Agressive cops on sylvan

[fluxcore]

I was out on sylvan today when I noticed a boat approaching then slowed to a crawl about 1000 yards out or so and proceeded to watch us for about 45min, I could see the binos reflect the light a few times so I pulled mine out took a peek and gave a quick wave, instantly they jumped up on plain and came over. These were not conservation officers but RCMP, two gentlemen that asked to see my boating licence, insurence and saftey stuff all of which I had......then the grilling started "hot day out here how many beer do u have on the boat?" And "you should hand them over now so we don't have to go through everything" we laughed but they pushed it again then again. Next they asked about any illegal catches aboard the the boat we said no but the grilling started again and we were warned a co would be contacted to look over any suspicious catches, after we re affirmed we had no fish aboard the boat so.......... We were boarded all my compartments gone through then with a quick "sorry for the inconvenience" they were on their way. Are they allowed to search my boat for no reason ? I was also warned about my small all in one saftey bucket, it's a bailer with some roap, flashlight and a whistle and how in the future it won't be allowed? They were rude, pushy and all around unprofessional.

[tight line]

Brutal... Bunch of Jerks.. I have the same all in 1 bucket, what is the issue with them?

[Kokanee9]

They asked to see your boat insurance?

Does anyone know if they need permission to come on the boat without cause?

[58thecat]

Brutal... Bunch of Jerks.. I have the same all in 1 bucket, what is the issue with them?

Don't get a wound up now, just a one sided story, a rant is all. Sure if we all sat in a room with both parties that a better picture would be painted.

[Northern Yaker]

Sounds like they were doing their job. Cops are just dicks by nature.
The real question is if boarding and searching your boat without probable cause is legal.

[Kokanee9]

....................
The real question is if boarding and searching your boat without probable cause is legal.

I have been checked many times on the water, but never boarded. I have opened compartments if requested and never had a problem.

An aggressive check as outlined in the OP, puts a person on the defensive even before they arrive at the side of your boat.

I would be tempted to deny boarding and not answer any irrelevant questions. Just show whats required, when asked, and that's it.

[Duster]

Boats are just like trucks or cars. They can only search it if they have probable cause. Therefore if you werent doing anything illegal than they shouldnt have been alllowed. Did they ask i they could search it?

[fluxcore]

[QUOTE=Kokanee9;2875487]They asked to see your boat insurance?

Sure did, not a big deal maybe to make sure it's not stolen ?

[FlyTheory]

Next time invite them on board off the batt. Keeps em happy, and let's them know that you have nothing to hide. That's what I do!

[fluxcore]

Don't get a wound up now, just a one sided story, a rant is all. Sure if we all sat in a room with both parties that a better picture would be painted.

I've had nothing but great experiences with CO's........I was 100% complient, we weren't drinking, had all the right info but my boat was still borded and searched...... I like that they were on the lake even mentioned right off the bat it was nice to see them out on the water. Just felt they needed to find somthing with or without my cooperation.

[sanjuanworm]

They're allowed to board without warrant.

[fluxcore]

Next time invite them on board off the batt. Keeps em happy, and let's them know that you have nothing to hide. That's what I do!

Sounds like a plan! Not an issue it was more I wasn't sure about my rights and they did not ask and made it feel like normal routine for them.

[Astrocyte]

You could have stumbled across cops that just had enough of other people that day and you got the brunt of their attitude. It happens. There are a lot of boating drinking liars that are out on the waters these days so it is good to see that they are at least out on the waters checking. I believe they can board if they so choose, but just let them do what they must...I mean if there was nothing illegal happening they will find out quickly and be on their way. If you show apprehension or discontent they will not take that lightly and flags will be set off.

[fluxcore]

You could have stumbled across cops that just had enough of other people that day and you got the brunt of their attitude. It happens. There are a lot of boating drinking liars that are out on the waters these days so it is good to see that they are at least out on the waters checking. I believe they can board if they so choose, but just let them do what they must...I mean if there was nothing illegal happening they will find out quickly and be on their way. If you show apprehension or discontent they will not take that lightly and flags will be set off.

I agree 100% it's not a stress free job, sounds like boarding my boat was legal.

[hal53]

Probably not a nice job on a day like yesterday, hot, dressed in full uniform and getting flack from 90% of the people they stop to check about what's right or wrong...I agree, invite them aboard , check out what ever they want and they will be on their way. Glad to see them out there!...Good on you for the way you dealt with it

[benamen]

I don't fish a lot in Alberta so do you need to have insurance for all boats and have proof of it with the boat?
Thanks,

[B.O.]

You don't require insurance but your boat must be registered and be able to provide the papers on there request

[JohninAB]

Glad they were out and about.

I do not believe you are required to have a copy of your boat insurance on board, just a copy of the boat registration if the boat is required by law to be registered.

[dshot]

The RCMP are aggressive on Sylvan because 90% of the boaters on that lake do not follow the laws for boating and fishing, and drive like idiots. Not saying you are on of those people obviously. But being on that lake for the last 20 years I can tell you that if you had to deal with the amount of irresponsible behavior we see every summer for 4 months you might understand why they act like that.

[Kim473]

Glad they were out and about.

I do not believe you are required to have a copy of your boat insurance on board, just a copy of the boat registration if the boat is required by law to be registered.

Our boat is registerd but lost the paper work many years ago. Like 20 or more. What can they do? Failing to produce papers, like a car ? $25.00 fine. How would one go about getting new paper work?

Glade to see them out but they need to be respectfull as well as pleasent to deal with. Been checked by many CO's and they have all been very nice to deal with. Never asked for registration. Maybe the RCMP are looking for stolen boats? That would be nice to see.

[TROLLER]

You have boat registration number so as long as your name is on the papers it should not be difficult to get a replacement. Check out their web most likely has info on that very thing.

[tight line]

Don't get a wound up now, just a one sided story, a rant is all. Sure if we all sat in a room with both parties that a better picture would be painted.

Lol, ya not really getting wound up at all, i know people in law enforcement. There are different ways to carry out your job, and some enforcement personel definately lack giving mutual respect to someone that has done nothing wrong is all.

[Kurt505]

The RCMP are aggressive on Sylvan because 90% of the boaters on that lake do not follow the laws for boating and fishing, and drive like idiots. Not saying you are on of those people obviously. But being on that lake for the last 20 years I can tell you that if you had to deal with the amount of irresponsible behavior we see every summer for 4 months you might understand why they act like that.

Still does not give them the right to act like that. If they cannot conduct themselves in a respectful manner regardless of the circumstances, they need to find another career. Policing has special powers above what the average Joe is allowed, if you can't help but abuse those special powers it means you shouldn't have them plain and simple.

I wasn't there, but I expect 100% professional conduct from law enforcement officers 100% of the time, otherwise a call in to the superior officer is in order. Never make a deal out of things with an unprofessional officer because things will surely get ugly. Comply with everything they say, document it best you can, file a complaint with the superiors. We are fortunate in this day and age of cell phone capabilities, just hit "record".

[Kokanee9]

"They asked to see your boat insurance?"

[QUOTE=Kokanee9;2875487]

Sure did, not a big deal maybe to make sure it's not stolen ?


Do you mean boat registration or insurance? Always had the impression that boat insurance was not mandatory. If that has changed, I didn't know.

[Nester]

Nice to see the RCMP out doing there job at Sylvan.


Terrible to hear that they hurt your feelings.

[CK Angler]

Did they trick you into allowing them? I got checked with my boat on trailer just pulling up from the launch by the CO's, had nothing to hide but we were really being grilled and I felt we were being targeted for being, at the time, in my early 20's. When it came to checking my boat the CO said " now I'm going to jump into your boat and look around, do you mind?"
See what he did there.
He told me he was going to search my boat, then asked if i minded, trying to get me to give consent. I played it off casually, asked him if his boots were muddy, sure enough they were. So I said actually I do mind, I don't want you tracking mud in my boat. And that was that.

[Okotokian]

As long as they were friendly I'd cooperate in the same manner. They have a job to do. But if they got rude or pushy I'd probably take out my phone and record the interaction, keep them on their best behavior. At least I'd know I'd get called "Sir" a lot.

[Game Hunter]

Did they trick you into allowing them? I got checked with my boat on trailer just pulling up from the launch by the CO's, had nothing to hide but we were really being grilled and I felt we were being targeted for being, at the time, in my early 20's. When it came to checking my boat the CO said " now I'm going to jump into your boat and look around, do you mind?"
See what he did there.
He told me he was going to search my boat, then asked if i minded, trying to get me to give consent. I played it off casually, asked him if his boots were muddy, sure enough they were. So I said actually I do mind, I don't want you tracking mud in my boat. And that was that.

Well played. I expect respect to go both ways, the officer or I should both respond positively. If there's a reason for him or I to get upset well that's played after the first bit of conversation. They have bad days so do we, were people.
Offer him a beer in that hot uniform 😜
G.H

[fluxcore]

Nice to see the RCMP out doing there job at Sylvan.


Terrible to hear that they hurt your feelings.

Lol no hurt feelings report filled out, just sharing my day :love0025:

[chriscosta]

They have a job to do yes like make sure the boats not stolen..or make sure your not impaired and all your safety stuff was there..even take a look to see if you have illegal fish ...but there is absolutely no readon to keep digging past that point...sounds like they watched you to see if theyd catch ya red handed on somethin and when that didnt work they came over looked harder ..and once they realised you didnt really know any better they pushed it as far as they could ...definately not the type of experience id expect on a day at the lake sounds harsh to me i agree withvthe one statement that id expect 100 percent proffesional 100 percent of the time not being bullied and belittled by the police ...if they gad no reason after watching you for 45 min then they shoulda had no reason to approach you and walk on you like that ...sorry to hear you had to go through this while you were trying to enjoy yourself ..and i dont think youll see me fishing at sylvan again if thats what your gonna hafta deal with...on a sode note i have seen a few stolen boats posted on fb lately and i even think one mighta been at sylvan lake maybe by chance your boat resembled a stolen boat or somethin crazy and they had to make sure

[muskie032]

Sounds like a good reason to stay off Sylvan

[spurly]

Not to de rail this post, but is insurance, and registration required on a 14' boat,
With less than a 10 hp motor. I am was under the impression, neither is needed, just the trailer needs registration.

[Habfan]

Nice to see the RCMP out doing there job at Sylvan.


Terrible to hear that they hurt your feelings.

Watching a person fishing for 45 min. then racing over because the person waved to them, obviously telling the cops that there stake out was blown, then proceeded to be idiots, IMO, I think the cops feelings were hurt because they wasted all that time for nothing !! If they watched him drinking or poaching they would not have waited that long to come and search ! Ya, always nice to see them !

[Talking moose]

Not to de rail this post, but is insurance, and registration required on a 14' boat,
With less than a 10 hp motor. I am was under the impression, neither is needed, just the trailer needs registration.

Correct. Just need your boaters licence.

[spurly]

Correct. Just need your boaters licence.

Thank you.

[tight line]

Watching a person fishing for 45 min. then racing over because the person waved to them, obviously telling the cops that there stake out was blown, then proceeded to be idiots, IMO, I think the cops feelings were hurt because they wasted all that time for nothing !! If they watched him drinking or poaching they would not have waited that long to come and search ! Ya, always nice to see them !

That about sums it up..lol

[Bobby B.]

Whenever an authority figure approaches you, friendly like or otherwise, always be confrontational and advise them of your legal rights. Do not cooperate in any way. Also, feel free to criticise these morons for not catching the true criminals on the water. Afterall, these idiots are there only to harass the innocent and turn a blind eye to the poachers we want to see persecuted. After that, give your head a shake and kick yourself in the ass. Next, try and discover any irony.

Bobby

[Habfan]

Whenever an authority figure approaches you, friendly like or otherwise, always be confrontational and advise them of your legal rights. Do not cooperate in any way. Also, feel free to criticise these morons for not catching the true criminals on the water. Afterall, these idiots are there only to harass the innocent and turn a blind eye to the poachers we want to see persecuted. After that, give your head a shake and kick yourself in the ass. Next, try and discover any irony.

Bobby

Im sorry, but I missed the part where the the OP did any of the above, were you 1 of these fine, respectful officers ? Read the post, the person said they did nothing wrong, the police watched for 45 minutes, but then proceeded to give them the once over for waving at them. The police felt like they were being laughed at and made a big deal of it ! Who needs a kick in the ass and a head shake might not always be the 1 that is assumed guilty for no reason !

[Ebrand]

Gives very broad powers of inspection to officers.
The inspection is often used to to create reasonable grounds for a search.

Being hot tired sun burned and having dealt with ill mannered drunken people all day does not give officers cause to be rude.

I don't miss boat patrols at all.

Glad to be retired with that life. Be nice to the officer. He should be nice to you but still conduct his duties. Complain in writing to his bosses if you feel you have been mistreated. Or whine about it on the Internet.

There are 3 sides to every story. I would love to hear the officers versions of some of the interactions people are mentioning.

I loved being recorded when I was an officer. Always gave the boss a good view of how good of a job I was doing. I was recording you anyways.

Always laughed at how the office folks thought spending the weekend checking boaters was "fun".

An officer can board any vessel in Canadian waters to inspect for compliance with the Canada Shipping Act. No reasonable grounds needed. A search comes from developing reasonable grounds related to specific legislation ( Gaming and Liquor/ Fisheries stuff / Impaired or over 08 operation of a vessel/ Controlled Drug and Substance Act are all things I have developed RPG to search/arrest from boat inspections.

Good manners goes along ways.

[CanuckShooter]

Watching a person fishing for 45 min. then racing over because the person waved to them, obviously telling the cops that there stake out was blown, then proceeded to be idiots, IMO, I think the cops feelings were hurt because they wasted all that time for nothing !! If they watched him drinking or poaching they would not have waited that long to come and search ! Ya, always nice to see them !

If they sat there for 45 minutes spying, they were wasting time. OR someone had fingered the OP and they were trying to catch them in the act.:thinking-006:

Just curious, as it wasn't mentioned. Did they have a marked boat with lights and sirens?

[WildernessWanderer]

Glad the law was on the water doing their job. That lake is a magnet for drunken hoodlums, I'd think low oil prices should ease the pressure the police face up there?

[Deano]

This seems like a one sided story to me. Who the hell knows somebody is watching them for 45 mins and waits that long before pulling out their own binoculars to see who it is? I'm thinking most people wait a couple of mins and then pull them out to see who it is.
I find when you treat people with respect, you get treated with respect.

[Bobby B.]

This seems like a one sided story to me. Who the hell knows somebody is watching them for 45 mins and waits that long before pulling out their own binoculars to see who it is? I'm thinking most people wait a couple of mins and then pull them out to see who it is.
I find when you treat people with respect, you get treated with respect.

x1000

[Puma]

I just registered a new to me boat, they do not send the registration form anymore, just a 8.5 x 11 letter that says the color and hull number. It does not even list the make. No where does it say keep in the boat or produce on demand. It says the license number has to be marked on the sides not less than 75 mm high.

its marked "Important document -do not lose"

[Mike_W]

Yes I thought registration numbers were all you needed not a paper copy. Just your boaters card and photo id.??
I have a dry box with everything but have never been asked.
Also is this "shipping act" legit on a recreational vessel on a lake?

[Donkey Oatey]

Yes I thought registration numbers were all you needed not a paper copy. Just your boaters card and photo id.??
I have a dry box with everything but have never been asked.
Also is this "shipping act" legit on a recreational vessel on a lake?

yes the Canada Shipping Act covers recreational boating on all water in Canada. That is where the safety equipment requirements comes from. (paddles, bailing bucket, pfd, etc.)

[Mike_W]

yes the Canada Shipping Act covers recreational boating on all water in Canada. That is where the safety equipment requirements comes from. (paddles, bailing bucket, pfd, etc.)

So they can board and search your boat with no cause?

[Donkey Oatey]

So they can board and search your boat with no cause?

It's not with no cause. Yes they can board your vessel and inspect for appropriate equipment that is required. During that inspection they can find anything else that will give them grounds for other charges.

[Mike_W]

It's not with no cause. Yes they can board your vessel and inspect for appropriate equipment that is required. During that inspection they can find anything else that will give them grounds for other charges.

For the record I am not disagreeing this is a serious question. So say an officer boards my boat to inspect my safety equipment, does that give him ground to open every compartment or must he ask where said equipment is?
If I have a cooler in my boat does he have a right to "inspect" it?

Thank, Mike

[silverdoctor]

You know, if only there was a document on police code of conduct... Oh wait.

2.
RESPECT AND COURTESY
2.1
Members treat every person with respect and courtesy and do not engage in discrimination or harassment.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2014-281/page-14.html

There is also something called the Charter of Rights and Freedoms...

Search or seizure
8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.

[Astrocyte]

I did some looking around at the Canada Shipping Act on the Government of Canada Justice Laws website.

I found the follow which I assume applies to inspection laws:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/annualstatutes/2001_26/page-51.html#docCont

PART 10
PLEASURE CRAFT

Interpretation

Definitions

194. The definitions in this section apply in this Part.
“enforcement officer”
« agent de l’autorité »
“enforcement officer” means

(a) a member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police;
(b) a member of any harbour or river police force;
(c) a member of any provincial, county or municipal police force; and
(d) any person, or member of a class of persons, designated under subsection 196(1).
“inspector”
« inspecteur »
“inspector” means a pleasure craft safety inspector designated under subsection 195(1).

“licence”
« permis »
“licence” means a licence issued for a pleasure craft under this Part.

“Minister”
« ministre »
“Minister” means the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

Inspections

Designation

195. (1) The Minister may designate persons or classes of persons as pleasure craft safety inspectors.
Marginal note:Certificate

(2) The Minister must furnish every inspector with a certificate of designation as a pleasure craft safety inspector authorizing the inspector to carry out inspections under sections 196 and 198.
Marginal note:Immunity

(3) Inspectors are not personally liable for anything they do or omit to do in good faith under this Part.
Designation

196. (1) The Minister may designate persons or classes of persons as enforcement officers.
Inspections — general

(2) An enforcement officer may inspect a pleasure craft or any of its machinery or equipment for the purpose of ensuring compliance with any provision of this Part, other than section 197, or the regulations made under this Part, other than the regulations made under paragraph 207(1)(f), (g), (i) or (j).
Inspections — structural integrity

(3) An inspector may inspect a pleasure craft or any of its machinery or equipment for structural integrity or compliance with the regulations made under any of paragraphs 207(1)(f) to (m).

Powers

(4) Enforcement officers acting under subsection (2) and inspectors acting under subsection (3) may
(a) stop or board the craft at any reasonable time;
(b) direct any person to put into operation or cease operating any machinery or equipment on the craft;
(c) direct that the craft not be moved until the inspection is completed;
(d) direct any person to move the craft to a safe place if the officer or inspector has reasonable grounds to believe that it does not meet the requirements of this Part or the regulations made under this Part or exposes any person to serious danger, and direct that it not be operated until it meets those requirements or no longer exposes any person to serious danger; and
(e) direct any person to move the craft to a safe place if the officer or inspector has reasonable grounds to believe that the operator does not meet the requirements of the regulations made under this Part, and direct that the operator not operate it until the operator meets those requirements.

Duty to assist

(5) The owner or person in charge of a pleasure craft and every person on board shall
(a) give an officer or inspector all reasonable assistance to enable them to carry out an inspection and exercise any power conferred by this section; and
(b) produce to an officer or inspector any document, or provide them with any information, that the officer or inspector may reasonably require, for the administration of this Part or Part 5 (Navigation Services) or the regulations made under either of those Parts.

[Astrocyte]

And I found this in regards to inspections:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/annualstatutes/2001_26/page-54.html#docCont

PART 11
ENFORCEMENT — DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT

Interpretation

Definitions

210. The definitions in this section apply in this Part.
“Minister”
« ministre »
“Minister” means the Minister of Transport.

“relevant provision”
« disposition visée »
“relevant provision” means a provision of the Act or the regulations that the Minister is responsible for administering, other than a provision of the regulations made under subsection 136(2) in so far as it applies in respect of vessels that are not Canadian vessels or foreign vessels.

Inspections

Authorized persons and organizations

211. (1) A marine safety inspector referred to in section 11 or a person, classification society or other organization authorized to carry out inspections under section 12 may, for the purpose of ensuring compliance with a relevant provision, board any vessel or enter any premises or other place at any reasonable time and carry out any inspection that the inspector, person, classification society or other organization considers necessary and that the Minister has authorized them to carry out.

Living quarters

(2) Living quarters may not be entered under subsection (1) unless they are entered with the consent of the occupant or for the purpose of ensuring that the vessel complies with a relevant provision.

Stopping a vessel

(3) For the purpose of carrying out an inspection, a marine safety inspector may direct the master of a vessel to stop the vessel or proceed to the place that the inspector may select, and to moor, anchor or remain there for any reasonable period that the inspector may specify.

Inspections

(4) In carrying out an inspection, a marine safety inspector or, subject to any limitations set out under subsection 12(2) in their certificate of authorization, a person, classification society or other organization authorized to carry out inspections may
(a) direct any person to answer reasonable questions, provide reasonable assistance or put into operation or cease operating any machinery or equipment on a vessel being inspected;
(b) direct the master of a vessel to prohibit or limit access to any part of the vessel for as long as specified;
(c) direct the master of a vessel not to move the vessel until the inspection is completed;
(d) direct the master of a vessel to muster the crew or to carry out any emergency or safety procedure required by the regulations;
(e) direct any person who is at the place where the inspection is being carried out to produce for inspection, or for the purpose of making copies or taking extracts, any document that they are required to have under a relevant provision;
(f) take photographs and make video recordings and sketches;
(g) take or remove for analysis samples of any material or substance or any biological, chemical or physical agents or substances;
(h) use or cause to be used any computer system or data processing system at the place where the inspection is being carried out to examine any data contained in, or available to, the system;
(i) reproduce or cause to be reproduced any record from the data in the form of a print-out or other intelligible output;
(j) take any document or other thing from the place where the inspection is being carried out for examination or, in the case of a document, copying; and
(k) use or cause to be used any copying equipment in the place where the inspection is being carried out to make copies of any documents.

Disposition of samples

(5) A person who, or organization that, takes a sample under paragraph (4)(g) may dispose of it in any manner that the person or organization considers appropriate.
Marginal note:Return of documents and things

(6) Documents or other things taken under paragraph (4)(j) must be returned as soon as feasible after they are no longer required for the purpose for which they were taken.

[Vega21]

Seems pretty uncool but yah the RC's are usually dicks.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

I personally think we need more enforcement on the water.

[supra22]

I live on a big lake close to Edmonton and watch the parade of "citydiots" every weekend. A lot of people come out and treat the lake with a total lack of respect, littering, drinking and illegally fishing. It me ****es me off so I am all for enforcement of the laws and seeing a police & F&W presence on the water. At the same time though, the RCMP need to conduct themselves in a professional manner while doing so. I have often ran into them and or F&W on my lake and surrounding areas and had no issues, that said though, there are enough of RCMP that arrogant to say least and the way some of them come across where they treat you like you are guilty of something does not sit well with me either. The police need to remember that they are not better than everyone else and that they are public servants.

[FishHunterPro]

[QUOTE=Kokanee9;2875487]They asked to see your boat insurance?

Sure did, not a big deal maybe to make sure it's not stolen ?

Do you even need to have boat insurance ? I don't believe you do .

[FishHunterPro]

I just registered a new to me boat, they do not send the registration form anymore, just a 8.5 x 11 letter that says the color and hull number. It does not even list the make. No where does it say keep in the boat or produce on demand. It says the license number has to be marked on the sides not less than 75 mm high.

its marked "Important document -do not lose"

It does say right on it to make a copy of it and keep it with you at all times on the boat.

[32-40win]

They are allowed to check out your required safety items on the boat.
You don't need to carry the registration papers, but, the number has to be displayed on the boat.

[xring_assassin]

I've been checked on Sylvan 2x by fish and wildlife and 1x by RCMP this year. All times really a pleasant visit actually. Considering that I've only been out on Sylvan 6 times this year I would probably be safe in assuming that there is some well founded concern or reason for the stepped up enforcement presence.

Personally I'm glad to see them out - look at the SRD survey results on the fish populations on that lake and you'll see why I'm glad.

Man those new F&W seadoos sure rip!

[xring_assassin]

So they can board and search your boat with no cause?

Different laws the second you're on the water, technically I believe that you aren't in Canada anymore...so yes I believe they can...

[Bigdad013]

You don't need to carry the registration papers, but, the number has to be displayed on the boat.

Actually you do have to have the registration papers on the boat..

[Bigdad013]

Was at the shuswap this weekend, and 2 of my buddies were pulled over on the water. The both have high performance boats and are loud. So they were pulled over for noise. Now both these guys know the restrictions for the exhaust which they quickly educated the officers on. But these two rcmp cops, really wanted to write a ticket. So now they said you need a dozen flares onboard, which they replied no you don't. The officers said if you are more than 1 nautical mile from shore you do, as he points over the lake and says` That looks like more than a mile to me' which my buddy responds as he slowly turns 180 degrees and said, well this shore is only 100 yards. Then the cop was thumbing through his his little book and said you need a paddle, to which he said no we don't. We have an anchor. There was one more attempt which I can't remember and they told the cops to have a nice day and pushed them away from there boat, but it drives me nuts that these guys don't know the rules. Unfortunately, some people I guess would just accept they're word and take the ticket.

[waterhawk]

Different laws the second you're on the water, technically I believe that you aren't in Canada anymore...so yes I believe they can...

This is a joke, right. On a lake in Alberta and you are technically not in Canada anymore. Really.

[CK Angler]

Was at the shuswap this weekend, and 2 of my buddies were pulled over on the water. The both have high performance boats and are loud. So they were pulled over for noise. Now both these guys know the restrictions for the exhaust which they quickly educated the officers on. But these two rcmp cops, really wanted to write a ticket. So now they said you need a dozen flares onboard, which they replied no you don't. The officers said if you are more than 1 nautical mile from shore you do, as he points over the lake and says` That looks like more than a mile to me' which my buddy responds as he slowly turns 180 degrees and said, well this shore is only 100 yards. Then the cop was thumbing through his his little book and said you need a paddle, to which he said no we don't. We have an anchor. There was one more attempt which I can't remember and they told the cops to have a nice day and pushed them away from there boat, but it drives me nuts that these guys don't know the rules. Unfortunately, some people I guess would just accept they're word and take the ticket.



Had a similar incident, buddies checking me and seemed to be looking for a reason to give me a ticket. Checks to make sure I have a flashlight, noise maker, floating rope ect. I had the typically kit you buy at Canadian tire which has everything, so I show him that, he opens it and pulls out the flash light and goes "do you have batteries for this flash light?"

I look at him like, are you kidding me buddy! Luckily I kept batteries in my boat for my iPod dock, showed him the batteries, put them in the flashlight and not so politely told him to have a nice day.

[xring_assassin]

This is a joke, right. On a lake in Alberta and you are technically not in Canada anymore. Really.

Fairly certain that the rules for "water bodies" are international...I've always been baffled as to why the fish limits etc and fishing license aren't also international if that's true. I might be wrong because we were also talking about a lake in a park at that moment. I know that you can't take a quad or skidoo onto a lake in winter in provincial or national park because it means you'd have to briefly ride said quad or sled on park property, but once on the lake it's perfectly legal...

The rules and laws are confusing to me where international/national/provincial intersect. I just know what I need to have in the boat and study the fishing regs routinely. I've never had a problem being checked yet...

[Xbolt7mm]

Actually you do have to have the registration papers on the boat..

This is correct

[Xbolt7mm]

Was at the shuswap this weekend, and 2 of my buddies were pulled over on the water. The both have high performance boats and are loud. So they were pulled over for noise. Now both these guys know the restrictions for the exhaust which they quickly educated the officers on. But these two rcmp cops, really wanted to write a ticket. So now they said you need a dozen flares onboard, which they replied no you don't. The officers said if you are more than 1 nautical mile from shore you do, as he points over the lake and says` That looks like more than a mile to me' which my buddy responds as he slowly turns 180 degrees and said, well this shore is only 100 yards. Then the cop was thumbing through his his little book and said you need a paddle, to which he said no we don't. We have an anchor. There was one more attempt which I can't remember and they told the cops to have a nice day and pushed them away from there boat, but it drives me nuts that these guys don't know the rules. Unfortunately, some people I guess would just accept they're word and take the ticket.

Your friends are why they have cops on lakes, loud boats are brutal, the sound carries, if they where courtious and said sorry for having a boat that ruined everyone else's fun around the lake, then they might have left them alone, hope the hit a submerged log

[waterhawk]

Fairly certain that the rules for "water bodies" are international...I've always been baffled as to why the fish limits etc and fishing license aren't also international if that's true. I might be wrong because we were also talking about a lake in a park at that moment. I know that you can't take a quad or skidoo onto a lake in winter in provincial or national park because it means you'd have to briefly ride said quad or sled on park property, but once on the lake it's perfectly legal...

The rules and laws are confusing to me where international/national/provincial intersect. I just know what I need to have in the boat and study the fishing regs routinely. I've never had a problem being checked yet...

All AO members clearly have a right to join in any discussion. I think, though, members should not say things about the law unless they are absolutely sure they are correct. I can say for certainty that fresh water bodies inside Canada's borders are not international waters.

[Bigdad013]

Your friends are why they have cops on lakes, loud boats are brutal, the sound carries, if they where courtious and said sorry for having a boat that ruined everyone else's fun around the lake, then they might have left them alone, hope the hit a submerged log

Really, thats why cops are on the lake. Not morons drinking, partying, don't have a clue what they are doing. I would have a hundred of them on the water than some moron blasting his club music 100 yards out from shore getting drunk with his pals then driving off with a 5 foot wake.
Let me tell you, these guys know more about safety and boat performance and respect than you will ever have a grasp on. As a matter of fact, they went to the trouble of hiring a professional out of California to come up and train them on exactly how their boats operate and handle as well as countless other safety situations, this was a week long course at their own expense.
And if they are legal, I guess your argument is bunk. If they change the noise bylaws they will conform.
As for wishing them an accident on the water, are you not just the nicest guy ever?

[VanIsleGuy]

A while ago when I was younger and dumber I was fishing on a dinghy from my parents boat on the ocean. Didn't have an actual crab calliper so we used a $50 bill and estimated an extra half an inch. RCMP came by, told us there could be $800 in fines for no flashlight, bailing bucket, buoyant heaving line, and one other thing, I forget. They looked in our cooler and found 2 crabs that were just a hair undersize. Told us to throw them back and have a nice day. Glad they educated us and we were prepared the next time we went out. Never had a bad experience.

[Astrocyte]

I understand some people need to flex their muscles in the form of expensive boats but for me personally "being loud and very respectful" is an example of a oxymoronic statement. I hope there are boat loads of cops out there checking everyone especially in problem locations like Sylvan.

[THERICARDO]

Your friends are why they have cops on lakes, loud boats are brutal, the sound carries, if they where courtious and said sorry for having a boat that ruined everyone else's fun around the lake, then they might have left them alone, hope the hit a submerged log



What a dick thing to say when you don't even know these people... They obviously know rules if they have a good grasp of them...just because I buy a Mastercraft x45 and its loud isn't the reason rcmp and CO are on the water... its to catch people drinking and poaching. Just because someone can afford a nice boat doesn't mean they don't follow the rules... pretty ******* thing to assume buddy..

Hoping they hit a submerged log says more about your character than its does about guys with loud boat...

[CK Angler]

Your friends are why they have cops on lakes, loud boats are brutal, the sound carries, if they where courtious and said sorry for having a boat that ruined everyone else's fun around the lake, then they might have left them alone, hope the hit a submerged log

Lol ladies and gentlemen we have ourselves a winner, keep on keepin on partner. Your a real beaut :thinking-006:

[slivers86]

I was out on sylvan today when I noticed a boat approaching then slowed to a crawl about 1000 yards out or so and proceeded to watch us for about 45min, I could see the binos reflect the light a few times so I pulled mine out took a peek and gave a quick wave, instantly they jumped up on plain and came over. These were not conservation officers but RCMP, two gentlemen that asked to see my boating licence, insurence and saftey stuff all of which I had......then the grilling started "hot day out here how many beer do u have on the boat?" And "you should hand them over now so we don't have to go through everything" we laughed but they pushed it again then again. Next they asked about any illegal catches aboard the the boat we said no but the grilling started again and we were warned a co would be contacted to look over any suspicious catches, after we re affirmed we had no fish aboard the boat so.......... We were boarded all my compartments gone through then with a quick "sorry for the inconvenience" they were on their way. Are they allowed to search my boat for no reason ? I was also warned about my small all in one saftey bucket, it's a bailer with some roap, flashlight and a whistle and how in the future it won't be allowed? They were rude, pushy and all around unprofessional.

Simple answer is no. They are not allowed to search your vessel without a warrant or consent. Now if at any time, you said 'okay, or yes' to them suggesting a search, than consent would be implied. Seem like a bunch of *******s. This is why I stick to fishing alpine creeks and rivers. Nobody bothers me out there.

[Donkey Oatey]

Simple answer is no. They are not allowed to search your vessel without a warrant or consent. Now if at any time, you said 'okay, or yes' to them suggesting a search, than consent would be implied. Seem like a bunch of *******s. This is why I stick to fishing alpine creeks and rivers. Nobody bothers me out there.

Better check the Canada Shipping Act again slivers86. They can.

[fish99]

[QUOTE=Kokanee9;2875487]They asked to see your boat insurance?

Sure did, not a big deal maybe to make sure it's not stolen ?

do you need flash light was checked last week at pigeon never asked for a flash light ??/















































///

[slivers86]

Better check the Canada Shipping Act again slivers86. They can.

Section 8, Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
It's important... its why cops can't go through your car, enter your home, etc without warrant.

CSA seems to indicate you can be boarded for means of vessel inspection, however, it wouldn't give them the right to open any hatches not related to their safety inspection, such as a live well, etc.

[Astrocyte]

The Canada Shipping Act mentions looking for safety equipment/meeting requirements of the pleasure craft so stuff like anchor, having enough life jackets and so on. It also mentions the person on the vessel must answer the questions. Noted by:

Inspections

(4) In carrying out an inspection, a marine safety inspector or, subject to any limitations set out under subsection 12(2) in their certificate of authorization, a person, classification society or other organization authorized to carry out inspections may
(a) direct any person to answer reasonable questions, provide reasonable assistance or put into operation or cease operating any machinery or equipment being inspected;

So from that it, at least seems, that if an officer says do you have lifejackets on board..."yes I do officer", "okay can you open the bin for me". Then they get to check. I suppose they can word the question in a way that would allow them to open anything as well.

I suppose as well if an individual is getting antsy or argumentative with having the officer on board it could be construed as strange behavior and thus warrants search. I am not sure though.


Officers are covered by more than just the Canada Shipping Act. I looked for Fish and Wildlife officers for example and found this info. It seems officers, of varying types, are covered quite well by Canadian and Provincial Laws.

https://www.solgps.alberta.ca/PROGRAMS_AND_SERVICES/PUBLIC_SECURITY/Pages/FishandWildlifeOfficers.aspx


This is from the Fisheries Act

I just copied the inspection portion.

POWERS OF FISHERY OFFICERS AND
FISHERY GUARDIANS

Inspection 49. (1) Subject to subsection (2), for the
purpose of ensuring compliance with this Act
and the regulations, a fishery officer or fishery
guardian may enter and inspect any place, including
any premises, vessel or vehicle, in
which the officer or guardian believes on reasonable
grounds there is any work or undertaking
or any fish or other thing in respect of
which this Act or the regulations apply and
may

(a) open any container that the officer or
guardian believes on reasonable grounds
contains any fish or other thing in respect of
which this Act or the regulations apply;
(b) examine any fish or other thing that the
officer or guardian finds and take samples of
it;
(c) conduct any tests or analyses and take
any measurements; and
(d) require any person to produce for examination
or copying any records, books of account
or other documents that the officer or
guardian believes on reasonable grounds
contain information that is relevant to the administration
of this Act or the regulations.

Operation of
data processing
systems and
copying
equipment
(1.1) In carrying out an inspection of a place
under subsection (1), a fishery officer or fishery
guardian may,
(a) use or cause to be used any data processing
system at the place to examine any data
contained in or available to the data processing
system;
(b) reproduce any record or cause it to be reproduced
from the data in the form of a
print-out or other intelligible output and remove
the print-out or other output for examination
or copying; and
(c) use or cause to be used any copying
equipment at the place to make copies of any
record, book of account or other document.

Duty to assist (1.2) The owner or person in charge of a
place that is inspected by a fishery officer or
fishery guardian under subsection (1) and every
person found in the place shall
(a) give the officer or guardian all reasonable
assistance to enable the officer or
guardian to carry out the inspection and exercise
any power conferred by this section; and

Obligation

(b) provide the officer or guardian with any
information relevant to the administration of
this Act or the regulations that the officer or
guardian may reasonably require.

Disposition of
samples
(1.3) A fishery officer or fishery guardian
who takes a sample under paragraph (1)(b) may
dispose of it in any manner that the officer or
guardian considers appropriate.

Warrant required
to enter
dwelling-house

(2) Where any place, premises, vessel or vehicle
referred to in subsection (1) is a dwellinghouse,
a fishery officer or fishery guardian may
not enter that dwelling-house without the consent
of the occupant except under the authority
of a warrant issued under subsection (3).

Authority to
issue warrant
(3) Where on ex parte application a justice
of the peace is satisfied by information on oath
(a) that the conditions for entry described in
subsection (1) exist in relation to a dwellinghouse,
(b) that entry to the dwelling-house is necessary
for any purpose relating to the administration
or enforcement of this Act, and
(c) that entry to the dwelling-house has been
refused or that there are reasonable grounds
for believing that entry thereto will be refused,
the justice of the peace may issue a warrant under
his hand authorizing the fishery officer or
fishery guardian named therein to enter that
dwelling-house subject to such conditions as
may be specified in the warrant.

(4) [Repealed, 1991, c. 1, s. 13]
R.S., 1985, c. F-14, s. 49; R.S., 1985, c. 31 (1st Supp.), s.
35; 1991, c. 1, s. 13.

Search 49.1 (1) A fishery officer with a warrant issued
under subsection (2) may enter and search
any place, including any premises, vessel or vehicle,
in which the officer believes on reasonable
grounds there is
(a) any work or undertaking that is being or
has been carried on in contravention of this
Act or the regulations;
(b) any fish or other thing by means of or in
relation to which this Act or the regulations
have been contravened; or
(c) any fish or other thing that will afford
evidence in respect of a contravention of this
Act or the regulations.

Authority to
issue warrant
(2) Where on ex parte application a justice
of the peace is satisfied by information on oath
that there are reasonable grounds to believe that
there is in any place referred to in subsection
(1) any fish or other thing referred to in subsection
(1), the justice may issue a warrant authorizing
the fishery officer named in the warrant
to enter and search the place for the thing subject
to any conditions that may be specified in
the warrant.

Where warrant
not necessary
(3) Notwithstanding subsection (1), a fishery
officer may exercise the power of search referred
to in that subsection without a warrant
issued under subsection (2) if the conditions for
obtaining the warrant exist but by reason of exigent
circumstances it would not be practical to
obtain the warrant.

Exigent
circumstances
(4) For the purposes of subsection (3), exigent
circumstances include circumstances in
which the delay necessary to obtain the warrant
would result in danger to human life or safety
or the loss or destruction of evidence.

Powers during
search
(5) In carrying out a search of a place under
this section, a fishery officer may exercise any
power mentioned in subsection 49(1), (1.1) or
(1.3).
R.S., 1985, c. 31 (1st Supp.), s. 35; 1991, c. 1, s. 14.

Arrest
50. Any fishery officer, fishery guardian or
peace officer may arrest without warrant a person
who that fishery officer, guardian or peace
officer believes, on reasonable grounds, has
committed an offence against this Act or any of
the regulations, or whom he finds committing
or preparing to commit an offence against this
Act or any of the regulations.
R.S., c. F-14, s. 36.

Seizure of
fishing vessel,
etc.
51. A fishery officer or fishery guardian
may seize any fishing vessel, vehicle, fish or
other thing that the officer or guardian believes
on reasonable grounds was obtained by or used
in the commission of an offence under this Act
or will afford evidence of an offence under this
Act, including any fish that the officer or
guardian believes on reasonable grounds
(a) was caught, killed, processed, transported,
purchased, sold or possessed in contravention
of this Act or the regulations; or

Fisheries — June 9, 2015
40
(b) has been intermixed with fish referred to
in paragraph (a).
R.S., 1985, c. F-14, s. 51; 1991, c. 1, s. 15.

Entry by fishery
officer
52. In the discharge of his duties, any fishery
officer, fishery guardian or other person accompanying
him or authorized to such effect by
the fishery officer may enter on and pass
through or over private property without being
liable for trespass.
R.S., c. F-14, s. 39.

Disputes
53. Disputes between persons relating to
fishing limits or claims to fishery stations, or
relating to the position and use of nets and other
fishing apparatus, shall be settled by the local
fishery officer.
R.S., c. F-14, s. 40.

Distances
between
fisheries
54. Fishery officers may determine or prescribe
the distance between each and every
fishery and shall forthwith remove any fishing
apparatus or materials that the owner neglects
or refuses to remove, and the owner is liable for
a contravention of this Act and for the cost of
removing the apparatus and materials and any
damages that may result therefrom.
R.S., c. F-14, s. 41.

Boundaries of
estuary fishing
55. The Minister, or any fishery officer duly
authorized by the Minister, has power to define
the boundaries of tidal waters and estuaries and
to designate what is the mouth of any river,
stream or other water for the purposes of this
Act.

I get confused with legal jargon but from what I understand they can search. What I also understand is they cannot enter the "dwelling-house", so I guess if you have a sailboat or big yacht type deal (I guess?) they cannot enter the living quarters. Again, legal jargon is not my thing I just enjoy researching material so maybe someone else could decipher it further.

[CK Angler]

^^ what you have to pay attention to is the wording on reasonable grounds.

i am by no means an expert in law, but on reasonable grounds IMO means they have to have some type of reason to search your boat, they can't just at random jump in and start going through your compartments, unless you have given consent.

I have been stopped numerous times in Manitoba, Ontario & Alberta, never once have they searched my boat or the boat I was in, only one time they tried and that was here in Alberta. I commented earlier how they tried to trick me into giving consent, I said no and he did not then search my boat.
Usuallly it is standard routine. Do you have a license? Any fish in the live well? Booze? Safety gear? Ect. Just be cool with them if you have nothing to hide, half the time they are decent people and you can have some good conversations and get some fishing info out of them lol

[Astrocyte]

^^ what you have to pay attention to is the wording on reasonable grounds.

i am by no means an expert in law, but on reasonable grounds IMO means they have to have some type of reason to search your boat, they can't just at random jump in and start going through your compartments, unless you have given consent.

I have been stopped numerous times in Manitoba, Ontario & Alberta, never once have they searched my boat or the boat I was in, only one time they tried and that was here in Alberta. I commented earlier how they tried to trick me into giving consent, I said no and he did not then search my boat.
Usuallly it is standard routine. Do you have a license? Any fish in the live well? Booze? Safety gear? Ect. Just be cool with them if you have nothing to hide, half the time they are decent people and you can have some good conversations and get some fishing info out of them lol

Yeah pretty much. I wonder if just being in the boat and on the water is grounds for search. I do not know. The way I think of it is "you are on a boat in the water therefore you must know there are regulations therefore you should be able to prove your compliance with those regulations". Or something along those lines. Like I said I do not know. It just much much easier just to say yes yes no no yes to questions rather than get defensive and turn a 2 minute conversation into a drawn out inspection. And you are right, just talking to them can lead to some good fishing spots.

If I were a cop and someone was showing attitude or hesitation towards myself being there I would take that behavior as something to look into. Those who are law abiding generally do not have an issue with laws being put forth and checked for compliance. I would assume that those who do not take well to laws or compliance would be the opposite and show hesitation and attitude. Personally I have a big issue with people believing they are above the law/laws should not apply to them...so have at er officers.

[Bigdad013]

^^ what you have to pay attention to is the wording on reasonable grounds.

i am by no means an expert in law, but on reasonable grounds IMO means they have to have some type of reason to search your boat, they can't just at random jump in and start going through your compartments, unless you have given consent.

I have been stopped numerous times in Manitoba, Ontario & Alberta, never once have they searched my boat or the boat I was in, only one time they tried and that was here in Alberta. I commented earlier how they tried to trick me into giving consent, I said no and he did not then search my boat.
Usuallly it is standard routine. Do you have a license? Any fish in the live well? Booze? Safety gear? Ect. Just be cool with them if you have nothing to hide, half the time they are decent people and you can have some good conversations and get some fishing info out of them lol


X2
No legal expert either, but if they do stop you and ask to board to see your safety gear, you can refuse, you just have to show them, they don't need to board.
Now if they see beer cans rolling around, that would give them probable cause. I have been stopped and asked if I have booze onboard and responded yes, we had a couple of beers for a shore lunch, they had no problem with that, now if we had a couple of cases it might have been a different story. All depends on how you treat them and if they have had a good day as well.

[CMichaud]

Re registration, I think there is a misuse of the term "registered". Please let me know if I am out to lunch but the TC Safe Boating Guide states:

LICENSING AND REGISTRATION
A Canadian pleasure craft may be licensed or registered.

Pleasure Craft Licence

If you operate or keep your boat mostly in Canada, and it is powered by
one or more motors adding up to 7.5 kW (10 hp) or more, you must get it
licensed, unless you register it. You must also license dinghies or tenders you carry aboard or tow behind a larger boat.

A pleasure craft licence is a document giving your boat a unique licence
number that is valid for 10 years. The Pleasure Craft Licensing System
allows Search and Rescue personnel to access information about your boat
24 hours a day, seven days a week in the event of an emergency. This could
mean the difference between life and death! If your boat does not need a
pleasure craft licence, you can choose to get one for safety reasons.

Is a Licence a Proof of Ownership?
A pleasure craft licence does not prove ownership. When entering another
country, be sure to have proof of ownership for your boat along with its
pleasure craft licence, including documents for dinghies or tenders aboard
or towed behind a larger boat. Not having the proper documents on board
can result in delays or trouble clearing customs, or even a fine.

Why Should You Register Your Boat?
Registration gives you some important benefits, which include:
• proof of ownership (legal title) for your boat;
• the right to fly the Canadian flag;
• a unique name and official number for your boat; and
• the right to use your boat as security for a marine mortgage.

Once you get your pleasure craft licence, keep a copy on board.

[mooseknuckle]

I've found denying consent to search usually creates grounds for search.

[nicecurr]

I've found denying consent to search usually creates grounds for search.Please explain......I think you are dead wrong. There is no suggestion of guilt because of your denial or the fact you were fishing.

[Smokey]

I was out on sylvan today when I noticed a boat approaching then slowed to a crawl about 1000 yards out or so and proceeded to watch us for about 45min, I could see the binos reflect the light a few times so I pulled mine out took a peek and gave a quick wave, instantly they jumped up on plain and came over. These were not conservation officers but RCMP, two gentlemen that asked to see my boating licence, insurence and saftey stuff all of which I had......then the grilling started "hot day out here how many beer do u have on the boat?" And "you should hand them over now so we don't have to go through everything" we laughed but they pushed it again then again. Next they asked about any illegal catches aboard the the boat we said no but the grilling started again and we were warned a co would be contacted to look over any suspicious catches, after we re affirmed we had no fish aboard the boat so.......... We were boarded all my compartments gone through then with a quick "sorry for the inconvenience" they were on their way. Are they allowed to search my boat for no reason ? I was also warned about my small all in one saftey bucket, it's a bailer with some roap, flashlight and a whistle and how in the future it won't be allowed? They were rude, pushy and all around unprofessional.

I would ask them to inform me how they can conduct searches and tell them I will be video taping the ordeal and will issue a formal complaint through my lawyer.nNot sure if would make a difference.

[Dean2]

It is a lot more effective to file a formal complaint for the officers behaviour than it is to put the information on here. If people would actually do something effective after being rudely or poorly treated the behaviour would stop. Senior officers take these kinds of complaints very seriously, They care a great deal about the image of the force and they will definitely address it with the officers. A few of these types of complaints and that officer is off the force.

[Xbolt7mm]

Lol ladies and gentlemen we have ourselves a winner, keep on keepin on partner. Your a real beaut :thinking-006:

Really,,,,how often do you see a boat roaring around a lake with their music cranked right up when there is no booze involved, almost never, cuz sober most people will respect the ability for other people to enjoy the lake too. And a log won't hurt anything but the boat leg. Glad to see you condone drunk driving,, that's making the same conclusions of you that you made of me. Hope your kid isn't water skiing or swimming in a lake with people like that driving a boat. Cuz that stuff happens all the time. Hate if you want

[Kim473]

If there are fishing rods in the boat, then resonable grounds for checking compartments is there. I could be wrong but it makes sense to me.
I've been checked a few times at calling lake on the way out to the hiway and they checked the boat for fish even tho our fish were in a pail in the truck. Nothing to hide here!

[fluxcore]

Lots of good onfo here guys, it really comes down to knowing your rights after all a day on the water can be ruined quickly by harassment.

[Astrocyte]

Yeah harrassment can ruin a day, I am not sure how officers can keep their cool with civilians who do not like LEOs. I could not do it. One's day can also be ruined by turning a 2 minute yes and no have a nice day sir conversation into a heated debate with an officer of the law over why that officer is choosing to do their inspections as a person sits in their tackled fishing vessel on a lake with restrictions in place. I hope all of those who break the law, want to break the law, and those who wish laws should not apply have their day ruined by an officer.

[waterhawk]

I don't understand why there would be any reluctance to allow a Conservation Officer to search your boat unless you have something to hide. All AO members abide by the law, right. Why are we wasting time trying to figure out what rights COs have to search. What I see here is some guys would like to defy authority by playing lawyer. Go ahead and see how it works out for you.

[Talking moose]

I don't understand why there would be any reluctance to allow a Conservation Officer to search your boat unless you have something to hide. All AO members abide by the law, right. Why are we wasting time trying to figure out what rights COs have to search. What I see here is some guys would like to defy authority by playing lawyer. Go ahead and see how it works out for you.

Because it won't stop there.... Keep giving an inch, keep taking a mile.... If you don't stand up for your own rights, after awhile you won't have any. That's how it all starts. People died fighting so you could have rights. Don't throw that all away by spitting on their grave. It's the principle of it.

[nicecurr]

Because it won't stop there.... Keep giving an inch, keep taking a mile.... If you don't stand up for your own rights, after awhile you won't have any. That's how it all starts. People died fighting so you could have rights. Don't throw that all away by spitting on their grave. It's the principle of it.Well said....and in this day and age absolutely necessary.

[Dean2]

I don't understand why there would be any reluctance to allow a Conservation Officer to search your boat unless you have something to hide. All AO members abide by the law, right. Why are we wasting time trying to figure out what rights COs have to search. What I see here is some guys would like to defy authority by playing lawyer. Go ahead and see how it works out for you.

"I have nothing to hide so of course I will wear my gold star just like the nice officials have asked me to.":snapoutofit::snapoutofit:

Man you have to be a real babe in the woods to believe this kind of crap. Trusting the police who are already intentionally ignoring the laws that govern us is a road to disaster. Thin edge of the wedge. It is bad enough the U.S. is giving up their hard fought and in many cases Constitutional rights left right and centre in the name of "National Security", there is no reason for us to fall for the same propaganda. Lots of my immediate family gave their lives so this crap doesn't happen in Canada. The least you can do is stand up and defend yourself where there is no danger of getting shot for doing it.

[waterhawk]

Because it won't stop there.... Keep giving an inch, keep taking a mile.... If you don't stand up for your own rights, after awhile you won't have any. That's how it all starts. People died fighting so you could have rights. Don't throw that all away by spitting on their grave. It's the principle of it.

So maybe you can summarize for me what are your rights regarding search and seizure in a watercraft on a freshwater lake in Alberta. The posts on this thread would indicate there is a lot of confusion on the matter. My grandfather fought in WW1 and father in WW2. I know they would have been shocked if they were told that one of the reasons they were fighting is so guys, who did not even know for sure there rights were being infringed, could refuse to allow a Conservation Officer to look in their cooler. If you want to get all indignant about your legal rights being infringed, you should at least know what the law is.

[58thecat]

I don't understand why there would be any reluctance to allow a Conservation Officer to search your boat unless you have something to hide. All AO members abide by the law, right. Why are we wasting time trying to figure out what rights COs have to search. What I see here is some guys would like to defy authority by playing lawyer. Go ahead and see how it works out for you.

Exactly, be nice, allow the search, show your licence etc, thank them for looking after our resources from the scum bag poachers and move on. Been approached a few times, had a friendly conversation, shuck hands and went about our days, sounds easy to me unless you got something to hide...

[Talking moose]

So maybe you can summarize for me what are your rights regarding search and seizure in a watercraft on a freshwater lake in Alberta. The posts on this thread would indicate there is a lot of confusion on the matter. My grandfather fought in WW1 and father in WW2. I know they would have been shocked if they were told that one of the reasons they were fighting is so guys, who did not even know for sure there rights were being infringed, could refuse to allow a Conservation Officer to look in their cooler. If you want to get all indignant about your legal rights being infringed, you should at least know what the law is.

I'll use an extreme example for you. Like I said, this is an extreme example......
The year is 2025. Cops are going door to door looking for weed in people's homes. After going through every nook and cranny in your home, ( your wife's sexy panty drawer, your medical cabinet with your 5 year supply of Viagra, ) they then leave your house in shambles and head to your neighbours....your left to clean up the mess and feeling very violated... Keep rolling over for these little infringements of your rights though, if that's what you want in the future.(less rights)....that's how you do it. And by the way, ILLEGAL search and seizure is ILLEGAL!!!!!!!! So quit assisting criminals to break our laws!!!!!

[waterhawk]

I'll use an extreme example for you. Like I said, this is an extreme example......
The year is 2025. Cops are going door to door looking for weed in people's homes. After going through every nook and cranny in your home, ( your wife's sexy panty drawer, your medical cabinet with your 5 year supply of Viagra, ) they then leave your house in shambles and head to your neighbours....your left to clean up the mess and feeling very violated... Keep rolling over for these little infringements of your rights though, if that's what you want in the future.(less rights)....that's how you do it. And by the way, ILLEGAL search and seizure is ILLEGAL!!!!!!!! So quit assisting criminals to break our laws!!!!!

Talking Moose: I enjoy your posts and don't want to get in an argument with you. I understand and appreciate the need to have restraints on how Police Officers and Conservation Officers can deal with citizens. It is fundamental to a free society. The thing is if you don't know what your rights are, you can't insist on them being respected. Lots of guys here are all up in arms on maybe the fish cops are overstepping their legal bounds in how they are enforcing the law. These guys feel that it is extremely important to hold the authorities to the letter of the law regarding those rights. Those guys are ,however, to lazy to figure out exactly what those rights are. I don't feel the need to figure out the rights of Conservation Officers to enforce boat safety laws and angling laws. I will answer their questions and allow them to inspect my boat. I want them out there and am not going to hold them up by playing lawyer.

[Astrocyte]

I'll use an extreme example for you. Like I said, this is an extreme example......
The year is 2025. Cops are going door to door looking for weed in people's homes. After going through every nook and cranny in your home, ( your wife's sexy panty drawer, your medical cabinet with your 5 year supply of Viagra, ) they then leave your house in shambles and head to your neighbours....your left to clean up the mess and feeling very violated... Keep rolling over for these little infringements of your rights though, if that's what you want in the future.(less rights)....that's how you do it. And by the way, ILLEGAL search and seizure is ILLEGAL!!!!!!!! So quit assisting criminals to break our laws!!!!!

Why use an extreme example and not a realistic one? An officer is looking for drunks, liars, and poachers. They are not there plotting their next move to push for an Orwelian society. They are checking a cooler and storage bins for alcohol and to make sure you know the rules of owning a boat. Owning a boat for fishing or otherwise is a privilege not a right. There are rules to owning and operating that boat, if one cannot prove they are competent enough to adhere to those rules then tickets and further action should be warranted.

I would be assisting criminals if I did not allow an officer to search and do their job. If they do not do their job the criminals do get away.

[Dean2]

Why use an extreme example and not a realistic one? An officer is looking for drunks, liars, and poachers. They are not there plotting their next move to push for an Orwelian society. They are checking a cooler and storage bins for alcohol and to make sure you know the rules of owning a boat. Owning a boat for fishing or otherwise is a privilege not a right. There are rules to owning and operating that boat, if one cannot prove they are competent enough to adhere to those rules then tickets and further action should be warranted.

I would be assisting criminals if I did not allow an officer to search and do their job. If they do not do their job the criminals do get away.

You want an actual example of what your type of thinking leads to, "High River RCMP Seize Guns while entering locked houses with no warrants". Tell me again the RCMP don't have an agenda of their own. I agree, people need to learn what their rights are in order to best protect them, but at a minimum they don't need to provide easy consent when asked.

[waterhawk]

Precisely. RCMP broke into houses, riffled through those poor peoples property, damaged property and stole their possessions illegally.
What happens when you do that? And what happens when they do that?
Do you think the RCMP that did this will end up in jail?
And talk about knocking people when they're already down. Heck they
weren't even allowed access to their own homes either whilst they were stealing.

Section 8 of our charter says we have a right against unreasonable search and seizure. However there are plenty of laws which serve to erode that right routinely, including hunting / fishing laws and boat inspections.

Then look at C-51. And if that ain't bad enough you may be alarmed to find out that the province / government can seize any property belonging to you,
i.e. house, boat, vehicle etc., just because they have a suspicion a crime has been committed. You don't need to be charged, you don't have an opportunity to defend yourself or go to court and you don't have to be guilty of any crime,
or have any right to obtain your property back even if it can be proved you
didn't commit any crime. How has this happened? Because we have allowed it to.

Now if every cop and politician was honest, unbiased then no problem. However as we know, this is not the case. People have their own agendas.

The more we walk around with blinkers on and drink beer whilst saying "who cares about this small item of our personal freedoms being eroded", the more we help create a police state. Stand up for your privacy and freedom.

It is perfectly possible to catch poachers, have safe boating, not be detained moving from A to B with a boat and not lose our privacy and freedom at the same time. We only have to look to history to see why in the past excessive interference from the state is a bad idea.


You have passion for this issue. I seems it is shared by other members. My question is does that passion translate into actually doing something difficult like figuring out what your rights are. Show me that you have done that and I will accept that you really care about your rights. Lots of guys here seem to think the best was to protect their rights is to remain ignorant as to what they are and simply argue and be rude to Conservation Officers.

[Bushrat]

You have passion for this issue. I seems it is shared by other members. My question is does that passion translate into actually doing something difficult like figuring out what your rights are. Show me that you have done that and I will accept that you really care about your rights. Lots of guys here seem to think the best was to protect their rights is to remain ignorant as to what they are and simply argue and be rude to Conservation Officers.

Aint that the truth...

[THERICARDO]

Really,,,,how often do you see a boat roaring around a lake with their music cranked right up when there is no booze involved, almost never, cuz sober most people will respect the ability for other people to enjoy the lake too. And a log won't hurt anything but the boat leg. Glad to see you condone drunk driving,, that's making the same conclusions of you that you made of me. Hope your kid isn't water skiing or swimming in a lake with people like that driving a boat. Cuz that stuff happens all the time. Hate if you want



I do it all the time sunshine and guess what?? Havent had a drink in 6 years, so yeah you an real winner

[waterhawk]

Sure it does, I have and a do. I carry a card in the boat to remind me, has a copy of the relevant legislation on (to show them if necessary), and when I've been checked, I'm polite (if they are) and give them what they want up to what they are permitted by the law.

Never had any issues past that, although they have attempted to over-reach on most occasions by trying to construct the conversation in a way to trick me into allowing them to do a search of boat or vehicle.

Only ever had one situation where they didn't attempt to overreach and just asked to check for barbless only.

I do this because my first encounter with F&W at Policemans flats was over-aggressive on their part, so I decided to educate myself. The guy blocked my vehicle (i.e. detained me), asked to see my license (which I showed him) then implied that not having next years license was an infraction, so I then showed him next years license which I happened to have got 1 week in advance of the start of the season. Then he searched my gear. Of course, he found nothing wrong, so then proceeded to give me free information "There's heron's in that tree opposite" and left. Left me wondering what powers these guys have and
what they're allowed to do.

That's essentially some of their tactics, attempt to trick you by bending the rules as far as they can and being your best friend and then give you some useless tidbit after the event to give you warm fuzzes of them doing a good job after having underhandedly violated your rights and being your best friend when you weren't doing anything illegal. They had no reasonable suspicion they just did it anyway, i.e. they're finding a way to skirt around the law.

Not all are bad, I have encountered some that do a good job, i.e. don't dragnet
but follow up on poachers and do the hard work to catch em. But often when you encounter them at boat launches etc., it's for easy pickins, after all
most of us aren't dumb enough to poach.

You can do the same as me and be prepared too.

These guys have a job, and work for us. Assist, but don't roll over backwards for LEOs when they are overreaching, you're not facilitating their job, they are looking to book you, you;re doing us all a disservice down the line if you roll over by helping to further erode our rights and freedoms. There are so many stories on this forum of this overreach.

When they detain you to measure every fish you have and taking their time, when measuring the smallest to check it's the correct size would suffice, then it's plainly gone too far. It's meant to send a message that they are in control of you and can do what they wish, and ultimately it doesn't assist catching poachers. IMHO.

I don't have any problem with LEOs during their jobs, I just have an issue with over-reach, and I'm passionate about that for sure.


Now this is what I have been talking about. You, sir, have my respect.

[58thecat]

I'll use an extreme example for you. Like I said, this is an extreme example......
The year is 2025. Cops are going door to door looking for weed in people's homes. After going through every nook and cranny in your home, ( your wife's sexy panty drawer, your medical cabinet with your 5 year supply of Viagra, ) they then leave your house in shambles and head to your neighbours....your left to clean up the mess and feeling very violated... Keep rolling over for these little infringements of your rights though, if that's what you want in the future.(less rights)....that's how you do it. And by the way, ILLEGAL search and seizure is ILLEGAL!!!!!!!! So quit assisting criminals to break our laws!!!!!

Talking moose you need a nap or a fishing trip:). Just don't forget the the sexy panties and viagra:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Jon 2011]

RCMP have the same powers as fw officers which allows them to inspect your equipment, vehicle boat etc, so them boarding your boat was within their rights