Frontline: Gunned down, the power of the NRA

[canadiantdi]

Has anyone seen this documentary yet?

Just looking for thoughts. I haven't seen it yet, plan to watch it on Thursday..

You can watch it here;
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gunned-down/

[expmler]

I watched it the other night. It is an interesting look at the way they influence gov't. I was expecting a hatchet job by the anti gun media, but it was fairly objective and pretty much stuck to how the NRA works and how gov't officials are only interested in getting elected.

[rugatika]

Sounds interesting. The NRA is one of few examples of millions of regular folks coming together to successfully lobby government to protect their interests outlined in the constitution.

[slickwilly]

Sounds interesting. The NRA is one of few examples of millions of regular folks coming together to successfully lobby government to protect their interests outlined in the constitution.

Originally, maybe. Now, just a lobby making sure that gun companies can keep raking in those dollars.

[nelsonob1]

Originally, maybe. Now, just a lobby making sure that gun companies can keep raking in those dollars.

You are ill informed. Lots of interests are served by the NRA. They are an umbrella for a diverse group with one common thread - the right to bare arms. I agree that money making, politics, fringe interests, etc, all plays a part, but there is certainly a unifying purpose that weaves those threads into a strong group.

[NewGuard84]

I watched it the other night. It is an interesting look at the way they influence gov't. I was expecting a hatchet job by the anti gun media, but it was fairly objective and pretty much stuck to how the NRA works and how gov't officials are only interested in getting elected.

Watched it as well and had this same impression. Kind of a surface level analysis but was interesting and worth a watch.

[slickwilly]

You are ill informed. Lots of interests are served by the NRA. They are an umbrella for a diverse group with one common thread - the right to bare arms. I agree that money making, politics, fringe interests, etc, all plays a part, but there is certainly a unifying purpose that weaves those threads into a strong group.

Everything that I have been able to find estimates that about half of the money the NRA raises comes from corporate donations. If somebody was handing me money in the millions, you better believe I would make sure I listened to what they had to say.

[fatrack]

No no no no... its not about gun companies making millions, its about FREEDOM.

Its the freedom to make choices without the government making them for you. Canada is a great place but you will never appreciate these rights when they have always been absent. Every time I return to the USA I am reminded of the freedoms I give up to live in Canada. If you want change you must support those working for it.

[score]

You are ill informed. Lots of interests are served by the NRA. They are an umbrella for a diverse group with one common thread - the right to bare arms. I agree that money making, politics, fringe interests, etc, all plays a part, but there is certainly a unifying purpose that weaves those threads into a strong group.

Pretty much how I see it too. I don't give a rat's arse about the inner workings, they stand for the things and values I believe in and I'll support that. They are a voice we desperately need.

[TomCanuck]

Originally, maybe. Now, just a lobby making sure that gun companies can keep raking in those dollars.

So is your problem with guns, capitalism or both?

[Stonegoat]

In Canada, every hunter and recreational shooter and gun owner should join the NFA (National Firearms Association). As gun owners, we need a strong, united voice to preserve our shooting heritage. There is little the Liberals and NDP would like more, than to disarm the Canadian populace.

[edmhunter]

In Canada, every hunter and recreational shooter and gun owner should join the NFA (National Firearms Association). As gun owners, we need a strong, united voice to preserve our shooting heritage. There is little the Liberals and NDP would like more, than to disarm the Canadian populace.

100% in agreement there! Watched the program weeks ago, we as hunters and outdoorsmen and women should join the NFA. I am going to research the NFA and if I believe that they can effect changes and protect our rights as effectively as the NRA does in the USA, I will become a member.

The NRA selected Charton Heston as one of their public figure heads. If the NFA plan on getting Jim Carrey involved, count me out! lol :)

[HalfBreed]

100% in agreement there! Watched the program weeks ago, we as hunters and outdoorsmen and women should join the NFA. I am going to research the NFA and if I believe that they can effect changes and protect our rights as effectively as the NRA does in the USA, I will become a member.

The NRA selected Charton Heston as one of their public figure heads. If the NFA plan on getting Jim Carrey involved, count me out! lol :)

The highlighted is one of my thoughts reading this thread, where are our Charlton Hestons and Ted Nugents?

[Stinky Buffalo]

The highlighted is one of my thoughts reading this thread, where are our Charlton Hestons and Ted Nugents?


That would have been David A. Tomlinson. R. I. P.

[slickwilly]

No no no no... its not about gun companies making millions, its about FREEDOM.

Its the freedom to make choices without the government making them for you. Canada is a great place but you will never appreciate these rights when they have always been absent. Every time I return to the USA I am reminded of the freedoms I give up to live in Canada. If you want change you must support those working for it.

I just have a bone to pick with corporations spending tonnes of money on lobbyists and unduly influencing public policy. Freedom? Great. But I think multinational corporations have enough of an advantage they don't need me going to bat for them.

[slickwilly]

So is your problem with guns, capitalism or both?

A little column A, a little column B. It is actually funny you would ask that, because I think both can be very dangerous if totally unrestricted. I think Canada has done (overall) a pretty good job of finding the middle ground on both, and we have largely reaped the benefits.

[aulrich]

Gun laws and gun crime do not correlate, never have, never will, we benefit from having very small slums, not our gun laws.

Look at Mexico very restrictive gun laws that are doing sweet **** all to curb gun crime.

[ACM]

I expected a real hatchet job by left wing anti gun folks but the piece is quite fair and well done Interesting group as it has so many different types involved

[score]

Gun laws and gun crime do not correlate, never have, never will, we benefit from having very small slums, not our gun laws.

Look at Mexico very restrictive gun laws that are doing sweet **** all to curb gun crime.

Yeah there's nothing "good" regarding anything Canada has done in terms of "gun control".

[midgetwaiter]

Everything that I have been able to find estimates that about half of the money the NRA raises comes from corporate donations. If somebody was handing me money in the millions, you better believe I would make sure I listened to what they had to say.

This is why I would never support the NRA.

The biggest problem facing American gun owners is the culture of fear that has become one of the primary motivators for firearm sales. Not just the "fear" that the gun grabbers are coming for our stuff but the FEAR that drives people to believe they can't go to Walmart without a pistol. The tragedies resulting from this insanity are becoming more frequent. Woman shot by her toddler in Walmart, ex cop kills someone over texting in a theatre, young woman shot through a closed door when seeking assistance after an accident, etc. All of those took place in just the last year.

The NRA actively foments this fear because it drives membership and increases their influence. Don't answer the door at night without a gun in your hand! Hey wait, somebody is trying to make it harder for you to answer the door with a 30rd magazine, SEND US MONEY!

Maybe there is an active push by NRA member companies to do this or maybe not, I doubt they are upset about it though. Either way it's not something I would ever support. If our NFA goes this route I would discontinue my membership immediately.

[Chuck_Wagon]

The NRA actively foments this fear because it drives membership and increases their influence. Don't answer the door at night without a gun in your hand! Hey wait, somebody is trying to make it harder for you to answer the door with a 30rd magazine, SEND US MONEY!

What a crock of BS!!
They do nothing of the sort, they fight the political fight where it counts.
I’ll leave the fear mongering and misinformation to the lefty-media and posts like this.

[edmhunter]

What a crock of BS!!
They do nothing of the sort, they fight the political fight where it counts.
I’ll leave the fear mongering and misinformation to the lefty-media and posts like this.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^right on!

[avb3]

What a crock of BS!!
They do nothing of the sort, they fight the political fight where it counts.
I’ll leave the fear mongering and misinformation to the lefty-media and posts like this.
Actually, they have no issue in promoting the self defense gambit. I spend half my time in Florida, and go to the local range here. The fear factor that is shouted is crazy. I was at that shopping center were that ex cop killed the movie goer, I saw the police vehicles and ambulances that pulled up, and it gave me the cold hard shivers to find out what happened.

So many yell self defense, yet if your not in a gang, your prospects of being confronted by a gun is not much worse than in Edmonton... In fact, the stats are similar.

The NRA is a strong lobby, but have gone way over the top in their no compromise stance. Why would you NOT want to endorse a background check at a gun show? That is not infringing on anything, but may keep the bad guy from buying a gun.

[Redfrog]

So slick willy and the midget waiter won't support the NRA, but are upset because some corp does. :thinking-006:

Who do you think pays for all the challenges to gun rights in the U.S???? The Antis?????? Who do you think supports the antis?????

Do you think whining on AO makes any kind of concrete difference to our gun rights.??

No wonder we struggle!!:angry3:

[midgetwaiter]

What a crock of BS!!
They do nothing of the sort, they fight the political fight where it counts.
I’ll leave the fear mongering and misinformation to the lefty-media and posts like this.

Maybe you can explain to me how a "Grassroots" organization can actively oppose legislation supported by over 70% of their membership? Here's an example of a prominent member that resigned in 2013, good luck painting him as a "leftist".

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/376098/3/KSDK-Exclusive-Adolphus-Busch-IV-resigns-NRA-membership-

[Redfrog]

"The NRA is a strong lobby, but have gone way over the top in their no compromise stance. Why would you NOT want to endorse a background check at a gun show? That is not infringing on anything, but may keep the bad guy from buying a gun."

Why not endorse the cops search and seizure in your home with just a door knock. If you have nothing to hide, it could save the life of one child.:thinking-006: It's not infringing on anything unless you are a gang member or a drug dealer or......

[expmler]

Maybe you can explain to me how a "Grassroots" organization can actively oppose legislation supported by over 70% of their membership? Here's an example of a prominent member that resigned in 2013, good luck painting him as a "leftist".

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/376098/3/KSDK-Exclusive-Adolphus-Busch-IV-resigns-NRA-membership-

Just like being a conservative in a union.

[midgetwaiter]

Why not endorse the cops search and seizure in your home with just a door knock. If you have nothing to hide, it could save the life of one child.:thinking-006: It's not infringing on anything unless you are a gang member or a drug dealer or......

http://westchestertownhall.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Straw-Man_500.gif

[edmhunter]

I wish we had the NRA in Canada, that would be grand! I also wish CH was still making movies, neither will happen.

[fatrack]

Its hard for me to believe some the responses here, I might as well turn in my guns.

[expmler]

Maybe you can explain to me how a "Grassroots" organization can actively oppose legislation supported by over 70% of their membership? Here's an example of a prominent member that resigned in 2013, good luck painting him as a "leftist".

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/376098/3/KSDK-Exclusive-Adolphus-Busch-IV-resigns-NRA-membership-

A little info on Adolphus, looks pretty leftist to me.

http://www.businessinsider.com/2008/7/anheuser-busch-bud-family-feud-ceo-s-uncle-adolphus-busch-joins-inbev-team

[slickwilly]

So slick willy and the midget waiter won't support the NRA, but are upset because some corp does. :thinking-006:

Who do you think pays for all the challenges to gun rights in the U.S???? The Antis?????? Who do you think supports the antis?????

Do you think whining on AO makes any kind of concrete difference to our gun rights.??

No wonder we struggle!!:angry3:
I'm not sure I understand your question. I just don't really like the fact that, the NRA doesn't really support my views, but since they have made the issue so intertwined with hunting, I am in the minority.
As for who pays for gun control? I assume other moderates/lefties, but I don't equate having an opinion on guns designed to kill people with guns to kill animals.

[expmler]

I'm not sure I understand your question. I just don't really like the fact that, the NRA doesn't really support my views, but since they have made the issue so intertwined with hunting, I am in the minority.
As for who pays for gun control? I assume other moderates/lefties, but I don't equate having an opinion on guns designed to kill people with guns to kill animals.

The NRA supports gun ownership, they make no distinction on use.

It is the anti's that put labels on guns.

[slickwilly]

Gun laws and gun crime do not correlate, never have, never will, we benefit from having very small slums, not our gun laws.

Look at Mexico very restrictive gun laws that are doing sweet **** all to curb gun crime.
I don't know about that statistic. Just a quick Wikipedia seems to show a big difference between Canada and the US.
Obviously, crime is influenced by a lot of factors (mostly economic), but I believe that gun deaths (especially suicides) can be reduced vastly by eliminating easy access to a gun.

[avb3]

"The NRA is a strong lobby, but have gone way over the top in their no compromise stance. Why would you NOT want to endorse a background check at a gun show? That is not infringing on anything, but may keep the bad guy from buying a gun."

Why not endorse the cops search and seizure in your home with just a door knock. If you have nothing to hide, it could save the life of one child.:thinking-006: It's not infringing on anything unless you are a gang member or a drug dealer or......
I'm sorry that you can't see the difference between background checks, and unwarranted search seizure.

[James Henry]

I don't know about that statistic. Just a quick Wikipedia seems to show a big difference between Canada and the US.
Obviously, crime is influenced by a lot of factors (mostly economic), but I believe that gun deaths (especially suicides) can be reduced vastly by eliminating easy access to a gun.

Well then we should take away pills, rope, car exhausts, etc. they are even easier to access:scared:.

I wish we had the NRA here, the Americans are patriotic and stand up for their second amendment rights.

An armed society is a polite society

[avb3]

Well then we should take away pills, rope, car exhausts, etc. they are even easier to access:scared:.

I wish we had the NRA here, the Americans are patriotic and stand up for their second amendment rights.

An armed society is a polite society
And armed society is a polite society? If that is the case the United States should be the most polite society on earth. We know that's not the case don't we?

I do agree with you however that it's not the tool that causes suicides but a whole plethora of other factors

[edmhunter]

well then we should take away pills, rope, car exhausts, etc. They are even easier to access:scared:.

I wish we had the nra here, the americans are patriotic and stand up for their second amendment rights.

An armed society is a polite society

Amen! :)

[edmhunter]

And armed society is a polite society? If that is the case the United States should be the most polite society on earth. We know that's not the case don't we?

I do agree with you however that it's not the tool that causes suicides but a whole plethora of other factors

Starting with being over taxed and over regulated! :)

[Redfrog]

I'm sorry that you can't see the difference between background checks, and unwarranted search seizure.

Apology accepted. Didn't mean to confuse you.:thinking-006:

[Redfrog]

"We know that's not the case don't we?"

Certainly not the case with people I've met in the U.S. Maybe it's you. Just sayin'

[fatrack]

I guess some have bought into the liberal media opinion that the USA is the violence capital of the world with our liberal gun laws. Heres a different opinion-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

[midgetwaiter]

I guess some have bought into the liberal media opinion that the USA is the violence capital of the world with our liberal gun laws. Heres a different opinion-


Not at all, very much the opposite in fact. I can't understand why when the rate of violent crime is lower that it has been in 40 years so many find the idea of going to the grocery store so frightening that they must do so armed.

And no before you even say it there is no evidence to support a causal relationship with concealed carry laws, crime rates have been falling before and after they came into effect.

It makes the consequences of these recent accidents and other incidents so much more tragic.

[slickwilly]

I do agree with you however that it's not the tool that causes suicides but a whole plethora of other factors

I definitely don't think that suicide (or for that matter, "crimes of passion" like a spouse or gf, or a road-rage type incident) are caused by guns. However, in some cases, it is only a few minute window when somebody is willing to make a big mistake, and having a gun on your hip or in the glovebox can give you instant access to a device that was designed to cause a lot of harm.
I guarantee more people are injured by these snap decisions then protect themselves in a "personal defense" situation.

[fatrack]

Slickwilly,

I guess you don't have to worry about making a "personel defense" mistake since the government has made that decision for you. Best to hide in closet and dial 911.

Midgetwaiter, heres one for you regarding using a firearm to defend yourself (from an anti-gun guy to boot)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptCtNW5yI7c

and an even better one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_kD6Gz7WZw

[HalfBreed]

PBS is the only reason I don't cut the cable, though many of the docs are on netflix. Speaking of PBS, some great Shakespeare on tonight. He was no warrior poet but I do enjoy his work, enjoy the evening folks!

Dry powder and circles in the sand or something something....

[TomCanuck]

A little column A, a little column B. It is actually funny you would ask that, because I think both can be very dangerous if totally unrestricted. I think Canada has done (overall) a pretty good job of finding the middle ground on both, and we have largely reaped the benefits.

The link between gun control and public safety is a very weak one. Some would argue it's non-existent.

[avb3]

"We know that's not the case don't we?"

Certainly not the case with people I've met in the U.S. Maybe it's you. Just sayin'
I live in the USA six months of the year. The polite people I meet are polite not because of firearms.

Most of the people I meet at the pistol range are polite... Some are Azzz types.

[qwert]

The link between gun control and public safety is a very weak one. Some would argue it's non-existent,

or even counter-productive.

[qwert]

The NRA supports gun ownership, they make no distinction on use.

It is the anti's that put labels on guns.

and the Fudds let them. They think that the antis will be happy with just banning 'scary' guns, and that after they succeed in banning 'scary' guns they will let the Fudds keep their deer and trap guns.


"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

"We are all in this together." Red Green
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Red_Green_Show

[Redfrog]

"Most of the people I meet at the pistol range are polite."

These are the ones with guns, correct?:thinking-006: