. it's foriegn aid. not all aborignals are the same just as all Caucasians in Europe are not the same.

do you believe that forign aid is a mandatory expendature?

[greylynx]

There is 10 billion dollars of federal funds allocated to my Native Brethren every year.

Could you imagine what would happen if this 10 billion actually went to my Native Brethren instead of a bunch of federal government bureaucrats working for the federal civil service.

It ain't gonna happen until "Harper" really cleans out the civil service.

And do not give me that garbage that my Native Brethren are too stupid to know how to spend the money. They will be hiring guys like old greylynx.

[Wild&Free]

My one and only post about this, if those people are living in horrid conditions, get some decent housing in there, no one gives a hoot who pays for it...help them!, joe taxpayer is paying one way or the other. The only thing I suggest is some oversight is included, as a lot of people are sick and tired of the stories about the Chief and his direct family pocketing everything, while the rest live in squalor...that is where the problem lies...

X2

I like it when I can agree with you Hal.

[Kurt505]

I hope I live long enough to have a chance at your hypothetical. You make it sound as if we weren't organized or governing prior to the Europeans coming here. We had laws, government systems, Treaties with other indigenous nations and trade with other nations.

We weren't hap hazzardly wandering around lake shores or in the woods scrounging for our next meal. Have to open your mind to some possibilities, a closed mind is a terrible thing to waste....


Who are you trying to kid? You were not united in one Canada to begin with. If a Cree found a Blackfoot on his turf, there was a dead Blackfoot. I was on the Rez last weekend, there were two attendants watching the pumps so they wouldn't get robbed blind by the people on their own reserve. We were warned of a member of their own band counsel who was a crackhead who tried to charge people for fishing in the river by the reserve, not to pay him and to tell him to take a hike. I'm not making this up or exaggerating, this is how it is. If you think the corruption of chiefs and counsel will magically stop when things change, your sadly mistaken. How long did idle no more last?

I'm not saying aboriginals will be left wondering aimlessly, I'm saying they will not all unit as one and run Canada. Without the Canadian government acting as the glue that holds you together, personal greed will tear you apart and what will look good at first will be lost and ultimately you will be left as an equal to the white man. There will be a winner, but I don't believe it will be the team your cheering for. Of course this is solely my opinion and by no means a guaranteed outcome, but like Spider-mans uncle says, "with great power comes great responsibility", not all men can handle it, especially when they have no one to answer to.

This thread started out as a thread about the Alberta government stepping in to help the little buffalo in their time in need. Why did they do it? Because no one else would, not even their fellow aboriginal people, so the evil Alberta government and people of Alberta stepped in to help out. Maybe instead of suggesting they are getting off easy you should have commended their actions, but that would mean you would have to put your feelings of entitlement behind you.

[diamonddave]

How do you figure? I know I'm in a fairly high bracket (obviously some kind of political job placement being FN) and 60% seems ridiculous. You factoring fuel tax gst and what else? Or do you live in Sweden?

Really I haven't been on in two weeks and this kind of stuff keeps me away. The average FN guy works and pays taxes, there are a higher percentage of those who don't though. Not exactly a secret.
Some guys are gonna see the bad in FN issues no matter what. Others will see the travesty of the past no matter what. Same old.

Have a nice summer

Well bomber you can do the math for yourself, but in my case my net is just about half the gross so that money is goin somewhere. And part of it is going towards the 5.6 million dollars in housing. And to reiterate a recent post, where did the first 5.6 million dollars in houses go?

[Wild&Free]

Who are you trying to kid? You were not united in one Canada to begin with. If a Cree found a Blackfoot on his turf, there was a dead Blackfoot. I was on the Rez last weekend, there were two attendants watching the pumps so they wouldn't get robbed blind by the people on their own reserve. We were warned of a member of their own band counsel who was a crackhead who tried to charge people for fishing in the river by the reserve, not to pay him and to tell him to take a hike. I'm not making this up or exaggerating, this is how it is. If you think the corruption of chiefs and counsel will magically stop when things change, your sadly mistaken. How long did idle no more last?

I'm not saying aboriginals will be left wondering aimlessly, I'm saying they will not all unit as one and run Canada. Without the Canadian government acting as the glue that holds you together, personal greed will tear you apart and what will look good at first will be lost and ultimately you will be left as an equal to the white man. There will be a winner, but I don't believe it will be the team your cheering for. Of course this is solely my opinion and by no means a guaranteed outcome, but like Spider-mans uncle says, "with great power comes great responsibility", not all men can handle it, especially when they have no one to answer to.

This thread started out as a thread about the Alberta government stepping in to help the little buffalo in their time in need. Why did they do it? Because no one else would, not even their fellow aboriginal people, so the evil Alberta government and people of Alberta stepped in to help out. Maybe instead of suggesting they are getting off easy you should have commended their actions, but that would mean you would have to put your feelings of entitlement behind you.

Europe is united under the EU... how's that going?

In all honesty I would love to have seen the nation's and cultures of this land a 1000 year's ago and compare it to where my ancestors came from.

[pickrel pat]

My one and only post about this, if those people are living in horrid conditions, get some decent housing in there, no one gives a hoot who pays for it...help them!, joe taxpayer is paying one way or the other. The only thing I suggest is some oversight is included, as a lot of people are sick and tired of the stories about the Chief and his direct family pocketing everything, while the rest live in squalor...that is where the problem lies...

Yup.... X 43.7 I don't care if your a half breed purple, pink, sucker fish....get it to them.... Does this mean no second lake cottage? Whatever.

[brownbomber]

Well bomber you can do the math for yourself, but in my case my net is just about half the gross so that money is goin somewhere. And part of it is going towards the 5.6 million dollars in housing. And to reiterate a recent post, where did the first 5.6 million dollars in houses go?

Wow, unless you're getting a massive chunk back you need a accountant. Lol. Click in the link below.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html
I don't think I posted anything other than my feelings that this is a divide issue and it's what Keeps me away from the forum at times. I have no idea where the money went. Unless I missed it I don't think I posted my opinion on it either did I? Or did I? No wait I didn't.

[marxman]

why isnt there national media attention? this situation seems to be made for it. it does matter who pays. the feds need to keep control. new brunswick would not think they could afford to do the same thing in a similar situation so the feds shouldnt let their responsibility lapse and the provinces take up the slack its divisive

[marxman]

i googled billy joe laboucan and came up with stories about the bands recent history wow what a mess theres got to be more that the province is trying to co opt from the feds

[Mb-MBR]

Who are you trying to kid? You were not united in one Canada to begin with. If a Cree found a Blackfoot on his turf, there was a dead Blackfoot. I was on the Rez last weekend, there were two attendants watching the pumps so they wouldn't get robbed blind by the people on their own reserve. We were warned of a member of their own band counsel who was a crackhead who tried to charge people for fishing in the river by the reserve, not to pay him and to tell him to take a hike. I'm not making this up or exaggerating, this is how it is. If you think the corruption of chiefs and counsel will magically stop when things change, your sadly mistaken. How long did idle no more last?

I'm not saying aboriginals will be left wondering aimlessly, I'm saying they will not all unit as one and run Canada. Without the Canadian government acting as the glue that holds you together, personal greed will tear you apart and what will look good at first will be lost and ultimately you will be left as an equal to the white man. There will be a winner, but I don't believe it will be the team your cheering for. Of course this is solely my opinion and by no means a guaranteed outcome, but like Spider-mans uncle says, "with great power comes great responsibility", not all men can handle it, especially when they have no one to answer to.

This thread started out as a thread about the Alberta government stepping in to help the little buffalo in their time in need. Why did they do it? Because no one else would, not even their fellow aboriginal people, so the evil Alberta government and people of Alberta stepped in to help out. Maybe instead of suggesting they are getting off easy you should have commended their actions, but that would mean you would have to put your feelings of entitlement behind you.

I didn't say we were united. That's like saying Muslims and Christians are united, like the French and English, like the Liberals, PCs and NDP are united, why should we be held to a different standard than the European people/nations, we're just as diverse or even more diverse than any other country? If it wasn't for the Blackfoot in Alberta the Metis would have had rights in Southern Alberta but they were aggressive in protecting their territory against all invaders.

As for the current issues we have on reserves, I cant disagree with what you're witnessing,I'm not there so I take your word for it. But jeez how is that any different than what your former premiere put your province through, why is that ok or different, what was her excuse and why and how did she get away with it? Plus you're painting all of the people from the community with the same brush, which is pretty common with folks like you. There are most likely a lot of good people from that reserve but you focus on the negative.

Can you find any good in any Indian in your circle? Or are we all scumbags, crackheads and corrupt in your eyes, takers, sucking on the public teat?

Read that article and again and you tell me if it was all from the good of the heart from the Alberta government, there's a power play going on there and this is no more than another pay off. Why are they magically concerned one week after the SCC Title decision. That problem has been there for decades, why act now? The chief would be crazy to enter into a Treaty negotiation, CRAZY.

[Kurt505]

I didn't say we were united. That's like saying Muslims and Christians are united, like the French and English, like the Liberals, PCs and NDP are united, why should we be held to a different standard than the European people/nations, we're just as diverse or even more diverse than any other country? If it wasn't for the Blackfoot in Alberta the Metis would have had rights in Southern Alberta but they were aggressive in protecting their territory against all invaders.

As for the current issues we have on reserves, I cant disagree with what you're witnessing,I'm not there so I take your word for it. But jeez how is that any different than what your former premiere put your province through, why is that ok or different, what was her excuse and why and how did she get away with it? Plus you're painting all of the people from the community with the same brush, which is pretty common with folks like you. There are most likely a lot of good people from that reserve but you focus on the negative.

Can you find any good in any Indian in your circle? Or are we all scumbags, crackheads and corrupt in your eyes, takers, sucking on the public teat?

Read that article and again and you tell me if it was all from the good of the heart from the Alberta government, there's a power play going on there and this is no more than another pay off. Why are they magically concerned one week after the SCC Title decision. That problem has been there for decades, why act now? The chief would be crazy to enter into a Treaty negotiation, CRAZY.


You don't get it, and have such a high feeling of entitlement you probably never will. AT LEAST SOMEONE STEPPED UP TO HELP THEM OUT!!! And it wasn't their own people.

I'm not saying all are bad, I'm not saying chaos will ensue, I'm saying that once the treaty is abolished you won't have that to keep you all united.

And by the way, I have, and have had aboriginal friends my whole life, I also have and have had aboriginal employees. I just have no use for the the ones who have the feeling I owe them something. Your one to talk, the Alberta government steps in to help a reserve, and you can't see it as a good thing, you see it as a ploy.

I wish all aboriginals would get their own turf back, and we can stop the rent payments and all be equals seeing a how we're all Canadians and deserve to be treated as equals.

[1899b]

I didn't say we were united. That's like saying Muslims and Christians are united, like the French and English, like the Liberals, PCs and NDP are united, why should we be held to a different standard than the European people/nations, we're just as diverse or even more diverse than any other country? If it wasn't for the Blackfoot in Alberta the Metis would have had rights in Southern Alberta but they were aggressive in protecting their territory against all invaders.

As for the current issues we have on reserves, I cant disagree with what you're witnessing,I'm not there so I take your word for it. But jeez how is that any different than what your former premiere put your province through, why is that ok or different, what was her excuse and why and how did she get away with it? Plus you're painting all of the people from the community with the same brush, which is pretty common with folks like you. There are most likely a lot of good people from that reserve but you focus on the negative.

Can you find any good in any Indian in your circle? Or are we all scumbags, crackheads and corrupt in your eyes, takers, sucking on the public teat?

Read that article and again and you tell me if it was all from the good of the heart from the Alberta government, there's a power play going on there and this is no more than another pay off. Why are they magically concerned one week after the SCC Title decision. That problem has been there for decades, why act now? The chief would be crazy to enter into a Treaty negotiation, CRAZY.

I can vouch that Kurt505 can find good in natives and had native friends growing up. We are the same age, and grew up mere houses apart and attended the same school(s). He like many of us is just fed right up....:)

[Mb-MBR]

You don't get it, and have such a high feeling of entitlement you probably never will. AT LEAST SOMEONE STEPPED UP TO HELP THEM OUT!!! And it wasn't their own people.

I'm not saying all are bad, I'm not saying chaos will ensue, I'm saying that once the treaty is abolished you won't have that to keep you all united.

And by the way, I have, and have had aboriginal friends my whole life, I also have and have had aboriginal employees. I just have no use for the the ones who have the feeling I owe them something. Your one to talk, the Alberta government steps in to help a reserve, and you can't see it as a good thing, you see it as a ploy.

I wish all aboriginals would get their own turf back, and we can stop the rent payments and all be equals seeing a how we're all Canadians and deserve to be treated as equals.

If I don't get, you sure seem to not get it as well!! This is where I said we'll agree to disagree. But if it makes you feel any better, I'll give you the pat on the back and the "atta boy" you're looking for if it'll make you feel better.

Yes, I see it as a ploy. I find the help being offered at this convenient time sinister. Where were they in 80s, 90s, and two years ago? How long has there been a PC government in Alberta, why now? You speak of equality but you're own statement of "their own people" and "someone stepping in" is divisive in itself? Aren't they Albertans? I would say you don't get it.

I'm far from the entitlement wagon. Everything that I have has been worked for and bought with money that I've earned, so your off track with that statement.
If you want the rent payments to stop then the tenant will have to change and that isn't likely to happen.

I was told years ago where to find sympathy, between _hit and syphilis in any Webster dictionary, so my posts are not about looking for sympathy, its to stand up to attitudes like yours. Been doing it my whole life in one form or another.

[brownbomber]

I can vouch that Kurt505 can find good in natives and had native friends growing up. We are the same age, and grew up mere houses apart and attended the same school(s). He like many of us is just fed right up....:)

Things must be way different in different areas. I think Kurt is something else but hey that's his date with destiny not mine. But back to to subject at hand things must be different farther north. In my area I see lots of interaction and integration. Not a whole lot of you're from here you should feel guilty that people like you abuse the system. People are people.
Finding good in natives? That's a interesting one. What does it take or how difficult is that? What's my debt ? No accent ? Cha. Pay a certain tax line? No criminal record? Hair short? What's it take to find the good? Sounds like a tough one.
Where I come from people are people. Doesn't matter where you're from. You can't change how you were born. Get at life like everybody else and nobody should judge or struggle to find the good. The good is there you just gotta look past the differences.

[Mb-MBR]

I can vouch that Kurt505 can find good in natives and had native friends growing up. We are the same age, and grew up mere houses apart and attended the same school(s). He like many of us is just fed right up....:)

Good to hear. You guys are fed up with where 3% of the federal budget goes and are perfectly fine with how the other 97% of the budget is spent. I'm sure if you would research how the other 97% is spent you might have other things to complain about and be fed up with but we're always the target of your resentment.

Indians do not have the government "Hand outs or entitlements" cornered. Every time we get into these debates, that's where the discussion goes.

[brownbomber]

Who are you trying to kid? You were not united in one Canada to begin with. If a Cree found a Blackfoot on his turf, there was a dead Blackfoot. I was on the Rez last weekend, there were two attendants watching the pumps so they wouldn't get robbed blind by the people on their own reserve. We were warned of a member of their own band counsel who was a crackhead who tried to charge people for fishing in the river by the reserve, not to pay him and to tell him to take a hike. I'm not making this up or exaggerating, this is how it is. If you think the corruption of chiefs and counsel will magically stop when things change, your sadly mistaken. How long did idle no more last?

I'm not saying aboriginals will be left wondering aimlessly, I'm saying they will not all unit as one and run Canada. Without the Canadian government acting as the glue that holds you together, personal greed will tear you apart and what will look good at first will be lost and ultimately you will be left as an equal to the white man. There will be a winner, but I don't believe it will be the team your cheering for. Of course this is solely my opinion and by no means a guaranteed outcome, but like Spider-mans uncle says, "with great power comes great responsibility", not all men can handle it, especially when they have no one to answer to.

This thread started out as a thread about the Alberta government stepping in to help the little buffalo in their time in need. Why did they do it? Because no one else would, not even their fellow aboriginal people, so the evil Alberta government and people of Alberta stepped in to help out. Maybe instead of suggesting they are getting off easy you should have commended their actions, but that would mean you would have to put your feelings of entitlement behind you.

Lots of places have pre pay gas after 6pm. Lots of politicos have substance abuse issues. Look at RF. He's still popular. I agree that one of the biggest FN issues is leadership.

[brownbomber]

Good to hear. You guys are fed up with where 3% of the federal budget goes and are perfectly fine with how the other 97% of the budget is spent. I'm sure if you would research how the other 97% is spent you might have other things to complain about and be fed up with but we're always the target of your resentment.

Indians do not have the government "Hand outs or entitlements" cornered. Every time we get into these debates, that's where the discussion goes.

Although FN unemployment is disgracefully high the majority do work but the sentiment is that most don't and those that do have had some kind of gvt appointment. Then some yahoo comes on and says horrible stuff and hey freedom to express right. I recall one guy telling me if I'm employed I must be something like a portion of a percentage that are. Hey that's okay. But I better reply to him politely or I'm getting out of hand. How dare we be confident.

[Kurt505]

Lots of places have pre pay gas after 6pm. Lots of politicos have substance abuse issues. Look at RF. He's still popular. I agree that one of the biggest FN issues is leadership.

It was pre pay, it wasn't the fact he was a crackhead, it was the fact he was trying to solicit money from the public under the guise of it going to the band, which is what the lady warned us about.

My date with destiny? I'm ok with it. It would be nice for once if I could convey the fact that all I want is equality for ALL Canadians without someone throwing in the racist card. I wish the aboriginal people could get back their traditional land, use it like anyone else for profit or personal pleasure, and all Canadians are painted with the same brush following the same laws but somehow some people see that as being racist. Whatever. I speak my mind, I call a spade a spade, maybe some people have a hard time hearing it.

If I can't call Canada my native land, I don't have one.

Btw Mb-mbr, I do complain about the way the other 97% is spent at times, you just happen to share my sentiments so there's no arguing between us.

[brownbomber]

It was pre pay, it wasn't the fact he was a crackhead, it was the fact he was trying to solicit money from the public under the guise of it going to the band, which is what the lady warned us about.

My date with destiny? I'm ok with it. It would be nice for once if I could convey the fact that all I want is equality for ALL Canadians without someone throwing in the racist card. I wish the aboriginal people could get back their traditional land, use it like anyone else for profit or personal pleasure, and all Canadians are painted with the same brush following the same laws but somehow some people see that as being racist. Whatever. I speak my mind, I call a spade a spade, maybe some people have a hard time hearing it.

If I can't call Canada my native land, I don't have one.


I have a hard time hearing it because you never have anything positive to say about FN. Hey I'm a tough critic too, it has to change, people have to change and attitudes have to change. I would love equality but sometimes a level playing field isn't so level, just like now. You can't possibly say we had the same opportunities in say the 60's or 70's. I wouldn't have got past a shovel in the patch no matter how industrious I was. Times change and things have gone the other direction. True equality is a lot more complicated than changing laws. Hearts and minds.

[Mb-MBR]

It was pre pay, it wasn't the fact he was a crackhead, it was the fact he was trying to solicit money from the public under the guise of it going to the band, which is what the lady warned us about.

My date with destiny? I'm ok with it. It would be nice for once if I could convey the fact that all I want is equality for ALL Canadians without someone throwing in the racist card. I wish the aboriginal people could get back their traditional land, use it like anyone else for profit or personal pleasure, and all Canadians are painted with the same brush following the same laws but somehow some people see that as being racist. Whatever. I speak my mind, I call a spade a spade, maybe some people have a hard time hearing it.

If I can't call Canada my native land, I don't have one.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.............I for one have never called you or anyone racist in any of the of these discussions on this forum. And I do not have an issue with you speaking your mind. I had family die in wars to allow that to happen along with a lot of other people from across this nation. Nor is it my desire to strip you or anyone else from your native land. After all, we do know the consequences of such actions because we've lived it.

In general, we are all governed by the same laws. With the exception of the hunting, fishing, trapping provisions contained within the NRTA, to which I know you have issues with. But even these can be altered if a species is in jeopardy.

I have no issue with you speaking your mind but please don't condemn me for speaking mine.

In closing, if we were equal or close to it we wouldn't have 1200 missing and murdered Aboriginal women go unnoticed for as long as they have. If that were another segment of society I GUARNTEE it would not have gone unattended to.

[Kurt505]

I have a hard time hearing it because you never have anything positive to say about FN. Hey I'm a tough critic too, it has to change, people have to change and attitudes have to change. I would love equality but sometimes a level playing field isn't so level, just like now. You can't possibly say we had the same opportunities in say the 60's or 70's. I wouldn't have got past a shovel in the patch no matter how industrious I was. Times change and things have gone the other direction. True equality is a lot more complicated than changing laws. Hearts and minds.

If there was a thread that came up about something positive a FN did, I would not hesitate to commend them on it. I never started out on this thread bashing anyone or any government, I said at least the Alberta government stepped in to help, but that's where the argument started.

Honestly, I'm not racist, nor do I have anything against FN people at all. I've spent a lot of time with aboriginal people and I know they're like anyone else. Like I said in my posts, the treaty is what bands you together to make you strong. No other Canadians have this strength and if the treaties were abolished and land was given back, you wouldn't have the bond of the treaty to give FN people strength that they have now, they would be equal in that regard to all other Canadians, acting in a more singular faction. It wouldn't be all roses as Mb-mbr thinks, that's all I'm pointing out.

[brownbomber]

I'm not treaty btw
I think there is still a sense of togetherness and commonality to a certain degree. I just sort of automatically like Carey price and dwight king if you know wage I mean.

[jakebrake]

Its time they get a job like everyone else and go get a mortgage and build their own dam house
we can not baby sit them for the rest of our lives its about time the fn take care of them selves.

[Mb-MBR]

If there was a thread that came up about something positive a FN did, I would not hesitate to commend them on it. I never started out on this thread bashing anyone or any government, I said at least the Alberta government stepped in to help, but that's where the argument started.

Honestly, I'm not racist, nor do I have anything against FN people at all. I've spent a lot of time with aboriginal people and I know they're like anyone else. Like I said in my posts, the treaty is what bands you together to make you strong. No other Canadians have this strength and if the treaties were abolished and land was given back, you wouldn't have the bond of the treaty to give FN people strength that they have now, they would be equal in that regard to all other Canadians, acting in a more singular faction. It wouldn't be all roses as Mb-mbr thinks, that's all I'm pointing out.

I accept the fact that you're not a racist nor would I ever label you one just by some banter on an outdoors forum. There might be other names I would use just like you would with me.

And I don't think I ever said it would all be "roses". I have no idea why there's this perception that we Indians are all the same and always agree!!!! Crap, I have major differences in my immediate family, is that wrong, no. Its just what it is. I forget which prim minister that stated.........."I just saved Canada a lot of money, I told the Indians to go away and come back with one voice". Can you imagine us telling Canadians that. The only thing they might agree on is doing away with the Indians!!!!

My point in all this is live up to the spirit and intent of the Treaty relationship that forged this country, let us rightfully benefit from the country, get the heck out of the way and watch us suffer and strive to improve our standing in this country.

[brownbomber]

Its time they get a job like everyone else and go get a mortgage and build their own dam house
we can not baby sit them for the rest of our lives its about time the fn take care of them selves.

Right on time :)

[ali#1]

Threads like this bring out the worst in some people.

The way I look at it is simple, I don't understand the complexities of the history of native culture. And I say if we made treaties we have to live up to them.

[elkhunter11]

The way I look at it is simple, I don't understand the complexities of the history of native culture. And I say if we made treaties we have to live up to them.

Have you ever read the text of any of the treaties.
Below is a link to one of the treaties. I suggest that you read it, and then tell us how the government has not lived up to the terms. Then look at the schools, universities, hospitals, running water electricity, and all of the other modern conveniences that the native people enjoy today, and tell us that the natives have not received much more than is specified in the treaties.

http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100028699/1100100028700

[avb3]

Have you ever read the text of any of the treaties.
Below is a link to one of the treaties. I suggest that you read it, and then tell us how the government has not lived up to the terms. Then look at the schools, universities, hospitals, running water electricity, and all of the other modern conveniences that the native people enjoy today, and tell us that the natives have not received much more than is specified in the treaties.

http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100028699/1100100028700

You have to read those in conjunction with the court cases that interpreted them. Much of those were based on oral testimony what natives were told what the treaties entailed.

[elkhunter11]

You have to read those in conjunction with the court cases that interpreted them. Much of those were based on oral testimony what natives were told what the treaties entailed.

The treaty that I supplied the link to was signed back in 1875 . Obviously, the people that actually signed that treaty were long gone by the time that the courts came up with their interpretations around a hundred years later, so any " oral testimony", was nothing more than hearsay. Unfortunately, our courts can be as political as our spineless governments can be, when this type of "interpretation", takes place.

[marxman]

You have to read those in conjunction with the court cases that interpreted them. Much of those were based on oral testimony what natives were told what the treaties entailed.

no you dont those court cases perverted the treaties into what we are dealing with today and the proof is the natives themselves who said the treaties were a ripoff and they didnt recognize them till the courts started going their way now the treaties are sacred

[Mb-MBR]

no you dont those court cases perverted the treaties into what we are dealing with today and the proof is the natives themselves who said the treaties were a ripoff and they didnt recognize them till the courts started going their way now the treaties are sacred

The spirit and intent of the Treaties has to be factored in, they have always been sacred. Ceremonies were held at the signing honouring the Treaties.

Its successive governments that have misrepresented themselves and have not lived up to them!!

[Mb-MBR]

Its time they get a job like everyone else and go get a mortgage and build their own dam house
we can not baby sit them for the rest of our lives its about time the fn take care of them selves.

We didn't make ourselves wards of the state, the government made us wards of the state. Maybe if we put you through that same experience for generations your tune would change.

I agree till we're given the opportunity to take care of ourselves this cycle will continue. When government is forced to recognize revenue sharing for this to occur we'll be on the right path.

[bison]

You can give every native in little buffalo a new house and 10 years down the road you can do it again cause they're all trashed again by then.
it ain't lack of money there,..they just waste it on the booze the drugs and the VLT's.
When the gubmint checks arrives they flock to town and go party.

[Buckhead]

I agree till we're given the opportunity to take care of ourselves this cycle will continue. When government is forced to recognize revenue sharing for this to occur we'll be on the right path.[/QUOTE]

Your people have the same opportunies as everyone else. Noone every got anywhere by sitting around sniveling about how they are being victimised.

Lots of people came to Canada with only the shirt on their back and made a life for themselves - others can do it, too.

Just takes a bit of ambition and gumption, which seems to be sadly lacking.

[elkhunter11]

The spirit and intent of the Treaties has to be factored in, they have always been sacred. Ceremonies were held at the signing honouring the Treaties.

As has been posted previously, neither you, nor myself were present at the signing of the treaties, so we can't know what the spirit, and intent of the treaties actually were. And since nobody that attended those treaties, is still alive well over 100 years later, all we have to go on, is the written text of the treaties, and hearsay. And we all know just how unreliable hearsay can be, especially when told from person to person, over several generations.

Lots of people came to Canada with only the shirt on their back and made a life for themselves - others can do it, too.

Just takes a bit of ambition and gumption, which seems to be sadly lacking.

The harder that you work for something, the more you appreciate it. However, when things are just given to someone, that didn't actually work for them, they are often neglected.

[jakebrake]

Yes the houses will be destroyed in 10 years because they have no respect for it they didn't work for it there is nothing stopping anyone one from buying a pair of work boots and lunch pail and getting off the couch and going to work laziness is the root of all evil.

[expmler]

We didn't make ourselves wards of the state, the government made us wards of the state. Maybe if we put you through that same experience for generations your tune would change.

I agree till we're given the opportunity to take care of ourselves this cycle will continue. When government is forced to recognize revenue sharing for this to occur we'll be on the right path.

What a load of crap. Your statement is exactly the reason the cycle continues and reserve Indians are in the position they are in.

There is nothing standing in the way of any able bodied native getting an education and going to work.

Make sure your kids are educated and instill a work ethic in them, instead of teaching them they are victims and they will all be better off.

[Mb-MBR]

What a load of crap. Your statement is exactly the reason the cycle continues and reserve Indians are in the position they are in.

There is nothing standing in the way of any able bodied native getting an education and going to work.

Make sure your kids are educated and instill a work ethic in them, instead of teaching them they are victims and they will all be better off.

Learn your history there chum.....you cant just take a look at todays situation and say get over it. I'm sure your ignorance knows no bounds as demonstrated by your comments.

Once you've done your history lesson, feel free to come back and offer an educated opinion...

[jakebrake]

I didn't know they are wards of the state and they are forbidden to work.all I can say is they really listen to the government a guy told me once he said what was the last thing Jesus
said to the natives before he left earth...don't do anything until I get back.

[Mb-MBR]

The treaty that I supplied the link to was signed back in 1875 . Obviously, the people that actually signed that treaty were long gone by the time that the courts came up with their interpretations around a hundred years later, so any " oral testimony", was nothing more than hearsay. Unfortunately, our courts can be as political as our spineless governments can be, when this type of "interpretation", takes place.

There is a lot of research contained in archives and in churches that was recorded to verify the Treaties as they were written was wrong. The "hearsay" you question has already been accepted by the Supreme Court of Canada, so it has validity in the highest court of this country.

[expmler]

Learn your history there chum.....you cant just take a look at todays situation and say get over it. I'm sure your ignorance knows no bounds as demonstrated by your comments.

Once you've done your history lesson, feel free to come back and offer an educated opinion...

You tell me, what prevents a native child from obtaining an education if his parents want one for him?

[elkhunter11]

There is a lot of research contained in archives and in churches that was recorded to verify the Treaties as they were written was wrong. The "hearsay" you question has already been accepted by the Supreme Court of Canada, so it has validity in the highest court of this country.

When politics become involved, even the supreme court comes to the conclusions that the government desires, whether they are based on the truth, or not. The decision overruling property rights as being provincial jurisdiction, so that the federal government could demand the registration of all firearms, is a classic example.
As for the archives in churches, I give no credibility to anything written by any religious group. If religion is in any way involved, so is corruption. Wasn't it the natives themselves that accused the churches of so many past wrongdoings, and coverups? But now that they have information that might favor the natives, they are all of a sudden trustworthy?

[Smokey]

You can give every native in little buffalo a new house and 10 years down the road you can do it again cause they're all trashed again by then.
it ain't lack of money there,..they just waste it on the booze the drugs and the VLT's.
When the gubmint checks arrives they flock to town and go party.

Troll much.

I was reading this thread to edumacate myself a bit, and came across something that I would of hoped will be removed from our society by now, apparantly not.

Funny how my next door neighbor, pureblood Blood Aboriginal who makes 300 grand with 2 houses, and the most amazing step father (to two kids their whife father has no contact with) is working as a Pipeline Inspector. Funny how that is. Must play those VLT's and sucking off the tit when no ones looking.

From what I heard his grandmother who by all acoounts enjoyed one of our residential schools and raised them, put up with nothing funny, and some of her kids and grandkids live on and off the reserve, but all apparantly all are solid then many white folk.

I thank God for my family, who never endured many abuses and had their lives destroyed, and then passed on some of their learned behavior. We all have to take responsibility for ourselves. I definitely agree at some point we must take responsibility for our actions and not continue the cycle. Easy to say tnat, but I have never walked in their shoes. When I read such statements I realize like most people prejudice is born outta ignorance. We don't to open the history books because all of sudden we all learn that we can't perpetuate the bs. We inflicted a genocide on people because we thought our religion, laws, and systems were better. We justify annexing their lands by believing our ways are better. We should be thankful all we gave was money, education, health, etc for all we did. The problem I see is trying to get aboriginals the opportunity to contribute and live in our society, granted I have no clue what that means

Their treaties are protected under the law and the way I look at is if you don't like too bad, won't change. I hope one day Aboriginal leaders say to their people like that one chief in BC says to his people, if your life sucks its because you suck. Takes leaders to change their people.

[avb3]

When politics become involved, even the supreme court comes to the conclusions that the government desires, whether they are based on the truth, or not. The decision overruling property rights as being provincial jurisdiction, so that the federal government could demand the registration of all firearms, is a classic example.
As for the archives in churches, I give no credibility to anything written by any religious group. If religion is in any way involved, so is corruption. Wasn't it the natives themselves that accused the churches of so many past wrongdoings, and coverups? But now that they have information that might favor the natives, they are all of a sudden trustworthy?

The reports of treaty commissioner Alexander Morris were a key part of why the courts ruled like they did.

History.... it's worth learning.

[Smokey]

You can give every native in little buffalo a new house and 10 years down the road you can do it again cause they're all trashed again by then.
it ain't lack of money there,..they just waste it on the booze the drugs and the VLT's.
When the gubmint checks arrives they flock to town and go party.

Troll much.

I was reading this thread to edumacate myself a bit, and came across something that I would of hoped will be removed from our society by now, apparantly not.

Funny how my next door neighbor, pureblood Blood Aboriginal who makes 300 grand with 2 houses, and the most amazing father (to two kids their whife father has no contact with) is working as a Pipeline Inspector. Funny how that is. Must play those VLT's and sucking off the tit when no ones looking.

From what I heard his grandmother who by all acoounts enjoyed one of our residential schools and raised them, put up with nothing funny, and some of her kids and grandkids live on and off the reserve, but all apparantly all are solid then many white folk.

I thank God for my family, who never endured many abuses and had their lives destroyed, and then passed on some of their learned behavior. We all have to take responsibility for ourselves. I definitely agree at some point we must take responsibility for our actions and not continue the cycle. Easy to say tnat, but I have never walmed in their shoes. When I read such statements I realize like most people prejudice is born outta ignorance. We don't to open the history books because all of sudden we all learn that we can't perpetuate the bs. We inflicted a genocide on people because we thought our religion, laws, and systems were better. We justify annexing their lands by believing our wais better. We should be thankful all we gave was money, education, health, etc for all we did. The problem I see is trying to get aboriginals the opportunity to contribute and live in our society, granted I have no clue what that means

Their treaties are protected under the law and the way I look at is if you don't like too bad, won't change. I hope one day Aboriginal leaders say to their people like that one chief in BC says to his people, if your life sucks its because you suck. Takes leaders to change their people.

[elkhunter11]

The reports of treaty commissioner Alexander Morris were a key part of why the courts ruled like they did.

History.... it's worth learning.

So if he felt that the wording of the treaties did not represent what was actually being agreed to by both parties, why did he not have it amended before it was signed? Since he died in 1889,we will never know. And seeing as how he was criticized at the time, for accumulating land at the expense of the Metis, perhaps he wasn't overly credible?

[Mb-MBR]

When politics become involved, even the supreme court comes to the conclusions that the government desires, whether they are based on the truth, or not. The decision overruling property rights as being provincial jurisdiction, so that the federal government could demand the registration of all firearms, is a classic example.
As for the archives in churches, I give no credibility to anything written by any religious group. If religion is in any way involved, so is corruption. Wasn't it the natives themselves that accused the churches of so many past wrongdoings, and coverups? But now that they have information that might favor the natives, they are all of a sudden trustworthy?

If you mean by wrongdoing using kids a s sex toys, yes they were accused and we're now finding the kids were telling the truth.

Most of Treaty negotiations were translated by priests because the churches had already had a presence in most of the areas. Some Treaties are even witnessed by local priests, so research and history will agree with you.

[expmler]

Troll much.

I was reading this thread to edumacate myself a bit, and came across something that I would of hoped will be removed from our society by now, apparantly not.

Funny how my next door neighbor, pureblood Blood Aboriginal who makes 300 grand with 2 houses, and the most amazing father (to two kids their whife father has no contact with) is working as a Pipeline Inspector. Funny how that is. Must play those VLT's and sucking off the tit when no ones looking.

From what I heard his grandmother who by all acoounts enjoyed one of our residential schools and raised them, put up with nothing funny, and some of her kids and grandkids live on and off the reserve, but all apparantly all are solid then many white folk.

I thank God for my family, who never endured many abuses and had their lives destroyed, and then passed on some of their learned behavior. We all have to take responsibility for ourselves. I definitely agree at some point we must take responsibility for our actions and not continue the cycle. Easy to say tnat, but I have never walmed in their shoes. When I read such statements I realize like most people prejudice is born outta ignorance. We don't to open the history books because all of sudden we all learn that we can't perpetuate the bs. We inflicted a genocide on people because we thought our religion, laws, and systems were better. We justify annexing their lands by believing our wais better. We should be thankful all we gave was money, education, health, etc for all we did. The problem I see is trying to get aboriginals the opportunity to contribute and live in our society, granted I have no clue what that means

Their treaties are protected under the law and the way I look at is if you don't like too bad, won't change. I hope one day Aboriginal leaders say to their people like that one chief in BC says to his people, if your life sucks its because you suck. Takes leaders to change their people.

You and bison are in agreement, you just don't realize it.

He is not talking about your neighbor or any other self sufficient native person.

He is talking about the ones that choose the poor lifestyle and complain to the gov't that they have nothing.

I am sure your neighbor is not demanding a house from the gov't. the difference between him and the ones who have nothing is the way they run their lives.

[Mb-MBR]

Troll much.

I was reading this thread to edumacate myself a bit, and came across something that I would of hoped will be removed from our society by now, apparantly not.

Funny how my next door neighbor, pureblood Blood Aboriginal who makes 300 grand with 2 houses, and the most amazing father (to two kids their whife father has no contact with) is working as a Pipeline Inspector. Funny how that is. Must play those VLT's and sucking off the tit when no ones looking.

From what I heard his grandmother who by all acoounts enjoyed one of our residential schools and raised them, put up with nothing funny, and some of her kids and grandkids live on and off the reserve, but all apparantly all are solid then many white folk.

I thank God for my family, who never endured many abuses and had their lives destroyed, and then passed on some of their learned behavior. We all have to take responsibility for ourselves. I definitely agree at some point we must take responsibility for our actions and not continue the cycle. Easy to say tnat, but I have never walmed in their shoes. When I read such statements I realize like most people prejudice is born outta ignorance. We don't to open the history books because all of sudden we all learn that we can't perpetuate the bs. We inflicted a genocide on people because we thought our religion, laws, and systems were better. We justify annexing their lands by believing our wais better. We should be thankful all we gave was money, education, health, etc for all we did. The problem I see is trying to get aboriginals the opportunity to contribute and live in our society, granted I have no clue what that means

Their treaties are protected under the law and the way I look at is if you don't like too bad, won't change. I hope one day Aboriginal leaders say to their people like that one chief in BC says to his people, if your life sucks its because you suck. Takes leaders to change their people.

I cannot disagree.........if I were asked what I would want back I would state family, gives us our families back. People have no idea how family structures were ruined by the assimilation policies of church and state, no idea.

[elkhunter11]

If you mean by wrongdoing using kids a s sex toys, yes they were accused and we're now finding the kids were telling the truth.

Most of Treaty negotiations were translated by priests because the churches had already had a presence in most of the areas. Some Treaties are even witnessed by local priests, so research and history will agree with you.

Exactly my point, yet because the documents that you refer to, that were translated by the priests, and that were stored in churches, aided the natives case, you consider those documents to be credible?:rolleye2:

I cannot disagree.........if I were asked what I would want back I would state family, gives us our families back. People have no idea how family structures were ruined by the assimilation policies of church and state, no idea.

But since it is impossible to give back those families, you want cash instead ?:thinking-006:

[norwestalta]

I didn't know they are wards of the state and they are forbidden to work.all I can say is they really listen to the government a guy told me once he said what was the last thing Jesus
said to the natives before he left earth...don't do anything until I get back.

Lol

[YeeHaw]

Give them the opportunity to go trapping so they have skins, ( wait they got that), and the ambition to go cut some poles (preferably using traditional tools), and tell them to make their housing the way their ancestors did. :sign0176:

[expmler]

Give them the opportunity to go trapping so they have skins, ( wait they got that), and the ambition to go cut some poles (preferably using traditional tools), and tell them to make their housing the way their ancestors did. :sign0176:

Most of them would need Google for instructions.

[avb3]

Its a damn good thing that our natives aren't Muslim, because then some of you could really pile on em.

[norwestalta]

Its a damn good thing that our natives aren't Muslim, because then some of you could really pile on em.

I think you might be reading this wrong. Seems to me that most people in Canada have no objection to colour, race or religion providing that they contribute to society in a positive way. It's the takers that are the fly in the ointment. It's a shame when a working man can't get ahead while some other able bodied individuals think the are owed a living on his back.

[avb3]

I think you might be reading this wrong. Seems to me that most people in Canada have no objection to colour, race or religion providing that they contribute to society in a positive way. It's the takers that are the fly in the ointment. It's a shame when a working man can't get ahead while some other able bodied individuals think the are owed a living on his back.

Have you read some of the responses in here?

Natives, especially those on reserves have some serious problems, often as a result of corruption at their leadership level. I have been on many reserves, and I know there are many I would not want to live on.

Do some residents there fit stereotypes. Yup, just like some people in trailer parks fit those stereotypes.

I've know natives who grew up on the reserve, had a bad family situation, and done well once they got off it. Do you think that is easy? Your entire social network is gone, and any support you had is also gone.

Yeah, there are issues, and I have issues with some of the interpretations of the treaties, but I also realize that there is more to them than just what is written. I don't like all of the court decisions, but they are there, and now we as a country have to make those work.

I remember being in one meeting with a number of band leaders. There was a lot of grousing about the constitution and the courts and the treaties. I'll never forget one chief, when it was his turn to talk, simple said, "There is not much we at this table can do about the constitution or the treaties or the court decisions, so let's talk about something we can actually do something about."

That is the type of attitude that advances issues, not complaining about something that we can't change.

[Kurt505]

I accept the fact that you're not a racist nor would I ever label you one just by some banter on an outdoors forum. There might be other names I would use just like you would with me.

And I don't think I ever said it would all be "roses". I have no idea why there's this perception that we Indians are all the same and always agree!!!! Crap, I have major differences in my immediate family, is that wrong, no. Its just what it is. I forget which prim minister that stated.........."I just saved Canada a lot of money, I told the Indians to go away and come back with one voice". Can you imagine us telling Canadians that. The only thing they might agree on is doing away with the Indians!!!!

My point in all this is live up to the spirit and intent of the Treaty relationship that forged this country, let us rightfully benefit from the country, get the heck out of the way and watch us suffer and strive to improve our standing in this country.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you want to see the best man you can get, make him work for all he has. The best thing that could ever happen to the FN people is they get title to their land to do with as they please, just like anyone else. I honestly believe a lot of the issues they are having today would sort themselves out. Take away the crutches, watch them walk, then run. It's human nature to survive, accomplishment is infectious.

[purgatory.sv]

Have you read some of the responses in here?

Natives, especially those on reserves have some serious problems, often as a result of corruption at their leadership level. I have been on many reserves, and I know there are many I would not want to live on.

Do some residents there fit stereotypes. Yup, just like some people in trailer parks fit those stereotypes.

I've know natives who grew up on the reserve, had a bad family situation, and done well once they got off it. Do you think that is easy? Your entire social network is gone, and any support you had is also gone.

Yeah, there are issues, and I have issues with some of the interpretations of the treaties, but I also realize that there is more to them than just what is written. I don't like all of the court decisions, but they are there, and now we as a country have to make those work.

I remember being in one meeting with a number of band leaders. There was a lot of grousing about the constitution and the courts and the treaties. I'll never forget one chief, when it was his turn to talk, simple said, "There is not much we at this table can do about the constitution or the treaties or the court decisions, so let's talk about something we can actually do something about."

That is the type of attitude that advances issues, not complaining about something that we can't change.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you want to see the best man you can get, make him work for all he has. The best thing that could ever happen to the FN people is they get title to their land to do with as they please, just like anyone else. I honestly believe a lot of the issues they are having today would sort themselves out. Take away the crutches, watch them walk, then run. It's human nature to survive, accomplishment is infectious.


As an individual or a politician some interesting views.

[brownbomber]

Have you read some of the responses in here?

Natives, especially those on reserves have some serious problems, often as a result of corruption at their leadership level. I have been on many reserves, and I know there are many I would not want to live on.

Do some residents there fit stereotypes. Yup, just like some people in trailer parks fit those stereotypes.

I've know natives who grew up on the reserve, had a bad family situation, and done well once they got off it. Do you think that is easy? Your entire social network is gone, and any support you had is also gone.

Yeah, there are issues, and I have issues with some of the interpretations of the treaties, but I also realize that there is more to them than just what is written. I don't like all of the court decisions, but they are there, and now we as a country have to make those work.

I remember being in one meeting with a number of band leaders. There was a lot of grousing about the constitution and the courts and the treaties. I'll never forget one chief, when it was his turn to talk, simple said, "There is not much we at this table can do about the constitution or the treaties or the court decisions, so let's talk about something we can actually do something about."

That is the type of attitude that advances issues, not complaining about something that we can't change.

Agree
The whole INAC thing is very patronizing. Just a little hand my brown children and you will be fine. Don't you just need some help to succeed?? No you don't. You need to take charge of your own life. Financial freedom is true freedom.
I played slowpitch tonight and 14 players 7 are of some FN ancestry treaty or métis. Jobs include pumper, fluid hauler, coil tubing, ticket auditor, accts receivable, journeyman carpenter, HD mechanic, guess which side of the team does that?
Until everybody buys in we are destined to fail. Get a job that isn't for a govt body and you will flourish. The leaders don't want people thinking for themselves and being financially independent they want sheep they control, they want people to rely on them not themselves. How do you stay in power? Make people need you.

[elkhunter11]

Natives, especially those on reserves have some serious problems, often as a result of corruption at their leadership level. I have been on many reserves, and I know there are many I would not want to live on.

Exactly, corruption due to their leadership. I have been on several reserves, and it isn't hard to determine where the chief, lives. Whose fault is it that the chief that the band elects takes advantage of his own people? Yet it seems easier to blame the government, than to blame their own chief, for the situation that they find themselves in.

[rwm1273]

Alberta is spending 5.6 million on housing for houses in Little Buffalo.

http://www2.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=88ca913e-52af-452e-923e-4e80b02afe24

That is the FN that has not adhered itself to Treaty 8, and is the only FN in Alberta not under treaty. Regardless, it is subject to the Indian Act.

The Alberta minister acknowledges that it is the federal responsibility, but conditions are such that action is needed now.

I know there is only one taxpayer, but I don't get why Alberta has taken this step. Why should only Albertan's be paying for this?

This is not a thread to argue about treaty rights, hunting, etc. (although I bet it will deteriorate to that). It is simply one to discuss why the heck is Alberta paying for something the feds should.

In my opinion, we need to ensure our population is well housed, or the problems grow. I don't care if it is the Federal Government's responsibility, we have a moral responsibility to ensure nobody falls through the cracks.

We could always just bill the Feds after, and wait for the payment to come.

[rwm1273]

Exactly, corruption due to their leadership. I have been on several reserves, and it isn't hard to determine where the chief, lives. Whose fault is it that the chief that the band elects takes advantage of his own people? Yet it seems easier to blame the government, than to blame their own chief, for the situation that they find themselves in.

I too have seen this many times, and it is a serious problem with our reserves. And one we won't be able to fix unless they as a group want it fixed.

[CanuckShooter]

You tell me, what prevents a native child from obtaining an education if his parents want one for him?

An education system full of prejudice, for one.

I can remember being an A student, until my mother went to a parent/teacher event. Amazing how after that it was all D & C- on those report cards, until I changed schools, and then right back to A report cards again. That was back in the 60s, but really has it changed?

We fostered for years in the 80s, primarily native kids, and almost every one of them was referred for assisted learning. [more money for school??]

[Speckler]

To help them we must stop giving them money they haven't earned. The no more land claims. They keep what they have and will have respect because they must now create their own prosperity.

[Kurt505]

An education system full of prejudice, for one.

I can remember being an A student, until my mother went to a parent/teacher event. Amazing how after that it was all D & C- on those report cards, until I changed schools, and then right back to A report cards again. That was back in the 60s, but really has it changed?

We fostered for years in the 80s, primarily native kids, and almost every one of them was referred for assisted learning. [more money for school??]


C'mon, I know a couple native dentists, a native solicitor general, and a few native engineers. This isn't 1950's America, anyone in Canada who wants an education, especially when it's free can have one. It's too easy to blame the system, truth is, if you want it, you can have it.

There are lots of people who want an education but can't afford one without working two or three jobs, but they do it because they want a better life for themselves.

[brownbomber]

C'mon, I know a couple native dentists, a native solicitor general, and a few native engineers. This isn't 1950's America, anyone in Canada who wants an education, especially when it's free can have one. It's too easy to blame the system, truth is, if you want it, you can have it.

There are lots of people who want an education but can't afford one without working two or three jobs, but they do it because they want a better life for themselves.

I think we all know you can accomplish anything you set your mind to. Just sometimes as a native parent you have to remind teachers that your kid won't be a after thought in the back of the class and yes indeed you aren't going to marginalized or your kid steered in the wrong direction. I don't even want to call that the "r" word. Some people just have really strong preconceived ideas about people. I mean my kid ends up with academic award after start of school speech regarding special status, sorry dude not happening I took physics and calculus in high school and was in engineering at u of a the odds of my kid not being smart are pretty low. Changing minds one step at a time. :)

[Kurt505]

I think we all know you can accomplish anything you set your mind to. Just sometimes as a native parent you have to remind teachers that your kid won't be a after thought in the back of the class and yes indeed you aren't going to marginalized or your kid steered in the wrong direction. I don't even want to call that the "r" word. Some people just have really strong preconceived ideas about people. I mean my kid ends up with academic award after start of school speech regarding special status, sorry dude not happening I took physics and calculus in high school and was in engineering at u of a the odds of my kid not being smart are pretty low. Changing minds one step at a time. :)

I can only speak from a white mans perspective with a child that's white, but where we live the school populations are extremely diverse as far as race is concerned. I'm not sure it's possible for a teacher to favor one race or another. Lord knows my son wasn't one of the teachers top choice for a pet last year, as I'm sure both him and the teacher still have bruises on their foreheads from butting them all year long.

Years ago it may have been more difficult as a native to fit in the education system, but I know for fact that it was totally possible to get well educated. Nowadays with Canada's ethnic diversity, race, religion, sexual preference all have absolutely no bearing on ones chances at an education. The biggest factor now is funds.

[pickrel pat]

Nowadays, life is what a person chooses to make of it.

[Red Bullets]

Exactly, corruption due to their leadership. I have been on several reserves, and it isn't hard to determine where the chief, lives. Whose fault is it that the chief that the band elects takes advantage of his own people? Yet it seems easier to blame the government, than to blame their own chief, for the situation that they find themselves in.


Corruption in leadership?... You mean sort of like most modern societies, including the Canadian society.

[Sneeze]

Typical.

5 pages of people discussing the best ways to spend my money.

If you believe in a saddle for everyone's Unicorn - get out your own cheque book.

[silverdoctor]

Natives, especially those on reserves have some serious problems, often as a result of corruption at their leadership level. I have been on many reserves, and I know there are many I would not want to live on.

Do some residents there fit stereotypes. Yup, just like some people in trailer parks fit those stereotypes.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Get force fed that you're hard done by from the cradle and one will believe it.


Look at the idle no more protests, Canadians in general looked upon it as just another native uprising looking for more. The message was lost before it got out of the gate due chiefs, lawyers, government, police and whoever - as usual it turned into a cluster youknowwhat. The message was about Harpers omnibus bill and stripping environmental protections off lakes and rivers in Canada - an issue that all Canadians should be aware of - but very few are now as a result.


I could have status, lots of Mi'kmaq in my family, can be traced to beothuk and algonquin - but I don't want status. My family on my fathers side is upset with me for not signing the papers. I look in the mirror, I see a white man.

Why don't I sign? I don't deny my heritage, i'm proud of it actually - but the numbers that are signing up are in it for the freebies. Think a quarter of the NFLD population has tried to get status - or better. That's upsetting. Growing up in Newfie, people tried to hide the idea that they were native, call someone an indian wether joking or not - and it was scrap on. Today, families are researching their family tree looking for native blood so they can get status.


It's not just natives in this country with their hands out looking for freebies, there's people of all races, religions and creeds doing it.


We should all take a page from the natives willingness to protest - but Canadians standing up in protest to protect rights, freedoms and liberties? Not in my lifetime.

[avb3]

Nowadays, life is what a person chooses to make of it.

Tell that to the people in Iraq that are forced by ISIS to their version of sharia law.

Yup, choices are there. Sometimes they are very, very hard to execute.

Tell me how a young band member from a northern reserve, with less than a high school education, can make it coming to the big city.

No social infrastructure.

No family support.

No job, at least at first.

No home.

Little money to last him/her.

I'm not discounting that some can make it , but man, what a tough row to hoe.

[expmler]

I think we all know you can accomplish anything you set your mind to. Just sometimes as a native parent you have to remind teachers that your kid won't be a after thought in the back of the class and yes indeed you aren't going to marginalized or your kid steered in the wrong direction. I don't even want to call that the "r" word. Some people just have really strong preconceived ideas about people. I mean my kid ends up with academic award after start of school speech regarding special status, sorry dude not happening I took physics and calculus in high school and was in engineering at u of a the odds of my kid not being smart are pretty low. Changing minds one step at a time. :)

Congratulations, you are doing what every other responsible parent would do to ensure their kids get a good education.

All I am saying is if all natives had the same attitude, their kids would all be better off. It seems like there is a good percentage that instead of acting in the interest of their child they would rather instill in them that their failure is the white mans fault. Thus dooming them to continue the cycle.

There are a lot of native mindsets that need to be changed also.

[silverdoctor]

Congratulations, you are doing what every other responsible parent would do to ensure their kids get a good education.

All I am saying is if all natives had the same attitude, their kids would all be better off. It seems like there is a good percentage that instead of acting in the interest of their child they would rather instill in them that their failure is the white mans fault. Thus dooming them to continue the cycle.

There are a lot of native mindsets that need to be changed also.

I don't know if I can count the number of parents I know personally that gave their kids everything - but now have a 20 year old sitting on the couch looking for support. We've had threads on AO from people asking "how do I get rid of my kid, he/she doesn't want to move out".

It's not just a native problem.

[dodger]

Agree
The whole INAC thing is very patronizing. Just a little hand my brown children and you will be fine. Don't you just need some help to succeed?? No you don't. You need to take charge of your own life. Financial freedom is true freedom.
I played slowpitch tonight and 14 players 7 are of some FN ancestry treaty or métis. Jobs include pumper, fluid hauler, coil tubing, ticket auditor, accts receivable, journeyman carpenter, HD mechanic, guess which side of the team does that?
Until everybody buys in we are destined to fail. Get a job that isn't for a govt body and you will flourish. The leaders don't want people thinking for themselves and being financially independent they want sheep they control, they want people to rely on them not themselves. How do you stay in power? Make people need you.


Just reading this thread and came to this comment from brownbomber. Best post yet and a tip of the hat to you sir!

Dodger.

[expmler]

I don't know if I can count the number of parents I know personally that gave their kids everything - but now have a 20 year old sitting on the couch looking for support. We've had threads on AO from people asking "how do I get rid of my kid, he/she doesn't want to move out".

It's not just a native problem.

100% agree, but this thread is about natives problems.

Start a thread about welfare queens, trailer trash, or the young entitled crowd and we can discuss that.

[expmler]

Tell that to the people in Iraq that are forced by ISIS to their version of sharia law.

Yup, choices are there. Sometimes they are very, very hard to execute.

Tell me how a young band member from a northern reserve, with less than a high school education, can make it coming to the big city.

No social infrastructure.

No family support.

No job, at least at first.

No home.


Little money to last him/her.

I'm not discounting that some can make it , but man, what a tough row to hoe.

How does an immigrant from the Philippines make it.

[brownbomber]

How is it that every FN thread goes down this road. People just accept that it's okay to make wide sweeping condemnations like "why don't they all just get a job" really well most are employed or the Jesus joke. How about if that was a thread saying all who hunt poach? Can't do that can you. There a nugget of truth in every stereotype that's why there are stereotypes but so many people break the molds don't they. The archaic way of thinking is so strange to me. Some just don't get it that people are people. I guess it's okay to bash away on here. Not saying there wasn't so some legit viewpoints and concerns brought forward, there was some good respectful healthy debate. But the indifference to that crap just boggles me. The funny thing is that if this was a campfire and not the internet there would be a lot of crickets out there.

[Kurt505]

How is it that every FN thread goes down this road. People just accept that it's okay to make wide sweeping condemnations like "why don't they all just get a job" really well most are employed or the Jesus joke. How about if that was a thread saying all who hunt poach? Can't do that can you. There a nugget of truth in every stereotype that's why there are stereotypes but so many people break the molds don't they. The archaic way of thinking is so strange to me. Some just don't get it that people are people. I guess it's okay to bash away on here. Not saying there wasn't so some legit viewpoints and concerns brought forward, there was some good respectful healthy debate. But the indifference to that crap just boggles me. The funny thing is that if this was a campfire and not the internet there would be a lot of crickets out there.

Believe it or not, I agree.

[ali#1]

How is it that every FN thread goes down this road. People just accept that it's okay to make wide sweeping condemnations like "why don't they all just get a job" really well most are employed or the Jesus joke. How about if that was a thread saying all who hunt poach? Can't do that can you. There a nugget of truth in every stereotype that's why there are stereotypes but so many people break the molds don't they. The archaic way of thinking is so strange to me. Some just don't get it that people are people. I guess it's okay to bash away on here. Not saying there wasn't so some legit viewpoints and concerns brought forward, there was some good respectful healthy debate. But the indifference to that crap just boggles me. The funny thing is that if this was a campfire and not the internet there would be a lot of crickets out there.

Agreed.

[pickrel pat]

Tell that to the people in Iraq that are forced by ISIS to their version of sharia law.

Yup, choices are there. Sometimes they are very, very hard to execute.

Tell me how a young band member from a northern reserve, with less than a high school education, can make it coming to the big city.

No social infrastructure.

No family support.

No job, at least at first.

No home.

Little money to last him/her.

I'm not discounting that some can make it , but man, what a tough row to hoe.

im sorry, I was unaware this thread was about native Canadians living in the middle east......:thinking-006::thinking-006:....... ok, back on topic at hand....

[pickrel pat]

almost every single person living in Canada has the potential to succeed. Its all about CHOICES......make the right choices.....succeed.....make poor choices......more than likely fail. Don't matter what race you are. Its that simple nowadays.

[ali#1]

almost every single person living in Canada has the potential to succeed. Its all about CHOICES......make the right choices.....succeed.....make poor choices......more than likely fail. Don't matter what race you are. Its that simple nowadays.

When you culture is destroyed an everything is taken from you it's not so easy to have the social structure to have the potential, everybody looks at life from their own bubble.

[Deo101]

If you're wondering how a FN member can possibly obtain an education take a look here.... www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100033601/1100100033605

The way I see it (not talking about the hard working FN's people here) entitlement comes from receiving hand outs. You could take any culture in the history of the earth, give them what Canada has given the FN's and you'd be in the same boat. It blows my mind that they continuously bite the hand that feeds. Sooner or later the rest of the Canadian citizens will have had enough and, rightfully so, will be left to work for their money.

Honestly I don't feel the least bit responsible for what some Canadians ancestors did over a 100 years ago. Nor would any others that immigrated here generations after the fact. We are all here, now, and should be making the most of this great Country. Unfortunately the reserves are a "black eye" and will remain so until they are cut off.

Does anyone have any links to Housing History in Alberta?....maybe I'm off here but wasn't the housing in Brocket, Hobema etc basically given to them? Take a look at the condition of these late 80's to early 90s homes and you'll see what entitlement does........

[Mb-MBR]

How does an immigrant from the Philippines make it.

By escaping their country....

[Mb-MBR]

You tell me, what prevents a native child from obtaining an education if his parents want one for him?

What prevents a "native child" from getting an education in my opinion is the destruction of the family structure that has occurred for generations. One tends to be a by product of their environment and if that environment has been greatly affected the results will trickle on down to the next generation.

[bison]

How does an immigrant from the Philippines make it...Philippino's come here to work hard to make money to support their family back in the Philippines and make a nest egg for themselves before moving back home.

They ain't lazy and whining like a lot of the Natives on the reserves.
Natives can have it better than ordinary Canadians if they would just smarten up.

[Mb-MBR]

Exactly my point, yet because the documents that you refer to, that were translated by the priests, and that were stored in churches, aided the natives case, you consider those documents to be credible?:rolleye2:



But since it is impossible to give back those families, you want cash instead ?:thinking-006:

Just our family structures, that's all. keep the land, keep the rights, keep the resources, just give us our family structures back. I would think if policies and legislation were created to destroy a people, they could create similar policies and legislations to reverse the trend.

If the church and state in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s were so concerned about our education and allowed the kids to retains their culture, language and identity and not use our kids as slaves and sex objects, the outcome would have been quite different. Instead, their intent was to "destroy the Indian in the child" ...............these words are contained in numerous federal government letters as well as letters to and from various churches.

[Mb-MBR]

Give them the opportunity to go trapping so they have skins, ( wait they got that), and the ambition to go cut some poles (preferably using traditional tools), and tell them to make their housing the way their ancestors did. :sign0176:

As long as you go back to the axe, sweet saw, hand pick and sickle the way your ancestors did as well...:snapoutofit:

[Mb-MBR]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you want to see the best man you can get, make him work for all he has. The best thing that could ever happen to the FN people is they get title to their land to do with as they please, just like anyone else. I honestly believe a lot of the issues they are having today would sort themselves out. Take away the crutches, watch them walk, then run. It's human nature to survive, accomplishment is infectious.

The old adage of giving a man a fish you feed him for a day or teach a man to fish you feed him for life. That cycle needs to be broken somehow either by intervention or some other forum.

My argument to all of this is some folks need more help than others and by help I don't mean freebies. Every person, doesn't matter what culture you are from needs to feel some self worth. A lot of Indians have had that stripped from them for generations that has had a huge negative impact to their existence.

[Mb-MBR]

Exactly, corruption due to their leadership. I have been on several reserves, and it isn't hard to determine where the chief, lives. Whose fault is it that the chief that the band elects takes advantage of his own people? Yet it seems easier to blame the government, than to blame their own chief, for the situation that they find themselves in.

Blame the Indian Act and its agents. When the Indian Act was introduced it created a Chief and Council system accountable to the Indian Agent and not the voters.

[YeeHaw]

As long as you go back to the axe, sweet saw, hand pick and sickle the way your ancestors did as well...:snapoutofit:

Why is it that alot of natives wine and cry about how their traditional ways are being lost, yet are doing nothing to preserve the old ways.reserves are going rampid with drugs and alcohol abuse,and say that everybody else is the cause of there problem. How can they blame you or me personally for taking their land, resorces, animals or way of life? If i personally took it from them then I should have to pay, but otherwise why should every hard working man or woman, or native working off the reserve that is barely making it in life have to pay for others mistakes? :mad0100:

[expmler]

By escaping their country....

And coming to this country with nothing but a good work ethic and a desire to improve their position in life.

Natives that can't prosper here are free to leave and go to another country.

I'll bet they don't do as well as the Philippine immigrants do here.

[Mb-MBR]

Why is it that alot of natives wine and cry about how their traditional ways are being lost, yet are doing nothing to preserve the old ways.reserves are going rampid with drugs and alcohol abuse,and say that everybody else is the cause of there problem. How can they blame you or me personally for taking their land, resorces, animals or way of life? If i personally took it from them then I should have to pay, but otherwise why should every hard working man or woman, or native working off the reserve that is barely making it in life have to pay for others mistakes? :mad0100:

You get what you sow, that's what a farmer will tell you. You're represented by the government.

Again all of this focus on 3% of the federal budget. Look for other examples of government spending to see where the other 97% of the budget goes.

[expmler]

The old adage of giving a man a fish you feed him for a day or teach a man to fish you feed him for life. That cycle needs to be broken somehow either by intervention or some other forum.

My argument to all of this is some folks need more help than others and by help I don't mean freebies. Every person, doesn't matter what culture you are from needs to feel some self worth. A lot of Indians have had that stripped from them for generations that has had a huge negative impact to their existence.

Self worth comes from accomplishment. Wallowing in perceived wrongs of the past accomplishes nothing.

[unclebuck]

The old "Seemore & Dolittle" routine. They see all of the perceived wrongs, squeel like hell about their perceptions, and don't have the desire to do anything about it!!! I do discount you Mb-MBR, Brown Bomber, and Big Bore. Obviously with your upbringings, you have seen what could to be done to improve your lot, and you have followed through, and have done what was required. More power to you!!!!

[Mb-MBR]

Self worth comes from accomplishment. Wallowing in perceived wrongs of the past accomplishes nothing.

Neither does allowing the perpetrators to walk away and not atone for their wrong doings!!!!!

[ali#1]

It's 5.6 million. Probably less than Redford was planning on pay for that penthouse suite. I'm sure the Feds will square up with Alberta sometime.

[claystone]

Countless millions squandered by the Governments of this country, I for one am happy to see people in need receiving something. Maybe the homes won't last forever, maybe a lack of infrastructure will speed it along but at least some kids will have something positive in their lives, a HOME.

[Buckhead]

Neither does allowing the perpetrators to walk away and not atone for their wrong doings!!!!!

I can sympathise with things that happened in the past.

However, you seem like a very intelligent person. What was done - cannot be undone.

We can only try and move forward as one Canada and one people.

[Kurt505]

Countless millions squandered by the Governments of this country, I for one am happy to see people in need receiving something. Maybe the homes won't last forever, maybe a lack of infrastructure will speed it along but at least some kids will have something positive in their lives, a HOME.

Exactly! And then to have somebody scoff about it is kind of insulting. When I was young our house got flooded out and then a couple years later our farm got flooded out guess how much the government gave us? If you guessed nothing you're right. If we seen any money from that it would have been greatly appreciated, not taken with one hand while mumbling under my breath.

Thankfully I'm sure the people of little buffalo don't feel the same way as some members on the forum do.

[pickrel pat]

Neither does allowing the perpetrators to walk away and not atone for their wrong doings!!!!!

They are dead now. I say dig em up and @@@@h slap em!!

[expmler]

Neither does allowing the perpetrators to walk away and not atone for their wrong doings!!!!!

Like has been said, it comes down to a choice. You can choose to play the victim and live in squalor or you can choose to make a good life for yourself and family despite past wrongs perceived or real.

As a native that has chosen the latter you are not doing these "victims" any favors by making excuses for them.

Natives like you should be demanding more of your reserve brothers and encouraging them to follow your example.

[elkhunter11]

Blame the Indian Act and its agents. When the Indian Act was introduced it created a Chief and Council system accountable to the Indian Agent and not the voters.

So who votes for the chief? Is it not the native band members?

[Mb-MBR]

I can sympathise with things that happened in the past.

However, you seem like a very intelligent person. What was done - cannot be undone.

We can only try and move forward as one Canada and one people.

Trust me, I understand that. Its so very convenient to use that phrase but if we were to use that phrase in all aspects of life, why would we need a justice system or law enforcement of any type????

[Mb-MBR]

They are dead now. I say dig em up and @@@@h slap em!!

Their government lives on and still alive and functioning!! You seem to conveniently forget they were acting on behalf of the crown.:snapoutofit:

[Mb-MBR]

So who votes for the chief? Is it not the native band members?

Band members but the Indian created an Indian Agent Chief reporting relationship, so as long as the chief got along with the Indian Agent, all was well at the hierarchy.

[hal53]

Band members but the Indian created an Indian Agent Chief reporting relationship, so as long as the chief got along with the Indian Agent, all was well at the hierarchy.
Ahhh...so it is once again the white guys fault that the Chiefs are crooks........

[pickrel pat]

Their government lives on and still alive and functioning!! You seem to conveniently forget they were acting on behalf of the crown.:snapoutofit:

:thinking-006::sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Mb-MBR]

Like has been said, it comes down to a choice. You can choose to play the victim and live in squalor or you can choose to make a good life for yourself and family despite past wrongs perceived or real.

As a native that has chosen the latter you are not doing these "victims" any favors by making excuses for them.

Natives like you should be demanding more of your reserve brothers and encouraging them to follow your example.

Oh trust me, I am very demanding of my immediate family and sphere of influence I think I may have. Spent countless hours talking to our youth about the empowerment of education, trained numerous young people in my lifetime and continue to fight what I call the "good fight".

This thread started with the Alberta government spending 5.6 million for housing in Little Buffalo and someone wanting a pat on the back for their actions. I questioned the motives. If the Alberta government was sincere, why didn't they step in and help in the 60s, 70s, 80s or the 90s or even two months ago. They conveniently `step up` one week after a land mark ruling from the SCC that finally acknowledged Title in non Treaty areas.

My observation was and remains Little Buffalo would be silly to try and negotiate a Treaty now after all these years and hope they don't get bought off by a measly 5.6m housing grant!!!!

[marxman]

Oh trust me, I am very demanding of my immediate family and sphere of influence I think I may have. Spent countless hours talking to our youth about the empowerment of education, trained numerous young people in my lifetime and continue to fight what I call the "good fight".

This thread started with the Alberta government spending 5.6 million for housing in Little Buffalo and someone wanting a pat on the back for their actions. I questioned the motives. If the Alberta government was sincere, why didn't they step in and help in the 60s, 70s, 80s or the 90s or even two months ago. They conveniently `step up` one week after a land mark ruling from the SCC that finally acknowledged Title in non Treaty areas.

My observation was and remains Little Buffalo would be silly to try and negotiate a Treaty now after all these years and hope they don't get bought off by a measly 5.6m housing grant!!!!i agree something is afoot look at the deals the treatyless b.c. natives got

[Kurt505]

Oh trust me, I am very demanding of my immediate family and sphere of influence I think I may have. Spent countless hours talking to our youth about the empowerment of education, trained numerous young people in my lifetime and continue to fight what I call the "good fight".

This thread started with the Alberta government spending 5.6 million for housing in Little Buffalo and someone wanting a pat on the back for their actions. I questioned the motives. If the Alberta government was sincere, why didn't they step in and help in the 60s, 70s, 80s or the 90s or even two months ago. They conveniently `step up` one week after a land mark ruling from the SCC that finally acknowledged Title in non Treaty areas.

My observation was and remains Little Buffalo would be silly to try and negotiate a Treaty now after all these years and hope they don't get bought off by a measly 5.6m housing grant!!!!


Do you honestly believe the grant they gave will have any bearing on any upcoming negotiations?

I hope they appreciate the help more than you do.

[Mb-MBR]

Do you honestly believe the grant they gave will have any bearing on any upcoming negotiations?

I hope they appreciate the help more than you do.

Can you answer ..............why now and not 2, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago?

You've said your piece and I've said mine. Lets let time decide.....

[Mb-MBR]

i agree something is afoot look at the deals the treatyless b.c. natives got

I don't think B.C will be getting any more Treaties going forward.

[Kurt505]

Can you answer ..............why now and not 2, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago?

You've said your piece and I've said mine. Lets let time decide.....

The flood happened last year.

News flash, the people who are running the province today aren't the same people as 10, 20, 30, 40, or 50 years ago.

Do you realize how many non aboriginal Albertans only WISH the government would have helped them out in a time like this? For you to belittle them because they are actually doing something to help these people out just disgusts me. As an Albertan it's a slap in the face, and an arrogant tone about it to boot.

Here's a good read about your 3%

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/publications/Aboriginal-spending-2013.pdf.pdf

[elkhunter11]

Ahhh...so it is once again the white guys fault that the Chiefs are crooks........

Exactly, they vote one of their own people in to be their leader, and then they blame the government, when the person that they chose as their leader, takes advantage of them.:rolleye2:

[Mb-MBR]

The flood happened last year.

News flash, the people who are running the province today aren't the same people as 10, 20, 30, 40, or 50 years ago.

Do you realize how many non aboriginal Albertans only WISH the government would have helped them out in a time like this? For you to belittle them because they are actually doing something to help these people out just disgusts me. As an Albertan it's a slap in the face, and an arrogant tone about it to boot.

Oh Kurt have a snickers.....................no need to get worked up on a hunting forum. I was led to believe Alberta went above and beyond to help the poor soles of High River last year, so plenty of Albertans have benefitted from their government.

[CanuckShooter]

Band members but the Indian created an Indian Agent Chief reporting relationship, so as long as the chief got along with the Indian Agent, all was well at the hierarchy.

It's kind of interesting how various govt depts get involved in the native elections too. Buying votes, bringing incumbents into disrepute with phony audits....taking voters on trips....

They have hereditary Chiefs and DIA Chiefs....which one is the real Chief?

[elkhunter11]

Oh Kurt have a snickers.....................no need to get worked up on a hunting forum. I was led to believe Alberta went above and beyond to help the poor soles of High River last year, so plenty of Albertans have benefitted from their government.


About the only thing correct decision that the provincial PCs have made recently, is to toss out Redford. The decision to spend millions of provincial money on housing in Little Buffalo, was just about as wise as their decision to support the actions of the RCMP in High River.

[Kurt505]

Oh Kurt have a snickers.....................no need to get worked up on a hunting forum. I was led to believe Alberta went above and beyond to help the poor soles of High River last year, so plenty of Albertans have benefitted from their government..

They helped, and it was appreciated.

I know, I know. I'll have a snickers, but like you, sometimes it's nice to get something off your chest.

[brownbomber]

And coming to this country with nothing but a good work ethic and a desire to improve their position in life.

Natives that can't prosper here are free to leave and go to another country.

I'll bet they don't do as well as the Philippine immigrants do here.

My sister lives in England does pretty well working for British American tobacco after a long stint working in a ton of other places for bombardier, she does ok. My other sister has prospered working as a business consultant works for Huron and is based outta Chicago and get this ...... Wait for it...... Does pretty well for herself. So we do okay in other countries too.

[brownbomber]

Ahhh...so it is once again the white guys fault that the Chiefs are crooks........

Not really.
But the whole system holds people back. With all the glad handing and speeches and back slapping between both groups of politicians nothing gets done and nothing gets fixed. If Things really truly worked and nobody needed help would there be a need for INAC?? Would there be a need for chiefs? Other than ceremonial duties?
Nobody in any kind of power in the whole FN universe really truly benefits from people changing things. Of course they need some success stories, they need some stats, some grads etc..... But who does real change benefit? None of those guys.
Maybe I'm crazy, maybe I'm a pessimist.

[brownbomber]

Trust me, I understand that. Its so very convenient to use that phrase but if we were to use that phrase in all aspects of life, why would we need a justice system or law enforcement of any type????

How about let's not let it happen again. It's stuff that's not in the real distant past. Not easy to forget government mandated rape camp, funny how that messes with the family dynamic. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
But that stuffs happened, it's over. We (the people) need to not forget but to move on from it. Pain never helped anybody. We have to stop being self defeating and clinging to wrongs visited upon us isn't helping. It gives the donkeys (some in this thread) reasons to bray, and they along with ourselves are making self reliance nothing more than a afterthought for some. Its not people like me or you because we are confident and somewhat articulate and not intimidated by bs. I'm talking about the dudes that need the push, Need the encouragement and strength, that's who needs to change that's who can benefit from moving on.
Tranquility.

[expmler]

My sister lives in England does pretty well working for British American tobacco after a long stint working in a ton of other places for bombardier, she does ok. My other sister has prospered working as a business consultant works for Huron and is based outta Chicago and get this ...... Wait for it...... Does pretty well for herself. So we do okay in other countries too.

You miss the point of my post.

I am quite sure that your sisters would prosper in this country also due to their work ethic and ambition.

Without that, they would likely be doomed to reserve life.

[brownbomber]

You miss the point of my post.

I am quite sure that your sisters would prosper in this country also due to their work ethic and ambition.

Without that, they would likely be doomed to reserve life.

Not treaty bud, no Rez for us

[expmler]

Not treaty bud, no Rez for us

OK, so not physically living on a reserve.

Would your circumstances be much different if you lacked your work ethic and ambition.

[brownbomber]

Who said I had work ethic? I said my sisters do. What I'm good at is riding others coat tails and falling backwards into jobs that are way over my head.

Yeah I think I've posted that several times, you need to want to succeed. Or a variation of that statement. Nothing just happens for anyone unless you're born wealthy. By wealth I mean not my dad is a area foreman for Cnrl I mean my dad owns 6% of Cnrl.

Hard work is the key to all. I don't think we are arguing that.

[Wild&Free]

From what I've gathered reading through this is some don't understand what is required to overcome severe trauma, something many families experienced due to the policies of our previous governments in regards to the Indian Act and residential schools. it's not easy to get over alone, some people do but the vast majority need constructive support.

They don't need hand outs, they need a hand up. that hand might get bitten from time to time, because it is seen as the same hand that beat them down in the first place.

[Buckhead]

Trust me, I understand that. Its so very convenient to use that phrase but if we were to use that phrase in all aspects of life, why would we need a justice system or law enforcement of any type????

I don't speak out of convenience. I never have - and never will.

Pleae explain to me how we can put people on trial that are not among the living and what possible purpose it would serve.

[Kurt505]

Not treaty bud, no Rez for us

My point exactly, IMO coincidence.

[Mb-MBR]

I don't speak out of convenience. I never have - and never will.

Pleae explain to me how we can put people on trial that are not among the living and what possible purpose it would serve.

You don't put people on trial, you put the institutions on trial, how else are they going to learn????

[elkhunter11]

You don't put people on trial, you put the institutions on trial, how else are they going to learn????

From what I have seen over the years, the natives could care less about teaching the government, it's all about getting money from them. Money seems to make all of their problems go away, at least until they spend that money, and want more.

[Kurt505]

My point exactly, IMO coincidence.

That's supposed to read "IMO, no coincidence".