Net energy from alternatives energy sources? ABV?

[The Elkster]

So there is much talk about alternative energy affordability and subsidies and competitiveness against oil. IMO all economics can and are skewed and are not indicative of anything per say so I think we have to dig deeper.

Price aside, net energy output is what really matters in figuring out if something is a practical scalable replacement for oil...or not. Has anyone seen any studies on the net energy generated by modern wind and solar projects? I'm talking about energy produced minus all energy input including finding and smelting metal and forming all the parts, etc. Plus all energy used to build and maintain the operation through its life.

Assuming a closed circle with no oil burned to help with up front manufacturing processes.

IE. Does a windmill return plus or minus 10-50-200-500% of total energy spent to build and maintain over a 20-30 yr lifespan? I'd like to get some handle on just how much alternative infrastructure we'd need to eliminate a certain number of bbls of oil demand.

[cotang]

My opinion is that is if alternative energy is so much better we would be using it by now. Being in the tech industry, the current alternative energy cannot meet or exceed our current "life style" consumption without the over use of current resources (ie land) and that just fact.

[The Elkster]

As an oil guy watching reservoir deplete I fully support the search for alternatives regardless of cost. The cost of waiting until a real oil crunch will be FAR higher. I just don't want to see money poured into scaling up tech until we have a clear viable contender. IMO we're far better off pouring more money into research than spending billions scaling up projects that are doomed to fail based on practical realities.

[omega50]

As an oil guy watching reservoir deplete I fully support the search for alternatives regardless of cost. The cost of waiting until a real oil crunch will be FAR higher. I just don't want to see money poured into scaling up tech until we have a clear viable contender. IMO we're far better off pouring more money into research than spending billions scaling up projects that are doomed to fail based on practical realities.

Fishing for a job?:sHa_shakeshout:

[The Elkster]

No problem I have a job for now. But when the first of the major oilsands projects start winding up in AB in 30-40 years (any conventional will be all but dead by then) there are going to be lot of AB'ers permanently without a job and maybe short of energy if alternatives haven't been developed.