no hunting allowed in wildland parks for baiting bears

[bonner222]

about 5 yeasr ago i used to bait bear in the lac la biche wildland park north and east of athabasca along hwy63 and then commuinty development decided to begin restricting access for hunting. Now from my undersatnding as per the ab hunting regs it clearly states that you are allowed to hunt within a wildland paark. So i phoned the local officials on the parks side to get some further explanation on the matter, and they went on to tell me that guide/outfitters are allowed to enter and bait for bears in the wildland park, but no residents are allowed. Whay the @#%$ is up with that. A local tax paying citizen can't enter and hunt in a wildland park but yet Parks and Protected Areas allows non res-aliens to come in and hunt where we are not allowed!! I think that is hogwash. Further, i pose the question, lets say i decide to not listen to the parks officer and go hunt in there, what can he do about. If the wildlife act and wildlife regs state that a resident can hunt in a wildland park without providing any further expalnation as per specific parks etc, then what....is he going to charge me with feeding wildlife in a park?? I am curious if anyone else has experienced similar occcurence or are of the same opinion as i.
Regardless, i think i might be the one to tep up to the plate and see what happens. Although i think this would make for an interesting read within the the next issue of the ab outdoorsmen, th topic of "Denied access to hunt bears within Wildland parks for residents of Alberta".

[Watching you]

So i phoned the local officials on the parks side to get some further explanation on the matter, and they went on to tell me that guide/outfitters are allowed to enter and bait for bears in the wildland park, but no residents are allowed. Whay the @#%$ is up with that.Something up with that maybe a few pockets are getting greased.

If the wildlife act and wildlife regs state that a resident can hunt in a wildland park without providing any further expalnation as per specific parks etc, then what....is he going to charge me with feeding wildlife inisn't there a disclaimer in the reg's about the laws.becareful

[sheep hunter]

I cannot believe there is any way that is true. I'd call the Edmonton SRD office and Community Development office and get clarification and tell them exactly what the officer said. Residents and outfitters have to play by the same rules! It wouldn't be the first time an officer didn't know all the rules.

Try this fellow...

Empson, Deryl
Director, Enforcement-Field Services Branch, Fish and Wildlife Division
Enforcement Field Services Branch
Sustainable Resource Development
3rd fl Great West Life Building
9920 - 108 Street
Edmonton, AB
T5K 2M4

Phone: 780 422-0044
Fax: 780 422-9560
E-mail: deryl.empson@gov.ab.ca

[packhuntr]

If this claim is indeed true, why??? Makes my blood pressure climb a notch. Would only stand to reason, what with all the other crap surrounding our overpopulation of these fellas. Sorry to P.O. any outfitters, but ya, afew, or mabey more than that, bad apples, HAVE, spoiled my piece of pie. Why on earth, with all the issues surrounding our outdoors in this province, does the list not seem to be getting any smaller. Why are outdoorspeople always fighting no mind B.S. like this, when there are actual issues to be dealt with??? Oh, just wait, i think i got er figured out all by myself, is the answer,,,,,money??? Naaaa... A.P.O.S. and its following aint out to best Alberta outdoorspeople, and exploit our resource???
A side note, if true, that Sustainable Resource officer should be sent kicking rocks down the road just for saying something stupid like that, let alone believing and following through with enforcing it.

edit; p.s. Bonner 222, get at er, and keep a strain on er.

[Dark Wing 01]

If the claim is true I would set up baits any ways. when court time came I would simply explain to the judge your situation and plead not guilty.

[packhuntr]

Id set up shop at any of their baits i could find. About 3-400 yds off their baits should do the trick, whack their bears on em. There is an outfitter going around moth balling baits where i bait at. Talked to another guy, told us to watch out, this guy is a piece of work. Never did happen to us, dont know if he just couldnt find our barrels or what. Wonder if it actually works.

keep a strain on er.

[bonner222]

I called and talked to several officers from both srd fish and wildlife and to CD, and trust me it is true. The restriction lies within each parks mangement plan. There is no legislative backing to support such a restriction anywhere, not in the WA the Wildlife regs, not in PPA nor in the Special places etc. the CO, not to be confused with our Fish and Wildlife Officers, said that there is no leg backing and that they are just simply waiting fro someone to take them to court on the issue, the only problem i have, as do most of us, is that it costs money to go to court. I am hoping that with a letter to AB OUtdoorsmen and maybe one to the minister s of CD and SRD that something can get resolved. Trust me, it is true and it is happening in almost every wildland park in the north country.!!! Belive that!!

[packhuntr]

If you are not a liar, I cant submit what i think, so all i will say is wow. We NEED to get this the way Sask is running these guys. NO OUTFITTERS in the southern portions of the province, for whitetail, mule, antelope, etc. And very strictly regulated in the wetern and northern portions of the province. This is just no surprise to me at all. What next, apos getting control over tag allocations in our W.M.U's. Go A.P.O.S. hope those balls tasted good, you bastards. I cant believe my tax dollars are funding these obvious complete idiots, that made this call.>:
edit;>: >: >: >: >: >: >: >: >: >: >: >:

[Dark Wing 01]

We dont need anymore outfitters up north, these guys are like parasites.They move in set up there deer blinds and never leave.

[packhuntr]

Is this true, or a BAD late April fools joke????????

[bonner222]

i wouldn't lie about it! I have made several phone calls regarding this issue and no one could good me a specific reason as to why outfitters are allowed in but not us, something i guess that was stated within thier managemnet plan for these wildland parks. I would love to push the issue and be the one to get charged with......good question???....cause there is no charge, but i myself do not need my name brough tinto the legal sysytem. I think a more systematic approach would be to formulate a letter to the appropriate ministries and for all intecive purposes, explain my...or our concerns. The only thing with that and i am sure you all know is that nothing will ever get done. It will get to the top and will sit on someones desk and get covered up under a bunch of "other" important issues instead. I would like this to be resolved sooner then later. Heck, even if they decide no hunting at all in these wildland parks, jut make it so for everyone!!!!!!!

[Dick284]

Write the AFGA and ask them to push this issue, they have the ear of the SRD Minister Ted Morton, and if you can get proof positive that the Provincial staff are closing areas to all but a select few Albertans the fur will hit the fan.

[sheep hunter]

I just sent an e-mail to Hector Goudreau asking for some clarification. I'll post when I hear something.

[Duffy4]

I just did some searching and could not confirm what I thought about this issue.

Seems to me I heard something about Parks not wanting to allow Baiting for bears in some wildland parks. But because outfitters had been doing it traditionally and they had a voice at the planning table they got special permission to continue baiting bears in the wildland pk.

I did not quite understand from the original post, were you told you could not "bait" in the park or you could not "hunt" in the park?

Robin in Rocky

[Turney]

The AFGA has a position paper on this and has been trying to get it changed.

Go to AFGA.org and go to news section and 2006 wildland park position paper about alberta goverment contravening wildlife act.



www.afga.org/index.html?func=library (http://www.afga.org/index.html?func=library)

[bonner222]

i read the position paper on the AFGA website sited willdland parks. I agree with the letter, but within it failed to mention the concept of allowing guide/outfitters. In response to the most recent replies. I think i mentioned earlier about what was exactly said to me in regards to what activity he/she was not allowing me to do. I know that i was not allowed to go in to hunt for bears via baiting. Now wheter i could go into hunt whitetails, i'm not sure what thier postion is.

So i guess this whole issue has been circulated once already and the appropriate higher ups are aware of it, but i wonder if they know the whole story? My whole purpose behind me even posting this is the idea of fairness to all albertans. I do not really have a problem with Parks making new special places, all in attempt to preserve our landscape, but to restrict it to a select few is simply just wrong. Why should outfitters have more of a say in what is relevant or not regarding these parks then you or i should! we are all avid ethical hunters and all with the same common interest at heart. Just doesn't make sense.

My biggest fear is that nothing is ever going to get done with issue until someone has to fight it in the courts!!! And who wants to do that! I will write AFGA and submit a letter in this regard to try and bring the issue to the forefront.

[sheep hunter]

I asked Goudreau that exact question in the letter I sent...."why the inequality between residents and outfitters?" We'll see what he says. I'd suggest you fire a letter off to him and your MLA as well bonner22.

[Duffy4]

booner222

On the AF&GA site you have to go lower down and read the

"alberta goverment contravening wildlife act"

paper. It is more specific to the baiting by outfitters.

I don't say that I agree with what has been done here but I do understand how these things happen. At a planning meeting if the rep. for the outfitters pushes the idea and sells it and there is not a strong voice to oppose it then it can get accepted by the planning commity. Sometimes an AF&GA volunteer who sits on such a planning commity misses a meating for some reason or is just not forceful enough to oppose the outfitter rep. This is just a possibility of what may have happened.

Robin

[Re: Wildland]

Or maybe the AFGA representative was sympathetic to the outfitters. Has the leadership of AFGA changed? If the AFGA was not predominated in the leadership by outfitters at the time it was brought up we would not have any of this ridiculous outfitter industry garbage we have to put up with. The AFGA let us down 20 years ago and they continue to let us down.

[packhuntr]

Once again, why with all the issues, do we always have mindless garbage like this steaming to the forefront, delaying progress on the things that matter. The list of issues doesnt seem to get any smaller. In my uneducated opinion, Alberta Outdoors people do not need APOS and their outfitters help in managing Alberta's resources. We are sitting on draw for most tags in this province, and some for ALOT of years. All the while, APOS is guaranteed x number of tags, per MU, per specie. Why, when residents wait a combined approx 10 years to harvest 3 mule deer bucks, and 1.5 antelope bucks, are these guys allowed to take, { in my oppinion, from us }, 10 of each, thats 20 total. Obviously, this does not come remotely close to describing the situation as a whole in this province. If i could have it my way, any allocations reserved for the outfitting industry, would in entirety go to creating opportunity for residents. The thought of only one tag going to an outfitter, is one tag too many, when a resident is waiting in excess of 10 yrs to harvest a bull moose. I understand, Alberta is about enterprise and big business, basically, shes open arms to anyone who can create a dollar sign. But this ABSOLUTLY should not, and does not have to be the driving force behind the managment of our resource. This situation now, is just a whole other kind of madness.

keep a strain on er.

[baretrax]

According to f/w in Athabasca, its true. Outfitters can bait in these parks and the average joe can't. Why the special treatment, just because its thier livelyhood? This should get a few of you guys wound up, but can you imagine if it was only Metis that were allowed to bait in the parks. Man oh man the calls for letter writing campaigns and such would be unreal. Seeing as its just the outfitters, and everyone knows that they all follow the rules and regs, and APOS punishes those few who do stray away from the regs, and severly I might add.................what a joke. This only proves that we had better remove the blinders and take a hard look at ALL the issues that are involved in the decline of game populations...........just my 2 cents

[Jamie Hunt]

Bare... Nice tie in with the Metis......
And I get called a @#%$ disturber.
This story is just unfolding.

Hope fully Niel or Don can pick up on this and let it hit the papers. Also a full story from Rob would be great in A/O

Jamie

[baretrax]

k...............I apologize................but it does stink of corruption does it not? Why the hell are these guys allowed to bait and hunt in these areas, and we can't? Where's the justice in that? Another thing to consider is that I think that most of these areas are supposed to be quad/atv free are they not...............I may be wrong. If they are, how are the outfitters getting thier baits and stuff in? If you have ever baited, you know how much work is involved. Can't see anyone packing all the stuff in by hand, thats for sure.

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

Same issues in a wildland park in northern Alberta, close to Wood Buffalo National Park i believe. It was in the papers and on AFGA..can't remember which one, but it restricts access to residents with atvs/snowmobiles and fishing/hunting but allows for full access to the outfitters operating within the Park boundaries. Isnt CROWN LAND available to ALL ALBERTANS?

I am not anti-outfitting as I have guided in the past for big game as a break from my job during scheduled holidays for a change of pace, (and yes not all outfitters are the same-some good/some bad), but areas like Wildland Parks should be open to everyone, not just private enterprises.

[baretrax]

strange............................how come there are no outfitters from this board jumping on the band wagon and insisting that this isn't the proper way to go about doing business...........and then insisting that this kind of thing is what usually pizzes off the resident hunters.

[No hunting allowed in wildland parks for baiting bears]

Very little response to this posting , How come.
Outfitters allowed to hunt bears over baits , Alberta residents not allowed hunt over baits in wildland parks.
Outfitters have truely done a great job again, Who got paid off. As a resident of Alberta it takes about 7 years to get a draw in Alberta , yet an non-resident with money can buy any tag every year thru an outfitter.
At the beginning the outfitter was to have no more than 10% of the tags in any one wmu, They the outfitter now have more than the 10% of tags in a big number of wmu,s in Alberta, silently the outfitter goes to the well again WOW they get the right to bait and hunt bears in the wildland parks ,How come, Is Morton on there pay roll . Resident sportsmen in Alberta are being over looked because of big dollers the outfitters are willing to pay.
Morton and company are now proposing that atv users pay good $$$ to ride thier atv,s on back country trails.
Alberta sportsmen had better get off thier backsides and start writing letters, sending e-mails to Morton,MLA,S.
As resident sportsmen we cannot afford to lose anymore hunting or fishing oppertunities.