Public Schools .....lose it again

[Winch101]

Again the crossover ,church and state , turns to crap . This mother and
Daughter are to be congratulated . You give those thumpers an inch
And they move right in ....

If this type of rhetoric meets the Education Standard of the Edmonton
School board . Then welcome to the Deep South of Alberta .
Welcome back Bible Bill Aberhart .


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/teen-mother-launch-complaint-against-abstinence-based-sex-ed-1.2703535

[dumoulin]

...she likely forgot she signed a permission form at the begining of the term which delineated what was taught.

Not to derail the hread but what gets me is any Tom, Dick or Henry can indiscriminantly file a complaint through HRC which is FULLY funded by tax payers. Meanwhile, the other party has to file it's own case through their own means.

[Rockman]

Or how about they not teach sex ed at school and let us parents do our job and teach our own kids, and in our own way and with the freedoms and responsibilities we choose and believe to be appropriate and moral. There's an idea.

In the end, it's one person's opinion over another, parent over bureaucrat or bureaucrat over parent. Let parents be parents.

[SBE2]

Or how about they not teach sex ed at school and let us parents do our job and teach our own kids, and in our own way and with the freedoms and responsibilities we choose and believe to be appropriate and moral. There's an idea.

In the end, it's one person's opinion over another, parent over bureaucrat or bureaucrat over parent. Let parents be parents.

That is a novel idea, and likely the way it should be. Unfortunately, there are far too many parents who have proven to be very useless and or uncomfortable and incapable of properly raising a child, which is likely how this came about. Just my 2 cents...

[Ryry4]

Or how about they not teach sex ed at school and let us parents do our job and teach our own kids, and in our own way and with the freedoms and responsibilities we choose and believe to be appropriate and moral. There's an idea.

In the end, it's one person's opinion over another, parent over bureaucrat or bureaucrat over parent. Let parents be parents.

Teaching kids right from wrong at home? That would mean parents would actually have to parent their kids, can't have that nowadays.

I like this quote:
“Basically shaming the girls and making them gatekeepers and meanwhile making it sound like the boys had no impulse control,” she said.

I've been a teenage boy and have been around them. This statement is 100% true.

[hillbillyreefer]

But you guys forget the State and it's indoctrinators are co-parents.

Ontario education official says teachers are ‘co-parents’

WATERLOO, Ontario, March 2, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The recent case where the father of a pre-kindergarten student was arrested, strip searched and told he was being charged with illegal possession of a firearm because his daughter had drawn a picture of a gun, was perfectly acceptable because educators are “co-parents,” a school official in Waterloo told an interviewer from Sun News.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ontario-education-official-says-teachers-are-co-parents

[dumoulin]

But you guys forget the State and it's indoctrinators are co-parents.

Ontario education official says teachers are ‘co-parents’

WATERLOO, Ontario, March 2, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The recent case where the father of a pre-kindergarten student was arrested, strip searched and told he was being charged with illegal possession of a firearm because his daughter had drawn a picture of a gun, was perfectly acceptable because educators are “co-parents,” a school official in Waterloo told an interviewer from Sun News.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ontario-education-official-says-teachers-are-co-parents

The Alberta School Act also adopted "in loco parentis". See link below
http://www.teachers.ab.ca/Publications/Other%20Publications/Teachers%20%20Rights%20Responsibilities%20and%20Le gal%20Liabilities/Pages/Chapter%203.aspx

Parents can have their child opt out of the sex ed portion of health class (for any reason), most don't. The program of study and other curriculums like Alberta Healths' prescribe specifically what to teach and how to teach it. It's up to the teacher to deliver that component effectively, fairly and without bias.

[dumoulin]

Teaching kids right from wrong at home? That would mean parents would actually have to parent their kids, can't have that nowadays.

I like this quote:
“Basically shaming the girls and making them gatekeepers and meanwhile making it sound like the boys had no impulse control,” she said.

I've been a teenage boy and have been around them. This statement is 100% true.

I somewhat agree. I think, however, more boys could taught to be "gatekeepers" themselves. That's what I teach my son.

[NEWB]

That is a novel idea, and likely the way it should be. Unfortunately, there are far too many parents who have proven to be very useless and or uncomfortable and incapable of properly raising a child, which is likely how this came about. Just my 2 cents...

Nailed it.

The could be the next great thing on the Jerry Springer show!

I nominate the mom, her daughter and the sex Ed Facilitators on the first show.

This would be worth watching!

:party0052: :cheers:

[riden]

"Kathy Dawson says she tried to pull her daughter Emily out of the class for the second day. But she says the school informed her that Emily had to take the class in order to pass her course. "
-------------

I call BS.

A few years ago, AB passed Bill 101 which gives parents the right to remove their child from classes like this, with no academic penalty. Every teacher and administrator knows this and is well aware of potential results. (I "suspect" that is why they didn't discuss lesbians, it wasn't in the permission slip....but I speculate). I don't care that she signed the permission slip, she could change her mind if she wants. She is is control here, the law says so.

Pretending the preceding wasn't Alberta law, it is a two day lecture from an outside source, what percentage would it be worth on the final grade....likely 0%. Pretty hard to grade outside sources, you don't know exactly what they will present and you can't control quality of teaching. The validity of grading students based on this is suspect, and I highly doubt the teacher would.

She claims it is fundamentalist Christian perspective, even though they didn't mention God or religion. C'mon, get real.


She sat in on her 17 year old daughter's class, wow. I bet that wasn't embarrassing at all for the girl. :)

[Ryry4]

I somewhat agree. I think, however, more boys could taught to be "gatekeepers" themselves. That's what I teach my son.

I agree 100%.

[CanuckShooter]

"Kathy Dawson says she tried to pull her daughter Emily out of the class for the second day. But she says the school informed her that Emily had to take the class in order to pass her course. "
-------------

I call BS.

A few years ago, AB passed Bill 101 which gives parents the right to remove their child from classes like this, with no academic penalty. Every teacher and administrator knows this and is well aware of potential results. (I "suspect" that is why they didn't discuss lesbians, it wasn't in the permission slip....but I speculate). I don't care that she signed the permission slip, she could change her mind if she wants. She is is control here, the law says so.

Pretending the preceding wasn't Alberta law, it is a two day lecture from an outside source, what percentage would it be worth on the final grade....likely 0%. Pretty hard to grade outside sources, you don't know exactly what they will present and you can't control quality of teaching. The validity of grading students based on this is suspect, and I highly doubt the teacher would.

She claims it is fundamentalist Christian perspective, even though they didn't mention God or religion. C'mon, get real.


She sat in on her 17 year old daughter's class, wow. I bet that wasn't embarrassing at all for the girl. :)


Just wanted her 15 minutes of fame most likely. I wonder how she polices what her daughter learns in the girls washrooms? Some people have such unrealistic ideas on how much they can influence their kids it's unreal.

[BeeGuy]

Good to see people challenging the school board.

Good to see a single mom who is engaged in, and critical of her child's education.

Good to see the church getting a swift boot.

Good to see mom teaching her child that she can effect change in the government.

[dumoulin]

Good to see people challenging the school board.

Good to see a single mom who is engaged in, and critical of her child's education.

Good to see the church getting a swift boot.

Good to see mom teaching her child that she can effect change in the government.

...at who's cost?

[BeeGuy]

...at who's cost?

How many people do you know that could front the cost of challenging the government? It is a ridiculous comment.

We are fortunate to live in a country with such avenues.

The cost is negligible compared to the value of what we gain.

The christian church in this country doesnt exactly have a great record when it comes to sex ed and minors.

They can disguise their ideology, but good parents see through it.

[canadiantdi]

How many people do you know that could front the cost of challenging the government? It is a ridiculous comment.

We are fortunate to live in a country with such avenues.

The cost is negligible compared to the value of what we gain.

The christian church in this country doesnt exactly have a great record when it comes to sex ed and minors.

They can disguise their ideology, but good parents see through it.

I am assuming you mean Catholic Church? Shuffling priests around etc

[BeeGuy]

I am assuming you mean Catholic Church? Shuffling priests around etc

I think you get my point. Your example notes some of the worst issues, but these are not limited to the catholic church in Canada, other christian churches have have this unfortunate distinction as well.

The main point, is that religion, and its ideologies have no place in our class rooms, and especially not in sex education.

[Mistagin]

How many people do you know that could front the cost of challenging the government? It is a ridiculous comment.

We are fortunate to live in a country with such avenues.

The cost is negligible compared to the value of what we gain.

The christian church in this country doesnt exactly have a great record when it comes to sex ed and minors.

They can disguise their ideology, but good parents see through it.

You are painting with a pretty broad brush there fella.
And I'm offended at your insinuation (again).
Your hatred is showing through again.

Maybe it's time for my 2nd ever report to the mods.

[BeeGuy]

You are painting with a pretty broad brush there fella.
And I'm offended at your insinuation (again).
Your hatred is showing through again.

Maybe it's time for my 2nd ever report to the mods.

The relationship between the church and schools in this country is well documented.

There is no hatred needed to acknowledge historical facts.

[BeeGuy]

Were you equally offended when we stopped saying Our Father in public school?

[canadiantdi]

I think you get my point. Your example notes some of the worst issues, but these are not limited to the catholic church in Canada, other christian churches have have this unfortunate distinction as well.

The main point, is that religion, and its ideologies have no place in our class rooms, and especially not in sex education.

Yes, there were/are atrocities, but I really don't think that any "Christian based" sex ed class is promoting them or anything bad.

Promoting abstinence as the best way hardly seems inappropriate. But I do think that kids need to be taught about protection if they do decide to go for it.

[Redfrog]

"The christian church in this country doesnt exactly have a great record when it comes to sex ed and minors.

They can disguise their ideology, but good parents see through it."

Good to see you left out Muslims and gov't worker bees.Salesmen and librarians. Etc.Etc.:thinking-006:

[BeeGuy]

Yes, there were/are atrocities, but I really don't think that any "Christian based" sex ed class is promoting them or anything bad.

Promoting abstinence as the best way hardly seems inappropriate. But I do think that kids need to be taught about protection if they do decide to go for it.

They have no business whatsoever promoting anything.

It hardly seems inappropriate if it aligns with your personal belief system...

Belief systems have no place in the curriculum, except in the context of delineating them in social science/history/religion classes.

[BeeGuy]

"The christian church in this country doesnt exactly have a great record when it comes to sex ed and minors.

They can disguise their ideology, but good parents see through it."

Good to see you left out Muslims and gov't worker bees.Salesmen and librarians. Etc.Etc.:thinking-006:

How many Muslims were involved in this case?

How many librarians?

How many gov't worker bees aside from the ones approving the curriculum?


But, but, but...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Railway_turnout_-_Oulu_Finland.jpg

[canadiantdi]

It hardly seems inappropriate if it aligns with your personal belief system...

I can't see many parent's NOT wanting their kids to abstain from sex. It doesn't always involve a belief in God.

[Redfrog]

How many Muslims were involved in this case?

How many librarians?

How many gov't worker bees aside from the ones approving the curriculum?


But, but, but...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Railway_turnout_-_Oulu_Finland.jpg

Sorry I didn't realize you meant your staement as a derail.:thinking-006:

I get it now. Clutter the thread until none of it is pertinent. Great stategy. Except here.:)

[Mistagin]

Just read this:http://globalnews.ca/news/1446189/edmonton-principals-being-told-to-abstain-from-using-pregnancy-care-centre-for-sex-ed/

Well I guess it is par for the course of 'modern' secular society - let's limit teaching and instruction to just what secular society wants to hear, and let's not allow any person of faith to do any of it. I guess we can't trust teens to receive information from various perspectives and allow them to process and learn from it all; better to just give them the liberal, secularist, humanistic perspective. :rolleye2:.

Yup, sounds like a great 'new world' we're creating :thinking-006:

Just the kind of world BeeGuy and his ilk want.

Should I, and my fellow people of faith, just head to the concentration camp now? (NOTE: this comment is intended to be read at least partly as sarcasm)

[pikergolf]

Not sure how religion got dragged into this, abstinence is the surest way to avoid pregnancy and STD. Just one of many options, no?:thinking-017:

[dumoulin]

How many people do you know that could front the cost of challenging the government? It is a ridiculous comment.

We are fortunate to live in a country with such avenues.

The cost is negligible compared to the value of what we gain.

The christian church in this country doesnt exactly have a great record when it comes to sex ed and minors.

They can disguise their ideology, but good parents see through it.

What the Halifax are you talking about??? I'm not sure why you included Catholics???

At any rate, all tax payers fund the Human Rights Comission. Therefore, we find her right to go after whomever she wants despite her intentions or the validity of her cause. Don't you think it would been wiser to confront the teacher, then the principal if necessary? I'm guessing she didnt get what she wanted and then went to the board where told her to buzz off.

She had every right to pull her child out without any issues, but, like always, there's likely much more to the story than mediated.

Anyhow, if parents want to engage the education system, they should as it is their right and duty to do so. That in mind, lobbying and forming pressure groups are the way to go. Using the HRC is a major waist of resources. They have much bigger fish to fry.

On one hand we have a tendency to bash whiners. Rightfully so. She is not exercising her rights to petition nor teaching her daughter to do so. She showing her how to complain without about the mistakes she made.

When I teach Theme V (sex ed), I stick to relationships and focus on what abuse looks like. Abtanance, mechanics, pictures of STIs ...most kids google that in privacy and know a heck of a lot more than we did as kids. That said, kids can't always recognize abusive relationships or what the work should expect of them. For that reason, I stick to relationships and the role they can play to become a better person and role model ; "a hero in a relationship" as I call it.

[dumoulin]

Not sure how religion got dragged into this, abstinence is the surest way to avoid pregnancy and STD. Just one of many options, no?:thinking-017:

BTW there are no more STDs...the new term is STI. Go figure?!?

[Mackinaw]

Mack

[Mackinaw]

How many people do you know that could front the cost of challenging the government? It is a ridiculous comment.

We are fortunate to live in a country with such avenues.

The cost is negligible compared to the value of what we gain.

The christian church in this country doesnt exactly have a great record when it comes to sex ed and minors.

They can disguise their ideology, but good parents see through it.

:




You are painting with a pretty broad brush there fella.
And I'm offended at your insinuation (again).
Your hatred is showing through again.

Maybe it's time for my 2nd ever report to the mods.


I don't always agree with Beeguys posts but I see no problem
With this post
I think you should save your second ever report for something
Worth complaining about


Mack

[Okotokian]

BTW there are no more STDs...the new term is STI. Go figure?!?
Disease sounded too serious... sort of a buzz kill. Infection sounds much nicer, not such a big deal. ;)

[Mistagin]

:







I don't always agree with Beeguys posts but I see no problem
With this post
I think you should save your second ever report for something
Worth complaining about


Mack

BG has a history of denigrating Christians and the church (which has many branches and adherents). With his broad brush he insinuates that Christians and especially clergy, of which I am one - and he knows that, are child abusers and predators. He's done so before, and I'm sure will do so again.

Here's the rule I'm reminding him of:
Do not place any material on the message board that could be considered offensive to other users, or unlawful.

I find his insinuations offensive, as should any reasonable person, and therefore should not be part of public dialogue. I am a man of some intelligence (my academic degrees affirm that), and of integrity, and anymore I refuse to 'stand down' when someone attacks me, my faith, my 'career', and my God.

[Okotokian]

How many people do you know that could front the cost of challenging the government? It is a ridiculous comment.

We are fortunate to live in a country with such avenues.

The cost is negligible compared to the value of what we gain.



Well the cost is negligible for the complainant. The cost can be prohibitive for the party that has to hire a lawyer to defend themselves and fend off the Human Rights Commission.

Personally, I'd get rid of the board and just have people go before a judge. You can sue and be awarded costs IF your claim is just. But if you want to keep the current Kangaroo Court process, then the Board should have to cover reasonable legal costs for those accused.

[BeeGuy]

BG has a history of denigrating Christians and the church (which has many branches and adherents). With his broad brush he insinuates that Christians and especially clergy, of which I am one - and he knows that, are child abusers and predators. He's done so before, and I'm sure will do so again.

Here's the rule I'm reminding him of:
Do not place any material on the message board that could be considered offensive to other users, or unlawful.

I find his insinuations offensive, as should any reasonable person, and therefore should not be part of public dialogue. I am a man of some intelligence (my academic degrees affirm that), and of integrity, and anymore I refuse to 'stand down' when someone attacks me, my faith, my 'career', and my God.

I'm not trying to attack you at all. None of my comments were directed towards you personally. Nor did I recall that you are a cleric.

If you see where I stated a fact and was in error, I will happily retract it.

[Sneeze]

Ha, single mother wants to create more single mothers.

I am sure the guys are just lining up to take mom on a date.

Did any of you Pinkos take 5 minutes to check out what the Pregnancy Care Centre is? These folks to are trying to do a good job taking on a big lousy job.

[Winch101]

IM not offended in the least and I am a former man of the cloth in
The only true church . 2000 yrs of Christianity and they still can't do
What they do best . And bending peoples will is not one of their
Talents.
Suffice to say we shall see how this comes out . I hope Ezra
Doesn't have to straighten these people out as well.

Pax Vobiscum

[Mistagin]

I'm not trying to attack you at all. None of my comments were directed towards you personally. Nor did I recall that you are a cleric.

If you see where I stated a fact and was in error, I will happily retract it.

PM incoming

[ali#1]

If the church wants to do sex ed let them do it in the catholic school system.

Abstinence is proven the worst thing to teach kids, people are born with a few instincts. Staying alive is the most important and breeding is the second. Teaching abstinence instead of protection leads to more pregnancies and std's.

[riden]

The National Post did a much better job reporting this than CBC.

At no time was God mentioned, Jesus mentioned or any religion mentioned. Mom believes they are "Fundamentalist" Christian values because she believes the morals they are teaching line up with "Fundamentalist" Christian values. Not because they taught actually Christian values.

I'm the first to agree that the church has no place in the classroom, but by Mom's own admission, the church was not in the classroom. Mom just equates them with "Fundamentalist" values.

I don't believe one word that comes out of this woman's mouth.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/07/11/robyn-urback-if-you-want-to-learn-abstinence-go-to-church-get-christian-sex-ed-out-of-secular-public-schools/

[silverdoctor]

None of you had the fire and brimstone talk about sex when you were in high school? Went to a catholic school back in Newfie from K to 12, many nuns taught us. I still remember one sister slamming the yardstick on the desk screaming "keep it in your pants"! Still remember one brave voice in the room "but I have to pee"!.

Didn't work, and Billy Joel was wrong too. Catholic girls didn't start much too late.

[riden]

Just read this:http://globalnews.ca/news/1446189/edmonton-principals-being-told-to-abstain-from-using-pregnancy-care-centre-for-sex-ed/

Well I guess it is par for the course of 'modern' secular society - let's limit teaching and instruction to just what secular society wants to hear, and let's not allow any person of faith to do any of it. I guess we can't trust teens to receive information from various perspectives and allow them to process and learn from it all; better to just give them the liberal, secularist, humanistic perspective. :rolleye2:.

Yup, sounds like a great 'new world' we're creating :thinking-006:

Just the kind of world BeeGuy and his ilk want.

Should I, and my fellow people of faith, just head to the concentration camp now? (NOTE: this comment is intended to be read at least partly as sarcasm)

From this article: "Moving forward, she also wants parents to be told about all guest speakers and have the option to opt out."

What is she talking about? She admits she signed a permission slip.

I think this woman just likes the limelight.

[canadiantdi]

If the church wants to do sex ed let them do it in the catholic school system.

Abstinence is proven the worst thing to teach kids, people are born with a few instincts. Staying alive is the most important and breeding is the second. Teaching abstinence instead of protection leads to more pregnancies and std's.

Maybe abstinence or nothing would be a bad idea.

They should still receive the truth though, that waiting is the safest route... regardless if it lines up with Christian, or any other type of Fundamentalism.

[Winch101]

I'm not sure worser is a word

The Huff post has the best version of what happened here . I am finding
This less credible all the time , I particularly like the Huffs version of
The class subject matter ... Warning some strong language


http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/07/11/sex-ed-edmonton-schools-religious_n_5578565.html

[Mackinaw]

BG has a history of denigrating Christians and the church (which has many branches and adherents). With his broad brush he insinuates that Christians and especially clergy, of which I am one - and he knows that, are child abusers and predators. He's done so before, and I'm sure will do so again.

Here's the rule I'm reminding him of:
Do not place any material on the message board that could be considered offensive to other users, or unlawful.

I find his insinuations offensive, as should any reasonable person, and therefore should not be part of public dialogue. I am a man of some intelligence (my academic degrees affirm that), and of integrity, and anymore I refuse to 'stand down' when someone attacks me, my faith, my 'career', and my God.


What is it that offends you most what he wrote or the fact that what he wrote
Is true? I don't believe he is insinuating anything he is stating facts that are in most part common knowlege. I don't think any of his comment were a direct attack on you ,your faith,your career or your God. Different people are offended by different things to some you talking about your god on an open forum could be offencive. I would suggest if you find Beeguys posts not to your liking then put him on ignore or don't read them.


Mack

[ali#1]

Maybe abstinence or nothing would be a bad idea.

They should still receive the truth though, that waiting is the safest route... regardless if it lines up with Christian, or any other type of Fundamentalism.

Agreed.

Religion shouldn't have any say in such matters.

[beltburner]

It's funny how people get all bent out of shape because a group uses the bibles instruction/advice to try and teach young people how not to screw up their lives. Did they start reading passages from the bible or threatening the kids with fire and brimstone? No. Anyone with any common sense has to see the benefit in not having sex at a young age. And yes this has to be pointed towards girls more because teen boys for the most part will not be the "gatekeepers" as sex doesn't for most of them cause the emotional turmoil that it does for girls.

[ali#1]

It's funny how people get all bent out of shape because a group uses the bibles instruction/advice to try and teach young people how not to screw up their lives. Did they start reading passages from the bible or threatening the kids with fire and brimstone? No. Anyone with any common sense has to see the benefit in not having sex at a young age. And yes this has to be pointed towards girls more because teen boys for the most part will not be the "gatekeepers" as sex doesn't for most of them cause the emotional turmoil that it does for girls.

It's definitely the girls faults, boys just can't control themselves.

[beltburner]

It's definitely the girls faults, boys just can't control themselves.

If you think that an extremely high percent of boys won't take the chance of having sex because they feel it might cause future problems for the girl involved; then you must live in a different world than me.
I didn't say this was "right" but it is the way things are in our society right now.

[sns2]

Well, so far I have heard from the church bashers that come out any time the word Christian is mentioned. Funny thing is they have their underwear in a knot over something they know nothing of, except for some disgruntled parent.

First off, let me say that I am a Christian man. Go to church every Sunday. Have for over 20 years.

Second, I am the only person on this forum that can speak with first hand knowledge of this group, as I have had them to two different schools to give their presentation. Why have I done so? Because they do an exceptional job of teaching about personal sexuality. I had different speakers for each presentation. The school I currently teach at has approximately a 20% muslim population. Trust me if there was even a hint of proselytizing we would have heard about it. The students thought it was excellent, the eight (or so) other teachers who were present with me in our gymnasium thought it was very balanced and conveyed realistic information to the students about the emotional effects of having sex at a young age, the dangers of unprotected sex, effectiveness (or lack thereof) for the various types of birth control available, and uncovering the myths surrounding teenage sexuality. In fact, I made a point of asking all of them their opinion, and they all thought it was a fantastic presentation that should be shown in all schools. By the way, not one of these teachers have any religious affiliation. In short, this group does a very good job, and at no point do they bring religion of any sort into the picture. Further, they do not charge schools for this service, so no need for some of you dudes to say that your tax dollars are funding a Christian organization.

This lady certainly has a right to make her complaint, we live in a free society, but I'd bet a boatload of money on this coming to naught. Why? Because, as the school board has already said, this organization does a good job of dealing with a topic that kids need to hear, and that often comes across better from a stranger, than the classroom teacher who often has to rag on these kids from day to day.

In the end, common sense, and the provincial curriculum, advocate that abstinence is still the only truly effective form of birth control, 13 year olds shouldn't be having sex anyhow as they are not emotionally ready, and that there are way more diseases floating around today that are with you for life, than we had to deal with in the 70s and 80s.

PS: Some of you guys need to get off your hobby horses about bashing Christianity. It doesn't really bother me much, but you come off as idiots. Do any of the Christians start threads bashing you as atheists? Doubtful.

[ali#1]

If you think that an extremely high percent of boys won't take the chance of having sex because they feel it might cause future problems for the girl involved; then you must live in a different world than me.
I didn't say this was "right" but it is the way things are in our society right now.

Muslims think the same thing. Blame the victim for exposing too much skin and tempting boys, I have a daughter and a wife and mother.

[score]

The kid's parent would have had to have signed a consent form and if she could have opted out without reprisal of any kind.

IMO our schools are a cess pool of multicultural liberalism of the worst kind. Dare not say anything, think anything, do anything, etc., etc., etc. that WILL offend someone. God, the flag, the National Anthem, Christmas, and much more,...........poof.. and no one gives a ****.

Serious degradation starts there and it is so out of control now that I really don't believe it can be stopped and will be getting far worse yet.

I am no longer optimistic unfortunately. The best I can do for my child's future is to maintain a good relationship with him and talk to him, while trying to heal the claw marks that he receives while at school every day.

[canadiantdi]

Well, so far I have heard from the church bashers that come out any time the word Christian is mentioned. Funny thing is they have their underwear in a knot over something they know nothing of, except for some disgruntled parent.

First off, let me say that I am a Christian man. Go to church every Sunday. Have for over 20 years.

Second, I am the only person on this forum that can speak with first hand knowledge of this group, as I have had them to two different schools to give their presentation. Why have I done so? Because they do an exceptional job of teaching about personal sexuality. I had different speakers for each presentation. The school I currently teach at has approximately a 20% muslim population. Trust me if there was even a hint of proselytizing we would have heard about it. The students thought it was excellent, the eight (or so) other teachers who were present with me in our gymnasium thought it was very balanced and conveyed realistic information to the students about the emotional effects of having sex at a young age, the dangers of unprotected sex, effectiveness (or lack thereof) for the various types of birth control available, and uncovering the myths surrounding teenage sexuality. In fact, I made a point of asking all of them their opinion, and they all thought it was a fantastic presentation that should be shown in all schools. By the way, not one of these teachers have any religious affiliation. In short, this group does a very good job, and at no point do they bring religion of any sort into the picture. Further, they do not charge schools for this service, so no need for some of you dudes to say that your tax dollars are funding a Christian organization.

This lady certainly has a right to make her complaint, we live in a free society, but I'd bet a boatload of money on this coming to naught. Why? Because, as the school board has already said, this organization does a good job of dealing with a topic that kids need to hear, and that often comes across better from a stranger, than the classroom teacher who often has to rag on these kids from day to day.

In the end, common sense, and the provincial curriculum, advocate that abstinence is still the only truly effective form of birth control, 13 year olds shouldn't be having sex anyhow as they are not emotionally ready, and that there are way more diseases floating around today that are with you for life, than we had to deal with in the 70s and 80s.

PS: Some of you guys need to get off your hobby horses about bashing Christianity. It doesn't really bother me much, but you come off as idiots. Do any of the Christians start threads bashing you as atheists? Doubtful.

Thanks for this

[score]

No one was phased by the lesbian comment in the least, but screw God right........everything is just fine :rolleye2:

[Mackinaw]

Well, so far I have heard from the church bashers thachristian t any time the word Christian is mentioned. Funny thing is they have their underwear in a knot over something they know nothing of, except for some disgruntled parent.

First off, let me say that I am a Christian man. Go to church every Sunday. Have form over 20 years.

Second, I am the only person on this forum that can speak with first hand knowledge of this group, as I have had them to two different schools to give their presentation. Why have I done so? Because they do an exceptional job of teaching about personal sexuality. I had different speakers for each presentation. The school I currently teach at has approximately a 20% muslim population. Trust me if there was eveqqn a hint of proselytizing we would have heard about it. The students thought it was excellent, the eight (or so) other teachers who were present with me in our gymnasium thought it was very balanced and conveyed realistic information to the students about the emotional effects of having sex at a young ate at your, the dangers of unprotected sex, effectiveness (or lack thereof) for the various types of birth control available, and uncovering the myths surrounding teenage sexuality. In fact, I made a point of asking all of them their opinion, and they all thought it was a fantastic presentation that should be shown in all schools. By the way, not one of these teachers have any religious affiliation. In short, this group does a very good job, and at no point do they bring religion of any sort into the picture. Further, they do not charge schools for this service, so no need for some of you dudes to say that your tax dollars are funding a Christian organization.

This lady certainly has a right to make her complaint, we live in a free society, but I'd bet a boatload of money on this coming to naught. Why? Because, as the school board has already said, this organization does a good job of dealing with a topic that kids need to hear, and that often comes across better from a stranger, than the classroom teacher who offensive:shark: has to rag on these kids from day to day.

In the end, common sense, and the provincial curriculum, advocate that abstinence is still the only truly effective form of birth control, 13 year olds shouldn't be having sex anyhow as they are not emotionally ready, and that there are way more diseases floating around today that are with you for life, than we had to deal with in the 70s and 80s.

PS: Some of you guys need to get off your hobby horses about bashing Christianity. It doesn't really bother me much, but you come off as idiots. Do any of the Christians start threads bashing you as atheists? Doubtful.

First of all just because you go to church every Sunday does not make you a Christian man no matter how many years.

Secondly you presume a lot and think of yourself as being superior by saying YOU are the only person on this forum that can speak about this group with first hand knowledge of this group.......not a very Christian view...I'm sure there are others that have had dealings with this group. You are not as special as you hope you are.

Thirdly calling people idiots because of their views is definitely not a christian thing to do
Perhaps you should spend some time learning more about being a good christian
Think about this have a good night sir


Mack

[chasingtail]

BG won't be happy until there teaching gay sex to 6-10 year olds like the do in California.

[sns2]

First of all just because you go to church every Sunday does not make you a Christian man no matter how many years.

Secondly you presume a lot and think of yourself as being superior by saying YOU are the only person on this forum that can speak about this group with first hand knowledge of this group.......not a very Christian view...I'm sure there are others that have had dealings with this group. You are not as special as you hope you are.

Thirdly calling people idiots because of their views is definitely not a christian thing to do
Perhaps you should spend some time learning more about being a good christian
Think about this have a good night sir


Mack

No Mack. You are wrong. You guys can stereotype and as often as not tell us that we are all like priests who molest little boys and that's okay. But God forbid, or maybe in your case, "Fate forbid,' if we ever stick up for ourselves.

I stand by my words. Every last one of them.

[roper1]

No Mack. You are wrong. You guys can stereotype and as often as not tell us that we are all like priests who molest little boys and that's okay. But God forbid, or maybe in your case, "Fate forbid,' if we ever stick up for ourselves.

I stand by my words. Every last one of them.

So as the only person on this forum to have contact with this group, is this the first or only time they have presented their material?

[ali#1]

No Mack. You are wrong. You guys can stereotype and as often as not tell us that we are all like priests who molest little boys and that's okay. But God forbid, or maybe in your case, "Fate forbid,' if we ever stick up for ourselves.

I stand by my words. Every last one of them.

How many priests been tried and convicted of child molestation ?

[Redfrog]

How many priests been tried and convicted of child molestation ?

How many city workers have been tried and convicted of child molestation.:thinking-006:

[BeeGuy]

The Catholic Church has protected pedophiles for decades as a matter of policy.

That is a fact.

They continue to do so, and people still attend and give them money.

Keep your church, mosque, and synagogue out of my schools and out of my state.

And seriously, stop pretending like it's only the muslims that have been fighting each other for a thousand years.

Know your own history.

[Moosejuice]

Or how about they not teach sex ed at school and let us parents do our job and teach our own kids, and in our own way and with the freedoms and responsibilities we choose and believe to be appropriate and moral. There's an idea.

In the end, it's one person's opinion over another, parent over bureaucrat or bureaucrat over parent. Let parents be parents.

That has been tried and it provided the reason why Sex Ed was brought into classrooms about 40 years ago.

In short, where Sex Ed was taught unwanted teen pregnancies, incidents of STI etc were significantly lower than in places where it was not.

Fact is that most parents seem to get their info from dubious sources, or it is annecdotal or they just cannot bring themselves to educate their kids before the kids start experimenting for themselves.

Of course that doesn't stop anyone from sitting down with their 8 or 10 year olds and having the chat but like I said, most wait until the kids are a bit older than that and in an age where kids themselves can access porn very easily with their phones etc that might be something akin to closing the door after the cow has left the barn.

[Moosejuice]

Just read this:http://globalnews.ca/news/1446189/edmonton-principals-being-told-to-abstain-from-using-pregnancy-care-centre-for-sex-ed/

Well I guess it is par for the course of 'modern' secular society - let's limit teaching and instruction to just what secular society wants to hear, and let's not allow any person of faith to do any of it. I guess we can't trust teens to receive information from various perspectives and allow them to process and learn from it all; better to just give them the liberal, secularist, humanistic perspective. :rolleye2:.

Yup, sounds like a great 'new world' we're creating :thinking-006:

Just the kind of world BeeGuy and his ilk want.

Should I, and my fellow people of faith, just head to the concentration camp now? (NOTE: this comment is intended to be read at least partly as sarcasm)

You do realize that Sex Ed is basically a biology class right?

Morallity is left to the home, the church and perhaps Bible studies in some schools.

I cannot imagine a parent so concerned about this not wantimng their kids to have correct facts about reproduction and the human body.
I also cannot imagine a parent concerned about this feeling slighted because abstinence which is no sex is not being emphasised in a class about the act of sex. Especially when that parent has all the time they need to indoctrinate their kids to that line of thought which is what most parents including non-Christians do anyway.

Shame on us for providing kids the physical facts relevant to the topic and for leaving morality to parents to instill.

Funny, I can remember the same arguments coming from people then.
Often the same people whose daughters and sons were a lot more popular and active than they wished to believe.

[Mackinaw]

No Mack. You are wrong. You guys can stereotype and as often as not tell us that we are all like priests who molest little boys and that's okay. But God forbid, or maybe in your case, "Fate forbid,' if we ever stick up for ourselves.

I stand by my words. Every last one of them.

Perhaps you should reread your posts you are the one name calling and stereotypeing as christain bashers. I don't recall anone saying you are like a priest who molests little boys. I was raised in a very small town.....a very religous small town. I seen my fair share of Sunday morning christians.and will repeat again going to church every Sunday dose not make you christain.
Being christian is liveing and acting in a christian way everyday.



Mack

[Mistagin]

You do realize that Sex Ed is basically a biology class right?

Morallity is left to the home, the church and perhaps Bible studies in some schools.

I cannot imagine a parent so concerned about this not wantimng their kids to have correct facts about reproduction and the human body.
I also cannot imagine a parent concerned about this feeling slighted because abstinence which is no sex is not being emphasised in a class about the act of sex. Especially when that parent has all the time they need to indoctrinate their kids to that line of thought which is what most parents including non-Christians do anyway.

Shame on us for providing kids the physical facts relevant to the topic and for leaving morality to parents to instill.

Funny, I can remember the same arguments coming from people then.
Often the same people whose daughters and sons were a lot more popular and active than they wished to believe.

Uhh, I'm not sure what all you are saying here.

I, if I can say it this way, have 'been around the block' a few times :).

I'm nearly 59 years old. I was once a teenage boy with raging hormones, when just the sight of an attractive young lady produced certain 'feelings' of a sexual nature. I admit, sometimes I had to really struggle to control those feelings. Science and 'facts' wasn't much help in that struggle - but moral instruction certainly was! I'm sure all you guys know what I'm saying here!

I took sex ed classes - in a Christian elementary school (grade 8 back then) and then in a public high school. The biological content was basically the same in both - more detail in high school. The Christian school did have a strong morality component - from a Christian perspective - as part of the teaching. My parents did a darn good job of teaching me and my siblings the same. Even so, that didn't prevent my youngest sister from 'getting into trouble' - as it was stated back then.

My wife and I raised 2 sons and 2 daughters, they all had sex ed classes at school and further teaching at home. They have a healthy view of it all - biologically and morally.

Now my wife and I are encouraging and helping our kids raise our grandkids. As they reach an age of understanding they will get the full gamut of teaching about sex too - from a very healthy view of it all - scientific, religious, and moral.

Of course parents should and would want their kids to get the very best info and guidance about sex. It's very important precisely because we, all of us, without exception, are sexual creatures - and in my 'religious' beliefs - I believe we were created male and female as such, and for the purposeS of procreation and enjoyment/pleasure (within God's guidelines - going outside of which causes and produces all kinds of 'problems'). Note: one reason we have sex ed classes is because of those problems!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I believe there is a role for science based instruction in sex ed, and there is a valid role for values / morality based instruction in sex ed. We're wise to give kids all we can to help them have good info by which to make their choices.

However, in this case under discussion the woman and her daughter, at least so far as the media has reported, seem to want to exclude the value/morality side of it - insofar as those values and morality issues are informed from a Christian perspective (but in this case not overtly taught that way).

As SNS, and others, have pointed out, the curriculum in Alberta requires abstinence be taught as part of the whole package. And the group now being 'banned' has apparently done an exemplary job of it! On their website they have testimonials from kids and teachers affirming that, and the Alberta Board of Ed has said they do a good job too. Unfortunately the 'banning' of that organization, on the basis of 2 women complaining about their faith system, is likely going to deprive kids of valuable instruction.
So one must ask what the real problem is. I wonder, is anyone investigating why this woman and her daughter are so opposed to Christianity and Christian values? Is there such fear of Christian values in secular society that even groups who are Christian therefore must be excluded from engagement in public life - even though they are recognized as doing a good job?

I just read an insightful article concerning this kind of thing; in the article a professor (from Yale University) was quoted as saying, “The secular state is very good at using values, but not at producing values,” (http://www2.crcna.org/news.cfm?newsid=3853&section=1)

So where do the values that inform things like sexual relationships and activity come from? Science? No. Science provides data - which must then be measured, informed, and applied by means of some kind of 'values'. So I ask again: where should those values come from? Who creates them? Or, as media articles reporting on the story seem to indicate, should we simply discard the 'values' side of it all and just stick with the science part?

Hmmmmm :thinking-006:

[Winch101]

We do know that the fastest growing God related organization
In the USA today is ....Militant Atheism ......

I can't wait for them to start going door to door .....:scared0018:

[Mistagin]

sns2

Thanks for your post above.
Good to hear from someone with real practical experience on the topic and issue.

[Redfrog]

The Catholic Church has protected pedophiles for decades as a matter of policy.

That is a fact.

They continue to do so, and people still attend and give them money.

Keep your church, mosque, and synagogue out of my schools and out of my state.

And seriously, stop pretending like it's only the muslims that have been fighting each other for a thousand years.

Know your own history.

Some funny stuff right there.:sHa_shakeshout:

Here's a few more little known facts for your study.

The Bodo Bingo has a fund raiser for Catholic pedophiles the second Tuesday of every week.:sHa_shakeshout: All members of the Catholic faith stay away in droves to support pedophiles.

Muslims would never even consider sex with a child. They are the definition of peace and love and responsible world governance. Truly equal opportunity haters of women and Jews, and yet people still attend the Mosque and give them money.

I'll be so glad when dope is legal in Canada.:)

Odd. You have no problem singling out one group of clergy as pedophiles, but get yuor knickers in a twist when someone reports a group of fish poachers as 'Asian". Is that a double standard of moral indignation?

[ali#1]

Some funny stuff right there.:sHa_shakeshout:

Here's a few more little known facts for your study.

The Bodo Bingo has a fund raiser for Catholic pedophiles the second Tuesday of every week.:sHa_shakeshout: All members of the Catholic faith stay away in droves to support pedophiles.

Muslims would never even consider sex with a child. They are the definition of peace and love and responsible world governance. Truly equal opportunity haters of women and Jews, and yet people still attend the Mosque and give them money.

I'll be so glad when dope is legal in Canada.:)

Odd. You have no problem singling out one group of clergy as pedophiles, but get yuor knickers in a twist when someone reports a group of fish poachers as 'Asian". Is that a double standard of moral indignation?

How many priests have been tried and conviced of pedophilia ?

[Winch101]

The point is ......the majority of the civilized world ain't buying the
Fairy Tale anymore . And this is Important ,they don't mind telling you
En masse that your full of it .its a medical fact that you can be born
Without logic , it's learned , and some people their learner is broken
And can never be fixed . I would go so far as to say that what is
Considered by some to be extreme blind faith , is actually a
Mental disorder .
So when you allow religious thought to mix with Biology
In a public school , your out of line , and dress that pig up
Anyway you like ,it's still Pork .

Now the most important thing .....Bodo has a Bingo ?

That whole school board should be dismissed ......this little crapapazoola
Is far from over....I wonder what other sham is being run in our
Schools by crazed administrators .you know what happens when
You don't let adolescents have sex , you end up with a 40 year
Old weirdo living in your basement , whose spanked his brains
Out the end of his monkey or worse yet some religious kook with
Hair on his palms . If you just looked at your palms ,I'm sorry .

[Matt L.]

I don't think you were offensive enough there winch, try harder next time.

[Redfrog]

How many priests have been tried and conviced of pedophilia ?

No idea. But I bet there are more municipal workers on the sex offender registry than there are priests.

BTW, No offense to any muni workers not on the registry.

[ali#1]

No idea. But I bet there are more municipal workers on the sex offender registry than there are priests.

BTW, No offense to any muni workers not on the registry.

It helps when you have someone to hide you and move you around the country. I guess the kids that got molested don't deserve justice.

[Redfrog]

It helps when you have someone to hide you and move you around the country. I guess the kids that got molested don't deserve justice.

That's kind of weird POV.:thinking-006:

Are you refering to priests or people on the sex offender registry?

Are you trying to say you have no idea how many muni workers are on the registry?

[ali#1]

That's kind of weird POV.:thinking-006:

Are you refering to priests or people on the sex offender registry?

Are you trying to say you have no idea how many muni workers are on the registry?

I have no idea how many muni worker are on, I do know how many priests are on - 0. 0 the same number who have been tried.

[Redfrog]

I have no idea how many muni worker are on, I do know how many priests are on - 0. 0 the same number who have been tried.

So no priests are on the registry? Where did you verify that info?

[Moosejuice]

Uhh, I'm not sure what all you are saying here.

I, if I can say it this way, have 'been around the block' a few times :).

I'm nearly 59 years old. I was once a teenage boy with raging hormones, when just the sight of an attractive young lady produced certain 'feelings' of a sexual nature. I admit, sometimes I had to really struggle to control those feelings. Science and 'facts' wasn't much help in that struggle - but moral instruction certainly was! I'm sure all you guys know what I'm saying here!

I took sex ed classes - in a Christian elementary school (grade 8 back then) and then in a public high school. The biological content was basically the same in both - more detail in high school. The Christian school did have a strong morality component - from a Christian perspective - as part of the teaching. My parents did a darn good job of teaching me and my siblings the same. Even so, that didn't prevent my youngest sister from 'getting into trouble' - as it was stated back then.

My wife and I raised 2 sons and 2 daughters, they all had sex ed classes at school and further teaching at home. They have a healthy view of it all - biologically and morally.

Now my wife and I are encouraging and helping our kids raise our grandkids. As they reach an age of understanding they will get the full gamut of teaching about sex too - from a very healthy view of it all - scientific, religious, and moral.

Of course parents should and would want their kids to get the very best info and guidance about sex. It's very important precisely because we, all of us, without exception, are sexual creatures - and in my 'religious' beliefs - I believe we were created male and female as such, and for the purposeS of procreation and enjoyment/pleasure (within God's guidelines - going outside of which causes and produces all kinds of 'problems'). Note: one reason we have sex ed classes is because of those problems!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I believe there is a role for science based instruction in sex ed, and there is a valid role for values / morality based instruction in sex ed. We're wise to give kids all we can to help them have good info by which to make their choices.

However, in this case under discussion the woman and her daughter, at least so far as the media has reported, seem to want to exclude the value/morality side of it - insofar as those values and morality issues are informed from a Christian perspective (but in this case not overtly taught that way).

As SNS, and others, have pointed out, the curriculum in Alberta requires abstinence be taught as part of the whole package. And the group now being 'banned' has apparently done an exemplary job of it! On their website they have testimonials from kids and teachers affirming that, and the Alberta Board of Ed has said they do a good job too. Unfortunately the 'banning' of that organization, on the basis of 2 women complaining about their faith system, is likely going to deprive kids of valuable instruction.
So one must ask what the real problem is. I wonder, is anyone investigating why this woman and her daughter are so opposed to Christianity and Christian values? Is there such fear of Christian values in secular society that even groups who are Christian therefore must be excluded from engagement in public life - even though they are recognized as doing a good job?

I just read an insightful article concerning this kind of thing; in the article a professor (from Yale University) was quoted as saying, “The secular state is very good at using values, but not at producing values,” (http://www2.crcna.org/news.cfm?newsid=3853&section=1)

So where do the values that inform things like sexual relationships and activity come from? Science? No. Science provides data - which must then be measured, informed, and applied by means of some kind of 'values'. So I ask again: where should those values come from? Who creates them? Or, as media articles reporting on the story seem to indicate, should we simply discard the 'values' side of it all and just stick with the science part?

Hmmmmm :thinking-006:


My point is that biology is biology and morality is something else.

On any other day people would be complaining if a school taught a morality that they did NOT agree with.
Here they refuse bias and leave it to parents and people still get upset.

This is a win for everyone.

Teach your kids as you see fit, go to church and let the school handle the mechanics of reproduction (including mention of abstinence) while you address philosophy.

OR

Do not complain when schools begin to address the "moral" issues of homosexuality, masturbation and fetishism.

We need to make up our minds here.
We all got wanted in a round about way and are now unhappy that it also comes with a bit of a down side.

Either hand over morality to progressives in schools or accept the reins and combine that with the RC schools or whatever.

But do not expect a particular groups religious views to be any more welcome in non secular school than hedonists might be where nuns teach or hindu idols would be in a moslim school.

The seperation and freedoms and immunity from persecution that people of faith wish to enjoy must be respected by peole of faith when others wish for similar reasonable consideration when it comes to their belief structures and their morality.

Our rights do not trump theirs.

I am Christian but that would certainly be tested if I found any Christian (or other) Activist movement in my daughters schools trying to influence them or steer their morality at their possible perile later on.

Not everyone that is of faith has the same point of view you do and you should not assume that they should.
Not all Christian churches are as lacking in humility as (perhaps:)) yours is.

Nobody is forcing anyone to abandon values.
They are just stating like so many conservative christians that such things are best taught at the knee by parents and their respective spiritual advisors and not by relative strangers.

[score]

Look idiots! There are a hell of a lot bigger issues at hand than an hour long sex ed course over lunch that parents ok and GOD in the schools. Get a ******* grip on what's important out there. GOD is ok and the least of our problems.....really. Wake the **** up.

[Mackinaw]

Look idiots! There are a hell of a lot bigger issues at hand than an hour long sex ed course over lunch that parents ok and GOD in the schools. Get a ******* grip on what's important out there. GOD is ok and the least of our problems.....really. Wake the **** up.

Perhaps drinking and posting is not the best idea

Mack

[Moosejuice]

Perhaps drinking and posting is not the best idea

Mack

And such language and on Gods day too.:scared: