Private Derby

[Steve51]

Hey, i was wondering if anyone has ever organized a small private ice fishing derby before? probably less then 75 people. I know you have to get a competitive fishing licence but outside of that im not sure how to go about it.

[EZM]

Hey, i was wondering if anyone has ever organized a small private ice fishing derby before? probably less then 75 people. I know you have to get a competitive fishing licence but outside of that im not sure how to go about it.

I would start with a phone call to the ESRD and maybe have a look on the website. Get the information "straight from the horses mouth". I would try and communicate via email with the ESRD folks if possible (document your conversation as much as possible and take notes of the people you speak to),

I would hesitate to get advice from a forum that could lead to legal issues for you.

[McLeod]

Getting insurance is a good idea !

[Steve51]

I have emailed ESRD. Thanks

[Skoaltender]

Sorry not trying to derail the thread but I was wondering if there has ever been a AO ice derby? It's something I know I would be very interested in

[lovich12]

This is straight from the reg website:

Derby and Tournament Licensing

The licensing of organized fishing derbies and tournaments (Competitive Fishing Events or CFE's) is required for events involving more than 25 participants. The type of licence depends on the number of participants and the value of prizes. The cost of all licences is $25 and will only be issued to organizers who are residents of Alberta. Best Management Practices have been developed and incorporated into licence conditions to reduce impacts on fish populations. Events with 25 or fewer participants do not require a licence, but organizers are encouraged to voluntarily register such events and to follow best management practices.

Non-competitive fishing events, any event where 26 or more people participate in angling for one or more consecutive days on a specified water, do not require a licence, if prizes are awarded for participation or randow draw, not a fishing competition.

The CFE website, at mywildalberta.com, provides organizers with application and reporting forms, licence conditions, contact information, and information on how best to operate an event. A Frequently Asked Questions document addresses the issues event organizers need to consider prior to advertising and running an event.

[deerguy]

Keep in mind pictures are considered possession.

[waterninja]

Keep in mind pictures are considered possession.
Not sure what you mean by this?

[EZM]

Keep in mind pictures are considered possession.

Huh? ......."pictures are considered possession?" - I didn't know that. Where did you learn of this? I personally have never heard that before.

There is enough "evidence" of many of us forum members photographing a pike from Wabamun (where there is a zero limit) to have us all charged under your premise that a "picture" of a released fish is "possession".

Unless we misunderstood your statement - I would suggest you are mistaken.

[neilsledder]

Keep in mind pictures are considered possession.


I don't see how that is possible. By that that means all the guys on here could be charged with possession of sturgeon and over there limits of multiple other fish.

[deerguy]

Email the Eastslope kayak tournament. This has been an issue faced every tournament. Had this year's tourney at burnstick and could not legally take pictures of Walleye for the tournament as possesion limit is zero.

[Talking moose]

Email the Eastslope kayak tournament. This has been an issue faced every tournament. Had this year's tourney at burnstick and could not legally take pictures of Walleye for the tournament as possesion limit is zero.

Must be a rule placed by the event organizers. Can't be a law...

[deerguy]

Must be a rule placed by the event organizers. Can't be a law...

No, it is the law. Every year they are told that when they go to register the tournament.

https://www.facebook.com/eastslopeclassic/

Go on there and look for Mike Z, he organized the tournament a few years now and he can explain it to you and direct you the the government officials whom he had contact with

[Mikezilk]

Hey guys. Let me see if I can help you out a little.

For a fishing tournament you need,

Competitive fishing event license from esrd
Special event permit from parks if you plan to use their their sites or access to the lake
Insurance is usually required. Not many places offer it. I can find the email address for you if you need it

It will be barbless hooks only, condition of the license

If it is a CPR tournament, no fish are allowed to be kept

Photos of fish count as possession. Since you will use photos to verify catches you are only allowed to possess as many photos of each species as the regulations state. Anglers are required to delete photos of fish they are upgrading

Could go on, but I just got home from camp and am spending time with the family.

Text me at 403-392-1922 if you want more info.

Mike

[waterninja]

Thanks for the post and info. Mike. However, this so called regulation makes no sense to me. Sure, for the purposes of the tourney you might be in, the organizers may only allow so many pics. to be used or kept, and if you want to stay within the tourney guidelines, fine, but how could any pics you have be counted towards the provincial possesion limit? I would definetly need to see some more info on this rule before I would believe it. Sounds like private tourney rules are being mixed up with provincial regs.

[deerguy]

Thanks for the post and info. Mike. However, this so called regulation makes no sense to me. Sure, for the purposes of the tourney you might be in, the organizers may only allow so many pics. to be used or kept, and if you want to stay within the tourney guidelines, fine, but how could any pics you have be counted towards the provincial possesion limit? I would definetly need to see some more info on this rule before I would believe it. Sounds like private tourney rules are being mixed up with provincial regs.
Mike organized the tournament himself. They are not his own self imposed rules.

[EZM]

No, it is the law. Every year they are told that when they go to register the tournament.

https://www.facebook.com/eastslopeclassic/

Go on there and look for Mike Z, he organized the tournament a few years now and he can explain it to you and direct you the the government officials whom he had contact with

Laws don't come from facebook.

Law's are not governed by tournament rules.

It is not against the law, nor does a picture of a released fish count toward your provincial possession limit.

I would suggest you are confused.

PS - If you can show me where in the provincial fishing regulations it says a picture taken (of a fish subsequently released) counts toward your possession limit then I will stand corrected.

[CK Angler]

I know every province is different and this may be irrelevant but I have participated in CRR (catch, record, release) tournaments in MB where a volunteer came in your boat for the day, recorded you catch and released it after. This was on Lac Du Bonnet and what made it nice was that the slot sizes didn't apply because your were immeatley releasing the fish after. So you were able to record you 5 largest walleye of the day without worrying about the lakes slot sizes, it was a lot of fun.

[deerguy]

Laws don't come from facebook.

Law's are not governed by tournament rules.

It is not against the law, nor does a picture of a released fish count toward your provincial possession limit.

I would suggest you are confused.

PS - If you can show me where in the provincial fishing regulations it says a picture taken (of a fish subsequently released) counts toward your possession limit then I will stand corrected.

Ps - read the whole ****ing thread.

It amazes me how in 2015 people born in a first world country can't seem to grasp simple things. I told who you to talk to, I got the guy himself to come in and explain it then the guy went above and beyond to give you his personal number if you had any further questions as he himself dealt with the government. What more do you want? Like Jesus Christ man, think for yourself once and awhile.

[CK Angler]

Ps - read the whole ****ing thread.

It amazes me how in 2015 people born in a first world country can't seem to grasp simple things. I told who you to talk to, I got the guy himself to come in and explain it then the guy went above and beyond to give you his personal number if you had any further questions as he himself dealt with the government. What more do you want? Like Jesus Christ man, think for yourself once and awhile.

Some one pee in your corn flakes this morning?

I went to look for myself and your link brought me to a face book page.... Nothing about pictures being possession. Chill out bud, your making yourself look like a donkey

[deerguy]

Some one pee in your corn flakes this morning?

I went to look for myself and your link brought me to a face book page.... Nothing about pictures being possession. Chill out bud, your making yourself look like a donkey

I quoted the other guy not you. And I had said, go to the Facebook page and message Mike Z. However, Mike Z had come on here and responded in this thread.

[CK Angler]

I quoted the other guy not you. And I had said, go to the Facebook page and message Mike Z. However, Mike Z had come on here and responded in this thread.

I know you didn't quote me, but I am following this thread, I find it interesting, no reason to get your panties bunched when one some disagrees with you.


Question, who takes the pictures in these Derbys? Does the fish have to travel from point a to point b for a picture? You taking selfies? How does that work?

[TroutSlam]

Photos do count as possession for the purpose of a C&R tournament. The Eastslope event is a great example. This restriction is part of the governing bodies conditions to allow the event. We have to pinch barbs(even tho it's not illegal) and can only photo, this years example 5 trout , 1 pike over 63( yes even though it is C&R)and 5 perch as that is the limit at Burnstick lake.
If Mike Z had not of agreed to these terms from the governing bodies no event would have been able to be held.
Does that help?? Can't expalin why myself as it was C&R event but those were the rules we had to follow. If you want to really have a event you will likely agree to whatever stipulations they put on it.

[deerguy]

I know you didn't quote me, but I am following this thread, I find it interesting, no reason to get your panties bunched when one some disagrees with you.


Question, who takes the pictures in these Derbys? Does the fish have to travel from point a to point b for a picture? You taking selfies? How does that work?

It's a selfie photo. When entering the tournament you are given a numbered sticker that you put on your bump board. Upon landing of the fish you take a picture of the fish on the bump board with the number visible. At the end of the day you hand the memory card to the organizer and they add up your measurements.

My gripe with them "disagreeing" with me as it is not an opinion. I don't agree with the rule and think it makes no sense,it is the rule tho. For people to come on here and tell me I am wrong Erks me. The organizer posted his number for people on here to call if they have any questions and they bypass his whole post just to tell me I am somehow wrong. That is what my issue is. It is just very typical of AO fashion to argue instead of research.

If anyone does " not believe me" please call Mike at the number provided, he will give you the contact info for the Government officials he dealt with to get the permits and you can call them yourself and tell them they are somehow wrong.

Thank you

[CK Angler]

Trout slam, who takes the pictures?

I have never been to one of these events, how does that work?

[TroutSlam]

We take our own. If you need a upgrade in size you must delete a smaller fish so for example there would only be 5 trout if and when checked by a CO & yes they have been out to this event before.

[TroutSlam]

And it's not a selfie photo it's a photo you take by yourself of a fish on a bump board.

[CK Angler]

Thx, I really was curious how that worked. Interesting even though you are immediately releasing the fish they count it as pocession.

I think the disagreement came when it was stated that it is law, because it certianly is not law, more like a stipulation to run a tournament. If it was law then call me a poacher because I have many pictures of walleye from lakes that have a zero pocession limit. from what I've gathered here today it only applies to a C&R tournament.

Either way sounds like a fun event.

Cheers

[EZM]

Ps - read the whole ****ing thread.

It amazes me how in 2015 people born in a first world country can't seem to grasp simple things. I told who you to talk to, I got the guy himself to come in and explain it then the guy went above and beyond to give you his personal number if you had any further questions as he himself dealt with the government. What more do you want? Like Jesus Christ man, think for yourself once and awhile.

I agree with you 100%.

[wags]

No, it is the law. Every year they are told that when they go to register the tournament.

https://www.facebook.com/eastslopeclassic/

Go on there and look for Mike Z, he organized the tournament a few years now and he can explain it to you and direct you the the government officials whom he had contact with

It's a selfie photo. When entering the tournament you are given a numbered sticker that you put on your bump board. Upon landing of the fish you take a picture of the fish on the bump board with the number visible. At the end of the day you hand the memory card to the organizer and they add up your measurements.

My gripe with them "disagreeing" with me as it is not an opinion. I don't agree with the rule and think it makes no sense,it is the rule tho. For people to come on here and tell me I am wrong Erks me. The organizer posted his number for people on here to call if they have any questions and they bypass his whole post just to tell me I am somehow wrong. That is what my issue is. It is just very typical of AO fashion to argue instead of research.

If anyone does " not believe me" please call Mike at the number provided, he will give you the contact info for the Government officials he dealt with to get the permits and you can call them yourself and tell them they are somehow wrong.

Thank you

I'm sure you can see in your quotes that a law is much different than a rule. There is no law stating that photos count towards possession. I'm sure many tournaments have rules to follow for that tournament. However, if i'm in the tournament, and keep too many pictures, it will affect my status in the tournament, however, no charges will be brought against me for breaking a law.

Cheers

[deerguy]

I'm sure you can see in your quotes that a law is much different than a rule. There is no law stating that photos count towards possession. I'm sure many tournaments have rules to follow for that tournament. However, if i'm in the tournament, and keep too many pictures, it will affect my status in the tournament, however, no charges will be brought against me for breaking a law.

Cheers

Legally a photo counts as possession. At least it did in regards to the tournament according to the government.

I really don't know how else to explain it. People seem fixated on the "tournament guidelines" aspect and I don't understand why. The government told the organizer that pictures of fish counted as possession. I used rule/laws in an interchangeable way. "Rules of the highway is 110 km/hr max"

Keep in mind this thread is about a private fishing derby, I had stated that pictures count as possession as so the OP can choose the lake wisely.

[wags]

Legally a photo counts as possession. At least it did in regards to the tournament according to the government.

I really don't know how else to explain it. People seem fixated on the "tournament guidelines" aspect and I don't understand why. The government told the organizer that pictures of fish counted as possession. I used rule/laws in an interchangeable way. "Rules of the highway is 110 km/hr max"

Keep in mind this thread is about a private fishing derby, I had stated that pictures count as possession as so the OP can choose the lake wisely.

First bold - no it doesn't. No laws around this.

Second bold - because it's a tournament rule.

Third bold - this is a law, not a rule - which is why you can be charged for it, and not be charged for having a picture of a fish you've caught.

Cheers mate.

[TroutSlam]

Legally a photo counts as possession. At least it did in regards to the tournament according to the government.

I really don't know how else to explain it. People seem fixated on the "tournament guidelines" aspect and I don't understand why. The government told the organizer that pictures of fish counted as possession. I used rule/laws in an interchangeable way. "Rules of the highway is 110 km/hr max"

Keep in mind this thread is about a private fishing derby, I had stated that pictures count as possession as so the OP can choose the lake wisely.


As a participant of the event in question, it is not a law but a event rule...
As MikeZ stated as well I believe.
For your private derby pics would only count as possession of its a regulated event and the authorities that be decided that was to be a stipulation for the event.

[deerguy]

.

[Talking moose]

I agree with you 100%.

Lol.:sHa_sarcasticlol::sHa_sarcasticlol::sHa_sarca sticlol:
:sHa_sarcasticlol::scared0018::sHa_sarcasticlol:
:sHa_sarcasticlol::sHa_sarcasticlol::sHa_sarcastic lol:

[RavYak]

Your all both right and wrong...

The photographing of catch and release fish is a legally grey area.

There is a law that states the following

"7. Every person who catches a fish the possession or retention of which is prohibited under these Regulations or the provincial Act shall immediately return that fish to the waters from which it was caught, and, if the fish is alive, release it in a manner that causes it the least harm."

If you are taking pictures of a fish then it is fairly easy to argue that you are not releasing the fish "immediately" and that you are not releasing it in the "manner that causes it the least harm".

Will you get a ticket for photographing a fish? Probably not although I think they should start doing so with protected species showing poor handling(example Sturgeon dragged up on shore in mud). Florida for an example has been handing out tickets to people that take tarpon, goliath grouper or hammerhead sharks out of the water for a picture.

Back on topic to the OP's question. This link pretty clearly goes over everything you need to know about Alberta's competitive fishing event requirements. It also has links to the application forms and government contacts etc.

http://www.mywildalberta.com/BuyLicences/FishingLicensesFees/CompetitiveFishingEvents/CompetitiveFishingEventsFAQ.aspx

[TroutSlam]

Your all both right and wrong...

The photographing of catch and release fish is a legally grey area.

There is a law that states the following

"7. Every person who catches a fish the possession or retention of which is prohibited under these Regulations or the provincial Act shall immediately return that fish to the waters from which it was caught, and, if the fish is alive, release it in a manner that causes it the least harm."

If you are taking pictures of a fish then it is fairly easy to argue that you are not releasing the fish "immediately" and that you are not releasing it in the "manner that causes it the least harm

Will you get a ticket for photographing a fish? Probably not although I think they should start doing so with protected species showing poor handling(example Sturgeon dragged up on shore in mud). Florida for an example has been handing out tickets to people that take tarpon, goliath grouper or hammerhead sharks out of the water for a picture.

Back on topic to the OP's question. This link pretty clearly goes over everything you need to know about Alberta's competitive fishing event requirements. It also has links to the application forms and government contacts etc.

http://www.mywildalberta.com/BuyLicences/FishingLicensesFees/CompetitiveFishingEvents/CompetitiveFishingEventsFAQ.aspx

Well we can all rest easy the Mighty Rav has spoken. Hey Rav quick question, how do you get through doors with that massive ego. Must be nice to think you have all the answers all the time. I can't be the only one sick of this clown on here.

[deerguy]

Well we can all rest easy the Mighty Rav has spoken. Hey Rav quick question, how do you get through doors with that massive ego. Must be nice to think you have all the answers all the time. I can't be the only one sick of this clown on here.

Ah, yeah he does have a big ego, where does he get off posting regs and links to regulations? Rev, can't you see people here are trying to not educate themselves on the laws? Degenerate ***** lol.

Thanks for posting the link, hopefully it clears it up for some people.

[wags]

Ah, yeah he does have a big ego, where does he get off posting regs and links to regulations? Rev, can't you see people here are trying to not educate themselves on the laws? Degenerate ***** lol.

Thanks for posting the link, hopefully it clears it up for some people.

So....has it?

Cheers

[deerguy]

So....has it?

Cheers

No idea, no one else has responded yet?

[Brandon5555]

No idea, no one else has responded yet?
I wonder why.

[Mikezilk]

So. Since people can't wrap their head around this.

You apply for a license to host you fishing tournament... They put forth about 22 conditions for the license. The COs are encouraged to visit the tournament and check to see if the anglers are following the tournament rules and conditions of the license. Because during weigh in tournaments you are only allowed to keep the max legal limit and size of each species, but can upgrade a fish by releasing one from you live well, the Catch, Photo, Relesae tournaments do the exact same but with pictures. Again... This is not in the Alberta Regulations but is a condition of the license and how the COs will check to see if you are adhering to the rules.

[Talking moose]

So. Since people can't wrap their head around this.

You apply for a license to host you fishing tournament... They put forth about 22 conditions for the license. The COs are encouraged to visit the tournament and check to see if the anglers are following the tournament rules and conditions of the license. Because during weigh in tournaments you are only allowed to keep the max legal limit and size of each species, but can upgrade a fish by releasing one from you live well, the Catch, Photo, Relesae tournaments do the exact same but with pictures. Again... This is not in the Alberta Regulations but is a condition of the license and how the COs will check to see if you are adhering to the rules.

Would there be a ticket issued and a court day on it? Or would the participant just be disqualified from the tourney?

[RavYak]

Well we can all rest easy the Mighty Rav has spoken. Hey Rav quick question, how do you get through doors with that massive ego. Must be nice to think you have all the answers all the time. I can't be the only one sick of this clown on here.

Curtis, this must be your theme song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxpTx0VDBKw

So. Since people can't wrap their head around this.

You apply for a license to host you fishing tournament... They put forth about 22 conditions for the license. The COs are encouraged to visit the tournament and check to see if the anglers are following the tournament rules and conditions of the license. Because during weigh in tournaments you are only allowed to keep the max legal limit and size of each species, but can upgrade a fish by releasing one from you live well, the Catch, Photo, Relesae tournaments do the exact same but with pictures. Again... This is not in the Alberta Regulations but is a condition of the license and how the COs will check to see if you are adhering to the rules.

Mike, I am just going to argue this because I think the government handles this very poorly.

Right from the regulations guide

"Culling is unlawful if the practice occurs beyond a person’s legal limit."

You can prove it by the laws I posted before regarding immediate release.

Whether you use a live well, stringer, delete key on camera it is all theoretically the same. The camera delete key is actually the worst option as deleting a photo from your camera does not actually delete it from your SD card.

I missed the derby this year so missed all the hullabalu over having to delete entries from the camera but I have an issue with this as it is a double standard compared to how SRD handles some other much larger tournaments...

For example the Anglers Cup on Slave Lake has rules in place that allows 2 anglers to weigh up to 4 walleye(requiring them to be put in a live well, hauled around lake for who knows how long and in how rough of conditions, weighed then released) even though the limit is only 1 walleye each... Those fish undergo far more stress then any cpr fish in say the eastslope tournament and the fact that SRD allows the Anglers Cup to do this while trying to control the Eastslope's photo count is an abomination imo...

What SRD needs to do is stop self imposing whatever willy nilly rules they want to put on a particular derby... They need to stick to the laws and if necessary clarify the laws(something they will have to do regarding photographs at some point in the future). If they want to provide a list of best practices they hope the tournament will follow then that is their prerogative, in fact it is basically what they do now with their "rules" they can't legally enforce...

Would there be a ticket issued and a court day on it? Or would the participant just be disqualified from the tourney?

Theoretically they could charge you with Section 9 item 3 which is "Failing to release unauthorised fish immediately or in a manner that causes least harm" or Section 9 item 9 "Catching and retaining more than daily quota".

There are two sides of law though, written law and case law. In this situation case law points to not being issued a ticket(or if issued a ticket not being found guilty at court) because it is a generally accepted practice to photograph fish and as such to this time has not been enforced even though it is theoretically illegal(same as culling using a live well).

Whether or not a participant would be disqualified from the tourney is the call of the tournament manager(Mike in the case of eastslope kayak tournament). If a CO was present at the time and noticed Mike was allowing people to submit entries with more fish then allowed they could potentially revoke Mike's ability to get a licence in the future although I personally highly doubt it would happen.


To make a long story short. SRD likes to over manage derbies and implement rules they can't legally enforce(barbless being the best example as it isn't even theoretically illegal). In some situations they have even allowed rules that are theoretically illegal...

They can slap you on the wrist and refuse to give you derby licences in the future if you don't follow their rules but the actual individuals would never get charged(without making a significant change to Alberta's case law on the topic) because they are not breaking any laws. In the case of photographs it is a legally grey area, one that written law theoretically says is illegal while case law ignores that fact because it is not the reason the law was written and they just haven't taken the time to properly rewrite the law yet.

[huntsfurfish]

Curtis, this must be your theme song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxpTx0VDBKw



Mike, I am just going to argue this because I think the government handles this very poorly.

Right from the regulations guide

"Culling is unlawful if the practice occurs beyond a person’s legal limit."

You can prove it by the laws I posted before regarding immediate release.

Whether you use a live well, stringer, delete key on camera it is all theoretically the same. The camera delete key is actually the worst option as deleting a photo from your camera does not actually delete it from your SD card.

I missed the derby this year so missed all the hullabalu over having to delete entries from the camera but I have an issue with this as it is a double standard compared to how SRD handles some other much larger tournaments...

For example the Anglers Cup on Slave Lake has rules in place that allows 2 anglers to weigh up to 4 walleye(requiring them to be put in a live well, hauled around lake for who knows how long and in how rough of conditions, weighed then released) even though the limit is only 1 walleye each... Those fish undergo far more stress then any cpr fish in say the eastslope tournament and the fact that SRD allows the Anglers Cup to do this while trying to control the Eastslope's photo count is an abomination imo...

What SRD needs to do is stop self imposing whatever willy nilly rules they want to put on a particular derby... They need to stick to the laws and if necessary clarify the laws(something they will have to do regarding photographs at some point in the future). If they want to provide a list of best practices they hope the tournament will follow then that is their prerogative, in fact it is basically what they do now with their "rules" they can't legally enforce...



Theoretically they could charge you with Section 9 item 3 which is "Failing to release unauthorised fish immediately or in a manner that causes least harm" or Section 9 item 9 "Catching and retaining more than daily quota".

There are two sides of law though, written law and case law. In this situation case law points to not being issued a ticket(or if issued a ticket not being found guilty at court) because it is a generally accepted practice to photograph fish and as such to this time has not been enforced even though it is theoretically illegal(same as culling using a live well).

Whether or not a participant would be disqualified from the tourney is the call of the tournament manager(Mike in the case of eastslope kayak tournament). If a CO was present at the time and noticed Mike was allowing people to submit entries with more fish then allowed they could potentially revoke Mike's ability to get a licence in the future although I personally highly doubt it would happen.


To make a long story short. SRD likes to over manage derbies and implement rules they can't legally enforce(barbless being the best example as it isn't even theoretically illegal). In some situations they have even allowed rules that are theoretically illegal...

They can slap you on the wrist and refuse to give you derby licences in the future if you don't follow their rules but the actual individuals would never get charged(without making a significant change to Alberta's case law on the topic) because they are not breaking any laws. In the case of photographs it is a legally grey area, one that written law theoretically says is illegal while case law ignores that fact because it is not the reason the law was written and they just haven't taken the time to properly rewrite the law yet.

here we go.

You are entitled to your opinion.:);)

Going to send a letter to ESRD asking them to consult RavYak before any actions are to be taken. LOL

Most tournaments seem to go ok. If you do not agree with what they put forth go talk to them. But dont "bring down" another user group Anglers Cup/Slave lake.

Each tournament/trail may have different rules imposed. That is not always a bad thing. It can be because of area/location, fish species, size of water body, type of Derby or Tournament, etc. For the most part I think they do all right(my opinion).
That said some rules I dont agree with either(barbless in particular). But many people in AB do not like and do not want to see derbys/tournaments continue. So barbless may be one of those feel good rules. And I believe that they go with best practice for a reason.

[Talking moose]

Curtis, this must be your theme song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxpTx0VDBKw



Mike, I am just going to argue this because I think the government handles this very poorly.

Right from the regulations guide

"Culling is unlawful if the practice occurs beyond a person’s legal limit."

You can prove it by the laws I posted before regarding immediate release.

Whether you use a live well, stringer, delete key on camera it is all theoretically the same. The camera delete key is actually the worst option as deleting a photo from your camera does not actually delete it from your SD card.

I missed the derby this year so missed all the hullabalu over having to delete entries from the camera but I have an issue with this as it is a double standard compared to how SRD handles some other much larger tournaments...

For example the Anglers Cup on Slave Lake has rules in place that allows 2 anglers to weigh up to 4 walleye(requiring them to be put in a live well, hauled around lake for who knows how long and in how rough of conditions, weighed then released) even though the limit is only 1 walleye each... Those fish undergo far more stress then any cpr fish in say the eastslope tournament and the fact that SRD allows the Anglers Cup to do this while trying to control the Eastslope's photo count is an abomination imo...

What SRD needs to do is stop self imposing whatever willy nilly rules they want to put on a particular derby... They need to stick to the laws and if necessary clarify the laws(something they will have to do regarding photographs at some point in the future). If they want to provide a list of best practices they hope the tournament will follow then that is their prerogative, in fact it is basically what they do now with their "rules" they can't legally enforce...



Theoretically they could charge you with Section 9 item 3 which is "Failing to release unauthorised fish immediately or in a manner that causes least harm" or Section 9 item 9 "Catching and retaining more than daily quota".

There are two sides of law though, written law and case law. In this situation case law points to not being issued a ticket(or if issued a ticket not being found guilty at court) because it is a generally accepted practice to photograph fish and as such to this time has not been enforced even though it is theoretically illegal(same as culling using a live well).

Whether or not a participant would be disqualified from the tourney is the call of the tournament manager(Mike in the case of eastslope kayak tournament). If a CO was present at the time and noticed Mike was allowing people to submit entries with more fish then allowed they could potentially revoke Mike's ability to get a licence in the future although I personally highly doubt it would happen.


To make a long story short. SRD likes to over manage derbies and implement rules they can't legally enforce(barbless being the best example as it isn't even theoretically illegal). In some situations they have even allowed rules that are theoretically illegal...

They can slap you on the wrist and refuse to give you derby licences in the future if you don't follow their rules but the actual individuals would never get charged(without making a significant change to Alberta's case law on the topic) because they are not breaking any laws. In the case of photographs it is a legally grey area, one that written law theoretically says is illegal while case law ignores that fact because it is not the reason the law was written and they just haven't taken the time to properly rewrite the law yet.

Thanks Rav. Pretty much as I suspected.

[RavYak]

here we go.

You are entitled to your opinion.:);)

Going to send a letter to ESRD asking them to consult RavYak before any actions are to be taken. LOL

Most tournaments seem to go ok. If you do not agree with what they put forth go talk to them. But dont "bring down" another user group Anglers Cup/Slave lake.

Each tournament/trail may have different rules imposed. That is not always a bad thing. It can be because of area/location, fish species, size of water body, type of Derby or Tournament, etc. For the most part I think they do all right(my opinion).
That said some rules I dont agree with either(barbless in particular). But many people in AB do not like and do not want to see derbys/tournaments continue. So barbless may be one of those feel good rules. And I believe that they go with best practice for a reason.

Each derby can be handled differently but they should at least try and be somewhat consistent between them...

The photo rule is the exact same as if they changed the Angler Cup rule to say you have to claim every fish you put in your live well and they lowered the daily limit to 1 walleye per angler. Throwing the fish back without CO or organizer knowing about it is theoretically the same as deleting a picture on your camera...

Lets see SRD put that rule into place and see if the Walleye tournament anglers have the same reaction I as a kayak tournament angler have...

Or what they actually should do is just remove that stipulation from the Eastslope and other CPR tournaments so that they can actually act as a tournament is supposed to...

[huntsfurfish]

Each derby can be handled differently but they should at least try and be somewhat consistent between them...

The photo rule is the exact same as if they changed the Angler Cup rule to say you have to claim every fish you put in your live well and they lowered the daily limit to 1 walleye per angler. Throwing the fish back without CO or organizer knowing about it is theoretically the same as deleting a picture on your camera...

Lets see SRD put that rule into place and see if the Walleye tournament anglers have the same reaction I as a kayak tournament angler have...

Or what they actually should do is just remove that stipulation from the Eastslope and other CPR tournaments so that they can actually act as a tournament is supposed to...

Na they should just not allow the eastslope tournament to exist. Feel better?


Talk to them!

[deerguy]

What a shame this thread has taken such a dive. OP, if you want to try and plan a derby pm me, I can put you in contact with people and help you organize.

[Talking moose]

What a shame this thread has taken such a dive. OP, if you want to try and plan a derby pm me, I can put you in contact with people and help you organize.

X2, was a good discussion until......
Ps - read the whole ****ing thread.

It amazes me how in 2015 people born in a first world country can't seem to grasp simple things. I told who you to talk to, I got the guy himself to come in and explain it then the guy went above and beyond to give you his personal number if you had any further questions as he himself dealt with the government. What more do you want? Like Jesus Christ man, think for yourself once and awhile.

[deerguy]

X2, was a good discussion until......
Ps - read the whole ****ing thread.

It amazes me how in 2015 people born in a first world country can't seem to grasp simple things. I told who you to talk to, I got the guy himself to come in and explain it then the guy went above and beyond to give you his personal number if you had any further questions as he himself dealt with the government. What more do you want? Like Jesus Christ man, think for yourself once and awhile.

Nope, that was valid. It was brash and somewhat rude but it was legitimate. On all sorts of threads people just want to argue for the sake of arguing without adding and meat to a conversation or seeking out answers to questions asked. Probably would have been Bette if I hadn't posted it but I do stand by it.

[Brandon5555]

Nope, that was valid. It was brash and somewhat rude but it was legitimate. On all sorts of threads people just want to argue for the sake of arguing without adding and meat to a conversation or seeking out answers to questions asked. Probably would have been Bette if I hadn't posted it but I do stand by it.
Agreed, or boast their superior knowledge and be really condescending. Biggest pet peeve about this forum is the egos