Farmer Charged

[Mudzbogger]

Farmer Charged finallly after this winters altercation...

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/deryl-ring-charged-after-altercation-with-snowmobilers-1

[Lefty-Canuck]

Hope there were charges laid against the trespassers also...I think what the farmer did was stupid, but they are both at fault in this situation.

LC

[Kurt505]

Ya, I remember that one. Nobody was innocent there, but pistol whipping a guy, so to speak for the crime they were committing seems a bit extreme. I had a couple guys ripping across my land that I chased down with my sled, but I just warned them about the barbed wire fence along the south side of the property so they wouldn't behead themselves. I guess the farmer in question has a bigger problem with sledders than I do.

[elkhunter11]

but pistol whipping a guy, so to speak for the crime they were committing seems a bit extreme.

You are as bad as the media, if you call an open handed slap ,"pistol whipping". Yes he did assault the idiot that was trespassing, but the other charges are a farce. The shotgun was being carried, but it wasn't even deliberately aimed at the trespassers, lets alone used to assault them. Hopefully at least the trespassers will be charged as well.

[Deer Hunter]

You are as bad as the media, if you call an open handed slap ,"pistol whipping". Yes he did assault the idiot that was trespassing, but the other charges are a farce. The shotgun was being carried, but it wasn't even deliberately aimed at the trespassers, lets alone used to assault them. Hopefully at least the trespassers will be charged as well.

Anyone who assaults someone while carrying a weapon, whether the weapon is used or not should be charged as if it was. Anyone who brings a gun to confront someone on a misdemeanour is an idiot and should spend some serious time behind bars. You, distinguishing between open handed or close handed... Give me a break. Is one more suitable??:snapoutofit:

[JohninAB]

You are as bad as the media, if you call an open handed slap ,"pistol whipping". Yes he did assault the idiot that was trespassing, but the other charges are a farce. The shotgun was being carried, but it wasn't even deliberately aimed at the trespassers, lets alone used to assault them. Hopefully at least the trespassers will be charged as well.

What do you base your comment on that the snowmobiler was an idiot? Or just another instance of you judging everyone and everything in your usual demeaning manner?

Anyone who assaults someone while carrying a weapon, whether the weapon is used or not should be charged as if it was. Anyone who brings a gun to confront someone on a misdemeanour is an idiot and should spend some serious time behind bars. You, distinguishing between open handed or close handed... Give me a break. Is one more suitable??:snapoutofit:

Agree!

[gramps73]

Anyone who assaults someone while carrying a weapon, whether the weapon is used or not should be charged as if it was. Anyone who brings a gun to confront someone on a misdemeanour is an idiot and should spend some serious time behind bars. You, distinguishing between open handed or close handed... Give me a break. Is one more suitable??:snapoutofit:

Agreed x2

[packhuntr]

Thats the pits alright. If he only could have known charges were imminent, he coulda really let the ignorant no good.... townies have er. Un real the direction society has went the last 60 years. Loser townies and thier soft hippy law. Dont get er rolling on the crap thats going on now in rural Ab. Expect anything where humanity/society is concerned to get way worse.

[wildside2014]

What do you base your comment on that the snowmobiler was an idiot? Or just another instance of you judging everyone and everything in your usual demeaning manner?



Agree!

How is he not an idiot if he was slamming his sled across another guys field without getting permission first?

[JohninAB]

How is he not an idiot if he was slamming his sled across another guys field without getting permission first?

Do you know why he was slamming his sled across the field? Was he lost? Did he mistaken the piece of property for land he had permission on?

But you go on assuming whatever you want.

[wildside2014]

Do you know why he was slamming his sled across the field? Was he lost? Did he mistaken the piece of property for land he had permission on?

But you go on assuming whatever you want.

Im sure this argument has been beaten to death on here before so we don't really need to go back in to it.

I don't care why he was going across the owners. I dont care if he mistook the field for another. Guy was on a field he had no business being on.

[dmcbride]

Im sure this argument has been beaten to death on here before so we don't really need to go back in to it.

I don't care why he was going across the owners. I dont care if he mistook the field for another. Guy was on a field he had no business being on.

Agreed 100%

If you don't know where you are when you are snowmobiling you shouldn't be snowmobiling.

[Ken07AOVette]

Irregardless of the circumstances leading up to the altercation, brandishing a firearm then striking someone while brandishing a firearm is nothing but stupid and I am glad he was charged.
We all know damn well why he had the gun, it was his over the top equalizer.

[nekred]

Both sides are in the wrong.....

however when I was a kid and the neighbouring farmers never had a problem with us snowmobiling across their land, they realised we were leaving very little impact, in fact some farmers even went further to encourage it to help pack the snow into their stubble to retain water in the spring....

We also had no problem getting permission to hunt because we knew to stay out of the crop etc.

Today along with stingy miserly landowners who worry about every little thing on their land to wthe self directed enforcerss ( hunters who have exclusive permission) and the outfitters who magically always seem to end up with exclusive permission it is getting harder and harder to obtain permission to recreate.

I like our neighbours in that they have no issue with me or the boys going for a rip across their fields in winter on the snowmbile and in fact almost get upset if we motor on by without stopping in for coffee....or other warm beverage.

Neighbours has a different meaning today... it used to be neighbours and friends were like the same word today neighbour means someone who lives nearby.....

[wildside2014]

Irregardless of the circumstances leading up to the altercation, brandishing a firearm then striking someone while brandishing a firearm is nothing but stupid and I am glad he was charged.
We all know damn well why he had the gun, it was his over the top equalizer.

fully agree. Not saying how the landowner went about it wasn't looney in its own right. Still doesn't take away from the fact the riders are just as moronic

[crownb]

Agreed 100%

If you don't know where you are when you are snowmobiling you shouldn't be snowmobiling.

Your words couldn't be truer!!!! Same as hunting if you don't know the wmu boundaries, of your private land boundaries you shouldn't be hunting either. There are to many ski-dooers who think they have free reign to drive anywhere, the landowner should have never carried a gun he was wrong, but he brought the issue back to the surface again, quit trespassing and the problems are over, simple.

[Deer Hunter]

If he only could have known charges were imminent, he coulda really let the ignorant no good.... townies have er.

Promoting the increasing use of force to settle a misdemeanor incident is crazy talk


Loser townies and thier soft hippy law. ............ Expect anything where humanity/society is concerned to get way worse.

Your suggestions have nothing to do with the bettering of humanity. Unreal.

[jakebrake]

I'm glad that farmer was finally charged he was acting pretty tough with the shotgun in his hand.If I attacked someone like that I would also expect to be charged.

[Kurt505]

You are as bad as the media, if you call an open handed slap ,"pistol whipping". Yes he did assault the idiot that was trespassing, but the other charges are a farce. The shotgun was being carried, but it wasn't even deliberately aimed at the trespassers, lets alone used to assault them. Hopefully at least the trespassers will be charged as well.

Have you ever had a gun pointed in your face? If you had, you would have a much different view of someone assaulting you while armed with a firearm.

I'm not reporting the news, who cares what term I use to describe the altercation, it was some coward arming himself to have a confrontation with unarmed people. It's not like the people were there to rob the place or cause physical harm to the land owner. I'm not saying he was wrong by confronting these guys, but holding a firearm while assaulting someone for trespassing with the intent of snowmobiling is something a guy should get charged for.

What if by chance these snowmobiles were themselves armed and not willing to let some old farmer with a gun intimidate them? All of a sudden the tuff guy confronting people with a gun has just put his own life in jeopardy.

Hopefully both parties involved get charged accordingly. Brandishing a weapon while assaulting someone should be treated as a serious offense, the charge and punishment should reflect the severity of the crime.

[densa44]

This is exactly why the non gun owners want gun control. Grouchy old men carry guns so they can slap other guys doesn't help at all.

This could have turned out way worse, just like when Weibo was still alive.

[CanuckShooter]

Irregardless of the circumstances leading up to the altercation, brandishing a firearm then striking someone while brandishing a firearm is nothing but stupid and I am glad he was charged.
We all know damn well why he had the gun, it was his over the top equalizer.

I agree, having a firearm with him was a bad idea.....it's too bad they cannot settle these childish type of altercations without wasting the time in the courts. $1000 fine for trespassing...$1000 fine for assault.....slap on wrist and don't do it again.

[Sledhead71]

Anyone who assaults someone while carrying a weapon, whether the weapon is used or not should be charged as if it was. Anyone who brings a gun to confront someone on a misdemeanour is an idiot and should spend some serious time behind bars. You, distinguishing between open handed or close handed... Give me a break. Is one more suitable??:snapoutofit:

Do you know how many times during hunting season their is confrontations between sportsmen and women where firearms are present ? You would be surprised I bet, should these people be charged as well because there was a firearm present ?

I support the land owner, there is more to this story and at NO time was the firearm pointed at anyone and used as a threat.. Would it be any different to have a tire iron in hand when face washing a trespasser ?

Some of the crap that happens on deeded land is asinine, I have experienced others telling me the way it is on my land before.... Even had a crane operator play tough guy when I got home and his 100 ton crane and boggy was stuck to the axles in my hay field...

[Kurt505]

Do you know how many times during hunting season their is confrontations between sportsmen and women where firearms are present ? You would be surprised I bet, should these people be charged as well because there was a firearm present ?


That's like saying "do you realize how many people wear swimming trunks in a fight when one breaks out at the pool?".

They (the hunters) aren't bringing a firearm to have a confrontation, and the land owner most likely is bringing a firearm not to intimidate but as a precaution because they know 100% the person they are confronting is armed.

Two totally different scenarios.

Is trespassing with a sled something worth losing a life over? I'm not talking just about the life of the sledders, I'm also talking about the life of the landowner packing a gun to intimidate trespassers. If you pull that stunt on the wrong person, they may not be afraid to pull out their gun and actually use it. Then what? Dead farmer over stupid chit, that's what.

It's only snowmobiling, not worth losing a life over, and I'm sure this farmer will be handling the situation differently next time.

[Deer Hunter]

do you know how many times during hunting season their is confrontations between sportsmen and women where firearms are present ? You would be surprised i bet, should these people be charged as well because there was a firearm present ?

huh? The guy brought out his pistol gripped shotgun because he was hunting? Common...

i support the land owner, there is more to this story and at no time was the firearm pointed at anyone and used as a threat.. Would it be any different to have a tire iron in hand when face washing a trespasser ?

a weapon is a weapon. "assault with a weapon", he was charged. There was no mention of the snowmobilers being charged. Supporting a someone who was charged... Well you can do what you want.

some of the crap that happens on deeded land is asinine, i have experienced others telling me the way it is on my land before.... Even had a crane operator play tough guy when i got home and his 100 ton crane and boggy was stuck to the axles in my hay field...

the "crap" you speak of just doesn't happen to you. Everyone has had a negative experience with other people but that doesn't make it right to pull out a weapon every time someone ****es you off. And to support such is crazy and potentially modeling future generations to shoot first, ask questions later.


bolded

[bison]

Do you know how many times during hunting season their is confrontations between sportsmen and women where firearms are present ? You would be surprised I bet, should these people be charged as well because there was a firearm present ?

I support the land owner, there is more to this story and at NO time was the firearm pointed at anyone and used as a threat.. Would it be any different to have a tire iron in hand when face washing a trespasser ?

Some of the crap that happens on deeded land is asinine, I have experienced others telling me the way it is on my land before.... Even had a crane operator play tough guy when I got home and his 100 ton crane and boggy was stuck to the axles in my hay field...What he says^^
BTDT more than once

[BANG]

I do not know the whole story but i do know if i was tresspassing and was confronted by the land owner i would fully expect him to have a firearm as it would be foolish to approach unknown tresspassers unarmed.

[Deer Hunter]

I do not know the whole story but i do know if i was tresspassing and was confronted by the land owner i would fully expect him to have a firearm as it would be foolish to approach unknown tresspassers unarmed.

Where are we living here? In Iraq?
my god!

[Ken07AOVette]

Would it be any different to have a tire iron in hand when face washing a trespasser ?


I have absolutely no doubt at all that there would never be an accidental death or dismemberment due to a tire iron accidentally going off.

The guy brandishing the tire iron would know with certainty that it is not loaded.

Someone getting the tire iron away from him would never have the risk of pulling the trigger on it and killing himself or someone else.

With a tire iron in hand there is a possibility that he was going to do something crazy like change a tire. A shotgun in the hand is an entirely different purpose.


Yes Margaret, there is a Santa Claus.

oops- sorry,

Yes, there is a HUGE difference.


another one- SWAT would never mistakenly shoot the farmer holding the tire iron when they could not see the trigger lock.


:)

[BANG]

Where are we living here? In Iraq?
my god!

Nope in reality not disney .horrific things happen to good people who felt to secure/confident all the time.

[elkoholik]

What ever happened to the days of use respect and no farmers had any issues with snowmobilers on their property. It is sad how things have changed in that some riders have no respect and damage or leave a mess on others land and that owners of said large parcels of land do not want any sledders within 100 miles. I believe instances like this could definitely be handled differently and both parties could walk away with respect and no altercation had to be had. Let the guys on sleds know that they are not to be on his property, the road was right there, escort them off, take the plate down and/or license(ID) and let them know that if they are caught again then trespassing charges will be filed. As to the "towny" aspect posted earlier, how does one know they were not rural and have been snowmobiling on neighbours property for years. I guess it is because the have newer Klim gear on and riding newer sleds and not out ripping around in Carharts on old sleds?? Come on people I understand this world has gotten out of hand and people do not respect each other but we all have to give our heads a shake, we are in a ever dwindling world and altercations such as these may be on the rise and will end in worse ways. There should be a use respect program for sledders with a number posted to obtain permission and to find out restrictions if any, something like that may go a long way for all parties.

[Sledhead71]

Deer Hunter,

the "crap" you speak of just doesn't happen to you. Everyone has had a negative experience with other people but that doesn't make it right to pull out a weapon every time someone ****es you off. And to support such is crazy and potentially modeling future generations to shoot first, ask questions later

Never once did I say I support shoot first, ask questions later...

I do see the land owners point of view tho, again this weapon was not loaded as the breach was open and he never threatened with pointing it at anyone.

I guess when you find someone in your back yard it would be best to serve them a nice cup of tea and share some cookies so there are no hard feelings right ?

Our world has no consequences for actions of others, this has been discussed to death and yes future generations have been modeled for sense of entitlement no matter if your the one breaking the law...

If someone in the city has repeat issues with others damaging your property, well I am pretty sure when you catch up with them you won't be serving tea and cookies :)

[Mulehahn]

I don't know the full story, but I also don't know a single farmer or rancher who goes out to inspect there fields or live stock without a gun. In the tractor, goes in the rack, on a quad or snowmobile it goes in the boot. Just the way it is. If the gun was in a boot or rack it shouldn't if been taken out, but if the farmer was just riding and it was in his hand then where is the issue? No different then a hunter having an issue with a person while carrying a gun. If the trespassers were within walking distance of the house then they knew exactly where they were, and the farmer would of been well within his rights; for all the talk on here about being able to defend you and yours how was he to know they weren't there to rob him. The farmer should of been charged with simple assault and the snowmobilers should be charged with trespassing.

[coastalhunter]

Where are we living here? In Iraq?
my god!

**** happens. When it does happen, it's usually fast. I'm for the farmer. Sue me.

[Kurt505]

Deer Hunter,


If someone in the city has repeat issues with others damaging your property, well I am pretty sure when you catch up with them you won't be serving tea and cookies :)

Good point, what would the general consensus be if a land owner in the city with people cutting across his yard because he lived on a corner lot so he grabbed his trusty shotgun and started to slap around the perps? You can bet swat would be knocking on his door shortly after. Why does ones geological position make it ok?

[roper1]

Most of us think both sides could have handled it differently but trespass laws in Alberta are very weak. I have a lot of trespass problems & I know in my case if I don't make quite a stink removing the dirt-bikers & the quadders, they & their friends come back. Also anyone passing by thinks my land is open season for fun & games until someone is hurt. Then our so-called common sense is out the window & it becomes my & my insurance companies problem because I wasn't pro-active enough protecting the arse-***** when they were illegally trespassing in the first place. I also had a guy threaten me w a cordless drill with his buddy looking on. It wasn't going to end well for them so they left. So you armchair trespass experts feel free to present me with the solution.

[kevinhits]

I do not know the whole story but i do know if i was tresspassing and was confronted by the land owner i would fully expect him to have a firearm as it would be foolish to approach unknown tresspassers unarmed.

Was just going to say the same thing.....These acreage and farm owners are out of sight and usually the closest neighbour is a mile away...This guy took a precaution....Who knows what these 2 sledders would done to this guy..

Again....be cautious when approaching any individuals on your property...

But slapping the guy was way out of line....All he had to say was this is my land, get off and do not come back, Ya hear:)

[Etownguy]

You, distinguishing between open handed or close handed... Give me a break. Is one more suitable??:snapoutofit:

Actually, I would say the open handed one is preferable. The hand has lots of little bones that are more likely to break in a fist. An open hand allows multiple hits with a much less chance of breakage.

Back to topic now.... :)

[kevinhits]

Actually, I would say the open handed one is preferable. The hand has lots of little bones that are more likely to break in a fist. An open hand allows multiple hits with a much less chance of breakage.

Back to topic now.... :)

LOL...Now that is funny:)

[brother1]

What ever happened to the days of use respect and no farmers had any issues with snowmobilers on their property. It is sad how things have changed in that some riders have no respect and damage or leave a mess on others land and that owners of said large parcels of land do not want any sledders within 100 miles. I believe instances like this could definitely be handled differently and both parties could walk away with respect and no altercation had to be had. Let the guys on sleds know that they are not to be on his property, the road was right there, escort them off, take the plate down and/or license(ID) and let them know that if they are caught again then trespassing charges will be filed. As to the "towny" aspect posted earlier, how does one know they were not rural and have been snowmobiling on neighbours property for years. I guess it is because the have newer Klim gear on and riding newer sleds and not out ripping around in Carharts on old sleds?? Come on people I understand this world has gotten out of hand and people do not respect each other but we all have to give our heads a shake, we are in a ever dwindling world and altercations such as these may be on the rise and will end in worse ways. There should be a use respect program for sledders with a number posted to obtain permission and to find out restrictions if any, something like that may go a long way for all parties.
I grew up sledding and have done so my whole life... and have never run into an issue riding on someone's land. Usually you're just making a track from one side of the field to the next, because you're passing through. No one used to care if you left a track on their fields. The odd time a crop would be left in the field and you'd simply stay off of it...because you have common sense. But I've never heard of getting permission to sled on someone's land. So, every quarter has a different owner and you're supposed to call them or stop into their residence and see if you can ride 1/4 mile across the field? I can see if you're riding like an idiot or causing damage, but driving from point A to point B....this crap is getting ridiculous. We're all gun owners on here, and some of us have common sense...but buddy...next time leave the gun in the truck...you just don't threaten people in Canada with a gun, cause if you do, you're the criminal. You can't even defend your home with a gun here...

[Ken07AOVette]

I do not know the whole story but i do know if i was tresspassing and was confronted by the land owner i would fully expect him to have a firearm as it would be foolish to approach unknown tresspassers unarmed.

What? You snowmobile a lot different places than I do, around here if you pull into a farmers land looking for coffee they offer you cookies and ask if you need gas!

You are expecting an armed response? Welcome to the tinfoil hat club Mr. President!

Maybe you guys should start taking a different approach with strangers.



Was just going to say the same thing.....These acreage and farm owners are out of sight and usually the closest neighbour is a mile away...This guy took a precaution....Who knows what these 2 sledders would done to this guy..

Again....be cautious when approaching any individuals on your property...


Little paranoia there, again if you are expecting something bad to happen and go into the situation prepared for something bad to happen something bad is likely going to happen.

Maybe try a new approach.

Good grief. A whole mile.

You guys must both be city dwellers.

I guarantee I can pull up to any farm in Canada and not be greeted with a gun pointed at me.

Maybe try smiling. A wave. A hearty "good morning!''

[Fredo]

Nope in reality not disney .horrific things happen to good people who felt to secure/confident all the time.

+1

You never know what the other guy is up to, and what he carries in his pocket and in his mind.

[packhuntr]

Some of you here are way out of line. Traspassing, robberies, theft, hunters in season scoping out to steal, thieves pretending to be hunters scoping out farms and equip to steal , strange vehicles up and down rural roads in middle of the night, farm equipment damage in fields, fuel theft, livestock shootings for thrill, equipment shootings for thrill, fences cut, gates left open and livestock out, stackyards and equipment burned to the ground, oilfield equipment damage, shot up stolen etc. where on gods bloody earth should we start and end here. If you fellas only had half a sniff what the .... you were talking about. Keep your stupidity and opinions private if you cant summon up some brains before you talk.

[Fredo]

I guarantee I can pull up to any farm in Canada and not be greeted with a gun pointed at me.

Dangerous assumption, especially with farmers living by crown land, who are getting more and more PO by quadders/sledders/clayshooters.

[dmcbride]

I grew up sledding and have done so my whole life... and have never run into an issue riding on someone's land. Usually you're just making a track from one side of the field to the next, because you're passing through. No one used to care if you left a track on their fields. The odd time a crop would be left in the field and you'd simply stay off of it...because you have common sense. But I've never heard of getting permission to sled on someone's land. So, every quarter has a different owner and you're supposed to call them or stop into their residence and see if you can ride 1/4 mile across the field? I can see if you're riding like an idiot or causing damage, but driving from point A to point B....this crap is getting ridiculous. We're all gun owners on here, and some of us have common sense...but buddy...next time leave the gun in the truck...you just don't threaten people in Canada with a gun, cause if you do, you're the criminal. You can't even defend your home with a gun here...

If you go across my land I will be PO'D. Not that i care about tracks going across my land it is all the tree's that I planted that are just under the snow. I already have about 50 tree's with the tops snapped off because of snowmobilers. If you don't have permission, use the ditch to get from point A to Point B.

Hopefully this year will be different. I put up a cheap single strand fence with no tresspassing signs.

[Ken07AOVette]

Dangerous assumption, especially with farmers living by crown land, who are getting more and more PO by quadders/sledders/clayshooters.

go running up to the farmer like a rampaging bull, fists clenched yelling obsceneties and red faced, yup you are likely correct.

Walk up like a normal person smiling with a civil greeting and a handshake,

see which gets you further.

I have worked for and owned Collection Agencies for close to 30 years now, and in the process of repossession of land, equipment, vehicles, furniture, or while process serving for divorce, litigation, etc, or collecting money from some REAL cranky people....

I have NEVER had a gun pulled on me.

You guys have to stop fantasizing about things, stop sensationalizing stuff, you are not the media, you are just scaring weak minded people like yourselves.

Give it a rest.

I know if you tell yourself the same lie enough times you will start believing it, but your agenda is crooked.

[packhuntr]

If you go across my land I will be PO'D. Not that i care about tracks going across my land it is all the tree's that I planted that are just under the snow. I already have about 50 tree's with the tops snapped off because of snowmobilers. If you don't have permission, use the ditch to get from point A to Point B.

Hopefully this year will be different. I put up a cheap single strand fence with no tresspassing signs.

Nothing wrong with that single strand. Horses normally wont mess with something they cant lift a leg over.... Food for thought for you fellas that think you can go through life doing whatever you want to people where ever you want....

[Ken07AOVette]

If you go across my land I will be PO'D. Not that i care about tracks going across my land it is all the tree's that I planted that are just under the snow. I already have about 50 tree's with the tops snapped off because of snowmobilers. If you don't have permission, use the ditch to get from point A to Point B.

Hopefully this year will be different. I put up a cheap single strand fence with no tresspassing signs.

Good point, and I sympathesize about your trees but would you go running out with a shot gun?

I don't think so.

[kevinhits]

What? You snowmobile a lot different places than I do, around here if you pull into a farmers land looking for coffee they offer you cookies and ask if you need gas!

You are expecting an armed response? Welcome to the tinfoil hat club Mr. President!

Maybe you guys should start taking a different approach with strangers.





Little paranoia there, again if you are expecting something bad to happen and go into the situation prepared for something bad to happen something bad is likely going to happen.

Maybe try a new approach.

Good grief. A whole mile.

You guys must both be city dwellers.

I guarantee I can pull up to any farm in Canada and not be greeted with a gun pointed at me.

Maybe try smiling. A wave. A hearty "good morning!''


yes, Ken...Am a city dweller now but grew up on a farm in Saskatchewan in the 80's...Back then we left doors unlocked, guns out and keys in the truck. Yes, that still happens to some point now, but this is the 21st century and things are way different...That vehicle nowadays approaching up your front road might be your demise....You seem to be a big guy and can handle your own till you meet the wrong person on your land.....

Once again....WE are not living in the 70's or 80's:)

And yes, I can probably drive up to some farmers and they invite me in for a donut and a coffee but that ain't always going to happen...Maybe in your neck of the woods cause you know everyone...

[packhuntr]

go running up to the farmer like a rampaging bull, fists clenched yelling obsceneties and red faced, yup you are likely correct.

Walk up like a normal person smiling with a civil greeting and a handshake,

see which gets you further.

I have worked for and owned Collection Agencies for close to 30 years now, and in the process of repossession of land, equipment, vehicles, furniture, or while process serving for divorce, litigation, etc, or collecting money from some REAL cranky people....

I have NEVER had a gun pulled on me.

You guys have to stop fantasizing about things, stop sensationalizing stuff, you are not the media, you are just scaring weak minded people like yourselves.

Give it a rest.

I know if you tell yourself the same lie enough times you will start believing it, but your agenda is crooked.
Guys like you need to stay in town. Its precisely guys like you that are exactly what is wrong with todays world.

[Ken07AOVette]

Guys like you need to stay in town. Its precisely guys like you that are exactly what is wrong with todays world.

You need to remove your intake from your exhaust.

I get along with everyone, there is no chip on my shoulder like yours.

Not hugged enough as a child?

[packhuntr]

Guess you are out of ammo eh lol. Nice work, and looking great. Pick the losing team on this one there Ken? Sounds like making a living off lowlifes has made you think that stuff is ok, or what?

[Fredo]

go running up to the farmer like a rampaging bull, fists clenched yelling obsceneties and red faced, yup you are likely correct.

Walk up like a normal person smiling with a civil greeting and a handshake,

see which gets you further.

I have worked for and owned Collection Agencies for close to 30 years now, and in the process of repossession of land, equipment, vehicles, furniture, or while process serving for divorce, litigation, etc, or collecting money from some REAL cranky people....

I have NEVER had a gun pulled on me.

You guys have to stop fantasizing about things, stop sensationalizing stuff, you are not the media, you are just scaring weak minded people like yourselves.

Give it a rest.

I know if you tell yourself the same lie enough times you will start believing it, but your agenda is crooked.


There is a huge difference between a guy like you, wearing casual wear and looking friendly, and a group of mud-covered people wearing helmets that rip off your driveway cos it's shorter, man. Not to mention that your average pack of quadder often have several individuals that are drunk or high or both.

One friendly person can be dealt with kindly, the other pack has to be thread lightly.

Referring to people as weak-minded when they don't share your opinion is rude. It exposes your inner intolerance and how opinionated you are, tho. Thanks for showing your true colors.

[Sledhead71]

go running up to the farmer like a rampaging bull, fists clenched yelling obsceneties and red faced, yup you are likely correct.

Walk up like a normal person smiling with a civil greeting and a handshake,

see which gets you further.

I have worked for and owned Collection Agencies for close to 30 years now, and in the process of repossession of land, equipment, vehicles, furniture, or while process serving for divorce, litigation, etc, or collecting money from some REAL cranky people....

I have NEVER had a gun pulled on me.

You guys have to stop fantasizing about things, stop sensationalizing stuff, you are not the media, you are just scaring weak minded people like yourselves.

Give it a rest.

I know if you tell yourself the same lie enough times you will start believing it, but your agenda is crooked.

Ken, these idiots were aggressive from the start, in the wrong and breaking the law period... So there is no fantasizing here or sensationalizing of the facts...

Your collection business is not a fair comparison IMO, try burning some donuts on someone's front lawn before you serve them, bet you start to see a slightly different reaction from the cranky ones :)

[kevinhits]

Good point, and I sympathesize about your trees but would you go running out with a shot gun?

I don't think so.

Once again...Did you see him running out like a crazed lunatic...We carried guns around the farm all the time...Again, I agree with you that the gun should of been in his vehicle and the slap was way out of line....

maybe this farmer lives a few miles out of town and gets this all the time and got frustrated this time....I believe the courts should here both stories and look into the past dealings with this farmer....Great guy, no criminal record etc...Just a lapse in judgement.....

I tend to believe this happens more than you think and just does not hit the news like this story did....I am guessing if the farmer did not slap the guy, this would have been a done issue....This is my opinion and have nothing further to add to this thread....

The last thread was beat to death and now it has been brought up again till it gets locked...Assuming the worst...lol

[fargineyesore]

Some of you here are way out of line. Traspassing, robberies, theft, hunters in season scoping out to steal, thieves pretending to be hunters scoping out farms and equip to steal , strange vehicles up and down rural roads in middle of the night, farm equipment damage in fields, fuel theft, livestock shootings for thrill, equipment shootings for thrill, fences cut, gates left open and livestock out, stackyards and equipment burned to the ground, oilfield equipment damage, shot up stolen etc. where on gods bloody earth should we start and end here. If you fellas only had half a sniff what the .... you were talking about. Keep your stupidity and opinions private if you cant summon up some brains before you talk.
So because some people do some of the things you note, that gives people the right to confront a couple sledders with a gun? I grew up on the country and still live in the country, so I know what I am talking about and I think your attitude is the problem. The last thing we need are a bunch of people wound up like guitar strings because of someone driving across their property with a snowmobile. They were trespassing, but were NOT doing other of the activities you mention above. If you think that a person has a right to confront people with a gun anytime they find someone on their land, maybe you shouldn't have guns period.

[Fredo]

Guess you are out of ammo eh lol. Nice work, and looking great. Pick the losing team on this one there Ken? Sounds like making a living off lowlifes has made you think that stuff is ok, or what?

Ouch this one has to hurt, if you have any sense of honor and pride... Which I doubt you have, when you choose to thrive on other's misery.

[dmcbride]

Good point, and I sympathesize about your trees but would you go running out with a shot gun?

I don't think so.

Depends, if it was an on going issue with the same snowmobilers that know they aren't allowed on the land. From the sounds of the original story this has been an issue for the farmer for a long time. To me the farmer finally caught up with them and brought his shot gun. Which to me really isn't the issue. Like has been said before he didn't actually point the gun or threaten them with the gun. If he didn't hit the snowmobiler the gun would have never been a issue. It will be interesting to see what the courts decide to do.

[Dirt2oil]

I don't know the full story, but I also don't know a single farmer or rancher who goes out to inspect there fields or live stock without a gun. In the tractor, goes in the rack, on a quad or snowmobile it goes in the boot. Just the way it is. If the gun was in a boot or rack it shouldn't if been taken out, but if the farmer was just riding and it was in his hand then where is the issue? No different then a hunter having an issue with a person while carrying a gun. If the trespassers were within walking distance of the house then they knew exactly where they were, and the farmer would of been well within his rights; for all the talk on here about being able to defend you and yours how was he to know they weren't there to rob him. The farmer should of been charged with simple assault and the snowmobilers should be charged with trespassing.

I agree 100%!!! I always check fences and the property with my trusty rifle. This forum people always try to blame the land owner, I'm sick of these city guys complaining about access not being able to hunt then go buy your own damn land!! This guy owns the land and it's how he makes his money to provide for his family when will people get that. They just see land covered in snow and think oh I'm not wrecking anything. Do you have any idea the time and money it takes to prep the fields for seeding in spring? I would love to see the up roar if I ran my tractor across your driveway and your 10x10 front lawn. So when you come out of the city shown respect to the farmers and you will not get served some country justice!! Oh if there was any doubt I'm with the farmer!! Good job for standing up for your property and your rights!!! So now city boys your rebuttal!!!

[wildside2014]

I grew up sledding and have done so my whole life... and have never run into an issue riding on someone's land. Usually you're just making a track from one side of the field to the next, because you're passing through. No one used to care if you left a track on their fields. The odd time a crop would be left in the field and you'd simply stay off of it...because you have common sense. But I've never heard of getting permission to sled on someone's land. So, every quarter has a different owner and you're supposed to call them or stop into their residence and see if you can ride 1/4 mile across the field? I can see if you're riding like an idiot or causing damage, but driving from point A to point B....this crap is getting ridiculous. We're all gun owners on here, and some of us have common sense...but buddy...next time leave the gun in the truck...you just don't threaten people in Canada with a gun, cause if you do, you're the criminal. You can't even defend your home with a gun here...

Yes! that's exactly what youre supposed to do!!!! Just because its an inconvenience to you doesn't mean its ok. Buy your own land and ride all you want.

[Ken07AOVette]

Guess you are out of ammo eh lol. Nice work, and looking great. Pick the losing team on this one there Ken? Sounds like making a living off lowlifes has made you think that stuff is ok, or what?

Losing team? You are the big winner here? You best do a count sport.

Lowlifes?

You think that everyone sent to a Collection Agency is a lowlife???

How arrogant entitled elitist and ignorant, god forbid there may be a dispute in the claim or something needs to be settled, or someone is down on their luck, they are all just lowlifes huh?

Wow. There are some true colors coming out here. Shades of CD.

[Kurt505]

Guys like you need to stay in town. Its precisely guys like you that are exactly what is wrong with todays world.

Lol!!! Have you read your own posts? It's your type that will one day leave a man dead and another in jail for the rest of their life because of something so petty it wouldn't be worth losing the life of a cat over, let alone a human.

All your chest pounding in front of someone that has the same crazy mentality as you do could wind you up in jail or the morgue. Your not the only tough guy with a gun these days.

I would think a guy waving a gun and beating his chest is more of a waste to society than a guy pulling up on a sled expecting a coffee.

[Ken07AOVette]

There is a huge difference between a guy like you, wearing casual wear and looking friendly, and a group of mud-covered people wearing helmets that rip off your driveway cos it's shorter, man. Not to mention that your average pack of quadder often have several individuals that are drunk or high or both.

One friendly person can be dealt with kindly, the other pack has to be thread lightly.

Referring to people as weak-minded when they don't share your opinion is rude. It exposes your inner intolerance and how opinionated you are, tho. Thanks for showing your true colors.

I agree with the drunk and stoned, it is sad to say and see.

second statement, I agree as well.

Third however, I hold my ground, and I am referring to the people that go out and check to see every time someone says the sky is falling.

Weak minded followers jump in line looking for guidance, where stong willed individuals will research and find out the truth. It has nothing to do with not sharing my opinion, I was referring to media sensationalism. Read the entire reply not just pick out words that help your weak argument.

[packhuntr]

So because some people do some of the things you note, that gives people the right to confront a couple sledders with a gun? I grew up on the country and still live in the country, so I know what I am talking about and I think your attitude is the problem. The last thing we need are a bunch of people wound up like guitar strings because of someone driving across their property with a snowmobile. They were trespassing, but were NOT doing other of the activities you mention above. If you think that a person has a right to confront people with a gun anytime they find someone on their land, maybe you shouldn't have guns period.

Slim, there is no opinion stated by me. Merely fact. Like it or not, this stuff os reality. Has nothing to do with who i am or how i conduct my life. However rest assured we are surely nothing more than honest hard working where i come from. With that im pretty confident, if your not lying about being raised rural, that none of your neighbors share your sentiments on the subject.

[kevinhits]

I agree 100%!!! I always check fences and the property with my trusty rifle. This forum people always try to blame the land owner, I'm sick of these city guys complaining about access not being able to hunt then go buy your own damn land!! This guy owns the land and it's how he makes his money to provide for his family when will people get that. They just see land covered in snow and think oh I'm not wrecking anything. Do you have any idea the time and money it takes to prep the fields for seeding in spring? I would love to see the up roar if I ran my tractor across your driveway and your 10x10 front lawn. So when you come out of the city shown respect to the farmers and you will not get served some country justice!! Oh if there was any doubt I'm with the farmer!! Good job for standing up for your property and your rights!!! So now city boys your rebuttal!!!

Finally....We agree on something...LOL

As mentioned earlier, I am a city dweller now but grew up on the farm...

We had our frustrations on our land and it seems anyone that has never grown up on a farm, does not realize what it is like....It seems that city folk usually do not grow up around guns....I advocate for gun rights for the law abiding but do not own one personally...Us city folks now use Sluggers...:bad_boys_20:

[wildside2014]

Slim, there is no opinion stated by me. Merely fact. Like it or not, this stuff os reality. Has nothing to do with who i am or how i conduct my life. However rest assured we are surely nothing more than honest hard working where i come from. With that im pretty confident, if your not lying about being raised rural, that none of your neighbors share your sentiments on the subject.

I don't know if you can mark your statements as fact. Im a landowner and have more actual issues with locals than I do city guys.

[Fredo]

I agree with the drunk and stoned, it is sad to say and see.

second statement, I agree as well.

Third however, I hold my ground, and I am referring to the people that go out and check to see every time someone says the sky is falling.

Weak minded followers jump in line looking for guidance, where stong willed individuals will research and find out the truth. It has nothing to do with not sharing my opinion, I was referring to media sensationalism. Read the entire reply not just pick out words that help your weak argument.

Keep going, mr wannabe attorney.
When you'll be done yapping, try to get your smart followers to understand the meaning of "NO TRESPASSING" signs and teach them what private property means, and that includes not damaging other's land.

[kevinhits]

Losing team? You and Kevin are the big winners here? You best do a count sport.

Lowlifes?

You think that everyone sent to a Collection Agency is a lowlife???

How arrogant entitled elitist and ignorant, god forbid there may be a dispute in the claim or something needs to be settled, or someone is down on their luck, they are all just lowlifes huh?

Wow. There are some true colors coming out here. Shades of CD.

Wow...Use my name in the same post...I never called you a lowlife...Settle down and read before you post...I have been here a long time and respect the work you do...Charity...Always helping the little guy out and doing what you can to make the world a better place....I respect the contribuitions you have made on this forum...Even though I disagree with your stance on this issue, I am not calling you out....:)

[huntsfurfish]

deleted

[Ken07AOVette]

Wow...Use my name in the same post...I never called you a lowlife...Settle down and read before you post...I have been here a long time and respect the work you do...Charity...Always helping the little guy out and doing what you can to make the world a better place....I respect the contribuitions you have made on this forum...Even though I disagree with your stance on this issue, I am not calling you out....:)

My apologies, and that was taken out of context.

I changed my reply, sorry about that.

My intent was never to refer to anyone here as a lowlife, pack did all that.

[packhuntr]

I don't know if you can mark your statements as fact. Im a landowner and have more actual issues with locals than I do city guys.

Hmmm. Sounds like your neighbors have been left to thier own devises for too long. Round here few are newly landed rural. Those that are use thier heads. Most are multi generation. Men dont conduct themselves is such manner. Unacceptable behavior in a man, and some things get dealt with, some personally between men, some are dealt with as a collective community. Rest assured, country folk do not find this stuff funny, any of it.

[wildside2014]

Keep going, mr wannabe attorney.
When you'll be done yapping, try to get your smart followers to understand the meaning of "NO TRESPASSING" signs and teach them what private property means, and that includes not damaging other's land.

he never said the guys were in the right while trespassing. He stated both sides could of handled it differently. Another member brought up why they were there. Regardless as to why they were there, getting mixed up on location does happen. I can promise you that if a landowner came up to me losing his mind id knock his chiclets right out no questions asked.

[Ken07AOVette]

Keep going, mr wannabe attorney.
When you'll be done yapping, try to get your smart followers to understand the meaning of "NO TRESPASSING" signs and teach them what private property means, and that includes not damaging other's land.

LOL HAHA!

It is the people here that are causing the issues?

There's that famous spin again, turn and mix words around to get whatever you can in your favor.

[huntsfurfish]

Anyone who assaults someone while carrying a weapon, whether the weapon is used or not should be charged as if it was. Anyone who brings a gun to confront someone on a misdemeanour is an idiot and should spend some serious time behind bars. You, distinguishing between open handed or close handed... Give me a break. Is one more suitable??:snapoutofit:


This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Fredo]

Anyway:

- Sledders should be charged for trespassing

- Farmer should have left his shotgun in his car, and he won't even have made the news... Media sensationalism at its finest, because there is a gun involved.

[Sledhead71]

Anyway:

- Sledders should be charged for trespassing

- Media sensationalism at its finest, because there is a GoPro involved.

Haha, changed it for you :)

[Ken07AOVette]

Anyway:

- Sledders should be charged for trespassing

- Farmer should have left his shotgun in his car, and he won't even have made the news... Media sensationalism at its finest, because there is a gun involved.

absolutely. I agree

[dmcbride]

he never said the guys were in the right while trespassing. He stated both sides could of handled it differently. Another member brought up why they were there. Regardless as to why they were there, getting mixed up on location does happen. I can promise you that if a landowner came up to me losing his mind id knock his chiclets right out no questions asked.

So if you mix up your location while hunting what happens? I don't know why it is any different for snowmobilers.

It's actually pretty simple, if you don't have permission or it is not crown land it is private property.

[wildside2014]

So if you mix up your location while hunting what happens? I don't know why it is any different for snowmobilers.

It's actually pretty simple, if you don't have permission or it is not crown land it is private property.

Im not arguing that permission should have been granted. It absolutely should in any case. That was my original point. Read my previous posts. Snowmobilers should not have been on his land. With that, farmer had a right to be ticked off. But he handled it improperly. Theres also a certain way a self respecting grown man should conduct himself when approaching people regardless as to whether he was tee'd off or not.

[fargineyesore]

Slim, there is no opinion stated by me. Merely fact. Like it or not, this stuff os reality. Has nothing to do with who i am or how i conduct my life. However rest assured we are surely nothing more than honest hard working where i come from. With that im pretty confident, if your not lying about being raised rural, that none of your neighbors share your sentiments on the subject.
I can assure you that that neither we, nor our neighbors would be confronting someone with a gun because of someone sledding on their property, so your confidence is misplaced. Do not assume that every farmer or rancher shares your view.

[dmcbride]

Im not arguing that permission should have been granted. It absolutely should in any case. That was my original point. Read my previous posts. Snowmobilers should not have been on his land. With that, farmer had a right to be ticked off. But he handled it improperly. Theres also a certain way a self respecting grown man should conduct himself when approaching people regardless as to whether he was tee'd off or not.

I agree with what you are saying. Sadly I think the farmer finally just got fed up and lost his cool.

I don't know why in today's age everybody wants to fix the outcome instead of trying to fix the root of the problem.

[Kurt505]

Good job for standing up for your property and your rights!!! So now city boys your rebuttal!!![/QUOTE]

City boys, I love it. Funny how you never hear the city boys complaining about the country boys being on the land they pay taxes on.

There is a difference between standing up for your rights and acting like a lunatic, some have a hard time realizing this. I have a feeling the farmer will learn this lesson, I'm willing to bet he'll leave the firearm in the truck next time he tries to slap someone. Had he played his cards right, only the trespasses would be dealing with the long arm of the law.

[huntsfurfish]

Dangerous assumption, especially with farmers living by crown land, who are getting more and more PO by quadders/sledders/clayshooters.

Not at all!

[fargineyesore]

Anyway:

- Sledders should be charged for trespassing

- Farmer should have left his shotgun in his car, and he won't even have made the news... Media sensationalism at its finest, because there is a gun involved.
I agree with this, I think it says it all.

[wildside2014]

Hmmm. Sounds like your neighbors have been left to thier own devises for too long. Round here few are newly landed rural. Those that are use thier heads. Most are multi generation. Men dont conduct themselves is such manner. Unacceptable behavior in a man, and some things get dealt with, some personally between men, some are dealt with as a collective community. Rest assured, country folk do not find this stuff funny, any of it.

noooo youd be hard pressed to find newly landed rural folk in wmu 232. Pretty much everyone is multi generation. Problem here is that every guy in the area figures that because he met so and so at the local coffee shop a few times its no problem if he drives the perimiter of one of his quarters every November. ANd I never said anyone thought it was funny. I said a self respecting man doesn't fly off the handle at the drop of a hat. Men don't do that. Napolean complex guys do that until they get cracked one day.

[fargineyesore]

Dangerous assumption, especially with farmers living by crown land, who are getting more and more PO by quadders/sledders/clayshooters.
Too bad, they don't own crown land, so they shouldn't act like they have a say on who goes on it.

[packhuntr]

I can assure you that that neither we, nor our neighbors would be confronting someone with a gun because of someone sledding on their property, so your confidence is misplaced. Do not assume that every farmer or rancher shares your view.

Im not going to argue with you over this. YOU CAN ASSUME that men settled this country and worked multiple generations flat into local cemeteries only to watch fools trod all over the place rewriting laws of the land doing as they please as they go. Do not assume that your opinion of who these men collectively are, as rural weak excuses for men, is accurate, or shared....

[Redfrog]

I didn't realize being stupid is now illegal.:) Finally.:)

[Kurt505]

I didn't realize being stupid is now illegal.:) Finally.:)

It's not, otherwise there would be more charges being handed out. :bad_boys_20:

[wildside2014]

Im not going to argue with you over this. YOU CAN ASSUME that men settled this country and worked multiple generations flat into local cemeteries only to watch fools trod all over the place rewriting laws of the land doing as they please as they go. Do not assume that your opinion of who these men collectively are, as rural weak excuses for men, is accurate, or shared....

pack but youre assuming its not a local problem too. call your local detachment. Ask them how many thefts are conducted by 'townies' and how many are actually perpetrated by locals

[BANG]

What? You snowmobile a lot different places than I do, around here if you pull into a farmers land looking for coffee they offer you cookies and ask if you need gas!

You are expecting an armed response? Welcome to the tinfoil hat club Mr. President!

Maybe you guys should start taking a different approach with strangers.





Little paranoia there, again if you are expecting something bad to happen and go into the situation prepared for something bad to happen something bad is likely going to happen.

Maybe try a new approach.

Good grief. A whole mile.

You guys must both be city dwellers.

I guarantee I can pull up to any farm in Canada and not be greeted with a gun pointed at me.

Maybe try smiling. A wave. A hearty "good morning!''


President ! What a honor.
Im friendly with everyone ken but you are approaching criminals and out numbered its hardly "tin foil hat" to have a way to protect yourself.
I know to many victims of violent crimes and potentialy violent crimes that have been overted by the potential victim having a firearm.
Im not saying go full red neck on them gently cradeling a 12gauge while using a warm calm demenor would be sufficent in most cases im sure.

[casual observer]

What a disgrace to this forum. There is so much stupid in this world and it is advancing at such an alarming rate it is downright scary. The proof of it is on proud display in this one. I see so many posts in this thread that could be quoted by antis to fuel their war on firearms that it is mind boggling. It's no wonder the liberal retards are gaining ground. Based on a few posts here I think a few would fail a PAL screening... And rightfully so

[huntsfurfish]

Hmmm, why were they not charged with trespassing?

[Fredo]

Too bad, they don't own crown land, so they shouldn't act like they have a say on who goes on it.

Usually they don't care about what's going on on crown land unless there is a major issue such as a risk of fire.

But they are annoyed by people that go through their properties, damage gates and fences... to have an easier access on crown land. And remember: if somebody got an accident on your land, you are legally responsible of it...

One of my neighbors was recently into huge trouble because an A-hole trespassed with his quad -after opening the gate!- and injured himself while falling into a
deep ditch. My buddy did provide a nice, clean access to crown land, but it was not straightforward enough for the lazy quadder...

How fair is that? And do you think he received some money when he replaced this spring all his gates by heavy duty locking fences with padlocks?

[Ken07AOVette]

President ! What a honor.
Im friendly with everyone ken but you are approaching criminals and out numbered its hardly "tin foil hat" to have a way to protect yourself.
I know to many victims of violent crimes and potentialy violent crimes that have been overted by the potential victim having a firearm.

Criminals?

But how do you know?

Prejudging also know as prejudiced is the reason many conflicts begin.

Would it not be smarter to remove yourself from the equation if outnumbered by 'criminals'?

I like Mr. Miagi's approach; 'best way win fight not be there.'

Do you live in Chicago???

[BANG]

Is tresspassing not a criminal offence?

[dmcbride]

Is tresspassing not a criminal offence?

X2

[Ken07AOVette]

Is tresspassing not a criminal offence?

Can you prove intent? If they say they did not intend to trespass you can not. 'we were lost, got turned around, etc'

[Redfrog]

Criminals?

But how do you know?

Prejudging also know as prejudiced is the reason many conflicts begin.

Would it not be smarter to remove yourself from the equation if outnumbered by 'criminals'?

I like Mr. Miagi's approach; 'best way win fight not be there.'

Do you live in Chicago???

Chicago has the toughest gun laws in the country and yet they had 60 people shot on the weekend.

[dmcbride]

Can you prove intent? If they say they did not intend to trespass you can not. 'we were lost, got turned around, etc'

Try and explain that to FW officer while hunting and see where it gets you. Or while fishing.

I guess now day's it's all right because everybody is entitled to go onto someones land and plead ignorance.

[Reddin]

I agree with the drunk and stoned,


But how do you know?
Prejudging also know as prejudiced is the reason many conflicts begin.


?

[HunterDave]

I'm not surprised that the landowner got charged but I am surprised that it took so long to charge him. If he had confronted the sledders carrying a gun but not had a physical altercation he would have been okay I think. As soon as he laid a hand on the guy he was done.

I remember from the original story that this wasn't just a case of sledders crossing an open field. According to the article the sledders had buzzed his home and crossed his front lawn. That doesn't make what the landowner did okay but it certainly adds a different perspective to the story.

Around here landowners and sledders get along very well and I've never heard of any problems such as this. There is a lot of grain farming in this area so very little of the land is fenced. Where it is fenced, some landowners leave gates open in the Fall so sledders can cross from one location to another. Where there is an issue where the landowner doesn't want someone on the land (ie sod farms and newly planted trees), they post the land and sledders respect that and stay off of it.

Buzzing someone's house is definitely not okay and I can understand why someone would take an issue with that. To see a couple of sleds crossing a harrowed field 500m away and getting all worked up about it is something entirely different.

[fargineyesore]

Im not going to argue with you over this. YOU CAN ASSUME that men settled this country and worked multiple generations flat into local cemeteries only to watch fools trod all over the place rewriting laws of the land doing as they please as they go. Do not assume that your opinion of who these men collectively are, as rural weak excuses for men, is accurate, or shared....
If you think someone that controls their emotions and doesn't confront someone riding a sled on their land with a gun is weak, then I reiterate my earlier comment. People like you should not have guns. I'm done discussing with you on this subject, because I don't share your extreme view of life and you and I both know we will not agree.

Thanks for the discussion.

[fargineyesore]

Usually they don't care about what's going on on crown land unless there is a major issue such as a risk of fire.

But they are annoyed by people that go through their properties, damage gates and fences... to have an easier access on crown land. And remember: if somebody got an accident on your land, you are legally responsible of it...

One of my neighbors was recently into huge trouble because an A-hole trespassed with his quad -after opening the gate!- and injured himself while falling into a
deep ditch. My buddy did provide a nice, clean access to crown land, but it was not straightforward enough for the lazy quadder...

How fair is that? And do you think he received some money when he replaced this spring all his gates by heavy duty locking fences with padlocks?
Your original post did not talk about people accessing crown land by trespassing through private land. I don't agree with trespassers, but my post about crown land was about people being on CROWN land, not private.

[Fredo]

This thread is turning into OK Corral...
Chill out people.

[Fredo]

Your original post did not talk about people accessing crown land by trespassing through private land. I don't agree with trespassers, but my post about crown land was about people being on CROWN land, not private.

Yup, I was not clear on that one, sorry about that!

[packhuntr]

If you think someone that controls their emotions and doesn't confront someone riding a sled on their land with a gun is weak, then I reiterate my earlier comment. People like you should not have guns. I'm done discussing with you on this subject, because I don't share your extreme view of life and you and I both know we will not agree.

Thanks for the discussion.

Thank YOU for the discussion. Captivating to see what new lows the world can brew up as acceptable. In closing if i may, i ask refrain from exclaiming what you believe or do not believe other law abiding citizens should or should not be allowed to possess as privately and responsibly owned property in the future. Have a good day.

[fargineyesore]

Yup, I was not clear on that one, sorry about that!
No problemo. No one likes trespassing.

[wildside2014]

Thank YOU for the discussion. Captivating to see what new lows the world can brew up as acceptable. In closing if i may, i ask refrain from exclaiming what you believe or do not believe other law abiding citizens should or should not be allowed to possess as privately and responsibly owned property in the future. Have a good day.

lol im not sure how a guy who is man enough to collectively keep it together regardless of emotion is presenting an argument of 'a new low'. Quite the opposite. Its the mighty mouse weasels that lose their cool at the drop of a hat that need as lesson in acting like a grown up.

Maybe just put your big boy pants on regarding this thread and stop taking subtle parting shots at guys that don't share your view of the world?

[fargineyesore]

Thank YOU for the discussion. Captivating to see what new lows the world can brew up as acceptable. In closing if i may, i ask refrain from exclaiming what you believe or do not believe other law abiding citizens should or should not be allowed to possess as privately and responsibly owned property in the future. Have a good day.
Its a free country, so no I will not refrain from stating that I think that people that think it's okay to respond to such incidents with a gun in their hand should not have them.

[albertadeer]

The world is far to overpopulated. Both sides should be executed.... Same with all you he says she says I would you can't they should people.... No need for your kind on this planet....

[pickrel pat]

caught 7 perch this weekend all over 11 inches.

[Kurt505]

caught 7 perch this weekend all over 11 inches.

Trolling?

Or baiting?

[pickrel pat]

Trolling?

Or baiting?

walleye fishing with jig and leech actually.

[Kurt505]

walleye fishing with jig and leech actually.

Huh.

I went to saskatchewan with a 1/2lb tub of leeches, last week, read the regs once I bought my license there, left the Alberta leeches in the cabin. FYI, it's illegal to use Alberta bought leeches in saskatchewan lakes. Needles to say, I got a pile of leeches to use up!

[pickrel pat]

There there.... This has turned into such a nice thread now, good luck to everyone in their future endeavours!!!!

[jungleboy]

When this came through this forum the first time around it went for about 20 pages.
I think it will do it again and with the same results . A lot of blah de blah blah blah and a lot of internet warrior types expounding on all the butt kicking they would have administered if they had been in the same situation

:party0052:

[pickrel pat]

When this came through this forum the first time around it went for about 20 pages.
I think it will do it again and with the same results . A lot of blah de blah blah blah and a lot of internet warrior types expounding on all the butt kicking they would have administered if they had been in the same situation

:party0052:

Yup... Last 3 pages here are just a repeat of page 1..... Even the same posters..lol

[elkhunter11]

What do you base your comment on that the snowmobiler was an idiot? Or just another instance of you judging everyone and everything in your usual demeaning manner?



Agree!

When you are trespassing, and your response to being confronted for doing so, is to burst out swearing at the individual confronting you, I consider you to be an idiot.

[guywiththemule]

Some of you here are way out of line. Traspassing, robberies, theft, hunters in season scoping out to steal, thieves pretending to be hunters scoping out farms and equip to steal , strange vehicles up and down rural roads in middle of the night, farm equipment damage in fields, fuel theft, livestock shootings for thrill, equipment shootings for thrill, fences cut, gates left open and livestock out, stackyards and equipment burned to the ground, oilfield equipment damage, shot up stolen etc. where on gods bloody earth should we start and end here. If you fellas only had half a sniff what the .... you were talking about. Keep your stupidity and opinions private if you cant summon up some brains before you talk.

^^^This !!

[bobalong]

When you are trespassing, and your response to being confronted for doing so, is to burst out swearing at the individual confronting you, I consider you to be an idiot.

Exactly, all trespassing threads on here end up the same. Probably about half the posters trying desperately to defend it (because they themselves do it) and landowners opposing it. Ask yourself what was the original bad act, that could have easily been avoided, and who is always the same person that initiates that bad act.............the trespasser.

Do some people get lost, of course, but there first response should be to apologize and ask for help, not to try and minimize what they have done, or become defensive to a landowner who confronts them. When you have been caught doing something wrong, take your (verbal) and legal licks, and learn from it, but being able to do that, all depends on your character.

I think what many trespassers do not realize is that landowners have been dealing with trespassers for decades, and when they are confronted they are usually not the first person to be caught trespassing, but probably the hundredth, or more if they are in a popular area, that is where the landowner frustration comes from.

[ali#1]

Is tresspassing not a criminal offence?

From what I remember about this story the farmer confronted the snowmobilers on his neighbours land. Unless the neighbour wants to charge them not much the farmer can do.

[elkhunter11]

From what I remember about this story the farmer confronted the snowmobilers on his neighbours land. Unless the neighbour wants to charge them not much the farmer can do.

By the time that he caught up with them, they may have been on a neighbors land, but he went after them, because they trespassed on his land.

From the previous media article.

Deryl Ring, the man who confronted the snowmobilers with a gun that day, is an alpaca farmer who lives in the area. He said the snowmobilers crossed through his land while they were riding, stressing out his prize-winning animals.

So he got in his truck and caught up with them on his neighbour's property to confront them.


So regardless of where the confrontation took place, if they trespassed on his land, he can lay charges.

A quote from one of the snowmobilers, from the same article.

"I got to this one spot and got stuck, got off my sled to start digging myself out," he said. "I turned around and realized there's a house there and I am on some guy's yard."

So it's quite obvious that he knew that he was trespassing, yet when confronted, he chose to respond with aggression, by swearing at the person confronting him. The farmer was already upset, but swearing at him, only escalated the situation , by upsetting him more. Had the trespasser admitted his trespassing, and apologized, he very well may not have been slapped.

To the people that feel that the trespassers are not guilty of anything, let me ask you this.
If you knew that you were trespassing, and you saw someone with a firearm coming to confront you, how would you react? Knowing that you are in the wrong, would you start swearing at the person coming towards you?

[JohninAB]

Exactly, all trespassing threads on here end up the same. Probably about half the posters trying desperately to defend it (because they themselves do it) and landowners opposing it. Ask yourself what was the original bad act, that could have easily been avoided, and who is always the same person that initiates that bad act.............the trespasser.

Do some people get lost, of course, but there first response should be to apologize and ask for help, not to try and minimize what they have done, or become defensive to a landowner who confronts them. When you have been caught doing something wrong, take your (verbal) and legal licks, and learn from it, but being able to do that, all depends on your character.

I think what many trespassers do not realize is that landowners have been dealing with trespassers for decades, and when they are confronted they are usually not the first person to be caught trespassing, but probably the hundredth, or more if they are in a popular area, that is where the landowner frustration comes from.

Issue is that they realized their mistake and were trying to.leave. Farmer blocked them in on his neighbors land and was waiting for them outside his truck with said shotgun. Snowmobilers pull up and stop at which point said farmer walks up and starts kicking the one snowmobile. It was at that point the snowmobiler walked up and asked WTF the farmer was doing in response to the farmer kicking the snowmobile. Farmer's response was to assault the snowmobiler at that time. Think the farmer was the one who escalated it and if it had been my snowmobile he was kicking, said farmer would have been going to hospital to have the shotgun removed from his posterior.

Oh and to try and imply half the respondents trespass because they support the charges against the farmer and will not call the snowmobilers idiots is laughable.

[elkhunter11]

Snowmobilers pull up and stop at which point said farmer walks up and starts kicking the one snowmobile. It was at that point the snowmobiler walked up and asked WTF the farmer was doing in response to the farmer kicking the snowmobile.

I suggest that you watch the initial video again. You can hear the snowmobilers swearing before the farmer even reaches the snowmobile.

[ali#1]

By the time that he caught up with them, they may have been on a neighbors land, but he went after them, because they trespassed on his land.

From the previous media article.



So regardless of where the confrontation took place, if they trespassed on his land, he can lay charges.

A quote from one of the snowmobilers, from the same article.



So it's quite obvious that he knew that he was trespassing, yet when confronted, he chose to respond with aggression, by swearing at the person confronting him. The farmer was already upset, but swearing at him, only escalated the situation , by upsetting him more. Had the trespasser admitted his trespassing, and apologized, he very well may not have been slapped.

To the people that feel that the trespassers are not guilty of anything, let me ask you this.
If you knew that you were trespassing, and you saw someone with a firearm coming to confront you, how would you react? Knowing that you are in the wrong, would you start swearing at the person coming towards you?

He would still have to prove it in court though.

[JohninAB]

Finally was able to watch the video. Sledder swears and holds his arms up in disbelief long before he gets up to the farmer. No way the farmer even heard him. Farmer is standing there holding the shotgun as if he is going to fire it. Not slung over his shoulder, not held in one hand, but a defender style shotgun with his right hand holding the pistol grip and left firmly on the pump. Sledder asks really. No way farmer could have heard him. Farmer kicks the sled and asks the sledder what he said cause he cannot hear him. Sleddder says really again. Farmer starts kicking the guys sled then the other snowmobiler finally get there and appears and asks WTF the farmer is doing. Farmer assaults that snowmobiler.

Sorry, absolutely no sympathy for the farmer.

Now if the farmer was just standing there with the shotgun held in one hand and had not started kicking the guys snowmobile and the sledder came up swearing and such, then yes, I could see the farmer slapping him. Not that it was right to do so, just I could see that.

[expmler]

Finally, I feel much safer now that he may have to pay a couple fines. I haven't been able to leave my house since I saw that video for fear of running into one of these marauding farmers. :scared0015:

[crownb]

:sHa_shakeshout:Finally, I feel much safer now that he may have to pay a couple fines. I haven't been able to leave my house since I saw that video for fear of running into one of these marauding farmers. :scared0015:

:sHa_shakeshout:

[bison]

Finally was able to watch the video. Sledder swears and holds his arms up in disbelief long before he gets up to the farmer. No way the farmer even heard him. Farmer is standing there holding the shotgun as if he is going to fire it. Not slung over his shoulder, not held in one hand, but a defender style shotgun with his right hand holding the pistol grip and left firmly on the pump. Sledder asks really. No way farmer could have heard him. Farmer kicks the sled and asks the sledder what he said cause he cannot hear him. Sleddder says really again. Farmer starts kicking the guys sled then the other snowmobiler finally get there and appears and asks WTF the farmer is doing. Farmer assaults that snowmobiler.

Sorry, absolutely no sympathy for the farmer.

Now if the farmer was just standing there with the shotgun held in one hand and had not started kicking the guys snowmobile and the sledder came up swearing and such, then yes, I could see the farmer slapping him. Not that it was right to do so, just I could see that.
My Dad :snapoutofit: a young cop once for swearing at him,..(calling him a **** farmer).
And that was that,...no charges were laid.
But that was a long time ago when people were supposed to show respect for their elders or face the consequences.

[Ken07AOVette]

Sorry, absolutely no sympathy for the farmer.

This sums it up nicely. You wrote it perfectly.

I have to agree 100%

[silverdoctor]

Wow, it's only 10 am and I feel it's time for popcorn and beer. If this had happened in the US, it probably wouldn't have been a big deal. People will say "but we're not in the US", no we aren't but it goes to show where Canada has gone.

Yes, the farmer approached with a shotgun, he shouldn't have but I understand why he did.

But it goes to show there's not much in Canada for property rights or defense of property, self defense rights, the list goes on and on. There's so much more wrong with this video that what's actually being seen.

[ali#1]

Wow, it's only 10 am and I feel it's time for popcorn and beer. If this had happened in the US, it probably wouldn't have been a big deal. People will say "but we're not in the US", no we aren't but it goes to show where Canada has gone.

Yes, the farmer approached with a shotgun, he shouldn't have but I understand why he did.

But it goes to show there's not much in Canada for property rights or defense of property, self defense rights, the list goes on and on. There's so much more wrong with this video that what's actually being seen.

Was the farmer expecting the sledders to be armed ?

There was no reason to carry unless he suspected the sledders to be carrying.

[Deer Hunter]

Was the farmer expecting the sledders to be armed ?

There was no reason to carry unless he suspected the sledders to be carrying.

You can bet that he wouldn't have been kicking sleds or slapping them around if he didn't have a pistol grip shotgun in one hand.

Or do all people now carry pistol grip shotguns around with them? :thinking-006:

[silverdoctor]

Was the farmer expecting the sledders to be armed ?

There was no reason to carry unless he suspected the sledders to be carrying.

Sledder:
"I got off my sled and in a fairly aggressive tone, said 'what the F are you doing?'" he said.

That can be legally construed as assault in Canada

"At that point, he slaps me in the side of the head. He was very, very upset and you couldn't even reason with him."


Boohoo, he took a slap to the helmet.


What i'm talking about is property rights and defense of such. How many people own land in rural Alberta and do indeed carry...? I understand the situation, he shouldn't have had the shot gun to confront but this day in age, you never know. It's 2 against one here, and it could have ended differently had he not been armed.

[last minute]

Farmer Charged finallly after this winters altercation...

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/deryl-ring-charged-after-altercation-with-snowmobilers-1

I can't say i feel sorry for the farmer.

[silverdoctor]

I can't say i feel sorry for the farmer.

And this is the reason we have no right to defend in this country...

[Ken07AOVette]

Was the farmer expecting the sledders to be armed ?

There was no reason to carry unless he suspected the sledders to be carrying.

I know I never go snowmobiling without a couple Glocks in my armpits :thinking-006:

[JohninAB]

i know i never go snowmobiling without a couple glocks in my armpits :thinking-006:

lol

[Zuludog]

I know I never go snowmobiling without a couple Glocks in my armpits :thinking-006:

Never know when you may have to shot a moose that you chased. :scared0018:

[Stumpjumper]

This sums it up nicely. You wrote it perfectly.

I have to agree 100%

Yes.

People make mistake and sometime get lost or maybe a fence is inder snow or what ever.

They see that and then try to make good by leavin.

The law is not there to punish people that get lost.
Itr is there for people that do thing on purpose or that refuse to leave or are found on YOUR land.

Beside that there is a big diffrence betwean tresspass and threats with a gun.
You can not pull out a gun and start wavin it around every time some guy crosses you.
Good thing to or those guys that like to take my parkin spot at work would be in for a surprise.:sHa_shakeshout:

[Ken07AOVette]

And this is the reason we have no right to defend in this country...

http://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/222x139/80-null_zps9952434d_759ef390f26f48637ae6fcae8a4aa9fc6 683f8f1.gif

[Zuludog]

Never know when you may have to shot a moose that you chased. :scared0018:

Gets me thinking though. If you're a moose and you kick someones sled they shoot you. Maybe the farmer was right in carrying the shot gun?? :)

In all seriousness this seems pretty straight forward.

People need to grow the heck up.

1. Stay off of land that's not yours unless you have permission.

To the guy who said then he'd need permission from the owner of every 1/4. No kidding!! Goes along with if it's not your leave it alone & sure as heck don't steal it. Goes for stands, blinds, trail cams etc. It's called having decency & respect.

2. As Ken alluded too & goes hand in hand with treating people with decency & respect. If you inadvertently wind up on somewhere you shouldn't be. Be polite smile & explain the situation. Mistakes happen. you could also back track, so that you're off of where you shouldn't be ASAP. Or walk to the farm house and knock on the door and explain that you got turned around & ASK to cross his land.

3. LEAVE the guns at home when confronting people.
If the landowner was scared his best defense was to NOT go into a situation where he's out numbered & there is a perceived threat. His bringing a shogun turned a possible polite encounter into a very potentially deadly confrontation. Very least leave it in the truck.

I feel for land owners. The stories that I hear on here year after year turn my stomach. I go above and beyond when on others land and only leave boot prints & a gut pile if the owner is okay with it. I would be utterly ashamed if I was a tress passing, fence cutting, littering poacher type.

I don't know if the problem is townies or local but the problem is selfishness. I wouldn't want my yard or quarter section or even crown land abused so I don't do it to others land (or public land). I have no idea why others seem to think its okay to do so? We definitely need way stiffer penalties for tress passing & poaching as well in this country. I also hope that responsible, ethical & respectful outdoors man can provide positive peer pressure & set examples to lead the way for change. The more socially unacceptable these behaviors become hopefully the less they occur. I know that is a long term & even somewhat naive approach but it is something that we can do to start making a change, albeit a slow one.

[silverdoctor]

I know I never go snowmobiling without a couple Glocks in my armpits :thinking-006:

And homeowners never get threatened by trespasser do they? Mens Rea can't be proven, maybe they were lost, maybe they knew what they were doing.

If it's not crown, stay off it. How is that so hard for people to understand? A homeowner shouldn't have to put up signs that say "no trespassing".


We've never heard stories in Canada about a homeowner getting assaulted or beaten have we? Snowmobilers must be all law abiding citizens?

[nekred]

And homeowners never get threatened by trespasser do they? Mens Rea can't be proven, maybe they were lost, maybe they knew what they were doing.

If it's not crown, stay off it. How is that so hard for people to understand? A homeowner shouldn't have to put up signs that say "no trespassing".


We've never heard stories in Canada about a homeowner getting assaulted or beaten have we? Snowmobilers must be all law abiding citizens?

Trespassing is not a mens rhea offense..... don't need to prove intent

[silverdoctor]

Trespassing is not a mens rhea offense..... don't need to prove intent

I know that.

By mens rea, I meant what is the intent of someone trespassing, maybe they did mean harm - maybe they didn't. Some in this forum fully believe that the peeps on sleds were lost, maybe they were, maybe they were just jerks out for a ride. Either way they showed no respect.

61 year old man, 2 against 1, IMO, the shotgun was an equalizer. I firmly believe in defense of property and self, nobody got shot.


Look at the other threads on self defense, chests puffed out and people saying that they would have no issue shooting an intruder. How do we define intruder? Someone that enters your property - be it locked door of your house - to entering your land without permission. That is an intruder.

[Ken07AOVette]

And homeowners never get threatened by trespasser do they? Mens Rea can't be proven, maybe they were lost, maybe they knew what they were doing.

If it's not crown, stay off it. How is that so hard for people to understand? A homeowner shouldn't have to put up signs that say "no trespassing".


We've never heard stories in Canada about a homeowner getting assaulted or beaten have we? Snowmobilers must be all law abiding citizens?

Trespassing is not a mens rhea offense..... don't need to prove intent

I know that.

By mens rea, I meant what is the intent of someone trespassing, maybe they did mean harm - maybe they didn't. Some in this forum fully believe that the peeps on sleds were lost, maybe they were, maybe they were just jerks out for a ride. Either way they showed no respect.
61 year old man, 2 against 1, IMO, the shotgun was an equalizer. I firmly believe in defense of property and self, nobody got shot.
Look at the other threads on self defense, chests puffed out and people saying that they would have no issue shooting an intruder. How do we define intruder? Someone that enters your property - be it locked door of your house - to entering your land without permission. That is an intruder.

And if it was a 15 year old girl and a 61 year old woman? Is he still right to carry the shotgun? The chests would have been puffed out for sure if it was women. :)

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/janlvtt/Smileys/bkpdl.gif

[igorot]

I think in every law there is limitation and exemption. There is no harm in reading before acting as ignorance of the law excuses no one. When in doubt call 911 or call the authority concern to change the law.:)

[silverdoctor]

And if it was a 15 year old girl and a 61 year old woman? Is he still right to carry the shotgun? The chests would have been puffed out for sure if it was women.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/janlvtt/Smileys/bkpdl.gif

But it wasnt a woman or a kid was it Ken. It was a 61 year old man in a situation where he's confronting 2 grown men on sleds and idiots to boot. I suspect if he wasn't armed, the situation would be different, probably reading about a 61 year old man pressing assault charges.

[Ken07AOVette]

But it wasnt a woman or a kid was it Ken. It was a 61 year old man in a situation where he's confronting 2 grown men on sleds and idiots to boot. I suspect if he wasn't armed, the situation would be different, probably reading about a 61 year old man pressing assault charges.

Did he know that when he drove out to approach them whilst brandishing a defender shotgun?

Intent has been established.

He sure showed them.

[silverdoctor]

Did he know that when he drove out to approach them whilst brandishing a defender shotgun?

Intent has been established.

He sure showed them.

And i'm sure had it been a woman or a child, the gun would have stayed in the truck... You can clearly see his truck not far away.

Something tells me this isn't the first rodeo for these sledders.

You are clearly giving these trespassers a free pass?

[Sledhead71]

I know that.

By mens rea, I meant what is the intent of someone trespassing, maybe they did mean harm - maybe they didn't. Some in this forum fully believe that the peeps on sleds were lost, maybe they were, maybe they were just jerks out for a ride. Either way they showed no respect.

61 year old man, 2 against 1, IMO, the shotgun was an equalizer. I firmly believe in defense of property and self, nobody got shot.


Look at the other threads on self defense, chests puffed out and people saying that they would have no issue shooting an intruder. How do we define intruder? Someone that enters your property - be it locked door of your house - to entering your land without permission. That is an intruder.

Forget discussing home invasion, try theft of sporting goods like trail cams, blinds and tree stands left on CROWN land and see how members react... Majority of these threads most support a good old butt kicking and state they will take the law into their own hands....

Or discuss when you find someone in your yard after being frustrated with repeat offences to your property and life style.... We all know how law enforcement reacts to petty crime, they don't put much effort into it...

Heck, some ice a cat in the city for taking a crap in your lovely flower beds :)

This situation had the makings of a perfect storm....

[Kurt505]

I know that.

By mens rea, I meant what is the intent of someone trespassing, maybe they did mean harm - maybe they didn't. Some in this forum fully believe that the peeps on sleds were lost, maybe they were, maybe they were just jerks out for a ride. Either way they showed no respect.

61 year old man, 2 against 1, IMO, the shotgun was an equalizer. I firmly believe in defense of property and self, nobody got shot.


Look at the other threads on self defense, chests puffed out and people saying that they would have no issue shooting an intruder. How do we define intruder? Someone that enters your property - be it locked door of your house - to entering your land without permission. That is an intruder.

As a person who both lives in the city and also a land owner who has experienced trespassers, also have had my rural property broken into and had some possessions stolen and damaged not more than 2 months ago, I can understand the farmers frustration.

Several years ago while driving home from a hunting trip with two other friends, we had a couple guys pull into the lane next to us and roll down their window. In all honesty I thought they needed help so I asked my friend to roll down his window to see what was up. That's when the lunatic pulled a shotgun out and started screaming something, the muzzle was almost inside the cab of our truck. Things get real, real quick. 3 guys, 6 guns, but not one of us were willing to get into a gunfight in the middle of the highway with a guy who looked like he had no problem pulling the trigger. All you guys saying I'll pack a gun to ward off trespassers might want to think twice, unless of course you have no problem killing a man, or being killed because the guy your confronting has no problem pulling the trigger. All of a sudden, because of something petty, your kids have no father and your wife is a widow. Now what tough guy?

To this day we still don't know what set this guy off, but I'll tell you what, once the feeling of anger and wanting to get a hold of the sob when he didn't have a shotgun to defend himself subsided, a clear and level minded person realizes not shooting him that night was the right decision.

My father always told me "If your going to bring a weapon into a fight, you better damn well be ready to use it, because the other guy just might". I think it's advice some people on this thread should take.

[greylynx]

Would farm harrows left upside down in a field hurt a snowmobile?

I don't know...just wondering.

[silverdoctor]

Forget discussing home invasion, try theft of sporting goods like trail cams, blinds and tree stands left on CROWN land and see how members react... Majority of these threads most support a good old butt kicking and state they will take the law into their own hands....

Or discuss when you find someone in your yard after being frustrated with repeat offences to your property and life style.... We all know how law enforcement reacts to petty crime, they don't put much effort into it...

Heck, some ice a cat in the city for taking a crap in your lovely flower beds :)

This situation had the makings of a perfect storm....

all good points...

[silverdoctor]

Would farm harrows left upside down in a field hurt a snowmobile?

I don't know...just wondering.

In Canada, if you can prove criminal intent, you'll probably be charged.

Had a discussion on this a while ago on AO about having guard dogs on the property. If you open the door and sic a dog on an intruder, that's criminal. If an intruder jumps the fence and lands in the dogs jaws, boohoo.

[Sledhead71]

Would farm harrows left upside down in a field hurt a snowmobile?

I don't know...just wondering.

Land owner would be charged for intentionally deploying hazards to inflict personal injury or cause damage to others property.. This has been discussed and the intent to cause damage or injury would be clear.

[bison]

Did he know that when he drove out to approach them whilst brandishing a defender shotgun?

Intent has been established.

He sure showed them.
Would it have been OK if he had carried a tire iron or a crowbar or a shovel?

[Ken07AOVette]

Would it have been OK if he had carried a tire iron or a crowbar or a shovel?

Lot less chance of accidental discharge with a tire iron. The range is far less too for collateral damage.

[silverdoctor]

You know things are gone south when the government has to legislate a victims bill of rights...


http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2014/04/03/overview-canadian-victims-bill-rights

The Victims Bill of Rights Act proposes to define a victim of crime as any individual who has suffered physical or emotional harm, property damage, or economic loss as a result of an offence committed under the Criminal Code, the Youth Criminal Justice Act, the Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes Act, and also applies to some offences under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act and the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.00


But yet, gawd love em, the onus is still on the victim...

[pickrel pat]

And in the end they are both dbags........ the farmer was just the dumber dbag.

[HunterDave]

If you knew that you were trespassing, and you saw someone with a firearm coming to confront you, how would you react? Knowing that you are in the wrong, would you start swearing at the person coming towards you?

I'm not sure and I don't want to sound like an internet tough guy, but it would all depend on his body language and where the muzzle was pointed. If I thought for a second that he was ready to shoot me, my automatic reaction would have been to close the distance as quickly as possible and mow him down with my sled. I'm a retire Military guy though.

[bison]

Lot less chance of accidental discharge with a tire iron. The range is far less too for collateral damage.Well if he was close enough to slap the guy with his hand i guess he would've been within range for the iron as well eh ;)

[Ken07AOVette]

Well if he was close enough to slap the guy with his hand i guess he would've been within range for the iron as well eh ;)

Lol yup!

He might even get away with it as long as it wasn't one of those 'black tire irons'

[pikeslayer22]

Land owner would be charged for intentionally deploying hazards to inflict personal injury or cause damage to others property.. This has been discussed and the intent to cause damage or injury would be clear.
Not if proper signage is up, ie: No Tresspassing/Enter at own risk

[ali#1]

I know I never go snowmobiling without a couple Glocks in my armpits :thinking-006:

Some people are just plain paranoid an afraid of their own shadow.

[silverdoctor]

Not if proper signage is up, ie: No Tresspassing/Enter at own risk

Don't need proper signage. What if every home in an urban center were required to put up signage saying stay out?

How many threads do we have on AO of people looking for crown land or homeowner maps? The onus is on the idividual to find out if land is private or crown. If unsure, stay the hell off it.

[ren008]

CC. 247. (1) Every one is guilty of an indictable
offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term
not exceeding five years, who with intent to
cause death or bodily harm to a person, whether
ascertained or not,
(a) sets or places a trap, device or other
thing that is likely to cause death or bodily
harm to a person; or
(b) being in occupation or possession of a
place, knowingly permits such a trap, device
or other thing to remain in that place.

DO NOT SET TRAPS. Marked or not, the law is clear.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/atv-run-in-with-barbed-wire-leads-to-charges-1.1173363

[dmcbride]

CC. 247. (1) Every one is guilty of an indictable
offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term
not exceeding five years, who with intent to
cause death or bodily harm to a person, whether
ascertained or not,
(a) sets or places a trap, device or other
thing that is likely to cause death or bodily
harm to a person; or
(b) being in occupation or possession of a
place, knowingly permits such a trap, device
or other thing to remain in that place.

DO NOT SET TRAPS. Marked or not, the law is clear.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/atv-run-in-with-barbed-wire-leads-to-charges-1.1173363

Who said my upside down harrows was a trap. I just don't like them sinking into the ground. If someone doesn't like it don't come on my property.:sHa_shakeshout:

[ren008]

Who said my upside down harrows was a trap. I just don't like them sinking into the ground. If someone doesn't like it don't come on my property.:sHa_shakeshout:

Of course. But the investigating officers or judge may not buy it. Especially if the landowner has a history of difficulty dealing with tresspassers and the traps are set at common access points or along trails, as they would have to be to be effective.

These are serious charges a person would be facing, particularly if someone actually got killed/injured as a result.

[expmler]

Don't need proper signage. What if every home in an urban center were required to put up signage saying stay out?

How many threads do we have on AO of people looking for crown land or homeowner maps? The onus is on the idividual to find out if land is private or crown. If unsure, stay the hell off it.

Not the way it works here. Rural property needs signs, urban property is exempt.

That is the frustration of the farmer, the onus is on him to go through the time an expense to fence or otherwise post the land.

[CanuckShooter]

I'm not sure and I don't want to sound like an internet tough guy, but it would all depend on his body language and where the muzzle was pointed. If I thought for a second that he was ready to shoot me, my automatic reaction would have been to close the distance as quickly as possible and mow him down with my sled. I'm a retire Military guy though.


Steven Segal would have a throwing knife handy for those situations....:thinking-006: Chuck Norris would just poke him in both eyes....

[dmcbride]

Of course. But the investigating officers or judge may not buy it. Especially if the landowner has a history of difficulty dealing with tresspassers and the traps are set at common access points or along trails, as they would have to be to be effective.

These are serious charges a person would be facing, particularly if someone actually got killed/injured as a result.

I hear what you are saying. :) (history of difficulty dealing with tresspassers)

Farmers leave farming equipment everywhere. If someone happens to hit it on a snowmobile because it was covered in snow on private property I don't see how it would be the farmers fault. I see farming equipment left in fields all the time for the winter.

Pretty sad now days that people have to take measures to make sure tresspassers don't injure them selves.:mad0030:

[silverdoctor]

Not the way it works here. Rural property needs signs, urban property is exempt.

That is the frustration of the farmer, the onus is on him to go through the time an expense to fence or otherwise post the land.

Oh BS.

Snowmobile act:

25(1) No person shall operate a snowmobile over any privately owned land, whether enclosed or not, without the consent of the owner or occupant of the land .

[Ken07AOVette]

Some people are just plain paranoid an afraid of their own shadow.

I know! I just have never understood that.

Mind you, I was not beaten or abused as a child, I did not come from a broken home, I was not cuddled too much or not enough, I did not have nightmares after watching friday the 13th......

And I don't live in a high crime area! On purpose! :sHa_shakeshout:

Surely I have missed some......

[silverdoctor]

I know! I just have never understood that.

Mind you, I was not beaten or abused as a child, I did not come from a broken home, I was not cuddled too much or not enough, I did not have nightmares after watching friday the 13th......

And I don't live in a high crime area! On purpose! :sHa_shakeshout:

Surely I have missed some......

Try facing a home invasion some time, i'm sure your mind will change. Or do you have a gun at the ready in case?

[expmler]

Oh BS.

Snowmobile act:

25(1) No person shall operate a snowmobile over any privately owned land, whether enclosed or not, without the consent of the owner or occupant of the land .

Snowmobile act:

25(2) Subsection 1 does not apply in respect of any private land outside of a city, town, village or hamlet unless there are signs at least 30 centimeters in length and 25 centimeters in width prominently placed at each corner of the land and at intervals not exceeding 800 meters along the boundaries of the land bearing the words "SNOWMOBILES PROHIBITED" "NO TRESPASSING" or words or symbols to a like effect.

[Ken07AOVette]

Try facing a home invasion some time, i'm sure your mind will change. Or do you have a gun at the ready in case?

Seriously?

What about a Tornado? Got a bunker?
What if the Russians launch? Got a tank?
What if China attacks? Got a bubble?
What if africanized killer bees find a way in? Got a case of raid?
What if a Jetliner falls out of the sky? Got a steel framed house?
What if the sky falls? Made your peace with the almighty?
What if the apocolypse happens? see above
What if your wife goes nuts? Got restraints?
What if your daughter grabs a steak knife because you ground her? Got a tazer?
What if the Zombies attack? Got 55,000 rnds of .223 zombie ammo?
What if the USA decides to take over? Got a mig?
What if the Government is overthrown? Got a tunnel under the house to the USA?
What if there is a flood? Famine? Swarm of frogs? Drought? Got a boat? Arena full of food? Got birds to eat the frogs? Got a 10,000,000L underground storage tank?

How many tinfoil hats do you put on daily?

I pity you, living a life of fear. I really do feel for you if it happened, and it explains the paranoia.

[Ken07AOVette]

Snowmobile act:

25(2) Subsection 1 does not apply in respect of any private land outside of a city, town, village or hamlet unless there are signs at least 30 centimeters in length and 25 centimeters in width prominently placed at each corner of the land and at intervals not exceeding 800 meters along the boundaries of the land bearing the words "SNOWMOBILES PROHIBITED" "NO TRESPASSING" or words or symbols to a like effect.

But he left that part out in purpose! You are hurting his argument!!! :angry3:

[wildside2014]

Snowmobile act:

25(2) Subsection 1 does not apply in respect of any private land outside of a city, town, village or hamlet unless there are signs at least 30 centimeters in length and 25 centimeters in width prominently placed at each corner of the land and at intervals not exceeding 800 meters along the boundaries of the land bearing the words "SNOWMOBILES PROHIBITED" "NO TRESPASSING" or words or symbols to a like effect.

I would put money down that if goofball 'A' drove through my property without permission and slammed into one of my fences that NOTHING would happen to me.

[silverdoctor]

Seriously?

What about a Tornado? Got a bunker?
What if the Russians launch? Got a tank?
What if China attacks? Got a bubble?
What if africanized killer bees find a way in? Got a case of raid?
What if a Jetliner falls out of the sky? Got a steel framed house?
What if the sky falls? Made your peace with the almighty?
What if the apocolypse happens? see above
What if your wife goes nuts? Got restraints?
What if your daughter grabs a steak knife because you ground her? Got a tazer?
What if the Zombies attack? Got 55,000 rnds of .223 zombie ammo?
What if the USA decides to take over? Got a mig?
What if the Government is overthrown? Got a tunnel under the house to the USA?
What if there is a flood? Famine? Swarm of frogs? Drought? Got a boat? Arena full of food? Got birds to eat the frogs? Got a 10,000,000L underground storage tank?

How many tinfoil hats do you put on daily?

I pity you, living a life of fear. I really do feel for you if it happened, and it explains the paranoia.

Wow, sanctimonious comes to mind... Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back Ken.


I don't live in fear, never have.

I don't own a gun, have a PAL/POL/RPAL.

I do support gun ownership and the rights of self defense and defense of property. That is what this thread is all about.

[expmler]

I would put money down that if goofball 'A' drove through my property without permission and slammed into one of my fences that NOTHING would happen to me.

You are correct, that law does not make you liable for anything that happens.

It does allow them to drive on your land unless you post it.

[Kurt505]

Wow, sanctimonious comes to mind... Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back Ken.


I don't live in fear, never have.

I don't own a gun, have a PAL/POL/RPAL.

I do support gun ownership and the rights of self defense and defense of property. That is what this thread is all about.

This thread is about two idiots trespassing who come across an even bigger idiot, who happens to be trespassing himself at the time of their meeting.

[silverdoctor]

Snowmobile act:

25(2) Subsection 1 does not apply in respect of any private land outside of a city, town, village or hamlet unless there are signs at least 30 centimeters in length and 25 centimeters in width prominently placed at each corner of the land and at intervals not exceeding 800 meters along the boundaries of the land bearing the words "SNOWMOBILES PROHIBITED" "NO TRESPASSING" or words or symbols to a like effect.


I stand corrected...

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/acts/p11.pdf


Prohibition
2
(1)
Every person who
a) without the permission of the owner or occupier of land
enters on land when entry is prohibited under section 2.1,
or
(b) does not leave land immediately after he or she is directed
to do so by the owner or occupier of the land or a person
authorized by the owner or occupier
is guilty of an offence.
(2)
A person who is guilty of an offence under subsection (1),
whether or not any damage is caused by the contravention, is liable
(a) for a first offence, to
a fine not exceeding $2000, and
(b) for a 2nd or subsequent offence in relation to the same
land, to a fine not exceeding $5000.
(3)
It is a defence to a charge under subsection (2) for the accused
to establish that the accused had a right or authority conferred by
law to be on the land.
(4)
There is a presumption that access for lawful purposes to the
door of a building on land by a pathway apparently provided for
the purpose of access is not a trespass.
RSA 2000 cP-11 s2; 2003 c41 s2
Notice
2.1
(1)
Entry on land may be prohibited by notice to that effect,
and entry is prohibited without any notice on land
(a) that is a lawn, garden or land that is under cultivation,
(b) that is surrounded by a
fence, a natural boundary or a
combination of a fence and a natural boundary, or
(c) that is enclosed in a manne
r that indicates the owner’s or
occupier’s intention to keep persons off the land or to
keep animals on the land.
(2)
For the purposes of subsection (1), notice may be given
(a) orally,
(b) in writing, or
(c) by posters or signboards visibly displayed
(i) at all places where normal access is obtained to the
land, and
2.1
(1)
Entry on land may be prohibited by notice to that effect,
and entry is prohibited without any notice on land
(a) that is a lawn, garden or land that is under cultivation,
(b) that is surrounded by a
fence, a natural boundary or a
combination of a fence and a natural boundary, or
(c) that is enclosed in a manne
r that indicates the owner’s or
occupier’s intention to keep persons off the land or to
keep animals on the land.
(2)
For the purposes of subsection (1), notice may be given
(a) orally,
(b) in writing, or
(c) by posters or signboards visibly displayed
(i) at all places where normal access is obtained to the
land, and
(ii) at all fence corners or,
if there is no fence, at each
corner of the land.

[kevinhits]

This thread is going now where fast.....Everyone has an opinion and are stuck on there stance.....Going back and forth is tiresome....Get out and enjoy the day and stop sitting on the keyboard all the time....Some people have to sit back on the computer chair and say" What am I doing replying to this thread". Let it go and move on....Who cares what anyone thinks! Do you have to keep bashing it out over and over? Hell no...Are we going to get 20 pages like the last one 6 months ago.....And yes, it is ironic that I am replying but I let this go yesterday, went out fishing, took the kids to the beach and back tonight thinking this would of been locked by now...

Boy, was I wrong. but never expected any less..LOL

Flame away cause someone will have something negative to say:)

[expmler]

But he left that part out in purpose! You are hurting his argument!!! :angry3:

Facts tend to do that. :)

[silverdoctor]

Facts tend to do that. :)

Look up

[Deer Hunter]

I do support gun ownership and the rights of self defense and defense of property. That is what this thread is all about.

To you that's what this thread could be about.

To others it's assault with a weapon. As charged. As in the headline- post 1.

I personally don't like to align my ability to own a gun with supporting criminals... not that he has been convicted.

Nor align my ability to protect myself/family with a gun toting criminal chasing a non-threat all over the country side... not that he has been convicted.

I really do think there are people out there, who own guns, who are looking out their windows looking for a reason to use them. These people, to me, are much more dangerous than a snowmobiler ever could be.

[expmler]

Look up

Like I said the law is different here in SASK, which is where it took place.

Did you not see section 25(2) when you said I was full of it?

[wildside2014]

You are correct, that law does not make you liable for anything that happens.

It does allow them to drive on your land unless you post it.

Maybe in saskatchewan, but not here. I can charge you all day long for riding on my
Land without posting anything

[guywiththemule]

Wow, sanctimonious comes to mind... Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back Ken.


I don't live in fear, never have.

I don't own a gun, have a PAL/POL/RPAL.

I do support gun ownership and the rights of self defense and defense of property. That is what this thread is all about.
"Sanctimonious". Very good word. I like it !! :sHa_shakeshout:

[beltburner]

the only reason the farmer didn't get his ass beat is because the guy had a go pro going and thought going this route would be more interesting. this was definetly the best choice,

[roper1]

Or maybe ' the only reason the farmer didn't get his ass beat' was because he was packing. He shouldn't have been packing but you should NEVER say something that stupid. Your ATTITUDE is the reason the old guy was on the fight in the first place.

[pickrel pat]

Your ATTITUDE is the reason the old guy was on the fight in the first place.

No. He was "on the fight" long before that. He left his property to go to a neighbours to cut them off with a gun. Lol. I think he brought the fight.

[BeeGuy]

This thread is about two idiots trespassing who come across an even bigger idiot, who happens to be trespassing himself at the time of their meeting.

More or less my opinion.

I have sympathy for the plight of some landowners, but seriously, you gotta use your head.

This goes beyond the issue of trespass.

[roper1]

No. He was "on the fight" long before that. He left his property to go to a neighbours to cut them off with a gun. Lol. I think he brought the fight.

Pat, he was on the fight because this was not the first trespass incident he has had to deal with. It is the former poster's attitude that we get to deal with repeatedly that gets us on the fight. I have never taken any kind of weapon whatsoever when asking people to leave my land for obvious reasons but I am legally & financially responsible if someone gets hurt on my land. I want to pass this land onto the next generation, not sell it to keep some trespasser on a ventilator for 20 years cause he flipped his dirt bike into my creek.

[fish gunner]

Petty trespass vs assault not much of comparison.

[bison]

Petty trespass vs assault not much of comparison.It's only petty to the trespasser.
How would you react if people would repeatedly come play/bike/whatever in your backyard.
I once caught a bunch of people red handed cutting rails on my land, when i confronted them they got ornery,..all 10 or so of them surrounded me(couple women too). 2 of them had chain saws.
I grabbed an axe from my truck and stood my ground,i ordered them to leave and i promised the first one that had the nerve to come a step closer to split his skull.
There were some tense moments but in the end the women defused the situation and persuaded everyone to leave.
You can be sure i wished i had a rifle with me that time.

Call the cops.. ha.. they's at least an hr away,..that is if they can find the place:rolleye2:

[fish gunner]

It's only petty to the trespasser.
How would you react if people would repeatedly come play/bike/whatever in your backyard.
I once caught a bunch of people red handed cutting rails on my land, when i confronted them they got ornery,..all 10 or so of them surrounded me(couple women too). 2 of them had chain saws.
I grabbed an axe from my truck and stood my ground,i ordered them to leave and i promised the first one that had the nerve to come a step closer to split his skull.
There were some tense moments but in the end the women defused the situation and persuaded everyone to leave.
You can be sure i wished i had a rifle with me that time.

Call the cops.. ha.. they's at least an hr away,..that is if they can find the place:rolleye2:

I get where your coming from . I have issue with dealing with those of no ill intent as "criminals" im the last fan of ohv, sled use , unless as pure transport. However winter ground as in the case in hand . Tought to call trespass after the fact on a buddies land.

[elkhunter11]

Tought to call trespass after the fact on a buddies land.


So if you see someone trespassing on your land, but they make it to some else's land before they are apprehended, it isn't trespassing.:rolleye2:

[ali#1]

So if you see someone trespassing on your land, but they make it to some else's land before they are apprehended, it isn't trespassing.:rolleye2:

By the law not unless you have overwhelming evidence to prove it was them.

[6.5swedeforelk]

By the law not unless you have overwhelming evidence to prove it was them.

Those two inch-paddle camoplast tracks leave a distinctive trail, terminating directly under the machine of the trespasser!

I say damn the snowmobilers with their entitled, irresponsible attitude.

The farmer also needs to rein in his attitude.

I know the definition of assult, but what's the intent of an open-handed slap to an approved helmet?
More of a "pay attention", I'd venture.

[igorot]

I know the definition of assult, but what's the intent of an open-handed slap to an approved helmet?
More of a "pay attention", I'd venture.

Hahaha try doing that to those bikers. Hey they have an approved helmet and I'm doing it on open palm.:snapoutofit:

[6.5swedeforelk]

Hahaha try doing that to those bikers. Hey they have an approved helmet and I'm doing it on open palm.:snapoutofit:

Exactly... you've justified his approach with more than cookies & hot chocolate.

Thank you!

[beltburner]

Or maybe ' the only reason the farmer didn't get his ass beat' was because he was packing. He shouldn't have been packing but you should NEVER say something that stupid. Your ATTITUDE is the reason the old guy was on the fight in the first place.

The farmer is lucky he didn't get shot! How many sledders pack a gun? Lots do and I know this for a fact. He deserves being charged for plain stupidity. This isn't the wild west.

[Moosejuice]

Wow, sanctimonious comes to mind... Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back Ken.


I don't live in fear, never have.

I don't own a gun, have a PAL/POL/RPAL.

I do support gun ownership and the rights of self defense and defense of property. That is what this thread is all about.

And what exactly was the threat to himself or his property that he needed to defend himself and it from?

The guys had left, remember?

[Kanonfodder]

Let the courts sort it out

Closed