How alberta squandered a decade of high energy prices

[Weedy1]

Fumbling the Alberta Advantage - Fraser Institute Report

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/publications/fumbling-the-alberta-advantage.pdf

[Ricktye]

Yes, and now without even an apology from the PC's, they want us to give them more money to squander!

I suppose they believe we're sheep..

A better idea would be for them to tell us how they, the PC Party of Alberta, plan to pay back some of the money they wasted; then I'd be willing to help the province. 3 months of low oil prices mean a horrific financial crisis after years of immense income?? Come on people, speak up!


Fumbling the Alberta Advantage - Fraser Institute Report

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/publications/fumbling-the-alberta-advantage.pdf

[Dacotensis]

I've heard that Alberta has some of the highest paid teachers and nurses in the country.
I'm sure some nurses are worth it, and others not.

What's a govt to do when a union holds the public ransom?

Too much greed going on because "I'm worth it" attitudes.

Meanwhile, teachers no longer have to do noon hour supervision.
The parent gets to pay the school so they hire that job out.
Schools encourage class party time for Valentine's Day stuff and on it goes.
Oh, then there are the 10 days off coming up at the end of March.
Pd days that get tacked onto an already long weekend....
Sorry, but no teacher should be getting a payday North of $70k.

Let's face it,
It's the people's fault that this province is so damned expensive to live in.
Aside from deregulation and a few snafus like that.
Mostly this is your neighbours fault for wanting a new downtown arena, and more and more and more.
How many people will enjoy a new art gallery in downtown edmonton?
A new museum? Why?
Govt is constantly hiring consultants.
What are the elected officials and administration doing in their job position of they can't call the shots without hiring a "consultant" ?

I could go on and on about public waste of financial resources.
But I blame mostly my fellow albertans for wanting so much.

No second year welder shouldnt be getting paid $50 an hour out on the line.

Spending and the cost of living is out of control.

Retailers charge what they do, because we are willing to pay for it.
Dealerships charge what they do for the new 1 ton, because some fool will pay for it.
Commodities go down but the price of copper tube at the hardware store never drops? What a pile we are being fed.

Time to go back to a Mac and cheese diet across the province for a few years.
Hit the reset button.

And my house can drop in value by 30% as well.
They all can as far as Im concerned.

I'm all for slowing the growth in this province.
Maybe people will move out of the province for 10 years.
We won't need new schools, hospitals, roads. Infrastructure.
Weak businesses can fold, or they can all realign their expected income.
A little competition for consumer dollars might be ok.
Or they can take on the Target business plan.


No doubt, finances have been squandered in this province.
But mostly there have been unrealistic expectations placed on govt by the people. Your people.

I'm feeling light headed. Need to eat....
Mac and cheese it is.

[Redfrog]

Yes, and now without even an apology from the PC's, they want us to give them more money to squander!

I suppose they believe we're sheep..

A better idea would be for them to tell us how they, the PC Party of Alberta, plan to pay back some of the money they wasted; then I'd be willing to help the province. 3 months of low oil prices mean a horrific financial crisis after years of immense income?? Come on people, speak up!

Have you read some of the posts on this sight? We are hunters and supposedly because of that are smarter than the average bear, and yet I read posts that say we do need higher taxes. Yes the gov't has screwed us, but there is no such thing as bad sex.:thinking-006:

If you had a company with employees who performed like these politicians do, You fire 95% of them and the other 5% would be on probation.:angry3:




".Retailers charge what they do, because we are willing to pay for it.
Dealerships charge what they do for the new 1 ton, because some fool will pay for it.
Commodities go down but the price of copper tube at the hardware store never drops? What a pile we are being fed."


The cost of groceries has gone up more than 25 % in the last year in some cases. I'll bet the wages of the employees have not gone up. Service has not improved. I know I get paid the same for bagging my groceries as I did last year. Zip.Some of the stores even expect you to do your own checkout. If the scanner screws up I doubt they will pay for your wasted time.

I have no issue with some higher prices for groceries. Some are justified. But when fuel prices were high retailers including Canada Post had a fuel surcharge. Now that fuel prices have dropped, has anyone seen a fuel 'rebate' on their invoices?

[Ithaca Dog]

Most ignorant statement of the year. According to this our youth is not worth investing in and we should have some stay at home moms come in and babysit the provinces children instead of educating the.

Just wow.


[QUOTE=Dacotensis;2743528]I've heard that Alberta has some of the highest paid teachers and nurses in the country.
I'm sure some nurses are worth it, and others not.

What's a govt to do when a union holds the public ransom?

Too much greed going on because "I'm worth it" attitudes.

Meanwhile, teachers no longer have to do noon hour supervision.
The parent gets to pay the school so they hire that job out.

Not true.


Schools encourage class party time for Valentine's Day stuff and on it goes.
Oh, then there are the 10 days off coming up at the end of March.
Pd days that get tacked onto an already long weekend....
Sorry, but no teacher should be getting a payday North of $70k.

If you look at the paid vacation days given in other careers teacher days off are similar or less without the choice of when to take them.

Looking at oilfield breakup days off where workers apply for unemployment we see similar days off.

If you are unhappy about the career you chose it's never to late to visit the U of A and obtain one of these overpaid easy as pie jobs.

Most teachers find another occupation after five years because of the stress and difficultly of the assignment.

I've said my piece I won't respond again. I do agree that the province has squandered a decade of revenue and a change in leadership would be best.

[Rockman]

Educators should be very highly paid. The reasoning for that is profound and has long-lasting effects on a country's well-being and a lot more. Now, with that high job needs to come a lot of accountability. The results in the form of a quality education have to be WORTH it.

As to oil $$... yeah, sad we didn't do as Norway and use/save it wisely. Very sad

[riden]

Educators should be very highly paid. The reasoning for that is profound and has long-lasting effects on a country's well-being and a lot more. Now, with that high job needs to come a lot of accountability. The results in the form of a quality education have to be WORTH it.

As to oil $$... yeah, sad we didn't do as Norway and use/save it wisely. Very sad

Norway did it with a really high taxation rate though. It is one of the highest taxed countries in the world.

I remember reading many Norwegians actually stock up on meat and cheese across the border to avoid the high tax.

[The Cook]

Norway did it with a really high taxation rate though. It is one of the highest taxed countries in the world.

I remember reading many Norwegians actually stock up on meat and cheese across the border to avoid the high tax.

I'd be all for higher taxes if the pigs at the trough didn't squander the money. Put it into badly needed infrastructure, education, medical, defence etc etc, but I guess I'm just dreaming of utopia. Oh yea while I'm ranting, maybe we can slag the Union members a little more, wouldn't want people making a living wage while taking food from the mouths of the oil barons and politicians children.

[Redfrog]

I'd be all for higher taxes if the pigs at the trough didn't squander the money. Put it into badly needed infrastructure, education, medical, defence etc etc, but I guess I'm just dreaming of utopia. Oh yea while I'm ranting, maybe we can slag the Union members a little more, wouldn't want people making a living wage while taking food from the mouths of the oil barons and politicians children.

Maybe check out how the unions have faired in Windsor Onterrible.:thinking-006:

Unions protecting the jobs of the working class, with money from taxpayers funded gov't bailouts.

Unions have done as much damage to the working stiff as they have helped.

It is easy to write checks on someone else's accounts.

I'm beginning to think whining is a required course for teachers. Here's a surprise fact. Not all teachers are created equal. Now if we could just separate the wheat from the chaff. Wait , we can't do that.....There's a union of entitlement.:snapoutofit:

[The Cook]

As you can guess, I work in a union enviroment, out of a hundred hourly(union) we have maybe 5 people who are complete wastes of skin, it pains me to have to stand up for these people but they get equal representation. The bottom line is the company hired them in the first place after a 90 day probation (says a lot for the managers who hired them). When I was working in the construction industry, if you still had a job after morning coffee break on day one you were pretty much there for the duration.

[CanuckShooter]

I'd be all for higher taxes if the pigs at the trough didn't squander the money. Put it into badly needed infrastructure, education, medical, defence etc etc, but I guess I'm just dreaming of utopia. Oh yea while I'm ranting, maybe we can slag the Union members a little more, wouldn't want people making a living wage while taking food from the mouths of the oil barons and politicians children.

The problem in Alberta is they lowered corporate taxes way too far, it's not sustainable. When these big corporations make excessive profits the majority of that money goes across borders and off shore. When working people collect a pay check it goes to food, clothes, dinners out...and makes our economy go around and around.

It's the height of ignorance to be wishing the wages of working people would go down as that effects the strength of the entire domestic economy. Does anyone seriously think things would be better if we all worked for peanuts like they do in Tiawan or Bangladesh?

[huntinfishincampin]

As usual someone is so ignorant to think that Teachers and Nurses are the ones who should be blamed for our provinces lack of forethought.
As someone said above, if you think those jobs are not worth the pay they get then go ahead and get your degree and go see for yourself.
The blame is solely on the government. We are in a terrible state right now where the public has very little to chose from when an election is held. I know that Mr. Prentice has very quickly learned the job of spin doctor as there are Albertans now thinking that increasing taxes and health care premiums are the way to solve this.
Get rid of heavy weighted administrator departments in all of our government and you would sure see a whole lot of money saved.

HFC

[The Cook]

The problem in Alberta is they lowered corporate taxes way too far, it's not sustainable. When these big corporations make excessive profits the majority of that money goes across borders and off shore. When working people collect a pay check it goes to food, clothes, dinners out...and makes our economy go around and around.

It's the height of ignorance to be wishing the wages of working people would go down as that effects the strength of the entire domestic economy. Does anyone seriously think things would be better if we all worked for peanuts like they do in Tiawan or Bangladesh?

X2

[Redfrog]

As you can guess, I work in a union enviroment, out of a hundred hourly(union) we have maybe 5 people who are complete wastes of skin, it pains me to have to stand up for these people but they get equal representation. The bottom line is the company hired them in the first place after a 90 day probation (says a lot for the managers who hired them). When I was working in the construction industry, if you still had a job after morning coffee break on day one you were pretty much there for the duration.

As it always was it shall always be.

You know it's wrong and yet you support these guys in keeping their job. Could be one of the things wrong with unions.

As I said, not all that unions do is bad, but there needs to be some balance.
And I do know what I'm talking about. I was a Teamsters shop steward.

[Sloughsharkjigger]

Raising corporate tax is easier said than done. The beauty of capitalism is corporations can just transfer the rise in tax to the consumer.

May not be a big deal for luxury item producers as most would just stop buying the product but what would happen if each charted bank & insurance company was forced to cough up an extra billion every year?

[The Cook]

As it always was it shall always be.

You know it's wrong and yet you support these guys in keeping their job. Could be one of the things wrong with unions.

As I said, not all that unions do is bad, but there needs to be some balance.
And I do know what I'm talking about. I was a Teamsters shop steward.

Redfrog: I agree. I've always been a believer that unions should police themselves. It's kinda hard to do other than ostricizing the ones that work harder to get out of work than actually doing the job but in these sensitive new age touchy feely times a guy has to be careful because it's the guy who actually works that will end up on the carpet in the HR office( believe me I've been there)

[rugatika]

Most teachers find another occupation after five years because of the stress and difficultly of the assignment. .

Not trying to start a violent argument or anything, but I have a few friends that are married to teachers, and a few friends of friends that are married to teachers, and a couple aunts that are teachers. One curious thing I noticed was that many of them would teach for say 5 years or so, and during that time they would get married. Next thing you know they are pregnant.

I'm not sure if teachers get paid mat leave or what is outlined in their contracts or how that works exactly. Might have something to do with the exodus after 5 years as opposed to job difficulty. Just throwing that out there. (And a great teacher is worth every penny by the way).

[CanuckShooter]

Raising corporate tax is easier said than done. The beauty of capitalism is corporations can just transfer the rise in tax to the consumer.

May not be a big deal for luxury item producers as most would just stop buying the product but what would happen if each charted bank & insurance company was forced to cough up an extra billion every year?

Profits wouldn't be as large, and they would have to pay less dividends.....

[Redfrog]

Redfrog: I agree. I've always been a believer that unions should police themselves. It's kinda hard to do other than ostricizing the ones that work harder to get out of work than actually doing the job but in these sensitive new age touchy feely times a guy has to be careful because it's the guy who actually works that will end up on the carpet in the HR office( believe me I've been there)

Exactly.:)

[Redfrog]

Profits wouldn't be as large, and they would have to pay less dividends.....

I wonder if they would pass the increased cost on to their customers?:thinking-006:

[CanuckShooter]

I wonder if they would pass the increased cost on to their customers?:thinking-006:

In added user fees, sure if they could. In higher interest rates? Well that would depend on the Bank of Canada rates to a degree. Does anyone actually believe they would give us [the consumer] a better deal before they gave the shareholders a higher dividend? :thinking-006:

[Redfrog]

In added user fees, sure if they could. In higher interest rates? Well that would depend on the Bank of Canada rates to a degree. Does anyone actually believe they would give us [the consumer] a better deal before they gave the shareholders a higher dividend? :thinking-006:

Does anyone actually believe there is more than one of us [consumers] paying the bill?:thinking-006:

Does anyone believe the only was banks make money is through interest ?:thinking-006:

[Dacotensis]

This is not a teacher bashing thread.
Get off your high horse.

Mom taught on a reserve for 20 years for half of what a high end paid teacher in Alberta makes.
Do you honestly think she put in less effort with those kids?
No, she did the job because she had a passion for instruction. For seeing kids learn.
And I guarantee it was tougher there than some teacher in St albert experiences.
No teacher is worth more than $70k and I've worked with about 4000 of them in my last professional life.
But hey, if it's for the children;)
And yes it is true.
As a parent, I am billed for noon hour supervision.
That's a fact jack.
Every parent gets a bill for added on fees for service when your children are in school. I have two bills here so don't call me a liar
The point was, it's too easy to blame govt for squandering billions.
Take a look around at the lifestyle in Alberta.

When you/we have these unions going On strike, it tells me plenty about their entitled attitudes.
As for the nurses,I date one and she works with my sister.
I tell them all the time that a lpn could do their job for $30 an hour vs $47.
Yet they both still like me?:confused0024:


I don't need another post secondary education to tell me that many people have no problem living beyond their means.
(I already have my dream job, and I live below my means)

Fiscal conservatives are almost non existent in my part of Alberta these days.
We will see if the next 18 months help people put a strain on their lifestyle for awhile.
How anyone can support new taxes, increased taxes or any tax is crazy.

How about everyone cuts their budget. Including the over priced teachers.

A change in government leadership?
Who? Who's it going to be?
Seriously I want to hear it.
Don't think that any other political party would do it better here.
A change in leadership would be best?:thinking-006:

Are you talking about Jim or the PC party?
Who's going to step in? And fix this mess?
Rachel? Lol
Some dinosaur that wants all homosexuals to burn in a lake of fire? Sure. That party. Right.

I'm willing to give JP some time.
But hang on, it's going to be tough for awhile for many of us.

Looks like I'll be planting a garden again to cut some costs around here...

I am curious what many would say to JP to give him ideas on how to fix this mess.
Open mic

[schmedlap]

Not trying to start a violent argument or anything, but I have a few friends that are married to teachers, and a few friends of friends that are married to teachers, and a couple aunts that are teachers. One curious thing I noticed was that many of them would teach for say 5 years or so, and during that time they would get married. Next thing you know they are pregnant.

I'm not sure if teachers get paid mat leave or what is outlined in their contracts or how that works exactly. Might have something to do with the exodus after 5 years as opposed to job difficulty. Just throwing that out there. (And a great teacher is worth every penny by the way).
My only brother was a teacher for about 30 years (retired - fat pension), and was for a time the rep for his "local" of his teachers' union. His realistic and honest appreciation of some involved interests (silly things like the standard of actual education of children) other than the main one of mazimizing their own take from the public purse was not appreciated. Nor was his view that the union should not shelter the incompetents from being turfed. He did not last long in that position.
Teachers like to refer to themselves as "professionals", but in their approach to labor and compensation issues they invariably (as a group - I realize they are not all cretins) resist any attempts to reward competence and recognize incompetence. They have very inflated pension entitlements on any comparative basis. They constantly fight against any measures directed at accurately assessing job performance. They work about 9.5 months a year (on an apples to apples comparison to private sector vacation entitlements), but get compensated as if they worked 11. And the ones who are real "professionals" (i.e., confident of their own ability to rise to the top and to have continuing employment at fair compensation via independent contracting) are overtly intimidated from speaking up, or from seeking their own employment arrangements (merit and effort based?) by their dear union brethren.
It is an "unspoken" fact that the B.Ed degree is an easy way to obtain a GPA high enough to qualify for Law School, for example - much easier than other academic undergraduate programs. I know several people who went to that program for that express reason after failing to score high enough elsewhere. So, teachers are not, generally, in any "elite" capacity in terms of educational achievements.
My kids had the normal run of some exceptional, some average, and some very mediocre teachers in their public school experience. My only complaint is and was that the very mediocre ones could not be turfed - I had, over the years, 2 very conscientious Principals admit to me, off the record (don't tell the ATA!, or I will be targeted for their version of excommunication) that they would love to have some measure of merit tied to continued employment.
I do not mind, at all, paying my fair share for a good public educational system. I do mind the ATA constantly propagandizing about how they are concerned with the best interests of the students, simply because they clearly are not. They firmly and invariably resist every valid initiative in this regard. They have become a typical self-serving and dishonest bureaucracy, ....just like the good old AUPE ... another topic(?)

[308 man]

The billions that Stellnut paid into the teachers pension fund because it was
Mismanaged by the union is now one of the highest pension in the province.
The billions would go a long way to keep us out of debt.
I do think Stellnut was the worst the Alberta queen is next.
The cons do not deserve to be elected but who else can we vote for.

[CanuckShooter]

Does anyone actually believe there is more than one of us [consumers] paying the bill?:thinking-006:

Does anyone believe the only was banks make money is through interest ?:thinking-006:

Are you suggesting that the banks restrict their business to Canada and the only 'consumers' they enjoy are us?

Who are the primary consumers of Albertas oil and gas industry? Do you believe that Canadians are the primary source of their income?

The corporations that keep their earnings in your community, those are the ones you want to give tax breaks. Not the large multi nationals, some of which are foreign owned, so they can use the largess of your government tax breaks to invest in other countries or distribute to foreign shareholders. :thinking-006:

[CanuckShooter]

The billions that Stellnut paid into the teachers pension fund because it was
Mismanaged by the union is now one of the highest pension in the province.
The billions would go a long way to keep us out of debt.
I do think Stellnut was the worst the Alberta queen is next.
The cons do not deserve to be elected but who else can we vote for.

The same could be said of the funds in our national CPP. :thinking-006: Just imagine how plundering that would help reduce our national debt.

[Winch101]

Jimmy has about as much chance fixing the ills as there is in
A six fish limit in southern reservoirs . Four years from the PC s
Next reelection , Manitoba will look like a good deal .

You know the old saying " Those that can't , teach . "
For people who make 50 K a yr. min , and get 3 mo. Holidays
Min. A year ......there sure is a lot of Union whining dressed up as
Concern for students welfare . In my generation and the previous
7 teachers . All retired big pensions , still whining . I don't know about teachers getting knocked up , but I do know they are the tightest humans
on the planet .
As far as government incompetence , think about this ,Ralph Klein was the best premier out out of last five . You know why he was tops , cause Homer
Simpson isn't a real person .

I am so amazed how upset people get when you point out something they
Already knew . If you been here all your life , you been had , bent over
The proverbial barrel . This is one of the few prairie provinces that hasn't lined it's prisons with Conservative MLA s .
You knew Redall would walk . In China caned , hard labour ,than hung
Not to mention a severe reprimand .
They have to insult everybody here who makes less than 100 k
A year ,and only then will a change come .

[From The Hip]

As usual someone is so ignorant to think that Teachers and Nurses are the ones who should be blamed for our provinces lack of forethought.
As someone said above, if you think those jobs are not worth the pay they get then go ahead and get your degree and go see for yourself.
The blame is solely on the government. We are in a terrible state right now where the public has very little to chose from when an election is held. I know that Mr. Prentice has very quickly learned the job of spin doctor as there are Albertans now thinking that increasing taxes and health care premiums are the way to solve this.
Get rid of heavy weighted administrator departments in all of our government and you would sure see a whole lot of money saved.
HFC

To put it simply per the BOLD sentence I highlighted...TRIM THE FAT.

Yes the Provincial union employees that are front line need to take a hair cut but the fat needs to be trimmed above them as we have far too many pigs at the trough.....I saw a limited sunshine list of pencil pushers last week and some "manager" had an "executive assistant" who was making $107,000 a year plus benefits and those "benefits" include stuff like travel allowances and expense accounts which are abused.

Straight up the unions have to suck it up and take a haircut but more importantly the Alberta Government has to trim the corpulent overpaid pencil pushers.1 manager for every 3 workers is a total waste of money.

FTH

[bobalong]

As usual someone is so ignorant to think that Teachers and Nurses are the ones who should be blamed for our provinces lack of forethought.
As someone said above, if you think those jobs are not worth the pay they get then go ahead and get your degree and go see for yourself.
The blame is solely on the government. We are in a terrible state right now where the public has very little to chose from when an election is held. I know that Mr. Prentice has very quickly learned the job of spin doctor as there are Albertans now thinking that increasing taxes and health care premiums are the way to solve this.
Get rid of heavy weighted administrator departments in all of our government and you would sure see a whole lot of money saved.

HFC

I agree, probably the most ignorant post I have seen a loooooooooong time, at least since fishgunner got punted.

PC followers are sheep, and that disgusting post proves it, when ever the government screws up, which the PC have done constantly for the past ten years, do they own up.......no they blame the working stiffs. It is the PC way, and that of their sheep followers.

Every time I think I have seen the most ignorant post ever on this site...........there is always one that clearly moves to the top of the list....and blaming the working people of Alberta for our deficit, will probably never be topped as being the most IGNORANT.:angry3:

[JohninAB]

I agree, probably the most ignorant post I have seen a loooooooooong time, at least since fishgunner got punted.

PC followers are sheep, and that disgusting post proves it, when ever the government screws up, which the PC have done constantly for the past ten years, do they own up.......no they blame the working stiffs. It is the PC way, and that of their sheep followers.

Every time I think I have seen the most ignorant post ever on this site...........there is always one that clearly moves to the top of the list....and blaming the working people of Alberta for our deficit, will probably never be topped as being the most IGNORANT.:angry3:

X2