Terrorists supporting terrorists in Canada.

[trooper]

SUN EXCLUSIVE - Canadian Muslim group funnelled $300K to Hamas-linked charity: Documents MUSLIM ASSOCIATION OF CANADA HEADQUARTERS Credits: Dave Thomas/Toronto Sun/QMI Agency
BRIAN DALY | QMI AGENCY

MONTREAL - One of the country's largest Muslim organizations gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to a Hamas-linked charity, and vocally supported an Egyptian Islamist group, QMI Agency has learned.

The Muslim Association of Canada (MAC), based in the Toronto suburb of Mississauga, Ontario owns or operates at least 20 Islamic schools and 15 mosques in Ontario, Alberta and Quebec.

MAC's website says the group is centred around "holistic educational and spiritual development" and "has no organizational link or affiliation with other organizations."

However, QMI obtained an RCMP search warrant linking the group to IRFAN-Canada, a banned charity group and a listed terrorist organization also based in Mississauga.

The Mounties, citing Canada Revenue Agency disclosure, say: "The Muslim Association of Canada (MAC) provided $296,514 between 2001 and 2010" to IRFAN-Canada."

The Conservative government declared IRFAN-Canada a terrorist group on April 29, 2014 -- one day after the Mounties raided the charity.

The government said "between 2005 and 2009, IRFAN-Canada transferred approximately $14.6-million worth of resources to various organizations associated with Hamas."

Hamas's charter calls for the destruction of Israel.

IRFAN-Canada's Ottawa-based lawyer, Yavar Hameed, had no comment on Tuesday. The group is fighting its terrorist designation in Federal Court.

The Mounties obtained their warrant as part of Project Sapphire, involving surveillance, wiretaps and undercover operatives in the Toronto and Montreal area. The warrant led to a raid on IRFAN's Mississauga headquarters and a Montreal apartment on April 28, 2014. Investigators seized computer files, donation forms, and promotional videos that "demonize Israel."

The RCMP wouldn't say if its investigation is ongoing.

The Muslim Association of Canada bills itself as a "religious, educational, social, charitable and non-profit organization" whose "roots are deeply enshrined in the message of Prophet Mohammed."

However, the 113-page RCMP warrant shows the Mississauga group was under police surveillance for alleged terrorist financing as recently as last year. The warrant mentions an alleged transaction that took place at Al-Radwah Mosque, a MAC facility in north-end Montreal.

"(REDACTED) was observed on March 6, 2014, exiting the MAC location in Montreal carrying an 8 1/2 by 14-inch yellow envelope in his hand," the warrant reads. "It is possible that (REDACTED) is still accepting donations on behalf of IRFAN from the MAC in Montreal."

On the public stage, MAC has spoken out against violence, most recently in October when terrorists killed a soldier at Parliament Hill and another near Montreal.

At the time, MAC said it was "horrified by these acts of violence" and "stand(s) with all Canadians in condemning these attacks."

The group has also condemned violence by Islamic State (ISIS), killing or driving out thousands in Iraq and Syria.

At the same time, MAC has expressed open support for Hamas' ideological forebears, the Muslim Brotherhood, which Egypt considers a terrorist organization. Older versions of MAC's website list the Muslim Brotherhood's founder, Imam Hassan al-Banna, as a major influence.

"MAC ... strives to practice Islam as embodied in the Qur'an and the teachings of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and as understood in its contemporary, comprehensive, and balanced context by the late Imam Hassan Albanna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood," the website previously read.

Last year, as details emerged about the IRFAN charity's links to Hamas, MAC changed its statement. It now simply reads that Al-Banna "had a deep impact on much of the Muslim world."

MAC operates schools in major cities including Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Calgary and Edmonton.

They include Ottawa's Abraar Islamic School, which made headlines in 2005 when Ontario's education ministry began an investigation over a student's anti-Jewish writing project.

A MAC leader met by QMI in November dismissed all of the allegations and even denied he was part of the group.

Lazhar Aissaoui, director of Dar Al-Iman School in Montreal, threatened to call the police when a journalist approached him at the facility.

"There is no Muslim school here belonging to the Muslim Association," Aissaoui claimed.

However, according to Quebec's land register, the Muslim Association of Canada has owned the building that houses the private school since 2002.

- With files from Hugo Joncas


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[Halfton]

And this comes as a SURPRISE to anyone how?

:sign0176:

Jim

[Matt L.]

Surprise? No. Disappointment? Yes.

[Grizzly Adams]

Then we wonder why people get paranoid about Muslims in general. :confused:

Grizz

[canadiantdi]

Wow shocker.

It's not just hamas that wants Israel wiped off the map folks. I'm thinking that many do, but just don't say it...

[silverdoctor]

Read the comments, just more fear mongering against the muslim community. Since 2001 they've been fed money by terror groups? You would think statistically that there would have been more terror attacks on our soil by now?

While people are griping about muslims, we're trading more real freedoms for the sake of the illusion of security. Soon the charter of rights won't exist anymore.

See bill C-44. If you don't want to read the bill, here's a great synopsis.


http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/views-expressed/2014/11/anti-terror-bill-trades-freedom-illusion-security

[Kanonfodder]

Keep it on topic gents

[rugatika]

That's pretty disturbing, Disappointing is the perfect word to describe it. Not a huge surprise I suppose, but the optimist in me was hoping otherwise. Sadly, I am starting to hear more and more about links from seemingly benign groups in North America to terrorist groups overseas. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/393614/cair-terror-group-daniel-pipes

And I agree Silver, we don't need any more monitoring of our lives than we already have...in fact I would argue we need way less gov't snooping in our backyards. (way less gov't period actually) We shouldn't be letting terrorism affect our way of life.

[Tomyx]

I`m in shock :(

[Macdrizzle]

Remember guys, they are "moderate" musims. So it's okay!

[KGB]

That's pretty disturbing, Disappointing is the perfect word to describe it. Not a huge surprise I suppose, but the optimist in me was hoping otherwise. Sadly, I am starting to hear more and more about links from seemingly benign groups in North America to terrorist groups overseas. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/393614/cair-terror-group-daniel-pipes

And I agree Silver, we don't need any more monitoring of our lives than we already have...in fact I would argue we need way less go[B]v't snooping in our backyards. (way less gov't period actually) We shouldn't be letting terrorism affect our way of life.
I agree, we shouldn't be letting terrorism affect our way of life BUT we shouldn't be turning a blind eye to it too! We should be more vigilant to who are our friends and who are our enemies....

[babybuck]

I cannot say for certain what the final destination of any of my cash charitable donations are and whether the cash I donated is ear marked by that group for donation to another. I just sign a cheque to the groups I wish to support and trust they will use it for some purpose in line with their mission statement. For all I knoiw Suzuki may get his paws on some of it down the line. how embarrassing. :( I'm not convinced the MAC was intentionally providing money to terrorists, and I certainly wouldn't expect their donors to know where the money ended up. Enough with the pigeon-holing all muslims BS.

[Kanonfodder]

I cannot say for certain what the final destination of any of my cash charitable donations are and whether the cash I donated is ear marked by that group for donation to another. I just sign a cheque to the groups I wish to support and trust they will use it for some purpose in line with their mission statement. For all I knoiw Suzuki may get his paws on some of it down the line. how embarrassing. :( I'm not convinced the MAC was intentionally providing money to terrorists, and I certainly wouldn't expect their donors to know where the money ended up. Enough with the pigeon-holing all muslims BS.

First off you are not Muslim, you are a troll this is your 9 th pathetic attempt at returning as a different user since you were banned

[James Henry]

Hamas and Israel = terrorists fighting terrorists. :snapoutofit:
I don't think one side is better than the other. Canadian money should not go to support either side until peace is reached, but that's not going to happen.
Just my 2c

[DBCooper.]

Hamas and Israel = terrorists fighting terrorists. :snapoutofit:
I don't think one side is better than the other. Canadian money should not go to support either side until peace is reached, but that's not going to happen.
Just my 2c

Absolutely agree.

[canadiantdi]

Hamas and Israel = terrorists fighting terrorists. :snapoutofit:
I don't think one side is better than the other. Canadian money should not go to support either side until peace is reached, but that's not going to happen.
Just my 2c

I think we should support our allies who are constantly under attack.

[igorot]

You are just still fortunate. Unlike us we are doomed that we have a president with no balls.

http://getrealphilippines.com/blog/2015/01/mindanao-carnage-will-the-brutal-police-massacre-put-an-end-to-the-misguided-fantasy-of-bangsamoro-autonomy/

[Okotokian]

The Mounties, citing Canada Revenue Agency disclosure, say: "The Muslim Association of Canada (MAC) provided $296,514 between 2001 and 2010" to IRFAN-Canada."

The Conservative government declared IRFAN-Canada a terrorist group on April 29, 2014 -- one day after the Mounties raided the charity.




THIS is the key piece of info in this piece of "journalism".

Donated 2001 to 2010. Organization declared illegal 4 years later. If they donate to a registered terrorist group, shut them down, arrest the leaders. Until then.....

[DBCouper]

I think we should support our allies who are constantly under attack.

I think we should be careful who we think our friends are.

[DBCouper]

THIS is the key piece of info in this piece of "journalism".

Donated 2001 to 2010. Organization declared illegal 4 years later. If they donate to a registered terrorist group, shut them down, arrest the leaders. Until then.....

Excellent reading comprehension Oko!

Nailed it!

[canadiantdi]

Excellent reading comprehension Oko!

Nailed it!

You're name is so familiar.. hmm..

[KGB]

Hamas and Israel = terrorists fighting terrorists. :snapoutofit:
I don't think one side is better than the other. Canadian money should not go to support either side until peace is reached, but that's not going to happen.
Just my 2c

The peace will be reached only when Hamas and Hizballah stop firing rockets at Israel and send their suicide bombers to blow up schools and buses. They spent all the money they get from "charities" to built the tunnels instead of building houses, schools and hospitals. Amount of building materials that were used on those tunnels could've been enough to build a city block of apartments, schools etc.

[DBCouper]

I thought it was a good one.

[DBCouper]

The peace will be reached only when Hamas and Hizballah stop firing rockets at Israel and send their suicide bombers to blow up schools and buses. They spent all the money they get from "charities" to built the tunnels instead of building houses, schools and hospitals. Amount of building materials that were used on those tunnels could've been enough to build a city block of apartments, schools etc.

Complete bull.

Stop the occupation.

Stop the settlements.

[KGB]

I think we should be careful who we think our friends are.

Yes I see, your friends are on the other end of the fence, right? The ones that scream Allahu Ahbar a pull the pin on a detonator. In a middle of a market.

[canadiantdi]

The peace will be reached only when Hamas and Hizballah stop firing rockets at Israel and send their suicide bombers to blow up schools and buses. They spent all the money they get from "charities" to built the tunnels instead of building houses, schools and hospitals. Amount of building materials that were used on those tunnels could've been enough to build a city block of apartments, schools etc.

It definitely shows their focus. They care about the demise of others over the health of their own. Pathetic really.

[DBCouper]

Yes I see, your friends are on the other end of the fence, right? The ones that scream Allahu Ahbar a pull the pin on a detonator. In a middle of a market.

not at all.

so, in your opinion everyone on the other side of the fence is a suicide bomber?

[canadiantdi]

Complete bull.

Stop the occupation.

Stop the settlements.

LOL, yes, and then be slaughtered, that would be the trifecta! You really believe that Israels enemies will stop attacking them?? Ever??

[KGB]

Complete bull.

Stop the occupation.

Stop the settlements.

Why don't we just drown all Jews in the sea? End of the problem. After all that's what your friends want anyway. Give them the land, and watch what will they do with it. Most likely same as with Lebanon in 1970.... Turn it from been the jewel of the middle east to the pile of rubbles.

[DBCouper]

It definitely shows their focus. They care about the demise of others over the health of their own. Pathetic really.

Every kind of good goes through those tunnels, including food, clothes and medicine.

This is what happens when access is controlled by someone else.


Terror tunnels sound scary though.

realistically they are survival tunnels and important to health.
understandable really.

I would do what it takes for my family to survive.

Wouldn't you?

[KGB]

not at all.

so, in your opinion everyone on the other side of the fence is a suicide bomber?
Not everyone, but a few. And i am not talking about the general population, I am talking about the terrorist From Hamas, Hezbollah etc. if YOU THINK that all people behind the fence belong to these groups, then I dont know what to say...

[canadiantdi]

Every kind of good goes through those tunnels, including food, clothes and medicine.

This is what happens when access is controlled by someone else.


Terror tunnels sound scary though.

realistically they are survival tunnels and important to health.
understandable really.

I would do what it takes for my family to survive.

Wouldn't you?

Well if they didn't bring in rockets through the tunnels to lob at children, I suspect they wouldn't be considered "terror tunnels" lol

see ya!

[KGB]

Lol!!!!!!

[Kanonfodder]

Guys an hour ago this guy was a different user claiming to be Muslim ...... Don't feed the trolls

[grouse_hunter]

THIS is the key piece of info in this piece of "journalism".

Donated 2001 to 2010. Organization declared illegal 4 years later. If they donate to a registered terrorist group, shut them down, arrest the leaders. Until then.....

The Germans "apologized" and paid reparations years after their shenanigans. The delay in the exposure of the action doesn't reduce its' significance.

[canadiantdi]

Guys an hour ago this guy was a different user claiming to be Muslim ...... Don't feed the trolls

umm, he's terrorizing the board.. you should probably call him a jihadist.

[Kanonfodder]

It's bellhelp day I think the dude has issues

[KGB]

Guys an hour ago this guy was a different user claiming to be Muslim ...... Don't feed the trolls

LOL!!! I kind of figure it out. He is probably one of those moderate Islamist.... Starting from terrorizing the board, then moving to something bigger. Why don't we just put him out of his misery now? Hehehe....

[243 wild cat]

Then we wonder why people get paranoid about Muslims in general. :confused:

Grizz

No **** you just can't trust the muslims way of thinking are the good or are they bad. Grizzly i am so sick of this muslim crap!!. :angry3:

[masalma]

Wow the level of hate in some people's hearts is unbelievable.

Pooling everyone under the same umbrella is wrong. Terrorism comes in all shapes, colors, nationalities. In all honesty I worry about Muslims in this country after reading the opinions of some of the people on here. This is not the Canada I love. We only pray that you are the minority, just like the extremist minority in Islam.

[Okotokian]

The Germans "apologized" and paid reparations years after their shenanigans. The delay in the exposure of the action doesn't reduce its' significance.

And it's not illegal to donate to an organization that's not illegal. Once the government designates an organizations as a terrorist group, then it is. Seems pretty simple to me. Your German example is irrelevant to the situation at hand.

[bobalong]

I believe I read a few days ago that Harper is about to implement an anti-terror bill that will make it a crime to promote terrorism, among other terrorist acts.

[rugatika]

Wow the level of hate in some people's hearts is unbelievable.

Pooling everyone under the same umbrella is wrong. Terrorism comes in all shapes, colors, nationalities. In all honesty I worry about Muslims in this country after reading the opinions of some of the people on here. This is not the Canada I love. We only pray that you are the minority, just like the extremist minority in Islam.

I agree with you Masalma. The level of hate in some people's hearts is unbelievable.

I have to ask, what is your fear for Muslims in this country though? I think they have all been very safe have they not? I can't recall any Muslims that have been killed by any Christians on Canadian soil. Perhaps I am wrong though.

I don't like to see anyone harmed for their religious belief's, as I'm sure you would agree with me, but I think that despite the odd bigoted remarks that are totally uncalled for, Muslims are probably safer in Canada than anywhere in the world.

I certainly welcome all people to Canada that want to come here and become Canadians and cause no harm to other Canadians.

[Crankbait]

The Germans "apologized" and paid reparations years after their shenanigans. The delay in the exposure of the action doesn't reduce its' significance.

I get where your going on this thought, but I do find it funny - haha - that you chose shenanigans instead of something like rampant, hyper-elevated, psychopathy stemming from paranoia.

[canadiantdi]

Wow the level of hate in some people's hearts is unbelievable.

Pooling everyone under the same umbrella is wrong. Terrorism comes in all shapes, colors, nationalities. In all honesty I worry about Muslims in this country after reading the opinions of some of the people on here. This is not the Canada I love. We only pray that you are the minority, just like the extremist minority in Islam.

There are differences between the minority in islam, and the "minority" in our country who are worried about islamic extremists... you say you worry about muslims in this country... why? How many have been killed due to people holding suspicious opinions?

I bet there have been more honour killings committed by muslims than retaliation killings committed by "haters".. if you want to worry, then worry that too many muslims are murdering their muslim children.. There's been around 13 cases of honour killings since 2002..

I agree that terrorism comes in all shapes, colours and nationalities.. but the majority seem to usually have something in common....... To ignore this FACT is STUPID.

[Okotokian]

I bet there have been more honour killings committed by muslims than retaliation killings committed by "haters".. if you want to worry, then worry that too many muslims are murdering their muslim children.. There's been around 13 cases of honour killings since 2002..
.

I think "honour killings" are more a facet of south Asian culture (Indian) than specifically Muslim. I suspect you might be mixed up on that one.

[canadiantdi]

I think "honour killings" are more a facet of south Asian culture (Indian) than specifically Muslim. I suspect you might be mixed up on that one.

I agree. I was lumping. But unfortunately, muslim honour killings in Canada have happened.. Shafia family murders and Abdul Malik Rustam... Those two instances have ended more lives than haters retaliating against muslims in Canada, as was my point of misplaced worry on masalmas part..

I appreciate the fact check though.

[KGB]

Unfortunately, some "traditions" have been shared by a few others....

[rugatika]

And it's not illegal to donate to an organization that's not illegal. Once the government designates an organizations as a terrorist group, then it is. Seems pretty simple to me. Your German example is irrelevant to the situation at hand.

When they became illegal in the eyes of the Canadian gov't is somewhat irrelevant. The question to be asked is who knew who was doing what with the money when it was "donated". Which is probably a question that will never be answered.

[canadiantdi]

When they became illegal in the eyes of the Canadian gov't is somewhat irrelevant. The question to be asked is who knew who was doing what with the money when it was "donated". Which is probably a question that will never be answered.

If the gov deems that an organization is illegal, I would think that they would have been doing the nasty for quite a while beforehand..

[Okotokian]

When they became illegal in the eyes of the Canadian gov't is somewhat irrelevant. The question to be asked is who knew who was doing what with the money when it was "donated". Which is probably a question that will never be answered.

I don't see how the law is irrelevant. The issue is regarding a "charity linked to Hamas". Some charities in the middle east actually do charitable work. And if the Canadian government deems them legal, what is the issue?

The IRA got a lot of money from North America from people who knew exactly what it was doing. Unless my government says it's illegal, it's my right to support and donate to them, or any other group I choose to. Maybe I want to donate to Ukrainians fighting Russians.

[2nd Best User Name]

I don't see how the law is irrelevant. The issue is regarding a "charity linked to Hamas". Some charities in the middle east actually do charitable work. And if the Canadian government deems them legal, what is the issue?

The IRA got a lot of money from North America from people who knew exactly what it was doing. Unless my government says it's illegal, it's my right to support and donate to them, or any other group I choose to. Maybe I want to donate to Ukrainians fighting Russians.

or kurds fighting against isis....

[GreenCanada]

It's funny and unfortunate that some folks take Sun News seriously. Not to mention the tv network... is it even on still?

Geez :snapoutofit:

[2nd Best User Name]

It's funny and unfortunate that some folks take Sun News seriously. Not to mention the tv network... is it even on still?

Geez :snapoutofit:

ive been banned for less.

though i described an appreciation of sunnews as evidence for a lack of blood flow to the brain

i would expect an infraction for your insolence to be forth coming.

[grouse_hunter]

And it's not illegal to donate to an organization that's not illegal. Once the government designates an organizations as a terrorist group, then it is. Seems pretty simple to me. Your German example is irrelevant to the situation at hand.

Actually, the German actions weren't illegal until the end of World War 2 and the Nuremberg trials. I think my analogy was more than appropriate.

[ganderblaster]

Actually, the German actions weren't illegal until the end of World War 2 and the Nuremberg trials. I think my analogy was more than appropriate.

I agree. If you free fall off a one hundred metre tall cliff there is no proof it will hurt you until you reach bottom. Some people obviously only believe something once a public sector confirms it.

[243 wild cat]

Wow the level of hate in some people's hearts is unbelievable.

Pooling everyone under the same umbrella is wrong. Terrorism comes in all shapes, colors, nationalities. In all honesty I worry about Muslims in this country after reading the opinions of some of the people on here. This is not the Canada I love. We only pray that you are the minority, just like the extremist minority in Islam.


I agree that terrorism comes in all shapes, colours and nationalities.. but the majority seem to usually have something in common....... and at this point it happens to be a Muslim minority with TERRORISM!. To ignore this FACT is STUPID. I have no hate i have Fear and with Fear comes opinions and I and most of the world are tired of TERRORISM! I'm very angry that my children and others have to fear what may come to this world or my Country that is UNBELIEVABLE !.
I do not and will not just worry about Muslims in this Country I worry about all people and all race in this Country. Muslim extremist that want to bring extinction to all mankind including there fellow muslims is very hard to comprehend the insanity of there BELIEFS. Its not a minority i like and if i have the sound of hatered in my heart so be it. Extremist have no heart and they spread hatred every day Sir.

[score]

Wow the level of hate in some people's hearts is unbelievable.

Pooling everyone under the same umbrella is wrong. Terrorism comes in all shapes, colors, nationalities. In all honesty I worry about Muslims in this country after reading the opinions of some of the people on here. This is not the Canada I love. We only pray that you are the minority, just like the extremist minority in Islam.

You expect somehow for people not to worry and express your own worry for Muslims? Really? You really don't understand how and why people are very concerned? What is it you expect?

People are very concerned and the concern is valid. Expressing that concern is OK and shouldn't be snubbed out.

I'd really like to see and hear ALL Muslims speak out. How about a huge march condemning radical Islam through the streets of our cities in Canada? That was mustered up condemning Israel, calling death to the Jews.....by "moderate" Muslims.

Anyway, when speaking an opinion becomes "offensive" we are already in big trouble! Acting on an opinion is but to my knowledge that hasn't happened to Muslims in Canada. Canadians have been slain in Canada.

Trust is earned at this point IMHO.

[masalma]

You expect somehow for people not to worry and express your own worry for Muslims? Really? You really don't understand how and why people are very concerned? What is it you expect?

People are very concerned and the concern is valid. Expressing that concern is OK and shouldn't be snubbed out.

I'd really like to see and hear ALL Muslims speak out. How about a huge march condemning radical Islam through the streets of our cities in Canada? That was mustered up condemning Israel, calling death to the Jews.....by "moderate" Muslims.

Anyway, when speaking an opinion becomes "offensive" we are already in big trouble! Acting on an opinion is but to my knowledge that hasn't happened to Muslims in Canada. Canadians have been slain in Canada.

Trust is earned at this point IMHO.

People should be concerned and worried, but not against every Muslim out there. It is like being scared of white people because a couple decided to shoot police officers (St Albert/NB). Minorities never represent the General population.

As for speaking out, when the Ottawa attack happened all the Muslims United and spoke out against it, even held a prayer/vigil, but that doesn't sell in the media, and only got a 30 second slot on the news.

Even when I speak with fellow Muslims we are in shock of what these extremist idiots are doing and their way of thinking.

To me calling these guys Muslim is like saying KKK are Christian.

We denounce them and when it comes time to fight I will be on the side against them.

[KGB]

I was just about to post my response to masalma but then I saw yours.... I will just leave it as is, very well said.

[score]

People should be concerned and worried, but not against every Muslim out there. It is like being scared of white people because a couple decided to shoot police officers (St Albert/NB). Minorities never represent the General population.

As for speaking out, when the Ottawa attack happened all the Muslims United and spoke out against it, even held a prayer/vigil, but that doesn't sell in the media, and only got a 30 second slot on the news.

Even when I speak with fellow Muslims we are in shock of what these extremist idiots are doing and their way of thinking.

To me calling these guys Muslim is like saying KKK are Christian.

We denounce them and when it comes time to fight I will be on the side against them.

1 - not the same at all.

2 - don't try to convince me that the media wouldn't LOVE to promote Muslim condemnation. BS......

3 - the time to fight has come and yeah I would expect that honest Muslims would be very ****ed off at these hyenas. But sorry, I haven't noticed that yet.

[masalma]

[/B]

1 - not the same at all.

2 - don't try to convince me that the media wouldn't LOVE to promote Muslim condemnation. BS......

3 - the time to fight has come and yeah I would expect that honest Muslims would be very ****ed off at these hyenas. But sorry, I haven't noticed that yet.


It appears your mind is already made up. But I am not here to defend a whole religion. Same way I don't expect all Christians to answer to crimes committed by KKK and the likes who claim to be Christians.

Nut jobs are just that.

[score]

It appears your mind is already made up. But I am not here to defend a whole religion. Same way I don't expect all Christians to answer to crimes committed by KKK and the likes who claim to be Christians.

Nut jobs are just that.

Your analogies are laughable....really, and no one has condemned the "Whole" religion.

In fact, our society and entire of the free world has bent over backwards to our own peril to SAY AND DEMONSTRATE THAT over and over.

And you are asking for yet more understanding. Come on. Seriously....

And you are correct. I made up my mind a long time ago.

[Okotokian]

Actually, the German actions weren't illegal until the end of World War 2 and the Nuremberg trials. I think my analogy was more than appropriate.

executing children not illegal? How so?

[grouse_hunter]

executing children not illegal? How so?

The crimes committed in Nazi Germany were authorized by the ruling regime, hence they were legal, at that time in Germany that is. After the Reich fell some of the responsible people were held accountable for their war crimes through trial.
What once was legal became illegal and the people engaged in a previously legal activity were punished for their actions. Seems straight-forward to me.

[Okotokian]

ive been banned for less.

.

AND he gets banned YET AGAIN!

Give up bud. Talking to other people or expressing ideas is just not your thing.

[Okotokian]

The crimes committed in Nazi Germany were authorized by the ruling regime, hence they were legal, at that time in Germany that is. After the Reich fell some of the responsible people were held accountable for their war crimes through trial.
What once was legal became illegal and the people engaged in a previously legal activity were punished for their actions. Seems straight-forward to me.

No. Just because a government does something doesn't make it legal. Our government does illegal things. Were laws against murder suspended in Germany? They just did what they wanted regardless of laws.

This German argument is such a red herring. Your example is one where the group doing the killing enforced or didn't enforce the laws. What we are discussing here is whether a Canadian group (who did not control Canada) followed the laws of Canada at the time. They did. There is no dispute about that.

[airbornedeerhunter]

The crimes committed in Nazi Germany were authorized by the ruling regime, hence they were legal, at that time in Germany that is. After the Reich fell some of the responsible people were held accountable for their war crimes through trial.
What once was legal became illegal and the people engaged in a previously legal activity were punished for their actions. Seems straight-forward to me.

That is the stupidest thing I have read in the 8 years I have been on this forum. I am not even going to waste my time trying to rebut what is quite possibly the most obtuse and uniformed post I've seen on here since the days of BeeGuy.

[Peter Abelard]

Donated 2001 to 2010. Organization declared illegal 4 years later. If they donate to a registered terrorist group, shut them down, arrest the leaders. Until then.....

Good catch. This is criminalization due to after-the-fact reclassification.

Similar to what happened with the Swiss Arms Rifles last year.

Some may read the article and see another example of Muslim wrongdoing - Which is what is intended.

Upon closer reading, it becomes clear that both the crime and the case are manufactured and fragile.

[score]

well whatever...I just hope someone is watching and they don't have their hands tied in doing what needs to be done.

[Peter Abelard]

No. Just because a government does something doesn't make it legal. Our government does illegal things. Were laws against murder suspended in Germany? They just did what they wanted regardless of laws.


A fascist government will meticulously remake the laws required to suit their intentions. It becomes all about legalism, and not about justice.

This creates a fig leaf of legitimacy so that they can just to justify their illegitimate actions.

The Canadian government government has just unilaterally involved the country in a war far away. Meanwhile, it's been uncovered that it's spying on it's citizens.

Dig deep enough, and legal justifications can be found for both abuses.

Don't make it right.

[gman1978]

That is the stupidest thing I have read in the 8 years I have been on this forum. I am not even going to waste my time trying to rebut what is quite possibly the most obtuse and uniformed post I've seen on here since the days of BeeGuy.

x10,000

[trooper]

well whatever...I just hope someone is watching and they don't have their hands tied in doing what needs to be done.

I've read through your koran and as far as needed to get a real drift of what your prophet mohammad said. There are more than enough statements in that book extolling the virtues of violence against infidels. You cant convince me otherwise because I have read your book. A general said, "in order to defeat your enemy know him". Well, thats exactly the advice I have taken....I am not racist, I have many friends with darker skin, Black, brown and red and yellow my foster children are metis and cree so dont try to pull the racist card on me... I am Islamophobic and have good reason to be. Now I'm waiting for the rest of our country to wake up before it's too late... France, England and the Netherlands are prime examples.

[HalfBreed]

I've read through your koran and as far as needed to get a real drift of what your prophet mohammad said. There are more than enough statements in that book extolling the virtues of violence against infidels. You cant convince me otherwise because I have read your book. A general said, "in order to defeat your enemy know him". Well, thats exactly the advice I have taken....I am not racist, I have many friends with darker skin, Black, brown and red and yellow my foster children are metis and cree so dont try to pull the racist card on me... I am Islamophobic and have good reason to be. Now I'm waiting for the rest of our country to wake up before it's too late... France, England and the Netherlands are prime examples.

^^Truer words^^

I'm not a phobe though.

[masalma]

I've read through your koran and as far as needed to get a real drift of what your prophet mohammad said. There are more than enough statements in that book extolling the virtues of violence against infidels. You cant convince me otherwise because I have read your book. A general said, "in order to defeat your enemy know him". Well, thats exactly the advice I have taken....I am not racist, I have many friends with darker skin, Black, brown and red and yellow my foster children are metis and cree so dont try to pull the racist card on me... I am Islamophobic and have good reason to be. Now I'm waiting for the rest of our country to wake up before it's too late... France, England and the Netherlands are prime examples.


What do you suggest should be done with those mooslims?

[recce43]

Its hard to trust a group of people when their peers are out killing and call for a group of people to attack within . i don't see thousands of this group out protesting said terrorist. so please tell me a veteran why i should trust this group of people after they have killed my brothers in arms for allah

[trooper]

What do you suggest should be done with those mooslims?

I'm not prepared at this time to even entertain suggestions on a public forum... My suggestions are for private knowledge only...we just need to do something that will protect our way of life, or we will loose it. Make your own assumptions from that statement.

[trooper]

Its hard to trust a group of people when their peers are out killing and call for a group of people to attack within . i don't see thousands of this group out protesting said terrorist. so please tell me a veteran why i should trust this group of people after they have killed my brothers in arms for allah

X1000 right on Recce43!

[masalma]

Its hard to trust a group of people when their peers are out killing and call for a group of people to attack within . i don't see thousands of this group out protesting said terrorist. so please tell me a veteran why i should trust this group of people after they have killed my brothers in arms for allah

For the same reason you don't see thousands of Christians protesting the acts of KKK and their likes who have committed terrorist acts.

Quick Google showed this link

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/americas-10-worst-terror-attacks-by-christian-fundamentalist-and-far-right-extremists/

Muslims didn't kill your brothers in arms, nut jobs did. To blame over a billion people for the acts of a few is narrow minded. Spend some time with real Muslims and I guarantee you will change your mind.

They are no different than anyone else, working, paying taxes, providing for their families. The only difference is now they are the flavor of the weeks in terms of media.

One thing I learned in life is to keep an open mind and judge people based on individual actions, and it is working for me.

[masalma]

I'm not prepared at this time to even entertain suggestions on a public forum... My suggestions are for private knowledge only...we just need to do something that will protect our way of life, or we will loose it. Make your own assumptions from that statement.

Like what we did to the Japanese in 1942? Start making signs that says "Muslims KEEP OUT"?

[score]

I've read through your koran and as far as needed to get a real drift of what your prophet mohammad said. There are more than enough statements in that book extolling the virtues of violence against infidels. You cant convince me otherwise because I have read your book. A general said, "in order to defeat your enemy know him". Well, thats exactly the advice I have taken....I am not racist, I have many friends with darker skin, Black, brown and red and yellow my foster children are metis and cree so dont try to pull the racist card on me... I am Islamophobic and have good reason to be. Now I'm waiting for the rest of our country to wake up before it's too late... France, England and the Netherlands are prime examples.

I think you may be quoting my post in error there trooper....:).

Anyway yeah, to not take this threat seriously is irresponsible and suicidal. To me it's frankly amazing that Muslims don't seem to be able to demonstrate the capacity to begin to understand the concerns we have.

They are so busy saying "it's not me", to which we have bent over backwards to acknowledge. I really don't know what they expect from us or what more they expect from us. I'll tell you this though. I'm sick and tired of people trying to tell me that I should be stroking and patting the backs of the Muslims that don't want to kill me. That should be a given, no...

[grouse_hunter]

No. Just because a government does something doesn't make it legal. Our government does illegal things. Were laws against murder suspended in Germany? They just did what they wanted regardless of laws.

This German argument is such a red herring. Your example is one where the group doing the killing enforced or didn't enforce the laws. What we are discussing here is whether a Canadian group (who did not control Canada) followed the laws of Canada at the time. They did. There is no dispute about that.

Perhaps my Nazi comparison was slightly inapt. Thank you for the personal insults though!

Now back on track...

The government declared IRFAN-Canada a terrorist group on April 29, 2014; one day after the RCMP raided the charity. They raided IRFAN at the end of a lengthy investigation; this means that they were being looked into for a lengthy period of time preceding the raid. IRFAN was a suspected terrorist sponsoring organization dating back to the begging of the investigation, the date of which is unfortunately not mentioned. However, their activities were ongoing and known by police.
Financially supporting terrorism is a crime which does not change it's illegal status regardless of the fact that IRFAN was a "legal charity" at the time. Donating to Hamas is a crime which got the RCMP interested in the first place. All that happened on April 29,2014 is that IRFAN became a "terrorist sponsor" instead of a "charity" no laws were changed.
This technical change in IRFANs' legal status has absolutely nothing to do with the funds transferred to terrorist groups. MACs financial support of IRFAN should therefore be interpreted as supporting terrorism.

In any case, the article comes from a questionable source and obviously is yet another attempt to create the dislike of Muslims in the West. Meh, works for me!

[recce43]

Well i do not trust islam right now . And now they have to earn my trust and prove to me they deserve it. And you cacannot say itd only a few bad apples . They eant to destroy a nation israel and its people they threaten canada they attack canadian troops overseas . They treat women like we are back in the midevil times. What about equal rights for women . In muslim countries. Handing out harsh punishments like lashing . Beheading . islam is cruel so tell me hoe should i trust it?

[trooper]

Perhaps my Nazi comparison was slightly inapt. Thank you for the personal insults though!

Now back on track...

The government declared IRFAN-Canada a terrorist group on April 29, 2014; one day after the RCMP raided the charity. They raided IRFAN at the end of a lengthy investigation; this means that they were being looked into for a lengthy period of time preceding the raid. IRFAN was a suspected terrorist sponsoring organization dating back to the begging of the investigation, the date of which is unfortunately not mentioned. However, their activities were ongoing and known by police.
Financially supporting terrorism is a crime which does not change it's illegal status regardless of the fact that IRFAN was a "legal charity" at the time. Donating to Hamas is a crime which got the RCMP interested in the first place. All that happened on April 29,2014 is that IRFAN became a "terrorist sponsor" instead of a "charity" no laws were changed.
This technical change in IRFANs' legal status has absolutely nothing to do with the funds transferred to terrorist groups. MACs financial support of IRFAN should therefore be interpreted as supporting terrorism.

In any case, the article comes from a questionable source and obviously is yet another attempt to create the dislike of Muslims in the West. Meh, works for me!

Even if the article comes from a questionable source it cant be discounted as false given all the prevailing evidence from europe and the middle east. I for one will believe overwhelming evidence, not what some liberal spouts..

[masalma]

I think you may be quoting my post in error there trooper....:).

Anyway yeah, to not take this threat seriously is irresponsible and suicidal. To me it's frankly amazing that Muslims don't seem to be able to demonstrate the capacity to begin to understand the concerns we have.

They are so busy saying "it's not me", to which we have bent over backwards to acknowledge. I really don't know what they expect from us or what more they expect from us. I'll tell you this though. I'm sick and tired of people trying to tell me that I should be stroking and patting the backs of the Muslims that don't want to kill me. That should be a given, no...

All I am trying to so is create a world that my children are not hated because of their religion.

Extremists need to be taken out of this country. There is so many flaws within our system that has caused our current situation.

If you are unable to respect the laws of the land, then you don't belong here. Simple as that.

Also all these terrorist attacks that happened on our soil were done by people who had raised red flags with intelligence agencies. And some even had their passports taken, I see it as a failure on our part that people like this are not taken out of the mix.

With all the tools and technology available these days I am sure they are able to pinpoint anyone that intends or has potential to do harm on our soil, why not target these **** heads instead of spending billions and putting our troops in harms way.

This whole situation gets to me because in all honesty I see it as a tool to control people, once you have people scared and in fear you have total control over them.

Anyways each one is entitled to their own opinion. More hate in this world is definitely not the solution. And no one expects anyone to bend over for anyone, just mutual respect.

[masalma]

Well i do not trust islam right now . And now they have to earn my trust and prove to me they deserve it. And you cacannot say itd only a few bad apples . They eant to destroy a nation israel and its people they threaten canada they attack canadian troops overseas . They treat women like we are back in the midevil times. What about equal rights for women . In muslim countries. Handing out harsh punishments like lashing . Beheading . islam is cruel so tell me hoe should i trust it?

I think you have culture and religion mixed. Most practices you speak of are driven by culture and are against religion. As for harsher punishment, I am all for that especially when it comes to murders and child abusers.

If you are capable of murder then you forfit your right to live. Simple concept.

As for Israel I won't even touch that issue lol. It can't be covered in a thousand pages let alone a single post.

[trooper]

Well i do not trust islam right now . And now they have to earn my trust and prove to me they deserve it. And you cacannot say itd only a few bad apples . They eant to destroy a nation israel and its people they threaten canada they attack canadian troops overseas . They treat women like we are back in the midevil times. What about equal rights for women . In muslim countries. Handing out harsh punishments like lashing . Beheading . islam is cruel so tell me hoe should i trust it?

Exactly.. If you question the validity of the idea of Islam being a progressive religion of peace, read up on practices like female circumcision and what that entails, Most are done without anesthesia in the back villages from what I have gleaned from medical sources. Backward and vile practices, customs and laws.
Not meant for North American culture. I watched a muslim woman get beheaded because someone claimed that she beat her grand daughter with a broom handle then raped her with it. No trial, just a beheading... Human rights?? non existent...

[recce43]

See the difference im not afraid.. i want revenge for all my friends killed . I want these people stamped out.
I do not blame all muslims but i don't see them rising up agsinst this

[recce43]

you don't understand iam angry to see friends that have been maimed by ieds and friends killed all because of a religion. I will never live in fear. but i will be vigilant.

[trooper]

I think you have culture and religion mixed. Most practices you speak of are driven by culture and are against religion. As for harsher punishment, I am all for that especially when it comes to murders and child abusers.

If you are capable of murder then you forfit your right to live. Simple concept.

As for Israel I won't even touch that issue lol. It can't be covered in a thousand pages let alone a single post.

Islam is the religion, Muslim is the culture. You will not find one without the other.. there is no separating it. They are both intertwined. I have a book at home that explains this fact. I believe it's called " the idiots guide to islam" I also have two korans, One was given to me by a muslim convert, a fellow who converted to islam because his wife is a muslim.
The other I picked up at Coles in the religion section, also where I picked up the idiots guide to islam.

[recce43]

The to worst topics to talk about is religion and politics.

[masalma]

See the difference im not afraid.. i want revenge for all my friends killed . I want these people stamped out.
I do not blame all muslims but i don't see them rising up agsinst this

You see if Christians speak out against extremists that claim to be Christian it would be validating their claim to belong to that religion.

If Muslims do the same it will validate that groups like isis are actually Muslim when in fact they are not.

I always believed that religion is the most powerful weapon on earth, if misused it can control the minds of the weak and manipulate them to do whatever you wish.

And if you are seeking revenge, no one is stopping you from heading over there, but know who you are shooting at, to take an innocent life is something that can never be forgiven. And do it for the right reasons, revenge can be destructive to you.

[masalma]

Islam is the religion, Muslim is the culture. You will not find one without the other.. there is no separating it. They are both intertwined. I have a book at home that explains this fact. I believe it's called " the idiots guide to islam" I also have two korans, One was given to me by a muslim convert, a fellow who converted to islam because his wife is a muslim.
The other I picked up at Coles in the religion section, also where I picked up the idiots guide to islam.


So that is where you are getting all your information from?

Islam is the religion.
Muslim is a person who believes in Islam.

And Allah is the Arabic word for God.

[twofifty]

masalma, would you care to comment on what Harper had to say today when introducing a Bill to increase government surveillance in Canada.
Did Harper realistically present the situation as you see it, and was his use of language (Jihadist instead of Muslim) useful to achieving his aims?

Quoting PM Harper:

"Violent jihadism is not just a danger somewhere else, it seeks to harm us here in Canada — in our cities and in our neighbourhoods, through horrific acts, like deliberately driving a car at a defenceless man or shooting a soldier in the back as he stands on guard at a War Memorial.

Canadians are targeted by these terrorists for no other reason than that we are Canadians. They want to harm us because they hate our society and the values it represents.

Violent jihadism is not a human right, it is an act of war, and our government's new legislation fully understands that difference."

[recce43]

iam done with this thread nothing good has ever come out talking about religion or politics.

[masalma]

masalma, would you care to comment on what Harper had to say today when introducing a Bill to increase government surveillance in Canada.
Did Harper realistically present the situation as you see it, and was his use of language (Jihadist instead of Muslim) useful to achieving his aims?

Quoting PM Harper:

"Violent jihadism is not just a danger somewhere else, it seeks to harm us here in Canada — in our cities and in our neighbourhoods, through horrific acts, like deliberately driving a car at a defenceless man or shooting a soldier in the back as he stands on guard at a War Memorial.

Canadians are targeted by these terrorists for no other reason than that we are Canadians. They want to harm us because they hate our society and the values it represents.

Violent jihadism is not a human right, it is an act of war, and our government's new legislation fully understands that difference."

In all honesty I am not a big fan of Harper. See when I wrote about controlling people by using fear. That is exactly what he has accomplished, and is working towards.


He can use whatever terms he wishes, he has used "Islamicism" whatever that means - as the biggest threat to Canada.

If the true motive behind the bill is to protect Canadian safety then it is fair game. But how much rights and privacy are we willing to give up in exchange for the feeling of safety.

Personally I think it is useless. The people that committed terrorist acts were already on a watch list and nothing was done about it. All he is doing now is just making the list bigger. No faith in politicians.

[trooper]

So that is where you are getting all your information from?

Islam is the religion.
Muslim is a person who believes in Islam.

And Allah is the Arabic word for God.

Those are just a few of my sources.. I tend to read much and look into claims of others for facts.. the "Idiots guide to Islam" is written by a muslim professor there is also a muslim journalist, Tarek Fatah, who echos my beliefs. maybe you should pick up one of his journals and read it yourself..There are numerous reports given by women from the muslim culture who have escaped the horrors of that life and have blown the whistle on this horris and vile religion... please try to refute all that evidence, you can not.

[Kanonfodder]

Yup it's just rehashing the same views

Closed