Another Annoying Barbed Hook Question

[srin50]

Hi Everyone :)

I used to fish a lot years ago, but haven't done any real fishing in a few years..but I am ready to start again.
My problem is I don't understand barbed vs non barbed hooks, I know that barbed are now legal in Alberta. What I don't understand is that when I was younger we would throw a "red devil" on a leader and fish for Jack ...those were barbed ? why weren't they illegal then ?
For perch I used to use small snell hooks ...that I am pretty sure were barbed.
For trout how about panther martins...they are barbed aren't they ??

I never used to pinch the barb, but then we kept most of the fish we caught. Now I do c and r and understand when bait fishing the hook is almost impossible to remove if barbed and there is a worm...they swallow it.

So if the ban was still on would I have to bend the barb on all the hooks ??

THanks for your patience with this old broad :)
Shirley

[damienelliott]

Yes if the law was still in place you would have to pinch everything.

[srin50]

whoa...you mean to tell me that 90% of the lures they sell are illegal to use, if the ban was still on ???
Even spoons ???

Even panthers ?

wow...I fished for years without knowing that

YIKES

[damienelliott]

Yes if you fished with any barb on an hook other than bait holder hooks with the barbs on the shank it was illegal.

[Settle&release]

The idea behind it is to limit the impact that catch and release fishing due to limits and size restrictions.
The hooks weren't illegal until they were in Alberta waters. Lure company's do not change their production practices due to one provinces regulations. Part of fishing in Alberta or any other province is reading the regulations.
Personally i would opt for a barbless hook anyways. Just my .02

[NewAlbertan]

The idea behind it is to limit the impact that catch and release fishing due to limits and size restrictions.
The hooks weren't illegal until they were in Alberta waters. Lure company's do not change their production practices due to one provinces regulations. Part of fishing in Alberta or any other province is reading the regulations.
Personally i would opt for a barbless hook anyways. Just my .02

But also ridiculous that every vendor sells racks and racks of non compliant gear and doesn't advise purchasers that they need to 'modify' the stuff they just bought.

[Silvercreek]

Now I'm confused, I could not find anything in the 2015 regulations about barbed hooks. Are they legal to use again or not? I have not fished for a few years and always did use barbless hooks for fly fishing but I used to use barbed hooks for Pike and Pickerel. I am planning on starting fishing again now that life has slowed down a bit so I want to do what is right.

[schmedlap]

Regardless of the regs, I will continue to "debarb" almost everything I fish with, whether it is a large crank with multiple trebles for pike, or a tiny nymph imitation for trout. It is a huge advantage for C&R, in all modalities, and just much easier to unhook and release the fish unharmed. Now, if I am fishing for "meat" in the appropriate environment (put and take stocked ponds and the like) I will go barbed - it is an advantage to assured actual catch in such situations. I don't think regulating it is of any great advantage, because it is one of those small things that most people will not observe. Education is better (?).

The only time I ever fished Pigeon back when those regs were in force (I was testing out a new boat, not really concerned about the actual fishing, it was just convenient for my purpose), the F&W officer who was actually checking everyone returning to the shore at the PP that evening (it was very busy - big lineup) was quite visibly impressed and even surprised that, indeed, all our hooks were debarbed - she expressed just that - I surmised that she was not seeing a lot of compliance (?). I watched her ticket the next 2 boats in for that violation. And, bless her, she helped me and my guys trailer my boat efficiently when I was having difficulty backing the trailer in straight with my ancient truck and camper which had a turning radius of 100 yards and no visibilty of the trailer, and there was a lineup.

So, I would tell anyone who actually cares about sustainable fisheries, and who is fishing in a C&R context (voluntarily or regulated) to go barbless. It is very easy to do, and it is not just easier on the fish - it is easier for the fisher.

[Kingfisher]

You are exactly right Silvercreek. They had tried for about 3 years to have barbless rules. But they had an impossible task to try to enforce it. They could have left it in. But they chose to go back to allowing barbs. So yes you can now again use barbed hooks.

I am a total convert. I have pinched most of my hooks. I find that I catch and release most of my fish anyway. I feel a good fisherman should be able to keep enough tension on the line to keep the fish hooked. If you don't keep tension on the line then the fish gets off. Simple as that. So you do a long distance release. It was fun anyway.

[catnthehat]

whoa...you mean to tell me that 90% of the lures they sell are illegal to use, if the ban was still on ???
Even spoons ???

Even panthers ?

wow...I fished for years without knowing that

YIKES
Barbed hooks are not illegal to sell, never were, but they WERE illegal to use .
That has been changed however, and they are legal to use unless the waters are specified barbless.
Cat

[Silvercreek]

You are exactly right Silvercreek. They had tried for about 3 years to have barbless rules. But they had an impossible task to try to enforce it. They could have left it in. But they chose to go back to allowing barbs. So yes you can now again use barbed hooks.

I am a total convert. I have pinched most of my hooks. I find that I catch and release most of my fish anyway. I feel a good fisherman should be able to keep enough tension on the line to keep the fish hooked. If you don't keep tension on the line then the fish gets off. Simple as that. So you do a long distance release. It was fun anyway.

Thanks, As i said I always fly fished with barbless hooks and once I start fishing again I will just pinch everything anyways to keep it interesting.

[lannie]

You are exactly right Silvercreek. They had tried for about 3 years to have barbless rules. But they had an impossible task to try to enforce it. They could have left it in. But they chose to go back to allowing barbs. So yes you can now again use barbed hooks.

I am a total convert. I have pinched most of my hooks. I find that I catch and release most of my fish anyway. I feel a good fisherman should be able to keep enough tension on the line to keep the fish hooked. If you don't keep tension on the line then the fish gets off. Simple as that. So you do a long distance release. It was fun anyway.

http://mywildalberta.com/Fishing/Regulations/BarblessHooks.aspx

It was not the Alberta governments choice to allow barbed hooks and they had to reimburse many for "illegal" fines. There are many pros and cons to going barbless and it is currently legal and I believe that is what really matters today.

[Dewey Cox]

Alberta's ban on barbed hooks was technically never valid, as it went against federal regulations.
It bugs me now when I put a lure on and the barbs are pinched. I think the Alberta gov should reimburse me for all those hooks I was forced to modify. While they're at it, they should reimburse me for the lures I've lost on logs and rocks in public waters. ;)

[Nova]

whoa...you mean to tell me that 90% of the lures they sell are illegal to use, if the ban was still on ???
Even spoons ???

Even panthers ?

wow...I fished for years without knowing that

YIKES

I can't imagine the ripple effect that forcing retailers in barbless fishing provinces, or in areas of close proximity of lakes that are barbless would have on the fish hook market. It would be a disaster.

The use of barbed or barbless hooks is in the regulations and it is your responsibility to know them. Just like anything else, ignorance of the law isn't an excuse and retailers shouldn't need to explain it. Just like if you buy two rods, nobody should have to clarify that you can only use one during open water season. Nor should they have to explain proper fillet transportation procedures when you buy a fillet knife.

[EZM]

I can't imagine the ripple effect that forcing retailers in barbless fishing provinces, or in areas of close proximity of lakes that are barbless would have on the fish hook market. It would be a disaster.

The use of barbed or barbless hooks is in the regulations and it is your responsibility to know them. Just like anything else, ignorance of the law isn't an excuse and retailers shouldn't need to explain it. Just like if you buy two rods, nobody should have to clarify that you can only use one during open water season. Nor should they have to explain proper fillet transportation procedures when you buy a fillet knife.

I Agree 100%.

[Isopod]

I heard that the problem with Alberta's barbless law was that fishing navigable waterways falls under federal jurisdiction, so it is the federal laws that apply, and those allow for barbed hooks everywhere except in national parks. That said, I use barbless for aggressive fish like pike, but have gone back to barbed hooks for whitefish which seem to take hooks only in the lip.

[Diamondhitch]

All studies done on this have shown the same thing, barbed hooks kill about the same as barbless.

Baited treble hooks, whether barbless or not, come out as the #1 fish killer. Multi-treble hook lures, such as plugs, come out #2, whether barbless or not. Single baited hooks are #3 and single unbaited hooks, whether barbless or not, cause the least mortality.

Depending on the study, Multi treble lures and baited single hooks jockey for #2 position.

When it comes to fishing styles, baited dead set lines kill the most fish while actively fished baited lures are far more c&r friendly.

Someone mentioned panther martins, from my personal experience these guys are deadly. By that I mean that long before any barbless regs or what not I started cutting 2 of the 3 hooks off because of the extremely high mortality I was experiencing on small grayling, trout and whitefish. You get slightly lower hookup rates but the fish you catch, almost invariably, are easy to gently release.

[58thecat]

Barbed hooks are not illegal to sell, never were, but they WERE illegal to use .
That has been changed however, and they are legal to use unless the waters are specified barbless.
Cat

Cat is right, modify the hook to legally meet the waters you intend to fish.
I also modify hooks based on the people in my boats skill at casting/fishing and wear sunglasses. Barbed hooks hurt going in and freakin hurt coming out.
Just the other day had a five of diamonds smack off my head as the young lady forgot to open her bail on her cast:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[catnthehat]

But also ridiculous that every vendor sells racks and racks of non compliant gear and doesn't advise purchasers that they need to 'modify' the stuff they just bought.

The vendor needs to comply with the regulations involved in selling the product , not in how it is used.
No different than buying a firearm.
Cat

[catnthehat]

All studies done on this have shown the same thing, barbed hooks kill about the same as barbless.

Baited treble hooks, whether barbless or not, come out as the #1 fish killer. Multi-treble hook lures, such as plugs, come out #2, whether barbless or not. Single baited hooks are #3 and single unbaited hooks, whether barbless or not, cause the least mortality.

Depending on the study, Multi treble lures and baited single hooks jockey for #2 position.

When it comes to fishing styles, baited dead set lines kill the most fish while actively fished baited lures are far more c&r friendly.

Someone mentioned panther martins, from my personal experience these guys are deadly. By that I mean that long before any barbless regs or what not I started cutting 2 of the 3 hooks off because of the extremely high mortality I was experiencing on small grayling, trout and whitefish. You get slightly lower hookup rates but the fish you catch, almost invariably, are easy to gently release.
I also tend to switch out m trebles for single hooks.
I had pinched down the barbs on all my hooks for 30 years or more before the rule came in.
My brother got hooked in the arm one day when he was small, we had to hitch a ride to a doctor to get the hook out.
If the barb was pinched we could have got it out on the river.
When I am fishing most times all I need to do is grab the hook and turn it and the fish falls off the barbless hook- no jerking , twisting , or any other undue force.:)
Cat

[EZM]

All studies done on this have shown the same thing, barbed hooks kill about the same as barbless.


Respectfully - you are 100% Wrong. I am not trying to be contradictory - but there is just too much false information on this subject that many good people believe.

Nobody has been able to produce 1 (one) single scientifically credible study on this forum even ONCE to show me that. A article written in a magazine, or an opinion of someone does not count as scientifically sound data. (Someone posted a website link where someone was stating his opinion which was far from a credible scientific source).

There is certainly a "range" of data sets out there - mostly produced in the North West US and other jurisdictions (none in Alberta that I am aware of) BUT none of them show barbless hooks / barbed hooks to be equal and in no case does a barbless hook ever show higher mortality rates.

Albeit, there are studies that show a statistically insignificant difference favoring barbless hooks HOWEVER many other studies show a clear difference in mortality reduction associated with barbless hooks.

The variables and sample sizes associated with each study, of course, are a determining factor in the results, of course.

You can search the forum they have been previously posted with links.

I will agree however, a barbless treble is worse compared to a barbed single in the 2 papers I read AND bait is deadly as the fish will begin to swallow the food causing deeper hook penetration further near more vital parts of the mouth and throat that lead to even higher mortality.

I will respect the rights of each fisherman to make his or her own choice and I won't pass judgement.

I'm also not foolish enough to believe that using a barbed hook will cause a fish's head to blow up after you release it and there is probably more mortality associated with depth, poor handling, poor hook removal, time out of the water, temperature etc.... but when simply talking hooks with or without barbs - the evidence presents a pretty clear picture.

Personally I don't use barbed hooks unless I'm catching dinner (like jigging a single hook for eater sized perch). Other than that I'm 99% barbless because I will do my part to ensure the chances of mortality I may inflict is minimized.

I also have hooked myself enough times to know a barbless comes out easier, bleeds less and does less damage to me.

Either way - If you can show me this data, and it's credible, I would be interested in seeing it.

[huntsfurfish]

:sign0176::)

[EZM]

Not this again:)

Kind of like herpes ...... it lies dormant only to flare up once in a while. lol.

Note that I was careful to try and present the facts only - including those that may lead to controversy and discreditation because of friends like you who rein us in sometimes .... :)

As long as we know it probably isn't the biggest contributing factor in mortality (probably near the bottom of a long list) we can leave it at that.

We all know that time out of the water, poor handling, bait versus no bait, treble versus single, etc.. etc... are far more important to mortality - but we should still be aware of the hook. That's all.

Come on .....

It's not like this discussion can get carried away can it?:)

Did you bring a snickers?

[huntsfurfish]

Not going to say anything:):fighting0030:;)

[Okotokian]

Yes if you fished with any barb on an hook other than bait holder hooks with the barbs on the shank it was illegal.

Well only after Ralph Klein decided to do his part for wildlife and order us to go barbless. Must have been hammered. Prior to that you were good to go with barbs.

[Okotokian]

But also ridiculous that every vendor sells racks and racks of non compliant gear and doesn't advise purchasers that they need to 'modify' the stuff they just bought.

They DON'T need to modify anything. I know you are a new Albertan, but catch up here. ;)

Like with the sale of edible bait or game calls, particular uses of the products are definitely illegal. It might be a NICE customer service gesture if retailers had a little sign near the product informing the less-informed, but I don't think it should be a legal requirement that they modify the way they sell the product, or stop selling it.

[Okotokian]

the F&W officer who was actually checking everyone returning to the shore at the PP that evening (it was very busy - big lineup) was quite visibly impressed and even surprised that, indeed, all our hooks were debarbed - she expressed just that - I surmised that she was not seeing a lot of compliance (?). I watched her ticket the next 2 boats in for that violation..

Seems a total waste of taxpayer dollars. Not one of those tickets would stick in court. She didn't apprehend them using barbed hooks if she checked them on shore. It has never been illegal to have barbed hooks in your tackle box or on a rod you aren't using. Perhaps the dummies admitted they were using them. LOL

[THERICARDO]

Respectfully - you are 100% Wrong. I am not trying to be contradictory - but there is just too much false information on this subject that many good people believe.

Nobody has been able to produce 1 (one) single scientifically credible study on this forum even ONCE to show me that. A article written in a magazine, or an opinion of someone does not count as scientifically sound data. (Someone posted a website link where someone was stating his opinion which was far from a credible scientific source).

There is certainly a "range" of data sets out there - mostly produced in the North West US and other jurisdictions (none in Alberta that I am aware of) BUT none of them show barbless hooks / barbed hooks to be equal and in no case does a barbless hook ever show higher mortality rates.

Albeit, there are studies that show a statistically insignificant difference favoring barbless hooks HOWEVER many other studies show a clear difference in mortality reduction associated with barbless hooks.

The variables and sample sizes associated with each study, of course, are a determining factor in the results, of course.

You can search the forum they have been previously posted with links.

I will agree however, a barbless treble is worse compared to a barbed single in the 2 papers I read AND bait is deadly as the fish will begin to swallow the food causing deeper hook penetration further near more vital parts of the mouth and throat that lead to even higher mortality.

I will respect the rights of each fisherman to make his or her own choice and I won't pass judgement.

I'm also not foolish enough to believe that using a barbed hook will cause a fish's head to blow up after you release it and there is probably more mortality associated with depth, poor handling, poor hook removal, time out of the water, temperature etc.... but when simply talking hooks with or without barbs - the evidence presents a pretty clear picture.

Personally I don't use barbed hooks unless I'm catching dinner (like jigging a single hook for eater sized perch). Other than that I'm 99% barbless because I will do my part to ensure the chances of mortality I may inflict is minimized.

I also have hooked myself enough times to know a barbless comes out easier, bleeds less and does less damage to me.

Either way - If you can show me this data, and it's credible, I would be interested in seeing it.



true story, well written

[ELECTRIC FISHER]

Respectfully - you are 100% Wrong. I am not trying to be contradictory - but there is just too much false information on this subject that many good people believe.

Nobody has been able to produce 1 (one) single scientifically credible study on this forum even ONCE to show me that. A article written in a magazine, or an opinion of someone does not count as scientifically sound data. (Someone posted a website link where someone was stating his opinion which was far from a credible scientific source).

There is certainly a "range" of data sets out there - mostly produced in the North West US and other jurisdictions (none in Alberta that I am aware of) BUT none of them show barbless hooks / barbed hooks to be equal and in no case does a barbless hook ever show higher mortality rates.

Albeit, there are studies that show a statistically insignificant difference favoring barbless hooks HOWEVER many other studies show a clear difference in mortality reduction associated with barbless hooks.

The variables and sample sizes associated with each study, of course, are a determining factor in the results, of course.

You can search the forum they have been previously posted with links.

I will agree however, a barbless treble is worse compared to a barbed single in the 2 papers I read AND bait is deadly as the fish will begin to swallow the food causing deeper hook penetration further near more vital parts of the mouth and throat that lead to even higher mortality.

I will respect the rights of each fisherman to make his or her own choice and I won't pass judgement.

I'm also not foolish enough to believe that using a barbed hook will cause a fish's head to blow up after you release it and there is probably more mortality associated with depth, poor handling, poor hook removal, time out of the water, temperature etc.... but when simply talking hooks with or without barbs - the evidence presents a pretty clear picture.

Personally I don't use barbed hooks unless I'm catching dinner (like jigging a single hook for eater sized perch). Other than that I'm 99% barbless because I will do my part to ensure the chances of mortality I may inflict is minimized.

I also have hooked myself enough times to know a barbless comes out easier, bleeds less and does less damage to me.

Either way - If you can show me this data, and it's credible, I would be interested in seeing it.


I am with EZM on this barbed hooks kill way more fish.
I also feel that if you can keep a fish on a barbless hook it takes more skills as a fisherman to keep them from throwing it.
Just my opinion :scared0018:

[Astrocyte]

I found this study after 5 minutes of searching.

http://alaska.usgs.gov/products/pubs/2004/2004_Meka_NAJFM_24.pdf

Study took into account catching trout on barb vs barbless hooks on both fly and spin reels, hook injury, and angler experience. In general there are too many factors in play to say without a doubt that X factor contributes to fish mortality, it is next to impossible. But this study shows different results of barb vs barbless. It is an interesting read.

Personal experience for many guides their choices. For me, I go barbless on everything. Too many times I have seen the fish bleed terribly, swallow the hook in such a way that the barbs make it too difficult to remove, gills damaged by accident and so on. I do not like the idea of my choice hurting the fish so much more than necessary so I pinch everything. If I lose a fish, oh well, that means I need to pay attention more to set it right.

[neilsledder]

I don't see how anybody thinks that barbs don't inflict more damage then barbless. If I am fishing with a hook like a rapela or something with multiple hooks then my barbs are pinched, they just cause to much damage. But if I am using a jig or a hook with a single hook I tend not to pinch them. Manufactures should make a barbless hook option. I bet they would sell lots.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

I gave away half of my tackle box this year and when I replaced the lures with new ones I still pinched all of the barbs

[reppart]

We pinch barbs now even if the law was retracted, so much easier to release. If the fishing is hot it is nice to have them jump off beside the boat. Certainly don't have to land them all! ( especially after 40+ years of fishin')