I can't see why environmentalists want to ban OHVs ?

[AlbertaBoy1]

https://youtu.be/-iwZrp2OWHo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSWENQ8INyM

https://youtu.be/EzwXECDkk8M

[HunterDave]

Maclean Creek is a designated OHV area is it not?

[rugatika]

McLean Creek

Off-highway vehicles (OHV) permitted on existing trails unless otherwise indicated.
Only vehicles under 453.6 kilograms (1000 pounds) with three or more low pressure tires are allowed between December 1 and April 30.

Hopefully they're not breaking any laws. Their plates and faces are in clear view...what did the RCMP or ESRD say? (310-ESRD)

Frankly, I don't see the fun in getting stuck in mud...I do it enough for work. It sucks. And I prefer riding on smooth trails that aren't all rutted up...but to each their own, as long as it's legal. If they truly are doing damage to sensitive habitat or something, I would hope ESRD would advise appropriately.

As an environmentalist I'm more concerned with things like this: http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/cal-fire-wind-turbine-generator-caused-wildland-fire-charred-367-acres

[Grizzly Adams]

Good place to build that flood prevention dam. :evilgrin:

Grizz

[bessiedog]

McLean Creek

Off-highway vehicles (OHV) permitted on existing trails unless otherwise indicated.
Only vehicles under 453.6 kilograms (1000 pounds) with three or more low pressure tires are allowed between December 1 and April 30.

Hopefully they're not breaking any laws. Their plates and faces are in clear view...what did the RCMP or ESRD say? (310-ESRD)

Frankly, I don't see the fun in getting stuck in mud...I do it enough for work. It sucks. And I prefer riding on smooth trails that aren't all rutted up...but to each their own, as long as it's legal. If they truly are doing damage to sensitive habitat or something, I would hope ESRD would advise appropriately.

As an environmentalist I'm more concerned with things like this: http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/cal-fire-wind-turbine-generator-caused-wildland-fire-charred-367-acres


Your game got better with your time off Rug!

Welcome back!

[Klondike]

McLean Creek

Off-highway vehicles (OHV) permitted on existing trails unless otherwise indicated.
Only vehicles under 453.6 kilograms (1000 pounds) with three or more low pressure tires are allowed between December 1 and April 30.

Hopefully they're not breaking any laws. Their plates and faces are in clear view...what did the RCMP or ESRD say? (310-ESRD)

Frankly, I don't see the fun in getting stuck in mud...I do it enough for work. It sucks. And I prefer riding on smooth trails that aren't all rutted up...but to each their own, as long as it's legal. If they truly are doing damage to sensitive habitat or something, I would hope ESRD would advise appropriately.

As an environmentalist I'm more concerned with things like this: http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/cal-fire-wind-turbine-generator-caused-wildland-fire-charred-367-acres

The weight restriction is for the time period quoted in the paragraph. It changes to ALL at a different time which can be found in the brochure linked below


http://aep.alberta.ca/recreation-public-use/recreation-on-public-land/public-land-use-zones/documents/KananaskisPLUZ-BrochureMap-Jul2015.pdf

[brslk]

White sunglasses and all. If ya get stuck, just pin the gas pedal! :snapoutofit:

[jungleboy]

You tube is full of videos like that because ,like a bad train wreck ,that is what people want to see. There are plenty of videos of responsible riding as well but that wouldn't get much attention on here now would it.

Perhaps we need a sticky for the OHV / ATV haters so they can get wimper and moan on a daily basis without having to constantly start a new thread.

[hal53]

You tube is full of videos like that because ,like a bad train wreck ,that is what people want to see. There are plenty of videos of responsible riding as well but that wouldn't get much attention on here now would it.

Perhaps we need a sticky for the OHV / ATV haters so they can get wimper and moan on a daily basis without having to constantly start a new thread.
...or the responsible users should quit worrying about the "pack mentality" and deal with the irresponsible ones within their ranks before all the back country is shut down for everyone?

[Taco]

...or the responsible users should quit worrying about the "pack mentality" and deal with the irresponsible ones within their ranks before all the back country is shut down for everyone?

Well well! You and I agree.:)

[Wolfslayer]

https://youtu.be/-iwZrp2OWHo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSWENQ8INyM

https://youtu.be/EzwXECDkk8M

Go to Caroline you'll see why. Especially after a long weekend.

[elkhunter11]

...or the responsible users should quit worrying about the "pack mentality" and deal with the irresponsible ones within their ranks before all the back country is shut down for everyone?

+1 But the majority of people just want to mind their own business.:thinking-006:

Then when the back country is shout down to atvs, and it becomes their business, they will whine and cry:(

[jungleboy]

...or the responsible users should quit worrying about the "pack mentality" and deal with the irresponsible ones within their ranks before all the back country is shut down for everyone?

Your right Hal . I'll get my gun and head out there right now.It's a 5 hr drive but I'll lay down the law when I get there . You on the other hand, just relax in your chambers and pass judgment from there.:rolleye2:

[Wolfslayer]

:Your right Hal . I'll get my gun and head out there right now.It's a 5 hr drive but I'll lay down the law when I get there . You on the other hand, just relax in your chambers and pass judgment from there.:rolleye2:

:fighting0030::party0052:

[catnthehat]

If these vidos were taken in a designated area, what is the issue?
People wheeln' in other areas?
Cat

[elkhunter11]

Your right Hal . I'll get my gun and head out there right now.It's a 5 hr drive but I'll lay down the law when I get there . You on the other hand, just relax in your chambers and pass judgment from there.:rolleye2:

Why bother making any effort to help control the irresponsible atv users, just mind your own business have fun,, and then complain when you have nowhere left to ride in the wilderness due to closures.:thinking-006:

[hal53]

Your right Hal . I'll get my gun and head out there right now.It's a 5 hr drive but I'll lay down the law when I get there . You on the other hand, just relax in your chambers and pass judgment from there.:rolleye2:
good plan :thinking-006:, always works best when you let somebody else look after your issues, cause you can bet your quad that the people that are going to shut you down are sitting back in some comfy chambers....it's called the Legislature...

[bessiedog]

Hal wins

Wins hands down

Sums up the best 'anti' argument well.

[jungleboy]

good plan :thinking-006:, always works best when you let somebody else look after your issues

Seems to be your M.O.

[Talking moose]

I wonder if the atv forums complain about the lack of animals they are seeing and make a stink about what the hunters are doing to the animal populations...? Ban hunting! :sHa_sarcasticlol: oh the irony.:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[jungleboy]

I wonder if the atv forums complain about the lack of animals they are seeing and make a stink about what the hunters are doing to the animal populations...? Ban hunting! :sHa_sarcasticlol: oh the irony.:sHa_sarcasticlol:

No I think most other forums tend to be less confrontational (at least the ones I have visited). AO seem to be it's own cauldron of discontent on most topics of discussion. Lots of frustrated angry armchair quarterbacks here

[catnthehat]

McLean Creek

Off-highway vehicles (OHV) permitted on existing trails unless otherwise indicated.
Only vehicles under 453.6 kilograms (1000 pounds) with three or more low pressure tires are allowed between December 1 and April 30.

Hopefully they're not breaking any laws. Their plates and faces are in clear view...what did the RCMP or ESRD say? (310-ESRD)

Frankly, I don't see the fun in getting stuck in mud...I do it enough for work. It sucks. And I prefer riding on smooth trails that aren't all rutted up...but to each their own, as long as it's legal. If they truly are doing damage to sensitive habitat or something, I would hope ESRD would advise appropriately.

As an environmentalist I'm more concerned with things like this: http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/cal-fire-wind-turbine-generator-caused-wildland-fire-charred-367-acres
It is a club function apparently so one can only suppose that they stay inside the law .
it IS a Jeep club however, so who knows??:sHa_sarcasticlol:
Personally speaking, I could never see the fun in dumping a pile of cash into a rig just to break it every time you go out.
I now other guys love it , though .
Cat

[jungleboy]

It is a club function apparently so one can only suppose that they stay inside the law .
it IS a Jeep club however, so who knows??:sHa_sarcasticlol:
Personally speaking, I could never see the fun in dumping a pile of cash into a rig just to break it every time you go out.
I now other guys love it , though .
Cat

I hear you Cat . I wen't out yesterday to Blue Ridge area with my Ranger .My friend want to try out his new shotgun. By the time we got where we were to unload I left my machine on the trailer . Couldn't stand the thought of cleaning all the mud from under the Ranger just from the condition of the roads let alone the trails.

[ForwardBias]

...or the responsible users should quit worrying about the "pack mentality" and deal with the irresponsible ones within their ranks before all the back country is shut down for everyone?

Yup.

[rugatika]

It is a club function apparently so one can only suppose that they stay inside the law .
it IS a Jeep club however, so who knows??:sHa_sarcasticlol:
Personally speaking, I could never see the fun in dumping a pile of cash into a rig just to break it every time you go out.
I now other guys love it , though .
Cat

Nope, not my idea of fun either, but to each their own. They seem to be obeying all the laws, so good to see people out enjoying the outdoors. When we're out riding trails like that I see lots of families out together having a great time in their 4 wheel contraptions. :)

[Grizzly Adams]

Go to Caroline you'll see why. Especially after a long weekend.

You just have to stand at the traffic lights in Sundre, Sunday evening, to watch the mud covered parade on the way back to town. :D

Grizz

[catnthehat]

Nope, not my idea of fun either, but to each their own. They seem to be obeying all the laws, so good to see people out enjoying the outdoors. When we're out riding trails like that I see lots of families out together having a great time in their 4 wheel contraptions. :)

Kids will be kids!
Cat
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/catnthehat/truck%20album/twotrucks_zpsefa09564.jpeg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/catnthehat/media/truck%20album/twotrucks_zpsefa09564.jpeg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/catnthehat/truck%20album/toyota1_zpsq7i9h6ka.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/catnthehat/media/truck%20album/toyota1_zpsq7i9h6ka.jpg.html)

[recce43]

don't worry logging company will come in and clear cut .

[catnthehat]

don't worry logging company will come in and clear cut .

I the bottom pic that 4Runner is actually on an old skidder trail!:)
Cat

[ctd]

It's funny the title of this post is OHV. Mostly what I seen there was highway vehicles driving in the mud.

Let's not put truth and proper headings on things. Instead let's spread the word on the anti crowed

Soon enough you won't be able to camp out west. Nor will you be able to hunt out west. Simply because driving off the paved road Will be deemed destruction of mother nature.

Have fun with that.

I use to quad every set of days off. I have witnessed a huge change in a few areas. Mostly it's from running full size vehicles down the trails.
For the longest time I couldn't figure it out. How did the ruts get so deep, after all most quads would not be able to get threw these,let alone make them.
Then I found some videos of the culprits. Full size trucks. Was mad as heck. I thought how dare they ruin awesome quad trails. I was steamed for a while. Untill I realized the forests and trails are to be shared by all of us. Also realized that if the trail is left alone for a couple of years things grow back in and nature does its thing.

I guess what I am getting at is be responsible. Be happy you and others can enjoy the out doors. Let's not segregate one group from another. Let's support each other in our activities. Let's work towards a compromise between what you think is right and what I think is right. Then fight for the Middle ground for all users. Before those rights are removed.

[jungleboy]

It's funny the title of this post is OHV. Mostly what I seen there was highway vehicles driving in the mud.

Let's not put truth and proper headings on things. Instead let's spread the word on the anti crowed

Soon enough you won't be able to camp out west. Nor will you be able to hunt out west. Simply because driving off the paved road Will be deemed destruction of mother nature.

Have fun with that.

I use to quad every set of days off. I have witnessed a huge change in a few areas. Mostly it's from running full size vehicles down the trails.
For the longest time I couldn't figure it out. How did the ruts get so deep, after all most quads would not be able to get threw these,let alone make them.
Then I found some videos of the culprits. Full size trucks. Was mad as heck. I thought how dare they ruin awesome quad trails. I was steamed for a while. Untill I realized the forests and trails are to be shared by all of us. Also realized that if the trail is left alone for a couple of years things grow back in and nature does its thing.

I guess what I am getting at is be responsible. Be happy you and others can enjoy the out doors. Let's not segregate one group from another. Let's support each other in our activities. Let's work towards a compromise between what you think is right and what I think is right. Then fight for the Middle ground for all users. Before those rights are removed.


This kind of attitude doesn't play well around here.

[crane_guy]

Everytime you attack another outdoor enthusiasts hobby, you jeopardize your own hobby. There are too many powerful people that want to see land used for hiking, biking and horseback only.
We need to self police and avoid attacking each other.
To the op that restriction is for a few months and that's it. At least be smart enough to know what your talking about at before you start typing.

[hal53]

Did anybody read the OP's title?.....the word is environmentalists ..not hunters, not horseback riders, not fishermen , and to slag everyone else for saying there is a certain faction of your group that is ruining it for everyone does nothing to solve the issue. Nobody wants to see anything banned, but as has been stated many times if something is not done about the bad actors by the responsible folks it will get looked after by someone else...not in anybody's favor most likely. The green brigade has the ear of our current policy makers, be very, very aware of that

[KBF]

...or the responsible users should quit worrying about the "pack mentality" and deal with the irresponsible ones within their ranks before all the back country is shut down for everyone?

I guess about the only way to actually do this with out an altercation is to get pics and license plates. Most people have a phone that will take a pic.

I don't think that it's should be left only to the responsible riders to do this but anyone who comes across this. As you said everyone will be locked out. Everyone should report then.

[pikergolf]

Did anybody read the OP's title?.....the word is environmentalists ..not hunters, not horseback riders, not fishermen , and to slag everyone else for saying there is a certain faction of your group that is ruining it for everyone does nothing to solve the issue. Nobody wants to see anything banned, but as has been stated many times if something is not done about the bad actors by the responsible folks it will get looked after by someone else...not in anybody's favor most likely. The green brigade has the ear of our current policy makers, be very, very aware of that

Was a time when hunters, horseback riders and fisherman were environmentalists. Seems like such a long time ago. :(

[jungleboy]

Did anybody read the OP's title?.....the word is environmentalists ..not hunters, not horseback riders, not fishermen , and to slag everyone else for saying there is a certain faction of your group that is ruining it for everyone does nothing to solve the issue. Nobody wants to see anything banned, but as has been stated many times if something is not done about the bad actors by the responsible folks it will get looked after by someone else...not in anybody's favor most likely. The green brigade has the ear of our current policy makers, be very, very aware of that

Hal , while your approach may seem reasonable on the surface ,but it is overly simplistic . Those who ride responsibly tend to group together and go about there hobby where they mostly don't come in contact with those who don't. You seem to think that responsible riders should be cruising the back country vigilante style in search of culprits and laying down the law .
Do you chase down speeders on the hwy or any other thing you disagree with or do you just go on line and complain about the things that annoy you?

I understand that it's a problem in some areas and I understand that the easy thing to do is to group all atvr's into a category of drunks and louts that as a group care nothing for the environment. After all that is what the anti gun folks love to do with gun owners isn't it ? Whats the difference between a guy that owns an rifle and a guy that uses one to hurt people? The antis want us to believe both are guilty by asociation

I own an atv I ride it on trails a few weekends a summer and hunt with it in the fall . I ride with a couple of others and we rarely come into contact with others let alone those that are willfully causing damage.

I have stated in other posts a few of what I think are reasonable and effective solutions to this issue but as expected ,got no response . I get responses when I stir the pot but not when offering solutions . That tells me that even though people ask for solutions ,what they really want is an online war of words .

[Wolfslayer]

You just have to stand at the traffic lights in Sundre, Sunday evening, to watch the mud covered parade on the way back to town. :D

Grizz

If people want to quad and off road that is fine, I do. Have respect for others, the land and tread lightly.

[Walleyedude]

Hal , while your approach may seem reasonable on the surface ,but it is overly simplistic . Those who ride responsibly tend to group together and go about there hobby where they mostly don't come in contact with those who don't. You seem to think that responsible riders should be cruising the back country vigilante style in search of culprits and laying down the law .
Do you chase down speeders on the hwy or any other thing you disagree with or do you just go on line and complain about the things that annoy you?

I understand that it's a problem in some areas and I understand that the easy thing to do is to group all atvr's into a category of drunks and louts that as a group care nothing for the environment. After all that is what the anti gun folks love to do with gun owners isn't it ? Whats the difference between a guy that owns an rifle and a guy that uses one to hurt people? The antis want us to believe both are guilty by asociation

I own an atv I ride it on trails a few weekends a summer and hunt with it in the fall . I ride with a couple of others and we rarely come into contact with others let alone those that are willfully causing damage.

I have stated in other posts a few of what I think are reasonable and effective solutions to this issue but as expected ,got no response . I get responses when I stir the pot but not when offering solutions . That tells me that even though people ask for solutions ,what they really want is an online war of words .

Excellent post.

Very well stated summary of the situation, especially on this forum...

[The Cook]

Was a time when hunters, horseback riders and fisherman were environmentalists. Seems like such a long time ago. :(

Well said Piker, I think it still rings true.

[bdub]

This kind of attitude doesn't play well around here.

Excellent post.

Very well stated summary of the situation, especially on this forum...

Not sure what you guys expect for a response from many forum members about this particular issue. Do you think that many hunters, who happen to be the most hardcore conservationists out there, are going to support the ATV nonsense that has been going on. Folks have put up with it for a long time but many are getting plain sick of it, sorry to say. It is highly controversial and a great many outdoorsmen are not in support of what has been going on with the destruction caused by ATV's in the west. Jungleboy is threatening to go all out anti hunter and sign every anti hunting petition out there if ATV's are banned from the backcountry. Good grief. If you want to crab about something why don't you go to the "ATV's Ruining the Backcountry Forum" and whine over there and quit crying over the poor reception you get from some of us on this issue.

[jungleboy]

There's an "ATV's ruining the back country forum"? I would think you would be all over that one .Do you sponsor it?
I'm not whining , I don't ride the so called, " back country " you are the one that seems to be doing all the whining. I was trying to be constructive and offer a solution . But you don't want to hear it . so carry on.

Where I ride ,and hunt there is no problem with ATVs tearing up the trails . there is issues with jacked up 4x4 trucks rutting up some the accessible roads with their horse trailers and big tires. but that's another issue . When they ban the atv's in your little hunk o paradise which I'm sure they will eventually .then you can start to sweat cuz high horses and foot traffic will follow . I'm sure when that happens it will be everyone else's fault as well.

life's a beach and then you die right?

[JimPS]

Was a time when hunters, horseback riders and fisherman were environmentalists. Seems like such a long time ago. :(

Like another poster said, I think this still holds true for the majority of hunters, fisherman and horseback riders.

The problem lies with the fact that there's been a massive explosion in recreational OHV usage, and a lot of these riders and mudders are not environmentalists or conservationists.

One solution would be to make it financially prohibitive to destroy public lands for recreation.

Private operators could step in and provide private OHV parks for a fee.

[does it ALL outdoors]

The only problem I saw in the first vid is he needs better tires. And the white Oakleys. Just a little dirt and mud being moved around that's all, not like they are dumping used oil or garbage everywhere. I could understand if it was a protected area but nobody would ever know about this if the vids were never posted. Was somebody planning to build a zen garden in that exact spot? When done properly and with respect offroading from dirtbikes on up to purpose built trucks is some serious good fun. Obviously the OHV (quads and side by sides) sales have exploded and with limited area to run them and this is what you get. Imagine half of the city's roads being closed, what would happen to what's left? Destruction from over use. Has anyone looked at an official designated trail map for Alberta? Hardly any dedicated trails so the very few there are get rutted up real quick. More trails and education is what is needed IMHO

[drhu22]

The only problem I saw in the first vid is he needs better tires. And the white Oakleys. Just a little dirt and mud being moved around that's all, not like they are dumping used oil or garbage everywhere. I could understand if it was a protected area but nobody would ever know about this if the vids were never posted. Was somebody planning to build a zen garden in that exact spot? When done properly and with respect offroading from dirtbikes on up to purpose built trucks is some serious good fun. Obviously the OHV (quads and side by sides) sales have exploded and with limited area to run them and this is what you get. Imagine half of the city's roads being closed, what would happen to what's left? Destruction from over use. Has anyone looked at an official designated trail map for Alberta? Hardly any dedicated trails so the very few there are get rutted up real quick. More trails and education is what is needed IMHO

Im pretty sure that the silt from that would seriously affect spawning beds if they were not far downstream.

[mad mountain mike]

Looks like Y to Y is getting ready to set its sites on the Bighorn region.
https://y2y.net/news/updates-from-the-field/protecting-the-bighorn-wildland?utm_source=E-Connections_Mar2016&utm_campaign=Yellowstone+to+Yukon%3A+Vision+to+Rea lity&utm_medium=email

[Bushrat]

The only problem I saw in the first vid is he needs better tires. And the white Oakleys. Just a little dirt and mud being moved around that's all, not like they are dumping used oil or garbage everywhere. I could understand if it was a protected area but nobody would ever know about this if the vids were never posted. Was somebody planning to build a zen garden in that exact spot? When done properly and with respect offroading from dirtbikes on up to purpose built trucks is some serious good fun. Obviously the OHV (quads and side by sides) sales have exploded and with limited area to run them and this is what you get. Imagine half of the city's roads being closed, what would happen to what's left? Destruction from over use. Has anyone looked at an official designated trail map for Alberta? Hardly any dedicated trails so the very few there are get rutted up real quick. More trails and education is what is needed IMHO

If that's the case why do people buy the things if there is no where to use them? Because they don't give a crap. If they are so great why do the owners of these machines not tear up their own property with them. I know people who won't allow these machines on their own property, and if they do use their own machines on their own land it's only family and they use them very carefully or in designated spots only, if they catch trespassers quadding on their land they lose their mind. Yet on the weekend these landowners will truck them to crown land and go hard ripping 'er up. Why do people think it's ok to tear up the publics land if it's not ok to tear up their own land.

It comes down to simply having no respect. It was never ok to go tear up crown land with these machines but in the beginning they were tolerated at first as they were few of them and they were not the power monster rip and tear machines we have today. They were given an inch and they took over and today there are multitudes of these people and machines who think it is their right to go tear up our crown land.

[JDK71]

Go to Caroline you'll see why. Especially after a long weekend.

I hear that we go out on the Tuesday after the long weekend and pick garbage and look around at the mess

[Dirty samsquanch]

It seems that a lot of people feel that there are no rules in the bush. So many people feel it is there right to do as they please when they leave the constraints of town.

[Sledhead71]

Simple enforcement of the existing laws would ensure these lands are open for access for many generations to enjoy...

There has been pretty much zero enforcement on many of these lands which has led to a free for all we currently deal with... I for one am against loosing more lands for recreational purposes.

[fish_e_o]

some people like hunting some people like fishing others like playing in the mud.

big fricking deal if you don't like it buy your own land and don't do anything on it. but as long as guys are following the rules have at it

[mac1983]

I,ve seen a cattle herd do some major damage on crown leases. Should we ban cattle as well ? Not, free range meat is the best. My opinion is that crown land is a resource, a resource that we should to able to use to better all of our lives weather it's for recreation or for business. These anti everything crowd are getting old. Bar everything but foot access and shut down all cattle leases on crown land, lol do people actually know how much crown land is out there? It is a resource that we should all be able to use to enrich our lives weather we are tree huggers, hunters, fisherman, trappers, bikers, horsemen, cattlemen, oilmen and loggers. We are Albertans this is how we live, you can not make laws about stupidity i see it everyday not only on crown land, let's just be Albertan's... Nature is pretty tough, it won't take long and nature will take it all back again once we are all gone...

[JDK71]

some people like hunting some people like fishing others like playing in the mud.

big fricking deal if you don't like it buy your own land and don't do anything on it. but as long as guys are following the rules have at it

yes that is what I have done and there is no gun shots in the middle of the night and you don't have to lock up the cooler anymore It got to a point were it is to crazy to be out there at night on long weekends (west) of Caroline I love the west but not so much that it is wourth putting the family at risk

[sjd]

Its currently illegal to dip your wheels in any creek or stream thats not part of designated trail network - which means the whole of northern Alberta or Caroline/Rocky etc that's not a designated public land use zone or PLUZ.

Increased enforcement would help, but most users have no idea that what they are doing is illegal.

Lets get some bridges built. There's no room in Alberta in 2016 for driving vehicles in streams.

[beltburner]

Must be spring- Everyone is blaming quads for all the damage in the backcountry.
Quick take a picture of some mud and blame quad riders for destroying the earth.

[fargineyesore]

Yes the sanctimonious hypocrites are out in full force.

[fargineyesore]

If that's the case why do people buy the things if there is no where to use them? Because they don't give a crap. If they are so great why do the owners of these machines not tear up their own property with them. I know people who won't allow these machines on their own property, and if they do use their own machines on their own land it's only family and they use them very carefully or in designated spots only, if they catch trespassers quadding on their land they lose their mind. Yet on the weekend these landowners will truck them to crown land and go hard ripping 'er up. Why do people think it's ok to tear up the publics land if it's not ok to tear up their own land.

It comes down to simply having no respect. It was never ok to go tear up crown land with these machines but in the beginning they were tolerated at first as they were few of them and they were not the power monster rip and tear machines we have today. They were given an inch and they took over and today there are multitudes of these people and machines who think it is their right to go tear up our crown land.
Your opinion only. Your like a stuck record and completely full of ****. You need Prozac or something for your lousy attitude.

[fargineyesore]

You know a bunch of you "conservationists" sit here and criticize ohvs as all a bunch of drunk environmental destroyers but cry like baby's how unfair it is when anti gun advocates lump you all in with poachers, murderers and gang bangers. You guys are pathetic.

[does it ALL outdoors]

some people like hunting some people like fishing others like playing in the mud.

big fricking deal if you don't like it buy your own land and don't do anything on it. but as long as guys are following the rules have at it
Exactly.. with the emphasis on following the rules. A lot of the quad & SXS guys could use some outdoor etiquette but so could a small demographic of almost any outdoor sport, bad apples can spoil any bunch. Its not just quads

[J0HN_R1]

There's no room in Alberta in 2016 for driving vehicles in streams.

3 weeks ago another member & I were at the back corner of McLean Creek were it borders the Elbow River, scouting for wolves.

As we got out, 3 side-by-sides drove up out of the river and proceeded past us and the big green sign that read "END OF OHV ZONE - MOTORIZED VEHICLES PROHIBITED BEYOND THIS POINT"...

I should've said something to them, but wasn't prepared for any confrontation & we were way out of cell-phone reception.

:rolleye2:

[mac1983]

A hunter came on my land with no permission and shot an elk out of a herd that has been living with no worries do we ban hunting?

[Bushrat]

Your opinion only. Your like a stuck record and completely full of ****. You need Prozac or something for your lousy attitude.

Wha wha wha..... Your opinion is the minority and you guys can't handle it. Quadders are getting their pee pee's slapped for being stupid, you reap what you sew, did you really expect anything different, you guys keep doing the same old stupid crap somehow expecting a different outcome.

[Talking moose]

Wha wha wha..... Your opinion is the minority and you guys can't handle it. .

Are you talking this specific forum or in general? Would be interesting to see the general opinion instead of only the vocal ones.

[Bushrat]

Are you talking this specific forum or in general? Would be interesting to see the general opinion instead of only the vocal ones.

In general. The general public see whats happening out there and are not impressed.

[Bushrat]

You know a bunch of you "conservationists" sit here and criticize ohvs as all a bunch of drunk environmental destroyers but cry like baby's how unfair it is when anti gun advocates lump you all in with poachers, murderers and gang bangers. You guys are pathetic.

Quadders should be out advocating to rid their ranks of idiots and drunks instead of advocating a free for all. The good one already are doing that and forming associations to deal with some of the problems.
Pretty much all hunters and fishers advocate calling in poachers and having rules and regulations to follow. There is a whole booklet of rules for each sport and numbers to call in and report violators.

Quadders need to do the same or they will gain even more opposition and continue to loose ground. It's coming down to two choices for quadders: #1 Regulate yourselves. Or #2 Someone else will.

[Bushrat]

You know a bunch of you "conservationists" sit here and criticize ohvs as all a bunch of drunk environmental destroyers but cry like baby's how unfair it is when anti gun advocates lump you all in with poachers, murderers and gang bangers. You guys are pathetic.

So do you also think the Quadding Associations and groups trying to set an example and build legitimate trails and stream crossings, who organize trips , runs, poker rallies, work parties and advocate treading lightly are also "conservationists" who are against you?

[jungleboy]

If that's the case why do people buy the things if there is no where to use them? Because they don't give a crap. If they are so great why do the owners of these machines not tear up their own property with them. I know people who won't allow these machines on their own property, and if they do use their own machines on their own land it's only family and they use them very carefully or in designated spots only, if they catch trespassers quadding on their land they lose their mind. Yet on the weekend these landowners will truck them to crown land and go hard ripping 'er up. Why do people think it's ok to tear up the publics land if it's not ok to tear up their own land.

It comes down to simply having no respect. It was never ok to go tear up crown land with these machines but in the beginning they were tolerated at first as they were few of them and they were not the power monster rip and tear machines we have today. They were given an inch and they took over and today there are multitudes of these people and machines who think it is their right to go tear up our crown land.

You know these people? Have you said something to them about their actions? Have you tried to educate them that what they are doing is just as wrong on Crown land as it is on their own land? Have you seen them in action on Crown land and called the authorities? This should be a simple task if you know them and have seen them willfully damage Crown land. Or is this a fantasy story you made up in order to support your anti ATVr sentiment?

[denpacc]

I took a drive out to Waiparous/Ghost area on the weekend. The number of people shooting rifles and shot guns was astonishing. I can see problems ahead for us gun owners, no different than quadders. A few too many idiots will spoil it for the majority who are law abiding. So for those who want to "ban" OHV's, watch out what you wish for, outright banning is never a solution IMO.

The only solution I can see for OHV's is mandatory education (off-road courses), potential user fees with licensing to pay for management, and more enforcement with the already existing laws.

[fish_e_o]

The number of people shooting rifles and shot guns was astonishing. I can see problems ahead for us gun owners, no different than quadders.

maybe they'll stop closing down ranges then

[bessiedog]

Should we ban

Increase enforcement and penalties.

Keep the same.


We ALL better self regulate. Or the ban hammer will be a coming.

When your machine trashes the trail I wuz using..... I gots problems wit you.

That's not sharing the resource.

If your legal.... Then I'm good.

Is it really illegal to use any vehicle to off road in FLUZ zones?

I phoned in a complaint about a couple of guys that decided to seriously bogg up an area I run through....... Fish cops said there's nothing they can do about it.

I run deeper into the bush now.

[AbAngler]

https://youtu.be/-iwZrp2OWHo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSWENQ8INyM

https://youtu.be/EzwXECDkk8M

I didn't watch all the vids, but looks like fun!

AlbertaBoy1, if those old vids get your panties in a knot, your head would explode if you came out with us. And I would laugh. Loudly.

[5Lgreenback]

I didn't notice any OHV's in any of those videos?

Not my cup of tea, but I believe they are on off roading truck trails in what looks to be McLean creek.

Same ol same here one group trying to eliminate eradicate another group in an attempt to make sure only their outdoor pursuits are good to go. Ignorance and selfishness.

FYI I'm not a fan of navigating those truck trails on my bike to get to the single track, but it's legal and its a very small area they are actually allowed to do that kind of off roading.

I love the hypocrisy as if people here actually think hunters and shooters have a better public image. Of course everybody on this site is a holier than thou ethical Hunter who is one with nature.:sHa_sarcasticlol: In realty a large percentage of hunters driver around in their 1 ton trucks drinking beer hoping one of their animals pops out so they can unload on it. Not too mention the on going issue with shooters on crown land and their reputations.

But keep fighting the good fight, we all need to make and enemy of someone it seems.

[Quinn]

Is it really illegal to use any vehicle to off road in FLUZ zones?

I phoned in a complaint about a couple of guys that decided to seriously bogg up an area I run through....... Fish cops said there's nothing they can do about it.

.

Illegal, or LEGAL?

There are size, and I believe weight restrictions on vehicles for certain trial types.

Ie, ATV trails have a maximum width, Motorcycle trails are for motorcycles only (Take note quaders!), and truck trails have the least rules. All motorcycle and ATV's can use truck trails.

We have a problem. Both with shooting and offroad use in the back country.

I'd be for fees, but without lawful enforcement nobody will pay them if they aren't constantly checked and fined for not paying them.

I'd also want a certain portion of the fees to be issued back to the clubs for trail repair and maintenance.

Like people shooting, self enforcing is not easy, and nearly impossible without lawful backing of the enforcing.

[Bushrat]

You know these people? Have you said something to them about their actions? Have you tried to educate them that what they are doing is just as wrong on Crown land as it is on their own land? Have you seen them in action on Crown land and called the authorities? This should be a simple task if you know them and have seen them willfully damage Crown land. Or is this a fantasy story you made up in order to support your anti ATVr sentiment?

There you have it, another one who gets defensive when people object to environmental abuse by quadders. You people need to get it through your heads that the public are not against quads, they are against the people who abuse the environment with them. Unfortunately the environment is being unreasonably damaged in some areas and the abuse continues so it appears that the only way to stop this damage is to ban the use of quads in those areas. Quadders anger should be directed at the Abusive quadders.


As far as hypocrite landowners, Yes I worked for one of them and I know several who wouldn't let anyone on their land to quad, hunt, no permission granted for anything and if they caught someone on their land hunting or quadding they were out there chasing them down or phoning the rcmp or the wardens. Yet they tow their quads out to the west country and rip, tear, drive in the muskeg and creeks and think it is their right because it is crown land and laugh at me when I point out the hypocrisy one day when they were showing off a video of their exploits. These are the same people who get mad as a hornet when someone stops on the approach to their farm empties their ashtray and drops their fast food wrappers. They get right wound up about that. Then one day we go hunting and in the distance it takes to consume a Tims coffee and breakfast sandwich down a lease road his window goes down and fires it all out the window. I ask him what he's doing, stop the truck and he gives me a blank expression and says 'what?' I stopped, backed up and asked him to pick up his trash and he's like 'why, it's not hurting anything, there is trash all along these roads' I sad yah it's okay except when it's on 'your' driveway. Obviously so routine with him he never ever gave a thought to what he was doing, it was habit.

The problem is old habits die hard, people have abused their privilege and are used to and comfortable with their activity, they give it no thought, want to continue even though they are may now be aware of the damage they can do. They become very offended and defensive when people object to the damage they are doing. I don't think anyone wants to ban quads, what people want is quadders to be considerate of the environment. The minute someone mentions restrictions when it comes to quads or off roading many lash out with the type of diatribe present in some of the posts previous here. I suppose it is similar to back in the day when hunting and fishing regulations were put in place to conserve wildlife, there was surely a lot of folks objecting to it as they were used to taking whatever game and fish they wanted and they would continue cause nobody going to tell them what to do mentality. Fortunately those old dinosaurs died out and nowadays poachers are a small minority of the fishing and hunting community. As time goes by the old school quadders with the mentality of nobody gonna tell me where I can and can't go, I'll darn well do as I please will eventually go the way of the dinosaur and a community of far more respectful and environmentally aware users will prevail.

I believe the majority of quadders are respectful of the environment, and are just as offended by the abusers behavior as the general public are. Thankfully many are starting to speak out and things are slowly changing. The abusers if not already, will find their circle of support eroding away. You're seeing it right here on these pages.

[rugatika]

Just for clarity. What exactly constitutes environmental abuse?

[5Lgreenback]

Just for clarity. What exactly constitutes environmental abuse?

And there in lies the problem, going down this road will only end in everybody being equally miserable.

[jungleboy]

There you have it, another one who gets defensive when people object to environmental abuse by quadders. You people need to get it through your heads that the public are not against quads, they are against the people who abuse the environment with them. Unfortunately the environment is being unreasonably damaged in some areas and the abuse continues so it appears that the only way to stop this damage is to ban the use of quads in those areas. Quadders anger should be directed at the Abusive quadders.


As far as hypocrite landowners, Yes I worked for one of them and I know several who wouldn't let anyone on their land to quad, hunt, no permission granted for anything and if they caught someone on their land hunting or quadding they were out there chasing them down or phoning the rcmp or the wardens. Yet they tow their quads out to the west country and rip, tear, drive in the muskeg and creeks and think it is their right because it is crown land and laugh at me when I point out the hypocrisy one day when they were showing off a video of their exploits. These are the same people who get mad as a hornet when someone stops on the approach to their farm empties their ashtray and drops their fast food wrappers. They get right wound up about that. Then one day we go hunting and in the distance it takes to consume a Tims coffee and breakfast sandwich down a lease road his window goes down and fires it all out the window. I ask him what he's doing, stop the truck and he gives me a blank expression and says 'what?' I stopped, backed up and asked him to pick up his trash and he's like 'why, it's not hurting anything, there is trash all along these roads' I sad yah it's okay except when it's on 'your' driveway. Obviously so routine with him he never ever gave a thought to what he was doing, it was habit.

The problem is old habits die hard, people have abused their privilege and are used to and comfortable with their activity, they give it no thought, want to continue even though they are may now be aware of the damage they can do. They become very offended and defensive when people object to the damage they are doing. I don't think anyone wants to ban quads, what people want is quadders to be considerate of the environment. The minute someone mentions restrictions when it comes to quads or off roading many lash out with the type of diatribe present in some of the posts previous here. I suppose it is similar to back in the day when hunting and fishing regulations were put in place to conserve wildlife, there was surely a lot of folks objecting to it as they were used to taking whatever game and fish they wanted and they would continue cause nobody going to tell them what to do mentality. Fortunately those old dinosaurs died out and nowadays poachers are a small minority of the fishing and hunting community. As time goes by the old school quadders with the mentality of nobody gonna tell me where I can and can't go, I'll darn well do as I please will eventually go the way of the dinosaur and a community of far more respectful and environmentally aware users will prevail.

I believe the majority of quadders are respectful of the environment, and are just as offended by the abusers behavior as the general public are. Thankfully many are starting to speak out and things are slowly changing. The abusers if not already, will find their circle of support eroding away. You're seeing it right here on these pages.


Bushrat . if you look a little closer at my post you will see that I said atvr's not atvs . If I come across as defensive it is because I don't like being lumped in with those that live to tear ruts and dig holes in sensitive back country areas . I constantly hear the "you guys should police yourselves and that is why I said what I said .
Police yourselves seems to be the equivalent to "it's not my problem it's yours so you fix it while I sit back and criticize "

I was asked on another thread what I do to help the situation.
(I'm paraphrasing I know) and Honestly this situation isn't really a factor where I ride ,but what I do is, I always keep a chainsaw in my machine and whenever necessary I clear the trails as I go so that others are not tempted to go around a fallen tree and off the trail. I put down logs and dead fall in a rutted or soft area in order keep it from getting worse . I run stock non aggressive factory tires that don't rip and chew everything they come in contact with.But mostly I asses the trail and use common sense if it is too mucky to keep going .

I will say this again and take it for what it's worth : A mandatory atv course similar to hunter training and firearms trianing , about atving and the damage they can do in sensitive areas that must be passed before you can register or insure your atv would go along ways to preventing some of these problems. More enforcement /heavy fines and even confiscation of atvs would be a big deterrent for those that refuse to learn. It doesn't have to be ban ,ban ban like some on here advocate.

[avb3]

About a century ago, hunters recognized that they had to be the ones to spearhead the conservation movement in North America. That got us Teddy Roosevelt, Aldo Leopold, Pittman-Robertson act in the USA and an ethic that was proactive among the vast, vast majority of hunters.

My suspicion is that if OHV users do not instill a conservation ethic to the vast majority of their users, their form of recreation will be severely curtailed. Reading some of the responses here would suggest that would be a good thing, as too many have the attitude, it's my OHV, I'll do with it what I want in the back country.

I also suspect OHV users won't have much time to deal with this. Restrictive legislation already exists in some States, and with this government that we have in Alberta, there are not a whole bunch that have any connection to the wilderness outside of Disney.

It is up to the OHV owners to quickly get their act together, but I'm betting it won't happen.

[HunterDave]

Wow, all this fuss about OHV's using existing trails in a designated OHV area. Doesn't anyone think that designating an area like this helps to reduce damage caused by OHV's in multiple other areas?

[Bushrat]

Bushrat . if you look a little closer at my post you will see that I said atvr's not atvs . If I come across as defensive it is because I don't like being lumped in with those that live to tear ruts and dig holes in sensitive back country areas . I constantly hear the "you guys should police yourselves and that is why I said what I said .
Police yourselves seems to be the equivalent to "it's not my problem it's yours so you fix it while I sit back and criticize "

I was asked on another thread what I do to help the situation.
(I'm paraphrasing I know) and Honestly this situation isn't really a factor where I ride ,but what I do is, I always keep a chainsaw in my machine and whenever necessary I clear the trails as I go so that others are not tempted to go around a fallen tree and off the trail. I put down logs and dead fall in a rutted or soft area in order keep it from getting worse . I run stock non aggressive factory tires that don't rip and chew everything they come in contact with.But mostly I asses the trail and use common sense if it is too mucky to keep going .

I will say this again and take it for what it's worth : A mandatory atv course similar to hunter training and firearms trianing , about atving and the damage they can do in sensitive areas that must be passed before you can register or insure your atv would go along ways to preventing some of these problems. More enforcement /heavy fines and even confiscation of atvs would be a big deterrent for those that refuse to learn. It doesn't have to be ban ,ban ban like some on here advocate.

Education will go a long way. The biggest hurdle ATVers have is the ignorant among their ranks. Most of you don`t know I and another AOmember here sat on the Eagle Point Blue Rapids Park Council when the Alberta Parks wanted to take all the crown land along the N Saskatchewan river and turn it into a park. I sat as a representative for 3 years going to countless meetings representing user groups, I represented the Gun club and there were representatives of the local ATV association among many other stakeholders. The gun club had a previous lease in that area for 30 some years so we had a foothold and pre existed the formation of the Park and recreation area. Many gun club members were active hunters and ATV users so we threw our clubs support behind the ATV people 100%. We did manage to have hunting still allowed in the Recreation area portion though they closed it completely in the Park portion. The ATV people had no such lease or tenure in this area other than people had been randomly quadding there for a few years. And there was/is rather obvious damage they have caused to riparian areas, hillside erosion problems etc. Park people didn't like that one bit. ATVers wanted to build a race track and they, the gun club and archery were pretty much the only active supporters for the ATV club. In the end the gun club got to stay because of our previous lease and existing facilities but the ATVracetrack and facilities they proposed were shot down even though the proposal passed every hurdle the Parks threw at us. They threw water quality, ground disturbance, noise decible level tests etc, etc at us and we passed every test. In the end all these proposals were denied the ATV proposal was relegated to a small area. No enforcement has been applied yet against the use of quads outside of this small ATV remnant area but the groundwork and regulations are now in place restricting where, when, camping areas, trails, parking everything is going to change. People are still random camping and quadding and no enforcement has taken place to date. The reason no enforcement has happened is Parks budget for enforcement has not been approved by the Provincial Gov't....Yet. When this does happen and it eventually will quadders will lose a big chunk of area they have taken for granted for years. The majority of users still have no idea that this has happened or is even in the works. They abusers are still down there ripping and tearing away. The mentality of a small portion of abusers of all users shooters, hunters, anglers and ATV'ers is apparent in the piles of garbage left at party spots, fishing spots, along the ATV trails, even the 'You are now Entering Blue Rapids Provincial Recreation Area' have been shot full of holes by some tool. This is what the general public sees and it is no wonder they think hunters, shooters, fishermen and ATVers are all a bunch of undesireable environmental abusers.

As I said before the framework is slowly being implemented to deal with this all over the province, they are sitting back watching us cut our own throats and despite the efforts of many outdoorsman and ATV groups who advocate to stop the abuse in order to prevent many areas from being shut down or deemed off limits to ATVers there is a sizeable and very vocal faction of them who are belligerent and go out of their way to show by their actions that they will not be regulated or told what to do. The outsiders who want this stopped don't care about the benevolent ATV'ers, the benevolent users will get taken down with the abusers when the abusers are dealt with.

It is quite apparent that the ATV community are largely unaware just how tight the noose around their neck is getting. Within the next couple of decades things will change rapidly unless they form a large and powerful group that will help set the groundwork for some sort of reform of the current situation. It is unfortunate that more ATV users don't or won't join one of the many ATV clubs out there to educate themselves and support their recreational activity.