Update - Deryl Ring and confrontation with snowmobilers..

[Leafy]

Interesting how this ended..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/deryl-ring-gets-conditional-discharge-for-confrontation-with-snowmobilers-1.2963087

[AlbertaCutthroat]

Best to SSS........not completely serious but recreational ATV'ers are pests on the landscape. We have had close to a $1000 in tree's/ shelter-belts damaged by trespassing snowmobiles/quads over the past couple years, I understand the emotions than can get involved. We came up with a deterrent system last summer which shouldn't even be needed on posted private land. Good news is it seems to work as the dummies are creatures of habit.

Glad the landowner got off relatively easy, wish the snowmobilers were held accountable though.

[expmler]

Smerechanski stated they were riding across fields when they made a wrong turn on to private land.

It's all private land, you trespassing idiot.

[dmcbride]

Best to SSS........not completely serious but recreational ATV'ers are pests on the landscape. We have had close to a $1000 in tree's/ shelter-belts damaged by trespassing snowmobiles/quads over the past couple years, I understand the emotions than can get involved. We came up with a deterrent system last summer which shouldn't even be needed on posted private land. Good news is it seems to work as the dummies are creatures of habit.

Glad the landowner got off relatively easy, wish the snowmobilers were held accountable though.

X2

[waterninja]

I think mr. Ring was very lucky to only get the sentence he recieved. I can understand how frustrated he must have felt if he thought his livestock was being harrased, but by the time it gets to court there is no question that he assaulted one of the riders and near the end of the clip his shotgun "sweeps" the rider. That alone could have cost him a heavy fine or jailtime.

[Sushi]

When I first moved to Alberta almost 20 years ago, I was surprised and disheartened to hear how seriously landowners take trespassing. As in threatening, prosecuting, and even shooting to kill. I owe my perspective to being raised in the Maritimes where trespassing is simply an accepted, neighbourly practice, so long as you aren't vandalizing. Two different worlds...

Just reflecting, not judging either way...

[leo]

When I first moved to Alberta almost 20 years ago, I was surprised and disheartened to hear how seriously landowners take trespassing. As in threatening, prosecuting, and even shooting to kill. I owe my perspective to being raised in the Maritimes where trespassing is simply an accepted, neighbourly practice, so long as you aren't vandalizing. Two different worlds...

Just reflecting, not judging either way...

You just described rural Alberta in the 70's and early 80's. I leave it up to others to speculate why it changed. Having owned a farm, nothing used to wind me up more than total strangers wandering around without permission on my or my neighbors cultivated property without any remorse.

[lmtada]

You just described rural Alberta in the 70's and early 80's. I leave it up to others to speculate why it changed. Having owned a farm, nothing used to wind me up more than total strangers wandering around without permission on my or my neighbors cultivated property without any remorse.

X2 Leo. I agree. However, coming from a small community. We usually knew who it was, and therefore did not worry about locals crossing our fields. However when they come and ripped apart our driveway that was a different story. :argue2::argue2:

[fish_e_o]

that guy is straight mental. pull up, stop them, and explain that they're in the wrong spot.

once that's done post your land as private and no trespassing because guys like to follow tracks.


that being said my neighbor crosses my land with his sled all the time. i make sure when i clear the snow off my driveway he still has a way to go through so he and his daughter can go have some fun

[pdog15]

Given the times we live in, I suppose the guy was lucky to get the penalty he got.

Now, what about the trespassers? If they got off with no penalty, then it is basically a sick joke. They had to have know full well that they had to have been/were trespassing at the time. Running roughshod/trespassing/damaging private property has to stop and letting people like this (trespassers) off the hook is not going to do it.

[tri777]

I really believe if you are a respectful off road recreational vehicle owner/driver
That you are truly in the minority category! I constantly see and hear heavy handed throttle squeezers that want to use all 100+hp no matter where or what or who's terrain their wheels are traveling upon.

[expmler]

that guy is straight mental. pull up, stop them, and explain that they're in the wrong spot.

once that's done post your land as private and no trespassing because guys like to follow tracks.


that being said my neighbor crosses my land with his sled all the time. i make sure when i clear the snow off my driveway he still has a way to go through so he and his daughter can go have some fun

Do you hunt on non posted private land without permission?

Why is it up to the farmer to post his land and not up to the sledder to ask permission before entering the property?

[fish_e_o]

Why is it up to the farmer to post his land and not up to the sledder to ask permission before entering the property?

i said it was because people like to follow tracks

it's the truth sledders always follow other sledders tracks so it would be wise to post by the tracks

he doesn't have to but i guess he'll find out what happens

[NEWB]

So 2 guys are tresspassing, the land owner confronts them and the land owner gets charged and the tresspassers are free to go.

Seems legit.

[My name is nobody]

You have to be careful these days with everyone wearing Go Pros. One has to wonder how many wrong turns into private property are made by snow machine users who then claim they didn't know.

[NEWB]

that guy is straight mental. pull up, stop them, and explain that they're in the wrong spot.

once that's done post your land as private and no trespassing because guys like to follow tracks.


that being said my neighbor crosses my land with his sled all the time. i make sure when i clear the snow off my driveway he still has a way to go through so he and his daughter can go have some fun

Fisheo,

What is your address?

I want to do some wheeling with a bunch of buddies and tear up your land.

I don't need your permission. Just your address.

If there are any no trespassing signs we will tear them down and claim we did not see them.

I will make sure we all wear go pros so when you freak out we can say you are mental and take you to the cleaners. We have mad editing skills!

Thank you

[dcutter]

This idiot was completely unhinged!!!!! I completely understand his frustration with dummies on his property, but his reaction to this was deadly force?!?! And sorry to all the hill billies who feel they can offer to kill someone for damage to their trees, or for scaring your lievestock, but wow...this guy got off way too easy in my opinion.

And before you ask where I live NEWB, I'm on a little acreage just outside Cold Lake. I've got several hundred dollars invested in a green belt, and if a retard on a sled / dirt bike / quad was to come through my property I would definitely be upset. Would I be upset enough to threaten to kill the guy?! I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!

This idiot should NEVER be allowed to possess firearms.

[Immigrant]

In sask the trespassing law states the land needs to be posted. If no sign that says "no trespassing" or "private property" it is a free for all. If you find someone on your unposted land, you can tell him to leave. If he refuses, or comes back later he is trespassing.
So the snowmobilers in this case were in the clear because there were no signs to tell them to keep out

[fish_e_o]

Fisheo,

What is your address?

I want to do some wheeling with a bunch of buddies and tear up your land.

I don't need your permission. Just your address.

If there are any no trespassing signs we will tear them down and claim we did not see them.

I will make sure we all wear go pros so when you freak out we can say you are mental and take you to the cleaners. We have mad editing skills!

Thank you
4119 50 Street, Leduc, AB


city people :snapoutofit:

[fish_e_o]

This idiot was completely unhinged!!!!! I completely understand his frustration with dummies on his property, but his reaction to this was deadly force?!?! And sorry to all the hill billies who feel they can offer to kill someone for damage to their trees, or for scaring your lievestock, but wow...this guy got off way too easy in my opinion.

And before you ask where I live NEWB, I'm on a little acreage just outside Cold Lake. I've got several hundred dollars invested in a green belt, and if a retard on a sled / dirt bike / quad was to come through my property I would definitely be upset. Would I be upset enough to threaten to kill the guy?! I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!

This idiot should NEVER be allowed to possess firearms.
i agree

i cant believe some people are advocating the use of deadly force over such a simple thing solved with a little awareness

[roughneckin]

So 2 guys are tresspassing, the land owner confronts them and the land owner gets charged and the tresspassers are free to go.

Seems legit.

With a shotgun is the key!! Not just confrontation, but with a firearm. This isn't the Wild West anymore.

Trespassing is bad I've had a few I've dealt with but I've never thought about bringing a gun to the party. Where do we live Afganistan??

[NEWB]

4119 50 Street, Leduc, AB

Thanks!

Here is mine!

9620 - 103A Avenue Edmonton,
AB

If you think it is ok to tresspass then post up your real address. :)

[NEWB]

This idiot was completely unhinged!!!!! I completely understand his frustration with dummies on his property, but his reaction to this was deadly force?!?! And sorry to all the hill billies who feel they can offer to kill someone for damage to their trees, or for scaring your lievestock, but wow...this guy got off way too easy in my opinion.

And before you ask where I live NEWB, I'm on a little acreage just outside Cold Lake. I've got several hundred dollars invested in a green belt, and if a retard on a sled / dirt bike / quad was to come through my property I would definitely be upset. Would I be upset enough to threaten to kill the guy?! I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!

This idiot should NEVER be allowed to possess firearms.

Give your head a shake if you think I was serious about tresspassing.


I am uncertain as to what kind of encounters he has had in the past or damage done on his property. In his mind was sufficient to warrant that action.

There are different methods to address situations like this. :)

[fish_e_o]

If you think it is ok to tresspass then post up your real address. :)
who said it was ok?

i said it's not ok to threaten to shoot someone over such a stupid thing. guns aren't meant for violence they're used as tools. he used his in a violent manner as the aggressor.

[fish_e_o]

I am uncertain as to what kind of encounters he has had in the past or damage done on his property. In his mind was sufficient to warrant that action.

no property damage is worth taking someones life.

[NEWB]

who said it was ok?

i said it's not ok to threaten to shoot someone over such a stupid thing. guns aren't meant for violence they're used as tools. he used his in a violent manner as the aggressor.

He was using it as a tool to convey a message.

no property damage is worth taking someones life.

Then you have nothing to worry about when my buddies and I tear up your land with our jacked up dodge dulleys and sleds. Perhaps we will do a little hunting on there too!:)

[fish_e_o]

He was using it as a tool to convey a message.



Then you have nothing to worry about when my buddies and I tear up your land with our jacked up dodge dulleys and sleds. Perhaps we will do a little hunting on there too!:)

i'm not going to get baited into a fight with you.

if you do as you threatened in your message to me "find my property" then i'll simply call the cops.

[NEWB]

i'm not going to get baited into a fight with you.

if you do as you threatened in your message to me "find my property" then i'll simply call the cops.

It was not a threat. Feel free to contact them and I would love to have a conversation with them.

If you can not back it up then that is fine. Just say so. :)

I do not own a dodge dulley, nor a sled. I was illustrating a point. You seemed to become freaked out and paranoid when I mentioned my buddies and I would come up and tear up your land.

This was a complete 180 from when you did not have a problem with it initially.

Hope this was put into terms you can understand. :)

[fish_e_o]

It was not a threat. Feel free to contact them and I would love to have a conversation with them.

If you can not back it up then that is fine. Just say so. :)

I do not own a dodge dulley, nor a sled. I was illustrating a point. You seemed to become freaked out and paranoid when I mentioned my buddies and I would come up and tear up your land.

This was a complete 180 from when you did not have a problem with it initially.

Hope this was put into terms you can understand. :)
i think it was a simple misunderstanding this is from my first post that you quoted

pull up, stop them, and explain that they're in the wrong spot.

basically what he did minus the gun.

[expmler]

i'm not going to get baited into a fight with you.

if you do as you threatened in your message to me "find my property" then i'll simply call the cops.

Will you ask the cops to leave their guns at home.

[NEWB]

i think it was a simple misunderstanding this is from my first post that you quoted


basically what he did minus the gun.

It could be a misunderstanding. If it was then I apologize.

I do agree in speaking with them first. However many trespassers feel entitled to the land. Simply put if permission is denied then it should be respected. It appears many times this is not the case.

The trespassers are tearing down signs ignoring permissions etc. Perhaps the land owner has taken a substantial financial loss because of trespassing and he has already talked to these people nicely. This may be the next step. I am unsure as I was not there.

There are many ways to deescalate the situation before it reaches that. Personally I would not bring my pistol out do deal with that situation as the precedence is set and the "poor trespassers" are the victim now.

As far as I am concerned if you are trespassing the trespassers lose all rights regardless of signage they may or may not have read.

The land owner should have all the rights to do as he pleases. However our legal system is taking away those rights.

[expmler]

In sask the trespassing law states the land needs to be posted. If no sign that says "no trespassing" or "private property" it is a free for all. If you find someone on your unposted land, you can tell him to leave. If he refuses, or comes back later he is trespassing.
So the snowmobilers in this case were in the clear because there were no signs to tell them to keep out

You are right, but that only applies to land outside of the city. So the two sledders enjoy the right of private property without having to put a sign on their lawn when it comes to their lot in the city and they expect it to be respected. A huge double standard that needs to be changed.

[fish_e_o]

There are many ways to deescalate the situation before it reaches that. Personally I would not bring my pistol out do deal with that situation as the precedence is set and the "poor trespassers" are the victim now.

exactly.

the farmer could have very well had a scared lama break a leg from running in an iced pen or trying to jump a gate to escape. but now who is the victim? the guys who got the shotgun pulled on them!

he could have rammed the guy with his truck and got in less trouble *not that i think anyone should ram anyone with their truck over this sort of thing*

Will you ask the cops to leave their guns at home.

really??? a troll post?... to state it plainly i have no problem using a gun in the defense of a life regardless of consequences. better judged by 12 than carried by 6. this was not in defense of a life.

i do not think guns should be used by people as a scare tactic. it's poor publicity and it brings bad light to gun owners everywhere

[airbornedeerhunter]

So 2 guys are tresspassing, the land owner confronts them and the land owner gets charged and the tresspassers are free to go.

Seems legit.

Legit is right! The act of trespassing does not give you the right to assault someone while brandishing a firearm. There was so much that could have gone wrong here! What if the guy slipped and the shotty went off striking one of the sledders? What if there had been a struggle and the shotty went off, killing one of them? He claims it was unloaded but who knows. What he did was wrong plain and simple. As for the trespassers, yes it's a problem and yes they should have been sanctioned for it but angrily confronting someone with a shotgun and then striking them is not the answer.

Personally I think the guy is a tool, any idiot would have seen the GoPro's on their helmets and immediately rethought what they were about to do.

A simple explanation that they were on private land and that they had to go would have sufficed. And, please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't this incident happen on someone else's land adjacent to the shotgun guys? If that's the case then maybe he was trespassing too!

[BANG]

I would expect to be treated no different if caught tresspassing on land then if i was caught tresspassing in someones home.
Hell many people value there land above there home.
There would be a lot less tresspassing if people treated it as such.

[Immigrant]

You are right, but that only applies to land outside of the city. So the two sledders enjoy the right of private property without having to put a sign on their lawn when it comes to their lot in the city and they expect it to be respected. A huge double standard that needs to be changed.

I hear you man. I have a section of land. Half my hunting season I spend confronting trespassers who ignored my signs. And then I get told to "relax". I don't get the mentality of people that feel they are entiteled to the land I worked so hard to purchase

[expmler]

exactly.

the farmer could have very well had a scared lama break a leg from running in an iced pen or trying to jump a gate to escape. but now who is the victim? the guys who got the shotgun pulled on them!

he could have rammed the guy with his truck and got in less trouble *not that i think anyone should ram anyone with their truck over this sort of thing*



really??? a troll post?... to state it plainly i have no problem using a gun in the defense of a life regardless of consequences. better judged by 12 than carried by 6. this was not in defense of a life.

i do not think guns should be used by people as a scare tactic. it's poor publicity and it brings bad light to gun owners everywhere

One farmer confronting 2 trespassers on a country road, the fact he had a gun in plain sight may have acted as a deterrent to being attacked and hurt or worse.

Better to have a gun and not need it than to need one and not have it.

[fish_e_o]

Better to have a gun and not need it than to need one and not have it.

have it and not need it on the seat of your truck.

plain and simple he handled it wrong and i doubt two sledders are going to kill someone who is polite and says "it scares the animals and they could be hurt, please don't cut through"

[expmler]

have it and not need it on the seat of your truck.

plain and simple he handled it wrong and i doubt two sledders are going to kill someone who is polite and says "it scares the animals and they could be hurt, please don't cut through"

Would a lone cop leave his gun in the car under the same conditions confronting 2 trespassers.

[fish_e_o]

Would a lone cop leave his gun in the car under the same conditions confronting 2 trespassers.

it's my personal belief that even though 911 will never respond to me in less than an hour i'm still not the police and i do not have the right to do that. what if one of them had a pistol in a holster? they will pull it if you have your shotgun pointed at them. they may not if you're polite and inform them of the situation maybe even had a go-pro of your own

it's escalating beyond what is required.

each to their own

[expmler]

it's my personal belief that even though 911 will never respond to me in less than an hour i'm still not the police and i do not have the right to do that. what if one of them had a pistol in a holster? they will pull it if you have your shotgun pointed at them. they may not if you're polite and inform them of the situation maybe even had a go-pro of your own

it's escalating beyond what is required.

each to their own

If you want to play the what if game, what if one of the guys had of hit the farmer in the head with a whiskey bottle and left him there unconscious and he froze to death.

So I am supposed to be polite to next pair of trespassers that have already shown they do not respect me or my property, and be sure to get my possible beat down on video.

[norwestalta]

Airborne, I don't understand what a go pro has to do with how it would be handled. Go pro might have been a plus.
It makes me wonder how many of the people that think the land owner is wrong in the way he handled the situation are in fact are renters or slob landowners who might not have much pride in what they've built for themselves.
As a landowner I would greet trespassers with more than a smile I assure you.

[Bushrat]

This idiot was completely unhinged!!!!! I completely understand his frustration with dummies on his property, but his reaction to this was deadly force?!?!

What deadly force, I didn't see anybody get killed or injured in any way.

On the other hand if a few trespassers really were shot others might get the message.

[airbornedeerhunter]

Airborne, I don't understand what a go pro has to do with how it would be handled. Go pro might have been a plus.
It makes me wonder how many of the people that think the land owner is wrong in the way he handled the situation are in fact are renters or slob landowners who might not have much pride in what they've built for themselves.
As a landowner I would greet trespassers with more than a smile I assure you.

Well if you greeted them the way he did you'd be in the same boat as him and your guns would be in purgatory at the local RCMP station for 12 months! I thought the sledders showed considerable restraint in the situation, they could have easily overpowered him and beat his brains out and they would have been justified in the eyes of the law as acting in self defence.

He was not wrong in his anger and frustration at the situation but his actions were his undoing and the GoPro has everything to do with it because it's what got him convicted.

I'm not defending the sledders, they were in fact trespassing but the actions of the guy were completely over the top. This type of thing is pure fodder for the anti's who use these types of incidents in their quest to paint gun owners as lunatics with a propensity for violence. When are people going to learn, any act committed in Canada while in possession of a firearm will result in arrest, trial, lawyers, huge legal bills and likely convictions. Is it worth it? This is not a case of a man fighting off two armed intruders who broke into his home in the dead of night with the clear intent to do him or his family harm. He went too far.

[norwestalta]

As a landowner I've heard "sorry I must of got lost" or "sorry I thought so and so owned the land ". There is no excuse to be trespassing plain and simple. If you're allowed to out east then maybe that's where you should be.

[huntwat]

that guy is straight mental. pull up, stop them, and explain that they're in the wrong spot.

once that's done post your land as private and no trespassing because guys like to follow tracks.


that being said my neighbor crosses my land with his sled all the time. i make sure when i clear the snow off my driveway he still has a way to go through so he and his daughter can go have some fun

Yes, the guy is an idiot. What's wrong with stopping and telling them there not supposed to be there? I mean, how much snow do you really damage with a snowmobile???? It's not like they were tearing up a crop or anything. Charge the 2 with trespassing. Charge the idiot, who is giving gun owners a bad name, to the fullest extent!! This is just ammo for the anti's. Here is just a poor farmer that owns a gun for predators???

[Hiwa]

If someone is clearly trespassing (lots of marked signs, evidence of livestock,etc), I can see being Po'd , but maybe someone doesn't know that they are inadverdantly trespassing or has a mental handicap or disability or just plain lost....you have to give the people the benefit of the doubt and a chance to explain themselves , not threaten them or attack them first , which this guy clearly did.

I've trespassed by mistake when I was a kid and the farmer explained to me I was on his field and might cause damage with my bike. He was polite, I apologised , and we parted ways. Nothing wrong with being civil first.

If it was my property and the tresspassers were armed ( as in hunters) I would probably let the authorities handle it and avoid an armed confrontation if possible.

I'm amazed at some of the " shoot first , ask questions later" responses on here from guys who would rather spend 10 years in jail regretting shooting some poor sob because they missed seeing the No Tresspassing sign , but on the same token sympathize with landowners that have to deal with the blatant ignorance of idiots who think they can go wherever they want to.
Jmho.

[norwestalta]

Yes, the guy is an idiot. What's wrong with stopping and telling them there not supposed to be there? I mean, how much snow do you really damage with a snowmobile???? It's not like they were tearing up a crop or anything. Charge the 2 with trespassing. Charge the idiot, who is giving gun owners a bad name, to the fullest extent!! This is just ammo for the anti's. Here is just a poor farmer that owns a gun for predators???

No worry of damaging the snow but I've seen where a snow mobile trail gets packed and next thing 5 dozen elk are using it to get to the haybales.

[expmler]

Well if you greeted them the way he did you'd be in the same boat as him and your guns would be in purgatory at the local RCMP station for 12 months! I thought the sledders showed considerable restraint in the situation, they could have easily overpowered him and beat his brains out and they would have been justified in the eyes of the law as acting in self defence.

He was not wrong in his anger and frustration at the situation but his actions were his undoing and the GoPro has everything to do with it because it's what got him convicted.

I'm not defending the sledders, they were in fact trespassing but the actions of the guy were completely over the top. This type of thing is pure fodder for the anti's who use these types of incidents in their quest to paint gun owners as lunatics with a propensity for violence. When are people going to learn, any act committed in Canada while in possession of a firearm will result in arrest, trial, lawyers, huge legal bills and likely convictions. Is it worth it? This is not a case of a man fighting off two armed intruders who broke into his home in the dead of night with the clear intent to do him or his family harm. He went too far.

Interesting, so if I encounter an armed hunter trespassing on my land I can beat him senseless and the law would say I was justified because I would be acting in self defense because he was armed.

Good to know.

[airbornedeerhunter]

Interesting, so if I encounter an armed hunter trespassing on my land I can beat him senseless and the law would say I was justified because I would be acting in self defense because he was armed.

Good to know.

Oh boy,

OK, read slowly! He attacked them, he....attacked.....them.....!

If you encounter an armed hunter on your land and he acts in the manner that the landowner in this case did, then yes you could beat the guy up within reason to defend yourself. Did you think about what you typed before you hit submit? He confronted two people who were trespassing, physically assaulted them while brandishing a shotgun.

Hiwa hit the nail on the head. Lots of "I would blasted him" mentality on these types of stories not realizing that unfortunately the criminal code in Canada is not on your side! You will, potentially ruin your life by not letting a cool head prevail and dealing with situations in an appropriate manner.

[Jack&7]

So I am supposed to be polite to next pair of trespassers that have already shown they do not respect me or my property, and be sure to get my possible beat down on video.

No...stand there and scream a blue streak, shake your fists, etc. etc...but in no way shape or form are you allowed (as CLEARLY stated by the laws of this country) to strike the person. Hell...you can't even APPROACH them in a threatening manner. And bringing out a shotgun??? Are you seriously defending this guy?



Well if you greeted them the way he did you'd be in the same boat as him and your guns would be in purgatory at the local RCMP station for 12 months! I thought the sledders showed considerable restraint in the situation, they could have easily overpowered him and beat his brains out and they would have been justified in the eyes of the law as acting in self defence.

He was not wrong in his anger and frustration at the situation but his actions were his undoing and the GoPro has everything to do with it because it's what got him convicted.

I'm not defending the sledders, they were in fact trespassing but the actions of the guy were completely over the top. This type of thing is pure fodder for the anti's who use these types of incidents in their quest to paint gun owners as lunatics with a propensity for violence. When are people going to learn, any act committed in Canada while in possession of a firearm will result in arrest, trial, lawyers, huge legal bills and likely convictions. Is it worth it? This is not a case of a man fighting off two armed intruders who broke into his home in the dead of night with the clear intent to do him or his family harm. He went too far.

^^^^^
This...exactly.

I am actually quite surprised to see how many of you would do exactly the same as Ring did. Oddly enough, all of you who are condoning the actions of this seriously unhinged man are justifying it by saying he has the right to do whatever it takes to protect his property. But nobody has seen the irony in the first element of this confrontation. Ring approaches with a weapon (if that isn't a 10 on the pucker factor scale...dunno what is.), but then goes on to repeatedly kick the sledder's machine. I don't want you to damage my property...so I WILL damage yours.

The second rider has cojones the size of Texas for even getting off his sled and approaching a guy holding a shotgun in an obviously hostile situation.

Listen...I am not giving the sledders a pass here. But it honestly could've been a mistake. And even if it wasn't and these guys drove over some snow, do you seriously support taking a shotgun after somebody for that? What Ring did was WAAAAAAAY over the line and he is damn lucky to get the slap and tickle sentence that he did. And I seriously hope that those of you who are justifying his actions are just showing a bit of keyboard bravado and not truly that way. There are a gazillion different ways to handle this situation. This was not the right way...and it shouldn't be a consideration for anyone else in this type of situation either.:snapoutofit:

And yes...I do own land. And yes...I have chased poachers off before. And no...I damn sure would not be threatening someone with a gun to do it.

[norwestalta]

I gotta agree abh. The courts of canada do not serve justice for the average Canadian citizen.
Haven't heard anyone say that the trespassers should of been shot. Tresspassers shouldn't be trespassing to begin with. Not a hard concept to figure out. Maybe in nfld it is.

[airbornedeerhunter]

I gotta agree abh. The courts of canada do not serve justice for the average Canadian citizen.
Haven't heard anyone say that the trespassers should of been shot. Tresspassers shouldn't be trespassing to begin with. Not a hard concept to figure out. Maybe in nfld it is.

What does Newfoundland have to do with this?

Trespassers most certainly should not be trespassing no matter what province they are doing it in. It seems the concept to figure out that you are struggling with it what is an appropriate response to this particular situation. I'll bet Ring regrets his actions on the inside and in private as it likely cost him a pile of cash in legal fees, a CD for 3 years and he lost his guns for 12 months. I can guarantee you that his PAL will take considerably longer than that to be reactivated and the RCMP will not give him back his guns until it is valid again.

Just think, if he had simply gotten out of the truck and told them to get off his land using any type of language he wanted none of this would have happened.

It was a disproportionate response to a benign situation.

[bobalong]

Smerechanski stated they were riding across fields when they made a wrong turn on to private land.

It's all private land, you trespassing idiot.

Exactly, and who was it that performed the initial bad act. If they had not trespassed, there would not have been a confrontation or a story.

I don't agree with the gun, as that changes the game, but because of the escalating ignorance and occurrences of trespassers, confrontations with landowners are going to escalate as well.

"Sorry we got lost" is just as pathetic an excuse, as saying that you didn't know the law, after you got caught breaking it. If you are going to be going out into the "country", it is your, and only your responsibility to know where the hell you are going. With the availability of county maps, GPS, etc, there is no excuse for trespassing, except for being lazy, and having a complete lack of respect for landowners.

By the judge letting the trespassers off, he has just sent a message out that trespassing is not really against the law, even if you get caught. And that is a big problem, and will continue to result with trespassing being the biggest conflict between landowners and outdoorsman.

Something for all you defenders of the idiot trespassers in this incident to think about, how much land do you think in this area will now be closed to ALL outdoor users, because of the actions of these idiots.?

[norwestalta]

What does Newfoundland have to do with this?

Trespassers most certainly should not be trespassing no matter what province they are doing it in. It seems the concept to figure out that you are struggling with it what is an appropriate response to this particular situation. I'll bet Ring regrets his actions on the inside and in private as it likely cost him a pile of cash in legal fees, a CD for 3 years and he lost his guns for 12 months. I can guarantee you that his PAL will take considerably longer than that to be reactivated and the RCMP will not give him back his guns until it is valid again.

Just think, if he had simply gotten out of the truck and told them to get off his land using any type of language he wanted none of this would have happened.

It was a disproportionate response to a benign situation.

On previous trespassing thread the east coasters have no regards for trespassing. Allowed out there for some reason.
Two wrongs don't make a right but if the first wrong were never committed there would be no problem.

[silverdoctor]

Sigh, so many threads in here on trespassing and people talking of putting up signs like "due to ammo shortage, warning shots will not be fired".


Pretty sad that the trespassers didn't get charged - but I for one am glad to see a legal PRECEDENT set that supports firearms for a change.

Ring could have been charged and gone to jail - but instead lost his firearms for a year. That's a pretty good outcome considering this is Canada. But yet, same old crowd afraid of the anti's - don't want to stir up a hornets nest around them.

[Hydro1]

"sorry we got lost" is just as pathetic an excuse, as saying that you didn't know the law, after you got caught breaking it. If you are going to be going out into the "country", it is your, and only your responsibility to know where the hell you are going. With the availability of county maps, gps, etc, there is no excuse for trespassing, except for being lazy, and having a complete lack of respect for landowners.

bingo!

[airbornedeerhunter]

On previous trespassing thread the east coasters have no regards for trespassing. Allowed out there for some reason.
Two wrongs don't make a right but if the first wrong were never committed there would be no problem.

Uh, No. One guy said that. I can assure you that trespassing is taken just as seriously in Atlantic Canada as it is in Alberta, it is most certainly not "allowed out there" as you put it.

"but if the first wrong were never committed there would be no problem"

Brilliant! I'm sure that would be a great defence, too bad Ring never thought of that, he may have had it thrown out with that nugget.

Anyway, we have differing opinions. It seems though that when you couldn't rebut what I was saying you derailed it into making it about "the east"! Which has about as much to do with this thread as Red China!

[TUFFBUFF]

Sounds like that guy had enough and the two sledders were unlucky that day, don't blame him got his point across and anyone with a holding a gun demands respect and attention.
Maybe the noise ran his stock through the fence and vet bills, your time/money fixing stuff, abortions and poor weight gain by stressed animals, who knows.
Sledders will follow tracks, look lets see where this goes! Maybe the landowner made them you don't know. I'm sure no one would like someone tearing up your front yard no matter where you live repeatedly and then saying they were lost, didn't know where they were or said they saw someone else do it etc.
Also skidoo tracks pack the snow and drive the frost into the ground, this can cause winterkill on perennial crops so don't think your not hurting anything.
I'm on the owners side, he just should have maybe controlled himself a bit better, unfortunately laws are made to be broken they say and the consequences are usually minimal.
We have a skidoo, animals, land - owned and rented, posted and not, and have trespassed before and caught some as well. If I ran into someone trespassing and I had my rifle out hunting I probably wouldn't put it down so the person(s) wouldn't be uncomfortable cause they should be, your responsible to know where you are and for your own actions. :scared0015:

[expmler]

No...stand there and scream a blue streak, shake your fists, etc. etc...but in no way shape or form are you allowed (as CLEARLY stated by the laws of this country) to strike the person. Hell...you can't even APPROACH them in a threatening manner. And bringing out a shotgun??? Are you seriously defending this guy?





^^^^^
This...exactly.

I am actually quite surprised to see how many of you would do exactly the same as Ring did. Oddly enough, all of you who are condoning the actions of this seriously unhinged man are justifying it by saying he has the right to do whatever it takes to protect his property. But nobody has seen the irony in the first element of this confrontation. Ring approaches with a weapon (if that isn't a 10 on the pucker factor scale...dunno what is.), but then goes on to repeatedly kick the sledder's machine. I don't want you to damage my property...so I WILL damage yours.

The second rider has cojones the size of Texas for even getting off his sled and approaching a guy holding a shotgun in an obviously hostile situation.

Listen...I am not giving the sledders a pass here. But it honestly could've been a mistake. And even if it wasn't and these guys drove over some snow, do you seriously support taking a shotgun after somebody for that? What Ring did was WAAAAAAAY over the line and he is damn lucky to get the slap and tickle sentence that he did. And I seriously hope that those of you who are justifying his actions are just showing a bit of keyboard bravado and not truly that way. There are a gazillion different ways to handle this situation. This was not the right way...and it shouldn't be a consideration for anyone else in this type of situation either.:snapoutofit:

And yes...I do own land. And yes...I have chased poachers off before. And no...I damn sure would not be threatening someone with a gun to do it.

There is no way it can be a mistake. We have RM maps available to anyone. The map outlines every road and every quarter of land is outlined and labeled with the owners name, plus the location of the home of every land owner is clearly marked on the map.

It is a case of a couple entitled city clowns who think that it is a free for all once they leave the city limits and they don't want to take the time to find out who owns the land and if they can have permission to cross the land.
This wasn't the first time these guys had done this. There are regulated and designated sled trails just north of the city open to every one. These clowns chose to go on private land where they thought they could do whatever they wanted and not have to follow the rules of the trail.

Then when they are confronted they run to the media and play the innocent victim that just took a wrong turn.

Then the media blows it out of proportion and everybody focuses on the farmer. Someone here even called it a case of "deadly force" and the guys here who can see the side of the farmer are accused of a shoot first mentality when no one ever said he should have shot them.

This was not the first time sledders had trespassed on this guys land, it happens every weekend when the snow hits, especially that close to the city.

Just be glad you have never been pushed to the point of taking a rash action as a last resort.

[Leafy]

Deryl was 62 when this confrontation with the trespassing recreationalists happened. I am sure Deryl would have grown up old school, spanked his children and taught them respect as his generation didn't coddle nor worry what someone else thought :)

Unfortunately we have created a society where respect is gone, personal property means nothing and there is no consequences to deter most douche bags.

The man had enough and stood his ground, big friggen deal. If this 62 year old man would not have had the shotty, ( which the breach was open ) we wouldn't even be discussing this..

[KegRiver]

Deryl was 62 when this confrontation with the trespassing recreationalists happened. I am sure Deryl would have grown up old school, spanked his children and taught them respect as his generation didn't coddle nor worry what someone else thought :)

Unfortunately we have created a society where respect is gone, personal property means nothing and there is no consequences to deter most douche bags.

The man had enough and stood his ground, big friggen deal. If this 62 year old man would not have had the shotty, ( which the breach was open ) we wouldn't even be discussing this..

If he had not had that shotgun he would most likely be spending the rest of his life in a wheal chair or on life support.

People who have no respect for private property also have no respect for the rights of others, and no respect for the law. They are capable of anything because in their minds, the law does not apply to them.

That is the society we have created. James Roszko was not an anomaly, he was a symptom.

[huntwat]

No worry of damaging the snow but I've seen where a snow mobile trail gets packed and next thing 5 dozen elk are using it to get to the haybales.

And I suppose those elk wouldn't have made it to those hay bales if it wasn't for the machines???
Anyways, back on point, the guy used a gun illegally. Pretty simple.
Like I said, ammo for the anti's.

[beltburner]

It's interesting how when a random person reads through threads like this without any preconceived notions about it; the landowners/farmers seem like the crazy violent ones of the groups.

[Blastoff]

He should of got more than 50 hours, it's BS that he needed to go with a shotgun, without shotgun would have been enough

[Cinch]

In sask the trespassing law states the land needs to be posted. If no sign that says "no trespassing" or "private property" it is a free for all. If you find someone on your unposted land, you can tell him to leave. If he refuses, or comes back later he is trespassing.
So the snowmobilers in this case were in the clear because there were no signs to tell them to keep out
That is no longer the case in regards to ATV/OTV, bird watching, berry picking, etc. With the exception of licensed hunting, trapping and fishing a person must have permission to enter private land. Thus, landowners must post their land to keep out hunters, trappers, and fishers. The law was changed 4 years ago but enforcement is a joke.

[fishunter327]

If he had not had that shotgun he would most likely be spending the rest of his life in a wheal chair or on life support.

People who have no respect for private property also have no respect for the rights of others, and no respect for the law. They are capable of anything because in their minds, the law does not apply to them.

That is the society we have created. James Roszko was not an anomaly, he was a symptom.

OMG really?

[expmler]

It's interesting how when a random person reads through threads like this without any preconceived notions about it; the landowners/farmers seem like the crazy violent ones of the groups.

More like the ones tired and frustrated with having to deal with entitled, disrespectful, trespassing, douche bags every weekend.

[igorot]

The judge should have awarded the GO-pro to the farmer to solve his trespassing problem :). Don't give me the "why should I it is my land I do what I want" . We do not live in a perfect world and life was never fair. If you do the crime suck it up and do the time. And remember you own the right to the land but nobody own the land itself

[icehunter]

I didn't read all the comments but its real friggen simple...just because some one else took a sled or what ever across some one"s land...doesn't mean you are entitled to do the same thing.Its real easy...you just drive up to the farmers door,or acreage owner...or what ever and ask for PERMISSION to cross the land...Once you get permission and follow the rules of gates or fences...then you proceed...its called RESPECT...they OWN the land...you don't...:snapoutofit:

[huntwat]

I didn't read all the comments but its real friggen simple...just because some one else took a sled or what ever across some one"s land...doesn't mean you are entitled to do the same thing.Its real easy...you just drive up to the farmers door,or acreage owner...or what ever and ask for PERMISSION to cross the land...Once you get permission and follow the rules of gates or fences...then you proceed...its called RESPECT...they OWN the land...you don't...:snapoutofit:



Absolutely, but if you don't do that, it doesn't give anyone the right to use a gun.

[Bushrat]

Absolutely, but if you don't do that, it doesn't give anyone the right to use a gun.

I saw him carrying a gun, nowhere did I see him using a gun, he might as well have had a Christmas card in his hand.

[huntwat]

I saw him carrying a gun, nowhere did I see him using a gun, he might as well have had a Christmas card in his hand.
right, and there is laws against committing a crime while in possession of a gun

[Deer Hunter]

He should of got more than 50 hours, it's BS that he needed to go with a shotgun, without shotgun would have been enough

X2
He was lucky the gun wasn't taken and used on him. If you decide the situation is dire enough that you need a gun, you better be prepared to use it.

[norwestalta]

right, and there is laws against committing a crime while in possession of a gun

So just a thought. If I'm outside working on my farm with my sidearm and a guy bee lines across my hay field to ask permission to hunt and I give him a blast and tell him to get the eff off my land in those words I've just assaulted him with my weapon because I had it on my person?

[airbornedeerhunter]

So just a thought. If I'm outside working on my farm with my sidearm and a guy bee lines across my hay field to ask permission to hunt and I give him a blast and tell him to get the eff off my land in those words I've just assaulted him with my weapon because I had it on my person?

If you struck him like Ring did you would be charged with assault.

You could also be charged with possession of a weapon dangerous to the public regardless if it is on your property or not.

Even if you didn't strike him and simply gestured that you would while screaming at him and in possession of a firearm you would be charged, why? Because in Canada you can "assault by gesture".

Just a question though? If a hunter had enough respect for you and your property to approach you and ask for your permission to access your property, why would you respond that way?

[norwestalta]

If you struck him like Ring did you would be charged with assault.

You could also be charged with possession of a weapon dangerous to the public regardless if it is on your property or not.

Even if you didn't strike him and simply gestured that you would while screaming at him and in possession of a firearm you would be charged, why? Because in Canada you can "assault by gesture".

Just a question though? If a hunter had enough respect for you and your property to approach you and ask for your permission to access your property, why would you respond that way?

If he had the respect that you mention he wouldn't of drove through the middle of my hay field.
Many would understand if they've ever tried haying in a rutted up hay field.

[huntwat]

So just a thought. If I'm outside working on my farm with my sidearm and a guy bee lines across my hay field to ask permission to hunt and I give him a blast and tell him to get the eff off my land in those words I've just assaulted him with my weapon because I had it on my person?

Well... I guess you just don't get it.

[expmler]

If you struck him like Ring did you would be charged with assault.

You could also be charged with possession of a weapon dangerous to the public regardless if it is on your property or not.

Even if you didn't strike him and simply gestured that you would while screaming at him and in possession of a firearm you would be charged, why? Because in Canada you can "assault by gesture".

Just a question though? If a hunter had enough respect for you and your property to approach you and ask for your permission to access your property, why would you respond that way?

Where is the respect shown by driving across someone's hay crop. Guys with respect can easily find out who owns the land and where he lives. Then come to the yard and knock on the door.

[airbornedeerhunter]

If he had the respect that you mention he wouldn't of drove through the middle of my hay field.

You never said anything in your original post about driving!

Yes, if someone drove across your fields then that is a dick move, still can't assault him though.

[airbornedeerhunter]

Where is the respect shown by driving across someone's hay crop.

He never said anything about driving! I just "bee lined it" to the fridge to get a beer.

[norwestalta]

Well... I guess you just don't get it.

I get it perfectly well. Stay off if it don't belong to you. Pretty easy concept for most.

[expmler]

He never said anything about driving! I just "bee lined it" to the fridge to get a beer.

What would you say if I (a stranger) "bee lined it" to your fridge for a beer.

[Talking moose]

What would you say if I (a stranger) "bee lined it" to your fridge for a beer.

Comparing your hay field to a persons home? Really? There's a reason why people getting caught in other people's homes arnt charged with trespassing....;) both are wrong though, one just more than the other

[airbornedeerhunter]

Pretty heated debates going on here. If I may segue for a minute- listen, if you are victim of trespassers there is a right way and wrong way to deal with it. I have never trespassed in my adult life and all the property's I access I have the express consent of the owners to do so.

For all those advocating for the use of force or the possession of a firearm while exhibiting that force against an individual, I can guarantee you that you have never had to deal with the criminal court system, the RCMP or the Canadian Firearms Center. As someone who has ( a long time ago) I can guarantee you that you would regret your actions if you did what he did.

You would be arrested, you would be charged, you would be released on conditions, you would have your PAL/POL/RPAL "frozen" pending disposition of the case, you would get a lawyer, you would spend anywhere from a few thousand to upwards of ten grand in lawyer fees, you could lose your firearms for an indefinite or pre-determined period of time, once either the case was disposed of by a not guilty finding or the period of time had passed that you could not be in possession of firearms it would take several more months for the CFC to re-activate your PAL so you could either pick up the guns from the RCMP or legally be in possession of one at all.

No one is arguing that the sledders were right or that the owner was frustrated and rightfully PO'd at the situation but assault and assault while in possession of a weapon are black and white under the CC of Canada.

If you all love your guns and your privilege of owning them, would you really risk all that to prove a point? Telling them to leave would have solved it and it is perfectly legal!

[airbornedeerhunter]

What would you say if I (a stranger) "bee lined it" to your fridge for a beer.

I'd tell you that the bottle opener is in the top drawer next to the steak knives.

[Talking moose]

Pretty heated debates going on here. If I may segue for a minute- listen, if you are victim of trespassers there is a right way and wrong way to deal with it. I have never trespassed in my adult life and all the property's I access I have the express consent of the owners to do so.

For all those advocating for the use of force or the possession of a firearm while exhibiting that force against an individual, I can guarantee you that you have never had to deal with the criminal court system, the RCMP or the Canadian Firearms Center. As someone who has ( a long time ago) I can guarantee you that you would regret your actions if you did what he did.

You would be arrested, you would be charged, you would be released on conditions, you would have your PAL/POL/RPAL "frozen" pending disposition of the case, you would get a lawyer, you would spend anywhere from a few thousand to upwards of ten grand in lawyer fees, you could lose your firearms for an indefinite or pre-determined period of time, once either the case was disposed of by a not guilty finding or the period of time had passed that you could not be in possession of firearms it would take several more months for the CFC to re-activate your PAL so you could either pick up the guns from the RCMP or legally be in possession of one at all.

No one is arguing that the sledders were right or that the owner was frustrated and rightfully PO'd at the situation but assault and assault while in possession of a weapon are black and white under the CC of Canada.

If you all love your guns and your privilege of owning them, would you really risk all that to prove a point? Telling them to leave would have solved it and it is perfectly legal!

Yup. That's the smart thing to do.

[huntwat]

Pretty heated debates going on here. If I may segue for a minute- listen, if you are victim of trespassers there is a right way and wrong way to deal with it. I have never trespassed in my adult life and all the property's I access I have the express consent of the owners to do so.

For all those advocating for the use of force or the possession of a firearm while exhibiting that force against an individual, I can guarantee you that you have never had to deal with the criminal court system, the RCMP or the Canadian Firearms Center. As someone who has ( a long time ago) I can guarantee you that you would regret your actions if you did what he did.

You would be arrested, you would be charged, you would be released on conditions, you would have your PAL/POL/RPAL "frozen" pending disposition of the case, you would get a lawyer, you would spend anywhere from a few thousand to upwards of ten grand in lawyer fees, you could lose your firearms for an indefinite or pre-determined period of time, once either the case was disposed of by a not guilty finding or the period of time had passed that you could not be in possession of firearms it would take several more months for the CFC to re-activate your PAL so you could either pick up the guns from the RCMP or legally be in possession of one at all.

No one is arguing that the sledders were right or that the owner was frustrated and rightfully PO'd at the situation but assault and assault while in possession of a weapon are black and white under the CC of Canada.

If you all love your guns and your privilege of owning them, would you really risk all that to prove a point? Telling them to leave would have solved it and it is perfectly legal!

You get it!!!!

[expmler]

Comparing your hay field to a persons home? Really? There's a reason why people getting caught in other people's homes arnt charged with trespassing....;) both are wrong though, one just more than the other

He never said the fridge was in his home, maybe it is in a detached garage.

[expmler]

Pretty heated debates going on here. If I may segue for a minute- listen, if you are victim of trespassers there is a right way and wrong way to deal with it. I have never trespassed in my adult life and all the property's I access I have the express consent of the owners to do so.

For all those advocating for the use of force or the possession of a firearm while exhibiting that force against an individual, I can guarantee you that you have never had to deal with the criminal court system, the RCMP or the Canadian Firearms Center. As someone who has ( a long time ago) I can guarantee you that you would regret your actions if you did what he did.

You would be arrested, you would be charged, you would be released on conditions, you would have your PAL/POL/RPAL "frozen" pending disposition of the case, you would get a lawyer, you would spend anywhere from a few thousand to upwards of ten grand in lawyer fees, you could lose your firearms for an indefinite or pre-determined period of time, once either the case was disposed of by a not guilty finding or the period of time had passed that you could not be in possession of firearms it would take several more months for the CFC to re-activate your PAL so you could either pick up the guns from the RCMP or legally be in possession of one at all.

No one is arguing that the sledders were right or that the owner was frustrated and rightfully PO'd at the situation but assault and assault while in possession of a weapon are black and white under the CC of Canada.

If you all love your guns and your privilege of owning them, would you really risk all that to prove a point? Telling them to leave would have solved it and it is perfectly legal!

Sure, leave your gun at home go and confront two sledders who already have shown no respect for you or the law. Then when they put you in the hospital you can take comfort in the fact that you did the lawful thing while you recover.

Or better yet, just stay in your house and let them do what they want.

At least the farmer stood up and accepted the consequences of his actions that day. Unlike the two trespassing douche bags who played victim in the media.