Catch and Eat

[Denadii Cho]

I'm one of the old time crowd. I do not believe in catch and release. I believe that if I'm not going to eat the thing I catch I should leave it alone! But I realize that there are other types of people out there,and I'll not criticize. BUT!! Where the heck can an old man catch his fish dinner anymore in Alberta? It seems to be catch and release everywhere for most types of fish. I suppose Koi is good to eat since the Chinese are growing in numbers but ....

I like trout, pike and real fish like these :confused:

[RayL42]

for food i target lake whitefish

[dodgeboy1979]

go to sask

[Denadii Cho]

go to sask

Good idea, but only to visit. I would still have the problem of transport? Export permits?

[Denadii Cho]

for food i target lake whitefish

I love whitefish. When I was a child we would catch huge whites in Wabamun Lake. What is that like there now? Any idea?

[Mitchthefisher]

Catch and release only at wab, try gull lake for whites; **** load in that lake.

[Denadii Cho]

Catch and release only at wab, try gull lake for whites; **** load in that lake.

Thank you I will.

[dodgeboy1979]

Good idea, but only to visit. I would still have the problem of transport? Export permits?

as long as you have a fishing license or if you are a senior you can legally transport fish. Make sure you have them packaged for identification etc...

[Denadii Cho]

as long as you have a fishing license or if you are a senior you can legally transport fish. Make sure you have them packaged for identification etc...

Ah Good stuff. I'm off to Saskabush...

[Rpeake]

Just came back to fishing after 40 plus years,, I am hooked after the July 38 inch Pike at Sylvan lake. Lots of Walleyes and a 23 inch non reg pike last evening. Gave it back,,, out for more,

QUOTE=Denadii Cho;2935725]I'm one of the old time crowd. I do not believe in catch and release. I believe that if I'm not going to eat the thing I catch I should leave it alone! But I realize that there are other types of people out there,and I'll not criticize. BUT!! Where the heck can an old man catch his fish dinner anymore in Alberta? It seems to be catch and release everywhere for most types of fish. I suppose Koi is good to eat since the Chinese are growing in numbers but ....

I like trout, pike and real fish like these :confused:[/QUOTE]

[Denadii Cho]

Just came back to fishing after 40 plus years,, I am hooked after the July 38 inch Pike at Sylvan lake. Lots of Walleyes and a 23 inch non reg pike last evening. Gave it back,,, out for more,

QUOTE=Denadii Cho;2935725]I'm one of the old time crowd. I do not believe in catch and release. I believe that if I'm not going to eat the thing I catch I should leave it alone! But I realize that there are other types of people out there,and I'll not criticize. BUT!! Where the heck can an old man catch his fish dinner anymore in Alberta? It seems to be catch and release everywhere for most types of fish. I suppose Koi is good to eat since the Chinese are growing in numbers but ....

I like trout, pike and real fish like these :confused:[/QUOTE]

I remember Sylvan lake. Where are the deep areas of this lake. Do you know?

[whitetail Junkie]

Fresh wild salmon at the grocery store right now for $2.50 a fish!!!! Limit of 4 fish per customer...that's $10 to have 4 salmon...its cost me $10 just for a 24 pack of leeches....the days of going fishing in alberta to fill up the freezer and making things economically viable are over....

I keep everything I'm entitled to when I fish in Alberta because I enjoy fresh fish,however with minuscule catch limits its not economically friendly most the time when you consider bait and fuel,however I'm out there to enjoy fishing,the meat is just a bonus these days I guess.

[Denadii Cho]

Fresh wild salmon at the grocery store right now for $2.50 a fish!!!! Limit of 4 fish per customer...that's $10 to have 4 salmon...its cost me $10 just for a 24 pack of leeches....the days of going fishing in alberta to fill up the freezer and making things economically viable are over....

I keep everything I'm entitled to when I fish in Alberta because I enjoy fresh fish,however with minuscule catch limits its not economically friendly most the time when you consider bait and fuel,however I'm out there to enjoy fishing,the meat is just a bonus these days I guess.

I'm starting to think the same thing. Yet the rich bas----s go rape the land all the time with impunity. :angry3:

[FlyTheory]

Most stocked trout ponds are your best bet. Plus then you aren't interfering with native populations. Win win :)

[Bushrat]

Fresh wild salmon at the grocery store right now for $2.50 a fish!!!!

They must be Pinks or humpies.

[Brandonkop]

Fresh wild salmon at the grocery store right now for $2.50 a fish!!!! Limit of 4 fish per customer...that's $10 to have 4 salmon...its cost me $10 just for a 24 pack of leeches....the days of going fishing in alberta to fill up the freezer and making things economically viable are over....

I keep everything I'm entitled to when I fish in Alberta because I enjoy fresh fish,however with minuscule catch limits its not economically friendly most the time when you consider bait and fuel,however I'm out there to enjoy fishing,the meat is just a bonus these days I guess.

But those are probably pink salmon right, not my favorite a little too mushy.

[chimpac]

I'm one of the old time crowd. I do not believe in catch and release. I believe that if I'm not going to eat the thing I catch I should leave it alone! But I realize that there are other types of people out there,and I'll not criticize. BUT!! Where the heck can an old man catch his fish dinner anymore in Alberta? It seems to be catch and release everywhere for most types of fish. I suppose Koi is good to eat since the Chinese are growing in numbers but ....

I like trout, pike and real fish like these :confused:


I agree, there are not many fish to catch and eat because we have to save them for the catch and release guys to play with them and kill a certain percentage of them maybe 25 to 50%.

[Redfrog]

Fresh wild salmon at the grocery store right now for $2.50 a fish!!!! Limit of 4 fish per customer...that's $10 to have 4 salmon...its cost me $10 just for a 24 pack of leeches....the days of going fishing in alberta to fill up the freezer and making things economically viable are over....

I keep everything I'm entitled to when I fish in Alberta because I enjoy fresh fish,however with minuscule catch limits its not economically friendly most the time when you consider bait and fuel,however I'm out there to enjoy fishing,the meat is just a bonus these days I guess.


....

[EZM]

I agree if the point is going out for food - save your gas money and all the money you will spend on tackle, gear and bait and go to the grocery store. You will further along if food is the primary goal.

Yes, it's nice to keep a fresh fish for dinner every once in a while. Nothing wrong with that as long as you are following the regulations. It's also nice to just get out in the fresh air, nature and spend a day on the water with friends and family too.

There are other options here in Alberta as well, and as mentioned above, like stocked trout ponds. There are undersubscribed walleye tags, there are some species and lakes that do allow a reasonable harvest.

We just have to realize this isn't 30 or 100 years ago and, guess what, the buffalo are all gone too .... it's time for us all to contribute to responsible management and harvest of our over pressured resource.

[FlyTheory]

We just have to realize this isn't 30 or 100 years ago and, guess what, the buffalo are all gone too .... it's time for us all to contribute to responsible management and harvest of our over pressured resource.


Couldn't have said it better, it's difficult since a lot of people love to go fishing for subsistence. At some point in the future I can see it plausible that all native trout streams as well as unstocked mesotropic lakes will be catch and release. So bonk what you can now eh...

[bloopbloob]

I agree, there are not many fish to catch and eat because we have to save them for the catch and release guys to play with them and kill a certain percentage of them maybe 25 to 50%.

It's not 25 or 50%. But guess what, even if it was 99.99% death rate, that's still better than the survival rate of catch and keep.

[Kim473]

Read the regs. Lots of lakes with a keep of 1 or 2 fish out there. Walleye tags too.

[wind drift]

Catch and release only at wab, try gull lake for whites; **** load in that lake.

Not the best advice. Wabamun is 0 harvest for all species. :sign0161:

[Mitchthefisher]

Not the best advice. Wabamun is 0 harvest for all species. :sign0161:

I said right in my post that wabuman is catch and release only what are you talking about? And how is gull lake bad advice? You can keep 3 there and they are easy to catch there.

[wind drift]

My bad. Sorry. Best let eyes open fully before engaging next time.
:(

[Mitchthefisher]

My bad. Sorry. Best let eyes open fully before engaging next time.
:(

No worries man, you need a morning coffee in ya.:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[pipco]

I agree, there are not many fish to catch and eat because we have to save them for the catch and release guys to play with them and kill a certain percentage of them maybe 25 to 50%.

Sheeeesh!
:snapoutofit:

With the state of our fisheries, growing population and pressure on once quiet, unknown places, catch and release is necessary .

In a very short time, there would nothing left for anyone if there were not tighter regulations. Why is this so difficult to understand for some folks?

[Kurt505]

Sheeeesh!
:snapoutofit:

With the state of our fisheries, growing population and pressure on once quiet, unknown places, catch and release is necessary .

In a very short time, there would nothing left for anyone if there were not tighter regulations. Why is this so difficult to understand for some folks?

Maybe to cut down on fish mortality they should shut down fishing all together in Alberta for a 5yr period so our fish stocks can replenish. After that we can start back up with special permits that only allow a certain amount of fishing trips per year to avoid high mortality rates of catch and release fish as well.

Many lakes in Alberta are at a point where you can't cast without hitting a walleye on the head, walleye retention is near zero, and now you are hard pressed to find a pike, probably because people have only been able to retain pike or they are having a hard time at competing for food with all the walleye.

There are 30% less anglers in Alberta today than in the 80's, what is the real reason for our fishery being in the state it's in? Or should I say perceived state?

[huntsfurfish]

Maybe to cut down on fish mortality they should shut down fishing all together in Alberta for a 5yr period so our fish stocks can replenish. After that we can start back up with special permits that only allow a certain amount of fishing trips per year to avoid high mortality rates of catch and release fish as well.

Many lakes in Alberta are at a point where you can't cast without hitting a walleye on the head, walleye retention is near zero, and now you are hard pressed to find a pike, probably because people have only been able to retain pike or they are having a hard time at competing for food with all the walleye.

There are 30% less anglers in Alberta today than in the 80's, what is the real reason for our fishery being in the state it's in? Or should I say perceived state?

Hope you are joking about the 5 year thing!
How bout more time spent fishing, more seniors, better fishermen, more immigration(more meat fishermen), better tackle, boats electronics, more poaching and the internet, just to name a few.:)

[CK Angler]

I still think Alberta needs to implement better slot regulations that restricts people from keeping larger fish. This argument had been had countless times, but I still don't agree with keeping "overs" slot sizes should be under a certain length. When I go to other provinces we can keep a limit of 6 walleye per license under a certain length, so we keep a handful of 15-20" walleye, anything over 20" is released. Alberta should implement something similar IMO that protects the larger breeders.

[bloopbloob]

i still think alberta needs to implement better slot regulations that restricts people from keeping larger fish. This argument had been had countless times, but i still don't agree with keeping "overs" slot sizes should be under a certain length. When i go to other provinces we can keep a limit of 6 walleye per license under a certain length, so we keep a handful of 15-20" walleye, anything over 20" is released. Alberta should implement something similar imo that protects the larger breeders.

+1👍

[Denadii Cho]

I agree, there are not many fish to catch and eat because we have to save them for the catch and release guys to play with them and kill a certain percentage of them maybe 25 to 50%.

I agree. Hooking a fish and throwing it back will kill a lot of them, wastes them. I've always taught my kids that if you kill something, eat it. If you don't want to eat it, leave it alone...All of my family believes this. We've been in this land since 1616 and have been trappers, hunters, and fishers. Take what you need and leave the rest in peace.

[Denadii Cho]

+1👍

Yeah..Limit government and give us back our freedom? I like that.

[saskpikeman]

I am for keeping fish, but 25 pound pike and 10 pound walleye do not belong on a dinner plate, fish that could take decades to grow.

[bloopbloob]

Yeah..Limit government and give us back our freedom? I like that.

Maybe you have problems with your eyes... As I don't see where you got that from. If you think 'Albertans' (said loosely) could responsibly manage our fisheries on our own, better than with the current regulations, you live in a dream world. I agreed a slot size would be nice.

[RisingRainbows]

Are people seriously bashing catch and release on a fishing forum... Raising your kids to enjoy the outdoors and put fish back will kill some fish but if it creates a life of loving our natural world and trying to make a difference for our natural species and habitat it is worth it 100 times over. Catch and release is a way to connect with our natural world while minimizing our impact on it.

[rycoma]

I agree, there are not many fish to catch and eat because we have to save them for the catch and release guys to play with them and kill a certain percentage of them maybe 25 to 50%.

If you are killing 25 to 50 percent of the released fish you catch. You are doing it completly wrong. To light of gear and fighting the fish way to long. Keeping the fish out of the water to take a glory picture. Plus barbless hooks make for a easy release I never touch the fish . It has been years since I have mortaly injured a realeased fish. Catch and release works its a fact, but you as a fisherman have to do your part.

[Kurt505]

Hope you are joking about the 5 year thing!
How bout more time spent fishing, more seniors, better fishermen, more immigration(more meat fishermen), better tackle, boats electronics, more poaching and the internet, just to name a few.:)



Lol.

[Mitchthefisher]

I have caught the same sucker fish 4 times today so obviously catch and release works lol

[deerguy]

I agree, there are not many fish to catch and eat because we have to save them for the catch and release guys to play with them and kill a certain percentage of them maybe 25 to 50%.

Get over yourself. Plenty of fish back East for you too eat if you don't like the way we do things.

[Nova]

I agree. Hooking a fish and throwing it back will kill a lot of them, wastes them.

What exactly is "a lot" in your mind? We've already had one member suggest 25-50%. If your "lot" mean's "a great deal" or "a large amount", then I guess you'd agree with 25-50%?

I spend a fair bit of time on the water, mostly fishing lakes with slot limits. I throw back the majority of what I catch, usually only keeping my limit of walleye on a couple outings in spring so that's probably 8-12 a year depending on where I'm fishing. That's likely less than 5% of the fish I catch in a year. Would you really suggest that I'm killing another 50 or so fish a year just by virtue of catch and release fishing?

Then why is it that I do not see dead fish floating or washed up on shore during each and every outing? Why, on a place like Lake of the Prairies, where some boats can catch 100 walleye on a good day do I not see dead fish everywhere? Should it not be absolutely littered with dead fish after the Prairie Classic tournament, where there are 240+ skilled anglers on the water for two days? So why isn't it? Where are all these mortally wounded/dead fish disappearing to?

Fishing isn't just about food. Sport fishing is a tourism industry, and without a responsible catch and release mindset it would not exist. People travel all over Canada supporting other communities. Heck, people travel to Canada to come take part in fishing here. If limits were opened up and a catch and keep mentality was promoted it would deplete the numbers and not be sustainable. Sure you could make it a daily limit of 1 or 2, but if one was required by law to keep what they catch then nobody is going to bother spending hundreds or thousands of dollars to go on a trip to catch one fish.

[FlyTheory]

Fishing isn't just about food. Sport fishing is a tourism industry, and without a responsible catch and release mindset it would not exist. People travel all over Canada supporting other communities. Heck, people travel to Canada to come take part in fishing here. If limits were opened up and a catch and keep mentality was promoted it would deplete the numbers and not be sustainable. Sure you could make it a daily limit of 1 or 2, but if one was required by law to keep what they catch then nobody is going to bother spending hundreds or thousands of dollars to go on a trip to catch one fish.

I spend about a month in south america this year and the whole concept of catch and release is non-existent in the countries I was in. I fished there quite regularly, and this was in the upper Amazon basin (very similar looking to the bow, but surrounded by cloud forest or jungle). There were barely any fish due to this catch and keep mentality, many tribes were suffering from this lack of food. Catch and release does work and is crucial for our worlds future fish stocks. There is so much proof that it works and I don't understand how specific people don't grasp this concept (I'm not attacking anyone, just a general statment towards C&K people). If you're practicing catch and release and killing 50% of the fish, pinch your barbs, use the right rod, don't use bait, then get back to us. Catch and keep doesn't always work either, I've had perch come back to life in my kitchen sink.. :lol:

[MathewsArcher]

http://www.westernsportsman.com/2014/01/fish-mortality-catch-and-release/

Good summary on C&R mortality and documents up to 64% mortality on trout caught with bait and up to 10% for those caught on flies.

Water temperature and build up of lactic acid have as much if not more to do with it than most people are aware of.

[Elixr]

I spend about a month in south america this year and the whole concept of catch and release is non-existent in the countries I was in. I fished there quite regularly, and this was in the upper Amazon basin (very similar looking to the bow, but surrounded by cloud forest or jungle). There were barely any fish due to this catch and keep mentality, many tribes were suffering from this lack of food. Catch and release does work and is crucial for our worlds future fish stocks. There is so much proof that it works and I don't understand how specific people don't grasp this concept (I'm not attacking anyone, just a general statment towards C&K people). If you're practicing catch and release and killing 50% of the fish, pinch your barbs, use the right rod, don't use bait, then get back to us. Catch and keep doesn't always work either, I've had perch come back to life in my kitchen sink.. :lol:

I hope you start a thread with pictures and a story of your adventure. I would love to hear about it

[chimpac]

It's not 25 or 50%. But guess what, even if it was 99.99% death rate, that's still better than the survival rate of catch and keep.

Catch 3 fish and eat 3 fish a day or catch and release all day and kill how many fish.

[Mitchthefisher]

Catch 3 fish and eat 3 fish a day or catch and release all day and kill how many fish.

Should not kill any fish if you handle them correctly lol

[bloopbloob]

Catch 3 fish and eat 3 fish a day or catch and release all day and kill how many fish.

Your logic is so flawed. Not going to continue this argument. I'll just say this. Catch and keep fishermen/women won't catch 3 legal keepers on their first 3 hookups. I fish a lot, and depending on the lake, it can take catching 20+ fish before catching one that would even be legal to keep. Even so, I almost always choose to release it. As a catch and keeper, is every fish you catch legal? Or are you a poacher? If yes to either, you are either a liar, or poacher. If you follow the law, you will probably release nearly as many fish as the catch and release guys do. I find you highly hypocritical, and probably just trolling.

I have no problem with anyone who fishes legally for food. But don't attack those who do it mainly for sport. Our licences fund the same fisheries you take from.

[Bushrat]

Catch 3 fish and eat 3 fish a day or catch and release all day and kill how many fish.

And those guys catch and release small ones, until they catch their limit of the 3 biggest fish they caught all day and release just as many as the guy who catches and releases and doesn't keep any fish, in some cases worse as they keep the biggest one in a live well until they catch a bigger one then throw the last one back already dead, half dead or sure to die and keep a limit of the largest fish they caught all day.

Also how many guys would drag their expensive boats hundreds of miles, or hire a guide or fly in to an outfitter and catch their limit of 3 fish in the firs 5 minutes of the day and then quit fishing because they have their limit. I'll be damned if I'm gonna spend a tank of fuel and 3 hours drive there and back say out to a mountain lake or stream, catch and keep the first fish or three then pack up and drive home because I can't catch and release.

[Kurt505]

CK got it right.

[Red Bullets]

If god didn't want us to eat fish he wouldn't have made them out of meat!

[Kurt505]

If god didn't want us to eat fish he wouldn't have made them out of meat!

Or so dang tasty with some flour, salt and pepper, butter and onions......



I think I'll have some walleye for supper tonight :sHa_shakeshout:

[Lefty-Canuck]

I like how some run down C&R....so if they catch an undersized or non retension species they keep it anyway? :)

100% of the fish caught and kept die....less C&R fish die that that :)

Should have seen the horror in some folks faces when I caught a couple 12-14 inch trout off the sea wall at Carson and let them go.

LC

[calgarychef]

Well I'm a catcher and eater and I just got back from Sask. and brought a whole cooler of fillets home. I also released a bunch but only the ones I was sure weren't mortally injured. I have to agree with the notion that catching and releasing all day certainly will kill a number of the fish thrown back. A prolific (lucky) fisherman can probably kill more fish in a day throwing them back than if they'd have caught a couple and eaten them. I don't like the idea of catching and releasing as a pass time.

[wildside2014]

I like how some run down C&R....so if they catch an undersized or non retension species they keep it anyway? :)

100% of the fish caught and kept die....less C&R fish die that that :)

Should have seen the horror in some folks faces when I caught a couple 12-14 inch trout off the sea wall at Carson and let them go.

LC

Smartest man in the thread

Im amazed how a thread with a guy asking what lakes kight have keeper limits turn into a bash fest. Gotta love AO

[greyduck]

Well I'm a catcher and eater and I just got back from Sask. and brought a whole cooler of fillets home. I also released a bunch but only the ones I was sure weren't mortally injured. I have to agree with the notion that catching and releasing all day certainly will kill a number of the fish thrown back. A prolific (lucky) fisherman can probably kill more fish in a day throwing them back than if they'd have caught a couple and eaten them. I don't like the idea of catching and releasing as a pass time.

How can one person bring a cooler full of fillets back from Sask when the limit is generally 4 fish?

[calgarychef]

I brought back 16 fish, the limit is 5 pike Per person and I have a family of four.
Additionally in sask. the kids have their own limit, they don't fish off of the parents limit. The lake I went to is one my family has been going to for four generations, a long time... This year I had the best fishing I've ever had in that lake so all that catch and keeping must be working ;)

[Lefty-Canuck]

I brought back 16 fish, the limit is 5 pike Per person and I have a family of four.
Additionally in sask. the kids have their own limit, they don't fish off of the parents limit. The lake I went to is one my family has been going to for four generations, a long time... This year I had the best fishing I've ever had in that lake so all that catch and keeping must be working ;)

Where do kids fish off the parents limit?

LC

[Talking moose]

How can one person bring a cooler full of fillets back from Sask when the limit is generally 4 fish?

I get a cooler of walleye shipped up on the bus every so often. Deboned, vacuum packed from a cold clear northern lake. Tastey tastey.

[Chief16]

If god didn't want us to eat fish he wouldn't have made them out of meat!

Guess we better start eating each other

[Chief16]

I hope you start a thread with pictures and a story of your adventure. I would love to hear about it

X2. Especially your recent trip catching fish on your hiking pole ;)

[greyduck]

I brought back 16 fish, the limit is 5 pike Per person and I have a family of four.
Additionally in sask. the kids have their own limit, they don't fish off of the parents limit. The lake I went to is one my family has been going to for four generations, a long time... This year I had the best fishing I've ever had in that lake so all that catch and keeping must be working ;)

My bad, I had Walleye on the brain and you were using the singular I. My apologies.

[.257Weatherby]

I brought back 16 fish, the limit is 5 pike Per person and I have a family of four.
Additionally in sask. the kids have their own limit, they don't fish off of the parents limit. The lake I went to is one my family has been going to for four generations, a long time... This year I had the best fishing I've ever had in that lake so all that catch and keeping must be working ;)

Actually cc, your thread should read ''We Brought Back'' and not I.
Implying there was/is more than one limit retained.
One has to like when a Province or State has a very liberal catch limit and allows the processing of its game fish to facilitate storage.
Tight Lines All..or shall I say Limit your catch and not catch your limit?
Rob

[Kurt505]

Guess we better start eating each other



:thinking-006:

[calgarychef]

Well "i" carried the cooler and "i" put the fish in the freezer for everyone in the family. "I" will cook them and "we" will all eat them. Yum

[Rpeake]

I remember Sylvan lake. Where are the deep areas of this lake. Do you know?[/QUOTE]

[jeffrey929]

Possession limit in the province remains the same regardless of the provincial limits where they are harvested. Keep that in mind when crossing the border

[Nova]

Possession limit in the province remains the same regardless of the provincial limits where they are harvested. Keep that in mind when crossing the border

Based on a discussion on a different forum, this is not true. And that information came from a natural resources officer who just retired this past spring. Fish caught in one province can legally be possessed in another province.

[Chief16]

Based on a discussion on a different forum, this is not true. And that information came from a natural resources officer who just retired this past spring. Fish caught in one province can legally be possessed in another province.

I don't think he was disagreeing with that. He means that if a total possession limit is 2 fish for example and you bring back two fish from Saskatchewan for instance, you cannot keep anymore as the Saskatchewan count toward possession even if they are not caught here.

[Nova]

The same still applies. Your Saskatchewan fish are applied to your limit in Sask and Alberta fish to your Alberta limit. It's the same concept as being an Alberta resident who only fishes in Saskatchewan. You would not have to buy an Alberta fishing license in order to take fish home.

[Brandonkop]

Possession limit in the province remains the same regardless of the provincial limits where they are harvested. Keep that in mind when crossing the border


This is incorrect. If you caught the fish in a different province you can bring it back home. It won't count towards your possession limit in Alberta. It just has to be legally caught and legal limits where you were. Although I'd follow the provinces transportation of game fish regulations that you are entering... just in case.

[jeffrey929]

So you are saying I am allowed to possess 3 pike in my freezer from Alberta and another 5 from Saskatchewan, meaning I can possess 8 total

[Nova]

That right. It would be a good idea to label the bags as to the where and when the fish was caught and retain any receipts as proof of having been in the province that the fish were caught in.

[Don K]

But those are probably pink salmon right, not my favorite a little too mushy.

100x better than any muddy tasting fish you're gonna pull out of Alberta lake from July on...

[clamlinguine]

Are people seriously bashing catch and release on a fishing forum... Raising your kids to enjoy the outdoors and put fish back will kill some fish but if it creates a life of loving our natural world and trying to make a difference for our natural species and habitat it is worth it 100 times over. Catch and release is a way to connect with our natural world while minimizing our impact on it.

Hope this works, just joined today, but have fished for half a decade.
Just got back from South Ram C&R. Boring. Like shooting a popgun at fenced in Rhinos. Especially disgusting was watching a 18 incher float away dead after trying to revive it for a half hour. That one would have been supper. What a waste. I practice C&R 95% of the time, but only so I can come back and eat them next time, lol.

Connect with nature find another way than by torturing fish. Eating a fish validates the love and legitimacy of the sport.

Actually, if you want to C&R go ahead, but I do not find it to be nobility of it all is lost on me.

[huntsfurfish]

Hope this works, just joined today, but have fished for half a decade.
Just got back from South Ram C&R. Boring. Like shooting a popgun at fenced in Rhinos. Especially disgusting was watching a 18 incher float away dead after trying to revive it for a half hour. That one would have been supper. What a waste. I practice C&R 95% of the time, but only so I can come back and eat them next time, lol.

Connect with nature find another way than by torturing fish. Eating a fish validates the love and legitimacy of the sport.

Actually, if you want to C&R go ahead, but I do not find it to be nobility of it all is lost on me.

:):):):):):)

[Walleyedude]

Connect with nature find another way than by torturing fish. Eating a fish validates the love and legitimacy of the sport.

If Pamela Anderson (PETA) and Ted Nugent had a child, this is how I would imagine he/she would respond. Wow lol...

[RisingRainbows]

Connect with nature find another way than by torturing fish. Eating a fish validates the love and legitimacy of the sport.

Catch and release = torture?

[weedhaul]

I would agree in principal that releasing a fish that has suffered potentially fatal damage in the catch is probably worse that just taking it home. However, often other fish will feed on the dead ones anyway so it's not so bad. Seriously though, nobody fishes to be kind to the fish, but those who practice C&R (like me) should be trying to do so with minimal harm. Funny how things have evolved...in the past, people would have thought you were insane for fishing with no intention of eating them. Now, we breed and stock fish so we can catch them and let them go again.

[clamlinguine]

If Pamela Anderson (PETA) and Ted Nugent had a child, this is how I would imagine he/she would respond. Wow lol...[/QUOTE]

Lol, thats good. Bottom line is I have been fishing half a century and I really hate throwing away dying fish.

I encourage you all to reconnect and eat a fish!

Its time to somehow allow a fish to be kept out of these C&R streams. It would breathe some excitement into the sport. Maybe I could get my adult kids to come out again.

[clamlinguine]

If Pamela Anderson (PETA) and Ted Nugent had a child, this is how I would imagine he/she would respond. Wow lol...

I love this! Ah, speaking of Pamela.... A C&R guy in a C&R stream is like a eunuch browsing through a playboy. Whereas, for real fisherman (me), its like going to a supermodel convention, selecting Pamela Anderson and getting all kinds of special......loving.....

lmao,

[Walleyedude]

I love this! Ah, speaking of Pamela.... A C&R guy in a C&R stream is like a eunuch browsing through a playboy. Whereas, for real fisherman (me), its like going to a supermodel convention, selecting Pamela Anderson and getting all kinds of special......loving.....

lmao,

Ha.

More like being a single guy vs. a married guy.

For a single guy, a good C&R stream or lake is like being at the playboy mansion, you're free to "hook up" with whoever you like, as many times as you like, and not be committed to any single catch.

The married guy gets to hook up once, and ONLY once in this analogy lol, and then he's done, he can only look on and dream about all the other trophies out there!

On a serious note, while I strongly disagree with your assertions about C&R fishing and torturing fish, I do get where you're coming from with being forced to release a mortally wounded fish, I REALLY don't like it either. I understand why the laws are the way the are though, because any other way would just create far too great of a "grey area" to allow for any type of efficient enforcement of retention laws.

[Jayhad]

Its time to somehow allow a fish to be kept out of these C&R streams. It would breathe some excitement into the sport. Maybe I could get my adult kids to come out again.

Give your head a shake, the only reason you can catch a fish in these streams is because they are C&R, You have put and take lakes that will meet you need to kill, they are more than satisfactory....

How is killing a fish once it's landed the exciting part of fishing....... maybe your kids don't come out because your blood lust and enjoyment in killing something concerns them.

[Mitchthefisher]

Give your head a shake, the only reason you can catch a fish in these streams is because they are C&R, You have put and take lakes that will meet you need to kill, they are more than satisfactory....

How is killing a fish once it's landed the exciting part of fishing....... maybe your kids don't come out because your blood lust and enjoyment in killing something concerns them.

2X Also if you handle the fish correctly they have a very good survival rate, dont take them out the water, land them quickly and send them back and there should be no issues.

[clamlinguine]

Give your head a shake, the only reason you can catch a fish in these streams is because they are C&R, You have put and take lakes that will meet you need to kill, they are more than satisfactory....

How is killing a fish once it's landed the exciting part of fishing....... maybe your kids don't come out because your blood lust and enjoyment in killing something concerns them.

Haha, bloodlust. So you are a Vegan, hmm.

If you aren't fishing for food, or the idea of doing so, you have no moral reason for being out there. Deal with it. C&Rs need to have there own little pothole lake in the city so they can practice being fisherman. Just keep torturing the same fish over and over again like you do now in C&R streams. Your hobby is competely pointless. Mine is not. Its called fishing.

Actually it was my kids who laughed at me for going to the Ram and gave me the analogy of taking a popgun to the zoo and shooting at zebras, lol.

[clamlinguine]

Ha.

More like being a single guy vs. a married guy.

For a single guy, a good C&R stream or lake is like being at the playboy mansion, you're free to "hook up" with whoever you like, as many times as you like, and not be committed to any single catch.

The married guy gets to hook up once, and ONLY once in this analogy lol, and then he's done, he can only look on and dream about all the other trophies out there!

On a serious note, while I strongly disagree with your assertions about C&R fishing and torturing fish, I do get where you're coming from with being forced to release a mortally wounded fish, I REALLY don't like it either. I understand why the laws are the way the are though, because any other way would just create far too great of a "grey area" to allow for any type of efficient enforcement of retention laws.

Nice, but sorry, your girls have been with so many different partners, Im gonna have to say ahhhh....no thanks, lol.

On your serious note, for sure there would be abuse but there should be enough fish in these waters to make a minimal harvest feasible. If populations decline unacceptably, close it again.

[Walleyedude]

On your serious note, for sure there would be abuse but there should be enough fish in these waters to make a minimal harvest feasible. If populations decline unacceptably, close it again.

I'm not even sure there even should be enough fish to support a minimal harvest. No stream was ever, or will ever, be able to support continuous harvest by 10's of thousands, or even hundreds, of anglers every year. The fact of the matter is, having a harvest rate on the vast majority of AB's waters is simply not feasible, not for the C&R fisherman, and not for the catch and keep fisherman.

I don't see the point in opening a stream for a year or two and then closing it for 10 or 20 years while it *hopefully* recovers.

[Walleyedude]

Haha, bloodlust. So you are a Vegan, hmm.

If you aren't fishing for food, or the idea of doing so, you have no moral reason for being out there. Deal with it. Your hobby is competely pointless. Mine is not. Its called fishing.

I know you believe you're standing on the moral high ground, but this is a very slippery slope you're putting yourself on. I'd be very cautious with this line of logic.

The very same arguments can very easily be used against you by those that are vegans, or who are 100% anti-hunting/anti-fishing.

[Fishslayer99]

Originally Posted by clamlinguine:
If you aren't fishing for food, or the idea of doing so, you have no moral reason for being out there. Deal with it. C&Rs need to have there own little pothole lake in the city so they can practice being fisherman. Just keep torturing the same fish over and over again like you do now in C&R streams. Your hobby is competely pointless. Mine is not. Its called fishing.

New member...wow, something smells fishy. quote of the year right here!!!:snapoutofit:

[RisingRainbows]

I know you believe you're standing on the moral high ground, but this is a very slippery slope you're putting yourself on. I'd be very cautious with this line of logic.

The very same arguments can very easily be used against you by those that are vegans, or who are 100% anti-hunting/anti-fishing.
I agree 100%. There's nothing wrong with keeping fish where it's legal and there's nothing wrong with catch and release. Let's not fight amongst ourselves and give fuel to that crowd.

[Mitchthefisher]

111623

[benamen]

as long as you have a fishing license or if you are a senior you can legally transport fish. Make sure you have them packaged for identification etc...

If you are an Albertan fishing Saskatchewan and are a Senior, you still need a Saskatchewan fishing license.
Saskatchewan Resident (see definition on page 9)
Age 16 to 64
- Annual............................................ .........................................$29.44
- 3 day (consecutive days - southern and central zones only) ...........$14.72
- 1 day (southern and central zones only).......................................$10.00
Senior (65 or older) - no licence required.........................................N/A
Youth (under 16) - no licence required.......................................... ...N/A

Canadian Resident (see definition on page 9)
Age 16 and older
-Annual............................................ .........................................$58.87
- 3 day (consecutive days - southern and central zones only) ............$29.44
- 1 day (southern and central zones only).......................................$15.00
Youth (under 16) - no licence required.......................................... ....N/A

[clamlinguine]

I agree 100%. There's nothing wrong with keeping fish where it's legal and there's nothing wrong with catch and release. Let's not fight amongst ourselves and give fuel to that crowd.

I agree with this. However I see where this is going provincially and nationallly. There are two types of people in this world, there are talkers and there are doers. While I am out fishing, C&Rs are busy talking, and they arent going to stop talking until their unnatural nirvana is imposed province wide. There needs to be pushback.

[clamlinguine]

I'm not even sure there even should be enough fish to support a minimal harvest. No stream was ever, or will ever, be able to support continuous harvest by 10's of thousands, or even hundreds, of anglers every year. The fact of the matter is, having a harvest rate on the vast majority of AB's waters is simply not feasible, not for the C&R fisherman, and not for the catch and keep fisherman.

I don't see the point in opening a stream for a year or two and then closing it for 10 or 20 years while it *hopefully* recovers.

I was catching fish in the South Ram before the C&R regulations, it was good fishing. You didnt open your car door, step out and catch your limit though. You had to work a bit and there was some excitement when you hooked into one. I think the limit was 4 a day back then.

I was OK with the closure at the time because I thought "Ya think how great fishing will be when it reopens"! lol

[huntsfurfish]

Haha, bloodlust. So you are a Vegan, hmm.

If you aren't fishing for food, or the idea of doing so, you have no moral reason for being out there. Deal with it. C&Rs need to have there own little pothole lake in the city so they can practice being fisherman. Just keep torturing the same fish over and over again like you do now in C&R streams. Your hobby is competely pointless. Mine is not. Its called fishing.

Actually it was my kids who laughed at me for going to the Ram and gave me the analogy of taking a popgun to the zoo and shooting at zebras, lol.

:):):):):):):):)

[Speckle55]

In Switzerland and Germany, catch and release fishing is considered inhumane and is now banned.[5] In Germany, the Animal Welfare Act states that "no-one may cause an animal pain, suffering or harm without good reason".[6] This leaves no legal basis for catch and release due to its argued inherent lack of "good reason", and thus personal fishing is solely allowed for immediate food consumption. Additionally, it is against the law to release fish back into the water if they are above minimum size requirements and aren't a protected species or in closed season.



National Parks of Canada Fishing Regulations




Fishing Permits

Anyone under the age of 16 may fish in the national parks without a permit if accompanied by a permit holder 16 years of age or older. However, their catch is then included within the permit holder's daily limit. They may also purchase their own permit and be entitled to the full catch limit.

Food for Thought

David:)

Where do kids fish off the parents limit?

LC

[Walleyedude]

I was catching fish in the South Ram before the C&R regulations, it was good fishing. You didnt open your car door, step out and catch your limit though. You had to work a bit and there was some excitement when you hooked into one. I think the limit was 4 a day back then.

I was OK with the closure at the time because I thought "Ya think how great fishing will be when it reopens"! lol

Your own experience is telling you that retention limits on our rivers and lakes are required, and your experience is far from unique. What would the fishing on the South Ram be like in 2015 had the 4 fish per day limit remained in place?

I can't wrap my head around the fact there is no excitement for an angler in hooking into a fish now, under the same circumstances, simply because it must be released to live another day and give another angler the same opportunity to experience that excitement.

Is the excitement in the catching, or the keeping?

If it's purely in the keeping, then there's no reason for you to go fishing at all, thus my slippery slope post that you chose not to respond to. Fresh fish, trout included, is available at the grocery store every day of the year, and that should be all it takes to give you that same sense of excitement.

[calgarychef]

In a catch and keep situation in a fishing spot that can't sustain keeping (but can sustain deaths through release?) there will eventually be tags and draws. My prediction..... The fishing in alberta can't sustain either catch and release or catch and keep beyond a certain point. As our human population increases its inevitable.

I'd rather be able to catch a couple fish and eat them than catch and release. I'm not much of a fisherman though, so I might be in the minority. I see no joy in catching and releasing numerous fish in a day and going home with nothing to eat but still possibly having killed fish inadvertently.

[clamlinguine]

Your own experience is telling you that retention limits on our rivers and lakes are required, and your experience is far from unique. What would the fishing on the South Ram be like in 2015 had the 4 fish per day limit remained in place?

I can't wrap my head around the fact there is no excitement for an angler in hooking into a fish now, under the same circumstances, simply because it must be released to live another day and give another angler the same opportunity to experience that excitement.

Is the excitement in the catching, or the keeping?

If it's purely in the keeping, then there's no reason for you to go fishing at all, thus my slippery slope post that you chose not to respond to. Fresh fish, trout included, is available at the grocery store every day of the year, and that should be all it takes to give you that same sense of excitement.

Thanks for the discussion. My point is that years ago fishing was OK in the Ram with a 4 fish limit. It should be OK today with a 1 fish limit. I am 100% for limits. I hate zero limits because it removes my option to keep mortally hooked fish.
I think I have explained thoroughly my opinion on the lack of excitement in C&R streams. Again, it is like shooting a popgun at the zebras at the zoo. No challenge. No reason. No fun. Anyone can do it Kiddie streams.
The fish at a grocery store issue...really...does it need explaining. OK, prepare for the obvious. Man is not far removed from being hunter/ gatherer. Succesful humans are genetically inclined to want to hunt/seek/compete/ succeed.
Further, as a child, do you remember the thrill of an elder coming home with a catch. Have you ever brought home a catch to educate and inspire family members. Have you ever had a family get together to eat a fish. Has anyone ever instilled the righteousness of only killing what you are willing to eat. Maybe I'm lucky, but I remember these things and I am grateful.
I hope this helps you wrap your head around it.

[clamlinguine]

In a catch and keep situation in a fishing spot that can't sustain keeping (but can sustain deaths through release?) there will eventually be tags and draws. My prediction..... The fishing in alberta can't sustain either catch and release or catch and keep beyond a certain point. As our human population increases its inevitable.

I'd rather be able to catch a couple fish and eat them than catch and release. I'm not much of a fisherman though, so I might be in the minority. I see no joy in catching and releasing numerous fish in a day and going home with nothing to eat but still possibly having killed fish inadvertently.

Right on brother! LOL

[RisingRainbows]

Thanks for the discussion. My point is that years ago fishing was OK in the Ram with a 4 fish limit. It should be OK today with a 1 fish limit. I am 100% for limits. I hate zero limits because it removes my option to keep mortally hooked fish.
I think I have explained thoroughly my opinion on the lack of excitement in C&R streams. Again, it is like shooting a popgun at the zebras at the zoo. No challenge. No reason. No fun. Anyone can do it Kiddie streams.
The fish at a grocery store issue...really...does it need explaining. OK, prepare for the obvious. Man is not far removed from being hunter/ gatherer. Succesful humans are genetically inclined to want to hunt/seek/compete/ succeed.
Further, as a child, do you remember the thrill of an elder coming home with a catch. Have you ever brought home a catch to educate and inspire family members. Have you ever had a family get together to eat a fish. Has anyone ever instilled the righteousness of only killing what you are willing to eat. Maybe I'm lucky, but I remember these things and I am grateful.
I hope this helps you wrap your head around it.
You're in favor of a one fish limit but 0 is barbaric... You stop fishing after you keep one? 'Cause after that one you're just as barbaric as the rest of us...

[Don Andersen]

Thanks for the discussion. My point is that years ago fishing was OK in the Ram with a 4 fish limit. It should be OK today with a 1 fish limit. I am 100% for limits. I hate zero limits because it removes my option to keep mortally hooked fish.
I think I have explained thoroughly my opinion on the lack of excitement in C&R streams. Again, it is like shooting a popgun at the zebras at the zoo. No challenge. No reason. No fun. Anyone can do it Kiddie streams.
The fish at a grocery store issue...really...does it need explaining. OK, prepare for the obvious. Man is not far removed from being hunter/ gatherer. Succesful humans are genetically inclined to want to hunt/seek/compete/ succeed.
Further, as a child, do you remember the thrill of an elder coming home with a catch. Have you ever brought home a catch to educate and inspire family members. Have you ever had a family get together to eat a fish. Has anyone ever instilled the righteousness of only killing what you are willing to eat. Maybe I'm lucky, but I remember these things and I am grateful.
I hope this helps you wrap your head around it.


Hi,

A Regional Biologist told me he believed that there was less than 300 spawners in the N. Ram. Wouldn't take long to remove them all.
The first year C&R was implemented on the N. Ram, the creel census gal recorded 8 fish caught by all the anglers.
The previous limit had nearly removed all the trout.

Don

[pikergolf]

Hi,

A Regional Biologist told me he believed that there was less than 300 spawners in the N. Ram. Wouldn't take long to remove them all.
The first year C&R was implemented on the N. Ram, the creel census gal recorded 8 fish caught by all the anglers.
The previous limit had nearly removed all the trout.

Don

For some reason people can't see the big picture, they think they are going to be the only people to keep one fish. Alberta has a lot of people, and for whatever reason outdoor activities are now the cool thing to do. It puts a lot of strain on all our resources, fish, birds deer, etc. Even the wild places that people just want to hike in are under pressure by all groups. It's getting crowded and we need to adjust our expectations. Keeping fish will not feasible in most moving waters in the future, just to much pressure.

[RisingRainbows]

Hi,

A Regional Biologist told me he believed that there was less than 300 spawners in the N. Ram. Wouldn't take long to remove them all.
The first year C&R was implemented on the N. Ram, the creel census gal recorded 8 fish caught by all the anglers.
The previous limit had nearly removed all the trout.

Don
This is a scientific opinion from someone who knows more than we do about the data and shows catch and release is necessary in this stream specifically. It's hard to argue with that.

[RisingRainbows]

I think this is an important discussion. I believe catch and release is necessary and will be even more so in the future. The alternative is closing more and more waters completely which would be detrimental. Fisherman are passionate about the streams they fish and without passionate sportsmen, who will speak up to other issues impacting streams such as habitat loss?

[58thecat]

We need people to govern most peoples actions as in catch and release, lake closures etc because people in general do not think long term.
Greedy buggers and left to catch and eat, no limits etc well two generations from now would ask "what's a fish?":scared0015:

[Kurt505]

This is a scientific opinion from someone who knows more than we do about the data and shows catch and release is necessary in this stream specifically. It's hard to argue with that.

What this means to me is that fishing of any kind should put to an end until this is a healthy fishery. Although a catch and release fishery has a low mortality rate, there is still mortalities, and it's not even for food but just for fun which I personally feel is worse.

If conservation truly is the motivating factor behind ones argument, then a total fishing ban shouldn't be a problem but a goal IMO.

[RisingRainbows]

What this means to me is that fishing of any kind should put to an end until this is a healthy fishery. Although a catch and release fishery has a low mortality rate, there is still mortalities, and it's not even for food but just for fun which I personally feel is worse.

If conservation truly is the motivating factor behind ones argument, then a total fishing ban shouldn't be a problem but a goal IMO.
The only problem with a full ban in my opinion is you remove that interaction and attachment to the creek which motivates people to fight for and care about the creek. If a full ban is necessary, I support it, but if catch and release is at all sustainable I think that can be a better option.

[Winch101]

I would estimate that 25 % of the people putting a line in the water
In Alberta are not adhering to any regulation . Poaching is rampant .
We need a bounty hunter system on poachers . Turn in a poacher
Who is indicted and charged ..$1000 . Reward .... Be a nice hobby
And likely pay well . Really doesn't matter what the rank and file do
Cause the poachers are making up for it .

[FlyTheory]

For some reason people can't see the big picture, they think they are going to be the only people to keep one fish. Alberta has a lot of people, and for whatever reason outdoor activities are now the cool thing to do. It puts a lot of strain on all our resources, fish, birds deer, etc. Even the wild places that people just want to hike in are under pressure by all groups. It's getting crowded and we need to adjust our expectations. Keeping fish will not feasible in most moving waters in the future, just to much pressure.

I agree, I feel like a lot of people have a hard time not just looking at the big picture, but also time. Some people don't realize the efforts that it takes to grow trophy fish (in general) and how biologically expensive those fish are. People who cannot look at the big picture, in life, are very limited. It prevents society from progressing in a lot of respects.

The only problem with a full ban in my opinion is you remove that interaction and attachment to the creek which motivates people to fight for and care about the creek. If a full ban is necessary, I support it, but if catch and release is at all sustainable I think that can be a better option.

A full ban is great, and I would support it as well. There is one issue, if there is a ban on an area, your exposure of fishery health will go down hill. No attention from fishermen = less advocates for the waterways. Part of the reason why rivers get so much attention is because of fishermen. I've been to many 3rd were catch and release isn't even a concept, and the fisheries there absolutely suck. Conservation and c&r is the key to our native and wild rivers to exist. If people wanna eat trout, please go to a pot hole or Maligne lake and eat the fish out of there!

[huntsfurfish]

Was going to stay out of this. And avoid the troll but here goes.

There will be room for both groups for a long time if we allow it. And by allow it, I mean dont kick the carp out of each other!

I have been a catch and release fisherman for the last 35 years(long before it became "fashionable" as some would call it or necessary as I and many others would call it).
I still keep an occasional fish to eat and enjoy that ability as well.

I enjoy fishing. Judge me if you must!

[Jayhad]

I would estimate that 25 % of the people putting a line in the water
In Alberta are not adhering to any regulation . Poaching is rampant .
We need a bounty hunter system on poachers . Turn in a poacher
Who is indicted and charged ..$1000 . Reward .... Be a nice hobby
And likely pay well . Really doesn't matter what the rank and file do
Cause the poachers are making up for it .

What a great idea, it reminds me of something....... oh yeah the REPORT A POACHER program

[858king]

On the coast, the only endangered fish are the fish that everybody likes to kill and eat; sockeye, coho, chinook. There's no shortage of pinks or chums. Everybody likes to blame industry and pollution, but the causality seems clear enough, and I used to commercial fish.

Likewise the only productive kill fisheries (on the Island at least) are augmented/stocked fisheries.

I think fisheries like the East Slope should issue tags, maybe two a season. Let people keep the occasional, get some money out of it. Then push the stocking program like crazy. Stock the Bow -- it's not natural. Stock the potholes. Stock the roadside borrow pits in the cities. And in that light, throw those goofy little carp or perch in the borrow pits (not trolling with that comment). Keep the meat fishermen in near the city, don't harsh them, and let them fill their boots with the easy fish. Many meat fishermen/Asians/Europeans seem to prefer goldeye and carp over walleye. Use the irrigation canals as a fishery resource. Promote pay ponds.

There are other methods. Banning powerboats would be a start. Banning sonar and GPS would be another. Upping the fish cop quantity would be a great idea -- forget about dozens of little pedantic rats.

[Kurt505]

On the coast, the only endangered fish are the fish that everybody likes to kill and eat; sockeye, coho, chinook. There's no shortage of pinks or chums. Everybody likes to blame industry and pollution, but the causality seems clear enough, and I used to commercial fish.

Likewise the only productive kill fisheries (on the Island at least) are augmented/stocked fisheries.

I think fisheries like the East Slope should issue tags, maybe two a season. Let people keep the occasional, get some money out of it. Then push the stocking program like crazy. Stock the Bow -- it's not natural. Stock the potholes. Stock the roadside borrow pits in the cities. And in that light, throw those goofy little carp or perch in the borrow pits (not trolling with that comment). Keep the meat fishermen in near the city, don't harsh them, and let them fill their boots with the easy fish. Many meat fishermen/Asians/Europeans seem to prefer goldeye and carp over walleye. Use the irrigation canals as a fishery resource. Promote pay ponds.

There are other methods. Banning powerboats would be a start. Banning sonar and GPS would be another. Upping the fish cop quantity would be a great idea -- forget about dozens of little pedantic rats.

Most of this sounds good. You never mentioned the Rock fish in the Georgia straight though, they are not in the greatest shape either. I do like your position on the stocking programs.

[FlyTheory]

On the coast, the only endangered fish are the fish that everybody likes to kill and eat; sockeye, coho, chinook. There's no shortage of pinks or chums. Everybody likes to blame industry and pollution, but the causality seems clear enough, and I used to commercial fish.

Likewise the only productive kill fisheries (on the Island at least) are augmented/stocked fisheries.

I think fisheries like the East Slope should issue tags, maybe two a season. Let people keep the occasional, get some money out of it. Then push the stocking program like crazy. Stock the Bow -- it's not natural. Stock the potholes. Stock the roadside borrow pits in the cities. And in that light, throw those goofy little carp or perch in the borrow pits (not trolling with that comment). Keep the meat fishermen in near the city, don't harsh them, and let them fill their boots with the easy fish. Many meat fishermen/Asians/Europeans seem to prefer goldeye and carp over walleye. Use the irrigation canals as a fishery resource. Promote pay ponds.

There are other methods. Banning powerboats would be a start. Banning sonar and GPS would be another. Upping the fish cop quantity would be a great idea -- forget about dozens of little pedantic rats.

You have a very solid plan. I like the way you think, and I 100% agree with you. Honestly if we implemented you ideas, we'd be way better off with our fisheries.

[KegRiver]

On the coast, the only endangered fish are the fish that everybody likes to kill and eat; sockeye, coho, chinook. There's no shortage of pinks or chums. Everybody likes to blame industry and pollution, but the causality seems clear enough, and I used to commercial fish.

Likewise the only productive kill fisheries (on the Island at least) are augmented/stocked fisheries.

I think fisheries like the East Slope should issue tags, maybe two a season. Let people keep the occasional, get some money out of it. Then push the stocking program like crazy. Stock the Bow -- it's not natural. Stock the potholes. Stock the roadside borrow pits in the cities. And in that light, throw those goofy little carp or perch in the borrow pits (not trolling with that comment). Keep the meat fishermen in near the city, don't harsh them, and let them fill their boots with the easy fish. Many meat fishermen/Asians/Europeans seem to prefer goldeye and carp over walleye. Use the irrigation canals as a fishery resource. Promote pay ponds.

There are other methods. Banning powerboats would be a start. Banning sonar and GPS would be another. Upping the fish cop quantity would be a great idea -- forget about dozens of little pedantic rats.


I don't know about other areas, I do know a bit about the fish around here.

We have at least seven species of fish in our local rivers that are big enough to be considered table fare. Only four of those are targeted by fisherman.

I started fishing these rivers in the early 1960s and over the years I've seen a major decline in the fish populations, not just the fish targeted by fishermen.

One species is particularly telling. River Chub used to be abundant and annoying. No one I know eat them. Kids would target them for the fun of catching something and some would use them as bait, but typically they got little attention.

In recent years I see no one targeting them, not even kids. Never-the-less their population seems to have dropped further then other species.
It is clear that all populations have decreased considerably.

Back in the day a few people ran nets on the larger rivers, today only Native people may set nets in the local rivers and few of them do.

So are net fishermen the reason for the failing fish populations or is it sport fishermen?

You know what I think. I think it is both and a lot more.

I think it is development, pollution, fishing pressure, a changing environment and increased predation. And maybe some factors we don't even know about.

I think a lot of people, including some natural resources people look at the narrow picture but not the wider picture.

We look at the number of fishermen and the number of fish and think we have it all figured out. But wildlife management is much more complicated then that.
Human harvest, predation, food supply, habitat, disease, competing species and pollution all play a role in any species population dynamics.

We can never manage any population properly if we look only at one or two aspects of the interaction between ourselves and the any other species.

[huntsfurfish]

I don't know about other areas, I do know a bit about the fish around here.

We have at least seven species of fish in our local rivers that are big enough to be considered table fare. Only four of those are targeted by fisherman.

I started fishing these rivers in the early 1960s and over the years I've seen a major decline in the fish populations, not just the fish targeted by fishermen.

One species is particularly telling. River Chub used to be abundant and annoying. No one I know eat them. Kids would target them for the fun of catching something and some would use them as bait, but typically they got little attention.

In recent years I see no one targeting them, not even kids. Never-the-less their population seems to have dropped further then other species.
It is clear that all populations have decreased considerably.

Back in the day a few people ran nets on the larger rivers, today only Native people may set nets in the local rivers and few of them do.

So are net fishermen the reason for the failing fish populations or is it sport fishermen?

You know what I think. I think it is both and a lot more.

I think it is development, pollution, fishing pressure, a changing environment and increased predation. And maybe some factors we don't even know about.

I think a lot of people, including some natural resources people look at the narrow picture but not the wider picture.

We look at the number of fishermen and the number of fish and think we have it all figured out. But wildlife management is much more complicated then that.
Human harvest, predation, food supply, habitat, disease, competing species and pollution all play a role in any species population dynamics.

We can never manage any population properly if we look only at one or two aspects of the interaction between ourselves and the any other species.

Agree, well said Keg!

[RisingRainbows]

On the coast, the only endangered fish are the fish that everybody likes to kill and eat; sockeye, coho, chinook. There's no shortage of pinks or chums. Everybody likes to blame industry and pollution, but the causality seems clear enough, and I used to commercial fish.

Commercial fishing definitely impacts fish populations, however so does pollution and industry. Look at the grayling in Alberta; their populations were decimated by loss of spawning habitat, not overfishing. Keeping fish makes an impact but don't let pollution and industry off the hook.



I think fisheries like the East Slope should issue tags, maybe two a season. Let people keep the occasional, get some money out of it. Then push the stocking program like crazy. Stock the Bow -- it's not natural. Stock the potholes. Stock the roadside borrow pits in the cities. And in that light, throw those goofy little carp or perch in the borrow pits (not trolling with that comment).

I don't think more stocking in our rivers and streams is the answer, I have read evidence that streams are healthier without being supplemented by stocking. I do agree, however, that more stocked fish in places where no fish exist natively (put and take fisheries) does take pressure off native fish.

[858king]

^agree with both posts, more or less.

It seems to my non-scientific eye that the nicer the scenery, the more fragile the fishery. Clean clear water often means food-poor and nearly sterile habitat. Much of the habitat suffers from long winters, too. Combine that with any quantity of pressure and the fishery suffers.

Add to the mix metal mining, and you can have a real doozy. Copper and metal mines can wipe out whole watersheds and often take decades to show. I love copper plumbing as much as the next guy, and I really like gasoline, so can't be a hypocrite about it. But at the same time we ought to demand a reasonable and pragmatic amount of oversight, keep internal combustion vehicles out of rivers and watersheds when necessary -- and in a place like Alberta, that could mean most of the time -- and try to promote 'canned' fisheries.

The only way (I am convinced) to create a useful love for the environment among the population is to both make them work for it and benefit from it. I love the trout ponds I grew up on out there. They've been neglected and are no longer stocked, and in a small way, that's my fault. If we don't work for it views seem to get wonky; think yuppie on one hand and/or quad in redd. It's like a fishing welfare state. If people are tearing up creeks and blasting through springs on quads etc, then OHVs should be banned until the ground is frozen. There's untold millions of sq kms of private land to butcher if so desired, it doesn't need to happen in wild places.

[RisingRainbows]

All good points, 858king

[Astrocyte]

OK, prepare for the obvious. Man is not far removed from being hunter/ gatherer. Succesful humans are genetically inclined to want to hunt/seek/compete/ succeed.

I hope you do not buy from a grocery store then. That would go against your genetic nature.

Further, as a child, do you remember the thrill of an elder coming home with a catch. Have you ever brought home a catch to educate and inspire family members. Have you ever had a family get together to eat a fish. Has anyone ever instilled the righteousness of only killing what you are willing to eat. Maybe I'm lucky, but I remember these things and I am grateful.
I hope this helps you wrap your head around it.

I cannot speak for others but for myself my favorite memories of the outdoors were the fishing trips my Dad took me on. He would take me out in the boat and actually let me catch my own fish. I never had to wait for the catch to come home to see it. The thrill of fishing came from being there first hand. I learned the process of how we end up with that catch. From selecting which hooks worked best for certain fish, how water depth affects which fish are around, the bait selection, how to set the hook and bring the fish in correctly, the identifying markers on fish to know what I caught (and where not to place my fingers to avoid cuts), the importance of being careful handling the fish, and believe it or not the good thing of releasing fish to let someone else have the fun as well. To me that learning out on the lake was far more impressionable than just seeing the fish being brought home by someone else. I am beyond grateful that I learned all that I did out on the water from my Dad. And when I have a child they will be learning the same things. Still today I get a thrill out of any fish I catch, I would not bother fishing if it did not give me excitement each time a fish is on the hook.







Side note. What is the current fine rate for poaching? Is it still $1000 a fish or does that only apply to walleye?-thought I read it was only for walleye.

[KegRiver]

Look at the grayling in Alberta; their populations were decimated by loss of spawning habitat, not overfishing. Keeping fish makes an impact but don't let pollution and industry off the hook.


Grayling are one of the species I had in mind.

They used to be abundant around here and some remain. But to the best of my knowledge they have never been popular with anglers in this district and I have never heard of them being caught in a net in the area.

But their numbers have decreased considerably. No one seems to know just how much.
I do know that in the 40s and 50s some trappers would make rock traps to catch them to use for dog food on their trap lines. My dad was one of those trappers and he described to me where when and how to catch them using rock traps. He talked about using a short plank to stun them and being able to fill a half dozen grain sack with them in a couple of days with this method. He described the river coming alive with a carpet of moving fish when they were moving down steam for the winter.

I've often thought of trying to catch them with fly fishing gear at the time and place he suggested but have not because others I know have tried with no success. Yet I have caught small Grayling in the upper stretches of that same river.

From what my dad described I should be able to see them in the pools here at the right time of year but even though I have looked I have yet to see one at the time and place he specified.

I can only conclude that there just aren't enough around now to be able to spot them without investing inordinate amounts of time to the quest.

But if that's the case, what happened to them ? Nets and angling clearly are not the reason for their appearance scarcity.

The only thing I can find that might explain the apparent decline is development. There has been a huge amount of oilfield activity in the upper reaches of these rivers which is apparently where the Grayling breed and spend their summer.

Thing is, I can only guess and no one is doing any research into the situation because there is no public interest in the matter. Few even know that Grayling occur here.

[bigrfish]

What's to judge huntsfurfish....Aren't we all catch and release fisherman for the most part. If we fish a waterbody with a harvest, do we stop fishing when we have our limit? What about the fish that aren't retainable? What's needed are better site specific regs for the waterbodys we fish. And, a little sense.
I love to fish..I love to teach my kids and friends how to fish,and I love to eat fish, as does my family. If a waterbody is deemed susceptible then close the damn thing and let it recover. Catch and release only is not the end all solution...although I appreciate the effort people put in to fish those waters knowing they can't harvest fish. Some folks just love to fish and may not want to harvest...and that's fine with me. Clam is of the right mind I believe...Without death there is no renewal...and either way, keep or release there will be death. It's how we manage the death part that matters.
I agree that we all love to fish, and beating each other up over keeping or releasing fish is counterproductive.
What people need to change is where, what, how and why they fish.
Would it kill people to go single barbless on a lake like Wabamun or our foothills streams for example? Does it not make sense to leave the bigger walleye in deeper water alone? Would debarbing our crankbaits, or limiting the use of multiple treble hooks, really affect our enjoyment of fishing?
The culture we breed as people who love to fish in Alberta will determine our waterbodies fate...Laws and regulations only go so far.
It's ok to eat fish...we just have to realize that there is only so much to go around. Our government needs to realize this as well. I believe, as others have said, there are plenty of opportunities for everyone to get out and enjoy what our province has to offer...we just have to take care of it.
I know..tough task..considering that most anglers don't participate in forums or discussions that may require them to think a little...
Happiness is being out there! Cheers.

[clamlinguine]

What's to judge huntsfurfish....Aren't we all catch and release fisherman for the most part. If we fish a waterbody with a harvest, do we stop fishing when we have our limit? What about the fish that aren't retainable? What's needed are better site specific regs for the waterbodys we fish. And, a little sense.
I love to fish..I love to teach my kids and friends how to fish,and I love to eat fish, as does my family. If a waterbody is deemed susceptible then close the damn thing and let it recover. Catch and release only is not the end all solution...although I appreciate the effort people put in to fish those waters knowing they can't harvest fish. Some folks just love to fish and may not want to harvest...and that's fine with me. Clam is of the right mind I believe...Without death there is no renewal...and either way, keep or release there will be death. It's how we manage the death part that matters.
I agree that we all love to fish, and beating each other up over keeping or releasing fish is counterproductive.
What people need to change is where, what, how and why they fish.
Would it kill people to go single barbless on a lake like Wabamun or our foothills streams for example? Does it not make sense to leave the bigger walleye in deeper water alone? Would debarbing our crankbaits, or limiting the use of multiple treble hooks, really affect our enjoyment of fishing?
The culture we breed as people who love to fish in Alberta will determine our waterbodies fate...Laws and regulations only go so far.
It's ok to eat fish...we just have to realize that there is only so much to go around. Our government needs to realize this as well. I believe, as others have said, there are plenty of opportunities for everyone to get out and enjoy what our province has to offer...we just have to take care of it.
I know..tough task..considering that most anglers don't participate in forums or discussions that may require them to think a little...
Happiness is being out there! Cheers.

Very Nice

[Walleyedude]

Thanks for the discussion. My point is that years ago fishing was OK in the Ram with a 4 fish limit. It should be OK today with a 1 fish limit. I am 100% for limits. I hate zero limits because it removes my option to keep mortally hooked fish.
I think I have explained thoroughly my opinion on the lack of excitement in C&R streams. Again, it is like shooting a popgun at the zebras at the zoo. No challenge. No reason. No fun. Anyone can do it Kiddie streams.
The fish at a grocery store issue...really...does it need explaining. OK, prepare for the obvious. Man is not far removed from being hunter/ gatherer. Succesful humans are genetically inclined to want to hunt/seek/compete/ succeed.
Further, as a child, do you remember the thrill of an elder coming home with a catch. Have you ever brought home a catch to educate and inspire family members. Have you ever had a family get together to eat a fish. Has anyone ever instilled the righteousness of only killing what you are willing to eat. Maybe I'm lucky, but I remember these things and I am grateful.
I hope this helps you wrap your head around it.

I still don't get it lol. I don't get the distinction between enjoying the thrill of the catch when you can vs. when you can't keep.

I'm not sure where you're fishing that there is no challenge and no fun in catching the fish, but it's obviously the wrong place if that's your opinion of C&R fishing. I agree that fishing without the challenge quickly gets old, for me, the challenge of catching is the essence of fishing. I can assure you that's not the case on the water bodies I fish, whether they be C&R or they have a retention limit, it is almost always a challenge to catch fish, especially the big ones.

As for our innate desire to be out in nature hunting and fishing, I couldn't agree more. That's why your position seems so hypocritical to me. The thrill is NOT in the keeping, the thrill is in the challenge of finding and catching the fish. That's why the idea that fishing is pointless or not enjoyable without keeping just doesn't make sense to me. Whether you realize or not, I think you agree with that, otherwise you would just go to the store, you wouldn't have the desire to to go out and do the fishing yourself.

I remember the odd stringer of fish coming home as a kid, I don't remember it having a big impact on me. Like someone else mentioned above, I have much fonder memories of actually being taken out fishing as a kid. I learned the enjoyment of keeping, filleting, and eating a fish, and I learned to respect that process. More importantly though in my opinion, I learned to appreciate the time out on the water as being about far more than filling the freezer. I learned to appreciate the nature around me, the subtleties and challenge of catching the fish, and most importantly for me, the enjoyment that you can get from watching a healthy fish swim away to maintain a healthy fish population and continue to have opportunity in the future.

I'm passionate about fishing, but I'm not unaware that my activity has an impact on fish and fish populations and I do everything I can to minimize that impact. I'd love to be able to catch and keep on AB's lakes, but I realize that's simply not a realistic option. When given the choice between choosing C&R and having a good fishery where fish are plentiful and a retention system where fish populations are poor and simply catching a fish is a rare event, there's not a moment's hesitation, I take C&R every time all the time. I agree about having the ability to keep a fish or two, I'd love to have that ability too. It's unfortunate that some sort of a tag system looks to be the way things are going, but it does seem like the best management system for AB's waterways.

[Walleyedude]

Was going to stay out of this. And avoid the troll but here goes.

There will be room for both groups for a long time if we allow it. And by allow it, I mean dont kick the carp out of each other!

I have been a catch and release fisherman for the last 35 years(long before it became "fashionable" as some would call it or necessary as I and many others would call it).
I still keep an occasional fish to eat and enjoy that ability as well.

I enjoy fishing. Judge me if you must!

Well said.

We ALL lose when we start fracturing the fishing community. It's a very slippery slope when we start drawing lines of what's "right" or "moral" based on your personal opinion. You don't have to look too far to see the consequences of this kind of thinking.

[Walleyedude]

What's to judge huntsfurfish....Aren't we all catch and release fisherman for the most part. If we fish a waterbody with a harvest, do we stop fishing when we have our limit? What about the fish that aren't retainable? What's needed are better site specific regs for the waterbodys we fish. And, a little sense.
I love to fish..I love to teach my kids and friends how to fish,and I love to eat fish, as does my family. If a waterbody is deemed susceptible then close the damn thing and let it recover. Catch and release only is not the end all solution...although I appreciate the effort people put in to fish those waters knowing they can't harvest fish. Some folks just love to fish and may not want to harvest...and that's fine with me. Clam is of the right mind I believe...Without death there is no renewal...and either way, keep or release there will be death. It's how we manage the death part that matters.
I agree that we all love to fish, and beating each other up over keeping or releasing fish is counterproductive.
What people need to change is where, what, how and why they fish.
Would it kill people to go single barbless on a lake like Wabamun or our foothills streams for example? Does it not make sense to leave the bigger walleye in deeper water alone? Would debarbing our crankbaits, or limiting the use of multiple treble hooks, really affect our enjoyment of fishing?
The culture we breed as people who love to fish in Alberta will determine our waterbodies fate...Laws and regulations only go so far.
It's ok to eat fish...we just have to realize that there is only so much to go around. Our government needs to realize this as well. I believe, as others have said, there are plenty of opportunities for everyone to get out and enjoy what our province has to offer...we just have to take care of it.
I know..tough task..considering that most anglers don't participate in forums or discussions that may require them to think a little...
Happiness is being out there! Cheers.

Excellent post!

[Lefty-Canuck]

Excellent post!

I agree...great post.

Remember 100% of the fish retained die, a significant less amount that are caught and released die....:)

Food for thought :)

LC

[clamlinguine]

I hope you do not buy from a grocery store then. That would go against your genetic nature.



I cannot speak for others but for myself my favorite memories of the outdoors were the fishing trips my Dad took me on. He would take me out in the boat and actually let me catch my own fish. I never had to wait for the catch to come home to see it. The thrill of fishing came from being there first hand. I learned the process of how we end up with that catch. From selecting which hooks worked best for certain fish, how water depth affects which fish are around, the bait selection, how to set the hook and bring the fish in correctly, the identifying markers on fish to know what I caught (and where not to place my fingers to avoid cuts), the importance of being careful handling the fish, and believe it or not the good thing of releasing fish to let someone else have the fun as well. To me that learning out on the lake was far more impressionable than just seeing the fish being brought home by someone else. I am beyond grateful that I learned all that I did out on the water from my Dad. And when I have a child they will be learning the same things. Still today I get a thrill out of any fish I catch, I would not bother fishing if it did not give me excitement each time a fish is on the hook.


Haha...well actually I dont eat farmed fish anymore due to the bad press for that industry.

As for your childhood memories, you must be a lot younger than me and I will leave it at that. My family did the Kiddie fishing of course but it was the super trips to the remote mountains where the going was too tough for kids that really caught my imagination.

[clamlinguine]

You're in favor of a one fish limit but 0 is barbaric... You stop fishing after you keep one? 'Cause after that one you're just as barbaric as the rest of us...

Hey, I stated earlier you should be fishing to eat or the idea of eating fish. See, thats called a loophole, for both of us. Personally, if my limit is full, from that point on I am merely conducting a census for future eating, lmao.

Seriously though, because I fish with a non fish eating buddy, I have room for four keepers. I dont usually fill that quota because fish that get off my hook cleanly are seldom kept.

[clamlinguine]

I agree about having the ability to keep a fish or two,

Hallelujah!

You should go back to page 3 and I think you will see answers to most of your challenges and probably have a few chuckles to boot. I did.

[drhu22]

Excellent post!

I was about to say the same.

[Don Andersen]

Grayling are one of the species I had in mind.

They used to be abundant around here and some remain. But to the best of my knowledge they have never been popular with anglers in this district and I have never heard of them being caught in a net in the area.

But their numbers have decreased considerably. No one seems to know just how much.
I do know that in the 40s and 50s some trappers would make rock traps to catch them to use for dog food on their trap lines. My dad was one of those trappers and he described to me where when and how to catch them using rock traps. He talked about using a short plank to stun them and being able to fill a half dozen grain sack with them in a couple of days with this method. He described the river coming alive with a carpet of moving fish when they were moving down steam for the winter.

I've often thought of trying to catch them with fly fishing gear at the time and place he suggested but have not because others I know have tried with no success. Yet I have caught small Grayling in the upper stretches of that same river.

From what my dad described I should be able to see them in the pools here at the right time of year but even though I have looked I have yet to see one at the time and place he specified.

I can only conclude that there just aren't enough around now to be able to spot them without investing inordinate amounts of time to the quest.

But if that's the case, what happened to them ? Nets and angling clearly are not the reason for their appearance scarcity.

The only thing I can find that might explain the apparent decline is development. There has been a huge amount of oilfield activity in the upper reaches of these rivers which is apparently where the Grayling breed and spend their summer.

Thing is, I can only guess and no one is doing any research into the situation because there is no public interest in the matter. Few even know that Grayling occur here.

Keg...

I recall being at a ACA meeting where the ACA described how they spent our money. One presentation talked of fish passage issues in the Swan Hills grayling streams. The presenter described how 700 of 900 culverts/bridges checked didn't allow fish passage. For a migrating spawner like grayling, this means death. When I asked representatives of Fisheries and Oceans & Alberta Govt what they were going to do with the evidence, they replied "nothing".

It seems like the only response by Govt is to limit angling rather than deal with the issues really effecting fisheries. No one ever sold a license to cows, pipelines, clear cuts etc.

And regarding Grayling. The Northern Lites/Trout Unlimited guys have a grayling project ongoing.
See: http://www.nlft.org/category/conservation-projects/

Regards,


Don

[Kurt505]

It seems like the only response by Govt is to limit angling rather than deal with the issues really effecting fisheries. No one ever sold a license to cows, pipelines, clear cuts etc.



Regards,


Don


The government is taking the exact same approach with our wildlife as they are with our fisheries. Honestly they are like a bunch of kindergarten kids playing dress up. They got on the right costume on, but have no idea what to do with it.

[wind drift]

The grayling situation is not good: http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/fisheries-management/fish-sustainability-index/fsi-species-maps/arctic-grayling-fsi.aspx

These are the poster fish for cumulative effects. Climate change and the drought are making the situation worse. It is interesting that the Little Smoky population, where there has been no legal harvest for many years, is still relatively healthy.

[KegRiver]

Keg...

I recall being at a ACA meeting where the ACA described how they spent our money. One presentation talked of fish passage issues in the Swan Hills grayling streams. The presenter described how 700 of 900 culverts/bridges checked didn't allow fish passage. For a migrating spawner like grayling, this means death. When I asked representatives of Fisheries and Oceans & Alberta Govt what they were going to do with the evidence, they replied "nothing".


Don

Very interesting, that could at least partially explain the decline of the species in this area.

I came in late on a discussion about this very issue last evening at a local gathering. The discussion when I joined was about how farm chemicals were responsible for the decline.

Now keep in mind that at that point in the discussion I had not participated. It seems that several other locals have observed the same thing as I have and came to the same conclusion.

Anyway, I pointed out that two of the rivers most effected so far as I could tell, have zero agricultural development along their course, thus ruling out farm chemicals as the primary reason for the decline.

But there are culverts along their course, in the oilfields out west.
Being that those roads are privet build and maintained the standards for how those culverts are installed and maintained may be very different from government installed and maintained culverts.

I do know that erosion seems to get less attention along these roads then on public roads. Silt fences are non existent for the most part, except with very recent construction.
That might play a role as well.

I think the key to why nothing is done is because there is no public interest in the species.
Government is supposed to manage all wildlife for the benefit of all interested parties, but as often as not they manage wildlife as a cash crop for government coffers.
Most unfortunate is that the people at the top make all the decisions and the people at the bottom get all the blame.

[chad66]

Grayling are one of the species I had in mind.

They used to be abundant around here and some remain. But to the best of my knowledge they have never been popular with anglers in this district and I have never heard of them being caught in a net in the area.

But their numbers have decreased considerably. No one seems to know just how much.
I do know that in the 40s and 50s some trappers would make rock traps to catch them to use for dog food on their trap lines. My dad was one of those trappers and he described to me where when and how to catch them using rock traps. He talked about using a short plank to stun them and being able to fill a half dozen grain sack with them in a couple of days with this method. He described the river coming alive with a carpet of moving fish when they were moving down steam for the winter.

I've often thought of trying to catch them with fly fishing gear at the time and place he suggested but have not because others I know have tried with no success. Yet I have caught small Grayling in the upper stretches of that same river.

From what my dad described I should be able to see them in the pools here at the right time of year but even though I have looked I have yet to see one at the time and place he specified.

I can only conclude that there just aren't enough around now to be able to spot them without investing inordinate amounts of time to the quest.

But if that's the case, what happened to them ? Nets and angling clearly are not the reason for their appearance scarcity.

The only thing I can find that might explain the apparent decline is development. There has been a huge amount of oilfield activity in the upper reaches of these rivers which is apparently where the Grayling breed and spend their summer.

Thing is, I can only guess and no one is doing any research into the situation because there is no public interest in the matter. Few even know that Grayling occur here.




I Agree that our declining fish stocks is a multifaceted problem and it is difficult to point a finger one way or the other conclusively, however the literature supports the idea that fish were targeted on the peace River drainage when the opportunity arose.

Here are a few quotes from the book, a Candle in the Grub Box
"Visiting native told us that there were lots of fish in the Wolverine river they were Goldeye .... he caught three barrels of fish salting them and filling the barrels with water."

" ...they had seen fish in the Keg, the water was very low and was alive with suckers... And caught about a hundred."

"...on the way back we camped on a high bank of the paddle River across from Eleske ...it was brilliant moonlight...suddenly Allie said, listen! What is it I asked? It's fish said Allie...the river was in pools, nearly dry and not frozen over. Sure enough, grayling trout with moon shining on them, were jumping from one pool to another. They would flip along, lay still a minute and then go on again, always in the right direction...bring the water Pail...in a short time we caught a couple dozen."

My wife's grandfather told me stories of fly fishing the Kakisa River in the early 60's. He said there were so many grayling at the base of the falls that you could see their backs sticking out of the water and could catch them at your feet with your landing net if you were so inclined. I don't think there is any industry on the Kakisa yet the grayling are not nearly as abundant.

Chad

[Walleyedude]

Hallelujah!

You should go back to page 3 and I think you will see answers to most of your challenges and probably have a few chuckles to boot. I did.

It's unfortunate you chose to cherry pick a single line of my post and essentially misquote me and then ignore the rest.

I'll stop here.

[Don Andersen]

Here is a light read.
See: page #7 of http://esrd.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/fisheries-management/documents/FisheriesManagementAlberta-Nov2014.pdf

Both the anglers and general population sees value in conservation and/or preservation of fisheries.

Now - how do we kick start Govt?


Don

[huntsfurfish]

Hallelujah!

You should go back to page 3 and I think you will see answers to most of your challenges and probably have a few chuckles to boot. I did.

:):):):):):):):):):)

[RisingRainbows]

Both the anglers and general population sees value in conservation and/or preservation of fisheries.

Now - how do we kick start Govt?



That's the important question. I've tried contacting MPs and MLAs...

[chad66]

I'm one of the old time crowd. I do not believe in catch and release. I believe that if I'm not going to eat the thing I catch I should leave it alone! But I realize that there are other types of people out there,and I'll not criticize. BUT!! Where the heck can an old man catch his fish dinner anymore in Alberta? It seems to be catch and release everywhere for most types of fish. I suppose Koi is good to eat since the Chinese are growing in numbers but ....

I like trout, pike and real fish like these :confused:


The Peace River has generous limits. The walleye fishing is excellent right now and they are most delicious.

[thumper]

Seriously though, because I fish with a non fish eating buddy, I have room for four keepers. I dont usually fill that quota because fish that get off my hook cleanly are seldom kept.

Actually, you don't 'have room for four keepers'. You are entitled to fill your own license, not the licenses of everybody in your company. Once you've retained your own quota, you can continue to fish and release fish, but not retain any more. Same with hunting licenses, you can't 'fill' other peoples tags. The difference in hunting is that there's not an option of 'releasing' further animals that you've shot, so after you've taken your own quota, you must cease hunting.

Many cultures frown on 'playing with your food'. Many native American cultures disagree with catch & release fishing as disrespecting the resource and unnecessarily antagonizing your food. In Canada's north, territorial hunting laws require hunters to pack out all usable meat, BEFORE packing out the trophy head. This underlines the native cultural influence in placing the importance of respecting animals as food first, before the self stroking of ego. To fool a fish into taking a hook, then having it fight for its life, only to release it with a 'look how clever I am - ha, ha, - fooled you', again and again and again does seem a little egocentric.

I'm one of those people that have a difficult time just 'going for a hike'. My hikes must have a purpose, like picking mushrooms, finding wild onions, or searching for shed antlers. While I enjoy photographing wild life, it certainly doesn't give the same satisfaction or intensity as hunting.

To me, catch & release and animal photography (both of which I practice) are both acting in an artificial, contrived manner. These are not natural behaviours that we see in nature, they are somewhat apart from nature.

While catch & consume, as well as hunting, allow me to fully participate in nature.

That said - I think there's room for both approaches, as long as one doesn't 'trump' the other.

[EZM]

Lot's of opinions on here. I don't agree with all of them - but I do respect them.

Unfortunately - it doesn't matter on what YOU want or HOW IT USED TO BE it matters on what harvest a watershed can sustain TODAY and in the future.

That's precisely how fisheries and resource management should be handled. we need more ESRD folks to do this properly.

It should also be noted each watershed in a province like Alberta needs to be managed individually due to the high pressure and few watersheds. There are places where a general limit would work fine and others that would lead to exacerbation of that species pretty quickly from that watershed leading to a collapsed fishery.

Any blanket statement (or policy) of any kind will, inevitably, be inaccurate on some, or many, occasions.

Another general comment - catch and release does not need to be high mortality. People who use single or single barbless hooks or keep the fish in the water to remove the hooks or simply avoid the use of bait, fishing from a maximum depth on vulnerable species, etc... etc.... do allow lower mortality rates in released fish.

I was at a trophy fishery this weekend. We caught maybe a 100 fish between 2 of us. Only 3 or 4 fish came out of the water ALL weekend.

We caught many fish and, in almost every case, I leaned over the edge of the boat and removed a hook with a pair of pliers quickly, painlessly and with little or no long term harm to the fish. Most of the time I didn't even need to handle the fish or lift his head out of the water.

C+R is not the same for all folks - I think we need to focus on education and training for youngsters.

[pinelakeperch]

Actually, you don't 'have room for four keepers'. You are entitled to fill your own license, not the licenses of everybody in your company. Once you've retained your own quota, you can continue to fish and release fish, but not retain any more. Same with hunting licenses, you can't 'fill' other peoples tags. The difference in hunting is that there's not an option of 'releasing' further animals that you've shot, so after you've taken your own quota, you must cease hunting.

Many cultures frown on 'playing with your food'. Many native American cultures disagree with catch & release fishing as disrespecting the resource and unnecessarily antagonizing your food. In Canada's north, territorial hunting laws require hunters to pack out all usable meat, BEFORE packing out the trophy head. This underlines the native cultural influence in placing the importance of respecting animals as food first, before the self stroking of ego. To fool a fish into taking a hook, then having it fight for its life, only to release it with a 'look how clever I am - ha, ha, - fooled you', again and again and again does seem a little egocentric.

I'm one of those people that have a difficult time just 'going for a hike'. My hikes must have a purpose, like picking mushrooms, finding wild onions, or searching for shed antlers. While I enjoy photographing wild life, it certainly doesn't give the same satisfaction or intensity as hunting.

To me, catch & release and animal photography (both of which I practice) are both acting in an artificial, contrived manner. These are not natural behaviours that we see in nature, they are somewhat apart from nature.

While catch & consume, as well as hunting, allow me to fully participate in nature.

That said - I think there's room for both approaches, as long as one doesn't 'trump' the other.

I can't say I've ever caught a fish, released it, then thought to myself "look how clever I am, fooling a fish". It has nothing to do with "stroking ego". It has absolutely everything to do with me being in love being outdoors and doing so with a line in the water, rain or shine.

I fish at an intensity in which keeping everything I caught would not only put a dent in the fishery, but put a lot of fish to waste.

[SNAPFisher]

I was catching fish in the South Ram before the C&R regulations, it was good fishing. You didnt open your car door, step out and catch your limit though. You had to work a bit and there was some excitement when you hooked into one. I think the limit was 4 a day back then.

I was OK with the closure at the time because I thought "Ya think how great fishing will be when it reopens"! lol

LOL! Like the woolly mammoth, you too will be extinct one day.

[Walleyedude]

I'm pretty disappointed in some of the responses in this thread from fellow outdoorsmen.

We ALL live in a glass house as outdoorsmen - hunters and fishermen. ALL of us disturb wildlife in some form or another as part of our personal enjoyment of the outdoors, it's impossible to claim otherwise. We ALL stand to lose when we start tearing down our fellow sportsmen based on our personal opinions of their chosen activity. It's hypocritical, and sets a dangerous precedence for ALL of us that want to be able to continue to pursue our outdoor passions.

[clamlinguine]

It's unfortunate you chose to cherry pick a single line of my post and essentially misquote me and then ignore the rest.

I'll stop here.

Sorry you didn't see the humour.

[clamlinguine]

LOL! Like the woolly mammoth, you too will be extinct one day.

Could you clarify this please.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Maybe Alberta just has wimpy fish.

Seems you can catch and release Bass all day long, keep them in live wells and in bags of water for hours on end.
Then seemingly release them back into the water where they get caught again and again and again.

Seems to work that way with tournaments

Is there something about that species that makes them more
"Survivable"?

[KegRiver]

I Agree that our declining fish stocks is a multifaceted problem and it is difficult to point a finger one way or the other conclusively, however the literature supports the idea that fish were targeted on the peace River drainage when the opportunity arose.

Here are a few quotes from the book, a Candle in the Grub Box
"Visiting native told us that there were lots of fish in the Wolverine river they were Goldeye .... he caught three barrels of fish salting them and filling the barrels with water."

" ...they had seen fish in the Keg, the water was very low and was alive with suckers... And caught about a hundred."

"...on the way back we camped on a high bank of the paddle River across from Eleske ...it was brilliant moonlight...suddenly Allie said, listen! What is it I asked? It's fish said Allie...the river was in pools, nearly dry and not frozen over. Sure enough, grayling trout with moon shining on them, were jumping from one pool to another. They would flip along, lay still a minute and then go on again, always in the right direction...bring the water Pail...in a short time we caught a couple dozen."

My wife's grandfather told me stories of fly fishing the Kakisa River in the early 60's. He said there were so many grayling at the base of the falls that you could see their backs sticking out of the water and could catch them at your feet with your landing net if you were so inclined. I don't think there is any industry on the Kakisa yet the grayling are not nearly as abundant.

Chad

That is talking about things before I was born. Around 1930. Shortly after Louise died believe.

Dad moved to Keg River about that time and reported the same sort of thing.
Cool reading it in Franks own words.

I don't know about Kakisa but I'm sure i would have been the same.

Of interest, it seemed to me the big decline in the Peace River started when they built the Bennett Dam.

I guess it depends on one's prospective what a generous limit is. I wouldn't call this years limits generous. 3, 3, 10, doesn not sound great to me.
It was 5, 10,10 a few years ago. And the Grayling limit is 0 even though no one has been targeting them fo over 50 years that I know of.
Even so Grayling are closed to angling throughout NB3.

Clearly something is very wrong and it's not anglers that are the cause.

The Peace River system gets a fraction the fishing pressure that the Bow, the Red Deer and the North Saskatchiwin get and yet out fish stocks are way lower. Our rivers are closed for seven months of the year, the Bow is only closed for two months, the Red Deer is closed for five months and the North Saskatchwin is closed for five months. This is for the lower sections which harbor the same species as the Peace River.

I see one big differance between the southren rivers and the Peace River.

There are three big pulp mills on the Peace system and none I know of on the southern rivers. Whether that has anything to do with it I don't know.

[chad66]

That is talking about things before I was born. Around 1930. Shortly after Louise died believe.

Dad moved to Keg River about that time and reported the same sort of thing.
Cool reading it in Franks own words.

I don't know about Kakisa but I'm sure i would have been the same.

Of interest, it seemed to me the big decline in the Peace River started when they built the Bennett Dam.

I guess it depends on one's prospective what a generous limit is. I wouldn't call this years limits generous. 3, 3, 10, doesn not sound great to me.
It was 5, 10,10 a few years ago. And the Grayling limit is 0 even though no one has been targeting them fo over 50 years that I know of.
Even so Grayling are closed to angling throughout NB3.

Clearly something is very wrong and it's not anglers that are the cause.

The Peace River system gets a fraction the fishing pressure that the Bow, the Red Deer and the North Saskatchiwin get and yet out fish stocks are way lower. Our rivers are closed for seven months of the year, the Bow is only closed for two months, the Red Deer is closed for five months and the North Saskatchwin is closed for five months. This is for the lower sections which harbor the same species as the Peace River.

I see one big differance between the southren rivers and the Peace River.

There are three big pulp mills on the Peace system and none I know of on the southern rivers. Whether that has anything to do with it I don't know.



I concur the Bennett Dam being a factor. I also agree that oil and gas in the headwaters along with pulp mills being detrimental to fish stocks and that there are less fish in the river system now compared to long ago. How many fewer fish??? I have no idea. In the 80's there were only a few locals who fished the popular spots around here like the mouth of the Boyer River, Caribou River, or wabasca rivers and the limit was 5 walleye then like you mentioned.

Nowadays the boat launch is very busy. Saturday morning I thought I would sneak out and catch my breakfast I was at the dock before 7. I was the second boat there and two others launched after me while I waited 10 minutes for my fishing partner to show up. We caught our limit of walleye and I imagine everyone else caught fish too. There are a lot more people fishing up north here than ever before.

I saw a small barge about two weeks ago Heading to carcajou from the ferry landing. There were at minimum 12 children and 4 adults; each carried a fishing rod.

Back in the 60's and 70's as you know, there were many more people who lived, travelled and relied on the River. Many of them also kept dogs. Legal and illegal netting and trapping of fish was common on the River system at that time and tons of fish were caught and used every year and yet the River never seem to run out of fish. Nowadays we need to do things differently in order to ensure healthy fish stocks. Maybe it is as simple as removing one dam and shutting down three pulp mills?
Chad

[goldscud]

Its interesting that people will travel across the globe, spending thousands of dollars for the chance to catch a steelhead....that they would never dream of killing...and it seems the people like it, share their passion with their kids, donate money for conservation of stocks. Who could of imagined that there is more to fishing than eating the critter.
Please feel free to insert any other high prized game fish (bonefish/tarpon/trevally/big ocean predators).
Fish are not an unlimited resource, and human population growth and habitat interference does not seem to be stopping any time soon. Perhaps we could be better stewards of the resources that we have left.
Catch and release seems like it could be a good tool where stocks are under pressure.

[KegRiver]

Its interesting that people will travel across the globe, spending thousands of dollars for the chance to catch a steelhead....that they would never dream of killing...and it seems the people like it, share their passion with their kids, donate money for conservation of stocks. Who could of imagined that there is more to fishing than eating the critter.
Please feel free to insert any other high prized game fish (bonefish/tarpon/trevally/big ocean predators).
Fish are not an unlimited resource, and human population growth and habitat interference does not seem to be stopping any time soon. Perhaps we could be better stewards of the resources that we have left.
Catch and release seems like it could be a good tool where stocks are under pressure.

In some parts of the world people have been fishing for over 3,000 years and there are still fish in those places.

There is no natural cause that would make fish a limited resource, only man made causes. Like dams with no fish ladders, Dams that alter the river flow to the point it hurts fish spawning or survival rates.
Pollution, silt intrusion due to construction and industrial development.
The list goes on and on.

[Kim473]

I still think that closeing all or some lakes would help the fishery 10 fold. Or make them all C&R for a year or two every once in a while.
Let mother nature do her thing. She knows best.

10,000 fish laying 1000 eggs each with a survival of 1/2 would increase our fishery 10 fold in one year.
Just an estamite of how many fish taken out of the lakes in one year. You do the math over 5 years.

[EZM]

I still think that closeing all or some lakes would help the fishery 10 fold. Or make them all C&R for a year or two every once in a while.
Let mother nature do her thing. She knows best.

10,000 fish laying 1000 eggs each with a survival of 1/2 would increase our fishery 10 fold in one year.
Just an estamite of how many fish taken out of the lakes in one year. You do the math over 5 years.

Definitely reducing harvest would lead to higher populations of fish and better recoveries for lakes/watersheds that may be suffering from over harvest.

Problem is a survival rate of 1/2 as you mentioned isn't even close - that can't achieve that ratio even in a controlled laboratory. In the wild I would be surprised and astonished even if it's over 1%. (In the case of fish reaching maturity).

But the idea has some merits in specific cases in specific watersheds for sure.

I guess my point was - "naturally healing" lakes would take way longer.

[cube]

Maybe Alberta just has wimpy fish.

Seems you can catch and release Bass all day long, keep them in live wells and in bags of water for hours on end.
Then seemingly release them back into the water where they get caught again and again and again.

Seems to work that way with tournaments

Is there something about that species that makes them more
"Survivable"?

YES! The large mouth you see in those shows are warm water fish. They like water temps in the 70's and 80's (degrees F)

Our fish do not do well here in warm waters and a number of them will in fact die in your live well during the warm water period. Hence walleye tournaments here are now restricted to cold water periods.

[livinstone]

isnt our right as outdoors men :angry3:

[goldscud]

What about when there are more fisherman than fish for this "right" you think you have? Do other "outdoorsman" have the "right" to drive their ATVs down the streambed on the Livingstone (they are doing it)? 20 years ago the streams could handle the angling pressure with a rotating system of closures, today there are hundreds more fisherman on the streams. If we all took a limit, how many summers would it take to get almost all the fish?

[clamlinguine]

isnt our right as outdoors men :angry3:

OMG. Another outdoorsmen who thinks enjoying the outdoors and tormenting fish go hand in hand. You can enjoy wonderful walks around streams and rivers throughout the province holding nothing other than a walking stick. Maybe you will run into a fisherman and you can enjoy watching them go about their business. If you wont eat a fish you shouldn't be fishing. Deal with it.

[KegRiver]

I still think that closeing all or some lakes would help the fishery 10 fold. Or make them all C&R for a year or two every once in a while.
Let mother nature do her thing. She knows best.

10,000 fish laying 1000 eggs each with a survival of 1/2 would increase our fishery 10 fold in one year.
Just an estamite of how many fish taken out of the lakes in one year. You do the math over 5 years.


It would, if fishing were the main contributor to a decline but if fishing is not the cause as is the case with Grayling in the Notikewin river system then obviously it will have no effect. Which is exactly what I am seeing in this case.

I also know of a lake that has a declining fish population and almost no fishing pressure. This time the decline is due to an overpopulation cause by a poorly though out dam to improve Water fowl habitat.

The dam blocked migrating fish which then moved further upstream into a much smaller lake then the one that was dammed.

The end result was a drastic drop in the fish population in the big lake and a subsequent drop in fish in the main river in the system plus no significant increase in the Duck population.

It decisions like that which do the most damage to wildlife populations.

Another example is Chronic Wasting disease which was introduced to this province by captive Elk herds.

The use of DDT is yet another.

The wolf threat to Woodland Caribou herds is yet another.

Our Deer herds were managed to increase hunting opportunity for human hunter. This and the opening up for agriculture of forest land resulted in a significant increase in Deer herds in woodland areas which in turn resulted in a greatly increased Wolf populations which now threaten Woodland Caribou with extinction.

In every case cited it was not fishermen or hunters that caused the problem, it was industrial activity and government mismanagement that cause the problems.

Catch and release may well turn out to be one such decision. Only time will tell, if it is monitored properly, which it seldom is.

[clamlinguine]

What about when there are more fisherman than fish for this "right" you think you have? Do other "outdoorsman" have the "right" to drive their ATVs down the streambed on the Livingstone (they are doing it)? 20 years ago the streams could handle the angling pressure with a rotating system of closures, today there are hundreds more fisherman on the streams. If we all took a limit, how many summers would it take to get almost all the fish?

The streams I fish have never been better. More and bigger fish. I never see anyone fishing anymore. I'm serious. Even the ATV people are just roaring around trying to find a new way to get stuck.

But I'm unhappy because my favourite Athabow stream, which is teeming with fish like never before, (and I'm talking 20+ years)has been declared catch and release. Now I cant fish it anymore.

I tried the catch and release on it on the first day of the first year, but had to watch my buddy toss a 15" beauty back in dead. Done.

So this year I got curious about what the South Ram, my old favorite, was like. After testing it out, I would have definitely said it needed to be reopened to fishing. However, there was a bunch of C&Rs just below the road, striking poses in their fancy designer get ups, catching fish, and really just generally feeling good about themselves. Maybe this shouldn't be taken away from them.