View Full Version : Holes in ice are illegal unless...
Don Andersen
10-01-2015, 08:34 PM
Section 263(a) of the Criminal Code of Canada says
. (1) Every one who makes or causes to be made an opening in ice that is open to or frequented by the public is under a legal duty to guard it in a manner that is adequate to prevent persons from falling in by accident and is adequate to warn them that the opening exists.
Folks, we ran into this issue dealing with lake aeration systems.
Do note there are penalties for both injury and/or death.
Just a heads up. I suspect that every enforcement person in Alberta is now aware due to a court case.
Due diligence is not an option. Guard it & sign it or face the consequences.
Don
Does the law state anything about size of the hole ? Sure I can believe it about an aeration operation , but an ice fishing hole ?:thinking-006:
pikergolf
10-01-2015, 09:00 PM
Does the law state anything about size of the hole ? Sure I can believe it about an aeration operation , but an ice fishing hole ?:thinking-006:
Pretty sure a small child could disappear down a 10" hole. Guys are doubling and tripling up their holes to get a better view. Small kid will go down one of those for sure.
waterninja
10-01-2015, 09:10 PM
In the latest newsletter from the Edmonton Trout Club it states that aeration will probably stop this winter at Spring lake.
Have a very bad feeling for a lot of the smaller stocked lakes that depend on aeration to prevent winter kills.
Worst of all though, it seems like even drilling a single hole in the ice to fish through could land you into serious trouble.
Personally, I think it's just more BS from our nanny state. At the same time, you'd think they could come up with some sort of fencing or flagging that would satisfy the legal requirements.
Don Andersen
10-01-2015, 10:06 PM
Folks,
Have talked to a number of folks that makes holes in land for various reasons. W/O exception, the holes are barracaded with wire panels.
The code cited uses the exact same wording EXCEPT for changing ice to land.
Don
Bigdad013
10-02-2015, 03:42 AM
So if you fill the hole with snow and ice. Is it still a hole?
58thecat
10-02-2015, 05:20 AM
So if you fill the hole with snow and ice. Is it still a hole?
Nope.
Pretty sure a small child could disappear down a 10" hole. Guys are doubling and tripling up their holes to get a better view. Small kid will go down one of those for sure.
I believe that piker , thats the very reason I wont allow my grandkids fishing with me . I use only an eight inch auger and with some melting I'm sure it could happen with it as well .
So ..... because of the potential liability of some reckless or careless individuals no trout lakes will be aerated causing all the fish to winter kill because he/she might sue .....
Maybe we should blunt the points of knives too.
Too bad we have become so vulnerable/accepting to stupid litigation like the silly Americans.
I have an idea - maybe one of you can volunteer so I could spill some hot coffee on your crotch so you can get burned - we can both split the money.
iYearn
10-02-2015, 11:31 AM
So ..... because of the potential liability of some reckless or careless individuals no trout lakes will be aerated causing all the fish to winter kill because he/she might sue .....
Maybe we should blunt the points of knives too.
Too bad we have become so vulnerable/accepting to stupid litigation like the silly Americans.
I have an idea - maybe one of you can volunteer so I could spill some hot coffee on your crotch so you can get burned - we can both split the money.
Always love your comments here EZM, but I can confidently say I won't be going anywhere near your crotch! :sHa_sarcasticlol:
Section 263(a) of the Criminal Code of Canada says
. (1) Every one who makes or causes to be made an opening in ice that is open to or frequented by the public is under a legal duty to guard it in a manner that is adequate to prevent persons from falling in by accident and is adequate to warn them that the opening exists.
Folks, we ran into this issue dealing with lake aeration systems.
Do note there are penalties for both injury and/or death.
Just a heads up. I suspect that every enforcement person in Alberta is now aware due to a court case.
Due diligence is not an option. Guard it & sign it or face the consequences.
Don
I wonder how this will impact derbies, tournaments and events like the fishing hole family fun Ice Fishing Day..
tight line
10-02-2015, 12:19 PM
This is rediculous... As far as ice fishing holes, i have taken my sons fishing since they were 1 and yes, they could easily fall in, but there is no way they would go through. Double triple hole maybe.. This is what the world is coming to and it is sad to see... Hope the aration continues, and keep some of these lakes alive..
rugatika
10-02-2015, 12:24 PM
I make sure all my ice fishing holes are filled to the top with water before leaving them.
Lefty-Canuck
10-02-2015, 12:33 PM
Every time I go ice fishing I end up surround by ice holes...if we took the ice holes out of fishing we would be better off....ban the ice holes! I say! Ban them!
LC
I make sure all my ice fishing holes are filled to the top with water before leaving them.
Me too.
It is a safe practice....:)
MoFugger21
10-02-2015, 02:47 PM
Near zero chance this pertains to ice fishing.
is under a legal duty to guard it in a manner that is adequate to prevent persons from falling in by accident and is adequate to warn them that the opening exists.
The argument can easily be made that by standing close to the holes, or having tip-ups in the holes, you are "guarding" it sufficiently.
BassDude
10-02-2015, 04:58 PM
I'm buying a 30" Auger to hopefully catch a few lawmakers - give me strength.
Game Hunter
10-02-2015, 06:27 PM
There's been quite a new trend with everyone wanting 10 inch augers. I was thinking about this last year, having kids I opted for a 8 inch eskimo. It gets a little scary with these sort of holes getting bigger an bigger. Soon the coolest guy will have a 30 in auger. Or worse chainsaw. There should be fines or something in place for guys like this in the future. Maybe stopping any more size than what we deal with now before it does become a issue.
PerchBuster
10-02-2015, 09:07 PM
There's no way this alleged law can pertain to ice fishing. Ice augers are highly commercialized. Augured holes freeze back up pretty quickly. Unenforceable law I think too. Are f&w now going to be going around to see if everybody caged up there ice holes. Nope. Everybody is out there at their own risk. I've never fell in an augured hole before but would imagine it sucks. I can see how an aeration system could present some liability problems if people are not warned properly of its existence or location and the presence of thin ice. That is negligence. I mean what would be next....illegal to be anywhere on the ice without a life jacket or float suit being worn?......for like....in case you fall in my auger hole you tool? For those against the 10" augers......they have their place and shouldn't be thrown on the scrap pile just yet. You'd have a hard time getting a big 20# plus class Northern or Laker up through an 8" hole. This all seems a bit bogus to me. :acigar:
PerchBuster
10-02-2015, 09:15 PM
Oh ya.....and if you have a private aerated pond on your property put up signage and fence it off in case someone goes ploughing in on their sled or something. I could see that type of event changing lives unnecessarily.
Don Andersen
10-02-2015, 09:24 PM
Here is the law.
While a whole lot of us think that the nanny state is taking over, it appears like this law has been in effect for a long time. There is a date of the early 80's.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-138.html#docCont
Don
Game Hunter
10-02-2015, 09:48 PM
So my next question about marking the holes is. What's a guy gonna use to label there's a open hole without littering. A stick or spray paint.
Then you work your favorite perch spot and good lord. May aswell give away your coords online. :)
I guess it comes down to appropriate safe hole sizes.
Your not gonna go to jail if a leg goes in..
Thanks don I didn't really know there's a clause to ice holes.
338Bluff
10-02-2015, 09:56 PM
I was recently told that this law has actually been on the books for 80 years or more and it had more to do with the commercial harvesting of ice than ice fishing or aeration of lakes.
Don Andersen
10-03-2015, 03:59 AM
Guys,
You had better read section 263 (b).
You injure someone and again the law applies.
A friend told me that he broke a leg in falling into an unmarked hole.
Don
burbotman
10-03-2015, 05:44 AM
Guys,
You had better read section 263 (b).
You injure someone and again the law applies.
A friend told me that he broke a leg in falling into an unmarked hole.
Don
Don, was the person who made the hole charged?
Winch101
10-03-2015, 07:25 AM
Restrict the size of hole . I have seen 4 ft by 4 ft holes left in
Badger lake . Cut with a chain saw .....Morons .
This business of cutting 3 ten inch and hacking out the middle
Has to come to an end ...
Fish cops will be checking on this in Alberta now.
With the new Dipper Govt , No you are not smart enough to
Take care of yourself . That's their job ....Red Nannies .
slivers86
10-03-2015, 08:19 AM
There are guys who will cut those holes and sit on them for a weekend. It can be as simple as spending 10$ on some simple materials - such as wood stakes and some orange tape. It will cover you backside as a warning of hazard.
Adwittoutdoors
10-03-2015, 09:18 PM
My word society is a lost cause. I survived my childhood living in the country. What's next..........?
drhu22
10-04-2015, 01:53 AM
Restrict the size of hole . I have seen 4 ft by 4 ft holes left in Badger lake . Cut with a chain saw .....Morons .
Those are usually from netting I believe.
Since the law has been on the books for a while and were not seeing ice fishermen getting charged, im guessing its one that they dont enforce very strongly or at all. However, i think if someone did get hurt in one of your holes you could be liable if they wanted to sue.
Bigdad013
10-04-2015, 02:07 AM
There are guys who will cut those holes and sit on them for a weekend. It can be as simple as spending 10$ on some simple materials - such as wood stakes and some orange tape. It will cover you backside as a warning of hazard.
So now you have sticks or stakes sticking up frozen into the ice. Big snowfall or driving at night, they are covered, your driving on the ice hit one and puncture a tire, now who's liable.
drhu22
10-04-2015, 02:10 AM
So now you have sticks or stakes sticking up frozen into the ice. Big snowfall or driving at night, they are covered, your driving on on the ice hit one and puncture a tire, now who's liable.
edit mispost
Brandonkop
10-04-2015, 09:11 AM
You guys are over thinking this. Once you leave a hole drilled in the ice there is nothing linking it to you. The problem is with aeration since you have a piece of equipment sitting in the hole belonging to an owner. I take my kids ice fishing with 10 inch auger holes and they are fine. Sure if they fall in might get a little wet, but some of you guys make it sound like they will shoot below the ice and vanish. That's not how it works. People are pretty buoyant with all the gear on initially. Don't worry this is an old law someone decided to bring up because of an incident. It may end aeration but not ice fishing.
chriscosta
10-04-2015, 10:51 AM
So now you have sticks or stakes sticking up frozen into the ice. Big snowfall or driving at night, they are covered, your driving on the ice hit one and puncture a tire, now who's liable.
Espescially if its late and ya now end up stranded there for the night ..i cant even believe this is a thing all the money wasted on stocking lakes and keeping them alive is down the drain ...and how about places like muir that they have been stocking and protecting for many years??
Ozzzzz
10-05-2015, 07:01 PM
It's about time!! I've never understood the attraction of sitting out in the middle of a frozen lake, looking down a hole...:snapoutofit:
BPman
10-05-2015, 10:18 PM
Worried about your kids falling into a 10" hole? Cut an 11" circle out of cardboard and see whether they fit through the hole - with or without a winter coat on - my 3 year old grandson won't fit wearing only a T shirt and shorts... vastly exaggerated concern IMHO.
drhu22
10-05-2015, 10:38 PM
Worried about your kids falling into a 10" hole? Cut an 11" circle out of cardboard and see whether they fit through the hole - with or without a winter coat on - my 3 year old grandson won't fit wearing only a T shirt and shorts... vastly exaggerated concern IMHO.
Which is why they dont enforce it for ice fishers. It has been established that this law goes way back, so what is the point? Aeration and netting holes are a different matter.
Also given that the law is on the books, Im quite sure it would mean possible liability for an accident in any case.
Guys,
You had better read section 263 (b).
You injure someone and again the law applies.
A friend told me that he broke a leg in falling into an unmarked hole.
Don
There are unmarked holes all over the forest. An 8 inch auger hole is sufficient for what you describe but the law has no defendant in an ice fishing auger hole accident. A lake can have hundreds of holes in it that are not yet or in the process of being filled in with ice. There are no ownership markings of any kind. Who gets charged or sued? An aeration is usually owned/operated by a person known..................therefore charges can be laid. Personally I would not like to see flagging tape and/or other markers on every auger hole in the ice..............wouldn't that look nice a week or so after season opening. I can only see one reasonable solution.............limit the size of a hole to 10 inches and leave it visible so that all can see it..........do not fill it in with snow (if won't freeze any faster and it is a visible hole).
drhu22
10-05-2015, 11:02 PM
There are unmarked holes all over the forest. An 8 inch auger hole is sufficient for what you describe but the law has no defendant in an ice fishing auger hole accident. A lake can have hundreds of holes in it that are not yet or in the process of being filled in with ice. There are no ownership markings of any kind. Who gets charged or sued? An aeration is usually owned/operated by a person known..................therefore charges can be laid. Personally I would not like to see flagging tape and/or other markers on every auger hole in the ice..............wouldn't that look nice a week or so after season opening. I can only see one reasonable solution.............limit the size of a hole to 10 inches and leave it visible so that all can see it..........do not fill it in with snow (if won't freeze any faster and it is a visible hole).
It would depend on evidence/witnesses in any given case i suppose. In the vast majority of cases there would, like you said, be neither, which goes back to why they arent enforcing the law for ice fishermen. Im just saying if someone wanted to sue, and did have evidence (rare), they may have grounds.
Talking moose
10-06-2015, 12:57 AM
Do you guys think it would be enforced for ice fishermen? Hardly.
whitetail Junkie
10-06-2015, 02:34 AM
Glad I only run a 6" hole.....lol
Dumb
58thecat
10-06-2015, 05:55 AM
Sometimes when I go ice fishing I see a lot of "ice holes":sHa_sarcasticlol:
Game Hunter
10-06-2015, 10:07 AM
Did you see the new eskimo z91 14 inch auger?
:scared0018:
pseelk
10-06-2015, 10:46 AM
Don, was the person who made the hole charged?
How would you know who made the hole?Or do you have to mark every one like a bear bait?:sHa_sarcasticlol:
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