Choice of Shotgun for Upland Bird hunting [Archive]

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smurph22

02-21-2007, 12:02 AM

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12 Ga&nbsp</td>
<td height>41 / 39.4%&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/bar.gif width=118 height=10 hspace=3> </td></tr>
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16 Ga.&nbsp</td>
<td height>9 / 8.7%&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/bar.gif width=25 height=10 hspace=3> </td></tr>
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20 Ga.&nbsp</td>
<td height>45 / 43.3%&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/bar.gif width=129 height=10 hspace=3> </td></tr>
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.410 Caliber&nbsp</td>
<td height>9 / 8.7%&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/bar.gif width=25 height=10 hspace=3> </td></tr>
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gunner 83

02-21-2007, 01:10 AM

my brother has an old single shot Cooey 20ga, that thing is the easiest shotgun to shoulder. when we go out skeet shooting, that thing will knock down more clays than anythings, no matter who is using it

RyanGSP

02-21-2007, 10:06 AM

I would reccomedn a 20 or 12 gauge simply because shells are the cheapest for those 2 gauges. As soon as you go to a 16 410 or 28 shells go through the roof.

I also veted for a 12 gauge simply because when im upland hunting I hunt alot of areas with geese and ducks so I get chances to shoot at those and I like more of a payload for thos big honkers and northern mallards.

If I only hunted upland and never shot at waterfowl I would look into a O/U 20 gauge. You just have to remeber to go one size up for shells. Example I shoot 5's at pheasants with my 12 if I owned a 20 I would be shooting 4 and I would be shooting 6's at huns.

Okotokian

02-21-2007, 10:57 AM

I use a 12 gauge semi-auto Berretta, but that's because it's the only shotgun I have. I like the semi-auto, but have been considering downsizing to a 16 or 20 gauge because of the weight. Lugging a 12 gauge across fields and up and down hills for hours gets a little tiring for out-of-shape coots like me!

I DO like being able to come across a pond while upland hunting, see ducks, and just popping in a couple of non-toxic shells and go after them. I might be more hesitant to do that with a 20 gauge. Not sure.

cohod

02-21-2007, 07:24 PM

Depends on what upland bird you are hunting and how you hunt with or with out dogs and what kind of dog pointer/ flusher.
I hunt pointers and this seams to work for me.
20 for grouse huns
16 for huns pheasants
12 for pheasants
I personally use a 12 for #5 shot for pheasants they can be hard to kill and I owe it to the bird to kill it and not cripple it. ( Although I have killed lots with the 20 as well)I don’t like to leave them out for the yotes .if I had to pick just one shot gun I would say the 16 is the most versatile upland gun but shells can be hard to find and a bit pricey

cohod

smurph22

02-21-2007, 08:05 PM

Awesome info everybody... thanks for the responses!

Re: shot gun

02-22-2007, 02:12 AM

Interesting topic with the usual information/misinformation.

It is a fact that every gauge of shotgun shoots at much the same velocity with a similar type of load. A #5 shot pellet is the same size regardless of whether it is fired from a 10 ga. or a 410 calibre smoothbore. If you have the same size pellet going the same speed it will carry exactly the same energy level. Energy is killing power. Ergo, no need to increase shot size when changing guage as the pellets are just as effective. So what is the difference? Pellet count. As you get smaller you get less of the pellets and therefore you get a lower pellet density. It is the pellet density that is important to garner sufficient pellet strikes to transfer enough energy for a clean efficient kill. Increasing pellet size decreases the pellet count further and thereby reduces pellet density even more, exacerbating a problem. When reducing gauge it would make sense to move to a size smaller pellet to maintain sufficient density in the pattern. This however reduces the range at which the pellets will effectively carry their energy and limits the shooter. The other option is to choke the smaller guage tighter to gain an effective increase in pellet density by reducing size of spread. This keeps the effective killing range combination of pellet density and energy to the same limit but forces the shooter to be more accurate as the pattern size is smaller. IMO this is a poor option for most shooters as it results in more fringed birds from poor shot placement. Average shooters who want to downsize their gauge are best served by shooting smaller shot with a more open choke at reduced ranges to maintain effective killing patterns. Good shooters who center birds can use small gauges at all reasonable ranges by using normal size shot from tighter chokes.

The particular choice of load size, pellet size and gauge depends on many factors. If you are an opportunistic general hunter such as Ryan has alluded to the 12 ga. gives the greatest opportunity to match gun to game. If economy is a concern then the 12 ga. is the obvious choice. If you are carrying your gun all day then the 20 ga SxS double may appeal to you for the smaller size/weight. If you want to impress all your buddies with your shooting prowess a single shot 410 may be just the ticket (very light weight as well). If you are hunting in the woods for Ruffies a short, light gun that comes up lightning fast will be an asset. For those not limited in cash or ability a custom fitted 28 ga. would be just the ticket here (like this one www.caesarguerini.com/magnus_light.htm (http://www.caesarguerini.com/magnus_light.htm) ).

If you are shooting strictly upland you will also have to consider the conditions under which you are hunting them. Shooting dogless, with a flushing dog or over a pointing dog has a considerable effect on the expected range at which you will be shooting influencing both your choice of choke and shot size.

For myself I gun over pointing dogs and am very pleased with carrying a 5 lb SxS 20 ga. all day long. I shoot 7/8 oz of #6 shot on pheasant and sharptail and 7 1/2 or 8 shot on huns. The barrels are choked improved and modified for an effective gunning range from 10 to 30 yards. On very windy days I will switch to #5 shot on sharptail to reduce the effect of wind on the shot string. When shooting over flushing dogs I will move to 1 oz of shot from modified and full chokes to move my effective pattern out to 20 to 40 yards compensating for the increased seperation at flush.

Faststeel

02-24-2007, 02:11 AM

I have a 2 year old Beretta 20 gauge that I now use all the time, esp when hiking around southern Alberta for upland game. When we are after huns I use my IC choke and for pheasants I change to the Mod choke. I use a 1oz load of Kent Ultimate Upland, shot size number 6. Not much gets away.FS

RyanGSP

02-24-2007, 10:06 PM

I like 6's for all around shot size for upland game but there is no need to get into those HV or specialty rounds. Wally world rounds work just as good. Its all about practice. If you usually shoot wally world shells then those are the ones you will connect with and visa versa.

Re: Gun use

02-25-2007, 01:16 AM

A better quality shell will not make a good shooter of a poor one. Simply switching to a better quality shell will improve the hit percentage of a good shooter by a point or two.

For myself I shoot Federal Upland 6's as they are the most economical I can find for the 20 ga.

Faststeel

02-25-2007, 01:42 AM

Well Ryan I beg to differ with you when it comes to ammo selection, only because I hunt with labs and you hunt with a pointer. Usually you pointer guys are alot closer to the flush than us lab guys and therefore do not need a premium load to harvest your birds. Now I shoot a 20 bore , but all the younger fellows I hunt with down south are 12 gauge guys, and their preference is 1 1/2oz or 1 1/4oz number 5 shot, and sometimes #4 shot. Just like you we want to kill them, not cripple those fine wild ringneck birds. FS

varmitr

02-25-2007, 02:29 AM

i think the 20 would do everything to do the job 12 just seems to be to 'big'

RyanGSP

02-25-2007, 11:10 AM

Fasteel I have shot over pointers along with half of Taber and now with the new walmart in town all the cheap loads are sold before the expensive "premium" ones. Its like this in lethbridge as well.

If you prsctice with the cheapers you will connect with the cheapers. No matter how fast a pheasant flys it isnt going to fly faster than a 100 bb's coming outta your guns.

DUCKN8R

02-25-2007, 07:15 PM

What I've found is that not every load patterns the same out of every gun.

I've seen big holes in patters with both steel and lead shot that birds could easily survive. Although I admit that steel is way more finacky then lead.

So while these walmart loads might work for some they might not be the ticket for others.

As and example cheap remignton loads print almost 3 feet lower patterns at 40 yards out of my SxS 12 ga than some other brands.

A little time spent at the patterning board can pay off big time in the field.

Brett

M70

03-01-2007, 11:33 AM

The cheap Winchester and Federal loads from Walmart and Cdn Tire I will use for shooting clays but I want something premium for pheasants. I've used the cheap stuff for up close grouse but I will spend the extra money for pheasants. It may be different if you shoot over a pointer.

The amount that a guy has to walk, the fact that I hunt over a lab and the fact that pheasant hunting days are a premium if you also hunt ducks and deer on either side of the pheasant season, I will make good and sure that ring neck is going down.

For me, cheap ammo doesn't add to much of a cost savings when I consider how much I've invested in each trip.

qbochar

03-05-2007, 01:46 PM

I use a .410 for grouse and huns, and have never had a problem. In fact I am looking at buying a pump .410 instead of having just one shot.

I prefer not to eat a lot of pellets when I eat my birds.

Okotokian

03-06-2007, 05:40 PM

The cheap Winchester and Federal loads from Walmart and Cdn Tire I will use for shooting clays but I want something premium for pheasants.

I've had a running debate with myself about that one. I've been doing the same, but if I think about it, it makes more sense to practice with what I hunt with, and vice versa, especially with the earlier comment that different brand/loads shoot differently.

shells

03-17-2007, 05:10 PM

okotokian....... Do you shoot clays at dewinton.maybe jamie and i have seen you there.

prairieboy

03-18-2007, 12:25 PM

packhuntr

03-18-2007, 07:28 PM

I started with an old cooey single in 12 bore. Used to practice as a kid reloading that damned thing as fast as I could, for hours with empty hulls. Lots of times I would dump a late jumping bird for a double. Happened on just about all game birds, except them cagey roosters. Didnt have alot of pheasant where I grew up, so if I got lucky enough to jump afew roosters, I took my time and made 1 shot count. Dont know for sure if I even could have made my practiced reload work on em. Id be like a bag of jello if I knew I was about put a rooster up. I suppose not much has changed. Gotta love them roosters. Still have the old girl. Got me wondering if Im fast enough anymore to take mabey a stagered double???? Probuably not!!!!!!

Okotokian

03-20-2007, 11:59 AM

yes Jim Hunt, I shoot at the AHEIA facility... been going sort of every other sunday there the past couple months. If you see a fellow at the traps spraying lead into thin air while watching clays fall harmlessly to the ground, that would be me.

joelvca

03-23-2007, 01:58 PM

Given my limited budget for toys, it's mostly a matter of using what I have, which is currently two. More often than not, that means my 12ga side-by-each, but when I'm not feeling so lazy, I take my favorite, the 16ga flinter. In the 16 with no chokes, I usually load 1oz of #7.5s, 1 or 1.1/8oz of #6, or 1.1/4oz of #5s, depending.

When I finish farting around with load development, the same choices, and probably frequencies, of gun will apply to waterfowl, too.

Joel