Oh Canada!! Eh!

[Twisted Canuck]

As a Twisted Canuck, I was more than a little surprised and impressed to see what the boys in the back room have been playing around with and developing. Too bad that the likelihood of a civilian getting one of these is right up there with me sourcing an AA-12 (which I totally covet!!)....pretty cool shooting irons for the boys in green though. :)

Oh, I guess I should mention that Colt was involved too....:D

Defence Research and Development Canada | News | The evolution of the smart gun (http://www.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/en/dynamic-article.page?doc=the-evolution-of-the-smart-gun/i5xyz550)

Canada's smart gun: Department of National Defence wows the world with new high-tech assault rifle - Your Community (http://www.cbc.ca/newsblogs/yourcommunity/2015/02/canadas-smart-gun-department-of-national-defence-wows-the-world-with-new-high-tech-assault-rifle.html)

[jpohlic]

Interesting. Hope it's not the next Avro Arrow.

[airbornedeerhunter]

The chances of that replacing the C7/C8 family are slim to none. What a train wreck. Let me fill you in on something about DLR- 3/4 of what they design and trial never get implemented into service. It's pretty hard to improve upon the service rifle platform we currently have and just one look at this thing sets off the alarm bells. Further regarding DLR, most of the time their trial primary training audience are made up of people that would not generally be using the equipment on a regular and daily basis. I can guarantee you that Infantry soldiers in Edmonton and Pet did not participate in these trials because DLR knew full well that the grunts would have thrown this monstrosity under the bus.

No different than a project they were working on a couple of years ago, essentially a battery powered exoskeleton that would allow soldiers to march faster, further and carry far more weight than just the average grunt under a rucksack. Problem is it weighed over 40 pounds, the batteries were the size of bricks, the exoskeleton was uncomfortable to wear, it took about 10-15 minutes to don and doff and the wearer could not be rendered emergency combat casualty care such as the application of a tourniquet to a traumatic amputation due to the framing being in the way. Not to mention that such a product would entirely devalue and degrade a key tenet of soldiering- physical fitness! The egghead scientists and their government grants failed to look at the practicality of it and it is no different here with this space gun!

[58thecat]

The chances of that replacing the C7/C8 family are slim to none. What a train wreck. Let me fill you in on something about DLR- 3/4 of what they design and trial never get implemented into service. It's pretty hard to improve upon the service rifle platform we currently have and just one look at this thing sets off the alarm bells. Further regarding DLR, most of the time their trial primary training audience are made up of people that would not generally be using the equipment on a regular and daily basis. I can guarantee you that Infantry soldiers in Edmonton and Pet did not participate in these trials because DLR knew full well that the grunts would have thrown this monstrosity under the bus.

No different than a project they were working on a couple of years ago, essentially a battery powered exoskeleton that would allow soldiers to march faster, further and carry far more weight than just the average grunt under a rucksack. Problem is it weighed over 40 pounds, the batteries were the size of bricks, the exoskeleton was uncomfortable to wear, it took about 10-15 minutes to don and doff and the wearer could not be rendered emergency combat casualty care such as the application of a tourniquet to a traumatic amputation due to the framing being in the way. Not to mention that such a product would entirely devalue and degrade a key tenet of soldiering- physical fitness! The egghead scientists and their government grants failed to look at the practicality of it and it is no different here with this space gun!

Maybe this is the beginning of a change to a new service weapon, I tell ya when we opened the container and starred down at the C7/8 we laughed. When we stripped,cleaned assembled and put them to simple range use their was fore stocks falling off, mag falling out or not feeding proper etc, total frustration with the new weapon. The FN was heavier, hit harder, more reliable, we were so use to it, all cuddled up to her rolled up in my hooch...then came the little plastic toy which won the hearts of the new breed of soldier. It might happen again and the cycle starts over.
Nothing like doing days, weeks of drill parade, get it all down for the day, on the first present arms the little black gun falls apart and hits the cement....another month taken away due to extra duties:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Twisted Canuck]

I gotta go with ABDH on this....it's a video game monstrosity. The intellectuals have to keep dreaming stuff like this up to keep getting their grants, and it looks awesome in Halo, but best left on the shelf as a prototype. Hell, Canada can't afford to keep it's Navy floating, and is flying 40 year old CF-18s...imagine what outfitting our troops with those things would cost??

[airbornedeerhunter]

Maybe this is the beginning of a change to a new service weapon, I tell ya when we opened the container and starred down at the C7/8 we laughed. When we stripped,cleaned assembled and put them to simple range use their was fore stocks falling off, mag falling out or not feeding proper etc, total frustration with the new weapon. The FN was heavier, hit harder, more reliable, we were so use to it, all cuddled up to her rolled up in my hooch...then came the little plastic toy which won the hearts of the new breed of soldier. It might happen again and the cycle starts over.
Nothing like doing days, weeks of drill parade, get it all down for the day, on the first present arms the little black gun falls apart and hits the cement....another month taken away due to extra duties:sHa_sarcasticlol:

Yes, but there have been vast improvements to the C7/C8 since they were first brought into service in 80's. The plastic mags are long gone, replaced by metal ones, the butt stock is now collapsible with 3 length settings, ambidextrous selector switch's and mag releases on either side of the lower receiver, quad rails for the hand guards to allow attachment of surefires, laser aiming devices etc, the pencil thin barreled original C8's have been binned and replaced by flat topped heavy barrel new models. 5.56mm allows you to carry much more ammunition than the old 7.62 FN and the compact profile and length of the C8 in particular allow for effective operating in confined areas like MOUT, pretty hilarious looking at old photos of guys doing room clearances in the FIBUA house with FN's where the muzzle enters the room 10 seconds before the man! The new C7A2/C8A2 are an entirely different weapon system than the original models.

[58thecat]

Yes, but there have been vast improvements to the C7/C8 since they were first brought into service in 80's. The plastic mags are long gone, replaced by metal ones, the butt stock is now collapsible with 3 length settings, ambidextrous selector switch's and mag releases on either side of the lower receiver, quad rails for the hand guards to allow attachment of surefires, laser aiming devices etc, the pencil thin barreled original C8's have been binned and replaced by flat topped heavy barrel new models. 5.56mm allows you to carry much more ammunition than the old 7.62 FN and the compact profile and length of the C8 in particular allow for effective operating in confined areas like MOUT, pretty hilarious looking at old photos of guys doing room clearances in the FIBUA house with FN's where the muzzle enters the room 10 seconds before the man! The new C7A2/C8A2 are an entirely different weapon system than the original models.
Yeah I watch tactics now when compared to yesteryear wow, we then took a beating maybe that is why we go snap,crackle,pop, when starting the day out and you are right a vast improvement from the original C7/8 but you would have thought that the powers to be would have worked out some of the snags prior to issue, than again I was at the wrong pay scale to challenge this or I would be back to peeling potatoes...:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[recce43]

We went from the old smg to the c8 in the armoured corp.it was a improvment .. smg fitted with a butte4 knife was stupid . Then the c8 plastic mags and taping forstock on . Then the upgrades started coming. Its a good weapons platform now.

[elkdump]

Maybe this is the beginning of a change to a new service weapon, I tell ya when we opened the container and starred down at the C7/8 we laughed. When we stripped,cleaned assembled and put them to simple range use their was fore stocks falling off, mag falling out or not feeding proper etc, total frustration with the new weapon. The FN was heavier, hit harder, more reliable, we were so use to it, all cuddled up to her rolled up in my hooch...then came the little plastic toy which won the hearts of the new breed of soldier. It might happen again and the cycle starts over.
Nothing like doing days, weeks of drill parade, get it all down for the day, on the first present arms the little black gun falls apart and hits the cement....another month taken away due to extra duties:sHa_sarcasticlol:

I loved the FN FAL 7.62 NATO , I hated the Plastic pee shooter 5.56 NATO made by US Armalite , even self respecting GI's in Vietnam would grow his issued AR in the Rice paddies and pick up a good AK 47 off a dead cong , at least he now had a dependable weapon

[recce43]

m16 in Vietnam is not the same wepon used today. The fn was heavy and the c2 was heavier ammo was heavy thegas tube and plug would get dirty fast crap woyld get into the bolt . C7/8 you can carry twice as much ammo . Its easy to clean you can add 40mm gernade to it flash lights forehand pistol grips . C8 is easy to manhandle it tight quarters. And is very reliable platform

[airbornedeerhunter]

I loved the FN FAL 7.62 NATO , I hated the Plastic pee shooter 5.56 NATO made by US Armalite , even self respecting GI's in Vietnam would grow his issued AR in the Rice paddies and pick up a good AK 47 off a dead cong , at least he now had a dependable weapon

How's the weather in the La Brea tar pits?

The early M 16's of the Vietnam era caused problems because they were not issued with cleaning kits, the training was substandard, there was very little in the enforcement of weapons maintenance and stoppages were frequent because the bolt at that time was not fitted with gas rings. The early model of the Canadian C7 had it's own growing pains but the current A2 variants are the top of the mark when it comes to assault rifles.

The "plastic pea shooter" as you call it is a pretty ridiculous statement when talking about the modern C7/C8 family. Put several hundred rounds through the one in this picture on my last tour and never had one stoppage! It's a stud!

[elkdump]

How's the weather in the La Brea tar pits?

The early M 16's of the Vietnam era caused problems because they were not issued with cleaning kits, the training was substandard, there was very little in the enforcement of weapons maintenance and stoppages were frequent because the bolt at that time was not fitted with gas rings. The early model of the Canadian C7 had it's own growing pains but the current A2 variants are the top of the mark when it comes to assault rifles.

The "plastic pea shooter" as you call it is a pretty ridiculous statement when talking about the modern C7/C8 family. Put several hundred rounds through the one in this picture on my last tour and never had one stoppage! It's a stud!

Well several hundred rounds is very impressive,,,

[airbornedeerhunter]

Well several hundred rounds is very impressive,,,

Tell us some Cyprus and Germany story's!

[twofifty]

good one.
Prolly wore out a couple BFAs.

[dowierjp]

good one.
Prolly wore out a couple BFAs.

You must have seen a lot of action in Germany?!?!?

[HalfBreed]

Woe is he who has heard the odd angry shot.

[Iron Brew]

While I realize many lived through the "growing pains" of the C7 and came to like it, I exited before it was a great platform. I liked my FN. When it comes down to it, I liked the bigger cartridge, and I disliked the early C7 platform. Glad it's a good rifle now.

Given my druthers, I would prefer a larger cartridge though. Feedback from those with more experience? How does the 5.56 do vs. the 7.62 on say mud walls, etc? Besides the old weight argument. How is the actual round in nasty conditions? I know both are still used (albeit one as a machine gun round).

I still remember an American "You ever been in combat, boy?". He got ****ed after he told me he didn't care who you were, when those rounds were zinging over your head, you would select full auto, hold the rifle over your head, and fire. When I didn't answer, he asked if I thought I was better than him. I answered I'd break my arm if I tried that, due to the cartridge difference. Conversation had a few other pointed bits, but... I was a polite boy... :love0025:

[HalfBreed]

It's definitely easier to clean the gas tube on the C7, that plug on the C1 /2 was a pain, same as the breaking lever to get at the bolt carrier. The navy had the cool one though for boarding party, IIRC it's designation had a 'D' and it had an 'Auto' selection. I wouldn't want to be hit by either round, regardless of the wounding vs stopping power argument. The FN certainly has more reach and the ability to bruise it's user. :fighting0007:

[Iron Brew]

Ah - the plug. Rub it on the Petawawa sand, and the flats were cleaned. Damp up a boot lace, roll it in sand and voila - the groove was cleaned... LMAO. I had forgotten that...

[Zulu9er]

Ah - the plug. Rub it on the Petawawa sand, and the flats were cleaned. Damp up a boot lace, roll it in sand and voila - the groove was cleaned... LMAO. I had forgotten that...

The sulphur on a match head worked well in the Plug groove too,, but there was nothing like the sand of the Mattawa plain to clean those in Petawawa,,lol

[Iron Brew]

The sulphur on a match head worked well in the Plug groove too,, but there was nothing like the sand of the Mattawa plain to clean those in Petawawa,,lol

Ah. The Mattawa flats... I think about that at my age, and wonder how the hell I ever had that energy...

And the mosquitos/blackflies. Still makes me laugh when people (especially Vancouver Island) complain about mosquitos...