Marital home - legal advice

[BritishCanadian]

So back at the start of early October, after arriving home from work I was greeted by my wife and her -enter graphic insult- friend, and was asked to leave. Being a man with morals, I didn't want to disrupt the children so voluntarily left the marital home; the house is in both our names.

I have spent the last 6 weeks pretty much in a bad place. I managed to get staff housing as I have nowhere to go, but that is temporary. Hence my earlier post trying to get on the rigs, as I want to make a fresh start, and the money will get me back on my feet.

Today I woke up and finally decided to start looking after myself; was nice to pull the curtains and let some light in.

This leads me to my post, as I want to know what my legal rights are, and right now i don't have money for a lawyer, so I am hoping someone on here may have gone through the same, and would be able to offer the legal advice they gained.

Very simply; does she have any right to make me, or is she able to force me to sign the house over to her? Also, do i have to make arrangements with her to go to and enter the house, if i jointly own it with her?

[Djm2u]

Good info can be found here:

http://divorce-canada.ca/property-divorce-laws

From personal experience and not knowing your situation. The best advice I can give you is keep your cool and never let your emotions get the best of you. If things are bad always document and have a friend with at all of your meetings. This will help protect you if things get ugly. Play to win don't make it easy for them by loosing your temper. If your partner will agree try to use mediation to sort things out as Lawyers only complicate things.

I wish you the best. Don't waste time on what was and focus on starting fresh. Trust me on all of the above I wasted 4 years trying to be right and it got me nowhere fast.

Hope this helps....:)

[NewAlbertan]

If I could suggest. You need to walk down the road to divorce. So, u need a separation agreement. There are freely available templates, check the govt websites.
Include access and housing arraignments. She can't force you to sign it over, it is to be negotiated.
The separation agreement should outline use and access as well as bills and liability for the short term - ie the year before you can file for divorce.
Best to remain civil and try I negotiate a fair arrangement in the year, then try your best to Part ways.
Gl. Move on. Take care.

[Djm2u]

Opps almost forgot this is another great resource to find info on your personal rights......

http://www.albertacourts.ab.ca/CourtServices/LInCLawInformationCentres/tabid/275/Default.aspx

[rugatika]

Go to legal aid or something. You NEED to talk to a lawyer or you are going to take it up the hoohaw. I would also never advise leaving the home either. Noble to care about the kids like that, but....

Go get legal advise no matter how you do it.

I'm sure others will chime in soon enough, but I think you may want to get back into the house ASAP. Not sure what you have for valuables etc in there, but intuitively, to me....leaving the house seems like a bad idea.

But the important part is to ignore everyone on here and GET SOME LEGAL ADVISE!!! (from a lawyer). :)

[javlin101]

I did the same, left the home for kids sake and it was a mistake. Once you leave it is very easy for her to get a judge to block your access. Believe me judges will side for a mother with children vs the husband. Talk to lawyer, see if one will work out a payment plan but get lawyer. Record or have everything in writing when dealing with her. Also try your hardest to get along and work with your wife cause you have no idea how ugly she can make you life,, trust me on that one.

[coastalhunter]

Do you own guns? Are they at your house? They need to be removed by a friend who is licensed and stored by him if this is applicable.

[Redfrog]

Get a lawyer. Initial conference is usually free. There are a couple on this board I believe. Hopefully one will contact you or post here.

Get a lawyer. Get a lawyer. oh yeah, get a lawyer.

[BritishCanadian]

First of all thank you for all your advice so far!

I wanted to add this. We are very amicable. We have remained mature about this, and talk at least 2 or 3 times a week. So far she has stated she has no issue with me coming over any time to see the kids or the dogs. Although this does annoy me to have to get permission to enter a house i own.

Everyone keeps telling me it was a mistake to leave, but this does confuse me. Regardless if i leave or not, i still own half the house, regardless if i leave or not..

Luckily i own no guns as next year I am hoping to get out on my first hunt.

I found a free separation agreement template I will use. However, I don't really want to lose the house as its the only investment I have..

Suppose right now Im just starting to brush myself off and come to terms with being 32 and on my own, when 3 months ago i had a home, a wife, my 2 kids and my 2 dogs.... But Im determined to not let this destroy me..I think I have put off the separation agreement as by getting that done really makes it too official for me..

again thanks for you help everyone, I really do love and appreciate this forum.

[rugatika]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you have to protect yourself. She is being amicable right now because you are bending over backwards to her demands. Try moving back into YOUR home and that amicable thing is out the window.

If you are willing to walk away from everything you have put your money into for the sake of walking away and starting fresh that is up to you. Not sure what all you have into your house etc. BUT, I would not be downloading separation agreements, or signing anything or agreeing to anything (this includes verbally)without talking to a lawyer. She could be recording everything you say when you talk to her (perfectly legal). I would be very careful what you are saying to her on the phone, in person etc.

Women can be the sweetest people on the planet when things are going according to their plans. Put a speed bump in front of those plans and they will pluck your eyes out of your head and smile.

Go talk to a lawyer.

[wwbirds]

In my experience those people who feel they cannot afford a lawyer are the ones that need a lawyer the most!

[norwestalta]

Rugatika is right. GET A LAWYER. My divorce wasn't that to expensive. My lawyer told me be nice. So I didn't get to rammy with the ex. No matter how mad I was and still get(its only been 15 years, I smile and keep my mouth shut. There's lots to loose by not having a lawyer even if you think you've got nothing.

[norwestalta]

Lawyer bills get expensive when you both want to fight and believe me lawyer's like to fight. I think my legal separation was some meat. Divorce was about $2500. Would of been cheaper but she started the divorce with one lawyer and didn't pay him so i had to pay to get the file or whatever i needed to proceed.

[Dacotensis]

I could write a book.

Without a doubt, be the first to file for divorce!!!!

It seems to me that one has more pull when you are in control.

Do you want the kids in your life?
That has ramifications as well. Can you prove that you have been in their life?
School functions etc.
do you want immediate access to you children?
Why the eff do you need any ones permission?
Of course this all goes out the window if you are a loser who is a pos.
Then you get what you deserve....

Don't know where you are at, but here in edmonton all the divorce lawyers are busy.
You need a family law lawyer.
If one dabbles in real estate and other things as well, I wouldn't waste my time.
I did, so I can speak from experience.
I am now with a lawyer who has practiced family law. Stricktly that for 27 years.
I like what she brings in experience compared to the other guy I used for years.

My take on it is, real estate deal comes up. Easy $ for the lawyers. Your divorce case gets put on hold.

And remember.
If one person doesn't want to settle, the other can't.

[rottik9]

Here is the math.

amicable + X= screwed


Now two moves, get a lawyer you need one. and document everything, dates, times.

Good luck

[Sneeze]

I am on the other side of this issue. Lawyer is going to take your money and speed up the process of you paying even more money.

Divorce could take 3 years to finalize. In that time your kids will be a great deal closer to 18.

Go home. Say you thought it was a temporary thing. Sleep on the couch. If she calls the cops just tell them she is off her medication again.

You don't have to agree to anything. I would have a look at the schedules for child support payments if you decide to continue living apart. The courts may award her back pay in the child support department. You would be foolish not to save this money now.

If your not abusive and she doesn't have any formal agreements in place with you... just go home. Crack a beer, put your feet up and when she gets home say "Hi Honey! I'm here to work things out! - By the way I just purchased this Beretta DT-11 you said you always wanted! I cashed in some RSP's to do it, but I thought it would make you happy!"


Look on the bright side. If you don't have the money for a lawyer chances are either does she. Why rush the issue? Why rush into paying rent? Why rush into paying alimony? Child Support? Why rush into being forced to pay her legal costs? Be prepared to eventually say goodbye to your house (and keep having to make payments on it) - but why do it today?

Why do all the work for her? 99% chance your going to get screwed over here anyway. Why get in a big rush to get screwed over?

[amosfella]

Move back in asap, and tell her that if she wants her friend to come over and 'do' her, she can leave. File first on grounds of infidelity, and move to strip her of all property rights, get custody of the kids, etc.
Oh, get one of them nifty smartphone apps to record every convo with her. It'll save you a buttload of trouble.
If she complains that she thought you left and moved out, 'I was taking time to clear my head to think clearly, and now that I have done that, I have come back to my home" is a very good answer.
Remember if you abandon the property to her while still having a contract to pay the mortgage, you have to pay while leaving her possession. Abandoned property is available for anyone to grab...

[JohninAB]

Only advice I have is get a lawyer. Asking for legal advice on this forum is silly at best unless one of the few lawyers on here responds.

[roper1]

Bad Karma first post says you can't afford a lawyer. You can't afford NOT to have one. The extra money spent keeping you on track in a very trying time will repay itself 10-fold. Just my experience. All the best.

[hafwit]

every one will have advice. but trust me on this. there will be better days ahead, and joy will eventually replace sorrow. don't let this consume you. your best revenge is to live a happy fulfilling life. there are people in this world who actually care about you. lean on them.

[3blade]

Lots of ways to go about it, as detailed above. Depends on what you want. If you want to be involved with the kids, be prepared for a really nasty fight and losing a lot of time and money. Only you can decide what it's worth. While I commend the attempt at not "disrupting" the children, that horse has long been outta the barn. They read you both far better than you think.

The money you have in the house is likely gone either way. She is amicable because she is setting you up to get stripped of your wallet and dignity. Watch what happens the first time you disagree with her now. Or don't.

IMHO, life's too short. Head for warmer sands and prettier girls, and let the cow deal with the payments. Sounds like you don't have a set career (willing to jump to the rigs - bad idea, that's more gold to dig out of you) so Central America may be nice (English speaking fishing guide?) or Australia has plenty of general work that you can get by with until you figure out what's next. NZ has as good or better hunting than here. Grab what you can, sell it for cash, and get out.

you don't want to be looking back at 5-10 wasted years.

[Mudzbogger]

First, make sure you fill out the paperwork to ensure you have guardianship of your children now, yes makes no sense but do it now. Second enroll in parenting after separation. Third, get a lawyer and a good one at that because while as some have said she is nice now, there is a reason for it. Why else would she have told you to leave without trying to work it out first

Don't know where your at but if in Calgary, Joyce Stuber is one of the best

[Mackinaw]

Only advice I have is get a lawyer. Asking for legal advice on this forum is silly at best unless one of the few lawyers on here responds.

All that needs to be said

Mack

[javlin101]

All that needs to be said

Mack

And these two comments help how, he has already been told to get a lawyer by every post before yours. Some of us have or still going through this ugly process and can give some good advice.

[RandyBoBandy]

http://thedivorcecompany.ca/

See if any of this would work BUT it would take 2 to tango Good Luck mate:)

[pmac]

Here is the math.

amicable + X= screwed


Now two moves, get a lawyer you need one. and document everything, dates, times.

Good luck

Also some things a few friends of mine have learned the hard way:
Some employers include legal support in their benefit packages ask you HR. If this is the case there may be divorce counseling available also.
Get a new bank account and credit cards and cancel any joint accounts, lines of credit and credit cards that your wife may access and run up to stick you with.
Get yourself a PO box and have all your mail sent there ASAP
Do not underestimate what you ex could be capable of, no doubt she is being coached by someone how to work you and the system

HOPE FOR THE BEST BUT PLAN FOR THE WORST!

[coolpete1]

best advise i can offer is secure 50% custody of your kids from get go , and dont back off from it , second is have a witness to any interactions you have with her from the time you tell her you want a 50 50 split with kids , cause she will be ****ed when her plans to live off your pay for the next 10 years starts to slip away and you might end up in jail for something you didn't say or do. i got lucky with my ex , she is sane and easy to get along with , but i know other guys with stories that scare the crap out of me. also after the kid/custody stuff is settled i'd sell the house or make her pay you out , she has to live somewhere , but not on your money and if she can't afford the kids offer to take them full time till she can do her part , i think a judge may agree with that from time to time.
good luck

[Mackinaw]

And these two comments help how, he has already been told to get a lawyer by every post before yours. Some of us have or still going through this ugly process and can give some good advice.

It helps by telling him to get advice from someone that knows the laws not someone that thinks he does. Been through it twice and would still not give any more advice then see a lawer...

Mack

.

[amosfella]

Dump everything into a trust and buy it through a trust in the future. They can't take from you what isn't yours. Even if it isn't yours, it's great to have the use of it... ;)

[oyster_777]

Dump everything into a trust and buy it through a trust in the future. They can't take from you what isn't yours. Even if it isn't yours, it's great to have the use of it... ;)

Can you expand on this comment. Looking for more details.

[Canehdianman]

Hi there,

lawyer here. The best advice I can give you in to call the lawyer referral service.

http://www.lawsociety.ab.ca/public/lawyer_referral.aspx

[javlin101]

It helps by telling him to get advice from someone that knows the laws not someone that thinks he does. Been through it twice and would still not give any more advice then see a lawer...

Mack

.

I have seen a lawyer mess up in divorce proceedings i.e. my ex's who finally got fired. I have a good lawyer but there are things we went after that I pressed him into and I won. A friend of mine did the same thing and had meps on his butt and won. Lawyers know the law, courts, and Judges but they still take their orders from the client. Be involved not just a ride along with your lawyer and it is good to listen to others on what worked and what did not for them. No matter what first thing is a lawyer and that's a no brainier but you are the one driving the bus the lawyer makes sure you do not crash. Like I said get involved and find out what happened to others and how it turned out, divorces are far from cookie cutter processes. Everyone has it's own issues and challenges.

I am hopefully gonna finish mine within a month, my ex stretch it for 4 years and threw everything imaginable at me. I don't regret having my lawyer from day one. However I looked up a lot of cases and comments from others who have gone through it, took what I felt could help myself and ran it past my counsel. He would tell me if it was worth going after or a waste of time. He in the end would ask me with his advise what path to take.

[waterhawk]

Dump everything into a trust and buy it through a trust in the future. They can't take from you what isn't yours. Even if it isn't yours, it's great to have the use of it... ;)

My advise is don't follow this advise.

[amosfella]

My advise is don't follow this advise.

and why do you advise that??

[waterhawk]

and why do you advise that??

Because it is poor advise. Do you really think that the law in Canada does not provide a remedy for someone trying to hide his assets to avoid a court order as to where it is to go? If the OP followed your advise it would be obvious what he was doing. You think judges are hard on men in separation matters, try dealing with a judge when it is clear you have tried some funny business with your assets.

[Sundancefisher]

I believe their is a cheaper way to use a joint lawyer if the parties are not contesting and are breaking up on "good terms".

Kids involved may make it more difficult.

http://www.programs.alberta.ca/Living/5961.aspx?N=770+5249


Mediation services
http://www.albertacourts.ab.ca/fjs/adr.php

Sad...but happy you are moving on. Life is far too short as it is to be down for long. Sometimes things just don't work out. Great news is lifes problems will get better with time.

[amosfella]

Can you expand on this comment. Looking for more details.

A trust is a separate entity from you, the person. They can only come after you for property, maintenance, etc. The trust owns the property but lets you have use of it.
As the court can only take away property that is in your name in any kind of case, they cannot take away trust property of which you have use.

Friend of mine set this up before he got married. He was a rich character. He was earning in the high end of 6 figures a year as an operating systems architect. Because all the money went directly to the trust, he drew out of the trust $10000 a year for personal expenses, toothpaste, shampoo, that kind of stuff. The rest of the stuff he had was bought for him by the trust, and his name was nowhere on it.

After he got married, he kept buying things into the trust, not to his name. Wife divorced him, and tried taking everything. Judge treated it as an open and shut case. My friend kept everything. When she went on squawking that it wasn't fair, the judge told her that he cannot take from him property that wasn't his and give it to her, and that he didn't own the property, merely had the use of it. All she got out of that deal was $3000 a year.

Just an FYI, my friend didn't even get for a good lawyer. He had one that was laughed at by opposing counsel as being the bottom of the barrel and the worst lawyer in town. But all that poor laughingstock had to do was to keep filing motions stating that my friend didn't own any of the things being claimed but merely had the use of them. It was owned by trust xyz. That was it.

Trusts when set up right are extremely powerful entities. They have more rights than you and me as individuals. Trusts in their implied state are everywhere. There are in every transaction you make. It takes a while to understand, but it is very important understanding. I could say more, but I"m not qualified to give legal advice, and neither do I want to answer the barrage of questions that would come.

[amosfella]

Because it is poor advise. Do you really think that the law in Canada does not provide a remedy for someone trying to hide his assets to avoid a court order as to where it is to go? If the OP followed your advise it would be obvious what he was doing. You think judges are hard on men in separation matters, try dealing with a judge when it is clear you have tried some funny business with your assets.

I'm talking about the future, not retroactive. While the legal system in Canada has a remedy in it, there is an exception to that remedy as well. Do you think that the lawyers, judges, etc., who write the statutes, and who use trusts to hide their own assets wouldn't leave an escape hatch for themselves??? I mean, do you really think that they would paint themselves into a corner?????? Really????????????

But as an aside, the divorce court can't just pierce a trust. They can give an order to pierce the trust, but a simple appeal to set aside that order will stop that cold. It has to go to federal court, and will become prohibitively expensive for her to fight it. Also, trusts can be set up retroactively. I've seen it happen. I've seen the paperwork.

Guy I know through friends who is from Red Deer lost nothing by setting up a trust retroactively. He hired a law/accounting firm from Chicago to set it up. Also, the trust is foreign to Canada, making it a multijurisdictional fight to get the assets. The judges here won't even touch the case to get assets, and the judges where the trust is located won't touch the case because the property isn't there. Interesting quandary... ;)

[fish_e_o]

mine was supposed to sign the papers for me to buy her out today. but that hasn't happened yet....

i threatened to take her to mediation (after 3 years) the one posted previous and it would have worked out so expensive for everyone that it was finally the last straw to make her reasonable

best of luck i'm cheering for you so you can hopefully have a quick and fair resolution

[rugatika]

I'm talking about the future, not retroactive. While the legal system in Canada has a remedy in it, there is an exception to that remedy as well. Do you think that the lawyers, judges, etc., who write the statutes, and who use trusts to hide their own assets wouldn't leave an escape hatch for themselves??? I mean, do you really think that they would paint themselves into a corner?????? Really????????????

But as an aside, the divorce court can't just pierce a trust. They can give an order to pierce the trust, but a simple appeal to set aside that order will stop that cold. It has to go to federal court, and will become prohibitively expensive for her to fight it. Also, trusts can be set up retroactively. I've seen it happen. I've seen the paperwork.

Guy I know through friends who is from Red Deer lost nothing by setting up a trust retroactively. He hired a law/accounting firm from Chicago to set it up. Also, the trust is foreign to Canada, making it a multijurisdictional fight to get the assets. The judges here won't even touch the case to get assets, and the judges where the trust is located won't touch the case because the property isn't there. Interesting quandary... ;)

Are you sure she didn't get any of his stuff in the trust because they were acquired prior to the marriage? I am for sure not a lawyer, but when it comes to tracking down assets that were acquired during the marriage, I don't think you can so easily put them in another name or "hide" them in plain site and not expect to have that value assigned to your spouse. Did they have kids together?

[waterhawk]

A trust is a separate entity from you, the person. They can only come after you for property, maintenance, etc. The trust owns the property but lets you have use of it.
As the court can only take away property that is in your name in any kind of case, they cannot take away trust property of which you have use.

Friend of mine set this up before he got married. He was a rich character. He was earning in the high end of 6 figures a year as an operating systems architect. Because all the money went directly to the trust, he drew out of the trust $10000 a year for personal expenses, toothpaste, shampoo, that kind of stuff. The rest of the stuff he had was bought for him by the trust, and his name was nowhere on it.

After he got married, he kept buying things into the trust, not to his name. Wife divorced him, and tried taking everything. Judge treated it as an open and shut case. My friend kept everything. When she went on squawking that it wasn't fair, the judge told her that he cannot take from him property that wasn't his and give it to her, and that he didn't own the property, merely had the use of it. All she got out of that deal was $3000 a year.

Just an FYI, my friend didn't even get for a good lawyer. He had one that was laughed at by opposing counsel as being the bottom of the barrel and the worst lawyer in town. But all that poor laughingstock had to do was to keep filing motions stating that my friend didn't own any of the things being claimed but merely had the use of them. It was owned by trust xyz. That was it.

Trusts when set up right are extremely powerful entities. They have more rights than you and me as individuals. Trusts in their implied state are everywhere. There are in every transaction you make. It takes a while to understand, but it is very important understanding. I could say more, but I"m not qualified to give legal advice, and neither do I want to answer the barrage of questions that would come.



Guys, this is nonsence. That is my final comment on the matter.

[fish_e_o]

Guys, this is nonsence. That is my final comment on the matter.

100% the guy would have to own the trust or part of the trust and she could go after that

[Flatlandliver]

There are things in life that you should bargain hunt for, divorce lawyers are not one of them. The only ao advise you should get is get legal advise asap.
There have been a number of good threads on this before, search em out, and good luck. Its can be a long crappy experience but you will be better off in the end.
You know why guys get divorced even though it costs a fortune?
Its worth every penny!

[Cement Bench]

Because it is poor advise. Do you really think that the law in Canada does not provide a remedy for someone trying to hide his assets to avoid a court order as to where it is to go? If the OP followed your advise it would be obvious what he was doing. You think judges are hard on men in separation matters, try dealing with a judge when it is clear you have tried some funny business with your assets.

WATERHAWK IS CORRECT IN HIS STATEMENTS,

AMOSFELLA IS A PUTZ OR A REAR END,

as a RETIRED FAMILY LAWYER IN ALBERTA, I make the folowing comments,

1. read the matrimonial property act of alberta,

2. study the equitable doctrine of tracing

3. read the matrimonial act of alberta (said twice for emphasis)

a-fella is a nut job, only the exemptions before marraige are not spilt up and yet they can be divided up to render a settlement by way of a court order,

unless one moves to chicago the trust can and will be broken and ordered wound up and an appeal will not work or will not try the hands of the lower court for long, and his suggestions about judges and lawyers leaving loopholes for them and their friends is just nutty,

a-fella needs to be in a home for long term care,

property law is simple and straightforward (give you a hint divide by 2 after the date of marraige is a great start)

this would be funny if not for the fact some folks believe what is written on the internet

thanks to waterhawk for trying to lend a hand well done my friend


Cement Bench

[nelsonob1]

A trust is a separate entity from you, the person. They can only come after you for property, maintenance, etc. The trust owns the property but lets you have use of it.
As the court can only take away property that is in your name in any kind of case, they cannot take away trust property of which you have use.

Friend of mine set this up before he got married. He was a rich character. He was earning in the high end of 6 figures a year as an operating systems architect. Because all the money went directly to the trust, he drew out of the trust $10000 a year for personal expenses, toothpaste, shampoo, that kind of stuff. The rest of the stuff he had was bought for him by the trust, and his name was nowhere on it.

After he got married, he kept buying things into the trust, not to his name. Wife divorced him, and tried taking everything. Judge treated it as an open and shut case. My friend kept everything. When she went on squawking that it wasn't fair, the judge told her that he cannot take from him property that wasn't his and give it to her, and that he didn't own the property, merely had the use of it. All she got out of that deal was $3000 a year.

Just an FYI, my friend didn't even get for a good lawyer. He had one that was laughed at by opposing counsel as being the bottom of the barrel and the worst lawyer in town. But all that poor laughingstock had to do was to keep filing motions stating that my friend didn't own any of the things being claimed but merely had the use of them. It was owned by trust xyz. That was it.

Trusts when set up right are extremely powerful entities. They have more rights than you and me as individuals. Trusts in their implied state are everywhere. There are in every transaction you make. It takes a while to understand, but it is very important understanding. I could say more, but I"m not qualified to give legal advice, and neither do I want to answer the barrage of questions that would come.

As stated earlier this advice should not be followed for a whole host of reasons. Canada has a variety of anti trust legislation and general avoidance laws. I use a number of trusts both corporately and personally but they can not be used as avoidance vehicles otherwise the courts will break them up. The lower courts that deal with divorce and family issues exercise a lot of discretionary authority but intend to find an equitable solution. Trying to dodge your legal obligations is more likely to frustrate the judge and get you into more problems.

[amosfella]

WATERHAWK IS CORRECT IN HIS STATEMENTS,

AMOSFELLA IS A PUTZ OR A REAR END,

as a RETIRED FAMILY LAWYER IN ALBERTA, I make the folowing comments,

1. read the matrimonial property act of alberta,

2. study the equitable doctrine of tracing

3. read the matrimonial act of alberta (said twice for emphasis)

a-fella is a nut job, only the exemptions before marraige are not spilt up and yet they can be divided up to render a settlement by way of a court order,

unless one moves to chicago the trust can and will be broken and ordered wound up and an appeal will not work or will not try the hands of the lower court for long, and his suggestions about judges and lawyers leaving loopholes for them and their friends is just nutty,

a-fella needs to be in a home for long term care,

property law is simple and straightforward (give you a hint divide by 2 after the date of marraige is a great start)

this would be funny if not for the fact some folks believe what is written on the internet

thanks to waterhawk for trying to lend a hand well done my friend


Cement Bench

Did you specialize in trust law?? Oh, and are you giving legal advice?? Also, I understand that you have to protect your club even after you aren't a member.... You may want to read The Law of Trusts in Canada by Waters.

A improperly set up trust can easily be broken up. A properly set up one will be all but impossible to break.

And to those asking, about my friend, the trust was set up before the marriage, and assets were acquired into it during the marriage. There were kids. He had it set up properly. The trust was never breached. However, I"m deliberately leaving out details of the trust setup that factored into that decision.

[diggerrigger]

Amosfella did you get all the tinfoil hats in your divorce ?

Honestly man the original question on this thread is what interested us . This is a subject that sadly most families face . I am counciling my brother right now as he was abruptly served when he got home 12 days ago.
I speak from experience when I say the financial toll can be very difficult but the emotional toll can be crippling .

so please Amos don't ruin a thread like this.

[raab]

First for me I would go kick that SOB thats boning your wife out of YOUR house. What a POS, can't stand guys who steal another guys wife.

Second see if she'll go to counselling with you. Show that you want to make the relationship work. Most of the times with infidelity its because one person or the other is missing something in the relationship. If you can work it out and move on it'll be better for you, her and the kids moving forward.

Third if she wants a divorce I'd lawyer up, I'd rather pay a lawyer a hundred grand then pay my ex wife a hundred grand. Thats how you have to look at it. Also I'd put a retainer on the top 5 lawyers in the city just so she couldn't use them.

[Mackinaw]

I have seen a lawyer mess up in divorce proceedings i.e. my ex's who finally got fired. I have a good lawyer but there are things we went after that I pressed him into and I won. A friend of mine did the same thing and had meps on his butt and won. Lawyers know the law, courts, and Judges but they still take their orders from the client. Be involved not just a ride along with your lawyer and it is good to listen to others on what worked and what did not for them. No matter what first thing is a lawyer and that's a no brainier but you are the one driving the bus the lawyer makes sure you do not crash. Like I said get involved and find out what happened to others and how it turned out, divorces are far from cookie cutter processes. Everyone has it's own issues and challenges.

I am hopefully gonna finish mine within a month, my ex stretch it for 4 years and threw everything imaginable at me. I don't regret having my lawyer from day one. However I looked up a lot of cases and comments from others who have gone through it, took what I felt could help myself and ran it past my counsel. He would tell me if it was worth going after or a waste of time. He in the end would ask me with his advise what path to take.


So the best advice is still to seek advice from a lawyer..... Thank you for making my point ..AGAIN..

Mack

[javlin101]

So the best advice is still to seek advice from a lawyer..... Thank you for making my point ..AGAIN..

Mack

Your point was made by others including myself several times prior to your post so how did you help here????????????????????????

[Zip]

WATERHAWK IS CORRECT IN HIS STATEMENTS,

AMOSFELLA IS A PUTZ OR A REAR END,

as a RETIRED FAMILY LAWYER IN ALBERTA, I make the folowing comments,

1. read the matrimonial property act of alberta,

2. study the equitable doctrine of tracing

3. read the matrimonial act of alberta (said twice for emphasis)

a-fella is a nut job, only the exemptions before marraige are not spilt up and yet they can be divided up to render a settlement by way of a court order,

unless one moves to chicago the trust can and will be broken and ordered wound up and an appeal will not work or will not try the hands of the lower court for long, and his suggestions about judges and lawyers leaving loopholes for them and their friends is just nutty,

a-fella needs to be in a home for long term care,

property law is simple and straightforward (give you a hint divide by 2 after the date of marraige is a great start)

this would be funny if not for the fact some folks believe what is written on the internet

thanks to waterhawk for trying to lend a hand well done my friend


Cement Bench

Not that i am calling this advice of any sort at all...but i would be listening with both ears on this one!

[amosfella]

Amosfella did you get all the tinfoil hats in your divorce ?

Honestly man the original question on this thread is what interested us . This is a subject that sadly most families face . I am counciling my brother right now as he was abruptly served when he got home 12 days ago.
I speak from experience when I say the financial toll can be very difficult but the emotional toll can be crippling .

so please Amos don't ruin a thread like this.

mmm, nope. Never married, and no kids. Never saw the need to involve the state as a party in my relationships. Just saw what happened with many of my friends. All but two or three of them is divorced now at least once now.

To the OP, remember this, the first to file into a court is always considered the injured party. If you're not the one who files first, you have to defend from the idea that you're the one that caused the injury. Also forget being reasonable. Women are always encouraged to go after everything, while men are encouraged to be 'reasonable'. (This creates extended conflict with the woman as the aggressor trying to take everything, and the man trying to defend what he thinks is fair and reasonable, and this conflict is where lawyers make their money to drive those fancy cars, and buy the big houses, etc.) Go after everything first. Full custody, the house, the cars, etc. Also, remember, you can file for divorce, and never follow through with the case if you can work things out. But, BE THE FIRST TO FILE!!!! And file it as a fault divorce for infidelity. Don't go the no fault route.

I will not provide further comment on this thread as you wish.

[Redfrog]

If you want peace......prepare for war.

[Dacotensis]

mmm, nope. Never married, and no kids. Never saw the need to involve the state as a party in my relationships. Just saw what happened with many of my friends. All but two or three of them is divorced now at least once now.

To the OP, remember this, the first to file into a court is always considered the injured party. If you're not the one who files first, you have to defend from the idea that you're the one that caused the injury. Also forget being reasonable. Women are always encouraged to go after everything, while men are encouraged to be 'reasonable'. (This creates extended conflict with the woman as the aggressor trying to take everything, and the man trying to defend what he thinks is fair and reasonable, and this conflict is where lawyers make their money to drive those fancy cars, and buy the big houses, etc.) Go after everything first. Full custody, the house, the cars, etc. Also, remember, you can file for divorce, and never follow through with the case if you can work things out. But, BE THE FIRST TO FILE!!!! And file it as a fault divorce for infidelity. Don't go the no fault route.

I will not provide further comment on this thread as you wish.

Oh no. You're not done yet!

Please provide further comment on "at fault" divorce as it pertains to law in Alberta.
I'm anxious to see case law that has been tested in Alberta. I'll help you narrow down your search parameters to let's say the past 10 years.

Are you Mick Dodge? Living in a cave? Trying to avoid the State?
Good god fella.
Stop with your ramblings.

Experience comes at a cost.
Many of us have invested tens of thousands of dollars to get that experience.
Walk the talk. Live the life.
Then come back here and tell us what the law is.

[oyster_777]

http://divorce-canada.ca/legal-grounds-for-divorce-in-canada

The only way you will be granted a Divorce in Canada is if you can prove to the courts that your marriage has broken down and cannot be repaired. Currently, there are two ways you can legally prove a marriage breakdown. That is by completion of a one year separation from your spouse, or by providing valid proof that adultery or abuse occurred. Most divorces in Canada are granted based on the completion of a one year separation – this is called a “No Fault Divorce”.

[Mackinaw]

Your point was made by others including myself several times prior to your post so how did you help here????????????????????????

Prior to yours also I believe.as long as he get the help he needs from a professional I'm happy .good luck to the OP it can be not to bad if handled correctly..

Mack

[schmedlap]

Because it is poor advise. Do you really think that the law in Canada does not provide a remedy for someone trying to hide his assets to avoid a court order as to where it is to go? If the OP followed your advise it would be obvious what he was doing. You think judges are hard on men in separation matters, try dealing with a judge when it is clear you have tried some funny business with your assets.
A good way to really **** off the court, and to ensure you will take a beating in the end. In fact the law in Alberta and Canada has a surfeit of statutory alternatives to defeat such schemes. Where did that come from?
Get a lawyer who specializes in "family law", and not one who just dabbles in it as a sideline.

[schmedlap]

A trust is a separate entity from you, the person. They can only come after you for property, maintenance, etc. The trust owns the property but lets you have use of it.
As the court can only take away property that is in your name in any kind of case, they cannot take away trust property of which you have use.

Friend of mine set this up before he got married. He was a rich character. He was earning in the high end of 6 figures a year as an operating systems architect. Because all the money went directly to the trust, he drew out of the trust $10000 a year for personal expenses, toothpaste, shampoo, that kind of stuff. The rest of the stuff he had was bought for him by the trust, and his name was nowhere on it.

After he got married, he kept buying things into the trust, not to his name. Wife divorced him, and tried taking everything. Judge treated it as an open and shut case. My friend kept everything. When she went on squawking that it wasn't fair, the judge told her that he cannot take from him property that wasn't his and give it to her, and that he didn't own the property, merely had the use of it. All she got out of that deal was $3000 a year.

Just an FYI, my friend didn't even get for a good lawyer. He had one that was laughed at by opposing counsel as being the bottom of the barrel and the worst lawyer in town. But all that poor laughingstock had to do was to keep filing motions stating that my friend didn't own any of the things being claimed but merely had the use of them. It was owned by trust xyz. That was it.

Trusts when set up right are extremely powerful entities. They have more rights than you and me as individuals. Trusts in their implied state are everywhere. There are in every transaction you make. It takes a while to understand, but it is very important understanding. I could say more, but I"m not qualified to give legal advice, and neither do I want to answer the barrage of questions that would come.
Sure, if it was set up BEFORE the matrimonial situation exists. But doing this as an afterthought, at the point of breakdown, is quite simply useless - it is a "fraudulent conveyance" in law, and is a complete waste of effort and substantial costs.

[Yycadm]

In case no one has mentioned it, GET A LAWYER!!! YESTERDAY! I guarantee you, she has.
The thing is about leaving the property, whether you are half owner or not; one side may see it as "leaving to be adult about it and protect the kids", the other side may see it as "abandonment of the marital home"...guess which side the courts like? Abandonment of the marital home is a double quick way of losing your rights to the home, both from an access standpoint, and from an investment standpoint. You can VERY easily be forced out on your proverbial A**, without a pot to P*** in, or a window to throw it out of.
Did I mention to GET A LAWYER??

[Joe Fehr]

Go talk to a reputable lawyer....

Mediation works if both parties are reasonable....
Make sure your credit doesn't take a huge hit, make sure she is paying half of everything right now or try and get it in writing that you are paying everything, as it will be split 50/50 unless you roll over.

Make sure you have your own bank account ASAP!! Makes for keeping records way easier and she can't touch it. If you have a joint account she can clean it out and there won't be much you can do about it.

Best advice here is go talk to a reputable lawyer!!!

It's tough man but it gets better!
My liver didn't like me for a long time after my divorce but it does get much better.

[Sundancefisher]

100% the guy would have to own the trust or part of the trust and she could go after that

No...you can have a beneficial interest in a trust and not an ownership interest.

From another viewpoint...anyone buying a recreational property in the US should buy under a trust relationship. That way upon death there is no triggering of inheritance laws.

What he said is perfectly plausible...whether there is any case law...I can not say.

[Canehdianman]

Or you could just represent him for free.
#JustSaying

I could, but I'm a corporate lawyer and know almost nothing about family law.

So instead, I thought I'd give him one of the first legitimately helpful (and factually correct) pieces of advice on his thread.

:thinking-006:

[j m]

As I am also going through this, I'll share what my experience has taught me. You can go through counselling and you might be able to salvage the marriage. No matter which way you go, put your kids interests before either parents. If you can't work it out...

#1 GET A LAWYER. Do not take any action that is contrary to their advice. I would talk to council before attempting to move back into the house. Keep a notebook for meetings and have all paperwork where it needs to be ahead of time.

#2 Close joint accounts/cards. The advice about putting money aside is wise; you'll be needing all you can get your hands on. Cancel your winter/spring/summer/fall holidays.

#3 Look at the last few years of bank transactions on joint accounts. Research dissipation of assets if you see any irregularities and highlight these for your lawyer. This can be a huge factor when it comes to division of assets.:sHa_shakeshout:

#4 If you have any employee assistance programs at work, use it. Your kids might be having a harder time with this than you are. Never forget that they are stuck in the middle of the mess and are looking for answers too.

#5 If you haven't already, GET A LAWYER

[Dacotensis]

Get a female lawyer!
They all play for keeps.
It's awsome watching two of them with 57 years experience between them go at it.

That alone is worth the price of admission :)

[Latin For Quack]

I'll throw out the same advice all of the other lawyers have said: Get a lawyer.

As for the debating on trusts. FL-17, item 10. Perhaps that provides all of the answer that people need on using a trust as suggested.

[gbart]

In case no one has mentioned it, GET A LAWYER!!! YESTERDAY! I guarantee you, she has.

My thoughts exactly^^

Very interesting and amusing thread .....:party0052:

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Has anyone said get a lawyer yet?

[BritishCanadian]

Came home today to get some stuff.

Found evidence (that i have kept, for legal purposes) She not only has a long going boyfriend, but also is randomly "pleasing" some other guy as well.

Felt hurt.
Felt ill.
Felt angry.
Phoned Lawyer
Advised to screw anything and everything you can out of her
Feel better.

[oyster_777]

Came home today to get some stuff.

Found evidence (that i have kept, for legal purposes) She not only has a long going boyfriend, but also is randomly "pleasing" some other guy as well.

Felt hurt.
Felt ill.
Felt angry.
Phoned Lawyer
Advised to screw anything and everything you can out of her
Feel better.

Fack. That really sucks. :( WTH is wrong with these people? No balls to break off the relationship... better to hurt the partner first. This makes me so mad to hear about this so often. Divorce business is alive and thriving.

[BritishCanadian]

Don't get me wrong it hurts like hell.

I left the UK to be with her here, all my family are back in the UK. Im essentially alone.

But I have to fight for myself now. Although I still love her, I don't want her. Now I have to do what is best for ME.

[rugatika]

Chin up and carry on my friend. You're not the first person to get screwed and you won't be the last. If it's got tits or tires, sooner or later it's gonna let you down. Good luck, and hopefully everything works out for the best.

[omega50]

I was able to use the threat of Occupation Rent as a bargaining chip when my ex kept possession of the matrimonial home.
The house was paid for and when I left I had to incur the costs of a place to live.
In the mean time she moved in some friends into the home we jointly owned and was charging them rent without any benefit to me.

[Knotter]

Brutal man!
A man who stands up for what is right is the best example a kid can have. Stand up for you and act with integrity... let the lawyer do the dirty work. Time in the woods might do you some good.

[Silverado04]

Sorry dude, that sucks hard.

Just because I don't think it's been said yet, an STD test probably isn't a bad idea either. Some of the no symptoms diseases can cause longer term issues... Just a thought.

[javlin101]

Came home today to get some stuff.

Found evidence (that i have kept, for legal purposes) She not only has a long going boyfriend, but also is randomly "pleasing" some other guy as well.

Felt hurt.
Felt ill.
Felt angry.
Phoned Lawyer
Advised to screw anything and everything you can out of her
Feel better.

Keep positive and look after your interests. I feel your pain as my exe's boyfriend was having dinner at home with my kids 3 weeks after I left the house. He started parking his summer car in my garage about the same time. Makes you feel like crap but you will over come and move on. talk to people close to you and don't keep it pent up.

I stopped paying the mortgage and taxes on the house and she tried to take me to court over it. During JDR a Judge told her good luck as I was paying rent with no chance of earning any return from renting. If she insisted on going down that road the judge explained to her that I could apply for lost revenue if the house were rented out. That is only one of many nightmares I have endured with my divorce.

Just try to be civil no matter what and do not give her a reason to turn ugly.

[Redfrog]

Sounds like you're lucky.

You could have wasted your whole life with her.