View Full Version : #1 issue of concern to hunters in Alberta today?
02-17-2007, 01:41 PM
What do you think is the NUMBER ONE issue of concern to hunters in Alberta today?
Robin in Rocky and headed to the AF&GA conference next week.
Natives and Metis and the amount that is harvested by them every year. I would like to see these animals registered so at least we know what kind of numbers are being taken.
02-17-2007, 03:55 PM
The decisiuons made on wildlife by people who don't get out of their desk chairs. And don't listen to the people (hunters) who really know how much wildlife there really is out there.
02-17-2007, 04:07 PM
Liberals and tree huggers taking away our season.
02-17-2007, 04:21 PM
Poachers killing animals indescriminately and with (IMO) a lack of regard for the weak enforcement due to an under funded force
Re: #1 issue of concern to hunters in Alberta today?
02-17-2007, 04:27 PM
all of the above. and can think of a lot of issues we hunters should be concerned about.
...but #1 issue I'd almost have to say is the loss of our privilege/right to hunt. and by this I mean AR groups and the like getting governments to ban the hunting of certain species or seasons etc, etc. this I think would happen a lot quicker than habitat loss or the reduction in game numbers by metis/natives (although both are sore points especially the metis/natives).
we dudes should be banding together a lot more than we are or this is going to be a sad reality.
02-17-2007, 05:25 PM
Very tough one to pin down to a main issue....however many of the problems stem from a lack of funding for SRD to do all the facets of their job properly. Additional funding and staff wouldn't be the cure all, but there sure are a lot of problems it would alleviate.
02-17-2007, 06:00 PM
Anti's...I never realized the misconception there was out there about hunting until this year. Being from northwestern ontario everyone hunted and fished for something at one point in their lives. It was like a right of passage for everyone, girls and guys, and at young ages. Our parents taught us to respect nature and it was used as time for family bonding. Even if people chose not to hunt when they were adults no one is against it there, they realize the value and know that hunters aren't out there shooting everything that moved just to kill. But out here...holy crap! If people ask why we got the breed of dogs we did, and we tell them we hunt with them, if they are anti's man do we hear it!! Me especially because I'm female....people really think it's wrong that a chick is out there in the bush with a gun! I've been told I have screws loose bc I hunt....:rolleyes
The power that anti's have is amazing.....10 anti's can shut down a season or species, but 1000 hunters lobbying for rights don't make a dent to get that season back. This is all new to me so I don't know what can be done but I sure hope that with responsible hunting and education we can change a few opinions. We have changed many friends minds by simply taking them out with us....it sure was fun to hear them say how cool it was to be out chasing birds with the dogs alone in the wild while they eat with us over fresh meat!
02-17-2007, 06:08 PM
Thats the one that concerns me the most. Hope they can contain the spread but deer numbers are high in lots of areas close to the CWD area
02-17-2007, 06:38 PM
In my oppinion it will be the day the landowner can lease his land out like they do in the US.
02-17-2007, 08:32 PM
I think one of the biggest concerns to hunters today is that there aren't enough kids getting introduced to the sport. Sure, everyone of us who already hunt are going to take our kids hunting and hopefully get them enthused, but in terms of the population as a whole these numbers are very small. I can think of many guys my age (mid 30's) I know that maybe have Dads who hunted yet have no interest themselves. These guys are now having kids of there own who will never be taken out on a duck hunt, never catch a fish, certainly never learn how to shoot a gun. I've talked to my Dad about this and he always says "when he was a kid everyone hunted". Even the kids whose Dads didn't hunt would go with the neighbor's Dad, so most kids at least got some exposure to it. There's too many kids growing up today that are only interested in video games, TV ect., and the only things they learn about hunting and the outdoors come from walt disney and negative exposure in the media. I don't know what the solution is, but I do know there's safety in numbers, and as hunters, as our numbers dwindle (per capita) it becomes a serious threat to our sport and lifestyle.
02-17-2007, 10:35 PM
more indirectly, i think it has a lot to do with people not having to dig thyere own spuds and gardens, kill there own meat and even wash the dishes that they make.
we are learning to be totally dependant on the grocery store to be self suffient
if you look at hunters, (in general) they are providing for the table and who else would willingly spend the time we do, to do it
bottom line, paying money is easier than work, and paying someone else is easier on my back.
that stream caught trout tasted better when it had 'my' hook in it, than the jelly-belly trout from the freezer dept at the store.
02-17-2007, 10:57 PM
Nubes..is on track...it's time we all hunt and fish by the same rules...
Northern Hunting Mom
02-17-2007, 11:04 PM
Many things are reason to be concerned. I do notice that the ingrained independence that most hunters have makes it difficult to unite. One type of hunter does not like another or one group is not willing to muse a voice if another type of hunting is in jeopardy.
I believe that the changing lifestyles of home life can be a great deterrent to getting kids into hunting and fishing. A divorce divides a home and most hunting advocates are the males. They usually have the limited access to their kids and if the separation is bitter, it can hinder the hunter's chance to take their kids out. Also, not all single moms are against hunting so much but they just don't have or make the time. A dead-beat dad makes it difficult for a family to have time for leisure too. The single parent is just too busy working to keep the roof over their heads and the lights on.
I think access to hunting land is secondary but if it becomes difficult to find land to hunt then people who may be willing to hunt cannot find out where they can hunt and quickly lose interest.
Also, the adage, "The hand that rocks the cradle" is true. Since women are the ones who usually take that role then they have to be more than passive about hunting. This may mean that the dads have to watch the kids while the mom goes out for a weekend hunt or course. Where I am, women often go hunting and the dads stay home or elders watch the kids while both go out together. A busy life has to make allowances for both parents to keep youth interested in hunting.
02-17-2007, 11:35 PM
02-17-2007, 11:41 PM
Nubes..is on track...it's time we all hunt and fish by the same rules...
It's way overdue.
Beyond Metis/Native rights and Poaching
02-18-2007, 02:17 AM
My number one concern is loss of hunting opportunities due to high numbers of allocations given to outfitters.
Outfitting allocations should not reach 15 to 23 percent of tags allocated for a given species in any WMU, but in South Western Alberta this is the case. What I have noticed now is that most resident hunting opportunities have decreased, in some cases residents are not welcome most notably on some of the larger ranches.
If residents have to be put on draw to manage a species then so should non-residents and this should be limited to a maximum of 10 percent of the tags allocated such that non-resident allocations interfere minimally with resident access to tags.
Draws are great for producing trophy animals but they greatly reduce the relationship of the hunter to the land owner due to the number of years between obtaining tags. For the outfitted hunter this is not the case, the outfitter maintains his contact with the land owner year after year, suddenly he's got full access and the resident has limited to none. This "problem" has been the biggest threat to my being able to hunt over the last 10 years.
Nubes..is on track...it's time we all hunt and fish by the same rules...It will never happen way overdue or not.
Over populated areas of deer in a given area let the puplic know more tags in a reg season .Dont wait untill feb etc.
02-18-2007, 11:16 AM
Nubes..is on track...it's time we all hunt and fish by the same rules...
60,000 metis eligible to hunt in Alberta alone, god knows how many treaty. All the poaching in Canada wouldn't add up to the staggering number of animals taken by so called subsistence hunters and no way to count. :rolleyes
02-18-2007, 11:28 AM
Excessive firearm laws have discouraged new and old hunters alike to aquire firearms for hunting. Access especially in the south has been difficult in recent years. On a positive note there is more deer around than ever now.
02-18-2007, 11:32 AM
Tuc, it's been pounded to death. But, since you brought it up, what is the staggering #? Or are you just assuming as in the past.
Not enough teenagers and 20-something's hunting and fishing.
If their numbers were higher a lot of the other problems would dissapear. There's safety in numbers, especially when dealing with an elected gov.
When my son was in high school there was only him and one other young man that hunted. We're in a rural area, so the other kids thought it was cool, and asked about his success, some were maybe even envious, but there was only the two of them in a class of prob. 40 or so.
If that number was more like 18 or 20, access wouldn't be as much of a problem, outfitters wouldn't be getting so many tags, and metis/indian persons would be given allocations, not free reign.
02-18-2007, 12:18 PM
CWD, game farms, hand gun hunting, getting more memberships.
02-18-2007, 12:27 PM
Suka I had the same problem. Only 1 other kid in my graduating class that hunted. We still hunt together but the numbers just are not there.
Access and habitat destruction. Emphasis on access getiing tougher every year.
02-18-2007, 03:46 PM
What JRS said.
Resonable access is a pain in southern Alberta and getting worse by the day.
02-18-2007, 07:17 PM
Lack of funding for SRD to do their jobs properly. It amazes me that this province is so rich off our natural resources but so little is put back in the system.
I work closely with SRD and can't beleive the funding and budgets they get...it embrasses me as an Albertan.
02-18-2007, 07:23 PM
CBR hunter you are a young lady that likes to hunt and for you and all other ladies who like to hunt I say GOOD FOR YOU and stick to the stuff. For you all I bend the knee and take my hat to you. I also praise you and all hunters who hunt birds with dogs for I fell (just my OPINION...my FEELINGS) that a bird dog ought to used for what it was breed to do. I feel it is more cruel to let that talent go to waste.
I have a retired racing Greyhound and many people that we have meet hail us as heros because we saved a dog from certain death. Of all the dogs on this plant the Greyhound lives only if it runs, if it dosn't run it is death. That was true up to 1985...now they have adoption programs...yet many still die.
Anyway the point I want to make is that Greyhounds do like to run, some people say boy how do these racing places know that Greyhounds like to race or run fast...does the dog tell them and they go ha,ha,ha. To be honest yea some do tell you they like to run by their actions. My Greyhound ears go up when he is ready to run or he is in a excided mood and wants to play. It is run -hide- and catch me if you can. Almost 6 years later I saw him make a 11 foot broad jump last fall over lumber I had laid out on the ground for my deck. He started from a dead stop took one leap landed, one leap again and cleared all the boards. We took him to a few Greyhound greet and meets and we put a few in a inclosed grassy ice rink he he ran his heart out and a Greyhoung crossed his path and he jumped that dog and landed in a dead stop where the rest of the dogs were.
Do I support Greyhound racing, no not really...I don't like how they are couped up for many long hours in 4x3 cages. Plus a few other things. But Greyhounds were breed to run and a better way for them to show there talent is to go courseing. The kind that you can see on TV.
02-18-2007, 08:04 PM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Access and habitat destruction. Emphasis on access is getting tougher every year.<hr></blockquote> How true. Last year I made two phone calls to this one resident and left two messages and no response, tried again...nothing. So I gave up on him. So I went elsewhere and I found a sign that said for permission phone this number, so I left a message, as I was out hunting on AFGA land, I came across a bull moose lying down some 65yards away and since I couldn't shoot him, I thought I would see how much closer I could get so that I could get a picture. So that I could post it here...but as I was just about to start out the cell phone rang and well the moose stood up and it was gone. Anyhow the man phoned back and said I couldn't go on the land because there were two other hunters on it. He says he owns land as well but for the next few years he will not let any hunters on it....because this one young man asked permission to hunt a mule deer on the property; the farmer said yes but the young man started to bring more friends on without permission over a couple of years and they killed off all the mulies(wmu334). Now the WT deer moved in and the farmer wont let anyone hunt untill the white population get bigger. He also told me that the farmer next to him won't give permission anymore as well. Why? because two hunters went on his property without permission and killed a big mule deer buck, cut the head off and left the body behind. They tried to catch them but they were gone.
As for habitat destruction...well I won't go there this time.
Liberals and NDP voters
02-18-2007, 08:26 PM
Liberal and NDP voters actualy believing that more government is better and will make them safer and happier.
I second we need more youth involved.
02-18-2007, 08:36 PM
Perty tough to say that there is a #1 issue there Duffy. I would think that there would be many, that were already stated, that are right at the top, among many more. For me loss of public hunting grounds due to Prov. parks, landowner issues etc. etc. would be up there for me. Then you throw in 14 year olds before being eligable to hunt with a rifle, outfitter allocations on draw species, IMHA that is extremely flawed. Also I hate how some people think that a few little places of dirt on some crown land, is their personal playground, and shun others for bringing their friends into them, and blah blah blah blah blobbity blah........too many issues.....so little time. I am greatfull for the AFGA having their conferences and what not, so these issues from us outdoorspersons gets brought forward to those that take the issues up.
02-18-2007, 11:45 PM
Well the irony here is amazing, me posting to Duffy given my posts on the AFGA thread, but since you asked and I am an open minded fella, I would say that the anti's and the apathetics are the my main concern
This is not a concern, but it sure would be nice if we could build priority on cows and bulls (moose & elk) at the same time. Takes a long time to get the priority to draw a bull moose tag, sure would be nice if you could mix a cow in there between bulls.
02-20-2007, 12:38 PM
To me More $ for staff and budgets for Fish & Wildlife so they can do a better job of managing the resource is the #1 issue. Many of the concerns raised above could be delt with if F&W could do there job more effectively.
Here is about how I break down the concerns listed above:
5 say access to hunting lands is a problem
4 say "special groups" with "special hunting priviladges"
4 say Anti hunting groups is #1 issue of concern
4 say lack of new (or young) hunters entering the hunting brotherhood is the major problem
2 say Habitat destruction
2 say poor decisions by F&W
3 say more $ is needed by F&W and the last two mentioned (Habitat destruction and poor decisions by F&W) could probably be placed in the group wanting more $ for F&W because with more staff and budgets F&W could do a better job of management decisions. Habitat issues are another thing. Provincial gov't is responsible to Manage wildlife and their habitats but Alberta Conservation Association (ACA a non-government organization) has been given the $ from hunting licences to do much of this work. ACA controls $ for flying wildlife surveys and does not give F&W enough to do a resonable job of it.
Robin in Rocky
02-20-2007, 03:59 PM
Thanks for bringing this posting up, to get comments and concerns.
It is not ironic, this is how we do things at the AFGA. Even if you do not like our organization or do not believe in our organization or whatever, we belive in standing up for you the AB outdoorsman/person.
02-20-2007, 05:35 PM
Lots of good suggestions here. The one that hits me most is access to private land. I admit that this is a completely personal one.
I live in a town and don't know any farmers. I just have to go door knocking and ask. Many are cool, but I get a wee bit frustrated when I get turned down, or see the "No Hunting" posted signs. I smile politely and leave of course, saying nothing, but I have to admit that inside I'm often thinking "So you will take my tax money in subsidies, support programs, disaster relief programs, programs to cover losses from animals eating your crops or predators eating your calves, all the governement money my business would never have a hope in hell of getting, but you won't stoop to let me on your land once in a while. Thanks a lot". Now I KNOW in lots of cases there may be other reasons for what happens, I KNOW most farmers are great. I just think perhaps a few farmers could think about the people that happily support them and give a little back.
02-20-2007, 07:56 PM
Many valid points brought up by people - I can't help but think that better funding of SRD could resolve many of the issues.
Northern Hunting Mom
02-21-2007, 12:08 AM
Perhaps showing up in the off-season with a pair of work gloves or maybe ask if they would like varmint control.
I can understand feeling some angst because of the "hand-outs" farmers get but I'm sure you like eating the fruits of their labours. They do a necessary and hard job. Oh yeah, and they do own the land. It is painful to see all that land you can hunt on and not be able to have access but I cannot say anything bad about them when they say no.
I know you are not writing this with any viciousness or hate so please know, I am not writing this myself in that tone. Its just that I can understand the difficult life a farmer has even with the "hand-outs"
A lot of land in the south is getting bought up by filthy rich Calgarians who build there cabin and shut it down to any access. Not usually frustrated farmers, one or two however that have forgotton what happened last time the elk and deer populations exploded. Public areas get busier every season due to access getting nearly impossible to attain in most private areas as well. I know i wouldn't allow unlimited access on my own land if it had any wildlife but i would allow some (small group every weekend on a first call basis works well on a few ranches i know of). Its a concern down here, i really appreciate the buck for wildlife areas myself. The one area shut down this year was due to garbage dumping, i cleaned it all up and he let me on but they don't remember faces so next year may be tricky (took half a truck load of someone elses crap away). Frustrating.
02-21-2007, 12:16 PM
Not only that jrs but the dutch are moving in down here and flattening the land, removing any tree or bush, then farming right to the fence line. Leaving very little cover for upland birds and deer.
I lost one of my best spots this year ( held pheasants partridge, and sharptail) to a dutch farmer who plowed it all down. Funny thing it is a low spot in the field so it is just going to fill with water and be unfarmable anyway. Be a great new duck spot but I would rather have my upland back.
PS this is in no way ment to offend anyone who is dutch.
Northern Hunting Mom
02-21-2007, 01:10 PM
I would be more than ****ed about Bambi loving wanna-bes buyinh up prime farming and hunting land then refusing access to anybody.
PS: This is no intended to offend anyone who likes the Walt Disney movie Bambi.:rollin
The farmers out of Holland and the Hutterites do plow quite a bit. They simply have the mentality land is useless if theres no wheat growing. I've lost a few good spots as well. that one guy just north of Lethbridge when your heading towards Vulcan is the best example. He has about a 15 acre wetland and every year pumps it out reseeds, then loses it all when the spring rain hits. Never occurs to just give up and talk to DU about possibly compensating the land a bit. There were thousands of ducks on it the past 3 years. The bigger tractors/machinery and high land prices aren't helping the situation either. I'm still trying to convince my buddy to plant some wind breaks and quit spraying the little wetlands at his place, would be a great spot for some wildlife ( 1200+ acres can make for some great habitat). Used to have lots of pheasants and mulies but the caragan started dying out (probably planted in 1930's), no more cover. Now theres just huns, yotes, and the odd whitetail.
02-21-2007, 03:28 PM
I have to say that my biggest concern is land being bought up by people to use as their own personal game farms or whatever reason they buy the land and then deny access. It is entirely their right to do so and I would not ever want the government to step in and tell people what they "have" to do with their own land.
Just outlines the importance of keeping large tracts of public land open to hunting.
02-21-2007, 08:03 PM
Loss of all the traditional habitat like sloughs, hedge rows, wind breaks etc is a big one. Wonder if something similar to the CRP program in the USA would ever be put into place in Alberta and Canada?
02-22-2007, 10:44 PM
Guys, we can lose all of the land we want, but in a generation, if there is no one left that wants to hunt it, what's the issue? Loss of access means that we just have to work harder and travel further. Loss of another generation of hunters means our doom. My son is 5, I will teach him our way of life. If he chooses to embrace it than I have done my part to preserve our tradition. I will do my best to take his friends out and their dad's. I promise to do my best to introduce as many 'city-folk' to hunting and fishing. What else can I do? What else can we all do?
02-23-2007, 12:14 AM
My number one suggestion would be to make ensure non-resident hunters do not recieve more than 10 % of the allocations given per WMU per species hunted. This way we can minimize the effects of outfitters locking up land. In Montana its state law that non-residents are limited to 10 percent per species per zone, this was to protect resident hunter interest it's time we do the same.
For a link to some of the problems faced by resident Montana hunters here's a link, at least they recognize the problem.
In certain WMU such as 305 antlered mule deer resident hunters could gain as many as 25 more tags per year if non-residents were capped at 10 percent, obviously this is the most sensible approach to putting more resident hunters in the field.
By the way I don't support paying for access
02-23-2007, 10:49 PM
which is what huntmontana.com is all about. Gee I wonder what business brought about the creation of such a club hmmm. This should never happen up here in Alberta right, cause they've already got 15 to 23 percent of the antlered mule deer tags in South Western Alberta (just being sarcastic).
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