How to negotiate/ comunicate with management

[flint guy]

Recently being laid off, I now have to negotiate any possibility of return. I have a new baby, recent first home purchase and no support system eg family or friends in alberta. I am not too proud to tuck my tail between my legs and go back, before I exhaust my savings looking for new work in a failing market.

Heres the scoop. Small buisness, 2 welders (one was me), one labourer, one shipper reciever and three salesmen plus a secretary. The owner is wealthy and doesnt need to work, he will be the one I negotiate with. His friend, also wealthy and does not need to work is in command. They have all the undesirable traits of bad management eg procrastinates, poor reactive decisions never proactive,no knowledge of work or equipment and is unwilling to listen to those who do as its more important to be right and authorative than to get the task finished efficiently. Obviously we but heads, and the tension in the shop surrounding him is high, this is a shared opinion not just my ranting. The other salesman runs the show almost entirely, but is a spineless bag licker. Unfortunately I have to stand my ground to protect my welding ticket when asked to work outside of it, And no boss likes to hear they are wrong when they sold a product they cannot deliver, even if you sugar coat it. I was laid off not because they couldnt afford my wage, but because i don't get along with the owners friend. Its a revolving door of drunks, and incompetents for labour, and welders supervise/train and qc all work, so management is quite out of touch as to what and how things happen to get work out the door.

Its a good job that provided a good living even if the time commitment was high. I would like to keep it despite the bad charecter in charge. as There is always something or somebody at any job, so im not willing to give up yet, just dont know how to approach telling a man his friend is an ass, and his trust and decision making is impared by this man he thinks so highly of. Its seems un sustainable to me to have one Welder/fitter a labourer, and shipper in a manufacturing shop to support wages (4 blue collar at 400k and 3 blue collar at 230k). There is no outside sales, the phone rings they sell our product, wages are pretty unrealistic for the office staff and all I hear is how the welders overtime killed all profits, never lack of staff down time due to no maintenance etc. as its easier to discredit others than to fess up to your own mistakes.,

Ao members have stepped up and done more for me than I can list, even now with my current predicament. I only hope I can repay the favours I ask someday. May I ask one more time for some advice on how to live a life where I can be confident to say Im a level headed an admirable man.

How do I convey my point without bashing the mans friend, as there is no tip toe solution to the problem. They all revolve around one man?
Should I just walk, is this bs and politics everywhere? Can I do better? I dont know as I dont get out much.
I feel they have been in charge so long they have never been told no, and cannot imagine a simple welder having anything meaningfull to say. Can you get through to these people?

[Dewey Cox]

You have nothing but contempt for the management, and were laid off for not getting along with the owners.
Why do you want to go back so bad?
Life is too short.
Find another gig.
I think you'll be happier.

[hillbillyreefer]

I'd say, log onto AO, and hack on the people that write your checks in an open Internet forum. That's got to be the best way to keep your job, probably even get you a raise and promotion.

Have you ever seen a 60w bulb in a power blackout?

[Dick284]

You can only play the cards you have in your hand.
Right now you aren't being dealt any, heck you aren't even at the table.

Lick your wounds, and move on.

[Sushi]

They dumped you. It's over. Forget the drama. Move on.

[Redfrog]

Sounds like the perfect job.

If you made a list of things that you want from a job, how many of those things you listed would be on the list. Ever heard of a F..... list? It rhymes with Bucket.

Time to move on my friend.

Just let it go. They are just not into you.

[flint guy]

Guess I needed to hear it. Thanks. Point taken. I should have included the part about the owner being a decent guy in most respects as far as negotiating as is salesman 3, he just wont stand up for anything. Im still disgruntled, was certianly upset and speaking from that influence. My comunication issues are certianly something im trying to work on After re reading i see it was only the snivling part. The lay off is for 60 days temporary, I should have added they continued benifits, its seems they want me back. Wasnt sure how to interperet this had nobody with experience to ask. Everything less the one boss man is great or very easy to deal with.

Will move on

[rugatika]

Use the 60 days to look for work. If you got a family to provide for, I wouldn't be burning bridges right now.

[flint guy]

Kinda what i was sorting out rugatika. The bad mouthing in retrospect was not the way to comunicate my point. Debated swallowing pride or moving on. leaving i burn a bridge, if i stick it out, 60 days hurts, might have to get on the ei train. Maybe they just want me gone, nobody wants to say. Weird market in alberta and i have never been in this position as i was always treated well where i went, was treated well here too in many ways. Seems a shame to give up due to one *****, who through civil discusion should be able to be mediated.

[Cement Bench]

OK I am a retired lawyer (please do not hold that against me), I worked for Gregg Distributors for 10 years before shuting it down for health reasons,

I have seen a bunch of lawsuits over the years and a lot of wrongfull dismissal cases where the dismissed was an idiot and perhaps so for the management,

YOU MY FRIEND TAKE THE CAKE (just kidding for you sensitive types)

you are the following:

1. quite well spoken to say the least

2. very cogent in your thoughts

3. seem to have your head on straight

4. explain very well the inadequacies of the job you are now in

5. think out things and manage to curb your thoughts to save your job

6. seem to have a handle on wages and profit for a business


please take this the way it is intended

There are much better companies to work for and you will move up the ladder if the way you have descibed is in your own words and not that of a resume writer

there are better days and jobs ahead for you

most companies would do well to hire you

you my friend deserve better and in this environment use the 60 days to pound the pavement and (toungue in cheek) use this thread to show the new employer your brains,

keep serching, there is a better career path out there for you even in todays bumpy road

take care and come back in a year to revisit this thread and tell us how much better your life is,

others would be so lucky to have your brains, me included

take care and it will work out for you and your family

with the greatest of respect

Cement Bench

[Dacotensis]

Good advice from cb.

But why not buy the owners out?
Set up shop and have guys working for you instead?

No way could I work in an environment that you describe.
And yes I understand your immediate financial situation.
Been there in 2008.
But man did things ever improve after the initial 5 minutes of mourning.

[wildside2014]

I find it ironic that you are critiquing guys that apparently dont have to work. Have you asked yourself why they are successful? Maybe they do know how to operate the business?

[flint guy]

I certainly have asked why? In fact it's this decision based on my economic understanding that I'm trying to comprehend.

[justsomeguy]

Don't take this the wrong way but here is how I interp your story.

You're a good welder but seen as a poor employee due to you don't get along with some co workers. The fact it was the bosses friend means it does not matter if it's your fault or not.....the owner will default to his friend unless his company is at risk.

Given how there are/soon to be a flood of guys in the market who could do your job and they gave you a temp with benefits says they are hoping you get your head on straight and learn to play nice so they'll bring you back, otherwise they would have made a clean break. If you go back and the same conflicts continue I can guarantee you won't be around long.

Time to make a decision. Reality of life is in most jobs you have to deal with guys who are *****s, but the reality is life is not fair. If you have conflict with this guy and you can't make it work I'd say chances are very high you're going to run into a similar situation at your next job.....the world is full of *****s, and they tend to rise the food chain.

[Dog_River]

You should be nervous none of the management are AO members and see this thread. I am sure they would revoke the kind 60 day layoff plus benefits they are paying you. I don't think bashing the management on a public forum is that smart a move.

I think you should file for UI, pound the pavement for another job and learn from the experience. Sometimes the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. I have on many occasions over the years had to get rid of an employee because of a bad attitude only to have them call back a few months later begging for their job back professing that they made a huge mistake being asked to leave or leaving on their own accord. I have come to learn that everything in life is in a cycle, even being happy at work. Folks need to learn to live through the down cycles instead of making a bad choice. People who have had long careers and marriages have learned this skill. Not everyone is built like this including me but it is my observation. As I get older I am getting better at this.

I am management by the way.

Good luck, Dog_River

[Redfrog]

If you do look for a different job, here's a tip. Don't tell your new potential employer you left your last job because the boss was an arse and an idiot.

When I heard that from job applicants, the interview was over in a practical sense..

[CanuckShooter]

If you do look for a different job, here's a tip. Don't tell your new potential employer you left your last job because the boss was an arse and an idiot.

When I heard that from job applicants, the interview was over in a practical sense..

Should he lie....not a good way to start a trusting relationship. :thinking-006:

[flint guy]

Lie no, but explain we couldn't see eye to eye and why, if it comes up. All that was said here has been addressed face to face, in a more civilized and non judgemental or finger pointing way. I had a sit down with each individual and addressed my concerns. I always am clear about where I stand, and I was assured we came to an agreement a year ago. Hard to read, but I have decided its a grudge held by a man who is in favour with the big boss. That's it, so time to move on. Preference is to closed door discussions and to avoid any communication. I always feel there is some but little info that needs to be kept from employees, and usually something is to hide when everything is kept secret. If they don't like work, personality, or conduct say so.
I appreciate the advice, and not being labeled a drama queen. I'm trying to improve my PR skills but you need people from a different view to do that. People who manage people have a lot to say. I understand fully managing a business, managing production, and managing personalities are different skills. I didn't want to polarize my position and say I'm right, they are all wrong. I'll have another meeting before I go with the owner to reiterate my thoughts, and try to leave on good terms, not storm off like a douche.

[HyperMOA]

Debated swallowing pride or moving on. leaving i burn a bridge, if i stick it out, 60 days hurts, might have to get on the ei train.

I disagree with you here. If your employer laid you off, even for 60 days, he has to understand you may not be available to return after 60 days. There is no way that they can construe that as a burnt bridge. If they do, you are better off being gone. Good luck to you. I also think that you coming online and being anonymous about your employer and explaining the situation isn't as terrible as others make it out to be. You haven't besmirched anyone's reputation.

[3blade]

I agree with cement bench.

Been in a very similar situation twice myself. Theres always going to be stupid at every job. The line I drew is when they attempted to put my professional qualifications at risk. Nope, see ya. It made life hard for a while, but I got through it and now am in a position I will likely keep for many years. You will get there.

the line for the interview is something like: "I decided I wanted a change, and a better opportunity to advance my career". keep it positive.

Best of luck.

[Pixel Shooter]

x2 on 3blade, perfect way to say it. Not that you didn't see eye to eye. Redfrog is on the spot on. People don't leave organizations they leave leaders. or lack there of, take this as an opportunity per CB comments

[dmac]

Usually wealthy and bad management do not go together.

Use the time to look for something else. Good luck.

[dumoulin]

Don't stir the pot, get a good reference letter and move on.

[Sundancefisher]

Use the 60 days to look for work. If you got a family to provide for, I wouldn't be burning bridges right now.

Life lesson for all here.

Don't get in involved in office politics. Don't show open dislike of others at work. Smile and get the work done the best you can. Don't sweat the small problems as they are everywhere. If a big problems comes like you hate the work just smile and start looking for another job.

When you leave...Shake everyone's hand and thank the bosses for a great experience. Express regret you are leaving and that you only hope you can get new experience and work for them again someday.

It is a small world. Don't burn bridges b

[justsomeguy]

Life lesson for all here.

Don't get in involved in office politics. Don't show open dislike of others at work. Smile and get the work done the best you can. Don't sweat the small problems as they are everywhere. If a big problems comes like you hate the work just smile and start looking for another job.

When you leave...Shake everyone's hand and thank the bosses for a great experience. Express regret you are leaving and that you only hope you can get new experience and work for them again someday.

It is a small world. Don't burn bridges b

I think this thread can be closed now. After this there is nothing else to say.

[petew]

You are a welder, welders get laid off, it is part of the trade. Move on and get a new gig.