New kicker and electronics

[Off in the Bushes]

So I am trying to make do with the boat that I have. I am looking at simplifying the fishing experience from it. I can no longer stand mixing gas and the smell always seems to be blowing in my face.
So I am hoping to purchase an electric start gas kicker and run it off the main fuel for the boat is this possible?
I also would like to control it from the steering wheel but the tail is a stern drive. I know EZ steer makes something but will it be to hard to turn the wheel with the many motor off? My current setup is off a switch that reminds of a window control switch from a car, the entire steering controller (small electric motor and some pulleys) and trolling motor mounts to the far side of the boat and causes it to list the boat slightly. Making loading much harder as the trailer has rollers and the boat has some spines/fins where the roller can not rest on. Can it be centered more?
I would like to be able to remove the trolling motor when I need to as it would be in the way when water skiing and tubing.
Also I have no clue on electronic for the boat but would want something that tells me speed, depth and that I can mark location where I catch a fish to start building a database.
Thanks in advance
OITB

[curtis_rak]

Electronics is one of those things where are so many options. A few things to consider;
-budget (gps units range from $250 to a few grand)
-where and what do you fish for
-what type of mapping options do you need (if any)

You will get huge ranges of opinions of electronics. You can get good units that have down scanning, gps (for speed, marking and saving spots, navigation etc), and built in lake maps for $500.

[EZM]

So I am trying to make do with the boat that I have. I am looking at simplifying the fishing experience from it. I can no longer stand mixing gas and the smell always seems to be blowing in my face.
So I am hoping to purchase an electric start gas kicker and run it off the main fuel for the boat is this possible?
I also would like to control it from the steering wheel but the tail is a stern drive. I know EZ steer makes something but will it be to hard to turn the wheel with the many motor off? My current setup is off a switch that reminds of a window control switch from a car, the entire steering controller (small electric motor and some pulleys) and trolling motor mounts to the far side of the boat and causes it to list the boat slightly. Making loading much harder as the trailer has rollers and the boat has some spines/fins where the roller can not rest on. Can it be centered more?
I would like to be able to remove the trolling motor when I need to as it would be in the way when water skiing and tubing.
Also I have no clue on electronic for the boat but would want something that tells me speed, depth and that I can mark location where I catch a fish to start building a database.
Thanks in advance
OITB

A gas kicker should weigh about 100lbs - not sure that would make your boat list (lean) to one side unless it's a very small and light boat? That seems odd to me. Kickers are usually mounted opposite of the helm so you have a the person on one side and the kicker as a counter weight on the other?? I assume it's mounted opposite of the helm?

[Off in the Bushes]

A gas kicker should weigh about 100lbs - not sure that would make your boat list (lean) to one side unless it's a very small and light boat? That seems odd to me. Kickers are usually mounted opposite of the helm so you have a the person on one side and the kicker as a counter weight on the other?? I assume it's mounted opposite of the helm?

You know what it is not, and in it right there lies the problem. I would not have thought of that. But now that you mention it every pic I have seen of a boat with a kicker is like you have described.

[Legend Boats]

A 9.9 Long shaft will be your best bet for a kicker. You can downsize to a 5-6hp but make sure it’s a long shaft. This way if you end up using it for another boat it will be easily adaptable. You will most likely need a kicker plate to raise and lower the kicker into the water. As for the steering to tie it into your stern drive. An aftermarket attachment is available. Here is a link I found for you: http://www.cabelas.com/product/E-Z-Steer-Motor-Connectors/737473.uts?WT.tsrc=CRR&WT.mc_id=crrdtfd

As for fish finder/GPS it really comes down to what your budget is. A rule of thumb is go as big of a screen size you can within your budget. The bigger the screen the more detail you will see and the more options and accessories you can plug the unit into. A 5” screen is great start such as the Humminbird 600 series or a 7” screen in the 800 series from Humminbird.

Hope this helps.
Cheers, Henry Nguyen Legend-Boats

[huntsfurfish]

This from Lowrance.

http://www.lowrance.com/en-CA/Products/Auto-Steering/

Control with HDS unit.

Bloody Awesome.:)

[cube]

This from Lowrance.

http://www.lowrance.com/en-CA/Products/Auto-Steering/

Control with HDS unit.

Bloody Awesome.:)

Do you have one of these hooked up to a kicker?

[Mudslide]

I have the Lowrance autopilot (hydraulic version) with the HDS touch units but haven't had a chance to install it yet. I have a 150 Verado with a 9.9 Mercury Pro kicker on the back and a Motorguide Xi5 trolling motor on the front. The Kicker will be tied to the main motor with a steering bar and the HDS Gen 3 touch units will run both front and rear on autopilot. The Lowrance autopilot comes in both cable steer and hydraulic versions but the cable steer version is twice the cost. Around 2500. bucks for the cable steer plus installation.

My previous boat was a Crestliner with a 90 HP four stroke and an 8hp Honda Kicker tied to the main motor with a stainless steel bar. That proved to be an awesome combination and even with the main motor off, it was easy to steer. This is most definitely the most cost effective way to go but if you already have an HDS you might want to consider adding the autopilot to your setup.

[Bigdad013]

I have the same issue with mine. I have a fairly large boat (5800 lbs) and didn't think it would be an issue. My kicker is mounted off of the swim platform, with it being back another 2 feet is the issue. So now I always fill my water system to add the difference in weight on the other side. And yes it was a pain loading the trailer until the water system was filled (25 gallons).

As for steering, have a stern drive as well, never had a problem unless it's windy, my boat is like a big sail, but quick adjustments to the kicker will keep me going where I want.

I had a ez steer on my last boat, wasn't all that impressed with it.

[cube]

trolling motor mounts to the far side of the boat and causes it to list the boat slightly. Making loading much harder as the trailer has rollers and the boat has some spines/fins where the roller can not rest on. Can it be centered more?OITB

You can mount your kicker on the opposite side as your "trolling" motor and the weights should cancel each other out. You could of course mount the "trolling" motor more centrally if there is nothing on the front that would impinge there. As the vast majority of the weight of a "trolling" motor in in the motor end only it would need to be centrally mounted the head could still be angled off with out an issue.

For what it's worth I know most kickers are mounted port side but it really is what ever works For you and still keeps the weight balanced. eg if you were EZM you could just move one of your many Large tackle boxes to the other side to balance things out :) If you look on the next bite website most if not all the Pro fishermen there have there kickers on the starboard side. So too does Al Lindner.

Good luck with your project

[EZM]

A 9.9 Long shaft will be your best bet for a kicker. You can downsize to a 5-6hp but make sure it’s a long shaft. This way if you end up using it for another boat it will be easily adaptable. You will most likely need a kicker plate to raise and lower the kicker into the water. As for the steering to tie it into your stern drive. An aftermarket attachment is available. Here is a link I found for you: http://www.cabelas.com/product/E-Z-Steer-Motor-Connectors/737473.uts?WT.tsrc=CRR&WT.mc_id=crrdtfd

As for fish finder/GPS it really comes down to what your budget is. A rule of thumb is go as big of a screen size you can within your budget. The bigger the screen the more detail you will see and the more options and accessories you can plug the unit into. A 5” screen is great start such as the Humminbird 600 series or a 7” screen in the 800 series from Humminbird.

Hope this helps.
Cheers, Henry Nguyen Legend-Boats

I would probably determine the weight of the boat and depth of the transom before suggesting going down (or up) in HP or adding length to the shaft myself. If the OP's boat is over 2500 lbs I'd suggest nothing less than a 9.9 hp.

Also the length of the shaft (generally without using a jack plate) is designed to match transom depth to allow your cavitation plate to be in the correct position to the bottom of the hull. Having your prop/plate to low is just as bad (or worse) compared to having it too high or shallow.

Personally I'd like to understand those two critical pieces of information before I'd suggest any kicker or kicker set up.

Back to my question .....

I wasn't aware of any manufacturer producing and outboard less than 8 hp for use with a remote steering application. (That is what the OP is asking about isn't it?).

The difference between a kicker and small outboard are numerous.

- A 9.9 kicker has a mounting flange/bracket for a steering arm (to tie the big outboard to it manually OR to hook it up to, as an example, a sea star hydraulic cylinder.

- A kicker is designed so you wire your ignition, throttle controls and electric trim/tilt from a remote position using a wired remote control box/module. There is usually no tiller handle.

- A outboard, obviously, has a tiller handle to control direction and throttle input and may or may not have electric start or electric trim/tilt.

so my question is .....

How do you add the throttle controls or ignition controls at the helm on these smaller kickers when no kits are manufactured for this application as far as I'm aware? Does someone make a kit for these or something?

I don't seem to be able to see any smaller outboard, as you described at 5-6 hp available without a tiller handle? Are there some manufacturers that do this or (as above) are there aftermarket conversions?

I was always under the impression that it was impractical to do unless you build a Frankenstein steering bar ( and most small outboards have the tiller handle) and it seems if you want remote steering you need to go with a 9.9 hp at minimum for all major manufacturers (although a down rated 9.9 labeled as a "8 hp" was available with some manufacturers a few years ago).

Interesting ......

Let us know ...... I am interested in learning new stuff from the experts out there.

[EZM]

You can mount your kicker on the opposite side as your "trolling" motor and the weights should cancel each other out. You could of course mount the "trolling" motor more centrally if there is nothing on the front that would impinge there. As the vast majority of the weight of a "trolling" motor in in the motor end only it would need to be centrally mounted the head could still be angled off with out an issue.

For what it's worth I know most kickers are mounted port side but it really is what ever works For you and still keeps the weight balanced. eg if you were EZM you could just move one of your many Large tackle boxes to the other side to balance things out :) If you look on the next bite website most if not all the Pro fishermen there have there kickers on the starboard side. So too does Al Lindner.

Good luck with your project

True enough ..... there is definitely some impact to 100 lbs on either side of your boat - and because most recreational guys or boat dealers know the average recreational guy isn't going to move his gas tank over, or put his batteries opposite the trolling motor (or payload) it's easier just to mount it opposite of the helm.

I know many of the high end tournament boats let you order stuff like that to allow for the kicker to be on the helm (Starboard) side and make those adjustments.

There's also allot to be said on hulls and how they handle uneven weight distribution. A tri-hull or pontoon set up is pretty tolerant of uneven weight distribution versus a deep vee without a compound hull angle (reverse chine).

[EZM]

The other point to consider - which I should have mentioned earlier is that most kickers which are designed as kickers (not primary propulsion) have a different lower end compared to small outboards to allow lower RPM at the output shaft (prop).

I guess you could always run a lower pitch prop on an outboard but generally anything under a 9.9 is used for primary propulsion of a small vessel and geared up as such.

Many dedicated kickers will have a high thrust low pitch prop on a heavy gear box set up. Others accomplish this with a bigger diameter prop and fatter shaft on a bigger output gear (big foot as one example).

[cube]

The other point to consider - which I should have mentioned earlier is that most kickers which are designed as kickers (not primary propulsion) have a different lower end compared to small outboards to allow lower RPM at the output shaft (prop).

I guess you could always run a lower pitch prop on an outboard but generally anything under a 9.9 is used for primary propulsion of a small vessel and geared up as such.

Many dedicated kickers will have a high thrust low pitch prop on a heavy gear box set up. Others accomplish this with a bigger diameter prop and fatter shaft on a bigger output gear (big foot as one example).

For what it's worth we used a 4 hp Evenrude for 30 years as our kicker and it worked great. Could go 0.68 km/H to just under 7 Km/H in our old fiberglass boat. My guess it would weigh just about the same as your aluminium Lund. We just used the standard aluminium 2 blade prop that it came with. I would say that if you look most of the Kingfishers with cabins have 9.9 hp kickers on them and they are a lot heavier that most boats around here. Hence 9.9 is not needed, power wise anyway.

If you look your electric kicker on your boat, it only puts out about 1.3 hp and I'm sure it pushes your boat along just fine so the 5-6 hp that was recommended would have been fine. And as you said he could always put a different prop on if he wants.

[huntsfurfish]

Do you have one of these hooked up to a kicker?

Sadly no.

on my wish list though.

[cube]

Sadly no.

on my wish list though.

It's on my wish list as well.

I would very much like to know how much current all those bits draw, including the blue tooth wireless remote add on. It would be nice if the kicker manufacturers started having more amp output as most only put out 6 amps. Given all the new electronics now 6 amps is not very much. Could easily use a 10-15 amp optional alternator, if they only had it for mine.

Have a great season

[EZM]

There are all sorts of older engines that were well under the 9.9's available years ago.

It seems to me, if you want factory remote steering on your kicker (from the helm) you are pretty much looking at buying a 9.9 ( or a down rated 8 hp which is identical to the 9.9 with a different sticker for most manufacturers).

I don't see any major manufacturer offering anything smaller in a factory remoter steer option.

I realize there are all sorts of aftermarket ways to take a small 5 or 6 hp tiller and make it work but these range from Frankenstein hack jobs up to mediocre aftermarket kits.

I guess there just isn't a market big enough for a 5 or 6 hp factory remote steer equipped kicker motor.

At the end of the day a 9.9 is just fine really - it will troll down to a crawl and probably only weighs 15-20 lbs more than a 6 hp and you have the benefit of more power when you need it if the wind picks up or you need to use it as primary propulsion in an emergency.

It's just that the remote steer outboards are like $3000-$4000 to buy which is a chunk of change.

[Off in the Bushes]

Will to revive an old thread, I finally purchased some electronics for the boat and now an more motivated to get a kicker. But I just hate the inboard on it but I don't think its worth all the expense to convert it over to an outboard. As that would simplify winterizing etc. Can anyone point in the right direction to get a kicker installed that can run off the main boat gas and is preferably electric start.

[Sea Hawk]

Have you considered an electric that mounts on your inboard leg. You would not have to remove it to ski and it would not affect the balance of the boat.

[fish99]

merc pro kicker 9.9 , electric start, power tilt , remote steering , 4 stroke , and you can run it off your main fuel tank.

[Off in the Bushes]

Even with all the option available to transform my boat into something more functional it still falls short completely short on a fishing vessel or a ski boat.
I am much better off purchasing a different boat.