.338 Federal opinions

[Boogerfart]

I recently had the pleasure of acquiring a Savage model 11 heavy barrel chambered in .338 Federal, I really like it thus far but since it was only introduced in 2006 there's a shortage of information out there on it. I'm interested in experimenting with heavier bullets in the 250gr. range but there's not as much load data as I'd like to see. What are you're thoughts, opinions, experiences with it? what's your favorite load?

[purgatory.sv]

Is it the hog hunter?

In the references I have I see no 250gr projectiles.

[stob]

210gr is the sweet spot for this round in terms of all around balance in a load for the Federal338 - had one in a Kimber Montana that t i should not of sold. if memory serves me it worked very well on elk

[Flight01]

250 is a bit too heavy. 210 is great but if you really want a reload that's a bit heavy try 225 grain hornady interbonds.

I agree with stob
210 is where it's at for the 338fed

I think a nice handload with a 210 partition sounds just right.

[bb356]

Another cartridge that will go the way of the dodo ... .358 is another unsung hero ... hope you find the right load ...

[Boogerfart]

I do indeed have the Hog Hunter, this all started when a buddy gave me some 250gr. cast .338 projectiles, he was keeping them inside 3" at 300 yards in the same rifle.

[Boogerfart]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?190467-Mold-for-338-Federal

I liked what this guy was doing but he hasn't posted the results for testing past 50 yards.
Has anyone on here tried cast in their .338?

[purgatory.sv]

No.

If you believe ask for the recipe.

I have found no cast information.



Now for something complete different.

Your hog hunter has good tolerances…

I prefer the 200 and 180 gr projectiles.

[Boogerfart]

Why buy a 338 to shoot 180 to 200gr bullets when a 30-06 can do it at the same velocity but with better BC? the slightly better accuracy won't make a difference at average hunting distances.

[Ranch11]

I like the 338 federal. One of my favourites. Mine sits in a sako 85, shoots the 200 grain fusions into itty bitty groups. And absolutely flattens anything I've hit with it. I also use it as a wolf rifle if we think they're gonna be in the area.

[cody c]

Why buy a 338 to shoot 180 to 200gr bullets when a 30-06 can do it at the same velocity but with better BC? the slightly better accuracy won't make a difference at average hunting distances.

You should stick to your ought six, or better yet get a .270 for that.


As for the OP, the .338 seems to get exceptional efficiency out of a short round, and a great round for a short action short barrel lightweight bush rifle that still carries energy out to 300-400 yards for moose deer or elk, though lots of knock down for close range predators.
I like the sound of 210-230 grain boat tails with reloading, heavier weight for reloading hotter loads, it has the potential for an exceptional all round bush gun that one could really get attached to.

The ought six might retain a bit more speed at further distances, but if you understand distance and drop your not really compromising much, while having other positive traits.

[wind drift]

A buddy of mine who is color-blind and has a hard time following a blood trail uses a .338 Federal with the hope of having easy recoveries. He's not making up for poor shooting ability, by any means, but just thinks that the bigger bullet is better for him and he prefers a short action rifle. I can't fault his thinking.

[elkdump]

The .338 Federal should absolutely devastating and deadly compared to a 30-06 or 8mm Mauser or .358 Winchester all loaded with similar weight and constructed bullets,,,,
:thinking-006:

[Dean2]

The 338 Federal is a great all round cartridge and it is fully capable of 1000 yards shots. Why it gets tagged as a short range round mystifies me. It fires a 200 grain bullet 150 fps faster than either the 30-06 or 308.

It is also a great low recoil, short action round, perfect for making light weight rifles. It is very popular in Europe, I am surprised it hasn't caught on more here. It isn't a 338 Win Mag but it doesn't kick like one either.

[elkdump]

The 338 Federal is a great all round cartridge and it is fully capable of 1000 yards shots. Why it gets tagged as a short range round mystifies me. It fires a 200 grain bullet 150 fps faster than either the 30-06 or 308.

It is also a great low recoil, short action round, perfect for making light weight rifles. It is very popular in Europe, I am surprised it hasn't caught on more here. It isn't a 338 Win Mag but it doesn't kick like one either.

Impressive ! I thinking I will neck down a .338 Federal to .30 cal or maybe even 7mm or 6.5mm ,

Now THAT will be impressive :thinking-006:

[Flight01]

If I didn't already have a bunch of rifles I would be in there market for two.
One a 260 rem, likely a tikka
The other a 338 federal, likely a tikka as well, likely laminated.

I'm not a long range hunter. Only one kill past 300 yards.

Most common range for kills are between 75 and 200 yards for me.

My practical range is 300, my practiced range is 500+

There is a hundred ways to slice and dice it but these two above cartridges are at the top of my list.

[Dean2]

Impressive ! I thinking I will neck down a .338 Federal to .30 cal or maybe even 7mm or 6.5mm ,

Now THAT will be impressive :thinking-006:

You are joking I gather? The 338 Federal is a necked up 308 Winchester. The 30 cal and 7 mm (7-08) thing has been done and so has the 6.5 for that matter (260 Rem).

[dogslayer403]

The 338 Federal is a great all round cartridge and it is fully capable of 1000 yards shots. Why it gets tagged as a short range round mystifies me. It fires a 200 grain bullet 150 fps faster than either the 30-06 or 308.

It is also a great low recoil, short action round, perfect for making light weight rifles. It is very popular in Europe, I am surprised it hasn't caught on more here. It isn't a 338 Win Mag but it doesn't kick like one either.

Hey Dean agree its a great round ( theoretically for me ) for sure ive had lots of time with a 338-06 but not the federal im just not seeing the numbers your claiming seems generous? Anywhere I look im seeing the 30-06 and 338 fed on par or within 50fps of eachother with a 200g.
What powder are you using to get em rolling that quick im genuinely curious might have to look into one

[Dean2]

BULLET WEIGHT
210 GR. SFT SCIR
Starting Loads Maximum Loads
Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam.
C.O.L.
Grs.
Vel. (ft/s)
Pressure
Grs.
Vel. (ft/s)
Pressure
Hodgdon LVR .338" 2.820" 45.0 2,468 48,800 PSI 49.0C 2,622 56,400 PSI

Powder is LRV. Published max is still 6,000 PSI below max 62,000 psi limit. You can get them up to 2700 with no pressure in most guns with a 22" barrel. It will also move a 215 grain bullet at 2700 FPS and that is something the 30-06 won't come close to.

You can also get good speed out of AA2230 and H335. These powders also give very good velocity with the 200 grain bullets.

[catnthehat]

I would like to know how a case of the same diameter but shorter in length is magically faster than one with more powder capacity , with the same bullet weight , especially when in the 30 caliber cartridges the heavier bullets do better in the '06 than the 308
Cat

[Dean2]

I would like to know how a case of the same diameter but shorter in length is magically faster than one with more powder capacity , with the same bullet weight , especially when in the 30 caliber cartridges the heavier bullets do better in the '06 than the 308
Cat

We are comparing shooting 30 caliber bullets out of the 06 versus 338 out of the 308 cased 338 Federal. Hodgdons load data, as well as my chrono data supports that the 338 Federal will move a 210 and 215 grain bullet much faster than the 30-06 will move a 30 calibre of the same weight. I have never been able to get 2700 fps out of a 215 or 200 in an 06.

[Boogerfart]

Are there any other manuals that say the smaller case pushes the same weight of bullet out of the same twist barrel faster? from a purely scientific standpoint what would cause this? I could see the larger surface area of the 338 allows for more efficient use of pressure but I tend to think that the increased friction of the larger surface area would reduce the advantage would it not? Or does the skinnier bullet have more friction since it's longer? I'm not trying to be critical- I'm honestly curious.

[NCC]

Im not a physicist but I believe that if the same pressure (~55 000 psi) is acting on a larger surface the total force should be greater. The same as how 2000 psi hydraulic system pressurizing a 6" ram will lift more than the same system pressurizing a 2" ram. This may cause the .338 bullet to launch quicker than a .30 bullet of the same weight but I also think that the advantage would be quickly neutralized down range by the excessive drag of the larger bullet and the .30 would easily outrun the .338. Just a guess.

[catnthehat]

We are comparing shooting 30 caliber bullets out of the 06 versus 338 out of the 308 cased 338 Federal. Hodgdons load data, as well as my chrono data supports that the 338 Federal will move a 210 and 215 grain bullet much faster than the 30-06 will move a 30 calibre of the same weight. I have never been able to get 2700 fps out of a 215 or 200 in an 06.

My bad I thought it had turned to the 338/06 against the 338 Federal
Cat

[Salavee]

My bad I thought it had turned to the 338/06 against the 338 Federal
Cat

..just a matter of time ?

[Boogerfart]

Im not a physicist but I believe that if the same pressure (~55 000 psi) is acting on a larger surface the total force should be greater. The same as how 2000 psi hydraulic system pressurizing a 6" ram will lift more than the same system pressurizing a 2" ram. This may cause the .338 bullet to launch quicker than a .30 bullet of the same weight but I also think that the advantage would be quickly neutralized down range by the excessive drag of the larger bullet and the .30 would easily outrun the .338. Just a guess.

This is exactly what I was thinking- plus the fatter bullet would be shorter so the area in contact with the rifling would be smaller leading to lower initial friction.
I would also surmise that at average hunting ranges of 300 yards or less the increased drag wouldn't be a big factor but this is all a educated guess, I really need to spend more time at the range...

[Dean2]

Are there any other manuals that say the smaller case pushes the same weight of bullet out of the same twist barrel faster? from a purely scientific standpoint what would cause this? I could see the larger surface area of the 338 allows for more efficient use of pressure but I tend to think that the increased friction of the larger surface area would reduce the advantage would it not? Or does the skinnier bullet have more friction since it's longer? I'm not trying to be critical- I'm honestly curious.

As bullet diameter increases you can get slightly faster bullet speeds with the same max pressure. This is true through out the range from 22 to 458 calibre. So for example a 375 will fire a 270 grain bullet faster than a 338 will fire a 270 grain bullet, at the same 62,000 psi. The case capacity has some bearing on max velocity in both the 375 and 338, but assuming relatively similar capacity this will hold true. (Use the 338 wm and 375 Ruger for comparison, they both operate in the 62,000 psi range)

It will also hold true even if the 375 actually has smaller case capacity, within reason, that you can still get the load to 62,000 psi with a proper powder. So the final consideration, a smaller case working at higher pressures and shooting a larger calibre bullet will for sure fire the same weight faster, just from the effect of the higher pressure.

In the case of cartridges of the same calibre, 338-06 versus 338 federal, the 338-06 will launch the same weight bullet faster, even at the same pressure, as the larger case allows more powder to be burned and more gas VOLUME to be produced at the same 62.000 psi. More volume of gas at the same pressure will create higher velocities using the same bullet weight and diameter.

If you play around with a quick load program you can readily see this relationship of pressure to bore diameter.

[Boogerfart]

Excellent! So now what effect does projectile length have on accuracy? The 6.5x55 with its long for caliber bullet is well known for its accuracy but is it because of its inherent stability or simply better BC? I can't help but think a shorter projectile would be easier to stabilize but is quicker to succumb to drag and crosswinds. If there was any kind of imperfection in the projectile would a shorter or longer bullet of the same weight be effected more if all other factors are equal?

[Boogerfart]

anybody?

[Dean2]

Ballistics is a tremendously complicated and multi variant entity. I would take a very long time to provide truly definitive and well rounded answers to the questions you are asking. I suggest you do some reading on your own. A very good place to start 6MMBR. There are extensive articles covering the topics you are interested in.

http://www.6mmbr.com/techarticles.html

http://www.6mmbr.com/heavybullets.html

[Boogerfart]

The 6mmBR site is pretty good- the write up on heavy bullets was injoyable to read as they made a real attempt to keep things logic based.
As for the question of inherent stability in short vs long bullets my Googlefu has turned up nothing satisfactory. I've found some useful tools;

http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

but never a actual answer which surprised me to be honest, I know it would be a fairly simple thing to work on, all we'd need is a 260 Rem with a 10 twist barrel 22" long and a 338 Fed with a 10 twist barrel 22" long, a heavy 6.5 bullet and a light 338 bullet, (around 175gr seems feasible) and then work up a load for both to reach the same fps. Then we carefully drill a small, off center hole in each bullet at the same point removing the exact same amount of material and test fire a series of rounds from each rifle to get a basic idea.
BUT. This all takes time and money, neither of which I have in abundance so I'm hoping others have already tried it. I honestly thought it was a simple question, I was surprised I couldn't find someone else's study on it.
If some one else has better Googlefu than me or perhaps wants to make a educated guess I'd enjoy hearing it. I'm not trying to change the world, just talking shop here.
Also- if you have a 260 you'd like to donate to science please let me know, I'll share what I learn. :)

[Boogerfart]

Another neat one.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/calculating-bullet-rpm-spin-rates-stability/