Fish Harvesting Regulation Question

[millsboy79]

Been looking through the regs again and wondering about the retention restrictions.

Mainly I am wondering why most of the restrictions for size say they have to be over a certain size to be retained.

It seems to be that those are the fish we should be protecting. They would be the real "reproducers".

I just know from what I read; in hunting terms if you are trying to protect the stock numbers you are better off taking a calf than a full grown female. I would think the same would apply to fish. Not that you can tell the sex but at least the age by its relative size.

Anyways that's my 2 cents and I was hoping someone could explain the reasoning because I would rather catch a trophy twice than eat it once.

Thanks

[Red Bullets]

Just thinking... it is a conundrum. One logic would suggest that if the reproducers are not harvested the lake will have too many offspring being produced and the size of the fish in the lake will stunt. Another logic would say that if we harvest the young fish, the breeders will get old and production of offspring will lessen. I think this is why they have different slot sizes on lakes of concern. To ensure a better balanced population of all ages of fish and fisheries don't become depleted.

Just my 2 cents.

[RavYak]

Alberta is one of the only places that I know of that actually requires fisherman to keep the larger fish and throw the smaller ones back.

I think the idea behind this is to keep the number of fish available high but it also unfortunately means that lakes with these regs will have very few trophy fish. I think AEP's idea of healthy # of fish population is way too high because when you read their reports on some lakes that are imo polluted with fish they still seem to think it should be better... I personally would prefer to catch half as many fish but higher quality then large amounts of pathetic fish.

A slot limit seems to make the most sense in a lot of ways but it also requires a close eye and management to make sure the populations remain in a healthy balance.

[millsboy79]

Plus you then get genetic selection for smaller fish, so populations get smaller sized over time because the larger ones are harvested out and their genes don't get to reproduce.

This is what I was thinking ... especially when you are talking about a fish that take a long long time to get to a "trophy" size, like pike. Although with pike there are some lakes that say over 63 but under 100. Which is what I really think they should do with trout as well.

Same thing with a lot of hunters, they want the big racks and if you take all the big guys then they are not around anymore to pass on their genes to the next years and eventually there will be no perfect racks left.

[Bemoredog]

This is what I was thinking ... especially when you are talking about a fish that take a long long time to get to a "trophy" size, like pike. Although with pike there are some lakes that say over 63 but under 100. Which is what I really think they should do with trout as well.

Same thing with a lot of hunters, they want the big racks and if you take all the big guys then they are not around anymore to pass on their genes to the next years and eventually there will be no perfect racks left.

Interesting article touching on this discussion: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140102112241.htm

Their recommendation is to toss minimum sizes and adopt slot sizing.

From the article:

Big is sexy

Even fin-wearing underwater residents prefer large lovers in their world. That is hardly surprising. Several recent studies, including work in the laboratory of Prof. Arlinghaus, have shown that larger fish not only produce disproportionately more eggs, but also larger eggs, which in turn results in offspring that is more resistant. In contrast to many mammals and to us humans, fish grow all their life and invest in reproduction well into old age. "From an ecological point of view it is better if a fish population consists of different size and age classes. This diversity in age pays off. Oftentimes, fish of various sizes and ages reproduce at different times," explains Arlinghaus. "If events in the environment destroy the eggs of a specific timeframe, the population can still guarantee the offspring and thus contribute to more stable stocks."

[last minute]

I wouldn't worry about trophy's i would rather eat a fish :) Just my two cents

[67ZL1]

I mentioned this last year on here and a bunch of guys jumped all over me for even mentioning a slot size. What makes Alberta's biologists smarter than others in North America? Slot sizes help in balancing the fish population and it has been proven numerous times the last 30 years. I for one preach to my kids and nieces about selective harvesting. Let the big ones go and keep the little guys.

[millsboy79]

I wouldn't worry about trophy's i would rather eat a fish :) Just my two cents
So what size do you keep?

[mickeyjim]

Alberta is really trying to break the mold with their fisheries management. Nothing they do is similar to what other provinces or states do.

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[huntsfurfish]

Alberta is really trying to break the mold with their fisheries management. Nothing they do is similar to what other provinces or states do.

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Thats because Alberta is not similar to any other province or state in regards to water bodies that they get compared to!

[mickeyjim]

Thats because Alberta is not similar to any other province or state in regards to water bodies that they get compared to!
Except for north and south Dakota, Montana and southern and central Saskatchewan

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[huntsfurfish]

I mentioned this last year on here and a bunch of guys jumped all over me for even mentioning a slot size. What makes Alberta's biologists smarter than others in North America? Slot sizes help in balancing the fish population and it has been proven numerous times the last 30 years. I for one preach to my kids and nieces about selective harvesting. Let the big ones go and keep the little guys.

Not necessarily smarter. But they probably realize unlike some, that we have a lot less water with high fishing pressures along with small budgets(slots would need excessive monitoring with the small amounts of water in AB to insure against collapsed fishing)

I am a C&R fisherman for the most part. But I believe as much should be done as possible to allow harvest for those that should want to eat fish.

Not sure what makes you smarter than Alberta Bios.:);)

PS Sorry for jumping all over you again.:lol:

[huntsfurfish]

Except for north and south Dakota, Montana and southern and central Saskatchewan

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?

[mickeyjim]

Don't feel like getting into this again. Just go have a look at how these other jurisdictions run their respective fisheries

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[idaman]

Don't feel like getting into this again. Just go have a look at how these other jurisdictions run their respective fisheries

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Don't know about those states, but your dead wrong about the Saskatchewan part...

[fluxcore]

Cold lake needs a slot size so the big boys can get bigger and reproduce. You have to sort through 50 lakers for one keeper!

[Vook]

I guess it is more about psychology than biology. Usually more experienced fishermen catch bigger fish and they are usually more C&R than beginners. If we could allow small fish to be harvested it would be way more pressure to fish population.

[huntsfurfish]

Except for north and south Dakota, Montana and southern and central Saskatchewan

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Not sure how they would qualify as an exception. North and South Dakota population combined about 1.5 million. Water bodies - Missouri River Impoundments, Lake Sakakawea and Lake Oahe, Lake Francis Case Plus Devils lake and others. Montana has a population of about 1 million as well and has Fort Peck Reservoir on the Missouri. All of which are at a lower latitude.

Saskatchewans population about 1 million as well. With 6000 water bodies compared to our 600.

Ya, they are just like us.:)

[RavYak]

Don't know about those states, but your dead wrong about the Saskatchewan part...

Saskatchewans population about 1 million as well. With 6000 water bodies compared to our 600.

Ya, they are just like us.:)

Yeah and how many of those 6000 water bodies are within close proximity to the population?

You guys should try living and fishing in south/central SK. You might realise it is not very different at all... Minimal lake choices and most with mediocre fishing.

They have less population but there are lots of anglers on many of those lakes and with the much higher limits many of these lakes see more pressure on the fish stocks then many of our AB lakes do. That is also why SK has to stock a large portion of these lakes with walleye every year.

But go ahead and just keep thinking SK is all big awesome fishing lakes... I guess it is if you are willing to drive 3-8 hours to get to them every time you want to go fishing...

[mickeyjim]

Why does it always turn into a population vs amount of lakes thing? If anything that should mean we have more cash to throw at fewer lakes. Advantage?

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[mickeyjim]

Yeah and how many of those 6000 water bodies are within close proximity to the population?

You guys should try living and fishing in south/central SK. You might realise it is not very different at all... Minimal lake choices and most with mediocre fishing.

They have less population but there are lots of anglers on many of those lakes and with the much higher limits many of these lakes see more pressure on the fish stocks then many of our AB lakes do. That is also why SK has to stock a large portion of these lakes with walleye every year.

But go ahead and just keep thinking SK is all big awesome fishing lakes... I guess it is if you are willing to drive 3-8 hours to get to them every time you want to go fishing...
You are bang on man. Except the quality of the fisheries is better, in my opinion

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[Bemoredog]

Sask lakes are also generally more productive because they have a better forage base than your average Alberta lake. i.e., food is more plentiful.

Obviously there are a number of factors at play here beyond just population and number of lakes. Although, Regina and Saskatoon, the main population centres, are still dwarfed by the populations of Calgary and Edmonton.

[huntsfurfish]

Why does it always turn into a population vs amount of lakes thing? If anything that should mean we have more cash to throw at fewer lakes. Advantage?

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see post 13, not just pop/water. Budget does play a part.

But it really comes down to pop/water.

If I have 2 lakes and you have 20 lakes............ and I have 2000 guys fishing and you have 200 guys fishing......

K, its not a real good example, sorry.

[Talking moose]

I have 2 lots in central sask, 40 fishable lakes within an hours drive.

[RavYak]

You are bang on man. Except the quality of the fisheries is better, in my opinion

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In some cases they are better out there but there are also lots of lakes that don't have as good of fishing. Most AB guys only go to the good lakes, there are lots of mediocre ones too.

Some people really underrate our fishing here in AB, we have awesome fishing you just can't keep a lot of them though.

I have had this same argument with AB kayak fishermen(although more specifically they think we can't compete with Ontario guys or US guys). I will let you guys be the judge, I like to think I am doing a good job of proving those naysayers wrong this year...

http://www.kayakwars.com/standings-usa-currentseason.php

That is the standings from an online world wide kayak tournament with over 700 other anglers...

But go ahead and keep thinking AB fishing sucks, in fact please stay home and leave all the awesome fishing for me lol.

[67ZL1]

Why does it always turn into a population vs amount of lakes thing? If anything that should mean we have more cash to throw at fewer lakes. Advantage?

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If the money raised from fishing/hunting liscences were to go into SRD's bank account things would be different. But instead the government takes the money raised and puts some of it towards other pet projects.

[huntsfurfish]

In some cases they are better out there but there are also lots of lakes that don't have as good of fishing. Most AB guys only go to the good lakes, there are lots of mediocre ones too.

Some people really underrate our fishing here in AB, we have some awesome fishing you just can't keep a lot of them though.

I have had this same argument with AB kayak fishermen(although more specifically they think we can't compete with Ontario guys or US guys). I will let you guys be the judge, I like to think I am doing a good job of proving those naysayers wrong this year...

http://www.kayakwars.com/standings-usa-currentseason.php

That is the standings from an online world wide kayak tournament with over 700 other anglers...

But go ahead and keep thinking AB fishing sucks, in fact please stay home and leave all the awesome fishing for me lol.

I can agree with that(bolded).

[huntsfurfish]

I have 2 lots in central sask, 40 fishable lakes within an hours drive.

That sounds pretty awesome!

[huntsfurfish]

If the money raised from fishing/hunting liscences were to go into SRD's bank account things would be different. But instead the government takes the money raised and puts some of it towards other pet projects.

Maybe the new Government will be better and increase the budget, but now with the downturn it will likely be quite some time for changes there.

[Talking moose]

That sounds pretty awesome!

North of me is the Hanson lake road and narrow hills provincial park. Candle lake on the west side and Tobin on the east. It is Awsome!

[RavYak]

North of me is the Hanson lake road and narrow hills provincial park. Candle lake on the west side and Tobin on the east. It is Awsome!

And 90-95% of the population lives multiple hours away from there. Using that as an example of SK fishing is like using the Lakeland area as an example of AB fishing.

How many fishable lakes are within an hour of Saskatoon or Regina where the people actually live?

[mickeyjim]

Bout the same amount as Edmonton or Calgary. Maybe a couple more

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[Talking moose]

And 90-95% of the population lives multiple hours away from there. Using that as an example of SK fishing is like using the Lakeland area as an example of AB fishing.

How many fishable lakes are within an hour of Saskatoon or Regina where the people actually live?

What you quoted was myself telling someone where my lots were. We've all seen a map of saskabush eh?

[huntsfurfish]

North of me is the Hanson lake road and narrow hills provincial park. Candle lake on the west side and Tobin on the east. It is Awsome!

Fished Tobin a couple of times. Note to self: try not to let the jealousy to Talking moose show.