Ferral horses on sheep and elk range

[Duffy4]

This is elk and sheep winter range along the South Ram canyon. But it is now occupied by these ferral horses.


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/duffy4/100_6839.jpg

Robin in Rocky

[Fickell]

I dont agree with shooting them but they need to be gone from wild animals range captured and given to those who want them and the rest slaughtered

[varmitr]

shooting isnt the answer, feral horses need a home or packing plant, our eastern slopes are not the public pasture
stray dogs dont get this privelege.

[Delburnedave]

I say if they have to be taken out of the wild, which I think they do, then why not shoot them? If they were shot and left where they dropped maybe the wolves feed on the carcass, and maybe that saves a couple of moose or elk calves? Why does live capturing them and hauling them to slaughter to be made into dog food make it better? They're still dead. If it saves a few elk and moose I'd rather put sentimentallity aside and look at it from a practical perspective.

[varmitr]

hey dave, i know you respect horses too
i dont disagree with you at all, i think somehow with public sentiment, it will cast negative shadow to (us). dead is still dead.
in some cultures, it is a delicasy, maybe they should have a meat season?

[Delburnedave]

Yes, you're definately right, when it comes to public perception, all practicallity and common sense seems to go out the window, especially when animal rights and such become involved. I was just thinking that if some dead horses could take some of the pressure off our game herds, and they need to be removed anyway, I'd personally rather see that happen than have them fed to dogs or sent to another country for human consumption (not to many people around here into eating horse meat).

[Davey Crocket]

Duffy, since you have acess to some photos, any number count on these ferrel horses in that area?? I mean would killing 5.. or 10.., and lettin the wolves gorge themselves have an impact, maybe shoot all the horses, then blast the wolves, just wonderin what is the lesser of 2 evils?

[nube]

You guys make me laugh. Six months ago it wa all this save the horses stuff and how disgusting it was that some of them get shot every year and now because they are on sheep and elk wintering grounds we are thinking of shooting them or taking them to Fort Mcloed for horse meat. I didn't voice my opinions before but after hunting in the Hinton and Rob area I have come to the conclusion there are too many out there and I couldn't care less if the mojority of them get shot. All I saw from it was the Elk herds where pushed out and huge piles of horse dung averywhere. I think we need to have some wild horses because of the magic of seeing a wild horse or 2 but there are way too many and I would rather see more wildlife than a herd of horses taking over a valley.

[Canmoron]

Hi DelburneD,

I think that leaving a number of dead horses for wolves to eat will only increase the number of wolves in the area, and in the long run, result in lower game numbers.

An easy food source like dead horses will draw in wolves, and once that bonanza food source is gone, they'll hit local deer/elk/moose populations hard before dispersing again.

It was interesting watching the wolf (and cougar) population dynamics when Parks Canada 'hazed' large numbers of elk out of the townsite a few years ago. For generations these elk had never seen anything more threatening than a poodle inside town - and all of a sudden they were facing wolves and cougars. The dinner bell rang pretty loud and the smorgabord in the valley soon attracted more predators then it had ever seen. When the buffet was over, there were a lot of hungry wolves and kittys around.. At least one cougar was killed by wolves, a cross-country skier was killed by a cougar, and hungry cougars were driven into town looking for food before things settled down again.

Andrew

[Delburnedave]

Good point Canmoron, I hadn't actually thought of it that way. Feed the wolves, make them stronger, ultimatley you end up with more wolves, and less game ( when you run out of horses to feed them LOL). Nube, I had the same opinion 6 months ago, I just refrained from voicing it with the media circus that was going on surrounding the horse shootings by Sundre. I still believe that they don't belong in the wild any more than any other introduced species.

[Grizzly Adams]

I, for one, was amazed, well not really, at the world wide outcry because some AH shot a few feral horses. We should worry this much about our kids.:rollin Just like Grizzlies, the protectionists keep throwing out numbers that claim these things are "endangered" and just like Grizzlies encounters with them indicate the opposite. My biggest fear is that the protectionists will have their way and we end up like the U.S. where there is no practical way to control the population. Shooting a "wild" horse is a Federal offense that would get you jail time and a huge fine.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a horse lover, but these things have a very limited place in the Wilds and we should keep it that way.
I have been told that Ted Morton has no interest in getting involved in thisissue, which is a relief.
Grizz

[horse]

(Don't get me wrong, I'm a horse lover, but these things have a very limited place in the Wilds and we should keep it that way.)What are you saying shoot but pick up your empty shell caseing before you leave the area.

[shootem dead]

They need to be removed. They are no better then the wild hogs that escape put a bounty on em.

[feral horses]

Feral horses have to be removed by any means that works in the given area.Romantic ideas and thaughts of them as a remnent of the old west don't bring back the forage they eat or the range destroyed by them.The facts are that they are no more native than a herd of zebras would be, all they do as far as I am concerned is displace native game and rip up fragile Elk habitat.

[Wild horses]

Cool pic Duffy. I hunt elk behind the lynx creek area. We always see a small herd of wild horses in there. Sure see lots of poop piles of where they have been. Found a few skeletons of them too. They must compete for food with the deer and elk and the ones I see are sure shy, dont stand around too long. Not sure what the best thing to do is. I know we were wall tenting in a back valley a few years ago on the opening week for rifle. We were coming out on a sunday and we see a dead, aprox 2yr old horse, 300 yrds into a cut block. It wasnt there 2 days before as we quadded the same trail. I walked up to it and it was shot where it was standing. Only the birds had found it. I was back in there the next saturday and the whole horse was gone, not a bone or hair to be found. Just a drag mark to the tree edge. I guess mr top of the food chain was eating well just inside the trees. Must have been a good sized bear to drag it over 1000yrds to the trees. Im sure the bears and wolves take out a few horses as well. Does anyone know what the law or the government position is on wild horses.

[Fickell]

There is no such thing as wild horses lynx creek way or any where around hinton they are all owned and let run freely to chase wild animals from thier food and yes they need to be gone the wolf thing was the reason I did not like the idea of just shooting them that would only make the wolf population stronger.All horses in alberta are all feral and need culing and the owners of the loose horses should be made to fence them in and feed them on there own land or lease area not feeding them off of crown land at the expence of wild animals

[Grizzler]

What are the rules on these horses? Is it at all possible to trap them? I would love to go get some. Would make some rank broncs for the rodeo scene. I to believe that they should be removed. They shut down areas to ATVS etc etc because they are ruining the natural conditions. These horses are doing the same thing. They weren't here 100 years ago, and shouldn't be now.

[splitbrow]

Again, I hope this link helps.

MODS -> you think we could get a FAQ section put up on the forum for topics such as this? Thanks...

www.srd.gov.ab.ca/land/m_...orses.html (http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/land/m_feral_horses.html)

[Davey Crocket]

Still curious on any numbers of wild horses in that area. Duffy, you started with the pic, any guess? Legit Question.

[Duffy4]

Fish & Wildlife makes a note of ferral horses when they see them while on "game counts" but they do not do surveys and population estimates on them.

Recently Forestry did a flight in some known Ferral horse "haunts" to get a count but I'm not sure how many they saw. Not as many as they thought they would though.

Robin

[use of ranges do overlap...]

There was a study done in the states which determined that they do overlap and they are in the case of the study trying to manage for both species.

<a href="http://www.nrel.colostate.edu/projects/bighorn/bighorn.pdf" target="_new">http://www.nrel.colostate.edu/projects/bighorn/bighorn.pdf</a>


VI. Overlap of Bighorn Sheep and Wild Horse Habitats
Managers desire to increase the amount of bighorn sheep habitat in order to increase the
viability of the species in and around BCNRA. Questions have arisen about whether
horses and sheep compete for the same habitat, and to what extent, if at all, horses outcompete
sheep and thus restrict sheep viability across the BCNRA. Thus, the overlap of
the two species is of concern.

Regards,

Fudd!

[nshunter]

Holy moly..I'm going to likely get beat up bad for posting this but...here goes.... Hunted elk last year in the porcs. Saw so many cattle and so much cow crap...should they be culled as well? We saw hundreds of cattle. Crap on the quads...crap on our boots... Maybe I'm not "in the know" about this feral horse issue but don't the cattle that are ranged in the bow crow also compete with the resident elk herd in these areas? Same would apply to the Kananaskis right. My god..I can't see me putting an arrow in a horse....
Ok bring it on.....

Nsh

[Lazy Ike]

The cattle don't typically range there all year besides they are property, feral horses have been abandoned(for whatever reason). As for your experience, cattle are pretty lazy and Elk are not; if you're in an area that has a tonne of cow sign you may want to start walking and by that I mean up. I've hunted plenty of Ranch terrain and they sustain very large Elk populations becuase the Elk will graze where the cattle won't. That said they will also graze where the cattle do and the Ranchers seem to dislike this quality in Elk.

horse I spooked ran through a may-long campsite?