Commercial fishery

[crudedude]

Just to let everyone no they netted Rattlesnake last week and pulled out 3900kg of Whitefish.They also netted some big Pike and large Walleyes.They sell the fish to the Hutterites.What a shame .:(

[Walleyes]

Not to sure why its a shame ?? as long as the fish is used properly which I'm sure not a bit of it will go to waste at the hoods place.. There ain't nothing stopping you and I from going in there and gettin a few if we want.. Its my understanding that that lake has been netted for years and if there are still a good number of fish in it can't really see the problem.

[bull9898]

Just to let everyone no they netted Rattlesnake last week and pulled out 3900kg of Whitefish.They also netted some big Pike and large Walleyes.They sell the fish to the Hutterites.What a shame .:(


i don't know what the problem is with commericial fishing and why it is a waste if the lake is open it is open for a reason i netted white fish up on beaver lake and laclabiche for years to feed my family and to pay the bills so i don't take kindly to your ignorant comments.

[packhuntr]

Bull, im not sure there was anything ignorant about his post. Sure commercial fishing for whitefish is alright. Its been happening for years on alot of lakes. Whitefish are a prey species, they are very prolific, they can absolutely sustain a harvest to that magnitude, its been proven year after year, no question. I think the big problems with netting arrise when non target species are caught in nets. This would be where your post would become the ignorant one, and where does your livelyhood take precidence over everything and anyone else???? Give me a break, educate yourself and then think before you speak. I would enjoy hearing your thoughts on what happens to a fishery when large predatory species like mega pike and big walleye are inadvertantly caught in your nets. Please expell some of your apparent knowledge of maintaining healthy fisherys so others like myself might come to fully understand this.

[WildCats]

Bull, im not sure there was anything ignorant about his post. Sure commercial fishing for whitefish is alright. Its been happening for years on alot of lakes. Whitefish are a prey species, they are very prolific, they can absolutely sustain a harvest to that magnitude, its been proven year after year, no question. I think the big problems with netting arrise when non target species are caught in nets. This would be where your post would become the ignorant one, and where does your livelyhood take precidence over everything and anyone else???? Give me a break, educate yourself and then think before you speak. I would enjoy hearing your thoughts on what happens to a fishery when large predatory species like mega pike and big walleye are inadvertantly caught in your nets. Please expell some of your apparent knowledge of maintaining healthy fisherys so others like myself might come to fully understand this.

x2

[happy perch fisher]

Commerical fishing is bs why sould a couple guys be able to fill a couple hundred freezers. Fishing in alberta is getting worse every year. Commerical fishing only benfits a few and screws everyone else over. Bull maybe u sould consider getting a job or something not expect the goverment to allow to ruin lakes so u did'nt have to do any real work. Whitefish population are disapering in the masses by overharvesting and commerical fishing. Lac st anne, hanmore, pigion. gull and slyvan are getting hit hard and will be in the same boat as pigion and lac st anne soon. Sure pigion and lac st anne has massive whites. But thats basically all they have. They have very few if any smaller ones. Its so funny when people say the whitefish are not biting. If they would bite there would'nt be anymore there. Those whitefish are left because they are smartest and the biggest of there genration. I remeber 10 years ago you could go to pigion and see and catch tons of whitefish in a day ranging from 12inches to 25. Now your see a couple of big whitefish and thats it. These limits are so stupid for them. 10 of them is way to many whitefish for these lake to sustain. They sould of made the limits ranging for them to 1-3. Considering most of them caught are the size of a medium size to medium-big size walleye. Its to late to do anything now for them and nothing can be done because way to many people will bitch about it. So enjoy those big whitefish because soon there will be none left.

[crudedude]

I was not trying to be ignorant with what I had stated.The fact is all the fish that are caught which are not targeted are the large fish.I have fished Rattle snake for many years and have not caught anything of the large variety.As for the Whitefish I have tried for them lots and have only caught a handful.I have heard for sometime the Alberta Govt is trying to buy up all the existing commercial licences is this true or just rumor?:confused:

[AxeMan]

Bull, im not sure there was anything ignorant about his post. Sure commercial fishing for whitefish is alright. Its been happening for years on alot of lakes. Whitefish are a prey species, they are very prolific, they can absolutely sustain a harvest to that magnitude, its been proven year after year, no question. I think the big problems with netting arrise when non target species are caught in nets. This would be where your post would become the ignorant one, and where does your livelyhood take precidence over everything and anyone else???? Give me a break, educate yourself and then think before you speak. I would enjoy hearing your thoughts on what happens to a fishery when large predatory species like mega pike and big walleye are inadvertantly caught in your nets. Please expell some of your apparent knowledge of maintaining healthy fisherys so others like myself might come to fully understand this.

X3.....Well put, packhuntr. I have personally seen the damage commercial fishing has done to Beaver Lake. I watched as one net came up out of a bay, not the main basin where the whitefish are, and it was full of walleye and pike and some big perch. The guys netting told me I wasn't allowed to be there watching. I told them to F *** and continued ice fishing.

[Brian]

Commercial guys have invested money in licences, nets & other equipment and have a legal right to fish where the law says they can. They have no right to tell anyone else (anglers, snowmobilers, etc.) legally enjoying the lake, harvesting the resource, etc.) that they can't be there. Also, commercial fisherman provide fish for persons who like to eat fish but either can't or don't want to fish themselves. That said, I must add that I do not support commercial fishing in lakes where there is significant sports fishing pressure. With the resources & means of travel in modern day Alberta that pretty much includes every lake that has a road or cutline to it. Recreational angling benefits a huge number of people including all of the service providers (gas stations, fast food outlets, tackle/bait shops, etc, etc,) along the way. It's also hugely important (in my opinion) to attract young people & catch/hold their interest. They are the future to the protection of our resources, and I'd a whole lot rather have my son or daughter out fishing rather than some of the other passtimes they could get into. I also like the idea that there are some "untouched" lakes (ion my dreams) out there where the fishing has to be fantastic!......even though I may never get to fish them. Just thinking they exist has a value to me.
I realize that some fish populations may be better managed by some discriminate use of gill nets (commercial fishing if you prefer), but those are special cases and need to be identified very carefully before proceding. McGreggor Lake (southeast of Calgary & Lake Newell near Brooks) have been commercially fished for many years....primarly for whitefish (McGeggor to the tune of over 100,000+ lbs. of whitefish per year), although other species are taken, and the whitefish fishery at least seems to still be healthy. The walleye seem to be doing well also. There are ways of reducing the non-target species catch by restricting locations of net placement. Finally.......yes, government is buying back commercial licences in some areas (where & when they can) to reduce the commercial pressure on some lakes and to prevent backlash from commercial fishermen crying "foul" because their livelihood (so to speak) is being threatened by reduced quotas or closures. In most cases I'm sure the price the government pays for those licences is far more than the fishermen actually paid, but there could be exceptions to that, and I'm not sure what is fair. Certainly the commercial guys grouch a lot that they're being short changed. In all honesty, we would have to put ourselves in their place to realize that we wouldn't be real happy about it either. However, the individual can't be the priority as compared to the benefit to the greater population, and most of all.............the resource. My thoughts only, but I suspect others may share them.

[bull9898]

X3.....Well put, packhuntr. I have personally seen the damage commercial fishing has done to Beaver Lake. I watched as one net came up out of a bay, not the main basin where the whitefish are, and it was full of walleye and pike and some big perch. The guys netting told me I wasn't allowed to be there watching. I told them to F *** and continued ice fishing.


I can honestly tell you that you are full of S&*T cause you are not allowed to net in the bays only on the main lake if we set nets in the bays your right all we would catch would be walleye and pike. We just as much right to net as you do to come and fish.

[Walleyes]

X3.....Well put, packhuntr. I have personally seen the damage commercial fishing has done to Beaver Lake. I watched as one net came up out of a bay, not the main basin where the whitefish are, and it was full of walleye and pike and some big perch. The guys netting told me I wasn't allowed to be there watching. I told them to F *** and continued ice fishing.

Now I don't know what you mean by you have seen the devastation done on Beaver Lake first hand ?? I personally was born and raised in that town,, and have fished Beaver religiously for decades and I will tell you this my friend the Walleye fishery is as good if not better than it ever has been. And thats no bull. That area of the province was founded on fishing and trapping to say they are not allowed to do it at all is unreasonable because they have proven that they can sustain both commercial and sport harvests. No they can not sustain it to what it was years ago but to some extent yes it can be done. Its funny for years we all got along up in those woods the sporty and the commercial guys,, its only now with all the influx of the outsiders coming in from the cities that we can not sustain them both,, I wonder who has the right ??? the families that have fished for generations or the outsiders that come in for the weekend and feel they have all the rights ??

Now I am not defending commercial fishing in every body of water believe me I am not but it does have its place.. Now again it is my understanding that Rattlesnake has been netted for years if the netting is so devastating again why is there still a viable harvest taken each year ?? And its not like its a free for all they are allowed a certain poundage to be taken and when it is its shut down.. Does it do damage I suppose but quit with the b.s that its all over get used to no more big whites !!! come on get a grip...

[bull9898]

Now I don't know what you mean by you have seen the devastation done on Beaver Lake first hand ?? I personally was born and raised in that town,, and have fished Beaver religiously for decades and I will tell you this my friend the Walleye fishery is as good if not better than it ever has been. And thats no bull. That area of the province was founded on fishing and trapping to say they are not allowed to do it at all is unreasonable because they have proven that they can sustain both commercial and sport harvests. No they can not sustain it to what it was years ago but to some extent yes it can be done. Its funny for years we all got along up in those woods the sporty and the commercial guys,, its only now with all the influx of the outsiders coming in from the cities that we can not sustain them both,, I wonder who has the right ??? the families that have fished for generations or the outsiders that come in for the weekend and feel they have all the rights ??

Now I am not defending commercial fishing in every body of water believe me I am not but it does have its place.. Now again it is my understanding that Rattlesnake has been netted for years if the netting is so devastating again why is there still a viable harvest taken each year ?? And its not like its a free for all they are allowed a certain poundage to be taken and when it is its shut down.. Does it do damage I suppose but quit with the b.s that its all over get used to no more big whites !!! come on get a grip...

yes very well said walleyes i have lived at beaver lake my whole life and this guy has no clue what he is talking abought

[AxeMan]

I can honestly tell you that you are full of S&*T cause you are not allowed to net in the bays only on the main lake if we set nets in the bays your right all we would catch would be walleye and pike. We just as much right to net as you do to come and fish.

First off, Bull, you are the one that is full of it because I know what I saw and other people were with me that could concur. I have no idea if these guys were licensed commercial fisherman or natives (they looked native to me). Save your claims of BS. Next time I see it I will take a picture and mail it to you.

You have the right to commercial fish, yes. Are you happy now?

[AxeMan]

Now I don't know what you mean by you have seen the devastation done on Beaver Lake first hand ?? I personally was born and raised in that town,, and have fished Beaver religiously for decades and I will tell you this my friend the Walleye fishery is as good if not better than it ever has been. And thats no bull. That area of the province was founded on fishing and trapping to say they are not allowed to do it at all is unreasonable because they have proven that they can sustain both commercial and sport harvests. No they can not sustain it to what it was years ago but to some extent yes it can be done. Its funny for years we all got along up in those woods the sporty and the commercial guys,, its only now with all the influx of the outsiders coming in from the cities that we can not sustain them both,, I wonder who has the right ??? the families that have fished for generations or the outsiders that come in for the weekend and feel they have all the rights ??

Now I am not defending commercial fishing in every body of water believe me I am not but it does have its place.. Now again it is my understanding that Rattlesnake has been netted for years if the netting is so devastating again why is there still a viable harvest taken each year ?? And its not like its a free for all they are allowed a certain poundage to be taken and when it is its shut down.. Does it do damage I suppose but quit with the b.s that its all over get used to no more big whites !!! come on get a grip...

Walleyes, I received a rude pm from Bull saying I have probably never fished Beaver Lake and probably don't even know where it is and to stay in the city. Fact is I have a great knowledge of the lake and my Grandpa homesteaded 1/2 of a mile from the creek bay next to the Beaver Lake reserve. My dad was born half a mile from the lake in a cabin. I have been going there since I was 6 years old and have fished it hundreds of times. I am hardly an outsider from the city as my families heritage is there.

The walleye fishery is good now because of the restocking programs of the last decade. The lake was virtually collapsed before that. I remember in the early seventies when we could catch many 8-10 pound jacks and lots of perch over a pound. You admitted the the lake cannot be sustained to what it was years ago....I agree. There was a time when commercial fishing did take a toll on the lake, however. Do you recall the mink farm days in the region. Yes, those days when the lake trout were netted to extinction in Touchwood Lake.

I posted that I saw a net come up from a bay full of game fish which was true. It was in front of the Mission. You and Bull got all defensive and said I have no idea what I was talking about and that I am an outsider from the city. Just setting the record straight. I have a grip and don't appreciate your bogus claims of ignorance and BS.

[sonny]

Imformation as provided statistics from the Dept. of Sustainable Resourse Development Statistics.{a}320,000 anglers contribute $350,000,000,00{three hundred and fifty million dollars} to the economy. This does not take into account any tourisam dollars that would be contributed to this resourse.
{b} 800 commercial fishermen contribute $5,000,000 {five million dollars} to the economy.
{c} The 800 commercial fishermen are being reduced to 200 as a provincial goal, still to many nets.
The economic value of sports fishing v/s commercial fishing is a 70:1 ratio.
This clearly indicates where the priority and the importance of a proper management of the fishing resourse should be.
Tourisum and local businesses would also benifit if these lakes become known as better class fisheries.
The commercial fishing operaters would have you believe that there is a 100% honesty in the industry. Certanly the public has experienced things quite differently on occasion. Also, there have been reports of netters in delaying in removing nets, once the tolerance limits on quotas have been reached.
Last time Milk River Ridge res. was netted it was determined the tolerance levels was reached by mid afternoon, while some of the nets were not removed untill the next day, FACT. This was a 1 day fishery.
On Ridge Res. there was 1 Fish and Wildlife Officer on site to check commercial netters . The officer checks 10% to 30% of boats to determine the total count of fish. ON RIDGE RES. SPORTSFISHERMEN HAVE A 1 FISH LIMIT ON WALLEYE,OF 55cm.,3 PIKE OVER 63cm. O TOLERANCE FOR SPORTSFISHERMEN. NETTERS KEEP AND SELL ALL FISH THEY CATCH, NOT FAIR.
There is also the preception that any problems with the sports fishery is solely attributed to the sportsman and no one else. It has become very disturbing that the sportfishing regulations have been adjusted and set annualy to minimize the harvest and mortality of the sports fishery,while the commercial netters are then permitted to set thier nets to harvest and sell the sports fish that fish and wildlife have been regulating to protect.

[Walleyes]

Again guys I said that we can not sustain commercial harvest where it was years ago,, but we can sustain a certain amount we have proven it in quite a few lakes in the north.

And axeman where in my posts did I say you were full of b.s. I asked you where is the evidence of the devastation from the nets that you witnessed first hand that you talk about in Beaver ??? Seeing fish caught in a net is not seeing devastation its seeing fish caught in a net. And I will just about guaranty you this,, there have been a heck of a lot more Pike taken from Beaver through through the sporty in the last 15 years than has been with the nets..

And don't get me wrong I am not saying that outsiders don't have rights to those fish,, yes they do they belong to all Albertans,,, but those families that have lived off of that fishery for generations have a right to them as well.. Like it or not that's another fact..

Oh and another fact,,, the Lake Trout in Touchwood were not netted to extinction,, they were poisoned out during the second world war from the military doing chemical tests on the lake... Along with the Trout out of Square Lake as well.

[Sundancefisher]

I need some commercial fishermen to net Lake Sundance for perch and destroy the Perch population...

Any takers????:lol::wave:

[AxeMan]

Oh and another fact,,, the Lake Trout in Touchwood were not netted to extinction,, they were poisoned out during the second world war from the military doing chemical tests on the lake... Along with the Trout out of Square Lake as well.

Walleyes, I would like to know the actual facts on this one. Firstly, did Square Lake ever contain lake trout? I was not aware or ever heard that it did. I doubt it because the habitat of Square Lake is not condusive to lake trout. It is generally shallow and does not have the clean spawning beds that lake trout require.

Touchwood is another story though. The trout were virtually extinct in the lake at the end of the 1920's so I can't see military poisoning by the military in WW2 being the cause. The lake was leased to mink farmers for exclusive commercial fishing rights and the trout were netted to extinction. The history of this is well documented in the book "Lakes of the Lac La Biche District" published in 1975 by Chipeniuk. There is a well detailed account of this in the book. It is an excellent read...I would recommend it. It taken from the accounts of many old timers in the area.
Charley Carlson, Magloire Cardinal, Camille Ostigee to name a few. I stayed with old Camille for a couple of nights in his cabin at Jackson Lake when I was 16. I was fortunate enough to meet a few of the guys before they passed away. A short blurb on this can be found on the following link:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=uPgDwqflBNsC&pg=RA1-PA317&lpg=RA1-PA317&dq=touchwood+lake+%2Blake+trout&source=web&ots=DLbe-thIWX&sig=I4nt_jvfISswKPeJ7olgFENMk9w&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result

Peace on this one, dude. It was Bull who said I was full of BS mostly. I have zero respect for him. I see your point about seeing a few game fish in nets.

[addicted]

sad to see that those trout fisheries are now gone the provice should try to reestablish the lakes that this has occured in, Slave is a big one and something should be done.

[Walleyes]

Walleyes, I would like to know the actual facts on this one. Firstly, did Square Lake ever contain lake trout? I was not aware or ever heard that it did. I doubt it because the habitat of Square Lake is not condusive to lake trout. It is generally shallow and does not have the clean spawning beds that lake trout require

Square Lake is over 100' deep over most part of it... The whole east and North east shore is prodomenetly rocky ?? are you sure you have ever been to Square Lake.

As far as Touchwood being netted out in the 20's just how is it that the mink ranchers got into Touchwood in the 20's ??? there was no decent trail in to the lake until the 50's that I know because my father built it.. Are you going to tell me that in he 20's they road a
wagon in there just in the winter and fished it out,,, with all the other lakes in the area they had no reason to go in that far that lake is 25 miles from L.L.B. on todays road !!! and there wasn't even close to enough mink ranchers in our area back then to fish out those lakes..

One of the families that I talk about that have fished those waters for generations has had a trapline in and around Touchwood since the early 1900's they know darn well what took place on that lake.. Government documented or not...

[AxeMan]

Square Lake is over 100' deep over most part of it... The whole east and North east shore is prodomenetly rocky ?? are you sure you have ever been to square lake.

As far as Touchwood being netted out in the 20's just how is it that the mink ranchers got into Touchwood in the 20's ??? there was no decent trail in to the lake until the 50's that I know because my father built it.. Are you goingto tell me that in he 20's they road a
wagon in there and fished it out ??? with all the other lakes in the area,, they had no reason to go in that far.. That lake is 25 miles from L.L.B. on todays road !!!

Nope, Square Lake is one of the few that I have not personally fished. I will take your word on it. As for it it historically containing lake trout, you are the first I have heard this from.

Walleyes, I would suggest that you go to the library and sign out the book "Lakes of the Lac La Biche District" and read it. Not only is it an excellent read, you will get a good history lesson. I am not making this up. It is accepted history. Many teams of horses pulled sleighs into many of those lakes in those days. My grandpa homesteaded there in the 30's an early 40's and he had been into Touchwood in those days. Thanks to your dad for building the road in the 50's. It is much easier now. If you disagree with the history on Touchwood Lake, then you are disagreeing with Ray Chipeniuk who wrote the book and many of the people he referenced in the book. I was not around in those days so I will take these peoples accounts for what the history was.

Please enlighten us on what you claim happened to the trout in Touchwood and what is being hidden by the government or the military. I would love to get to the bottom of this one.

I found this: Square Lake was subject to some tests conducted by a Dr. Millar in 1947-49 in which he used rotenone in the lake during a parasite study in Pike and Cisco. This is documented in a book called "Fish, Fur and Feathers. Read page 194 in the following link.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=FILek0eGahUC&pg=PT213&lpg=PT213&dq=square+lake+%2Balberta&source=bl&ots=qmA-OSLNSz&sig=m6fsDj--o2-FDwx_J4Namx3BkZg&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result#PPT213,M1

Is this what you are referring to?

[Walleyes]

I think we are getting carried way off topic here Axe,, but thats O.K.

Now as far as evidence as to what happened in Touchwood come on do you expect me to go into government files dated back to the 40's and find this evidence ?? where would I go to get these. There are people that wittenssed first hand what went on there what else do you want,, other than their word thats all there is.. Now again I'm not saying that there was no one that went into those lakes to fish in those days but to beleive that in those times under those conditions that they were netted dead is obsered,, Ray Chipeniuk or not..

I'm not going by some Ukranian farmers take on it,, I'm going by the metis family's that I grew up with in the area that have trapped and fished those waters for generations..

But anyways lets just let this one die because its going to go no where..

Best of luck to yah this ice season and later on towards spring,, say some time in March I am going to be hittin the waters of Blacket and Seibert and Beaver pretty hard for a couple weeks I will P.M. you around that time lets look at hookin up and doing some fishin together.. Maybe we will have a better chance to discuss it..

Thx..

[AxeMan]

Okay, sound good, Walleyes. I will definitely be going up that way later this winter. I'll pm you too when I have some plans. Maybe we can hook up on the ice. Cheers and good fishing. And we can discuss the history stuff then....lol. You may be right , the Ukrainian farmer may be stretching things a bit.

[Justanotherbuck2]

Sonny using your statistics, Commercial fishermen would per fisherman contribute $6250.00 to a local economy and a private sports angler based on the numbers on your post would only contribute $1093.00 per angler. Based on this you could say the commercial guys are 6 times a greater contributor than a sports fisherman. Statistics are a wonderful thing but can be spun in a totally different manner to support which ever side you may be on. Personally I'm OK with fellows making an honest living fishing, its a historic part of history and another management tool. I don't think SRD is doing a bad job managing the fishery to ensure both groups have a fair shake. As for those that bend the rules or make up their own, take pictures and call the report a poacher hot line.

[sonny]

Justanotherbuck 2, You bet statistics are a wonderfull thing, but the truth of this is.
[a] 320,000 anglers contribute $350,000,000,00 [three hundred and fifty million dollars] to the economy.
[b] 800 Commercial fishermen contribute $5,ooo,ooo,oo [five million dollars]to the economy.
No matter what calculater you use the sportsfishermen in Alberta still pay the big dollars.
Another point, last time Milk River ridge Res. was netted, The netters were allowed to set their nets anywhere on the lake that pleased them, bays included.
Nets where set onshore in 5-10 ft. of water, 100yds. towards the middle of lake, 51/2 inch mesh, expanding downwards to approx. 25ft. NOTHING GETS AWAY.
This was a 1 day fishery, the tolerance for walleye was reached by midday, yet some nets where left in the water till next day, Hellish good management.
That year the price of whitefish was $2.00lb.- walleye was $6.00 lb.
With a 10%to a 30% check on boats, boats left the lake on 4 different locations, 1 Fish and wildlife Officer checking, good luck.
Being a 1 day fishery netters knew toleraces for walleye would be met early in the day, they then would be off the lake for 3 years,
They targetted walleye, and did a damed good job of it.