Cleaning a fish on the ice?

[bloopbloob]

Can you clean a fish on the ice and just leave the guts on the ice? Would this lead to a whole lot of scrutiny about whether or not you were chumming if a F&W officer came by? What about doing it when all your gear was packed up and heading home, could you kick it down the hole if you are not fishing any longer?

[Red Bullets]

Depending which lake you are at, lots of lakes have fish cleaning stations on shore.


Fish with size restrictions need to be intact for transporting so keep the head and tail on.

[bloopbloob]

Todays lake had nothing for fishing cleaning. I maybe keep two fish a year, so I'm not too clear on this. I kept it whole, but I would have liked to gut it on the ice, or somewhere, before it froze solid.

[RavYak]

There is no chance of being accused of chumming for leaving guts on ice... They aren't even remotely smilar, heck even if you were throwing the guts own the hole while fshing I highly doubt you would ever have any issues.

[huntsfurfish]

Or you could gut them on the ice and put guts in a bag for disposal at home.
Easy to pack out with other garbage a person may have.

[huntsfurfish]

There is no chance of being accused of chumming for leaving guts on ice... They aren't even remotely smilar, heck even if you were throwing the guts own the hole while fshing I highly doubt you would ever have any issues.

Hey Rav, wouldnt be so sure of that.
- It is unlawful to:
set out or use bait to attract fish unless it is attached to a hook used in angling.

Then see Definition of Bait.:)

[Habfan]

Put the guts down the hole and you feed all the little things that fish eat to grow !!!

[rafhone]

I believe in returning as much of the fish as possible. It can only do good things for the ecosystem after you have taken something out.

http://www.hilakers.org/pages/fishGuts.html
"What do you do with the fish guts?

The Hi Lakers don’t have an official position, but the surprising consensus among biologists, ecologists and other authorities is to throw the guts into deep water, where they decompose to provide essential nutrients and don’t attract animals. Throwing entrails into shallows where they are an eyesore is a no no. Puncturing the air sac and disposing in deep water, or packing out, is the way to go."

[bloopbloob]

I'd have liked to return the guts to the lake also, something would get an easy lunch, instead of them going in my garbage at home. I thought about maybe going back to one of my old holes 100ft away and doing it there to reduce the chance of chumming accusations, but I'm not clear on the laws regarding this, so chose to leave it whole. Also didn't want to leave them on the ice, there were families dragging kids around on the ice in sleds, didn't want to leave a mess for them either.

[Habfan]

I believe in returning as much of the fish as possible. It can only do good things for the ecosystem after you have taken something out.

http://www.hilakers.org/pages/fishGuts.html
"What do you do with the fish guts?

The Hi Lakers don’t have an official position, but the surprising consensus among biologists, ecologists and other authorities is to throw the guts into deep water, where they decompose to provide essential nutrients and don’t attract animals. Throwing entrails into shallows where they are an eyesore is a no no. Puncturing the air sac and disposing in deep water, or packing out, is the way to go."
Those are summer time ways !!!! :snapoutofit:

[rafhone]

I thought about maybe going back to one of my old holes 100ft away and doing it there to reduce the chance of chumming accusations,

Thats what I do. I drill a hole a ways off from where I'm fishing if i'm dumping guts/carcass.

[EZM]

Hey Rav, wouldnt be so sure of that.
- It is unlawful to:
set out or use bait to attract fish unless it is attached to a hook used in angling.

Then see Definition of Bait.:)

I'd agree with you as well ....... throwing guts down the same hole, or perhaps even a hole close to where you are fishing is unlawful.

[Isopod]

I don't keep many fish either, but I definitely like to gut them on the ice when I do keep them. You can kind of use snow and ice ice to scrape out anything left in the belly, which gets rid of all the mess. Plus after a long drive home, the last thing I want to do at home in the evening is gut fish.

I bring plastic grocery bags with me and put the guts and bloody snow in the bags for disposal hopefully at a garbage can or fish-cleaning station onshore, but at home if necessary. I understand the argument for returning the guts to the ecosystem, but a lot of non-fishers use lakes in winter too, and I don't think it's fair to leave a pile of fish guts for them to stumble across.

[58thecat]

Take the fish home whole, therefore there is no hassle if you are checked out by the fish cops. All questions are answered when you show it whole, leading to no suspicious acts if the guts are out etc. make it easy on yourself!

[58thecat]

I don't keep many fish either, but I definitely like to gut them on the ice when I do keep them. You can kind of use snow and ice ice to scrape out anything left in the belly, which gets rid of all the mess. Plus after a long drive home, the last thing I want to do at home in the evening is gut fish.

I bring plastic grocery bags with me and put the guts and bloody snow in the bags for disposal hopefully at a garbage can or fish-cleaning station onshore, but at home if necessary. I understand the argument for returning the guts to the ecosystem, but a lot of non-fishers use lakes in winter too, and I don't think it's fair to leave a pile of fish guts for them to stumble across.

Or follow this, I did not think of others using the lake for recreation, well said.

[markusbrainus]

Throwing the guts down a hole while ice fishing would be chumming, which is against the regulations. When gutting, make sure you leave evidence of fish species and total length (ie: nose to tail measurement is valid with a complete spine) so you can prove what you caught if stopped by the fish cops.

I've seen guys drill a hole in the ice that is half depth (ie: doesn't penetrate down to the water) and then drop all of their fish guts into it. This keeps the guts off the ice surface where someone might step in them.

I think it'd be fine to just drop the guts on the ice surface too. If a crow, magpie, or coyote doesn't eat them first, they'll just fall into the lake in the spring and decompose.

[EZM]

I've seen guys drill a hole in the ice that is half depth (ie: doesn't penetrate down to the water) and then drop all of their fish guts into it. This keeps the guts off the ice surface where someone might step in them.



I've seen a few morons drill a few half holes in my time too. Even when I drill a half hole to stand up my auger for the day, I make sure and drill through at the end of the day so the hole floods and re freezes.

Drilling a hole half way into the ice, is a perfect way to have some unsuspecting jerk break his ankle. I hate when people do that, it's just stupid, dangerous, creates a weak point, a tire hazard, and just plain stupid.

[TROLLER]

you can clean a fish and return the guts to the water only in the body of water that it came from. Had CO come up to me on more than one occasion while I was gutting fish and throwing guts back in the water.

That also includes Minniwonka in Banff.

Just don't drop them down your hole then start jigging. Then it could be construed as chumming.

[cube]

Can you clean a fish on the ice and just leave the guts on the ice? Would this lead to a whole lot of scrutiny about whether or not you were chumming if a F&W officer came by? What about doing it when all your gear was packed up and heading home, could you kick it down the hole if you are not fishing any longer?

Please Please Please DON”T leave fish entrails in/on most of Alberta’s lakes. Allot of Alberta’s lakes have an over nutrient problem which can be seen as massive algal blooms etc. We also have a problem on most of our lakes with long retention times (poor lake flushing) e.g. Pigeon lake’s retention time is over 100 years so once the nutrients get in to the eco system it takes a very long time to get it out. One other reason not to clean your fish waste back into the lake in winter is BOD for the lake would go up. In other words rotting fish waste will use up allot of oxygen that could be better used for preventing winter kill.
Now in nutrient poor lakes please do put you fish waste back into deep water etc. but probably not in the winter.

[huntsfurfish]

Please Please Please DON”T leave fish entrails in/on most of Alberta’s lakes. Allot of Alberta’s lakes have an over nutrient problem which can be seen as massive algal blooms etc. We also have a problem on most of our lakes with long retention times (poor lake flushing) e.g. Pigeon lake’s retention time is over 100 years so once the nutrients get in to the eco system it takes a very long time to get it out. One other reason not to clean your fish waste back into the lake in winter is BOD for the lake would go up. In other words rotting fish waste will use up allot of oxygen that could be better used for preventing winter kill.
Now in nutrient poor lakes please do put you fish waste back into deep water etc. but probably not in the winter.

Exactly, why contribute.

[AlbertaCutthroat]

Please Please Please DON”T leave fish entrails in/on most of Alberta’s lakes. Allot of Alberta’s lakes have an over nutrient problem which can be seen as massive algal blooms etc. We also have a problem on most of our lakes with long retention times (poor lake flushing) e.g. Pigeon lake’s retention time is over 100 years so once the nutrients get in to the eco system it takes a very long time to get it out. One other reason not to clean your fish waste back into the lake in winter is BOD for the lake would go up. In other words rotting fish waste will use up allot of oxygen that could be better used for preventing winter kill.
Now in nutrient poor lakes please do put you fish waste back into deep water etc. but probably not in the winter.

A few rotting fish is such a small factor when you look at entire lake this argument is completely null and void. Also, this is not the case for the majority of Alberta lakes, look at the big picture. Pigeon is just an example of an unfortunately managed over-fished lake with rich people and farmers dumping fertilizer in, not typical of the rest of the province. Guts are fine on the surface too, birds and coyotes clean them up pretty quickly. I submerge them in less productive lakes as the nutrients can be significant in mountain ecosystems. When i keep a limit of big walleye, whites, perch, or burbs it prevents more waste from going to the landfill by leaving it at the lake.

[thumper]

I like to leave as much of the fish in the lake as I can - to 'return it from whence it came' for natures's recycling.
Of course, you could take it home, double wrap it in plastic bags and throw it out with your garbage to spend the next few centuries buried in a landfill.

[cube]

A few rotting fish is such a small factor when you look at entire lake this argument is completely null and void. Also, this is not the case for the majority of Alberta lakes, look at the big picture. Pigeon is just an example of an unfortunately managed over-fished lake with rich people and farmers dumping fertilizer in, not typical of the rest of the province. Guts are fine on the surface too, birds and coyotes clean them up pretty quickly. I submerge them in less productive lakes as the nutrients can be significant in mountain ecosystems. When i keep a limit of big walleye, whites, perch, or burbs it prevents more waste from going to the landfill by leaving it at the lake.

What part of the province do you live in / fish? Perhaps this is not a problem where you fish and like I said if you fish in nutrient deficient lakes have at her.

Around here the Majority of our lakes do have this "problem" and our fish waste gets composted and not land filled. I'm also not sure if the waste of fish is insignificant to the BOD of a lake at the end of the ice season. Pigeon has a quota of 5407 walleye and last year had a white fish quota of 50,000 kg of white fish. If all those entrails get dumped back into the lake I think you would indeed have an effect if that happens during ice over. The problem becomes even worse on smaller shallower lakes such as Nakamun, Isle, battle, etc. etc. etc.

[AlbertaCutthroat]

What part of the province do you live in / fish? Perhaps this is not a problem where you fish and like I said if you fish in nutrient deficient lakes have at her.

Around here the Majority of our lakes do have this "problem" and our fish waste gets composted and not land filled. I'm also not sure if the waste of fish is insignificant to the BOD of a lake at the end of the ice season. Pigeon has a quota of 5407 walleye and last year had a white fish quota of 50,000 kg of white fish. If all those entrails get dumped back into the lake I think you would indeed have an effect if that happens during ice over. The problem becomes even worse on smaller shallower lakes such as Nakamun, Isle, battle, etc. etc. etc.

Not even close to significant in terms of BOD, you really need an appreciation of scale when looking at the issues in those lakes. I fish all over the province, but actively avoid the area around Dreadmonton. If i wanted to spend time on the ice with that many other people I'd go to a hockey game, leaving central Alberta was the best thing I ever did as a fisherman ha ha. I buy some of the concerns regarding other user groups but really don't think it's a significant worry. If someone can't handle a few fish guts on the ice they probably have more serious issues to deal with. BOD is a really null and void concern when discussing a few fish guts.

[iliketrout]

Do you guys think the guts will be around long enough to decompose? I would think they would be gobbled up pretty quickly.

When I do keep a fish with no legal length, I usually drop the guts, head and tail at the end of the fishing day so I don't have to dispose of it when I get home.

If the fish requires a legal length, I drop the guts only and finish the cleaning job at the end of the day.

[Talking moose]

Anyone remember those 5 foot high piles of burbot left on the ice during the winter?

[cube]

Do you guys think the guts will be around long enough to decompose? I would think they would be gobbled up pretty quickly.

When I do keep a fish with no legal length, I usually drop the guts, head and tail at the end of the fishing day so I don't have to dispose of it when I get home.

If the fish requires a legal length, I drop the guts only and finish the cleaning job at the end of the day.

The question involved kicking the guts etc. down the hole, so yes I do think they will likely decompose.

[fish99]

Anyone remember those 5 foot high piles of burbot left on the ice during the winter?

pigeon lake would have piles of frozen burbot so high you could damage your truck if you hit a pile .

[RavYak]

Hey Rav, wouldnt be so sure of that.
- It is unlawful to:
set out or use bait to attract fish unless it is attached to a hook used in angling.

Then see Definition of Bait.:)

If you want to be a real stickler it is illegal to throw anything that gives off scent/flavour that attracts fish into a lake unless it is attached to a hook(that is how the actual law is written). That means if you throw leftover minnows in the lake when done fishing, guts after cleaning fish, juice/pop you don't feel like drinking, lunch leftovers you don't want to eat, fruit peels and much more then you are actually breaking the law... I am guessing most if not all of us on here have broken this ambiguous law at one point or another...

My point is that if you happened to be checked by a CO while cleaning a fish and throwing guts down the hole while still fishing I doubt anything would happen...

[The Fisherman Guy]

Doesn't have to be scented, to be considered chumming or littering for that matter.

This thread might prove useful:

Waste disposal in lakes (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=56745&highlight=shells)

[huntsfurfish]

If you want to be a real stickler it is illegal to throw anything that gives off scent/flavour that attracts fish into a lake unless it is attached to a hook(that is how the actual law is written). That means if you throw leftover minnows in the lake when done fishing, guts after cleaning fish, juice/pop you don't feel like drinking, lunch leftovers you don't want to eat, fruit peels and much more then you are actually breaking the law... I am guessing most if not all of us on here have broken this ambiguous law at one point or another...

My point is that if you happened to be checked by a CO while cleaning a fish and throwing guts down the hole while still fishing I doubt anything would happen...

Not being a stickler.:) Just going by what you said in your first post.
I think that would be a direct challenge to most F&W Officers or CO's.

Wanna bet? JK LOL I would like to see you get out of that.:)

ps Not trying to challenge your authority.:)

[BPman]

So what is "worse": I catch a fish and put the entrails back into the lake as a micro-nutrient source or I release a fish that I could have kept/killed and at some later date it dies of natural causes and the whole carcass goes to the bottom to decompose to nutrients. Either way I liken this debate to condemning a cigarette smoker for contributing to global climate change.

[RavYak]

Doesn't have to be scented, to be considered chumming or littering for that matter.

This thread might prove useful:

Waste disposal in lakes (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=56745&highlight=shells)

Littering no but chumming/bait use yes. The scent factor comes from the laws regarding bait use and are below for those interested.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-246/index.html

“bait”
“bait” means a substance that attracts fish by scent or flavour and includes a lure to which scent or flavouring has been added. (appât)

8. No person shall place or cause to be placed in any waters bait of any kind unless it is attached to a hook.

If you combine this with the environmental waste laws TFG posted it becomes pretty clear it is pretty much illegal to put anything in the water...

When it comes to putting guts down the hole and chumming the only way I actually see you getting into trouble is if you were to chop them into little pieces and dump them down a hole while a CO watches you...

And huntsfurfish I am not saying this to challenge CO's... I am saying it because CO's don't enforce a lot of these crazy ambigous laws... Much like your beloved culling lol... Use common sense and be respectful and it is highly unlikely you will get yourself into trouble in a situation like this. Or take a garbage bag and take the guts home with you, its really the only legal way to dispose of them and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a law against that...

[huntsfurfish]

Littering no but chumming/bait use yes. The scent factor comes from the laws regarding bait use and are below for those interested.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-246/index.html





If you combine this with the environmental waste laws TFG posted it becomes pretty clear it is pretty much illegal to put anything in the water...

When it comes to putting guts down the hole and chumming the only way I actually see you getting into trouble is if you were to chop them into little pieces and dump them down a hole while a CO watches you...

And huntsfurfish I am not saying this to challenge CO's... I am saying it because CO's don't enforce a lot of these crazy ambigous laws... Much like your beloved culling lol... Use common sense and be respectful and it is highly unlikely you will get yourself into trouble in a situation like this. Or take a garbage bag and take the guts home with you, its really the only legal way to dispose of them and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a law against that...



But... laws are crazy and ambiguous? Oh well.

Would still love to see you put it down a hole you are fishing in, and argue with a CO standing there. lol

Anyway, good luck out fishin!

[iliketrout]

The question involved kicking the guts etc. down the hole, so yes I do think they will likely decompose.

Re-reading my post I guess it was unclear. I meant that if the guts were dropped back down the hole, I don't think they would sit there long enough to decompose, I would think they would be gobbled up PDQ.

I personally don't see it causing any detrimental effects, but if someone can prove otherwise I would reconsider doing it. Seems to me that organic waste from fishing is going to happen, whether it's guts from a harvested fish, lost bait, or even angler-caused fish mortality.

[Outdoorfanatic]

on the ice not chumming. The plus is by the time you get home the ravens and gulls will have it gone. Unless of course they are already full from all the winter kill that's wasted from our fisheries people denying us the benefit of having a commercial fishery now that they've closed Alberta's commercial nets. And if your of the persausion that all the fish should be left for anglers and anglers alone then I'd like to know how you ethically justify 1000s of pounds of fish going strictly to the birds.

[WayneChristie]

on the ice not chumming. The plus is by the time you get home the ravens and gulls will have it gone. Unless of course they are already full from all the winter kill that's wasted from our fisheries people denying us the benefit of having a commercial fishery now that they've closed Alberta's commercial nets. And if your of the persausion that all the fish should be left for anglers and anglers alone then I'd like to know how you ethically justify 1000s of pounds of fish going strictly to the birds.

you have gulls in the winter? where do you see thousands of pounds of dead fish getting eaten by birds? just curious Id like to get some pictures of the birds. or the fish. maybe even both. or of people taking pictures of the people taking pictures.

[EZM]

you have gulls in the winter?

Not all of Alberta's 12 species of Gulls migrate.

Of those species that do migrate, not all individuals migrate each year. Migration can be driven by age, sex, individual health and local conditions.

There are gulls around Edmonton all winter, albeit, in much reduced numbers.

Just thought I'd chirp in ........ one of my projects from back in the school days ..... makes me sound smart ......... and No I'm not going to go look for a Gull for a picture ......... I'm sure they are around some school yard somewhere at the lunch bell.

As a side note .... I agree with you ..... don't leave a gut pile ..... or a human poop for that matter, I tripped over a frozen log last season ..... thing came out of a giant and made my toe nail black and blue ....... someone needs to lay off the meat n' cheese up here.:)

[slivers86]

I normally walk over to shore and gut my fish at shore. Most of the time, I'm not fishing in the middle of a lake... except chain :-)