Shooting accident at Homestead Range

[sprbloggins]

Anyone hear about this? Just heading out and my wife just informed me....

[fatboyz]

Looks like he was shooting steel at 25m and a ricochet hit his buddy in the neck. Story says he is in serious condition.

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/victim-suffers-gunshot-to-the-neck-following-ricochet-at-homestead-shooting-range-1.2247868

[sillyak]

I was witness to a guy shooting himself in the thigh with a 12 Gauge in May 2011. Wife helped with first aid and I opened the gate to the upper range so the firefighters could prep the site for STARS.

With that many regards at the public range it's only a matter of time.

[elkhunter11]

From the link posted;

A high-powered rifle was fired at a metal plate approximately 25 metres away


And some people wonder why we don't allow shooters to put up their own steel plates on our range.:rolleye2:

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Article doesn't say, but I assume this was the public range.

ARG

[HalfBreed]

How unfortunate for his buddy, that's pretty darn close to be dropping plates.

[denpacc]

Is there a point to shoot at metal plates? I don't get it, or is it just me? Hope the guy recovers and chalks it up to a major lesson.

[zero]

no other information on gun/cal/ammo used yet? probably cheap norinco steelcore probably and an sks :angry3:

[Fredo]

Shooting plates that close is stupid, and accidents are stupid by essence.

Stupid attracts stupidity.

It's sad for the guy that got injured. Shooter should have his/her licence revoked. We don't need stupid gun owners.

[huntwat]

Shooting plates that close is stupid, and accidents are stupid by essence.

Stupid attracts stupidity.

It's sad for the guy that got injured. Shooter should have his/her licence revoked. We don't need stupid gun owners.

Call me ignorant, but with centerfire rifles what would be a "safe" distance to shoot plates.
Not being a smartazz. I shoot metal plates, maybe I shouldn't.

[Lefty-Canuck]

100 yard plus for me....

Any bets it was FMJ ammo that came back and hit the guy....

LC

[Duramaximos]

Anything less than 200 yards and I have some nervousness about bullets bouncing back.

[elkhunter11]

I have taken down a good many steel plates that people have hung up at our range, and some people actually get upset, that we don't allow them to use unauthorized targets. Some of that steel was as close as 25 yards, and people were shooting at them with SKSs when I came along and stopped them. Incidents like this, is why we regulate the types of targets that are allowed on our range. Unfortunately, some people are not smart enough to protect themselves, so we are forced make rules to protect them, and the rest of the members.

[GrandSlam]

Stopped going to that range years ago. Too many morons with SKS's shooting anything around them.

[Selkirk]

Looks like he was shooting steel (with a high-powered rifle) at 25m and a ricochet hit his buddy in the neck. Story says he is in serious condition.

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/victim-suffers-gunshot-to-the-neck-following-ricochet-at-homestead-shooting-range-1.2247868




Ah yes ... more stupidness at the Homestead Range :rolleye2:

Mac

[James Henry]

I have seen a lot of crazy stuff at Homestead, it was just a matter of time.
I wouldn't want to be around anybody shooting steel within 250yds after seeing the video of the guy shooting the 50cal and having his ear protection fly off from a ricochet. Some say the video is fake, but yikes:sign0068:

[Icon]

A few years back at Homestead, I witnessed a guy place a head sized rock at 25 yards and then take aim with his semi-auto. The rest of us on the line freaked out and shamed the guy so much that he left. Lots of inexperienced shooters out there without supervision. That incident was the last time I went out there!

[Mountain Guy]

Anything less than 200 yards and I have some nervousness about bullets bouncing back.

Is this really possible?
I remember that u tube video of a bullet coming back and knocking the shooters hat off.
I know I'm not a physics expert....so how does a projectile going 2500 ft/sec change direction and come straight back at a high velocity?

[Fredo]

Call me ignorant, but with centerfire rifles what would be a "safe" distance to shoot plates.
Not being a smartazz. I shoot metal plates, maybe I shouldn't.

It's not ignorant to ask questions, what's ignorant is not to actually :)

100 yds min, with an appropriate plate angle for deflection.

[7 REM MAG]

that is why steel targets are hung from chains, usually the directly backward ricochet is caused by a solid plate

[Fredo]

Is this really possible?
I remember that u tube video of a bullet coming back and knocking the shooters hat off.
I know I'm not a physics expert....so how does a projectile going 2500 ft/sec change direction and come straight back at a high velocity?

2 weeks ago I was plinking the 200 yds gong with a .308 at the local range.
Range field was covered in fresh, immaculate snow that got crusty after the previous night frost.
There was absolutely no tracks in the snow, I was the first person to come for the past 4 days according to the registry book - shooting at -15 is not popular I guess but I had to test a load!

Once I was done with .308, I picked another rifle and went to the 100 yds berm to stick a target.

On my way to the berm, I noticed shiny pieces of copper at about 50 yds from my shooting position. It was remains of my .308 bullets...
They traveled back around 150 yds.

[Big Sky]

This is how I hang a plate to get a downward angle. I actually use 3 nuts before the chain.

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/BigSkyler/9058cfca-8913-456a-876e-f0cc878cd90f_zps4dd6d8c7.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/BigSkyler/media/9058cfca-8913-456a-876e-f0cc878cd90f_zps4dd6d8c7.jpg.html)

[bat119]

A guy I know shot a steel plate at 100 yards with a 338 win his buddy beside him got hit with the bullet jacket after it separated from the lead. Luckily He wasn't hurt except for a red mark on his stomach. Buddy still has the copper jacket in his shooting box shows to anybody he sees shooting plates.

[CaberTosser]

I've had lead fragments from my own handgun rounds return and hit me in my upper chest right under my chin when shooting at The Shooting Edge indoor range. I agree that targets should be angled downwards so that deflections & ricochets are more likely to go into the earth.

Some people can't learn from the mistakes of others, they insist on making the same ones themselves first.

[7mm12g22lr]

Not a huge surprise ...is it?
It was discussed before.....

[gramps73]

Right or wrong I sure hope the guy pulls through.
Very sad

[Bushleague]

Is there a point to shoot at metal plates? I don't get it, or is it just me? Hope the guy recovers and chalks it up to a major lesson.

The plate can take a lot of shots without needing to be replaced compared to a paper target, and you know right away whether you have hit it or not. When one is shooting from field positions and/ or at long ranges and the goal is simply to hit the target rather than shoot groups, shooting a gong can save you a bunch of walking back and forth. Not sure what the point to shooting a plate at 25 yards is.

[Geezle]

Right or wrong I sure hope the guy pulls through.
Very sad

X2

Avoidable, but that doesn't make it any less unfortunate.

[Gifted Intuitive]

The sport Handgun Silhouette places steel targets 50 metres.

Single shot pistols shooting 7mm-08 and 308 cartridges are often used.

I would estimate hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of rounds have been shot at this distance.

[Lefty-Canuck]

The sport Handgun Silhouette places steel targets 50 metres.

Single shot pistols shooting 7mm-08 and 308 cartridges are often used.

I would estimate hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of rounds have been shot at this distance.

Yes but I doubt they are firing FMJ...also the targets are set up in a fashion that they move or fall down. Without knowing the setup and circumstances of the incident it is clear the setup was in poor fashion...and possibly the choice of ammo was a contributing factor.

LC

[Hat in the Cat]

The sport Handgun Silhouette places steel targets 50 metres.

Single shot pistols shooting 7mm-08 and 308 cartridges are often used.

I would estimate hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of rounds have been shot at this distance.

Big difference in velocity between a .308/7-08 shot from a pistol and a rifle.

[DiabeticKripple]

this is why i will never shoot plates with a jacketed bullet. im a chicken lol.

only plate that gets shot is with my .22

my rifles i use plywood.

[silverdoctor]

Reading this thread, and seeing the intelligent responses that people would NOT shoot steel at such a close range - why not throw some negligence charges at the shooter?

[huntsfurfish]

Reading this thread, and seeing the intelligent responses that people would NOT shoot steel at such a close range - why not throw some negligence charges at the shooter?

Dont really think that is necessary.

Some people just dont know.

[Fredo]

Reading this thread, and seeing the intelligent responses that people would NOT shoot steel at such a close range - why not throw some negligence charges at the shooter?

If you begin to charge people for lack of common sense, courts will be overburden for a few decades.

[phatso]

That place is a circus. I had some idiot shooting my target once..asked him if he minded then he kept doing it?? Had to tell him to knock it off sternly.. Then he smirked and started shooting at someone else's.. Some other idiot was shooting behind the line and got yelled at by someone else. Really is home of the the SKs Rambo crowd.
Not surprised that there is not more accidents there.

[phatso]

Reading this thread, and seeing the intelligent responses that people would NOT shoot steel at such a close range - why not throw some negligence charges at the shooter?

Just be thankful it wasn't your significant other or some child learning to shoot a 22 that ate the ricochet ..

[Albertacoyotecaller]

Proper grade steel, proper distance and proper deflection angle and plates are safe. We have shot thousands of rounds at steel over the course of many weekends with no issues. It's not rocket science but some people can't seem to figure it out it seems.

[Geezle]

If you begin to charge people for lack of common sense, courts will be overburden for a few days.

Nevermind...my reading comprehension sucks :sign0161:

[260 Rem]

It may be fortunate that the rebound hit the shooters partner rather than someone else on the firing line, as there is less potential that damages will be claimed. The more high profile this incident becomes, the more concern it will be to the shooting community. It will also be interesting to see how the investigation will play out ... as that could interfere with Range operations.

[alacringa]

Not 100% sure, but doesn't shooting plate violate the rules of that range? Not that anybody pays attention to those. I haven't been in a long time because of all the clowns. This episode has convinced me never to go back.

[Mountain Adventurer]

I shoot at aluminum plate only, I've seen hickock45 blast at plate at 20 feet several times. Must have been an unlucky gong slapper.My thoughts go out to him and his family and hope he pulls through.:(

[243 wild cat]

100 yard plus for me....

Any bets it was FMJ ammo that came back and hit the guy....

LC

YEP!! I put my loony on FMJ too Lefty. At 20 to 30 yards I have a 300 yards plus put on my steel!! some guys just don't use common sence.

[twofifty]

Proper grade steel, proper distance and proper deflection angle and plates are safe. We have shot thousands of rounds at steel over the course of many weekends with no issues. It's not rocket science but some people can't seem to figure it out it seems.

The above is the correct answer.

Plate angle is crucial. So is plate materials and condition.

Once a plate designed for handgun rounds has been cratered by an idiot with a centrefire rifle, the crater can cause another shot to turn around and come right back at the shooter. Rifle bullet holes can also cause ricochets. So then, plates need to be checked frequently and replaced soon as they are vandalized or otherwise damaged. They can also get dished over several years of absorbing energy, which can bring on ricochets

The legal minimum distance to properly designed and set up (as noted above by Albertacoyotecaller) handgun plates is 10 metres.
In IPSC, 11 metres is the game's minimum distance per the rules. Even so, it sometimes happens that bullet fragments come back to the shooter.

The same holds true for hinged steel targets called poppers. Such targets are frequently set up in IPSC handgun matches, and shot from a minimum 11 metres. The steel is angled in such a way that splatter is directed to the grounds or into side shields. The steel lasts a long time due to only being shot with handguns, and is replaced if any divots or dishing occurs.

It is also very helpful to shoot plates from a bit of an angle rather than standing straight on. Good stage design encourages competitors to engage plates from such off-angles.

[twofifty]

Here are the rules for steel at Ontario's Blue Ridge Sportsman's Club:

¨ Generally speaking metal or other "hard surface" targets are not approved for use. These types of targets have a high probability of causing ricochets and can only be used by qualified shooters, under specific conditions and after the target has met all design criteria specifications. Not approved for "new" shooters.

¨ Steel Plates. Poppers, etc. are restricted targets and may only be used by qualified shooters in the associated discipline. These targets have minimum distance requirements and design criteria that must conform to CFO regulations. They are NOT approved for general use by non-qualified shooters.

[flint guy]

I spent a lot of time shooting steel. Thousands of rounds and witness to many more. Sometimes firing lines with 200+ shooters. Steel of silhouette, gong, and random shapes as well as steel Stands and frames for paper and wood or other target material at distance from 20 yards to 1000m. Rifles shotguns handguns of many calibers and potency, using hunting target hand cast even roundball in pure lead projectiles and shotgun pellets. I have personally been hit more that once, and witnessed several others along with the unmistakable sounds of near miss or overhead ricochetes. I have only witnessed one injury and luckily it was minor, to an eye with no glasses on. Steel can be dangerous even if well designed. As mentioned above wear, change of angle, rigidity can make a good plate suddenly bad. My personal experience was always fragments, some at high speed some you could almost see and catch. Hard ground near steel can cause trouble too. Sometimes a new bullet or caliber reacts differently on a target, Eg don't shoot a heavy centre fire plate with a rim fire.

I hope this was an unfortunate accident, and I hope the guy recovers. Range policy everywhere could change due to an investigation, especially if it becomes fatal. Publicity although educational could also prove to set new precedence for all. Hopefully in the interest of safety and progression, not anti advocates.

[midgetwaiter]

Plate angle is crucial. So is plate materials and condition.

Once a plate designed for handgun rounds has been cratered by an idiot with a centrefire rifle, the crater can cause another shot to turn around and come right back at the shooter. Rifle bullet holes can also cause ricochets. So then, plates need to be checked frequently and replaced soon as they are vandalized or otherwise damaged. They can also get dished over several years of absorbing energy, which can bring on ricochets


The last time I was at the Homestead public range there was a guy shooting a hanging plate at a little less than 100 yards with an SKS. Most shooters would think of that as a safe distance, even with FMJ. This plate however was dented and holed a couple times, the result being that almost every shot was an audible ricochet.

My buddy and I got the hell out of there.

[Skytop B]

a good example, you probably seen it. Guy is lucky to have a head!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokV7HzJhG4

[recce43]

shot at fallen plates lots with 7.62mm at 100m and 200m with fmj when in military . we never had issues

[Lefty-Canuck]

shot at fallen plates lots with 7.62mm at 100m and 200m with fmj when in military . we never had issues

100-200m is different than 25m

LC

[plmnnkoqaz]

I hate to rag on the sks crowd, but most of the guys I've seen at the range are ignorant to the fact that they are shooting steel core ammo. Guys at the gun club meeting go on and on about how steel core ammo is not "designed" to be armour piercing, so it shouldn't be treated as such. Bottom line is that even against ar-500. the steel core is a huge ricochet risk and does way more damage to the plates that FMJ or HP bullets.

[marlin1]

still trying to wrap my head around shooting a target at 25 yards with a rifle

[recce43]

7.62x39 before 1986 is mild steel core after that it is harden steel core still not AP ammo but people have to be aware what they are shooting what there back stop is and that goes for all ammo .and calibres

[EZM]

The bottom line is there simply isn't enough training required or legislated for all these guys going out and buying dangerous toys.

This, with a general lack of common sense creates dangerous recipe for an accident waiting to happen.

[averagejoe]

still trying to wrap my head around shooting a target at 25 yards with a rifle

Normally I would say that he could have been sighting in like a normal person without a bore sighter. Buuut this is a Bubba so I am going to go with he couldn't hit anything past that distance.

[Big Sky]

I can see the lawyers salivating over this one.

Unsafe practices by the shooter(s). Unsupervised range with a reputation for reckless behaviour.

[Masterchief]

This is how I hang a plate to get a downward angle. I actually use 3 nuts before the chain.

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/BigSkyler/9058cfca-8913-456a-876e-f0cc878cd90f_zps4dd6d8c7.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/BigSkyler/media/9058cfca-8913-456a-876e-f0cc878cd90f_zps4dd6d8c7.jpg.html)

Thanks for the pic, I was planning on getting a gong for long range and this is a smart way to get the angle the way you want it

[gitrdun]

Very unfortunate for both parties involved. I simply hope that the victim pulls through with nothing more than a safety lesson. Being that the two fellows were likely friends, there wouldn't be anything to gain by dragging the shooter through more crap. I'm sure he's suffering enough already from his friend being hospitalized.

[Sneeze]

While I have zero insider knowledge of the incident - a high power at a steel plate at 25 yards makes little sense to me. - Regardless of how you control the ricochet angle.

Can you even get plate hard enough to stop a high power round at 25 yards? I am sure you could find some stupid thick unmanageable plate that will stop the bullet, but wouldn't think it would look the same after impact?

My guess it wasn't a ricochet, it was fragments of the steel plate blowing back in their faces after the bullet ripped through the steel.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

While I have zero insider knowledge of the incident - a high power at a steel plate at 25 yards makes little sense to me. - Regardless of how you control the ricochet angle.

Can you even get plate hard enough to stop a high power round at 25 yards? I am sure you could find some stupid thick unmanageable plate that will stop the bullet, but wouldn't think it would look the same after impact?


I have seen all sorts of stuff used as targets out there, hunks of I-beam or angle iron... just because the news story described it as a steel plate, I wouldn't assume it was a proper steel target. Could have been just a hunk of metal that was left on the range.

ARG

[ex811]

I, along with a number of users, were out at the Public Range this morning. No evidence of this sort of an incident occurring there.
Wonder if the incident occurred in one of the 'random' ranges used along Homestead Rd.

[YYC]

Call me ignorant, but with centerfire rifles what would be a "safe" distance to shoot plates.
Not being a smartazz. I shoot metal plates, maybe I shouldn't.

Use AR500 Plate 3/8 to 1/2 inch thick DO NOT USE SOFT STEEL!! Harder steel target will last longer and a harder steel target is safer. Regular steel is too soft, resulting in bullets either punching through the target or making a crater whereupon the bullet bounces back, often with great force. Even thick plates quickly gets holes and craters if they are made of regular steel.

Here area few guidelines from the Web:
25 Yards
.22 LR, 9mm, .380, .32, .40 SW, .45acp

50 Yards
.357 mag, .38 +P, .45 Colt, .44 Spl, .44 mag, 10mm

100 Yards
.22 mag, .223/5.56mm, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, 5.7x28 .308/7.62x54, .30-30, 7.62x39, .243, .45-70, .204 Ruger

200 Yards
.308, .30-06, .270 Win, .22-250

300 Yards
300 Win Mag, .300 Norma, .338, .50 BMG

Shotgun
Shotgun w/ lead bird shot - 15 yards
Shotgun w/ 00 lead buck - 50 yards
Shotgun w/ lead slug - 100 yards



Steel reactive targets: Safety and use
Aug 30, 2003
From The FBI Training Bulletin

There are presently a variety of steel targets on the market allowing a wide range of firearms training techniques. However, many of these targets do not provide adequate protection from bullet splatter (the bullet fragments that are reflected when a target is hit), so accidents can occur. It is important, therefore, that the user know what factors make training on steel targets as safe and effective as possible.

When shooting steel targets, a "splatter zone" appears. This zone is the area in which the great majority of bullet fragments eventually wind up. The total amount of splatter in this zone is primarily dependent on the following four key issues: 1) Angle of deflection, 2) Target hardness, 3) Bullet design and 4) Target placement.

Angle of Deflection

The type and design of a steel target determines the angle of deflection. Testing for angle of deflection is done by shooting a steel plate target surrounded by a plywood box. After shooting numerous rounds, the path of the bullet fragments is assessed by examining the marks left on the plywood. As the bullet shatters on impact, the majority of the fragments spread out at 20-degree angles from the plate surface. This area, which forms thin triangular shapes to the left and right of the target, is referred to as the "splatter zone." It is not a safe place to be as a full 95% of all bullet fragments can end up here. The remaining area, including the shooter, is referred to as the "safety zone," and receives only a small portion of bullet fragments. Although the safety zone is not absolutely safe, with proper protection, normal training can be carried on without undue risk.

Target Hardness

The hardness, or tensile strength, of a target measures the amount of force that can be applied to the steel before deformation or damage occurs. Hardness is most commonly measured by a Brinell number ranging from 150 on the soft side, up to 700 on the hard extreme. While the average target is made of the cheaper steel with a Brinell number of 265, some targets have a Brinell number over 500 and can withstand repeated .308 rounds without deformation or damage. Intuitively, it is apparent that a harder steel target will last longer. More importantly, a harder steel target is actually safer. In repeated testing, hard targets produced very consistent splatter patterns and returned little or no bullet material back to the shooter. Softer targets deformed sooner and often resulted in extremely unpredictable splatter patterns. Specifically, many fragments were larger and traveled in virtually every direction, effectively rendering the safety zone non-existent. It is recommended, therefore, that steel targets be made of the harder steel. Initially they will be more expensive, but, based on longevity and safety, they will be more cost effective in the end.

Bullet Design

A high quality, higher power factored ammunition is essential to reduce splatter. Simply stated, to minimize the size and pattern of splatter, drive the projectile harder. Consequently, a lead bullet with a low velocity is the worst option for steel target training. For safe training, it is recommended that only higher power factored bullets be used. A desirable round to produce consistent splatter is a jacketed hollow-point with a velocity of 1225 fps. Another issue is the "correlation factor." This generally refers to how well a bullet holds together to give controlled expansion and penetration. In the case of steel target training, the best bullet is a frangible style round. The high velocity, frangible design of such bullets creates a predictable shattering effect on impact.

Target Placement


Even with the best targets and bullets, training can be dangerous if targets are placed incorrectly. Metal targets should not be placed parallel to each other with out a barrier between them. Splatter from one target could ricochet off another target (secondary splatter), and return to the shooter. Metal targets that are used in a grouping pattern should be staggered so as not to be in the 20 degree angle of deflection splatter zone of another target. Placing plywood to the sides of each target easily solves both of these problems. Because the wood is soft, it will absorb the splatter and not cause dangerous secondary splatter. The wood will, however, need to be replaced frequently to be an effective barrier. Another cause of secondary splatter can be large rocks or concrete. The best surfaces are made of sand or fine gravel. If concrete is used, it should be covered by wood or pea gravel.
Other Safety Issues

Since splatter can only be minimized and never totally eliminated, proper eye protection must be mandatory on all firing ranges. Eye protection should be OSHA tested and have side protection built in. Long sleeves and hats are optional but recommended. Instructors and observers should stand behind the shooter and obey all safety precautions as well. In short, training on steel targets can be safe if done properly. Buy your targets from a reputable manufacturer, use high velocity, frangible ammunition, place targets correctly, and take proper safety precautions.

Glossary Of Steel Making Terms

Alloying Element
Any metallic element added during the making of steel for the purpose of increasing corrosion resistance, hardness, or strength.

Alloy Steel
An iron-based mixture is considered to be an alloy steel when manganese is greater than 1.65%, silicon over 0.5%, copper above 0.6%, or other minimum quantities of alloying elements such as chromium, nickel, molybdenum, or tungsten are present. An enormous variety of distinct properties can be created for the steel by substituting these elements in the recipe.

Carbon Steel
Steel that has properties made up mostly of the element carbon and which relies on the carbon content for structure. Most of the steel produced in the world is carbon steel.

Gauge
The thickness of sheet steel. Better-quality steel has a consistent gauge to prevent weak spots or deformation.

Hardening
WHAT: Process that increases the hardness of steel, i.e., the degree to which steel will resist cutting, abrasion, penetration, bending, and stretching.
WHY: The increased endurance provided by hardening makes steel suitable for additional applications.

Heat Treatment
WHAT: Altering the properties of steel by subjecting it to a series of temperature changes.
WHY: To increase the hardness, strength, or ductility of steel so that it is suitable for additional applications.

High-Carbon Steel
Steel with more than 0.3% carbon. The more carbon that is dissolved in the iron, the less formable and the tougher the steel becomes. High-carbon steel''s hardness makes it suitable for plow blades, shovels, bedsprings, cutting edges, or other high-wear applications.

Low-Carbon Steel
Steel with less than 0.005% carbon is more ductile (malleable): It is capable of being drawn out or rolled thin for use in automotive body applications. Carbon is removed from the steel bath through vacuum degassing.

Plate
Sheet steel with a width of more than eight inches, with a thickness ranging from one quarter of an inch to more than one foot.

[bat119]

We have to remember the media considers any type of firearm to be "high" powered could have been a 22 rimfire. Shooting a flat steel plate at 25 yds. with anything would not be smart.

[cricketlakehunter]

I believe the media report stated it was 25 meters, not yards. Still not far enough for me.

[bat119]

I meant 27.3403 yards

[cricketlakehunter]

Oops. My bad. Got feet and yards confused. Been a long day lol

[bat119]

That's ok I'm still thinking in pre 1978 terms LOL

[Selkirk]

I, along with a number of users, were out at the Public Range this morning. No evidence of this sort of an incident occurring there.
Wonder if the incident occurred in one of the 'random' ranges used along Homestead Rd.

I'm not so sure it really matters ... the whole Homestead area is just one big Gong Show :sad0020:

May 'The Force' be with you,

Mac

[Mountain Adventurer]

Has anyone seen that video called guy hit in the head with .50 cal ricochet ? Brutal near miss and very lucky. Wew!

[RBI]

I have seen all sorts of stuff used as targets out there, hunks of I-beam or angle iron... just because the news story described it as a steel plate, I wouldn't assume it was a proper steel target. Could have been just a hunk of metal that was left on the range.

ARG

Ain't that the truth . maybe they were out in the parking lot , shooting at the big steel dumpster.

[RBI]

Has anyone seen that video called guy hit in the head with .50 cal ricochet ? Brutal near miss and very lucky. Wew!

Post # 48 by skytop B

[243 wild cat]

Has anyone seen that video called guy hit in the head with .50 cal ricochet ? Brutal near miss and very lucky. Wew!

Ya seen it and did you see how close he was when he shot it lol what the hell was he thinking!! with a 50 cal. Have been told it was like a 100 yards and when you watch it is a close shot and yes its BRUTAL!! some one would think that would be safe. Its a 50 cal!!!! get it out there 700 to 2500 + :snapoutofit:. He was a lucky fool.

[Bushleague]

still trying to wrap my head around shooting a target at 25 yards with a rifle

lol, this! Only people I've ever seen practice at this range with any regularity is the police.

[Xbolt7mm]

its called natural selection

[Cowtown guy]

I received an e-mail from the board of directors.

The e-mail stated that the RCMP confirmed the incident DID NOT occur at any of the approved ranges in the Homestead area.

[JimPS]

I received an e-mail from the board of directors.

The e-mail stated that the RCMP confirmed the incident DID NOT occur at any of the approved ranges in the Homestead area.

What actually does "approved" mean at Homestead?
Are the Public Rifle and Shotgun Trap ranges considered to be approved" or are the private ranges the only ones "approved".

[DiabeticKripple]

What actually does "approved" mean at Homestead?
Are the Public Rifle and Shotgun Trap ranges considered to be approved" or are the private ranges the only ones "approved".

im pretty sure the actual ranges are all approved.

he mustve been shooting in the area on some crown.

[Cowtown guy]

What actually does "approved" mean at Homestead?
Are the Public Rifle and Shotgun Trap ranges considered to be approved" or are the private ranges the only ones "approved".

The public range is approved and falls under the purview of the other clubs that are there.

That is why we, the members, are always up there cleaning the garbage that the other pigs leave. Those jerks that don't want to pay, but still want to play got it real easy.

[JimPS]

The public range is approved and falls under the purview of the other clubs that are there.

That is why we, the members, are always up there cleaning the garbage that the other pigs leave. Those jerks that don't want to pay, but still want to play got it real easy.

Thanks for the clarification and thanks also for your efforts in trying to keep a handle on the porcine element that gives this place a bad rap.

It must cost a lot for those dumpster bins trucked in and out of there.

[Quinn]

A lot depends on the bullet.

I'd guess this was steel core.

We shoot steel at 10-15 yards often with pistols and down to 5y with shotgun. Only with plated bullets though. #7.5+ lead.

I've had jacketed bullets come back at TSE often. Ive seen big hunks of lead and copper when picking up brass. Some sting like a bee on a motorcycle.

I don't shoot steel with my rifle from 250+.

[Yycadm]

I saw a guy shoot himself in the face with a ricocheted .357 out there, about 10 years ago. He was capping rounds at loose rocks way too close to the line, despite a number of people (myself included) giving him crap/packing up to leave while he persisted.

His day of shooting didn't last long; maybe 15 minutes start to finish. Then another hour or so waiting for the paramedics while we tried to plug the holes in his cheek and chin to keep the red stuff from leaking out. It could have been a lot more serious wound; he just tore a nasty hole in his cheek, but that was the last time I was ever out there.

[88thunderbird]

What actually does "approved" mean at Homestead?
Are the Public Rifle and Shotgun Trap ranges considered to be approved" or are the private ranges the only ones "approved".

Last time i drove up there on a friday afternoon , some people using the side of the road as there own range .

[ex811]

The public range is approved and falls under the purview of the other clubs that are there.

That is why we, the members, are always up there cleaning the garbage that the other pigs leave. Those jerks that don't want to pay, but still want to play got it real easy.

What sort of f--ked up comment is that!!! That is an elitist and selfish statement, placing yourself on a pedestal as a 'all good and great' firearms user because you belong to a club, looking down on the plebs who are not of your calibre because we do not belong to a 'club'. What are we, children!

Calling those who don't belong to a 'private club' Jerks is one of the reasons many don't belong to these clubs. Attitude.
K Country is Public Land, You Do Not Own the land your club shoots on, but you are afforded the privilege by us jerks, the taxpayers, to use the land.

Yes, the public range is a mess that needs cleaning on a regular basis, but Please do not assume you are the only ones who clean up.

I'm at the public range on a nearly weekly basis. I witness very few cases of disrespect for the range such as shooting at dumpsters, signs or leaving a mess. Don't think you, as a club member, are the only ones disgusted by that. Most of the users are respectful (of the range/other users), courteous and clean up after themselves. It's that minority of disrespectful users who tend to abuse the privilege.

[st99]

What sort of f--ked up comment is that!!! That is an elitist and selfish statement, placing yourself on a pedestal as a 'all good and great' firearms user because you belong to a club, looking down on the plebs who are not of your calibre because we do not belong to a 'club'. What are we, children!

Calling those who don't belong to a 'private club' Jerks is one of the reasons many don't belong to these clubs. Attitude.
K Country is Public Land, You Do Not Own the land your club shoots on, but you are afforded the privilege by us jerks, the taxpayers, to use the land.

Yes, the public range is a mess that needs cleaning on a regular basis, but Please do not assume you are the only ones who clean up.

I'm at the public range on a nearly weekly basis. I witness very few cases of disrespect for the range such as shooting at dumpsters, signs or leaving a mess. Don't think you, as a club member, are the only ones disgusted by that. Most of the users are respectful (of the range/other users), courteous and clean up after themselves. It's that minority of disrespectful users who tend to abuse the privilege.

Learn how to read buddy, he doesn't call jerk those who don't belong to a private club, but those who make a mess and leave garbage.

I agree with him, those people are jerks.

[kostianych]

To all APRA members,


We are saddened by reports in the press regarding a firearms related injury near Jumping Pound Creek this past Sunday. In consultation with the Cochrane RCMP it has been confirmed the incident did not occur on any of the APRA ranges (including the public ranges provided by the APRA). We hope that our membership take this opportunity to remember how important following firearms safety rules and standards are when engaged in shooting sports. We also advise all APRA members to not make speculative comments on this incident. We support the safe use of firearms and hope this incident does not tarnish the reputation of safe and law abiding shooters in the Calgary area.

Sincerely,

Bob Richards

APRA President

[kostianych]

RCMP should patrol the Homestead Road from time to time on Sundays and Saturdays.
There are several places along the road been converted to "private ranges" with no consideration of the downrange conditions: river, road or even a campground.

Before you shoot at an open space in K-Country, check your direction and the map (today we all have GPSs).......you will be surprised.....

[ex811]

Learn how to read buddy, he doesn't call jerk those who don't belong to a private club, but those who make a mess and leave garbage.

I agree with him, those people are jerks.

I have read it, obviously a few times. That is exactly what he is saying.

However, I think that we can all agree that those individuals who use firearms in an unsafe manner on any of the private, public or even ad hoc ranges along Homestead Rd and don't bother cleaning up after themselves are causing a problem. Sorry for the uber loooong sentence.
Hopefully we will learn from this and move forward...safely.

[Cowtown guy]

What sort of f--ked up comment is that!!! That is an elitist and selfish statement, placing yourself on a pedestal as a 'all good and great' firearms user because you belong to a club, looking down on the plebs who are not of your calibre because we do not belong to a 'club'. What are we, children!

Calling those who don't belong to a 'private club' Jerks is one of the reasons many don't belong to these clubs. Attitude.
K Country is Public Land, You Do Not Own the land your club shoots on, but you are afforded the privilege by us jerks, the taxpayers, to use the land.

Yes, the public range is a mess that needs cleaning on a regular basis, but Please do not assume you are the only ones who clean up.

I'm at the public range on a nearly weekly basis. I witness very few cases of disrespect for the range such as shooting at dumpsters, signs or leaving a mess. Don't think you, as a club member, are the only ones disgusted by that. Most of the users are respectful (of the range/other users), courteous and clean up after themselves. It's that minority of disrespectful users who tend to abuse the privilege.

Easy big fella. Grab a coffee. Exactly what I am saying is that there is likely 70-80% of the shooters out there at that public range do not give a lick about cleaning anything up. Very few people take targets down. Very few people take their garbage with them. They just keep stuffing their stuff in the already overflowing bins. Ever look at the shotgun area? I have been there many times before I paid for a membership at a place that I actually feel safe shooting at. Never again.

I am not an elitist. I don't look down on other shooters that don't have the means of buying a membership. The whole 200 bucks. I look down on pigs and abusers that don't care enough to pick up their garbage and continually shoot the hell out of everything out there. Signs, garbage bins, fence posts, target board posts.... All shot up. If you can't see the bullet holes and the damages in all of this stuff I just mentioned then I don't know what range you are frequenting.

It is the members of the other ranges out there that clean up that range twice a year so that these pigs can continually act like jerks by leaving it in a disgraceful state. What else should I call them? Fine upstanding Sportsmen perhaps? Any suggestions? How is it that I am afforded the privilege of shooting there by you? In actuality, it is you that has the privilege because of the other clubs out there. It is a condition that we supply a public range for the upstanding sportsmen that leave it like a garbage dump.

If you clean up then I applaud you. You are one of the few. Don't try and paint it any differently.

[Cowtown guy]

On another note...

I just read on FaceBook that the fella that was hit in the incident was shooting a 30/06 from 30 yards. The fella says that it was a friend of his that was hit.