In light of the recent disappearance in Calgary...

[Artist]

In light of the recent disappearance in Calgary, the discussion in our home has focussed on what we would do in the unlikely event of a brazen home intrusion into our home.

Obviously, there's no way to predict exactly what could happen (and what would happen) within those moments of an intruder entering ones home, however, would some on AO who are more familiar with Canadian law care to articulate [from a legal perspective], what lies within the legal right of a home-owner when planning to [or when carrying out] measures to defend ones home and/or family?

Heightened emotions at a time like this bring to mind all sorts of [I]"well this is what I would do" scenarios - scenarios which are often fuelled by anger, or, by watching too many Steven Seagal movies.

Emotions and Steven aside, what might be some calculated, level-headed, and legal preparation-plans to deal with an intruder[s]?

[ali#1]

I'm not sure of the law but If someone is inside my house attempting to harm me of my family murder isn't out of the question. Il take whatever comes afterward.

[rugatika]

LEGALLY, we as Canadians have the right to curl up in a little ball in the fetal position. Clasp your hands behind your neck. Do not struggle. (partly tongue in cheek)

Defending yourself against a home invasion, you better have some damn good evidence piled up, a pocket full of four leaf clovers, and a long history of taking it on the chin, and very deep pockets. You will be a victim twice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/02/08/self-defence-law-canada-rob-nicholson_n_1263912.html

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/01/05/ontario_man_acquitted_of_charges_in_home_attack_sa ys_case_sets_self_defence_precedent.html

If you successfully defend yourself, expect to have charges laid against you, be drug through the courts, slandered, etc etc etc.

Canadians have the right to defend ourselves, (with an appropriate level of response) but I would say the chances of being charged and put through the legal system wringer are very high. (and the more it looks like you were planning ahead the higher your chances of being George Zimmermanned)

ie: use that old 20g SXS shotgun instead of your tacticool shottie, kitchen knife instead of ninja sword, easton baseball bat instead of 14th century mace with REVENGE written on it. etc etc.

[Sushi]

Inside your home you fight fire with fire.

[257wbyhunter]

Inside your home you fight fire with fire.

AGREE 100% My dad always use to say he could go to jail for a long time knowing he did the right thing. now that i have a family i completely understand.

[silverdoctor]

Bill C-26 changed some of the self defense laws in Canada...

It notes that defending such property does not constitute an assault if those on the defensive believe on reasonable grounds that someone “is about to enter, is entering or has entered the property without being entitled by law to do so,” and intends to steal or damage that property.

But, and there's always that but, you don't get a blank check to kill. There is always the reasonable force rule. That said, if I had kids and their life was in danger... I'd probably end up in jail.


Interesting one to keep an eye on. The brothers are facing charges for defending their home. I can't find any updates to the story.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/04/29/matt-gurney-latest-home-invasion-case-to-test-canadas-self-defence-laws/

[Artist]

AGREE 100% My dad always use to say he could go to jail for a long time knowing he did the right thing. now that i have a family i completely understand.

...OK, I understand the point, but does "doing the right thing" always have to involve a defense strategy where it's assumed a firearm will be the "tool" of choice? What would the law do to a homeowner using (for example) Bear-Spray to defend? Not all intruders are going to have a firearm either.

[covey ridge]

I'm not sure of the law but If someone is inside my house attempting to harm me of my family murder isn't out of the question. Il take whatever comes afterward.

Force used to defend you and your family against a very real threat including force that ends in fatality will not always result in a murder charge.

On the other hand if you chase the perp from your home and pursue him and finish him off, that is a different matter.

[ali#1]

Force used to defend you and your family against a very real threat including force that ends in fatality will not always result in a murder charge.

On the other hand if you chase the perp from your home and pursue him and finish him off, that is a different matter.

I always think what will a jury of moms and dads think is reasonable force ?.

[Mb-MBR]

I told an officer who attended to a break in at my residence that if I were home and the kids were I would have no problem s_ ooting the intruder.s...........he asked for a favour, to fire a warning shot, he didn't care if it was before or after. Always in the back of my mind....:thinking-006:

[BeeGuy]

unique and timely subject

[leadpillproductions]

I was told by a cop years ago fire the warning shot into the roof second , and dont wound him

[ali#1]

I told an officer who attended to a break in at my residence that if I were home and the kids were I would have no problem s_ ooting the intruder.s...........he asked for a favour, to fire a warning shot, he didn't care if it was before or after. Always in the back of my mind....:thinking-006:

I work with cops occasionally. I asked a cop one time this question he said make sure you shoot in the front and always make sure the perp had a knife without your finger prints on them.:scared0018:

[ali#1]

I was told by a cop years ago fire the warning shot into the roof second , and dont wound him

Yes the cop also told me don't shoot to wound, dead men tell no lies.

[Ken07AOVette]

Was told 1 between the eyes.

Trouble is my handguns are a long way away behind steel trigger locked and ammo is in another room.

Mind you I live here partially for that reason, the only intruders we ever have are skunks.

[Bushmaster]

I sleep with a loaded .357 Mag within reach. I'm sure I wouldn't be afraid to use it.

[257wbyhunter]

...OK, I understand the point, but does "doing the right thing" always have to involve a defense strategy where it's assumed a firearm will be the "tool" of choice? What would the law do to a homeowner using (for example) Bear-Spray to defend? Not all intruders are going to have a firearm either.

the last thing i am worried about is the law because obviously the guy coming threw the door don't give a you know what about it. and i am not gong to wait and see what he has for a weapon i am just going to arm myself with the best weapon i have which would be a firearm. he comes in my house with a knife and i have a gun he might think twice. he comes in with a gun and i have bear spray then what? does a father and husband really want to take that chance? i will not and if he wants to make a scene there will only be one story when the police show up and i guarantee it won't be his. thats just my opinion.

[Artist]

the last thing i am worried about is the law because obviously the guy coming threw the door don't give a you know what about it. and i am not gong to wait and see what he has for a weapon i am just going to arm myself with the best weapon i have which would be a firearm. he comes in my house with a knife and i have a gun he might think twice. he comes in with a gun and i have bear spray then what? does a father and husband really want to take that chance? i will not and if he wants to make a scene there will only be one story when the police show up and i guarantee it won't be his. thats just my opinion.

...and that, is a very well-articulated opinion. :)
PS. This thread is generating some very good discussion around the dinner table!

[denpacc]

I have a good friend who was robbed at knife-point in the store he worked. He is a bouncer and very tough, had a bat for protection within a couple of steps. I questioned why he never used the bat, he said they were on him before he knew what was happening. These are usually professional thieves/thugs who've been around the block. I'm sure if he went for the bat he would have been seriously injured or killed. It doesn't always work out John Wayne style even when you have protection. An equalizer of some sort is no doubt beneficial, but the best protection is to use your smarts.

Good topic Artist, I hope this will continue to promote intelligent discussion on AO and around the kitchen table. Nice to hear some other opinions and ideas to protect oneself, even though there is an extremely remote chance of this happening to any of us.

[dodger]

I find the ill grab my gun and defend my home a little unrealistic.

As mentioned about discussion around the dinner table - the door is kicked in and your sitting at the dinner table - their the gun idea just went out the window.

I went with security doors as they are not able to kick them in. If they decide to smash a window then chances are I have time to grab an equalizer. The security doors are great as I can answer the door but they can't bust their way in.

Dodger.

[J D]

In all honesty I cannot really say how I would react. When it comes down to it I will do what I believe needs to be done and I will not be thinking about the law at the time.

Fear and adrenaline will most likely dictate the out come

[NSDucknut]

Impossible to say. If it's out of your control with no time to react...anything could happen.

If I knew my wife and child were in danger, and HAD the seconds needed to open the safe and pull a trigger lock, I would shoot for maximum effect. Any consequences after that would be nothing compared to the negatives from not doing the most I could to protect family.

Has nothing to do with playing Rambo. Have thought it over many times since I've had kids and I'm pretty sure i know what I would be capable of

[257wbyhunter]

I find the ill grab my gun and defend my home a little unrealistic.

As mentioned about discussion around the dinner table - the door is kicked in and your sitting at the dinner table - their the gun idea just went out the window.

I went with security doors as they are not able to kick them in. If they decide to smash a window then chances are I have time to grab an equalizer. The security doors are great as I can answer the door but they can't bust their way in.

Dodger.

chances that a door gets kicked in by criminals at supper time i find un-realistic criminals will not do that because the chances of a scene with the home owners are high they just want to get in and out with out anyone knowing. they wouldn't have to kick my door in at supper time just need to turn the knob. most break ins are drug addicts looking for stuff to steal and not looking for a fight.

[covey ridge]

I always think what will a jury of moms and dads think is reasonable force ?.

Reasonable force might not be the issue. Your intent may be more of an issue. You said:

"murder isn't out of the question"

In my home if I felt the life of me or my family was threatened and I could not avoid the threat I would do what it takes to stop the threat. Kicking, gouging biting and kneeing and if there was a blade handy my defense might also include slashing and stabbing. If for some reason I could get my hands on one of my firearms and load it and I still felt life was at stake I would shoot and that might result in the death of the intruder, but for me MURDER IS OUT OF THE QUESTION.

[ramonmark]

As a start- Equip each room to help against intrusion. Heavy door frames, solid doors and heavy locks with lock plates. Keep your old cell phones and litter them through the house. Spare bed room night stands, closets, ect. (911 always works on cells with or without a service plan, as long as their charged). This should buy you or a family member some time to make a quick call for help if the unthinkable happens.

As life line to wait until help arrives - My master bedroom and man cave downstairs are additionally equipped with an emergency kit. In the kits are things like high intensity flashlight, cell phone, folding knife, small extinguisher, among 'other' things. Since it’s hard to think and perform even the smallest tasks when under high amounts of stress, Id strongly recommend a 'cheat sheet'. Something you can read or refer to when on the phone with emergency services. This is one close to the one I have off the top of my head and in no particular order.

-what is the problem (fire, medical emerg, 'intruder' (how manys?), ect)
-Your address
-Your name
-How many people dwell in the house
-Names of the dwellers
-Ages of dwelling people
-Physical descriptions (height, weight, sex, clothing if you’re able to remember).
-Where you are located now (closet, bed room, under bed, exact location)

Basically write down the things that you'll need to get out quickly saving precious time. These are generally things we know and take for granted but have a hard time remembering when under stress. You think you can blurt out your anniversary date in less than 5 seconds when asked to out of the blue? Try providing an accurate land description when you're on the phone with police and all you can hear is your wife’s screams. If time allows, the rest will be covered by the highly trained emergency personnel on the other end. The will ask questions to keep you talking and to provide up to date info for the responding personnel.

This is my personal design, it’s not made for everyone but it might help you at least get the ball rolling. I live in town and the response time of emergency services obviously plays a huge role in developing your own plan. Some argue for or against weapons. My personal feelings are different than a legal standpoint and that is all I will say. Regardless of what I am equipped with to defend myself. Be it a weapon of opportunity, firearm or just my bare knuckles. I know that I will fight like a starving crazed animal cornered and fighting for its last meal!

[CaberTosser]

Options for me: Murder no, but lethal self defense most certainly.


There's a multitude of bladed tools easily accessed from my bedroom, the kitchen is an obvious spot (but keep in mind that applies to both parties. I have one of those small gunvaults that I will be incorporating into some custom furniture that will allow for safe, legal storage combined with rapid access even with a dopey just-woke-up state of mind. Pistol, magazine and flashlight all within the same spot. Being married the Mrs would be able to call 911, but a person living alone might want to keep an old charged cell phone with the aforementioned tools simply for ease of access. Most people are aware that old phones with no service provider contracts can still access 911, but I thought I'd mention it for those who might not. Having non-lethal means of defense to accompany your lethal means of defense would show cautious preparation should anything ever wind up in court; it could be argued that the lesser means was not sufficient for the situation at hand, but that because you made the effort to have it available, you're not hell-bent on killing.



I just had an idea for an awesome non-lethal defensive tool combination, will have to see if there's any similar products and file a patent before I spill the beans.

Edit: I see that Ramonmark was also on the same train of thought regarding old cell phones...

[DoubleU]

You have the right to defend yourself. You do not have the right to murder someone. If someone breaks into your house with the intention of stealing your TV, you are obviously not legally aloud to kill them or beat the living S&^* out of them.

If someone breaks into your house with the intention of harming you, IE, gun, baseball bat etc than clearly your reaction is different.

This is the same principles of any police officer. It isn't hard to use commonsense here. Why would anyone ever think they have the "right" to shoot at someone who has no intention of harming the persons inside. In the case in question, its clear that the person(s) responsible were not there to steal something, they were there for something more sinister.

As always, this all comes down to articulation but you bet your ass, if you harm someone in your home worse than what is acceptable, you had better have a justified reason other than "they broke into my house" because you will have to face the music. I know how we all feel about this and I agree with everyone when it comes to some stranger being in my home. At the same time shooting the 15 year old looking for electronics is not going to fly.

[wildcat111]

if i could get to my rifles fast enough without putting my family members in danger thats the course i would take, if i couldn't i would sacrifice myself in hopes of my family escaping the situation, legally if put in this situation the safety of my family would come first. sure tough times will follow, but i could sleep better at night knowing i did every thing i could to protect my family

[Wild&Free]

Lots of good advice.

I'd like to add in, make sure your children know where to go an what to do. get safe, call for help, hide and stay quiet less it turn into a hostage situation.

loaded secure firearm imo isn't a horrible idea. I'd rather face unsafe storage, then attend a funeral.

[Artist]

OK - so hypothetical situation - in the event you're quickly going to pull a firearm from its legally-stored place (provided you've set it up to be able to do it quickly) - (making the assumption that you want to be able to exercise your full capability in terms of your right to defend), at the end of the day, would you be dealt with differently in a Court of Law, if you pulled a handgun, as opposed to having pulled a (let's say, shotgun?). As soon as you pull a handgun out from its legally stored place, (even in your home), and possibly discharge it, are you not already automatically in violation of the law the instant you pull it out because your'e not at a "range"? In comparison, pulling a shotgun would not fall under those same strict regulations. Or?...is it not illegal to have a handgun out of its locked case in your own home?

I know the comments have been made, "I don't care about the law at that point" - and I get that - you may not, and that's you're right not to :), however, it makes sense to me to tailor a defensive plan which eliminates as much illegality as possible, thereby at least making it more difficult for charges to "stick" against you. I get the whole "I will defend my family at any cost" thinking - I agree - I'm a Daddy too, yet, at the same time, a Daddy sitting in jail isn't the greatest scenario for the family either!

In short, might it be more wise to build a defender shotgun into ones defense plan rather than a handgun, simply given the extra layer of restrictions that go along with handguns?

I've heard of guys having a "handgun at the ready." Are you not, already upfront, subjecting yourself to a lot of extra potential charges by having a handgun at the ready as compared to instead having a shotgun at the ready?

[rugatika]

OK - so hypothetical situation - in the event you're quickly going to pull a firearm from its legally-stored place (provided you've set it up to be able to do it quickly) - (making the assumption that you want to be able to exercise your full capability in terms of your right to defend), at the end of the day, would you be dealt with differently in a Court of Law, if you pulled a handgun, as opposed to having pulled a (let's say, shotgun?). As soon as you pull a handgun out from its legally stored place, (even in your home), and possibly discharge it, are you not already automatically in violation of the law the instant you pull it out because your'e not at a "range"? In comparison, pulling a shotgun would not fall under those same strict regulations. Or?...is it not illegal to have a handgun out of its locked case in your own home?

I know the comments have been made, "I don't care about the law at that point" - and I get that - you may not, and that's you're right not to :), however, it makes sense to me to tailor a defensive plan which eliminates as much illegality as possible, thereby at least making it more difficult for charges to "stick" against you. I get the whole "I will defend my family at any cost" thinking - I agree - I'm a Daddy too, yet, at the same time, a Daddy sitting in jail isn't the greatest scenario for the family either!

In short, might it be more wise to build a defender shotgun into ones defense plan rather than a handgun, simply given the extra layer of restrictions that go along with handguns?

If you shoot someone in your house who had say a hammer or even a knife, the odds are pretty good you're going to court. When the crown holds up the weapon you used to shoot your attacker in front of the jury (who are likely to be ignorant of guns at best), do you want it to be a "sawed off, assault" shotgun or your old 20g bird gun handed down to you from your grandpa who used to regale you with tales of taking grouse in the olden days with that gun as you sat upon his knee when you were a wee pup? Just something to think about. The crown will likely not be trying to present facts in a fair and even handed manner. They will be trying to win.

[Wild&Free]

The gun is a last resort. getting safe and secure is first priority. if it comes down to having to use lethal force, there is no quibbling on legalities beyond justification.

[midgetwaiter]

Given how likely I am to have to defend my home in this manner I am going to give this matter all of the thought it deserves. Exactly zero seconds.

You want to make your family safe? Figure out how to feed them a better diet and learn to be a defensive driver. Then get some exercise, then thow out he booze, then keep going with the exersize. Once you have worked down the list the way down to lightning proof hats then worry about this.

[ramonmark]

Leave the protection to others to the sheep dogs. The words spoken from a true sheep. If we all prepared for violence caused to us or others with as much thought as we did to a fire emergency, then we would live in a safer place. IMO

Given how likely I am to have to defend my home in this manner I am going to give this matter all of the thought it deserves. Exactly zero seconds.

You want to make your family safe? Figure out how to feed them a better diet and learn to be a defensive driver. Then get some exercise, then thow out he booze, then keep going with the exersize. Once you have worked down the list the way down to lightning proof hats then worry about this.

[CaberTosser]

I see no harm in preparing for intruders in a similar fashion that one would for fire, heavy precipitation, first aid emergencies, etc. Being proactive doesn't necessarily mean that one is off their rocker. I will certainly admit that some people do to to wild extremes 'prepping', almost to the point you think they'll be extremely disappointed if the economy doesn't collapse, anarchy take root, natural disasters occur on biblical scales while the domino effect triggers a nuclear holocaust. More than a few are gonna be royally ****ed if all of that doesn't happen and they realize they could have bought way more Star Trek collectibles and/or mail-order brides instead.

We have fire extinguishers, we have insurance, we have numerous first aid kits and the Mrs & I took St Johns courses together when I had to renew my work certifications. I also have a few very basic plans to defend Chateau Caber should the need arise, and have wired the place for more than a few security cameras. Being that the nature of most crimes is so very random that nobody could prepare for all possibilities, simple is good. Make your place a less attractive target than the neighbors and you'll more than likely be OK, as most crimes are those of opportunity.

[coolpete1]

i have an alarm and 2 big dogs , if an intruder still wants to come in here he deserves to get shot .

[bison]

Was told 1 between the eyes.

Trouble is my handguns are a long way away behind steel trigger locked and ammo is in another room.

Mind you I live here partially for that reason, the only intruders we ever have are skunks.
You are kidding...right?

[fishead]

Latest events certainly makes me think having a Louisville close by while sleeping is not a bad idea.

[midgetwaiter]

Leave the protection to others to the sheep dogs. The words spoken from a true sheep. If we all prepared for violence caused to us or others with as much thought as we did to a fire emergency, then we would live in a safer place. IMO

You are 40 times more likely to be a victim of cancer than homicide.

I'm sure it feels great to trot around the pasture with your big brass gonads clanking together but the sheep are still dying.

[midgetwaiter]

I also have a few very basic plans to defend Chateau Caber should the need arise, and have wired the place for more than a few security cameras. Being that the nature of most crimes is so very random that nobody could prepare for all possibilities, simple is good. Make your place a less attractive target than the neighbors and you'll more than likely be OK, as most crimes are those of opportunity.

Peace of mind is it's own reward I suppose but the point is that any time or resources you spend to that end could be better spent elsewhere if you take a look at what is most likely to harm you or your family.

[twofifty]

The chest beating in threads like this is always entertaining.

[Carson12]

Options for me: Murder no, but lethal self defense most certainly.
I have one of those small gunvaults that I will be incorporating into some custom furniture that will allow for safe, legal storage combined with rapid access even with a dopey just-woke-up state of mind. Pistol, magazine and flashlight all within the same spot.

Not a criticism, but the question you might want to ask yourself is: do you really want to have a loaded pistol in your hand when you're in a dopey just-woke-up state of mind?

When you've gone from REM sleep to a heart rate of 170bpm in about 10 seconds and enough adrenaline flowing through you that your hands couldn't hold a cup of coffee? When your flashlight isn't showing you anywhere near enough of what's actually happening and your mind is scrambling to put together the missing pieces of an incomplete scenario so it starts filling stuff in? Then you see something play out before you and it seems obvious what's going down and you have a split second to make a decision and you reflexively start to pull the trigger ....

Most people, including myself, imagine a worst case scenario under the best possible conditions. Drug addicts with bad guy nametags kicking in the door and declaring their intentions to murder the family. But IMO the chances of you making a mistake with that firearm are probably higher than the chances of you legitimately needing to use that firearm for self defense, no matter how you may convince yourself otherwise.

I keep a variety of items that can be used as improvised weapons in most rooms of my home. Anytime I think about keeping a firearm within easy access all I have to do is remember how one night many years ago, if it weren't for the smallest twist of dumb luck my brother in law would be dead and my father would be in jail and my entire life would have been completely different from what it is now. Then I put that idea away.

[woody1948]

In the summer I am 7 miles up a lake in Bear country. My dog is a very light sleeper, and it would be next to impossible to get near the house with him in it. I can get to a loaded shotgun before I could get my pants on, I think the Bear would be making a mistake if he tried to enter here.

[Norman]

i have an alarm and 2 big dogs , if an intruder still wants to come in here he deserves to get shot .

With two big dogs he might just ask to be shot

[TomCanuck]

The thing to understand, is that unless you are a VIP, then your personal / family security is up to you. Knowing this, it's up to you to act appropriately and realistically to the actual level of threat you and yours are under. It's not a one size fits all kind of thing.

The legal aspects are important as well, but in my view they come second if they result in significant risk of being the loser in a Darwinian struggle.

It's all about having a realistic perception of risk vs. reward. In the end it's better to be judged by 12, but your actions will be judged. Also, just because the being armed scenario is not perfect, does not mean it's completely invalid. In the end, it's what ever works for you.

Nothing to lose sleep over.

[CaberTosser]

Peace of mind is it's own reward I suppose but the point is that any time or resources you spend to that end could be better spent elsewhere if you take a look at what is most likely to harm you or your family.

You write this after I already noted about fire extinguishers, first aid training and supplies, as well as proactive measures to make the house a less attractive target to those with ill intent. You're telling me to do what I already said I have done.... :thinking-006:


Not a criticism, but the question you might want to ask yourself is: do you really want to have a loaded pistol in your hand when you're in a dopey just-woke-up state of mind?

When you've gone from REM sleep to a heart rate of 170bpm in about 10 seconds and enough adrenaline flowing through you that your hands couldn't hold a cup of coffee? When your flashlight isn't showing you anywhere near enough of what's actually happening and your mind is scrambling to put together the missing pieces of an incomplete scenario so it starts filling stuff in? Then you see something play out before you and it seems obvious what's going down and you have a split second to make a decision and you reflexively start to pull the trigger.

The pistol would not be loaded, but a heartbeats away from being so. I noted a magazine with it, not in it; nor would I have a round chambered. About 12 years ago I actually experienced a nightime break-in where I was home, which is what precipitated the idea, so this is not fairy-tale or paranoia based, it's reality-based. Also, to claim I would reflexively pull the trigger is patently absurd and a little bit insulting; I don't have any 'Nam flashbacks, PTSD or a history where using lethal force before surmising a situation clearly would be 'reflexive'. A firearm would just be there to ensure the balance of power remains where it should be, and that is with me in my own home; escalating an event to becoming deadly would be the perps choice, not mine. I'd much prefer to restrain a dirtbag for a handover to the police than to kill them; noting that, I suppose it would be a good idea to have some heavy-duty zip-ties conveniently available....

[Ken07AOVette]

You are kidding...right?

Not kidding at all, why?

[TomCanuck]

You are 40 times more likely to be a victim of cancer than homicide.

I'm sure it feels great to trot around the pasture with your big brass gonads clanking together but the sheep are still dying.

Quoting stats, is nice, being a crime stat... not so much. Although the chances of being a victim of violent crime in your own home are extremely low, they are obviously not zero. My BIL does a lot of carpentry work on high end acreage estates, and a lot of them have panic rooms.

Just like work safety, home security is YOUR responsibility... unless you're a VIP, and even then, it's good to have a heavy chunk of soap-stone handy.

[brownbomber]

Not kidding at all, why?

You're supposed to rely on a gun not yourself. You're supposed to thump your chest. Maybe being confident should tell others something. I've had people on my doorstep with bad intentions. I sleep well at night.

[Dacotensis]

You have the right to defend yourself. You do not have the right to murder someone. If someone breaks into your house with the intention of stealing your TV, you are obviously not legally aloud to kill them or beat the living S&^* out of them.

If someone breaks into your house with the intention of harming you, IE, gun, baseball bat etc than clearly your reaction is different.

This is the same principles of any police officer. It isn't hard to use commonsense here. Why would anyone ever think they have the "right" to shoot at someone who has no intention of harming the persons inside. In the case in question, its clear that the person(s) responsible were not there to steal something, they were there for something more sinister.

As always, this all comes down to articulation.

Of course, how does one know what an intruders intentions are?

Best course of action is to sit them down and get them talking.

I'm not joking.
My best defense is my mouth.
Why not get the perp talking. Get info. Find out what they want. Exactly what they want.
Then tell them what they want....
Tell them if any harm or theft comes your way, you're going to go Mel Gibson on them and put a hit on their ass :)

I have a feeling that with the case in Calgary, the people were in invited into the home to buy something.
It's a different situation but still warrants having a plan.

When I have a garage sale and I'm holding a decent chunk of cash, I always have a plan.
I worked hard to earn my cash, and I'll go the distance to keep it.

Trickery, deceit, self defense.
Whatever it takes to protect person and property.


There have been some pretty horrific cases of b and e and assaults on entire families in Canada.
The thought of preparing for an incident merits discussion.

[twofifty]

Hey, we don't mess around here in British Columbia. ;)

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

You have the right to defend yourself. You do not have the right to murder someone. If someone breaks into your house with the intention of stealing your TV, you are obviously not legally aloud to kill them or beat the living S&^* out of them.

If someone breaks into your house with the intention of harming you, IE, gun, baseball bat etc than clearly your reaction is different.

This is the same principles of any police officer. It isn't hard to use commonsense here. Why would anyone ever think they have the "right" to shoot at someone who has no intention of harming the persons inside. In the case in question, its clear that the person(s) responsible were not there to steal something, they were there for something more sinister.

As always, this all comes down to articulation but you bet your ass, if you harm someone in your home worse than what is acceptable, you had better have a justified reason other than "they broke into my house" because you will have to face the music. I know how we all feel about this and I agree with everyone when it comes to some stranger being in my home. At the same time shooting the 15 year old looking for electronics is not going to fly.

It's 3am and you're awakened by 2 guys busting through your kitchen window. How are you determining intent? Do you go through the house turning lights on and, paraphrasing Carson, look for "Bad Guys with Guns and Violent Intentions" name tags?

[twofifty]

It would be nice to have options.

[ramonmark]

You are 40 times more likely to be a victim of cancer than homicide.

I'm sure it feels great to trot around the pasture with your big brass gonads clanking together but the sheep are still dying.

And to each there own. If you knew what I was talking about we wouldn't be in this P1ssing contest. Clearly you don't. Anyone and there computer can quote crime stats. Since you're on the inter-wed try getting us stats on what I was talking about. I stated the if we put a lot of thought about violence to ourselves and others would be a good idea. I did NOT say homicide. I said Violence. That's a bully pushing around a child to domestic assault. Run those numbers and get back to me. I deal with violence on a day to day basic. I see the harm it causes to victims and even witnesses. I know what I'm talking about and I get what you're getting at. Eat healthy and workout, you're very likely to get harmed by you're own body then my someone else. Very true. Although, the OP was asking for legal advise on how to protect himself and others from a home invasion. If you can't provide him with info beat it. Next time I'm looking for info on cancer rates or how many calories I should consume a day to stay fit I'll be sure to contact you. Or I can just google it like you. Thanks for your contribution to this thread. I believe this thread has be off topic long enough.

OP, if you'd like some professional and legal advise, PM me.

[Sooner]

Beside my bed is an old wood Louisville slugger and a can of bear spray. If i hear a window or door being compromised you bet I will have both in hand while i go investigate. The guns i have are in a locked cabinet and do me no good. I know my house and i should have the advantage day or night. I hope i never find myself in the situation but defend/protect the family to the death is not an unreasonable thought to me. As long as I am not bringing a bat to a gun fight so to speak.

[Okotokian]

I sleep with a loaded .357 Mag within reach. I'm sure I wouldn't be afraid to use it.

Problem with that is that it seems that Canadian law says you can defend yourself, but you can't PREPARE to defend yourself.

[silverdoctor]

I sleep with a loaded .357 Mag within reach. I'm sure I wouldn't be afraid to use it.

I'll support you in doing so, but not sure if admitting that publicly is a great idea in this country...

[Dog hunter]

Since we have to lock up our guns and ammo so tightly it takes me 10 minutes to get one loaded i keep a SOG BATTLEAXE under my bed,, come and get it!!

[Weedy1]

I'll support you in doing so, but not sure if admitting that publicly is a great idea in this country...

Bingo

[raab]

For me I don't care if someone breaks in to steal something I own. That stuff can be replaced. So I have a plan to protect my family and keep us safe. It's easier then going and trying to confront guys who could be armed.

[Artist]

For me I don't care if someone breaks in to steal something I own. That stuff can be replaced. So I have a plan to protect my family and keep us safe. It's easier then going and trying to confront guys who could be armed.

...but what if they're not coming for the things you own, ...what if they're coming for you (or your family?)

[raab]

...but what if they're not coming for the things you own, ...what if they're coming for you (or your family?)

As I said I have a plan, and that plan involves not trying to engage them. If they do come close I'll give them a warning. If they still try to come into the space where we've barricaded ourselves I'd be forced to use lethal force. Hopefully it never comes to that and it'd take a special type of person to be dumb enough to try and attack a man who has the defensive position, knows the lay out of his house, and is armed and can think clearly in stressful situations.

[syncronized77]

Since we have to lock up our guns and ammo so tightly it takes me 10 minutes to get one loaded i keep a SOG BATTLEAXE under my bed,, come and get it!!

LOL...my thoughts as well, if someone breaks into your house, I couldn't honestly tell myself that I have time to get to my gun case, remove the trigger lock, unlock my ammo safe and load...all the while adrenaline is pumping through your veins.

But I think one poster said it right...if a junkie is trying to steal your TV, I don't think that warrants lethal force. But if someone is intending to do harm to you or family members...I might find myself on the dark side

[J D]

The truth is many here think they know what they will do but in the end shock and adrenalin will screw up any plans.

Odds are if a problem like this happens it will be blind reaction not the plan you came up with.

When crap hits the fan your body will be hit with a sensory overload. Everyone has different natural reactions when this happens but it usually leads to a fight or flight response

[covey ridge]

The truth is many here think they know what they will do but in the end shock and adrenalin will screw up any plans.

Odds are if a problem like this happens it will be blind reaction not the plan you came up with.

When crap hits the fan your body will be hit with a sensory overload. Everyone has different natural reactions when this happens but it usually leads to a fight or flight response

I think that you are very correct for the many, but it does not have to be that way. I think raab has it right for his situation. A rehearsed plan much like a fire drill with a preplanned muster point will not guarantee success but following a plan rather that emotions might be better.

[bigbadjoe108]

The truth is many here think they know what they will do but in the end shock and adrenalin will screw up any plans.

Odds are if a problem like this happens it will be blind reaction not the plan you came up with.

When crap hits the fan your body will be hit with a sensory overload. Everyone has different natural reactions when this happens but it usually leads to a fight or flight response

This is all true, and why it is wise to practice things like fire drills and plans for this kind of a thing. Familliarity breeds comfort.

And on top of eating right, working out and living healthy, it is a good idea to think through all sorts of scenarios.

Years ago fire was a huge killer, but now workplaces, schools and houseowners practice escaping from such with some regularity. This as well as having better building codes and the like has cut the death rate due to fire to such a small number it isn't even really a thing now.

Violence of any sort is more common than fire... I think it would be wise to rehearse for that as well.:test:

My 0.012 ( used to be 2 Cents, but I got taxed...)

[bessiedog]

Chest thumping..

Two words to protect your family in many versatile ways.
My system has effectively deterred both two legged and four legged intruders that intended harm to my family and property.

Big dog.


Cheap, easy, legal, preventative.

Anything determined enough to get past her, gives me enough time to assess, unlock, load and respond for fear of my life....


Pretty simple.