Suncor

[MrDave]

The b@@tards are now being charged for illegally dumping raw sewage into the Athabasca River for years.:mad2: Anybody want to stick up for the oilsand projects again?

[Jester]

The b@@tards are now being charged for illegally dumping raw sewage into the Athabasca River for years.:mad2: Anybody want to stick up for the oilsand projects again?

Got a link??

[blackpheasant]

Who said ?

[MrDave]

Its all over the news tonight on global. It was also in the Sun.
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090312/edm_suncor_090312/20090312/?hub=EdmontonHome

[Jester]

Suncor is scheduled to make a court appearance next month in Fort McMurray.



I say innocent until proven guilty.

[catnthehat]

The b@@tards are now being charged for illegally dumping raw sewage into the Athabasca River for years.:mad2: Anybody want to stick up for the oilsand projects again?
I think there are some facts screwed up here.
In the link it mentions the duck thing, which is Syncrude not suncor.
also, I listen to the CBC on our truck radio at work and it did not say raw sewage, and it didn't say Suncor.
It apparantly was a camp on the Suncor property, which although leaves Suncor guilty as they are responsible for their contractors, it was not Suncor themselves.
I am waiting in great anticipation to find out just what is going on there myself!
Cat

[blackpheasant]

As a side note: Victoria B.C. has been dumping raw sewage into the ocean for 80 year's...

[rugatika]

The CBC has been pumping out raw sewage for years.

Frankly I would be surprised if a large company like Suncor was trying to pull that crap. I tend to agree with one of the other posters that it was likely one of their contractors.

On a side note, I once saw a deer pump raw sewage into a stream. Damn wildlife screwing with Mother Nature.

[gunslinger]

The CBC has been pumping out raw sewage for years.

Frankly I would be surprised if a large company like Suncor was trying to pull that crap. I tend to agree with one of the other posters that it was likely one of their contractors.

On a side note, I once saw a deer pump raw sewage into a stream. Damn wildlife screwing with Mother Nature.


lol :lol: :lol::lol: i too have seen that rugatika

[Matt L.]

And people get pi$$ed off when cattle do it :rolleye2:.

And yes, why the big stink about the oilsands and sewage when our coastal cities have been doing it for decades?

[Copidosoma]

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Canada/1110911.html

Pollution charges against Suncor, contractors kept quiet

By The Canadian Press
Thu. Mar 12 - 4:46 AM

FORT MCMURRAY, Alta. — A major oilsands player in Alberta is facing pollution charges that were laid more than a year ago and some are wondering if Premier Ed Stelmach’s Tory government kept the matter quiet because of an election campaign.

Suncor Energy and two of its contractors were charged in February of last year, shortly before the March 3 provincial election, with dumping dirty wastewater from two northern work camps into the Athabasca River.

But the government made no announcement about the charges and the closest downstream community appears to have been kept in the dark about human wastes being dumped in the river.

"Did the government hide this information from Albertans because an election was coming?" asked Liberal Leader David Swann. "Did they not consider the public’s right to know?"

Environment Minister Rob Renner said he was briefed a year ago about the charges and simply assumed that a news release had been issued.

"I wasn’t aware that it was a secret," Renner told reporters Wednesday. "I certainly was aware of it."

The minister explained he felt the information became public once charges were laid, even though provincial court records are not published and are only released for a fee.

"I was under the impression that since it was before the courts, everyone else had the same level of knowledge," he said.

But Renner also conceded that the crux of the case is the requirement that communities be alerted if some kind of pollution threatens people’s health.

"There is an obligation on the part of an operator to let downstream folks know," said the minister.

Stelmach was forced to respond to the issue in the legislature Wednesday and conceded that sewage had been dumped into the river for several years before the problem was uncovered.

"What went into the river was crap," the premier said bluntly. "These are sewage lagoons."

Stelmach told the assembly that anyone who abuses environmental laws in Alberta will be charged "and brought to justice."

Suncor spokesman Brad Bellows said steps were taken to inform downstream communities.

But he also said the sewage likely had very little impact on water quality in the river because the Athabasca is a very high volume river and the amount of sewage that entered the water was "relatively small."

[Copidosoma]

And people get pi$$ed off when cattle do it :rolleye2:.

And yes, why the big stink about the oilsands and sewage when our coastal cities have been doing it for decades?

2 wrongs don't make a right;)

[Matt L.]

Never said they do lol! Cattle do drop a helluva lot more raw sewage than deer. I guess I'm just annoyed with everybody ragging on the oilsands and completely ignoring the thousands of other enviromental problems.

BTW, did anyone see the write-up in the Edmonton Journal the other day about that supposedly three-jawed fish that was found in the Athabasca? It was sent to a UofA biologist. Turns out it's naturally occuring, and that "jaw" was actually it's tongue.

[Copidosoma]

Never said they do lol! Cattle do drop a helluva lot more raw sewage than deer. I guess I'm just annoyed with everybody ragging on the oilsands and completely ignoring the thousands of other enviromental problems.

BTW, did anyone see the write-up in the Edmonton Journal the other day about that supposedly three-jawed fish that was found in the Athabasca? It was sent to a UofA biologist. Turns out it's naturally occuring, and that "jaw" was actually it's tongue.

I understand your point and agree to a certain extent. However I think the pressure should be put on cattle owners AND oil and gas companies (and everyone else out there who is dumping waste into the environment) to clean up their act.

Since the brilliant plan of self enforcing was put into effect there wasn't much incentive to pay attention to environmental issues in any industry (OK, maybe that is a bit of a stretch).

[Matt L.]

The problem with cattle producers is you can't just tell them to fence off their streams or else. 90% of them simply can't afford it. You need to offer them incentives to do it. There are initiatives out there doing this, but more is needed. As for the rest of the commercial world, I don't know what it'll take. Maybe reducing their water supply equal to the amount they pollute would get some action?

[catnthehat]

This is stuff that is being rehashed from a YEAR ago!!
Heck , I though it was something NEW!!
What I can't figure out is why would the contractor dump raw sewage when they have sewage lagoons?:confused:
Cat

[ICE HOLE]

As a side note: Victoria B.C. has been dumping raw sewage into the ocean for 80 year's...

Well that makes it Okay then.

[Echo-Gecko]

We should do somthing about the fish too, they p**p in the water and even have sex in it. :-)

[Jamie]

Do guys all remember the 2 mouthed fish they caught up there???

Well the rest of the story is that it was not a second jaw.. But in fact the fish had decomposed and the tounge fell down.

Boy that didnt make front page news....

Jamie

[MrDave]

Something that seems strange about some of the people that post on this forum. We all are relying on the environment for our recreation and for some of us, our meat; yet many seem to think that an excuse for polluting is okay. To me the treatment of our lands and waters should be something we agree on not argue about. We all see the mess that a few pigs make of our lakes. yet when a prime contractor such as Suncor pollutes some feel its not a big deal. If this polluting was only happening as an accident then fine. But I am willing to bet that there are way more stories to come about, and this I can say from 20 years experience working in the patch. Been told to keep quiet way to often to understand people down playing it. Bury this there; wait till dark and light the flair pit so no one sees it. I have been disgusted with the overall polluting that I have seen go on, and think it is time to punish the companies.

[Copidosoma]

Something that seems strange about some of the people that post on this forum. We all are relying on the environment for our recreation and for some of us, our meat; yet many seem to think that an excuse for polluting is okay. To me the treatment of our lands and waters should be something we agree on not argue about. We all see the mess that a few pigs make of our lakes. yet when a prime contractor such as Suncor pollutes some feel its not a big deal. If this polluting was only happening as an accident then fine. But I am willing to bet that there are way more stories to come about, and this I can say from 20 years experience working in the patch. Been told to keep quiet way to often to understand people down playing it. Bury this there; wait till dark and light the flair pit so no one sees it. I have been disgusted with the overall polluting that I have seen go on, and think it is time to punish the companies.

But Dave...Think about all the jobs...:cry:

[catnthehat]

Something that seems strange about some of the people that post on this forum. We all are relying on the environment for our recreation and for some of us, our meat; yet many seem to think that an excuse for polluting is okay. To me the treatment of our lands and waters should be something we agree on not argue about. We all see the mess that a few pigs make of our lakes. yet when a prime contractor such as Suncor pollutes some feel its not a big deal. If this polluting was only happening as an accident then fine. But I am willing to bet that there are way more stories to come about, and this I can say from 20 years experience working in the patch. Been told to keep quiet way to often to understand people down playing it. Bury this there; wait till dark and light the flair pit so no one sees it. I have been disgusted with the overall polluting that I have seen go on, and think it is time to punish the companies.
Like I stated before, I'm going to wait until the court decision on this YEAR
OLD case is settled.
This is old news, not new, and we dod not know the facts we are only speculating.
The town of Athabasca BTW, and likely Ft. Mcmurray as well have overflow systems that dump into the river,the oil companies are not the only poluters around.

Cat

[Donny Bear]

The CBC has been pumping out raw sewage for years.

Frankly I would be surprised if a large company like Suncor was trying to pull that crap. I tend to agree with one of the other posters that it was likely one of their contractors.

On a side note, I once saw a deer pump raw sewage into a stream. Damn wildlife screwing with Mother Nature.

No S--T I had to laugh when I saw someone at the top of this thread who believes the media :lol::lol::lol: who would believe the media.

[dubbya]

Cattle ranchers are getting on-line with EFP, environmental farm plans. The thing with the EFP program is that it is costly and will take some time. As well, they are encouraged to police each other, which never works. Saskatchewan water shed authority is in the process of implementing strict borders for grazing near rivers and streams, we're talking no grazing within a kilometre. If this goes through, there will be alot of farmers/ranchers in trouble.

[lavigne25]

i work at syncrude , yesterday i was doing a job in one of the pumphouse is where they pump water out from the athabasca river ,there are theses mesh screens that come up verticaly to filter out the fish from the water and there was a huge pike dead that i could see under the grating .Its funny cause thursday inviromental canada came inside to check the place out and they where taking pictures around the building and inside but they never seen the the dead pike lol .I dont think it hurts the fish very often its just so they dont go through the processing system

[lavigne25]

i hope i dont loose my job for giving out this information lol

[hal53]

Something that seems strange about some of the people that post on this forum. We all are relying on the environment for our recreation and for some of us, our meat; yet many seem to think that an excuse for polluting is okay. To me the treatment of our lands and waters should be something we agree on not argue about. We all see the mess that a few pigs make of our lakes. yet when a prime contractor such as Suncor pollutes some feel its not a big deal. If this polluting was only happening as an accident then fine. But I am willing to bet that there are way more stories to come about, and this I can say from 20 years experience working in the patch. Been told to keep quiet way to often to understand people down playing it. Bury this there; wait till dark and light the flair pit so no one sees it. I have been disgusted with the overall polluting that I have seen go on, and think it is time to punish the companies.
bury this here?????....wait till dark to light the flare pit??????....your Dad must have told you these stories.....cause IT DON"T HAPPEN MAN!!!!!!!!!!....at least not in the 20 yrs. you've been invovled, I will agree some questionable conduct years ago..but the patch is probably one of the most environmentally concerned industries going......"not one drop spilt"...is the mantra

[MeandmySon]

Anyone who does not think this is outrageous they are damn fools. The Oilsands COMPANIES (EVERYLAST ONE, DOESNT MATTER WHO) Have been raping and pillaging Alberta and when they are done, we are all gonna be left with one hell of a mess. They are gonna leave and we will be the ones to clean it up with OUR TAXPAYERS money, health and destruction of wildlife, while all those hot shots sit in their mansions puffing huge cigars and laughing with not a bit of guilt. And if noone believes this, they are suffering from major denial. Yeah we all get a weekly paycheque when all is said and done, but at what cost??? Time to FIGHT BACK!!!

[catnthehat]

Anyone who does not think this is outrageous they are damn fools. The Oilsands COMPANIES (EVERYLAST ONE, DOESNT MATTER WHO) Have been raping and pillaging Alberta and when they are done, we are all gonna be left with one hell of a mess. They are gonna leave and we will be the ones to clean it up with OUR TAXPAYERS money, health and destruction of wildlife, while all those hot shots sit in their mansions puffing huge cigars and laughing with not a bit of guilt. And if noone believes this, they are suffering from major denial. Yeah we all get a weekly paycheque when all is said and done, but at what cost??? Time to FIGHT BACK!!!
SIMPLE FIX - refuse to build the plants, refuse to maintain them, and refuse to use their products.

Yup, simple fix, not easy, but simple.
WE ARE THE CONSUMERS here, and we also work these places, so WE are as guilty!

Don't think for a second that when someone does something questionable, be it in the patch or elsewhere, that there is some big shot doing it.
it is the little guys like us that are doing the deed, not some faceless big shot in an office.

Cat

[hal53]

Anyone who does not think this is outrageous they are damn fools. The Oilsands COMPANIES (EVERYLAST ONE, DOESNT MATTER WHO) Have been raping and pillaging Alberta and when they are done, we are all gonna be left with one hell of a mess. They are gonna leave and we will be the ones to clean it up with OUR TAXPAYERS money, health and destruction of wildlife, while all those hot shots sit in their mansions puffing huge cigars and laughing with not a bit of guilt. And if noone believes this, they are suffering from major denial. Yeah we all get a weekly paycheque when all is said and done, but at what cost??? Time to FIGHT BACK!!!
enjoy your stay in Alberta....also let me know when you need a ride to the bus depot, glad to oblige... have u ever been there????....have you seen any reclamation??????.....they are cleaning up oil that some neutral observers have called "mother natures" oil spill.... 200 years ago, it was being scooped by hand off the banks of the Athabasca river!!!!...to be used for canoes.....give me a friggin' break!!!!!!!

[sparky660]

Wow hal you have no idea what goes on. The oil that is in question is refined, that is the real issue. The tailings pond is what is left over from the process and it has by-products that are known to cause cancer and pollute. The oil oozing out of the ground is not the problem.

[hal53]

???????????????????????????????????????....where is it "refined" at?????????

[hal53]

so?????...the tailings ponds receive the washed effluent from the sand/bitumen....the same carcinogens there are what you're putting in your fuel tank everyday.. don't want this to get into how it always does here,,,,,but if you don't know what you're talking about....please remember why God gave you 2 ears and only 1 mouth......

[Walleyes]

Anyone who does not think this is outrageous they are damn fools. The Oilsands COMPANIES (EVERYLAST ONE, DOESNT MATTER WHO) Have been raping and pillaging Alberta and when they are done, we are all gonna be left with one hell of a mess. They are gonna leave and we will be the ones to clean it up with OUR TAXPAYERS money, health and destruction of wildlife, while all those hot shots sit in their mansions puffing huge cigars and laughing with not a bit of guilt. And if noone believes this, they are suffering from major denial. Yeah we all get a weekly paycheque when all is said and done, but at what cost??? Time to FIGHT BACK!!!



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I think someone watches wayyyyy to much television.. Sitting in mansions smokin big cigars and laughing,, wasn't that on a Dallas episode a few years back lololo..

You know some people just don't have a clue and I for one am sick and tired of trying to explain it to them. I have just run out of patients with these closed minded individuals.. Just pathetic..

[Bighorn madness]

[QUOTE=Walleyes
You know some people just don't have a clue and I for one am sick and tired of trying to explain it to them. I have just run out of patients with these closed minded individuals.. Just pathetic..[/QUOTE]Whats pathetic is your statement shutting off other indivdual's point of view even if they dont understand .

[blackpheasant]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I think someone watches wayyyyy to much television.. Sitting in mansions smokin big cigars and laughing,, wasn't that on a Dallas episode a few years back lololo..

You know some people just don't have a clue and I for one am sick and tired of trying to explain it to them. I have just run out of patients with these closed minded individuals.. Just pathetic..

X2 Wally, I have worked on the Production side in the field since 1979, 20-30 year's ago we lit off many an oil filled flare pit, we had spill's and we flared at will, there were no enviro bin's then, it was wrong but we didn't know any better. That was then and this is now, Alberta doesn't allow this stuff anymore, if I spill even a gallon of oil on a location it get's cleaned up right now, if you have an unreported spill or flare occurance your A** is on the line personally, ERCB enforcement work's now, if you are an oil company and are a repeat offender you will pay and they have the authority to shut you down, and this is good, the industry has cleaned itself up big time over the year's, to the people that don't know, Alberta actually lead's most of the oil and gas producing region's around the world for it's good policy and practice when dealing with the enviroment...:innocent:

[roughneckin]

bury this here?????....wait till dark to light the flare pit??????....your Dad must have told you these stories.....cause IT DON"T HAPPEN MAN!!!!!!!!!!....at least not in the 20 yrs. you've been invovled, I will agree some questionable conduct years ago..but the patch is probably one of the most environmentally concerned industries going......"not one drop spilt"...is the mantra

It might not happen as often as before, but it still happens. Especially in the north country where their is less people looking, like regulatory and landowners. I have seen sumps not mixed enough, seen pits dug in sand, cement pits that have no fluid in them anymore because it has all seeped away, flare pits burning at all hours of the night, fluid dispersion at unheard of rates. Some of this fluid is sewage, just as the OP wrote. The "not one drop split" mantra is a good one and most companies try to make that happen, but when push comes to shove some are willing to ward off some laws to save some cash.

[KyleM]

Just because they are apparently the leaders in environmental concern dosnt mean its good for the environment. Im aware that the technology is being worked on and things are getting better month to month out there but dont kid yourselves, its still not good.

Why give props to these companies for trying to clean up their act? Its their flippin duty to do so.

I guess all the inflated cases of cancer along the river system is just big CBC BS aswell? Give me a break.

We all use the product, Im aware. What Im saying is that we will need clean fresh water for a lot longer then we're going to need the black stuff comming out of the ground.

[KyleM]

Oh, and give me a break "farmers cant afford it"

They cant afford a zap wire along a buffer zone on the streams/rivers?

Ontario has been doing this for years and it wasnt expensive at all.
Let a 20 foot buffer zone of long grass grow on the shores and it filters out, thats not that difficult.

[sparky660]

so?????...the tailings ponds receive the washed effluent from the sand/bitumen....the same carcinogens there are what you're putting in your fuel tank everyday.. don't want this to get into how it always does here,,,,,but if you don't know what you're talking about....please remember why God gave you 2 ears and only 1 mouth......

So just because we burn it in our vehicles it is ethical to let the effluent leach into the Athabasca River? We can extract the oil by SAGD but because we burn it in our vehicle we can savage the earth because open pit mining is more economical. Anyone with half a clue can see the reclaimed land is nothing like the old growth forest. I've been there and seen what they are doing and it doesn't take a biologist to see what is really going on. Maybe I am missing what you are getting at Hal but I feel that you think two wrongs make a rite.

[Matt L.]

Of course the reclamation doesn't look like the old growth forest. What the hell do you think OLD growth is?!? Give it 50-60 yrs. and then it'll be old growth. As people have said, reclamation takes time.

[sparky660]

50-60 years is being optimistic. Some studies claim that it will take over a century to get back to its original state and even then muskeg holes and bodies of water will still need longer yet. Even then I doubt it will be as good as it was as these forests have been around for centuries and it is niaeve to think 50-60 years will make things all better.

[Matt L.]

Cattle ranchers are getting on-line with EFP, environmental farm plans. The thing with the EFP program is that it is costly and will take some time. As well, they are encouraged to police each other, which never works. Saskatchewan water shed authority is in the process of implementing strict borders for grazing near rivers and streams, we're talking no grazing within a kilometre. If this goes through, there will be alot of farmers/ranchers in trouble.

A KILOMETRE? Holy *****, only the big ranches would be able to swallow that! That would be half or more of the smaller guys range.:mad3: That is definite overkill. I seriously hope that is an exagerration (not accusing you dubbya). Could you tell me your source for that? I'd like to find out more.

[Jester]

Don't you guys know that the Atha-B is sparkling clean and pristine until it passes Fort Mac?

[Matt L.]

Don't you guys know that the Atha-B is sparkling clean and pristine until it passes Fort Mac?

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I'm fed up with all the attention paid to the oilsands while other just as serious, if not more so, enviromental damage goes virtually unmentioned

[MrDave]

bury this here?????....wait till dark to light the flare pit??????....your Dad must have told you these stories.....cause IT DON"T HAPPEN MAN!!!!!!!!!!....at least not in the 20 yrs. you've been invovled, I will agree some questionable conduct years ago..but the patch is probably one of the most environmentally concerned industries going......"not one drop spilt"...is the mantra

I have been in the patch since I got out of school in the 80's "dude". If you think im bullsh**ing you that is your problem not mine. I have seen so much sh@@ that I don't even find your statements funny. I know where contaminated soil was buried within 3 mile of a large town. Seen the sky light up from lighting a slick on a hillside North of some of everybodies favorite whitefish lake. You,my man, are a fool if you think I am lying and I don't care if you are gonna call me a liar.

[deanmc]

O goody another "intelligent" debate.:rolleye2:

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

I say innocent until proven guilty.

this is canada where you are guilty until you proove yerself innocent
unless you are a polatician or major corparation
i say take all major corparations and banks and polaticians off the welfare line and any automobiles that are sold in canada should have an asembly plant here in canada eg kia toyota nissan

[Sporty]

We all use the product, Im aware. What Im saying is that we will need clean fresh water for a lot longer then we're going to need the black stuff comming out of the ground.

ICAM, fresh water in the future is going to be a hotter commodity than oil has ever been, we can live without oil, can't live without fresh water.

[sparky660]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I'm fed up with all the attention paid to the oilsands while other just as serious, if not more so, enviromental damage goes virtually unmentioned

I agree. The forestry service probably does as much damage, if not more, to the Athabasca River. The problem is that the oil companies have always been labeled as dirty money and the primary focus of enviro groups. The biggest thing that makes it hard to defend is the concentration of damage over such a huge area. I would bet that the deforestation has caused as much if not more damage but it isn't as concentrated and harder to get a singular picture of damage than the oil sands. You get a nice pic of the tailing ponds and in the background you have huge vasts of baren land and a nice huge pile of sulfur to top it all off.


I guess though I might be a bit of a hypocrite as I work for an oilfield company. I have even applied for jobs at Suncor and Syncrude and if the offer was lucrative enough I might even take a job up there. I don't like what they are doing but I feel that it is a necessary evil.

[sparky660]

ICAM, fresh water in the future is going to be a hotter commodity than oil has ever been, we can live without oil, can't live without fresh water.

I would argue this point. How many people would survive without power, heat transportation and food. All those things are easily available because of fossil fuels. I would bet that at this time of year (winter) if all fossil fuels were cut off to society that 90% of the Canadian population would be dead by spring. Society has become so dependant on it that it would take decades to wein ourselves from it.

[Sporty]

It would be hard to adjust but people are resourceful and would find a way tough as it would be but it isn't necessarily life or death. People would have to go back to the way our grand parents lived, wood heat, lanterns etc. Yea it would suck and be inconvenient but fresh clean water cannot be manufactured, without water there is no life. We'd have to start riding our bikes and we wouldn't have food without water. Technology has made our lives more convenient but people have lived on this planet for thousands of years without it/

Fresh water humanity's most vital natural resource, it is the essential basis of life and as our populations increase the demand for water becomes greater. Already places such as California and other "desert" communities are hurting for fresh water, we don't notice it because we are lucky here but wars could start in the future for fresh water because life cannot be sustained without it.

[sparky660]

I agree that water is more vital than fossil fuels. That wasn't the real purpose of my post. My post is more to do with our dependance on fossil fuels.
Yes, our grandparents lived like that, the problem being is that we don't and little has been passed down and what was has has been forgotten. We may have lived here for thousands of years but with little to no knowledge you wouldn't survive 7 days. I still stand by my 90% dead by spring. There are very few people that are capable of surviving by living off the land without our current luxuries. It would be to large of a learning curve. Survival skills are not taught over night.

[Bushrat]

Yes, our grandparents lived like that, the problem being is that we don't and little has been passed down and what was has has been forgotten. We may have lived here for thousands of years but with little to no knowledge you wouldn't survive 7 days. I still stand by my 90% dead by spring. There are very few people that are capable of surviving by living off the land without our current luxuries. It would be to large of a learning curve. Survival skills are not taught over night.


Life in the frontier days when there were only a hundred thousand or so settlers in the province there was enough to go around to survive by living off the land. Nowadays with 3 and a half million people in Alberta, the couple hundred thousand or so deer, moose, elk etc., would be gone and consumed in a couple weeks, the lakes and rivers would be fished/netted to extinction in a summer, A million homes at the size they are now would have our forests gone in no time heating them with wood, the pollution from that alone would be astronomical.

Sure a few folks could live off the land right now but the whole of todays population trying to live off the land would be disasterous., after a while the only folks alive and healthy would be cannibals.

[catnthehat]

Life in the frontier days when there were only a hundred thousand or so settlers in the province there was enough to go around to survive by living off the land. Nowadays with 3 and a half million people in Alberta, the couple hundred thousand or so deer, moose, elk etc., would be gone and consumed in a couple weeks, the lakes and rivers would be fished/netted to extinction in a summer, A million homes at the size they are now would have our forests gone in no time heating them with wood, the pollution from that alone would be astronomical.

Sure a few folks could live off the land right now but the whole of todays population trying to live off the land would be disasterous., after a while the only folks alive and healthy would be cannibals.
I was flipping through an old magazine at work - Stuff, or Maxxim, somehting like that.
there was a comment made which made me laugh out loud.
" when the apocylips comes, the only living thins left after will be cockroaches and Keith Richards!!:lol::lol:
Cat

[eric2381]

I've worked in the patch long enough to know better. I think the reason that there is so much discussion about the oilsands is the vast number of people imported from other parts of the country to work there. They bring with them the Liberal attitude of the east.

I AM NOT TRYING TO START A FIGHT WITH ANYBODY, JUST MY OWN OPINION.

[MountainTi]

We can extract the oil by SAGD but because we burn it in our vehicle we can savage the earth because open pit mining is more economical. .

Ever been north of Ft. Mac? The McMurray formation ranges from 2m to approx 80m deep., with the devonian anywhere from 80m to 130m. SAGD works well when extracting heavy oil from depths much deeper than that, but can you imagine pumping that much steam at depths as shallow as what it would take up there? Wouldn't be a tree or any vegetaion left anywhere's in the vicintiy. Would resemble "old faithful" everywhere you looked. :lol: