Why do Ontario winter steelheaders use longer rods than us Westerners?

[greylynx]

I was going through some Ontario steelheading websites, and wonder why our fellow fisherman in Ontario and beyond use 13 to 15 foot rods for steelhead?

10 feet for western steelhead seems to be average.

[lakerfisher]

There are no steelhead in Ontario so technically they use long trout rods.. In BC they use steelhead rods..

[EZM]

There are no steelhead in Ontario so technically they use long trout rods.. In BC they use steelhead rods..

WRONG

You do realize "steelhead" is a disambiguation for Oncorhynchus mykiss ..... or rainbow trout.

The subspecies found down east, O. m. irideus, is the same subspecies as the coastal common species.

These fish are genetically identical as the strain the great lakes came from, as an introduced species,

........... from ..........

wait for it ...........

here it comes ............

....... that's right ....

.... the west coast.

[EZM]

to OP's original questions ..... sorry to derail the attempted derail of misinformation .......

I think it's a regional thing ....... simply people in different parts get used to slightly different equipment. They also catch steelhead using flashers quite often, and having a longer rod to deal with the dipsy, flasher and leader and lure (which can be 8 ft of stuff) requires a longer rod.

[EORE]

to OP's original questions ..... sorry to derail the attempted derail of misinformation .......

I think it's a regional thing ....... simply people in different parts get used to slightly different equipment. They also catch steelhead using flashers quite often, and having a longer rod to deal with the dipsy, flasher and leader and lure (which can be 8 ft of stuff) requires a longer rod.

More misinfromation!

The longest rods are very light action float rods often used with center pin reels. The length allows for lighter line and better drift control. 10 feet might be what salmon fishers use in your experience but many people chase fish with much lOnger gear on the coast.

[Mudslide]

Geez you have an answer to every question. Many Ontario river Steelheaders use center pin reels with extremely light line. THAT is why they use longer rods.

[Mudslide]

You beat me to it but you are 100 percent correct.

More misinfromation!

The longest rods are very light action float rods often used with center pin reels. The length allows for lighter line and better drift control. 10 feet might be what salmon fishers use in your experience but many people chase fish with much lOnger gear on the coast.

[EZM]

More misinfromation!

The longest rods are very light action float rods often used with center pin reels. The length allows for lighter line and better drift control. 10 feet might be what salmon fishers use in your experience but many people chase fish with much lOnger gear on the coast.

Ok ..... cool .... lol

I lived out east for almost ten years and caught steelhead all the time using a center pin and longer rod.

The reason you mention is only ONE of a few reasons to use a longer rod.

On the great lakes you are likely to use a dipsy diver or downrigger along with a flasher that requires a longer rod. That's a fact. That was one of the reasons I provided.

Are you right and I'm wrong? lol.

My point is you just don't see as many longer rods or centerpins out here on the prairies despite the fact that these same techniques would work here under similar conditions.

Guys who do fish for lakers, like me, will use riggers and dipsys and do use longer rods ...... but that's about the only place you see this type of gear on the prairies.

At the end of the day it's a regional thing. That was my point.

I'm not sure how that differs from your answer with the exception of the mention of a reel .....???? but hey ...... whatever.

[EZM]

You beat me to it but you are 100 percent correct.

really?

you mean guys don't need a longer rod to run a longer string of gear?

really? how does that make my comment misinformed?

I guess I was wrong and everyone is doing it wrong.

Thanks for echoing in ..... lol ...... solid gold pipe up fail.

[michaelmicallef]

Its called a noodle rod or drift rod with a centre pin reel (palming reel). Used for making long drifts with a float.( large strike indicator) . The set up allows the use of light line, 6 lb , to absorb the shock of a large fish. With a drift rod one would bottom bounce row bags or a fly. I do in on the bow minuses the row bag. It's a killer way to fish a leech pattern or any othe fly close to the bottom. I can fish a 100 ft stretch of water or more. And the drag on the reel is the best you can have as its your finger. Very seldom does a fish break of unless there is a nick in the line. The biggest rainbow I have ever caught was 20 lbs in a small river. It's a blast.

[SCHOOCH]

Oh how i miss my noodle rod and drift reels.......nothing like hooking into a torpedo with a 12 foot rod and 4 pound test !!!!

[Mudslide]

Don't take yourself so seriously. The context of the question and the specific mention of 13 and 15 ft rods made it quite clear that he was asking about river fishing for steelhead. It wasn't just that your answer was wrong (which in context it most certainly was) but the condescending attitude that you showed to the other poster really rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe it's me and the fact that I'm sick. I think I might need a snickers.:love0025:

really?

you mean guys don't need a longer rod to run a longer string of gear?

really? how does that make my comment misinformed?

I guess I was wrong and everyone is doing it wrong.

Thanks for echoing in ..... lol ...... solid gold pipe up fail.

[huntsfurfish]

Ok ..... cool .... lol

I lived out east for almost ten years and caught steelhead all the time using a center pin and longer rod.

The reason you mention is only ONE of a few reasons to use a longer rod.

On the great lakes you are likely to use a dipsy diver or downrigger along with a flasher that requires a longer rod. That's a fact. That was one of the reasons I provided.

Are you right and I'm wrong? lol.

My point is you just don't see as many longer rods or centerpins out here on the prairies despite the fact that these same techniques would work here under similar conditions.

Guys who do fish for lakers, like me, will use riggers and dipsys and do use longer rods ...... but that's about the only place you see this type of gear on the prairies.

At the end of the day it's a regional thing. That was my point.

I'm not sure how that differs from your answer with the exception of the mention of a reel .....???? but hey ...... whatever.


Yes you are WRONG :);) Check OP's question
Most dipsy rods and downrigger rods are 10.5' and under.:)
While Drift, noodle and Float rods get considerably longer.

[EZM]

It wasn't my intent to be condescending. It is very difficult to get "tone and intent" within the written form. It was, however, wrong information. I felt compelled to respond ..... so maybe I need a snickers.

The fact that my good ol' buddy huntsfurfish told me I totally missed the point confirms my suspicion ......... I will go eat a snickers.

There are aa few reasons to use a longer rod, for several techniques not as common out here - like downrigging and dipsying AND of course river drift/float fishing ..... I get it .....

I am glad you felt compelled to rein me in ...... probably not the worst thing for me today ....

[huntsfurfish]

LOL

I hear ya. Sometime what I say doesnt come across well either.:)

Then again my punctuation and spelling aint so great too.:):sHa_shakeshout:

[Mudslide]

Hey no worries. I'm glad you share what you do here so don't stop. I've learned a few things from you myself. These forums are a great place to learn about new techniques and technologies. Too many good posters have been run off or don't post anymore over petty disagreements. Thanks for being a good sport. Here's to a happy New Year and tight lines for all.

It wasn't my intent to be condescending. It is very difficult to get "tone and intent" within the written form. It was, however, wrong information. I felt compelled to respond ..... so maybe I need a snickers.

The fact that my good ol' buddy huntsfurfish told me I totally missed the point confirms my suspicion ......... I will go eat a snickers.

There are aa few reasons to use a longer rod, for several techniques not as common out here - like downrigging and dipsying AND of course river drift/float fishing ..... I get it .....

I am glad you felt compelled to rein me in ...... probably not the worst thing for me today ....

[ESOXangler]

They're also nice in tighter streams with shorter runs. I miss those days! Or 50 fish one day in April, all I bet between 8-14 pounds! Great day, used up all my spawn sacks!

[lakerfisher]

WRONG

You do realize "steelhead" is a disambiguation for Oncorhynchus mykiss ..... or rainbow trout.

The subspecies found down east, O. m. irideus, is the same subspecies as the coastal common species.

These fish are genetically identical as the strain the great lakes came from, as an introduced species,

........... from ..........

wait for it ...........

here it comes ............

....... that's right ....

.... the west coast.


You can call them what ever you want but a true steelhead spends most of its adult life in the salt water then returns to fresh water. In fact for most of their life they are similar in appearance but not the same. It wasn't until 1986 that they were classified the same I would guess it was to appease the east and make them feel good about the fact they were indeed catching steelhead.

No true steelhead are found only on the west coast easterners catch Rainbow trout.

[EORE]

You can call them what ever you want but a true steelhead spends most of its adult life in the salt water then returns to fresh water. In fact for most of their life they are similar in appearance but not the same. It wasn't until 1986 that they were classified the same I would guess it was to appease the east and make them feel good about the fact they were indeed catching steelhead.

No true steelhead are found only on the west coast easterners catch Rainbow trout.

Wrong. The Russians can explain why.

[SCHOOCH]

I left Ont in 92 and i heard people refer on occasion to the rainbows as steelhead but most of the guys if hit the rivers with always just called them rainbows......maybe i did catch steelhead YAY LOL

[EZM]

You can call them what ever you want but a true steelhead spends most of its adult life in the salt water then returns to fresh water. In fact for most of their life they are similar in appearance but not the same. It wasn't until 1986 that they were classified the same I would guess it was to appease the east and make them feel good about the fact they were indeed catching steelhead.

No true steelhead are found only on the west coast easterners catch Rainbow trout.

It doesn't matter what "you call them" or what "they" did to appease the "easterners" they are the same species ..... period. End Statement.

Common names mean nothing in taxonomy or classification of species ...... and steelhead and rainbow are, in fact, without dispute, the same species.

Like I said earlier "steelhead are simply anadromous form of the rainbow trout" ...... real simple. No magic here.


Family: Salmonidae
Genus: Oncorhynchus
Species: mykiss

The reason they were reclassified into the same species about 20 years ago is because we were, finally, able to definitively prove they are genetically identical with variations only present only in "feature traits" - like why humans skin color, hair, eyes might be different yet we are the same species.

20 years ago we were ignorant and wrong. Just like you are now.

We did not have the technology prior to that period to study further (deeper) into the genetic chain to confirm this without some doubt. That's why they were wrongly classified, by many biologists, as separate and distinct species.

Developments in genetic research, however, changed this and we can, without a doubt, say these are one and the same.




http://fishandboat.com/pafish/steelhead/id.htm

http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v86/n5/full/6888670a.html

[lakerfisher]

Except that according to science steelhead are "anadromous" which means "descending from the sea" which eastern rainbow trout are not.

Don't take my word for it do your research.

[fishman]

Gee I live on vancouver island and most fly fishers use a switch rod or a spay rod biggest reason is no room to backcast also will cast longer also a lot easier on the body. But being a sensative tip with a sink tip u can feel the light bite
If u dry fly the hits r harder
Using a spinning rod for steelies r generally longer to have a fast acting tip with a butt section thick enough for a big fish

I'm going by what I've seen only moved there this year
People I fish with use Spey rods from 12' to 14'
Out here we have small rivers to big I wouldn't use a rod smaller then 10' a lot easier to play big fish

[EZM]

Except that according to science steelhead are "anadromous" which means "descending from the sea" which eastern rainbow trout are not.

Don't take my word for it do your research.

Research ???....... like the wikipedia "look up" you just did that demonstrates clearly that you don't understand the meaning of as it relates to this particular context? .... is that what you are suggesting I do?

Actually my dissertation and research was, ironically, related to habitat and behaviors of anadromous subspecies ...... but what do I know anyways.

The bottom line is that O.mykiss can/will move to and from salt water IF there is no physical barrier. To say that they are two separate species is wrong.

I have nothing else to add ...... believe what you want ....... be right ...... I really don't have the talent to make you comprehend this simple concept ..... it is clearly beyond your ability to understand.

Peace. Eat a snickers ..... I did ..... it was good.

[grinr]

WOW,the old "REAL west cost vs. wannabe Great Lakes Steelhead" debate never gets old does it,lol.:rolleyes:
IMHO,GL Steel are every bit as much a steelhead as any native west coaster,but it seems to rub certain west coast fish snobs the wrong way?They are the SAME fish....period,only diff being they make their living in freshwater,inland seas.....just like GL Cohos,GL Chinooks,GL Atlantics,pinks...and any other introduced species that I may have missed.They ARE Steelhead....get over it.....and Newsflash for ya,the PNW does NOT own the monopoly on REAL Steel.....they've been introduced to more than 100 countries on every continent with the exception of Antarctica,and REAL Sea Run Steelhead are even found these days in several rivers in Quebec,Gaspe,and the Maritimes.

Anyhow....back to the OP...assuming you were in fact referring to river fishing with noodle rods/center pins....I think it's just more of a regional thing?Centerpins with either bait or flies,often multiple flies,is indeed the method of preference in most(all) of the Ontario GL tribs that I've fished,which would include every Southern Ontario trib from eastern Lk. O to Niagara to Erie to Georgian Bay.In fact,I was always the oddball with my single hand flyrod back in those days(80s-90s) and would conservatively estimate that us flyrodders were outnumbered by centerpinners 20:1?Cant say for certain that's still the case these days given the growth in popularity of 2H Spey and Switch rods in recent years,but regardless....centerpinning is in fact a very effective and efficient method of presenting flies or bait drag free to river fish. Actually I've always been puzzled with given the fact that nymph ing is so popular here on the Bow,that Centerpins aren't more popular(or popular at all?)I'm sure I could count on ONE hand the number of pinners I've seen on the Bow in the last 4years,vs. literally THOUSANDS of nymphers going about it the "hard way" with traditional fly gear.
I think another reason centerpin outfits are more popular around the GLs vs BC might be that pinners really shine in presenting multi-fly offerings,drag and tangle free.Pinners certainly have a following in BC,but the single barbless fly rule I think likely makes pin outfits less of a necessity vs. presenting multi-fly rigs on GL tribs?
In that regard,where multi-fly rigs are in fact legal here in AB,personally,I think if somebody wants to call themselves a "flyfisher" and then drift a SJW and fly or two under a Bow River bobber(indibobactor,haha),you might as well just set yourself up with a decent centerpin outfit and use the best tool for the job?

[CenterPin]

Basicly guys on the west coast use shorter rods due to the size of the rivers and fish. Rivers on the coast are generally bigger and fish actually hold in different type of runs, plus steelhead/ salmon tend to be larger. Ideally a longer rod is better in both senarios but getting a rod in excess of 14/15 feet that can handle the fish and rivers of the coast and light enough to use all day is really tough. The only rod I have found and only rod id use is a 15 foot in a glx blank but is in the 800 dollar range. Ive yet to find a reasonable rod for chinook, any rod of that length that can handle large chinooks is a nightmare to use all day. Hope that helps.

[58thecat]

Prettier women!:)