Monster Pike Bait & What Bait Fish are Legal to use in Alberta

[Zip-in-Z]

Found these in the grocery store this afternoon, I imagine they'd be good bait for monster Pike .... anyone try them ?

Got the suckers in Dickson Trout Pond a year or so ago, they're the real thing. Sylvan & Gull open on Dec 11th, we got some ice forming around the shoreline, forecast for the next week looks good to build some thick ice.

Getting excited fellas ?

http://www.albertafishingguide.com/location/water/all/sylvan-lake


No Frills/Superstore in Sylvan next to smelts.

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a515/ZIP-IN-Z/P1080010_zps8n50sfxw.jpg

Dickson Suckers all about 10" length.

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a515/ZIP-IN-Z/P1090349_zpsvyce2pgq.jpg

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a515/ZIP-IN-Z/P1090360_zps1bf6ae45.jpg

[honker_clonker]

I've used chub mackerel, herring (fresh and frozen), blue scad and pacific saury before from superstore, all great bait. My favourites are fresh herring and the blue scad. I like to salt my herring before I freeze them to help prevent them from sticking together, and it toughens them up a bit so they stay on the hook/don't go mushy as fast. You can get a whole tray (10 ish 6-8" baits) for like $5!

[HowSwedeItIs]

Man those look good. Looking forward to trying out a quick-strike rig under my new jaw jacker this season. Those look mackerel seem like they would fit the bill

[Skoaltender]

I use the superstore herring all the time. I soak them in a extremely salty brine for 4-5 hours, drain, then coat in salt prior to freezing. A lot cheaper then buying from bait shops...

[Tcon]

Salting is a good idea to retain rigidity but I just use them as is and have had great success.

[waterninja]

Been buying my pike bait from superstore for 20 years. don't know if they are superior when it comes to actually catching something, but darn if you don't get some good chit at a good price.

[Zip-in-Z]

I've used chub mackerel, herring (fresh and frozen), blue scad and pacific saury before from superstore, all great bait.



Part 3
Sportfishing
Angling Restrictions
19 No person shall angle using
....
(g) any fish as bait, other than dead bait fish, dead smelt, dead herring, dead shrimp, dead fish eggs or the skin, fins or eyes of game fish caught by angling.


Alberta Fishery Regulations
Source: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-246/page-2.html?txthl=herring#s-19


OK .... Dead is dead, fresh or frozen.... what am I/we missing in your post ?

Pls clarify Tks

[the11fisherman]

It's not a bait fish, bait fish are:
suckers (family Catostomidae)
sticklebacks (family Gasterosteidae)
trout-perch (Percopsis omiscomaycus)
Iowa darter (Etheostoma exile)
minnows (family Cyprinidae), except carp, goldfish and the western silvery minnow.

I.E. either bait fish you've harvested, or bait fish you've purchased.

So Mackeral for example isn't a bait fish and isn't a smelt or herring, so it's not legal. The sucker's you caught at Dickson (provided you're allowed to catch bait fish there (I haven't checked, I guess you have)), are legal to use for bait and would be "bait fish". You can freeze or use em fresh provided they're dead.

Buy smelts, herring or shrimp or dead fish eggs from superstore and you're OK, anything else (Mackerel etc.) and you're not.

But don't beat yourself up too much about it, many people on the forum have read and replied to this thread and haven't mentioned it yet.

It's a federal rule and repeated in the Alberta Act, and in the regs. But it's a written less clear in the regs than in the Act, so many miss it. But they do ticket for it as they go by the act. Fine is $200.

I've also contacted ESRD to verify, and they verified what's written above to be the case.

Sorry for the bad news, I don't know why they have rules like this and don't allow all saltwater species, considering the threat from minnows etc. from other jurisdictions is greater.

Mackerel are not actually a sport fish.......:thinking-006:And if it is not a sport fish.......it is a baitfish.........if you don't believe my look it up in the British Columbia Tidal Regions Fishing Regulations. It is completely legal. You can even buy mackerel for bait in many sporting goods store locations (but they more expensive than heck, so it is recommendable that you just make your way to superstore.....)

[Zip-in-Z]

OK Jet ... so you're sayin the Mackerel in the pic is illegal for bait in Ab ... my guess, not many here would know that ... another dumb rule that doesn't make sense, did you find out the hard way with a $200.00 fine ?

If that's the case, tks for clarifying & sharing your pearls of wisdom.

[SNAPFisher]

OK Jet ... sharing your pearls of wisdom.

:sHa_sarcasticlol:

And moving on, looking forwards to the ice season Zip? Hopefully the wind stays down now. Might have to check Pigeon this weekend. Cheers.

[Zip-in-Z]

:sHa_sarcasticlol:

And moving on, looking forwards to the ice season Zip? Hopefully the wind stays down now. Might have to check Pigeon this weekend. Cheers.

Snap .... I broke through and got wet socks this afternoon walking out 2-3 feet on the ice on Sylvan .... still a bit early, stay dry.

See ....

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a515/ZIP-IN-Z/P1080015_zpspefur7ea.jpg

[honker_clonker]

Part 3
Sportfishing
Angling Restrictions
19 No person shall angle using
....
(g) any fish as bait, other than dead bait fish, dead smelt, dead herring, dead shrimp, dead fish eggs or the skin, fins or eyes of game fish caught by angling.


Alberta Fishery Regulations
Source: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-246/page-2.html?txthl=herring#s-19

Good to know, its a good thing I haven't bought bait this year yet. Herring and smelts from here on out I guess.

[cube]

It's a federal rule and repeated in the Alberta Act, and in the regs. But it's a written less clear in the regs than in the Act, so many miss it. But they do ticket for it as they go by the act. Fine is $200.

.

Would you have the link to the Federal rule/Act?

Thanks

Ben

[huntsfurfish]

Would you have the link to the Federal rule/Act?

Thanks

Ben

Here you go:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-246/FullText.html

[SNAPFisher]

Snap .... I broke through and got wet socks this afternoon walking out 2-3 feet on the ice on Sylvan .... still a bit early, stay dry.

See ....

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a515/ZIP-IN-Z/P1080015_zpspefur7ea.jpg

Yeah, that is early ice alright. I'll likely take a look at Pigeon but no plans to step on anything yet :)

Keep the updates coming Zip!

[Zip-in-Z]

Learned something new on this forum, as member “Jet” has pointed out, I wouldn’t recommend anyone use those Chub Mackerel in the first pic ... use the bait that's listed and enjoy some good Pike fishin this ice season.

Z-z


A good refresher for everyone, cut & paste from - Provincial Reg's …. 2016/17 Alberta Guide to Sport Fishing Regulations.

http://albertaregulations.ca/fishingregs/general-regs.html#fishingwithbaitfish

Fishing with Bait Fish - Bait Fish means any of the following:
• suckers (family Catostomidae)
• sticklebacks (family Gasterosteidae)
• trout-perch (Percopsis omiscomaycus)
• Iowa darter (Etheostoma exile)
• minnows (family Cyprinidae), except carp, goldfish and the western silvery minnow.

Note: Pet store fish (tropical fish) or crayfish cannot be used as bait fish. Bait Fish may be used in waters that do not have bait bans or bait fish restrictions. Where fishing with bait fish is prohibited, other baits including smelts, herring, gammarus shrimp and dead fish eggs (e.g., preserved “salmon eggs”) may be used, provided a bait ban is not in effect for that water body.

NOTE: Smelts and herring are of the saltwater families Osmeridae and Clupeidae. Use of the freshwater species cisco (Coregonidae), also called tullibee or lake herring, is prohibited from use as bait. Parts of Game Fish. Only the skin, fins, eyes and dead eggs of game fish may be used as bait, provided these fish were lawfully caught by angling. Skin, fins, eyes and dead eggs of game fish may be used where the use of bait fish is prohibited, but cannot be used where bait bans are in effect. All game fish kept must be counted in the daily catch limit, including any fish from which parts are used for bait.

From the - Federal FISHERIES ACT

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-246/FullText.html

Alberta Fishery Regulations, 1998 - SOR/98-246 Registration 1998-04-23, Alberta Fishery Regulations, 1998
Under Interpretation 1 (1) The definitions in this subsection apply in these Regulations.

Point # 3 - bait fish means a fish of a species set out in Part 2 of Schedule 1.

Item # 38 These Regulations come into force on April 23, 1998. SCHEDULE 1 - Bait Fish - PART 2

Species of Bait Fish

Item: Common Name Scientific Name
1 Iowa darter Etheostoma exile
2 Minnows, except carp, goldfish and western silvery minnow, Family Cyprinidae
3 Sticklebacks Family Gasterosteidae
4 Suckers Family Catostomidae
5 Trout perch Percopsis omiscomaycus


No where's do you see Chub Mackerel

[the11fisherman]

Learned something new on this forum, as member “Jet” has pointed out, I wouldn’t recommend anyone use those Chub Mackerel in the first pic ... use the bait that's listed and enjoy some good Pike fishin this ice season.

Z-z


A good refresher for everyone, cut & paste from - Provincial Reg's …. 2016/17 Alberta Guide to Sport Fishing Regulations.

http://albertaregulations.ca/fishingregs/general-regs.html#fishingwithbaitfish

Fishing with Bait Fish - Bait Fish means any of the following:
• suckers (family Catostomidae)
• sticklebacks (family Gasterosteidae)
• trout-perch (Percopsis omiscomaycus)
• Iowa darter (Etheostoma exile)
• minnows (family Cyprinidae), except carp, goldfish and the western silvery minnow.

Note: Pet store fish (tropical fish) or crayfish cannot be used as bait fish. Bait Fish may be used in waters that do not have bait bans or bait fish restrictions. Where fishing with bait fish is prohibited, other baits including smelts, herring, gammarus shrimp and dead fish eggs (e.g., preserved “salmon eggs”) may be used, provided a bait ban is not in effect for that water body.

NOTE: Smelts and herring are of the saltwater families Osmeridae and Clupeidae. Use of the freshwater species cisco (Coregonidae), also called tullibee or lake herring, is prohibited from use as bait. Parts of Game Fish. Only the skin, fins, eyes and dead eggs of game fish may be used as bait, provided these fish were lawfully caught by angling. Skin, fins, eyes and dead eggs of game fish may be used where the use of bait fish is prohibited, but cannot be used where bait bans are in effect. All game fish kept must be counted in the daily catch limit, including any fish from which parts are used for bait.

From the - Federal FISHERIES ACT

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-246/FullText.html

Alberta Fishery Regulations, 1998 - SOR/98-246 Registration 1998-04-23, Alberta Fishery Regulations, 1998
Under Interpretation 1 (1) The definitions in this subsection apply in these Regulations.

Point # 3 - bait fish means a fish of a species set out in Part 2 of Schedule 1.

Item # 38 These Regulations come into force on April 23, 1998. SCHEDULE 1 - Bait Fish - PART 2

Species of Bait Fish

Item: Common Name Scientific Name
1 Iowa darter Etheostoma exile
2 Minnows, except carp, goldfish and western silvery minnow, Family Cyprinidae
3 Sticklebacks Family Gasterosteidae
4 Suckers Family Catostomidae
5 Trout perch Percopsis omiscomaycus


No where's do you see Chub Mackerel


I just emailed the head office of Alberta Fish and Game to ask them about this pending issue (takes up to 3 days to get a response, so I will be patient). If it truly is illegal to use Mackerel for bait, there are a few stores that I will be reporting, since they sell them all the time in the bait fridge.

[Zip-in-Z]

I just emailed the head office of Alberta Fish and Game to ask them about this pending issue (takes up to 3 days to get a response, so I will be patient). If it truly is illegal to use Mackerel for bait, there are a few stores that I will be reporting, since they sell them all the time in the bait fridge.


Look forward to your update with their response ....

[BiggieB]

I just emailed the head office of Alberta Fish and Game to ask them about this pending issue (takes up to 3 days to get a response, so I will be patient). If it truly is illegal to use Mackerel for bait, there are a few stores that I will be reporting, since they sell them all the time in the bait fridge.

I apologize if this sounds mean, not trying to be rude but you said they sell it in the bait fridge.... That doesn't mean they are forcing you to buy it and use it as bait.
Similar item is a sucker harness it's intended to be put on a LIVE sucker, but is sold at the fishin hole...
or look at deer bait, not legal to use in Alberta but Canadian tire and Cabelas sells it on a regular.:angry3:
I've made a few mistakes myself so that's why it pays to re-re-re-read the regulations, there is always something new to learn.:)

[Newellknik]

Why would it matter what kind of dead bait you use . I'm pretty sure
there will a multitude of P Carp live and dead used for Big Pike
this winter .

[cube]

Here you go:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-246/FullText.html

Pretty sure those are the Alberta fisheries act just posted onto the Federal website.

I believe these are the Federal fisheries act.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-93-53/index.html

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/f-14/

Did not find any place there about bait.

[cube]

I just emailed the head office of Alberta Fish and Game to ask them about this pending issue (takes up to 3 days to get a response, so I will be patient). If it truly is illegal to use Mackerel for bait, there are a few stores that I will be reporting, since they sell them all the time in the bait fridge.

Did you email "Alberta Fish and Game" ,which is a private club (http://www.afga.org/) , or did you email Alberta Fish and Wildlife, part of the Gov't (http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/)?

[fish99]

where using bait fish is banned example spray lakes , you can use bait like smelts or any salt water fish.

[Zip-in-Z]

I hope I'm not the only one here who finds this topic a bit confusing. Fish & Wildlife and A/O fishin experts should develop a recognized degree program for "Master-Baiters" with a certificate suitable for framing so one can clearly understand the Alberta Guide to Sport Fishing Regulations & Federal FISHERIES ACT as it applies to something a simple as fishin with dead bait fish ..... count me in!

. :argue2: .

.

[the11fisherman]

Did you email "Alberta Fish and Game" ,which is a private club (http://www.afga.org/) , or did you email Alberta Fish and Wildlife, part of the Gov't (http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/)?

I meant fish and wildlife.

[Wes_G]

I just emailed the head office of Alberta Fish and Game to ask them about this pending issue (takes up to 3 days to get a response, so I will be patient). If it truly is illegal to use Mackerel for bait, there are a few stores that I will be reporting, since they sell them all the time in the bait fridge.

Not illegal to sell, just illegal to use. Most shops sell gaffs as well which are illegal to use in Alberta.

[Brandonkop]

Thanks for the update Jet. This must be a change in the last few years. Because I don't recall it being that specific in the regs the last time I had a read through. For sure don't remember it detailing every baitfish and that its ok to use smelt, herring, shrimp and eggs. This is news to me.

We have used Mackerel for years as well as blue scad and some others. But most of the time I just use herring. Anyways I'll have to see if I can find some old regs and see what it looked like a few years ago. I do think its a little silly that you can't use other dead fish. I've even used Milk fish in the last couple of years, but didn't catch anything. I've been checked several times by CO's with tip ups down and they just check my license and leave. They never look at what I have on for bait.

Has anyone actually been ticketed for this???

[HowSwedeItIs]

"This species of fish, the Keo Fish, may not be used as bait when angling in Alberta. The reason it may not be used as bait is because only specified kinds of fish and specified parts of fish may be used as bait by anglers in Alberta."

So basically there's no good reason for them to not be on the list, haha. Thanks for posting the response you got.

I remember that thread about baiting minnow traps, I really hope that they can take the time to clear up confusing/illogical parts of the regs soon. The willingness to lay fines along the 'letter' as opposed to the 'spirit' of the law honestly disappoints me, for as much as I believe in following the rules.

[burbotman]

Looking into this further, 2014/15/16 are all the same. But it's a bit more devious than that. They don't (in the regs) explicitly say you can only use dead herring etc., that's in the act. They say it in the regs kind by omission, read it, it's odd, it's there, but nowhere near explicit or clear, it's implied by what the say.

It's in the act though. The act is the rules though, they say that in the regs and it's what they book on. AB really needs to get their act (forgive the pun) together on this stuff and right regs more clearly. I wonder how many people get booked for this because they didn't take the time to make it clear in the regs.

It would be interesting to see if anyone on here has received or heard of anyone
Getting ticketed for this issue.
Some years at the badger derby there would be "hundreds" of people in violation.

Serious question- How many people would call someone in if they saw them using mackerel for bait?

[RavYak]

Why would it matter what kind of dead bait you use . I'm pretty sure
there will a multitude of P Carp live and dead used for Big Pike
this winter .

The regs are very clear on not using carp.

Bait Fish means any of the following:
...
minnows (family Cyprinidae), except carp, goldfish

Never ever use invasive species as bait. You will not enjoy the fine if caught doing so. Dead or not it doesn't matter...

[idaman]

Serious question- How many people would call someone in if they saw them using mackerel for bait?

Without hesitation if your using illegal baitfish and I know then 100% I will call...same with bait in minnow traps.

For once I agree with Ravyak... Never use invasive species, dead or alive...If your using a invasive species as bait your a complete idiot.

[Zip-in-Z]

Some excellent posts fella's .... changed the Title of this thread to reflect the conversation, perhaps we'll all learn something worth while.


.

[SNAPFisher]

Without hesitation if your using illegal baitfish and I know then 100% I will call...same with bait in minnow traps.

For once I agree with Ravyak... Never use invasive species, dead or alive...If your using a invasive species as bait your a complete idiot.

Sorry but there are other things to worry about than a dead fish, invasive or not. Though I'm trying to stretch my imagination on how a mackerel could even be classified as invasive...so far from it's home...in fresh water...and dead...that is a lot stacked up against it :)

I guess if that is how you want to spend your spare time, concerned about nothing, your prerogative. And I'm not posting this to stir it up, I just find it difficult to justify ruining someone's day over nothing.

Let me ask you, would you consider suing if you fell into a hole in the ice on an aerated pond that did not have the proper signage? I bit off the original topic...but I'm curious.

[burbotman]

Without hesitation if your using illegal baitfish and I know then 100% I will call...same with bait in minnow traps.

For once I agree with Ravyak... Never use invasive species, dead or alive...If your using a invasive species as bait your a complete idiot.

Agreed, but pretty sure mackerel pose little threat......

[idaman]

Let me ask you, would you consider suing if you fell into a hole in the ice on an aerated pond that did not have the proper signage? I bit off the original topic...but I'm curious.

No I wouldn't sue because I'm intelligent enough to know the inherent risks when I set foot out, just as I'm smart enough to read and understand the fishing regulations. Also in Canada I would guess it would never even make it court...

If I choose not to read them(regs)( which I have countless times)or not follow my better judgment when I head out fishing then it's entirely on me...and if someone was to call me in for not following the LETTER OF THE LAW, then that's on me as well...people love to blame the people who caught them, called them in, or you see it all the time on here, the officer doing his job... But the fact remains it's entirely on the guy that"thought he knew better".

[Jigger]

Without hesitation if your using illegal baitfish and I know then 100% I will call...same with bait in minnow traps.

For once I agree with Ravyak... Never use invasive species, dead or alive...If your using a invasive species as bait your a complete idiot.


You'd call f and w if someone uses bait in a minnow trap? Someone get this guy a hero cookie, talk about waste of resources.

[SNAPFisher]

No I wouldn't sue because I'm intelligent enough to know the inherent risks when I set foot out, just as I'm smart enough to read and understand the fishing regulations. Also in Canada I would guess it would never even make it court...

If I choose not to read them(regs)( which I have countless times)or not follow my better judgment when I head out fishing then it's entirely on me...and if someone was to call me in for not following the LETTER OF THE LAW, then that's on me as well...people love to blame the people who caught them, called them in, or you see it all the time on here, the officer doing his job... But the fact remains it's entirely on the guy that"thought he knew better".

Cool! Thanks for answering. I guess your proving the point that I was trying to make.

Regs are no different. There are holes in many things like regs but I would be smart enough to pick and choose what is important. E.g. (1) I see someone bag and drive away with 10 dead walleye - call RAP. (2) I see someone with a dead frozen mackerel on the ice - I don't call RAP and ask them "How's the fishing?" :)

I'm not talking about blaming anyone that called in something either. Just pointing out that common sense can rule the day in any situation including the regs. I would hope anyone on here is intelligent enough to make a good decision.

[Skoaltender]

Kind of off topic but not really, hope I don't get roasted for asking.
Why can't we use live minnows as bait in Alberta? What is the reasoning for it.

[Talking moose]

Kind of off topic but not really, hope I don't get roasted for asking.
Why can't we use live minnows as bait in Alberta? What is the reasoning for it.

Most likely because it would introduce non native species into different waterbodys and water systems. Possibly throwing the ecosystem out of balance.

[Skoaltender]

Most likely because it would introduce non native species into different waterbodys and water systems. Possibly throwing the ecosystem out of balance.

That's what I sort of figured but just wasn't 100% sure of the reasoning as to why we don't and other places do allow it.

[Zip-in-Z]

I just emailed the head office of Alberta Fish and Game to ask them about this pending issue (takes up to 3 days to get a response, so I will be patient). If it truly is illegal to use Mackerel for bait, there are a few stores that I will be reporting, since they sell them all the time in the bait fridge.

Wow ... you guys sure can pivot, however, still looking forward to #F11's F&G's update on the Mackerel Bait "Q" ... won't be surprised if it conflicts with what others have posted.



.

[Kyle]

SNAPFisher IS the judge and the jury. I suppose that's fine if it legitimizes not following our fishing regulations.

Have to feel sorry for the guy who bagged the 10 dead walleye, he thought the regulations shouldn't apply to him either.

Just to compare this to other fines:


Exceeding possession limit 200, plus 50 for each fish in excess of possession limit to a maximum of 10 fish
Fishing in closed waters 200
Possessing live fish without authorization 200
Sportfishing without authorization 100
Angling with more than three hooks on a line 50
Sportfishing with prohibited bait 200


So I guess someone thinks it's more important than yourself, because not having a license is a lesser fine.

How do you know the fine amounts? Are you a CO?

[Talking moose]

How do you know the fine amounts? Are you a CO?

If it is a payable ticket there will be set fines. If it is court appearance required ticket, it is up to the discretion of a judge.

[catnthehat]

Has anybody noticed that a post was made to this thread about bait shops should be charged and it's disappeared?

Is there some moderation going on, or is the forum losing posts?

Nothing has been deleted from this thread
Cat

[Zip-in-Z]

Has anybody noticed that a post was made to this thread about bait shops should be charged and it's disappeared?

Is there some moderation going on, or is the forum losing posts?

I just emailed the head office of Alberta Fish and Game to ask them about this pending issue (takes up to 3 days to get a response, so I will be patient). If it truly is illegal to use Mackerel for bait, there are a few stores that I will be reporting, since they sell them all the time in the bait fridge.



Perhaps F11's post .... nevertheless, the store hasn't broken any rules it's the person using illegal bait while fishin in Alberta, should take the hit.

.

[SNAPFisher]

How do you know the fine amounts? Are you a CO?

Don't worry Kyle, the internet makes Jet a hero in his own eyes. He will look it up and find it for you. I guess a least that is a skill of some sort.

The rest of us with real social skills, common sense, and the ability to make our own decisions will just keep living in danger.

[the11fisherman]

Perhaps F11's post .... nevertheless, the store hasn't broken any rules it's the person using illegal bait while fishin in Alberta, should take the hit.

.

When I look at this thread, my post is still there, which I made about the stores...... here is the reasoning behind "tattling" on some stores. The stores that I have in mind are from other ethnicities and are immigrants. I shop there due to the incredible pricing and honestly great quality. But they probably buy mackerel in bulk (I assume), and they package them in packages that advertise the mackerel as bait. This causes an issue. There are a lot of people that don't read the regulations like it is the Bible, so they miss some stuff. When they get fined for using bait that was explicitly sold as bait by a store, whose fault would it be? I do not think it should be legal to sell mackerel with "Bait" written on the package. Superstore, Costco, Safeway and other stores sell lots of Mackerel, but they do not intend to sell it as bait. They do not sell it with "Bait" written on the bag.

So update on the email to the head guys.........they still haven't gotten back to me. Probably because they are still scratching their heads over it.

[cube]

Yes that's the one. Not sure what happened, it appeared at the end of the thread and then disappeared. Maybe something got cached somewhere and I was looking at an old post, I know RavYaks been complaining his posts have been disappearing.

I was going to add, if it was illegal for stores to sell it, Superstore wouldn't be able to sell fish either. Also the stores used to sell hooks with barbs on when we were barbless.

Anyway, I don't think I've ever seen Mackerel in Cabelas, Bass Pro or TFH. just small herrings and monster herrings. Anybody confirm this?

They all sell anchovies which looks to be illegal to use.

[Stubb]

Can't say that Ill be runnin to the cops or reporting any bait stores if I see a frozen Mackerel being used or sold but I definitely learnt something from this thread. I'm looking forward to what F&W's reply is. thanks for posting.

[Newellknik]

Deja vu all over again ......a total lack of social skills .......IS the
Only requirement for inter web genius .. And a weak sense of
appropriate humility , blessed by superfluous ego . Unconscionable
plagiarism helps to .... They come they go .

Thank a God for the ignore button !

[SNAPFisher]

Deja vu all over again ......a total lack of social skills .......IS the
Only requirement for inter web genius .. And a weak sense of
appropriate humility , blessed by superfluous ego . Unconscionable
plagiarism helps to .... They come they go .

Thank a God for the ignore button !

Post after post after post, deleted and moved due to one member. Even questioning during posting if stuff is being deleted. Wow. I would laugh harder if it wasn't so sad. ...naw, I'll laugh harder :sHa_sarcasticlol::sHa_sarcasticlol:

Newell, there is an ignore feature. It is helpful. I've enjoyed the benefits.

[BiggieB]

When I look at this thread, my post is still there, which I made about the stores...... here is the reasoning behind "tattling" on some stores. The stores that I have in mind are from other ethnicities and are immigrants. I shop there due to the incredible pricing and honestly great quality. But they probably buy mackerel in bulk (I assume), and they package them in packages that advertise the mackerel as bait. This causes an issue. There are a lot of people that don't read the regulations like it is the Bible, so they miss some stuff. When they get fined for using bait that was explicitly sold as bait by a store, whose fault would it be? I do not think it should be legal to sell mackerel with "Bait" written on the package. Superstore, Costco, Safeway and other stores sell lots of Mackerel, but they do not intend to sell it as bait. They do not sell it with "Bait" written on the bag.

So update on the email to the head guys.........they still haven't gotten back to me. Probably because they are still scratching their heads over it.

Again not trying to bust your balls... but are they forcing you to put the mackerel on your hook and fish with it? if not then they aren't doing anything illegal, its up to the individual to understand the rules and regulations. (They could market it as fairy dust, doesn't matter. only thing that they really could get in trouble for is false advertising, which they won't.:sign0161:)

again not trying to be mean just sharing my own views. Like i said before we all are human and we all make honest mistakes from time to time! :)

[RavYak]

Is using Mackerel as bait illegal? Theoretically yes. Will you get ticketed for doing so? Unlikely. What they should do is add mackerel to the allowed baits and then clarify regs that only herring, smelts and mackerel are allowed. That is unless there is a reason unknown to me that Mackerel wasn't originally on the list.

As for stores selling Mackerel as bait, they shouldn't be. It isn't illegal to do so but it is misleading. Same as how it was when barbed hooks were illegal to use.

It is the baits like prussian carp that should be a concern. Heck they should get rid of allowing people to collect their own bait all together imo. Catching and using minnows/suckers as bait can spread more parasites and diseases then anything a frozen mackerel could do. If they changed it so that you could only use pre frozen commercial bait it would help avoid multiple issues imo.

[Jigger]

Lol ban people from catching there own bait? if i go to a creek catch some suckers, freeze them and use as bait how is that any different from some guy catching mackeral somewhere and shipping it here for bait? Has there ever been a documented case of fisherman spreading disease by catching native minmow species and using as bait?

Some people just love controlling others and usually that leads to stupid unnecessary bannings. (spear hunting as an example)

[iliketrout]

Looks to me like there is a contradiction between the regs and the act...so if you're relying on the regs you may be taking a chance getting a fine as ridiculous as it is. For the record I think this is insane...although I find herring to be superior to mackerel, it's nice to have a variety every now and then.

From the regs (http://albertaregulations.ca/pdfs/fishing-regs/General-Sportfishing-Regulations.pdf)

Fishing with Bait
Bait – the definition of bait (see page 19) includes, but is not restricted to:
corn, cheese, marshmallows, meat, maggots, meal worms, earthworms,
wax worms, gammarus shrimp, leeches, terrestrial insects, the larvae,
pupae or adults of aquatic insects (e.g., stonefly, mayfly, caddis fly), bait
fish, parts of fish, fish eggs, scented baits, power baits and all additives
that scent or artificial baits and lures to which flavouring has been added to
attract fish.

Fishing with Bait Fish
Bait Fish means any of the following:
l suckers (family Catostomidae)
l sticklebacks (family Gasterosteidae)
l trout-perch (Percopsis omiscomaycus)
l Iowa darter (Etheostoma exile)
l minnows (family Cyprinidae), except carp, goldfish and the western silvery minnow.

Bait Fish may be used in waters that do not have bait bans or bait fish
restrictions. Where fishing with bait fish is prohibited, other baits including
smelts, herring, gammarus shrimp and dead fish eggs (e.g., preserved
“salmon eggs”) may be used, provided a bait ban is not in effect for that
water body

So nowhere in the REGS does it state mackerel are not allowed., and I would even go further and say that the way the paragraph is written, that it could say "other baits, including, but not limited to,"

However, by the act, it's pretty clear that only certain species are allowed.

Alberta Fishery Regulations, 1998: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-246/page-2.html?txthl=herring#s-19

any fish as bait, other than dead bait fish, dead smelt, dead herring, dead shrimp, dead fish eggs or the skin, fins or eyes of game fish caught by angling.

The last revision of the act was in 1998 and I'm pretty sure I've been checked using mackerel and milk fish by CO's and they haven't said anything to me. So I think the risk is low, but probably not worth it. I'll stick to herring and smelt. If I see anyone using anything else, I'll probably mention it to them so they can make the choice on their own, but I definitely won't be wasting RAP's time with it.

Very interested to hear the11fisherman's official reply.

[Dewey Cox]

They should ban people from catching their own fish.
Solve all these problems.

[huntsfurfish]

They should ban people from catching their own fish.
Solve all these problems.

That may eventually happen.

[the11fisherman]

[QUOTE=iliketrout;3397352

Very interested to hear the11fisherman's official reply.[/QUOTE]

Sadly still no reply. It has been three business days now.....so either they ignored the message as something of no importance, are overrun with identical emails from hundreds of fisherman:sHa_sarcasticlol: or they are still scratching their heads over the subject.

I promise to let you all know when they finally reply.

Tight lines.

[Zip-in-Z]

Sadly still no reply. It has been three business days now.....so either they ignored the message as something of no importance, are overrun with identical emails from hundreds of fisherman:sHa_sarcasticlol: or they are still scratching their heads over the subject.

I promise to let you all know when they finally reply.

Tight lines.

72 posts and 2365 views later, it all stared with this pic .... is Chub Mackerel legal or illegal to use for bait in Alberta.

Hoping you get a reply soon ... otherwise the Mrs. will be eating my Mackerel for dinner.

Z-z

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a515/ZIP-IN-Z/P1080010_zps8n50sfxw.jpg

[the11fisherman]

At least they won't go to waste.

Unlike the dog food I bought for my minnow traps. Anybody got a use for a bag of unopened dog food?

Get a dog.





Sorry. I couldn't resist.

[anthony5]

Sadly still no reply. It has been three business days now.....so either they ignored the message as something of no importance, are overrun with identical emails from hundreds of fisherman:sHa_sarcasticlol: or they are still scratching their heads over the subject.

I promise to let you all know when they finally reply.

Tight lines.

I am going to bet dollars to doughnuts that they are still scratching their heads:test:. Smelts, Herring, Anchovies, Mackerel, Suckers, all dead bait and pose no risk but are not written in the act so could be re writing what is acceptable or what is not, or as you say maybe not worth their time with something that seems trivial as Mackerel are a salt water species as are Herring and Smelts.

[kevinhits]

72 posts and 2365 views later, it all stared with this pic .... is Chub Mackerel legal or illegal to use for bait in Alberta.

Hoping you get a reply soon ... otherwise the Mrs. will be eating my Mackerel for dinner.

Z-z

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a515/ZIP-IN-Z/P1080010_zps8n50sfxw.jpg

I use mackeral once in a blue moon at Badger or Newel....and will continue to do so....and herring, smelts, minnows as I see fit, till a game warden tells me different:)

[SNAPFisher]

I use mackeral once in a blue moon at Badger or Newel....and will continue to do so....and herring, smelts, minnows as I see fit, till a game warden tells me different:)

I've been with many a group checked by COs that had all sorts of bait not on this so called list. No issues.

To those others that are really concerned about it, I found a good read for ya:

https://www.amazon.ca/Dont-Sweat-Small-Stuff-Its/dp/0786881852

[Crankbait]

caught a 25 lb yesterday on a piece of sardine the size of a baby's thumb.

52nd b-day present.

squid is good too

[Looper]

At least they won't go to waste.

Unlike the dog food I bought for my minnow traps. Anybody got a use for a bag of unopened dog food?

The Brooks Office informed you it was legal.

I'm curious why you dont just run with that?

Looper

[Looper]

Um, let me think...

Many said it wasn't legal, the act says it's not legal, and I have it in writing that it's not legal and...

Brooks say it's legal.

Well, I dunno what dope they smoke in Brooks... but
unless I was fishing near Brooks and knew the C/Os personally and had it in writing from them....

In an imperfect system where the enforcement clearly doesn't know their own rules, then what's written and the majority win. Highly likely that C/O won't admit he doesn't know what he's talking about when in front of a judge, and highly unlikely the judge will believe you if you tell him otherwise.

What you have in writing is someones interpretation. Just like you, me, and the office in Brooks.

What kind of dope they smoke in Brooks? Pretty childish. I have met them both. Upstanding citizens.

Looper

[cribfisher]

One thing to take into account is the fact that the regulations use the common term herring which is the Clupeidae family consisting of over 200 types of true herring as well as sardines and anchovies and a lot of other spiecies. Doesn't help with mackerel which is the Scombridae family but by using a common name and not the scientific name makes it a very grey area.

[Zip-in-Z]

Posted on Nov 24, 2016

So update on the email to the head guys.........they still haven't gotten back to me. Probably because they are still scratching their heads over it.


11Fish .... any updates from Fish & Wildlife yet ?

.

[the11fisherman]

11Fish .... any updates from Fish & Wildlife yet ?

.

Still not so much as a please wait email. They must really be scratching their heads or not care. If they ever do send me an email in return, all of you will be the first people to find out.

[EZM]

Sorry to wade into this thread so late .......... but here's an important point to consider ...

The real reason the SRD and Federal fisheries regulate the type of bait fish you use isn't that they fear a dead frozen salt water fish miraculously coming to life and spawning in freshwater ....... it's because some parasites/pathogens/bacteria/etc...that may be present in the dead/frozen/saltwater baitfish can survive despite being frozen and can cause unwanted consequences to the watershed.

To say "it's stupid" or "doesn't make sense" isn't considering this risk.

[cube]

Sorry to wade into this thread so late .......... but here's an important point to consider ...

The real reason the SRD and Federal fisheries regulate the type of bait fish you use isn't that they fear a dead frozen salt water fish miraculously coming to life and spawning in freshwater ....... it's because some parasites/pathogens/bacteria/etc...that may be present in the dead/frozen/saltwater baitfish can survive despite being frozen and can cause unwanted consequences to the watershed.

To say "it's stupid" or "doesn't make sense" isn't considering this risk.

EXACTLY!

This is also the main reason they do not do allot of stocking except into land locked pot hole lakes.

In Alberta's past our stocking has proven to be a VERY effective way of spreading pathogens.

[Zip-in-Z]

Sorry to wade into this thread so late .......... but here's an important point to consider ...

The real reason the SRD and Federal fisheries regulate the type of bait fish you use isn't that they fear a dead frozen salt water fish miraculously coming to life and spawning in freshwater ....... it's because some parasites/pathogens/bacteria/etc...that may be present in the dead/frozen/saltwater baitfish can survive despite being frozen and can cause unwanted consequences to the watershed.

To say "it's stupid" or "doesn't make sense" isn't considering this risk.


EXACTLY!

This is also the main reason they do not do allot of stocking except into land locked pot hole lakes.

In Alberta's past our stocking has proven to be a VERY effective way of spreading pathogens.

EZM & Cube Tks, your posts make good sense. The advice to all who read or contributed is NOT to use Mackerel as bait fish in Alberta water. Perhaps #11Fish will still get a reply from F&W HQ. confirming the foregoing.

Time to give this thread a rest!
.

[burbotman]

EZM & Cube Tks, your posts make good sense. The advice to all who read or contributed is NOT to use Mackerel as bait fish in Alberta water. Perhaps #11Fish will still get a reply from F&W HQ. confirming the foregoing.

Time to give this thread a rest!
.

What parasites/pathogens do Mackeral have that herring do not?

I don't buy this, any thing to back this science up?

I fully agree that as the regs are written Mackeral Cannot be used lawfully as bait in AB waters That said I believe it is an omission of use not a prohibition of use.

[SNAPFisher]

Time to give this thread a rest!
.

Maybe for you but hold my beer and watch what happens next.

:party0052:

[cube]

What parasites/pathogens do Mackeral have that herring do not?.

Red sea bream iridoviral disease is one such disease I believe.

There are no doubt many more but who has time and money to test all the combinations and permutations. Perhaps better safe than sorry.

It was reasons like this that some places have gone to using only certified bait. They certainly looked at brining that here to Alberta as well. If you recall a couple of years ago there was an online questionnaire and they were asking about support for bringing in a certified bait regulation.

[ctown]

Have been at Wabamun with all sorts of different superstore bought fish for bait. Have sat and talked with CO's about it and not once did they even bat an eye at what I was using. Though we were kinda crazy because of the size of some of them but no problems or issues. Had it happen multiple times by different CO's, and a few of those times were when barbs were still illegal and they looked for everything to fine you for.

Would like to see what comes of this.

[Zip-in-Z]

Ctown ... many tks for updating, I imagine 11Fish has never rec'd a reply from F/W HQ, can't understand why they don't respond.

Otherwise ... the only ice out here is in my tall glass & life here in the Desert is about keeping Mr. Hummer, happy!

D.


http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a515/ZIP-IN-Z/Copy%203%20of%20P1080554_zpsjnlnx3no.jpg

[WayneChristie]

Here you go:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-246/FullText.html

interesting read indeed, guess I can stretch my minnow trap a little!
25 (1) No person shall fish with a minnow trap unless

(a) it is visibly and legibly marked with the person’s name and address; or

(b) it does not exceed 60 m in length or 30 cm in width, depth or diameter.

[Salavee]

Here's another option .. perfectly legal and very effective ..
http://baitrix.com/fishing-products/rigged-and-ready-whole-baits/

[SNAPFisher]

Ctown ... many tks for updating, I imagine 11Fish has never rec'd a reply from F/W HQ, can't understand why they don't respond.

Otherwise ... the only ice out here is in my tall glass & life here in the Desert is about keeping Mr. Hummer, happy!

D.


http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a515/ZIP-IN-Z/Copy%203%20of%20P1080554_zpsjnlnx3no.jpg

^^^ That hummer doesn't look very happy. Maybe up the sugar content in it's food :)

[buckman]

Anyone have an update on this issue?

[Zip-in-Z]

Surprised to see my old thread pop-up ... was wondering the same.

Also found the original pic that was gone in Photobucket .... here it is.

11Fish ... you still around any news to share ?


D.


https://i.imgur.com/phopRjI.jpg

[buckman]

I have used many different baits for pike including chub mackerel.I intend to phone F&W this week for some answers.

Cant see why as has been stated you cant use any saltwater species along with the listed ones.

[buckman]

I got a response from my e-mail to F&W. You can use other species of dead saltwater fish as bait. Including,anchovies,mackerel and scad.I will try and post the actual e-mail when I can figure out how to do it.(I am somewhat computer compromised)

[Zip-in-Z]

I got a response from my e-mail to F&W. You can use other species of dead saltwater fish as bait. Including,anchovies,mackerel and scad.I will try and post the actual e-mail when I can figure out how to do it.(I am somewhat computer compromised)


Tks for pursuing & sharing with us.

D.

[Smoky buck]

I got a response from my e-mail to F&W. You can use other species of dead saltwater fish as bait. Including,anchovies,mackerel and scad.I will try and post the actual e-mail when I can figure out how to do it.(I am somewhat computer compromised)

If this is the case maybe there needs to be a push for the regs to clarify this so there is less confusion