Downrigger Lessons needed

[smitty9]

Well, I've watched plenty of Youtube videos and done some reading and searching on the net (including this forum).

But nothing beats hands on experience. :)

So, I am asking if anyone wants to help a newbie for the first time with downriggers, I'd greatly appreciate it. My father and I bought some quite some time ago, and we're finally putting them to use.

I'm a pretty experienced fly fisherman and former walleye guy, but I've never targeted lakers. And I'm going to Cold Lake in 9 days. And the people I am going with are counting on me to be the go to "guide". No pressure, lol.

Anyhoo, I am going to do a test run of the downriggers either sometime in the next few days at Pigeon or Wabamun. Anyone want to join me to give a hands-on lesson or 2? I'll gladly offer compensation. :)

Conversely, I'll be "pre-fishing" Cold Lake August 10 and 11, and if any of you that are Cold Lake specialists or live in the area, that would be awesome too.

Seems like what I can gather is that generally the lures are set 20 to 30 feet behind the ball, and that 10 or 15 pound balls are preferable to lighter 5 or 8 pounders.

I suppose one question I have is, what line is best to load the downrigger reels with? I was thinking something like 15 pound Trilene XT or something tough...I don't know.

Another question is that if you found a good spot and were going to vertically jig for lakers, I assume you anchor?? Would that mean then you need some pretty heavy anchors and some pretty lengthy anchor rope?

Appreciate any help!

Mike

[Remihunter]

PM sent.

[Dacotensis]

I'll be there.
Come and find me..

Off the the fishing hole soon to pick up another downrigger.

[cube]

I use 25-30 pound mono (as the release chews up the line some)

I use 8 and 10 pound balls with out a problem but if your rigger can handle heavier even better.

I don't usually anchor when jigging for lakers on cold lake as 500 ft for rope is a lot of rope. I just use very heavy jigs so a little drifting does not matter.

Good Luck

[Remihunter]

As per our conversation. Here are 3 types of set ups I like for lakers. You can run a spoon behind the flashers or bait doesn't matter. The pic showing the flasher/ lake troll flashers ran off the ball is my favourite use the big lake troll flashers. The only thing I do different is I don't run a dodger/line flasher as well I just run the lure alone. If buying flashers/Dodgers I recommend the 8" Gibbs as they are smaller and don't have as much drag in the water.

[smitty9]

Ah!

Cheers. Appreciate the diagram! Easy to understand. :)

[Remihunter]

Sorry I can't figure out how to post more than one attachment at a time so I will do it in 3 sorry.

[Remihunter]

And again. The only thing I would change is on the rigs you are running the dodger and lure on the same line is give it a good 20' from clip to flasher and no need for more than a 4' leader from dodger to lure, 36" if using a hootchie.

I also like the Gibbs line flashers to run as dummy flashers they work great.

[RavYak]

I don't do anything fancy like Remihunter. Just a short cast out the back and then hook it to the release(type that attaches directly to ball), drop to your depth and troll. I don't feel you need a flasher, dodger or willow leaves etc, at least not on Cold Lake.

For line I just use my pike reel which has I believe 30 lb braid(might be 40). Tie on a fluorocarbon leader say 20 lb. I would definitely go with braid on downriggers(too much stretch with mono) although some people claim it doesn't work as good with clips(I have had no issue).

As for jigging one of the best ways is to use a trolling motor with spot lock to anchor but assuming you don't have that you probably would need to anchor unless it is very calm out. And yes with an anchor will need lots of rope and a decent anchor.

[-JR-]

I don't do anything fancy like Remihunter. Just a short cast out the back and then hook it to the release(type that attaches directly to ball), drop to your depth and troll. I don't feel you need a flasher, dodger or willow leaves etc, at least not on Cold Lake.

For line I just use my pike reel which has I believe 30 lb braid(might be 40). Tie on a fluorocarbon leader say 20 lb. I would definitely go with braid on downriggers(too much stretch with mono) although some people claim it doesn't work as good with clips(I have had no issue).

As for jigging one of the best ways is to use a trolling motor with spot lock to anchor but assuming you don't have that you probably would need to anchor unless it is very calm out. And yes with an anchor will need lots of rope and a decent anchor.


2x

[neilsledder]

I use 25-30 pound mono (as the release chews up the line some)



I use 8 and 10 pound balls with out a problem but if your rigger can handle heavier even better.



I don't usually anchor when jigging for lakers on cold lake as 500 ft for rope is a lot of rope. I just use very heavy jigs so a little drifting does not matter.



Good Luck



500'? How deep is that lake?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cube]

500'? How deep is that lake?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The lake is 300 feet deep. People commonly fish in waters over 120-140 feet deep. Hence you would need about 500 ft of anchor rope depending on where you were fishing on Cold Lake. I only carry 150 feet so don't anchor on Cold Lake and either use the electric with spot lock or mostly just drift and use very heavy jigs.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Lvf14E8u3cY/UBGENJo1fsI/AAAAAAAAAFc/JK4SfFmoefg/s1600/anchorscope-Ohio+Department+of+Natural+Resources.gif

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Lvf14E8u3cY/UBGENJo1fsI/AAAAAAAAAFc/JK4SfFmoefg/s1600/anchorscope-Ohio+Department+of+Natural+Resources.gif

[Remihunter]

I don't do anything fancy like Remihunter. Just a short cast out the back and then hook it to the release(type that attaches directly to ball), drop to your depth and troll. I don't feel you need a flasher, dodger or willow leaves etc, at least not on Cold Lake.

Never confuse not knowing something with not needing it. There's a reason why 10% of fishermen catch 90% of the fish,, we listen, we learn, we apply and adapt.

No it's not needed but it works when others don't. We don't NEED a tackle box full of gear to catch walleye either but we do for when the bite gets tough we can pull out a few fish.

nothing wrong with running extra attractant it only does one thing and that is attract more fish from farther distances especially when you may very well be at depths of 75' where the sun light is quite weak. It doesn't hurt to have a nice willow leaf big blade lake triller down there grabbing extra light and calling fish in from a broader area.

Any more info needed we will do it in PM's as this is where I wanted to keep it in the first place.

[Mackinaw]

I don't do anything fancy like Remihunter. Just a short cast out the back and then hook it to the release(type that attaches directly to ball), drop to your depth and troll. I don't feel you need a flasher, dodger or willow leaves etc, at least not on Cold Lake.

For line I just use my pike reel which has I believe 30 lb braid(might be 40). Tie on a fluorocarbon leader say 20 lb. I would definitely go with braid on downriggers(too much stretch with mono) although some people claim it doesn't work as good with clips(I have had no issue).

As for jigging one of the best ways is to use a trolling motor with spot lock to anchor but assuming you don't have that you probably would need to anchor unless it is very calm out. And yes with an anchor will need lots of rope and a decent anchor.

I agree found no need for willows or flashers at cold actually found the willows seemed to produce smaller fish ...but that could just be me. I find I like to have my release attached to the ball it is easier to control the depth. I like to run brads cut baits and usually leave my jigging for on the ice but if I want to jig I use stop lock.

Mack

[RavYak]

Never confuse not knowing something with not needing it. There's a reason why 10% of fishermen catch 90% of the fish,, we listen, we learn, we apply and adapt.

No it's not needed but it works when others don't. We don't NEED a tackle box full of gear to catch walleye either but we do for when the bite gets tough we can pull out a few fish.

nothing wrong with running extra attractant it only does one thing and that is attract more fish from farther distances especially when you may very well be at depths of 75' where the sun light is quite weak. It doesn't hurt to have a nice willow leaf big blade lake triller down there grabbing extra light and calling fish in from a broader area.

Any more info needed we will do it in PM's as this is where I wanted to keep it in the first place.

I caught 33 lakers in a half day last time out and 50 in a day and a half trip couple weeks before that all out of my kayak... Like I said not needed imo, key is finding the fish as once you do there are usually lots of them and no need to try and lure them in a long ways with flashers etc.

Extra gear is a pain especially if you use in line gear as it takes away from the fight. Also leads to more tangles especially when first learning how to use it. I am sure it can help but imo it usually isn't necessary on Cold Lake and considering he is starting out will already have to buy a bunch of tackle.

Another hint is load up on laker lures. They can be surprisingly picky so if you are marking fish keep changing lures until you start catching fish.

[Remihunter]

I caught 33 lakers in a half day last time out and 50 in a day and a half trip couple weeks before that all out of my kayak... Like I said not needed imo, key is finding the fish as once you do there are usually lots of them and no need to try and lure them in a long ways with flashers etc.

Extra gear is a pain especially if you use in line gear as it takes away from the fight. Also leads to more tangles especially when first learning how to use it. I am sure it can help but imo it usually isn't necessary on Cold Lake and considering he is starting out will already have to buy a bunch of tackle.

Another hint is load up on laker lures. They can be surprisingly picky so if you are marking fish keep changing lures until you start catching fish.

So you caught 35 lake trout in say 6 hrs from kayak with one rod in Cold Lake.

It would take you 1 Hr just to paddle out to a decent area, another Hr back where did you find the time to cruise around and find this big school of fish. Never mind take 35 fish off the hook.

Good day sir,, I'm done.

[RavYak]

So you caught 35 lake trout in say 6 hrs from kayak with one rod in Cold Lake.

It would take you 1 Hr just to paddle out to a decent area, another Hr back where did you find the time to cruise around and find this big school of fish. Never mind take 35 fish off the hook.

Good day sir,, I'm done.

Thanks for the kind words. It isn't that hard once you know the lake and the fish...

You can see the pics here if you want. Page 2 in link currently shows the 33 fish from 5:30 to 1:30(I consider that a half day)

http://www.kayakwars.com/angler-catches.php?anglerId=4234&year=2016&page=2

Pages 3 and 4 show the 50 fish from other weekend.

[smitty9]

Gentleman, let's stay focused on the topic. :)

Clearly, everyone has a different way of doing things, obviously there are more ways than one to skin the proverbial cat.

I appreciate the advice and varying opinions.

I don't think I'll be anchoring; 500 feet of rope seems excessive.

As for trolling, any lure advice would also be appreciated. It seems like Crocodile spoons, Williams Wobblers, Manistees, Ruby Eyed Spoons, etc. Does anyone run those Apex lures?

Thanks again!
Mike

[RavYak]

Gentleman, let's stay focused on the topic. :)

Clearly, everyone has a different way of doing things, obviously there are more ways than one to skin the proverbial cat.

I appreciate the advice and varying opinions.

I don't think I'll be anchoring; 500 feet of rope seems excessive.

As for trolling, any lure advice would also be appreciated. It seems like Crocodile spoons, Williams Wobblers, Manistees, Ruby Eyed Spoons, etc. Does anyone run those Apex lures?

Thanks again!
Mike

You have the idea on lures, a variety of spoons etc that produce different actions and try a few colour combinations out. The bite depends on the day so you need to have a few options whether you use a fast lure, slow lure, type of action etc.

Don't be afraid to go big, most of my laker lures are 4-6 inches.

[RavYak]

Since Jet commented on depth figure I better add that his points are good but don't necessarily take them as gospel. Sometimes the fish will be shallower then you think and sometimes they will be suspended at any depth in the water column. I have literally caught lakers on the surface in 100+ fow in the middle of the summer(took spoon before I could hook it up to downrigger and you see the odd one surface out there as well).

That is what can make lakers tough as they can literally be almost anywhere in the lake. They might be in 40 fow, 70 fow, 100 fow, 150 fow, 300 fow and they might be on the bottom or anywhere up to the surface. You need to move till you find them and just because you find them doesn't mean you will be able to catch them. If you find a bunch but can't get them to bite try a different spot to try and find some more active ones. If you are only catching small ones try a different spot and might find some bigger ones.

It is a big lake and it can take a while to figure it out and there are also days that it can be hard to get them to bite but if you put in the time and effort you will start to figure them out better and learn the spots and lures that work best.

[ROA]

I run 20lbs berkly big game mono on an abu 5500 reel with a 6.5foot new style ugly stick. I down graded the rod recently just because the longer ones are a pain when setting up the line on the clip. For a clip I use the normal Scotty ones right off the second (back) ring on a 12 lbs ball with a fin. I have the clips that go right onto the cable but they need some sort of stop crimped on the cable or they will slip. I use these when stacking 2 lines on one cable or when running a flasher off the ball and the lure off the cable.

Yesterday williams spoon half silver half gold down 45 feet in 170 to 200ft of water was working best for me. Fish were scattered and not many holding on the normal drop offs. Also jigged a 1oz white cold lake Killer tube jig down about 50 feet over 130fow and nailed 3 bonus fish just before calling it a day.

[Mackinaw]

So you caught 35 lake trout in say 6 hrs from kayak with one rod in Cold Lake.

It would take you 1 Hr just to paddle out to a decent area, another Hr back where did you find the time to cruise around and find this big school of fish. Never mind take 35 fish off the hook.

Good day sir,, I'm done.

If you think it takes an hour to paddle to a decent area at cold lake then you are lack two things knowledge of the lake and knowledge of a kayak. You can be in decent water with in minutes if you know the lake. With the right equipment and a little knowledge you can catch quite a few fish in short order with out dragging a lot of extra fluff through the water.

Mack

[Mackinaw]

Gentleman, let's stay focused on the topic. :)

Clearly, everyone has a different way of doing things, obviously there are more ways than one to skin the proverbial cat.

I appreciate the advice and varying opinions.

I don't think I'll be anchoring; 500 feet of rope seems excessive.

As for trolling, any lure advice would also be appreciated. It seems like Crocodile spoons, Williams Wobblers, Manistees, Ruby Eyed Spoons, etc. Does anyone run those Apex lures?

Thanks again!
Mike

If you happen to be going through bonnieville stop at Sylvestre's they have brads cut baits there they open to allow you to bait them or use scent pick up watermelon or a hot lava you will not regret it .

Mack

[Salmo]

I am currently in BC (Interlakes Area) and have been playing with the Lakers here. The jigging is fantastic and the latest sonar (chirp sonar) really lets you pick those marks out.

One frustrating thing that I am encountering is that I lose approximately 50% of the fish on the way up. I have tried altering my hooksets, drag tension, rate of "horsing" etc. with little change. any suggestions? I have't tried a stinger hook yet and the jigs i have been using range from 1/2 oz standard jig heads with 4" gulp minnows (40-50 foot depths) to 1 oz tube jigs (60-100 foot depths) and in between.

[RavYak]

If you think it takes an hour to paddle to a decent area at cold lake then you are lack two things knowledge of the lake and knowledge of a kayak. You can be in decent water with in minutes if you know the lake. With the right equipment and a little knowledge you can catch quite a few fish in short order with out dragging a lot of extra fluff through the water.

Mack

In an hour I can be 5+ kms from any launch(of which there are more kayak launches then boat launches) but that isn't even necessary as you can catch fish within minutes of some launches.

I don't want to talk down on him or question his knowledge though. He may have really good luck with his spots and methods, I just personally don't think they are required so I stick with my simpler methods.

I am currently in BC (Interlakes Area) and have been playing with the Lakers here. The jigging is fantastic and the latest sonar (chirp sonar) really lets you pick those marks out.

One frustrating thing that I am encountering is that I lose approximately 50% of the fish on the way up. I have tried altering my hooksets, drag tension, rate of "horsing" etc. with little change. any suggestions? I have't tried a stinger hook yet and the jigs i have been using range from 1/2 oz standard jig heads with 4" gulp minnows (40-50 foot depths) to 1 oz tube jigs (60-100 foot depths) and in between.

There are a few reasons you may be struggling.

a) With tube jigs I have had times where I can't get a hook up to save my life. I think it is because they are biting the head of the tube jig, I have thought of adding a stinger but haven't done so yet.

b) Too small of a gap on the hooks used. I very rarely land a lake trout on a cold lake special stinger hook. I think the trebles he uses are too small and don't get a good enough bit in the lakers tough mouths. This might be part of the issue with your 1/2 oz jig head(shouldn't be on the tube jig though).

c) Barbless hooks, lake trout like to flop around instead of taking runs especially after they are a little tired. Especially if you are single barbless this could be a big reason you are loosing fish. With experience you can feel when a fish gets off this way as you will feel them flopping around and then get off(usually higher in the water column).

To help with barbless hooks you can do a couple things.

a) Reel the fish in fast. Tighten your drag down and horse it in and don't give it an inch. This has downsides in that you will kill more fish because if you horse a laker in from deep water it increases its chances in not burping properly, as such I don't recommend doing so especially on a lake like say Cold Lake where you have to throw back 95% of the fish you catch. Also you will loose the odd fish by pulling the lures out this way.

b) Try a longer rod with softer action. This keeps more pressure on the hook while the fish flops around. You don't want a wet noodle of a rod like an ugly stick, you just want a nice long strong but flexible rod like a salmon/steelhead type rod.

c) Loosing your drag will allow them to run more instead of flopping around. Lakers like to flop though so it is hard to avoid. There is a sweet spot to set your drag but unfortunately it changes with each fish size so you need to adjust constantly or put up with the little guys flopping more.

[ROA]

From what I have seen some of the "bites" you get for lakers aren't bites at all. They like to smack the lure with their heads and bodys. You can get a lot of fouled hooked fish some days. Same with jigging (and I have watched them through the ice) can be annoying as only 1 hit in 10 or worse can actually be from a bite some times. Also It will feel as if you are loosing fish as the hook can stick for a little wile in their face before they pop off.

[Salmo]

All good suggestions, I've tried different rods in addition to different baits, I guess I get it and keep trying to stick those buggers!!

On the positive I can't believe the definition chirp provides, I can separate lakers below the Kokanee schools, see multiple fish 2 feet apart and see them lying belly on the bottom in 120 feet. Impressive with walleye at 28' but lakers at 120 is pretty cool.

[EZM]

A couple good points made I agree with if the `bites arent letting you hook the fish.

1) Set the hook like you are fishing for tuna - lakers have very tough mouths

2) keep your hooks ridiculously sharp - I have a slotted pencil file on board and the point gets worked a few times during a day of fishing

3) Use bait or scent if you are allowed - they seem to grab a little longer and bite a little harder.

4) Lakers will run the bait and head butt it like an aussie rugby bloke - if you are getting a quick jab and then a pause let the bait sink and flop like it wounded - if nothing in a second or two reel hard and often a laker will chase you up and grab your lure or bait

[maximusII]

How long are the Lakers down deep and require down riggers in cold lake?

[Mackinaw]

How long are the Lakers down deep and require down riggers in cold lake?

Most of the time but you can catch them with out a rigger either a dipsy, a pink lady, a three way or use lead core. To me rigger is the easiest you can also jig for them.

Mack

[Remihunter]

Just to touch on the dummy flasher issue boys. It's not like it's a big hassle, not sure what part of it has some so stressed lol. Once the flasher is on its on you don't touch it again it's no hassle and not a big deal. It's only there to add more attraction for the lure. Why run a big willow leaf off your line and deal with all that drag when you can hang it off your rigger and have a nice feel and fight with your fish.

Each to his own though, do as you will.

[Remihunter]

How long are the Lakers down deep and require down riggers in cold lake?


Usually in the spring they are tucked up in some of the bay's and sitting in 30' or less. Trolling spoons or deep running minnow baits can produce some nice fish. Have caught some of my biggest this way.

[EZM]

Flasher versus no Flasher or Flasher versus Willow is one of those things where some days it pays and other days it doesn't.

I have a preference for running willows up high in when the lakers are high and chasing the lake herring (ciscoe or tulibees) around.

Flashers typically deeper.

I'm not married to one way or another - I like to see what's working and repeat.

[RavYak]

I'm not married to one way or another - I like to see what's working and repeat.

That is the thing about Cold and lakers in general. You can't be married to a spot or lure because it won't always work. I was up on Sunday and tried a couple spots and techniques but I never really got them dialed in. Still caught a dozen but was hoping for better then that.

[Mackinaw]

Just to touch on the dummy flasher issue boys. It's not like it's a big hassle, not sure what part of it has some so stressed lol. Once the flasher is on its on you don't touch it again it's no hassle and not a big deal. It's only there to add more attraction for the lure. Why run a big willow leaf off your line and deal with all that drag when you can hang it off your rigger and have a nice feel and fight with your fish.

Each to his own though, do as you will.

I don't run willows or a flasher at cold. Don't see the need have never had trouble dialing the fish in.

Mack

[RavYak]

Just to touch on the dummy flasher issue boys. It's not like it's a big hassle, not sure what part of it has some so stressed lol. Once the flasher is on its on you don't touch it again it's no hassle and not a big deal. It's only there to add more attraction for the lure. Why run a big willow leaf off your line and deal with all that drag when you can hang it off your rigger and have a nice feel and fight with your fish.

Each to his own though, do as you will.

Missed this, I have no issues with a dummy flasher it is definitely the way to go because fighting a flasher and a fish is just a pain. I like Mackinaw just don't see the need for a flasher or willow leaf on Cold Lake though.

When I think of flashers and willow leaves etc I am thinking of needing to attract fish that are spread out in lower numbers especially when using a smaller less flashy lure like for example a hootchie salmon fishing. At Cold Lake I never have problems finding fish and a guy often times uses large enough/flashy lures I believe they are easily visible without a flasher/willow leaf(just look at how easily they can spot a jig from 30+ feet away and chase up to it if in the right mood).

It is easy to mark hundreds of lakers in a day at Cold, the difficulty is finding out how to catch them and I feel varying your lures/presentations will help more then adding an attractant.

There are a some times when a flasher etc does more then just attract fish. For example in the ocean for salmon they are used to impart motion onto hootchies. In this case they need to be tied inline though and that adds difficulty in fighting and landing a fish so in Cold Lake's case isn't worth it imo.

There are some other lakes I have considered trying a flasher or willow leaf too though.

[Remihunter]

I don't run willows or a flasher at cold. Don't see the need have never had trouble dialing the fish in.

Mack

Then fill your boots Jr.

[Mackinaw]

Then fill your boots Jr.

No thanks I'll fill my cooler instead. .....with fish of course 😊


OH thanks for the Jr ...made me chuckle as I'm as old as dirt.

Mack

[smitty9]

Hey everyone:

Thanks again for your replies. Really appreciate the help.

I leave for Cold Lake tomorrow, and I begin pre-fishing on August 11th. If any of you are available on the 11th, you are welcome to join me, as I will be by myself. Yer still welcome to join me after the 11th if that day doesn't work, I'll be around the lake until the 16th. Pm me on the forum or email mikesmitty.fishinbuddy@gmail.com

Cheers.

Mike

[Mackinaw]

Hey everyone:

Thanks again for your replies. Really appreciate the help.

I leave for Cold Lake tomorrow, and I begin pre-fishing on August 11th. If any of you are available on the 11th, you are welcome to join me, as I will be by myself. Yer still welcome to join me after the 11th if that day doesn't work, I'll be around the lake until the 16th. Pm me on the forum or email mikesmitty.fishinbuddy@gmail.com

Cheers.

Mike

Have fun it's a beautiful lake to fish just watch the weather can turn nasty fast.

Mack

[-JR-]

[QUOTE=Remihunter;3297226]Then fill your boots Jr

Now I'am laughing. Did not wright anything on this topic.
Want to fill me in !

[Salavee]

Have any of you guys tried this stuff on Cold Lake ?

http://baitrix.com/fishing-products/whole-bait/

[SNAPFisher]

Just to touch on the dummy flasher issue boys. It's not like it's a big hassle, not sure what part of it has some so stressed lol. Once the flasher is on its on you don't touch it again it's no hassle and not a big deal. It's only there to add more attraction for the lure. Why run a big willow leaf off your line and deal with all that drag when you can hang it off your rigger and have a nice feel and fight with your fish.

Each to his own though, do as you will.

Yep, agreed. It is also nice to change it up and is not complicated. Maybe for some in kayaks it is too much.

A setup up like you have mentioned is also great practice for the West coast :)

[Mackinaw]

Yep, agreed. It is also nice to change it up and is not complicated. Maybe for some in kayaks it is too much.

A setup up like you have mentioned is also great practice for the West coast :)

The original comment was not the fact that it was difficult but the fact that it was unnecessary at cold lake. I have flashers, dodgers, fenders and blades by the box full when there necessary I use them when their not I don't at cold I don't. Not saying a guy can't but why if you font need to its like wearing waders when mucks will do why would you.☺

Mack