Pike - leader material

[Khuntcb]

going out for some Pike / walleye this weekend, have braid on most of our reels from a saltwater trip last winter. With all the new materials (new from 30 years ago anyways) what are the current thoughts for leader material / knots / terminal tackle for the 'toothy creatures'.

Thanks in advance

[millsboy79]

My current pike set up is:

20lb sufix 832 mainline

50lb seaguar sts salmon fluorocarbon leader

Mustad Pro rigger ball bearing swivel with stainless steel coastlock snap

Usually running a swim style lure, inline savage, zombie maxx, or bass pro xps swimbait

Hope this helps

[cube]

I use titanium leaders mostly for pike. They are expensive compared to steel but last and last so in the end are actually cheaper than steel and don't kink.

Depending on what your doing will determine the pound test required. ie if your trolling or casting small lures a 30 lb test is fine. If casting large muskey lures esp with a bait cast reel then 80 - 100 lb test.

[Bemoredog]

x2 on the titanium leader. Has the ball bearing swivel and snap built in so that's a definite plus. I used to use steel but the kinking bothered me. The titanium is thinner and seems to provide better action too. And I like the convenience. I use 12 inch.

I'm just using 15 lb mono in moss green. Millsboy thinks I'm nuts to be using mono and something of such a light lb test. So far I haven't had any breakoffs, but the setup is new and it's only caught small Pike from Chesterslough.

In the future I'll probably upgrade to a 20-30lb braid and keep the titanium leader.

[spurly]

X3 on titanium leaders. They work great, get the 7 strand ones.

[wildbill]

I've recently switched to 50lbs seaguar fluoro I've had two bite off of about 60 pike and I swear they can't see it as much as a wire leader, and it doesn't kink like wire either. Was working in Manitoba and those guys out there swore by that stuff for going after weary Muskie.

[Bemoredog]

I should add: my setup is ONLY for Pike. Muskie, though in the same family as Pike, have entirely different behavior. But unless you're heading quite a ways East, I'm guessing you're not targeting them.

For Walleye I actually just use 15 lb braid with 10lb fluro leader connected to a swivel + snap. Over 50 Walleye caught and no breakoffs. That said, I do check my line for abrasion and if I see any I cut it off and retie. I had to do this a few times, but usually if you don't set too late the Walleye won't even have the line in their mouth and it'll just be the lure and swivel + snap.

[idaman]

I use mustad, fluorocarbon 130# leaders from the fishing hole, the fasttech or whatever it's called...attachment system is the best for attaching lures.
I will not waste money on titanium anymore after having one kink in 2 different locations.

[Tom Pullings]

30 pound power pro braid with a 50 pound seaguar fluoro leader for me. Have the best luck with buck tail inline spinners.

[cube]

I use mustad, fluorocarbon 130# leaders from the fishing hole, the fasttech or whatever it's called...attachment system is the best for attaching lures.
I will not waste money on titanium anymore after having one kink in 2 different locations.

I had a problem with some cheaper titanium leaders that came with cheap swivels. It was not the leader that broke but the swivel.

I now use primarily Finn-Tastic 7 strand leaders and even have one going into it's forth season (and that is summer and winter).

http://www.finn-tasticcanada.com/home.html

[EZM]

I tie my own out of 80lb Fluorocarbon Leader Material and use high quality swivels and swivel snaps on these leaders.

There are countless threads on this topic on this forum with some great information.

Over the last 4-5 years, and probably hundreds if not thousands of pike (I fish quite a bit) I have NEVER had a failure like a bite or break off.

Fluorocarbon is nearly invisible, supple, strong, abrasion resistant, won't cut your hand, won't cut the pike up and it's easy to tie.

I will never use titanium or steel leaders again - there is newer technology out there and fluorocarbon leader material is a great example.

Just make sure it's fluorocarbon LEADER material not just regular fluorocarbon line - as there is a BIG difference.

[millsboy79]

I tie my own out of 80lb Fluorocarbon Leader Material and use high quality swivels and swivel snaps on these leaders.

There are countless threads on this topic on this forum with some great information.

Over the last 4-5 years, and probably hundreds if not thousands of pike (I fish quite a bit) I have NEVER had a failure like a bite or break off.

Fluorocarbon is nearly invisible, supple, strong, abrasion resistant, won't cut your hand, won't cut the pike up and it's easy to tie.

I will never use titanium or steel leaders again - there is newer technology out there and fluorocarbon leader material is a great example.

Just make sure it's fluorocarbon LEADER material not just regular fluorocarbon line - as there is a BIG difference.
Where do you buy the 80lb? What brand do you use? I got my stuff at wholesale and they only had up to 50lb.

[scel]

Straight 60-80# fluorocarbon works well enough. I have only ever seen 1 fluoro leader fail (right after my friends said "I should probably change my leader"). I would tie this directly to your braid using albright or no-name knot. Depending on what you are fishing, it has the flexibility to knot to your desired set up (using a rapala loop for crankbaits, for example). You still have to check it for nicks and chips. PROS: flexible and easy. CONS: is the bottom 2' can get pretty nicked up after a day of fishing.

My preferred set up is based on my fly fishing leader (how I actually do most of my fishing). This is far more light-weight, but still strong enough to land 30lb pike. With small enough baits, you can pick up walleye and whitefish. Braid --(albright)-->4-6' 20# fluoro leader --(albright & UV knot cure)--> 1-2' 25# knot2kinky titanium single strand leader material --(uni knot)--> type 1 mustad fasatach clip. If you are fishing spoons, I might switch out the fasatach for a swivel clip. You can use any any trace, but single strand titanium is by far the best. It is super thin and does not kink.
PROS: I find it flexible enough for both casting and trolling (depends on the rod eyelets and your knot). Long-lasting. CONS: it is a lot of work over simply attaching a piece of fluoro or pre-manufactured leader. Hang-ups will break at the fasatch clip, but that is super simple to replace.

[RavYak]

Titanium or very minimum 40 lb fluoro leader material are your options for pike. Try them both see which one you prefer.

I'm a titanium guy for pike but will use fluoro for walleye.

[EZM]

Where do you buy the 80lb? What brand do you use? I got my stuff at wholesale and they only had up to 50lb.

I'm pretty sure I just picked it up, off the shelf, at the Fishin' Hole but I have seen it at Wholesale before as well - I don't recall what brand they carry or what test it was - but I purchased my last few rolls at the fishin hole.

The leader material comes in a large diameter roll (like 6"-8" across) with maybe 25-50 yards on it and it says leader material. It's not in a little box like the other regular lines. It's also pretty pricey (compared to regular line) but not too bad.

I have used a few brands ..... here's an example ..........

http://www.thefishinhole.com/index.cfm?action=product&se=27553

[cube]

I tie my own out of 80lb Fluorocarbon Leader Material and use high quality swivels and swivel snaps on these leaders.

There are countless threads on this topic on this forum with some great information.

Over the last 4-5 years, and probably hundreds if not thousands of pike (I fish quite a bit) I have NEVER had a failure like a bite or break off.

Fluorocarbon is nearly invisible, supple, strong, abrasion resistant, won't cut your hand, won't cut the pike up and it's easy to tie.

I will never use titanium or steel leaders again - there is newer technology out there and fluorocarbon leader material is a great example.

Just make sure it's fluorocarbon LEADER material not just regular fluorocarbon line - as there is a BIG difference.


Unfortunately I have had a couple of bite offs from my flouro leader material so now usually use the titanium.

I do have a number of flouro leaders tied up but now. If I use flouro I go with 100 to 130 pound test ones and only for more static presentations when I think the pike are being more finicky. That being said I have been doing a very rough test of titanium vs flouro on my tip-ups and quick strike rigs and have found them to be just about exactly equal while ice fishing. Some days it seems to be all flouro and the next all titanium.

I could be wrong here (probably am) but since seagar has been produing Flouro carbon since 1971 (http://www.kureha.co.jp/en/business/polymer/seaguar.html) and the patent for titanium leaders came out around 1995 (http://www.google.com/patents/US5875585) I would say that the titanium is the newer technology. lol :)

[huntsfurfish]

I like and prefer Titanium leaders for soft water and fluorocarbon leaders for hard water.

But I have used both in soft water and hard water.

If fishing for pike I would not want to use less then 50 pound test if I can help it and I prefer 80.

edit: Pike can and have bit through even 80 fluorocarbon even though it is not common. Never heard of a pike biting through a titanium leader(ever).

[EZM]

Unfortunately I have had a couple of bite offs from my flouro leader material so now usually use the titanium.

I do have a number of flouro leaders tied up but now if I use flouro I go with 100 to 130 pound ones and only for more static presentations when I think the pike are being more finicky. That being said I have been doing a very rough test of titanium vs flouro on my tip-ups and quick strike rigs and have found them to be just about exactly equal while ice fishing. Some days it seems to be all flouro and the next all titanium.

I could be wrong here (probably am) but since seagar has been produing Flouro carbon since 1971 (http://www.kureha.co.jp/en/business/polymer/seaguar.html) and the patent for titanium leaders came out around 1995 (http://www.google.com/patents/US5875585) I would say that the titanium is the newer technology. lol :)

You can't be serious ...... just because the "patent" was filed in 1995 doesn't change the fact titanium, as a product, in wire form, has been around for well over 100 years. Plastics (like fluorocarbon) have not been. Fluorocarbon, without dispute, is newer technology.

Either way - doesn't matter really. My point was that Fluorocarbon presents some significant advantages that I like.

Some may make the argument that they get bite through - but I have never seen it myself. None of the people I fish with have either. I'm not saying it's not possible - but I will suggest it's quite uncommon (maybe rare).

I will also say - I had a few "discussions" (on this forum) with people who said fluorocarbon leader material "keeps getting bite offs" only to find out later (from the same person) they were using fluorocarbon line.

Others have not been able to tie a proper knot.

Others are using leader material too thin for my comfort ( I use 80lb for Pike ) and could see something like a 40lb material quickly knick up and fail.

There's a HUGE difference between the line and the leader material. And, I'd offer, that 80lb is the right thickness for Pike. I wouldn't recommend anything lighter.

I've had outstanding and consistent performance using fluorocarbon leader material as many others have as well.

If you like titanium ......... cool .......... fill your boots ....... use it.

I like fluorocarbon leader and I'm filling my boots and loving the way it performs. I can't understate the advantages.

[scel]

Where do you buy the 80lb? What brand do you use? I got my stuff at wholesale and they only had up to 50lb.

It is important to look for leader material. They had 80# and 100# when I was there at Wholesale a few weeks ago. Berkeley Pro Spec (http://www.berkley-fishing.com/berkley-line-fluorocarbon-berkley-pro-spec/berkley-prospec-100%25-fluoro-leader-mat/1290572.html#start=1) is the brand that I use.

EDIT: I may have been at Calbelas. I visited both stores on the same day.

[Khuntcb]

Wow - didn't expect so much passion
thanks to all for their input / advice.
We will put it to the test next week and report back on the results (assuming the slough sharks are biting!!).:shark:

[scel]

This time, EZM, I am here to agree with you, but...

You can't be serious ...... just because the "patent" was filed in 1995 doesn't change the fact titanium, as a product, in wire form, has been around for well over 100 years. Plastics (like fluorocarbon) have not been. Fluorocarbon, without dispute, is newer technology.

This is incredibly disputable. Fluorocarbons were first synthesized in the early 1940s (World War 2). TiNi alloys were first discovered in 1959. The process of being able to extrude TiNi into wire did not happen until the 1980s. Ti-based alloy wire is a much newer technology.

Using your argument, since hydrocarbons have been synthesized since the Egyptians, fluorocarbons are a borderline ancient technology.


Some may make the argument that they get bite through - but I have never seen it myself. None of the people I fish with have either. I'm not saying it's not possible - but I will suggest it's quite uncommon (maybe rare).

I will also say - I had a few "discussions" (on this forum) with people who said fluorocarbon leader material "keeps getting bite offs" only to find out later (from the same person) they were using fluorocarbon line.

Others have not been able to tie a proper knot.


I have seen exactly one 80# fluoro leader fail, 25 seconds after the guy said "I should probably change my leader". It happened this spring after a spunky 7lb-er took his line over a sharp Canadian shield rock.

I have seen exactly one of my leaders fail because I did not properly knot the TiNi wire. I was fly casting. Line stopped. The hook kept flying.


Others are using leader material too thin for my comfort ( I use 80lb for Pike ) and could see something like a 40lb material quickly knick up and fail.

There's a HUGE difference between the line and the leader material. And, I'd offer, that 80lb is the right thickness for Pike. I wouldn't recommend anything lighter.

I've had outstanding and consistent performance using fluorocarbon leader material as many others have as well.

This is really important. It is important to leader material, not running line. My friend uses 60# and 80#, depending which spool he grabs first. He just changes the 60# more frequently. Since they are both expensive, the 80# is probably better bang-for-buck.

After a good amount of experimentation, I (mostly) agree with EZM, fluoro offers the easiest, most flexible, and most reliable dollar-for-dollar solution. If someone is the type of angler who likes to fuss over things for more specific applications, TiNi alloys will offer a wider breadth of solutions. For example, if you are cranking topwater baits/flies, 80# fluoro is heavy and bulky compared to a 25# single strand TiNi. In this case, you would probably better off using 20lb Mono leader (does not sink as fast) tied directly to 6-8" TiNi wire. But even fly fishing, topwater pike is less than 5% of your main action.

[Zuludog]

I prefer a GOOD titanium leader. I fish the NWT every year and have had my leaders last for years and years. In fact some are probably 5 years old and have caught hundreds and hundreds of fish and probably over 25 fish over 20 lbs and maybe a hundred or more over 15lbs. I've NEVER had one break or have ever seen one break, they also do double duty on large lake trout too so I know they can take a beating. I have no problems paying $15 for a quality titanium leader.

Very rarely I've seen line break, even 50 or 80lb power pro. :scared0018: This can happen to line abrasion on rocks mostly, or the line hits the prop or a sharp part of the boat. Even then with a good line an expensive leader should last almost forever. I'm too lazy to tie my own so I haven't used fluorocarbon, some of my guests have and I have seen it fail but it's still pretty durable too. Get heavy stuff whichever way that you go you won't regret it.

[millsboy79]

It is important to look for leader material. They had 80# and 100# when I was there at Wholesale a few weeks ago. Berkeley Pro Spec (http://www.berkley-fishing.com/berkley-line-fluorocarbon-berkley-pro-spec/berkley-prospec-100%25-fluoro-leader-mat/1290572.html#start=1) is the brand that I use.

EDIT: I may have been at Calbelas. I visited both stores on the same day.
Must have been cabelas the guy at the desk said at wholesale said the 50# what the largest they had. Otherwise was the 40lb in the fly fishing section.

[wildbill]

Since I switched to fluoro I've had way more hook ups, I've sight fished for them and noticed they aren't as picky when using fluoro as they are with wire leaders.

[dustinjoels]

What kind of knot are you guys using on 80-100 pound fluorocarbon leader material. I used the uniknot which has stood up well, but it ends up on the side of my swivels which is a bit funny.

I just finished a 4 day pike/walleye fishing trip with 7 friends. I was the only one using fluorocarbon leaders (80 pound Berkeley ProSpec). The big pike weren't very aggressive and we're kind of lathargic. When it wasn't windy, we could see them in the shallows, but had a hard time getting them to bite. I think because of the fact the pike were being kind of finicky, the fluorocarbon leaders played a part in the fact that I caught the most fish amongst our group of 8 all 4 days and I caught by far the most pike over 10 lbs. the last day alone I caught 25 pike over 10 lbs and the next closest guy had 7 over 10 lbs.

I have had 2 bite off on the 80 lb fluorocarbon leader material leaders. I find they usually last about 100 fish or so before they are nicked up and I change them at that point before they break. I usually just put a new one on first thing in the morning. Mine only cost $2-3 each to make so I have no issue putting a new one on everyday.

[cube]

What kind of knot are you guys using on 80-100 pound fluorocarbon leader material. I used the uniknot which has stood up well, but it ends up on the side of my swivels which is a bit funny.

.

Canoe Man knot works about the best for heavy flouro for connecting to lure, snap link, or swivel.

[RavYak]

I have had 2 bite off on the 80 lb fluorocarbon leader material leaders. I find they usually last about 100 fish or so before they are nicked up and I change them at that point before they break. I usually just put a new one on first thing in the morning. Mine only cost $2-3 each to make so I have no issue putting a new one on everyday.

$2-3 every day or even 2-3 days.

Or $8 indefinitely.

Just another reason I prefer titanium for leaders. They seem expensive but in the long term they are the cheapest option unless you are fishing in an area with lots of bad snags.

[Tom Pullings]

I'm certain I get more action with fluoro leaders. Plus the odd time something other than a pike will hit on a fluoro leader but I've never caught anything other than pike running a wire.

[RavYak]

I'm certain I get more action with fluoro leaders. Plus the odd time something other than a pike will hit on a fluoro leader but I've never caught anything other than pike running a wire.

I've caught tons of walleye on titanium.

Lure choice is more important then leader when it comes to actually catching fish.

Of course fish can see a titanium leader but with big flashy crankbaits and spoons it matters very little. Not like you are going for a very life like finesse presentation...

[cube]

A study has shown that fish can see Mono easier than Fluoro of the same poundage, so you can bet they can see Ti, NiTi and Steel leaders. Fish vision is generally as good as ours. Put all 3 in water and see which one you see less..

Hi Jet would you have a reference so I could look that study up.

Thx

[Bemoredog]

I was out fishing last night with a forum member who runs 50lb fluoro leader while I run a 30lb test titanium leader.

I landed 3 or 4 Pike over the period while I think he landed 1 or 2 more. I probably had half a dozen or so short strikes, bumps or missed sets and one fish throw the hook. I'm not sure what he had for missed sets, short strikes or bumps (but it was at least in the same range as my own), but I know there were at least 3 fish he had on that simply got away by running into the weeds. (If he sees this he can correct me).

So, if my math is right, and it's probably not entirely, he hooked possibly twice (or more) as many fish as I did. However, while I think this information is interesting and maybe even useful, it's still anecdotal and not a true experiment. I've listed some of the issues that cast the conclusions of this experiment into doubt below:


We didn't run identical lures.

Our lines were not usually out the same length.

We weren't always in the water at the same times.


The time we went before I was pretty clearly outfished. I landed 3 while he was nearing or even in double digits. I did have a large number of takes this time, but was really struggling with setting my hook/keeping the fish on.

My sense is that there probably is a difference, but I think it's likely marginal. I think the real factor here is lure choice since both times we were basically even for awhile, but when he swapped in a new lure (a zombie maxx in the first case, and a cabela's brand gold fish swim bait in the second), the fish seemed to really turn on.

[RavYak]

As you pointed out you can't really compare the two when using different lines etc.

Even if you used the same lures the same amount of line behind the boat then you would have to do 100s if not 1000s of hours of observation to make an informed decision on which worked best because even then just which side of the boat can be a significant factor.

As I stated before when you are using something like a crankbait etc you aren't really using a life like lure. They are attractants and most have built in movement, vibrations and noises that regular fish do not emit. You are primarily getting fish to bite on instinct/aggression rather then actually tricking them into thinking it is really a tasty meal.

Only a fraction of fish will bite such a lure and the ones that will usually would care less if there is a visible leader in front of the lure.

Now if we are talking about using a realistic lure, a jig head with a minnow, a drop shot with a minnow/leech, a hook with a worm etc. Something that is actually tapping into the fishes desire to feed rather then just strike out of aggression then that is when leaders get important. Especially with slow moving presentations as most of these bait presentations usually are.

People always claim they know fish are finicky of leaders because they see it ice fishing etc. Of course they do, you are seeing every fish that approaches your lure and usually ice fishing you are using something more realistic like say a jig head and minnow. If a realistic bait has a strange black line coming off it then that will turn fish off. But if you jig a less realistic lure like say a ripping rap that primarily gets the strike based off its erratic movement and noise then you would notice less difference in leader material effect on strike rates but you will also notice few fish even bother to bite such a lure just because of its action(although sometimes you will notice opposite because fish aren't interested in feeding but can be enticed to strike out of aggression instead).

As I said before type of lure will have a significantly larger difference on catching fish then a leader ever will have. If you are using finesse fishing methods(which crankbaits, spoons etc are not) then a leader will come into play but most people do not use such methods for pike as they are not really necessary. There is possibly an argument that finesse fishing methods will help you catch the bigger smarter pike but simply put if you are going to zone in on these fish that are too smart to bite a hook with a visible leader then you are going to have to change your tactics significantly anyways or just get lucky and catch said fish on an off day.

[ROA]

I have just been using a foot or two of 25 or 20lbs maxima floro leader material with a swivel between it and the braid and then a snap at the end. I have to tie new stuff on every once in a while when I feel a nick. Got probably 10 pike over 10 lbs with the largest at 20lbs with this set up and a boat load of little ones. Only ever had one cut the line and I watched it happen 5 feet away, 2 lbs pike took a poorly aimed swipe and his gill plate cut through the line like a knife. Probably only felt 2lbs of pull on the rod. Got the net and scooped up my $12 rapala that was floating away lol.

25lbs maxima is not totally bullet proof but as big as I am willing to go before I feel I am missing out on fish on the clearer water that at times are spooked or not biting well enough because of visible leaders.

For lakers on cold lake I use 12lbs berkly vanish as a leader and have found a definite advantage in hookup rates.

[cube]

You'll need to get the Keith Jones book for further information on this, but it was done at Berkeley Labs and here's a summary of it:

During our interview, Dr. Keith Jones shared information about an experiment he and his staff conducted regarding bass and their ability to visually detect line. This experiment was conducted at the Pure Fishing Research Center where behavioral research and testing is conducted in a 60ft. long by 15ft. wide and 6ft. deep tank. The test group for their experiment consisted of approximately 100 bass that were free to roam about in the tank. Over the course of 72 hours, researchers strung two different lines (Berkley Trilene XL 6lb. mono and Berkley Vanish 10lb. fluorocarbon as they both had the same diameter) by vertically attaching one end to the bottom of the tank and the other to the ceiling. One end of each line was attached to a pressure-sensitive counter that was triggered every time a bass came into contact with the line. The researchers left the lines in the water for approximately 12 hours at a time then moved the lines to different areas of the tank to eliminate any positional bias or habituation learning. Over the course of the experiment, the researchers noted that the bass touched the mono 170 times versus the fluorocarbon at 294 times. These figures helped assert their initial assumption that one, bass don’t like running into line and two, that the bass could actually see line. It also proved that bass were able to detect the mono line more often than the fluorocarbon; thus providing further proof that fluorocarbon is less visible to bass versus mono.

Also you might be interested in this about fishing being able to see certain line colors better than others:

http://digital.library.okstate.edu/oas/oas_pdf/v59/p34_40.pdf

The general conclusion is fish can see color (some colors better than others). Also water filters color (different colored water will filter it differently).
And ultimately (just like us), it's all about contrast of the object to the background.

Hence why refractive indexes and colors that match the background will be seen less by fish.

Which is why as a general rule, assuming line doesn't serve as an attractant, then clearer, flouro and smaller are better. With the exception of things like Maxima tinted to the water color (specific to the water body), i.e. low contrast but not clear. That's if you're in water where the fish can see.

Thx Jet I will certainly try and track Dr. Keith's book down. I sure would like to see what the control results looked like for that study as I'm sure they ran a heavy black line and a very small thin line as controls.

I would be interested in your opinion on

http://www.bigindianabass.com/files/fluoro_present.ppt

http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/the-truth-about-fluorocarbon.html

The math in the power point seems quite believable to me but is of course beyond my capabilities to follow fully.

Thanks again.

[millsboy79]

So for a clear object to be (very close to) invisible in water, the refractive index of the material needs to match that of water. If it does match, “theoretically” you can’t see it, because there’s no junction between the materials that can reflect or bend light. That said, Fluoro material is closer to the refractive index of water than mono is, so it’s less visible. Water is 1.3325 ( it can vary 1.32 - 1.34 depending on temperature, depth and salinity). Fluorocarbon is around 1.42, Mono is 1.53-1.62. Is Fluoro invisible in water? No, because the refractive indexes differ. Is it less visible than Mono in water, Yes because the refractive indexes are closer.

The conclusion the PPT presentation came to was that fluoro is not invisible and they’re correct in that.

The argument was cylinder versus slab and the light not being at right angles to the cylinder. Interesting theory, but not really supported by the evidence or physics. I noticed they didn’t specify what Fluoro they used, and although 100% Fluoro correctly spun/extruded is around 1.42, many Fluoros are not 100% or are Fluoro coated, because of the differing refractive indexes they’ll be highly visible. I believe that’s where they went wrong.

If their premise was even remotely correct, then this wouldn’t work: http://www.exploratorium.edu/snacks/disappearing-glass-rods
Pyrex (Borosilicate glass) has a refractive index of 1.47 (note this is further away from water than Fluoro (1.42)). Note this is also a cylinder.

Even Seaguar themselves don’t claim invisibility:
http://www.seaguar.com/applications/myths.html
MYTH: Fluorocarbon is completely invisible and matches the refractive index (the way light bends) of water.
FACT: No. It is as close as any form of line or leader can get to the refractive index of water, thus making it virtually invisible, but not completely. Some brands do state that, but it is not true.

But ultimately, the evidence is pretty compelling. Put some decent Fluoro and Mono in water (similar diameters) and compare them. And in case you haven’t got both on hand, check these out:

Showing Fluoro is less visible than Mono:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpgGfm6Q0rY
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pg7cOdvBb0I/maxresdefault.jpg

There’s also videos showing the opposite, therefore, get good line that is 100% Fluoro. When you look at good Fluoro lines, they look different, more matt, less shiny.

Ultimately, you get what you pay for, something that is formed well, is pure and isn’t dyed is best.
I watched the video and i didn't think vanish was 100% fluorocarbon. Guess that kind of makes the point. Even fluorocarbon covered mono is better than standard monofilament.

[millsboy79]

I believe Berkley Vanish is 100% Fluoro. They sell it both in mainline and leader. Although I don't know if the Berkley Vanish when that test was done is the same as now.
The fella at the wholesale sports fishing counter told me that vanish was fluorocarbon coated mono which is why Berkeley made the Trilene 100% fluorocarbon.

Guess he could have been blowing smoke I certainly don't know the chemical makeup of fishing line.

[millsboy79]

I think the Trilene is the Pro one, and Vanish the non pro. Looking back, since at least 2011, Berkely has sold a 100% Fluoro Vanish.

I dunno if there's more than one Vanish, or if they'l lying, but it says 100% Fluoro on the packet.

I don't buy the stuff anyway, I don't see the point of Fluoro Line (only leaders) and I've never been that impressed with Berkeley line although some of their leader material is cheaper.
Like Macdonald's 100% all beef wasn't always all beef.

Or any line that claims to be "invisible".

Although I can't find anything online that can back up his claim.